00:06:55 <Sgeo> I jokingly posted a screenshot of trying to install Oculus Home on Windows 3.1, and now people are making Windows 3.1 jokes that go over my head
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01:02:27 <HackEgo> copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president.
01:11:08 <oerjan> . o O ( no. wisdom must be kept free of trump jokes. )
01:11:33 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you play bridge?
01:11:38 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, mushrooms, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, cognac, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:12:01 <oerjan> nope, never tried. i don't don't have the patience for remembering what cards other people have...
01:12:03 <shachaf> `slwd tanebvention//s!prog!bridge, &!
01:12:05 <HackEgo> tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, mushrooms, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, cognac, bridge, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involv
01:12:25 <shachaf> The tanebvention list is too long.
01:12:48 <HackEgo> Cognac is named for its strong cognitive effects. Taneb invented it, then somehow managed to keep it off the illegal drugs list.
01:16:39 <oerjan> . o O ( it was a bridge too far. )
01:17:46 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep mush
01:17:53 <HackEgo> 11001:2017-06-06 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s/, sa/, mushrooms&/
01:19:24 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep fueue
01:19:36 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep Fueue
01:19:42 <HackEgo> 8817:2016-07-15 <shachäf> sled wisdom/tanebvention//s/the/Fueue, the/
01:21:12 <HackEgo> special relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:21:28 <HackEgo> tanebvention:Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, mushrooms, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, cognac, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:25:29 <HackEgo> 8823:2016-07-16 <int-̈e> le/rn tgtgtgtg/This gizmo talks gibberish too garbled to grasp.
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02:38:30 <HackEgo> If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it.
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04:01:46 * imode bangs head against wall.
04:07:00 <quintopia> that'll be $400 for labor and materials
04:25:28 * imode hands quintopia a half-opened jar of mayo.
04:44:55 <zzo38> Are you going to make up a new kind of astrological house system (such as a "photographic system", for example)?
04:46:53 <imode> https://ptpb.pw/sQH9 well, we're getting there.
04:49:15 <imode> maybe I could get closer to what I want by encoding explicit traversals.
04:59:08 <Sgeo> Did NoCD hacks exist in the Windows 3.1 days?
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05:56:43 <imode> Sgeo: plenty of tricks were used back in the win3.1 days.
05:57:01 <Sgeo> What's the easiest?
05:57:27 <imode> it completely depended on your application.
05:58:29 <Sgeo> I got a game working in DOSBox but it required mount -t cdrom
05:58:38 <Sgeo> And I'm not sure if I can just... do that in IA
05:58:48 <imode> want me to take a crack at it.
05:59:20 <imode> throw me the files.
05:59:21 <Sgeo> https://archive.org/details/stop-the-rock
05:59:52 <Sgeo> I got it to run in the emularity_win31 image by copying the install files while also having the CD mounted
06:00:04 <Sgeo> Ran the installer, the real installer choked but then just had it run ROCK31.EXE
06:00:25 <imode> hm, that is a predicament.
06:01:48 <imode> so does it actually check whether a CD is inserted.
06:01:56 <imode> does it check which one.
06:02:19 <imode> mount some dummy iso. use an arch linux one if you're desperate. :P
06:02:25 <imode> or a puppy linux one or something.
06:04:05 <Sgeo> Please insert your Stop the Rock! CD and try again
06:04:07 * imode ponders something.
06:04:20 <imode> why can't you just ship the ISO along with the game and then in the bat file, mount it from the c: drive.
06:04:27 <imode> if you can edit runapp.bat, that's trivial.
06:05:16 <Sgeo> I don't know if the mount command will be able to find the file. I don't know how the fake filesystem works.... wait, I have a thought
06:05:35 <imode> throw the ISO into the C:\ drive, it'll work.
06:05:45 <imode> dosbox iirc always resolves paths.
06:05:51 <Sgeo> Yeah, the real path will be /emulator/c/something I think
06:06:10 <imode> so just do mount -t whatever C:\foobar\whatever.iso
06:06:30 <imode> not sure what the command line options for mounting an iso.
06:06:51 <Sgeo> It won't be C:\foobar
06:06:57 <Sgeo> It will be /emulator/c/whatever.iso
06:07:20 <imode> you can use either. C:\ is just the extracted contents of your izp.
06:07:33 <imode> so if the contents of your zip contains the install CD...
06:07:41 <imode> in an ISO format... the mount command can find it.
06:08:03 <imode> in fact, give me a second, I'll test this.
06:08:07 <Sgeo> I think I'll also have to put the emularity image in C
06:08:25 <Sgeo> The installer needs to install quicktime, and does it into the Windows directory
06:08:31 <Sgeo> Unless it just needs quicktime in its path, hmm
06:10:47 <imode> yeah, so you can load the ISO directly from a mounted path like C:\
06:10:52 <imode> nothing with this unix path crap.
06:11:00 <imode> you do it via imgmount.
06:12:07 <imode> so if the path to the CD is C:\whatever.iso, just do imgmount e: "C:\whatever.iso" -t iso
06:12:13 <Sgeo> I think to save space I can use mount
06:12:18 <imode> now it's mounted on e:
06:13:38 <imode> I just tried it and I can view the ISO and such. not sure if it does anything more clever than that, but you can probably designate e: as your CD drive via another mount command.
06:32:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52563&oldid=52559 * LyricLy * (+76)
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10:23:53 <HackEgo> 242) <fungot> elliott: there go my minutes of research!! \ 613) * oerjan concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness
10:24:48 <HackEgo> 1/1:735) <olsner> they call finnish human-readable?
10:24:50 <HackEgo> 744) <oklopol> Gregor: i watched the first episode of MLP [...] <oklopol> Gregor: it wasn't bad, but there was very little sex and violence
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11:17:20 <shachaf> Oh, I get it. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html meant "intelligence" in the other sense of the word.
11:18:06 <HackEgo> 753) <olsner> This quote is boring
11:18:11 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't like that behavior.
11:18:49 <shachaf> Does vampire Durkon speak with a grave accent?
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12:11:41 <shachaf> newsham: Do you understand non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs? Do you know what makes them tricky?
12:38:28 <int-e> . o O ( who'd have thought that a crazy recurrence like a(n+1,k) = (k-1)*a(n,k-1) + 2*k*a(n,k) + (k+1)*a(n,k+1); a(0,1) = 1, a(0,k) = 0 otherwise would have a nice solution: a(n,k) = n! * C(n+1,k) )
12:41:17 <int-e> though that gives a(0,0) = 1, but the rest is correct.
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13:32:22 <wob_jonas> "<shachaf> newsham: Do you understand non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs? Do you know what makes them tricky?" replay attacks would be my guess
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15:35:32 <wob_jonas> This electric stove and oven is great at cooking food, but the interface is horrible. The built-in digital timer has five buttons but such a stupid interface that I genuinely couldn't figure out how to work it without reading the manual twice.
15:36:36 <wob_jonas> The buttons are small, so you can't operate them in oven mittens (gloves). The display for the timer is leds, so it's impossible to read when sunlight is glaring in from the window. They could just make it an LCD display without backlight, because almost nobody cooks in the dark.
15:37:10 <wob_jonas> And the plastic knobs for the stove and oven, they're really hard to keep clean.
15:37:26 <wob_jonas> (So is the door of the oven, but that'd be hard to fix.)
15:38:41 <wob_jonas> Mind you, it's probably not the worst interface I've ever seen. My brother has an electric stove with no oven built in, and it's operated by touch buttons that are in the same plane as the stove and the kitchen desk, so you can press them accidentally too easy by
15:39:01 <wob_jonas> trying to use the stove top as storage place when it's not in use.
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16:14:21 <zzo38> In the house where I am we have a stove with six buttons; one is for the time of day, one is for a timer, and one is for setting the temperature of the oven, but I do not know what the other three buttons are for.
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16:30:16 <wob_jonas> Canon is distributing user manual for their product as a self-extracting zip archive. What are they even thinking?
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16:30:59 <wob_jonas> zzo38: one button for setting the temperature? does it cycle through temperatures and you have to be careful how many times you press it to turn it off? or is it a turnable knob?
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16:33:55 <wob_jonas> I mean, all versions of windows since windows 98 have a zip extractor built into explorer, there are third party zip extractor programs available too, and I doubt they have drivers for their scanner for that old versions of windows.
16:34:24 <wob_jonas> Ok, I admit this is a type of scanner that's at least six years old, not exactly state of art thing, but still.
16:36:18 <wob_jonas> At least the manual did answer my question though.
16:44:44 <wob_jonas> do we have a command here that looks up pokemon?
16:45:01 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pokemon: not found
16:45:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pokedex: not found
16:45:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pokédex: not found
16:45:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pokémon: not found
16:48:14 <zzo38> wob_jonas: There is a separate dial that you can turn to control the value of the function you have selected; the buttons only select the function.
16:49:16 <zzo38> Any function is cancelled by pushing that button twice in quick succession.
16:50:37 <wob_jonas> Oh, also the oven has a light that shows when the oven is still heating, and has a buzzer for timed alarms, but it doesn't have a way to ring the buzzer when the oven has reached the required temperature, you just have to watch the light for that.
16:53:40 <zzo38> I had once also oven that didn't make the noise when the temperature is reached but this one (that I just described) does have the noise for that.
16:59:09 <wob_jonas> No buzzer for reaching the temperature alone doesn't bother me. I remember back when gas ovens not only didn't have electronic timers, but also had no electric power at all, so not only did you have to light the gas stove with a match, you also had to do some magic with a long match and a small hole to light the oven.
17:00:28 <wob_jonas> It's the combination where it already has a (presumably non-electronic) heat sensor, an indicator light for that sensor, a microcontroller and buttons for the timer, and a buzzer, but they didn't bother to connect the heat sensor indicator output to the microcontroller.
17:03:29 <wob_jonas> I also find it normal when you have to light a modern gas stove with matches (or a gas lighter with long neck), because stove spark plugs are apparently abused so much by the food that accidentally gets on them that they always have a shorter life time than the stove.
17:04:09 <wob_jonas> This is opposed to the sparker in an oven or water boiler or convection heater, which are in hard to reach places and so live for long enough.
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18:45:38 <zzo38> I have read that header fields starting with "X-" is now deprecated, but I think that should not always be avoided; you should still use "X-" in cases where the header will never be standardized perhaps because it is specified to one specific program.
18:49:39 <zzo38> Will you add my "MIXPC" implementation into esolang wiki once I make it available? Once is added, will also be added any description of the nonstandard I/O devices that it implements (music, random number generator, real time clock, and lights)?
18:50:42 <wob_jonas> zzo38: it's a wiki, you can just add it yourself. just make it clear which extensions don't come from Knuth.
18:51:30 <wob_jonas> lights? there's already a traffic light extension, and presumably even a standard MIX machine will have a front panel with blinking lights showing some of the processor state.
18:51:58 <wob_jonas> and there's a real time clock extension too in the book
18:52:54 <zzo38> In which book and which section?
18:53:05 <zzo38> (I do know where the traffic lights are described, but not the clock)
18:53:27 <zzo38> And yes if I add into the wiki I will certainly make it clear which extensions are non-standard of course
18:53:36 <wob_jonas> the clock is described in the machine with the system memory protection and interrupt. let me look up where exactly.
18:55:18 <zzo38> MIXPC does have the front panel with the processor state too (although you can hide it if you wish, which I put in for purpose of computer games with hidden information, but it also causes it to execute much faster because it does not need to redraw the processor state after each instruction).
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18:56:12 <wob_jonas> ch 1.4.4 exercise 18, memory location -10 is real time clock, automatically decreases by 1 every 1000 clock cycles, raises interrupt when becomes zero
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18:58:28 <zzo38> OK, although my implementation in MIXPC is different; it is a I/O device and accesses the current time of day, with hours, minutes, and seconds, in separate bytes.
18:58:35 <zzo38> (It has a record size of 1)
19:00:21 <wob_jonas> only the hours, minutes, and seconds? nothing sub-second or date?
19:02:55 <zzo38> Yes only hours, minutes, and seconds. (Although if I increase the record size to 2 then I can also include date)
19:04:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52564&oldid=49840 * Conor O'Brien * (+41)
19:04:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien/Essays]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52565 * Conor O'Brien * (+70) Created page with "Index of "essays" pertaining to esolangs are listed here. (none yet.)"
19:05:32 <wob_jonas> do you have any useful programs for this MIX machine? useful in the wide sense that is, so it might include ports of games or something
19:06:06 <zzo38> You can still simulate the traffic light program on MIXPC though, since it will (by default) display the contents of the rX register, and you can push O to toggle the overflow flag (which is also displayed). However, it just runs as fast as it does and doesn't deal with time, so you may want to modify the traffic light program to use the clock device for timing in this case.
19:06:26 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Currently, no, although you are free to write some; all standard stuff works other than floating-point and paper tape.
19:06:53 <wob_jonas> does that mean you implement the shift, multiply, divide, and compare instructions now?
19:07:26 <zzo38> Yes, it does implement those now.
19:07:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52566&oldid=52564 * Conor O'Brien * (+3) eh forgot ==
19:07:45 <zzo38> (And I fixed the other bugs too, including some that you didn't mention)
19:08:06 <wob_jonas> have you tested with some of the larger example programs from volumes 1 to 3?
19:08:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien/Essays]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52567&oldid=52565 * Conor O'Brien * (+70)
19:08:39 <wob_jonas> (you might need to get an assembler for that)
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19:09:51 <zzo38> Currently I have volumes 1 and 2 and they are due on August 2, but yes that would be a good idea I suppose. (But anyone with DOS, a DOS emulator, or a way to compile the BASIC program for other computers, will be able to test that)
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19:10:31 <zzo38> (I will release the .EXE file too so that you do not need the compiler if you do not wish to modify the program, but also the source file)
19:12:19 <zzo38> Loading the program works by loading a card deck in the card reader (the card deck file has one card per line), and then return to the main screen and push G to read the first card at address 0 and start executing from address 0.
19:13:21 <zzo38> (This is the same as the loading mechanism mentioned in the book.)
19:13:45 <wob_jonas> zzo38: but how do you assemble the program? have you written an assembler, or do I have to use one written by someone else? is the format of how you represent cards and tapes and disk in DOS flies documented?
19:15:12 <zzo38> I have not (yet) written an assembler. I might do so though, maybe. It does document the format of cards and tapes and disk (the document is actually incomplete, which is why I have not released the program yet, but by Thursday it should be complete.)
19:15:42 <wob_jonas> what the heck? how is the side of this sign distorted nonlinearly on this photo? this lens is of a medium angle and I don't think it has a nonlinear distortion, and the sign is stone so it can't be curved
19:16:18 <wob_jonas> but there seems to be like five pixels of curvature in the right hand side of the plaque
19:17:07 <zzo38> I just described the file format it uses for card decks, so you should be able to make card decks in such file format (or convert from other formats) even now if you want to do.
19:19:06 <wob_jonas> great. the card is the most important, but will you also describe the format for the other IO devices?
19:19:34 <wob_jonas> and can I see that description for the cards?
19:20:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Conor O'Brien * uploaded "[[File:Debuggerex.png]]": An example of a brainfuck debugger.
19:21:31 <zzo38> I do not have it on this computer yet (on Thursday I will show you). The magnetic tape and disk just use the internal format of the program, which is six bytes per MIX word for fields 0 to 5, the sign (field 0) is 0 for positive and 1 for negative.
19:22:49 <zzo38> Printer uses the same format as cards but the width is more. (If you try to read a file written for printer output by the card reader, you will get only the first 80 columns and the rest will be ignored.)
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19:24:00 <zzo38> When specifying the filename for the printer, you may specify "LPT1:" to use a printer connected to your computer.
19:24:46 <zzo38> Typewriter is interactive only and does not use files.
19:26:17 <wob_jonas> ok, but how are the characters represented on the cards?
19:26:40 <zzo38> (With a carriage return and line feed after each card)
19:26:52 <wob_jonas> wait, character set reminds me, there was something strange...
19:27:59 <zzo38> A column with positions 11 and 0 punched ("negative zero") should be represented as character code 233.
19:30:07 <zzo38> (You may need this if you are using the loader program described in the book. However, you are not limited to that loader program; you can use whatever loader program you want.)
19:30:13 <wob_jonas> so delta is character code 233? ok
19:30:40 <zzo38> Actually it represents a theta; there is no uppercase delta in the PC character set.
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19:36:42 <zzo38> (Also, for card input, any line that does not have enough columns will still be read; the rest of the columns are considered to be spaces.)
19:43:11 <zzo38> (Theta also makes some sense because it can resemble theta by overstriking a minus sign with zero; according to https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Blue-punch-card-front-horiz.png it is even matching the Hollerith character code for minus sign and for zero.)
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20:15:05 <wob_jonas> ARGH! I started gimp, and it threw up a ton of message boxes in quick succession, apparently in an infinite loop.
20:16:04 <zzo38> Have you written a assembler for MIX programs?
20:16:59 <wob_jonas> no, I haven't. I think other people have. I think even Knuth has written one, though possibly not an assembler that runs on MIX itself
20:19:23 <zzo38> Do you know what output formats are used?
20:23:11 <wob_jonas> The output format for the assembler should be the loader input
20:23:22 <wob_jonas> the input format is MIXAL, which is described in vol 1
20:23:41 <zzo38> Yes I know the input is MIXAL
20:23:42 <wob_jonas> oh, do you mean what the non-MIX assemblers output?
20:24:00 <zzo38> I do mean what files the non-MIX implementations of MIXAL will output
20:24:18 <zzo38> But to use with MIXPC, the output also needs to include the loader card(s), otherwise it won't work.
20:25:37 <shachaf> wob_jonas: How do you mean?
20:26:59 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I guess "zero-knowledge" by itself doesn't imply that, but sometimes you want a proof that proves that you know something (like a private key) but without giving a way for others to give the same proof too.
20:27:09 <wob_jonas> there are interactive zero-knowledge proofs with that property
20:28:39 <wob_jonas> a fun one is described in Wettl Ferenc's chapter in ed. Hraskó András: ''Új matematikai mozaik'', a popular maths book which introduces many people here to zero-knowledge proofs
20:28:51 <wob_jonas> it introduces you to other maths stuff as well
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21:36:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien/Essays/Programming in Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52569 * Conor O'Brien * (+10284) Created page with "== Introduction == Brainfuck is a Turing tarpit, meaning it has few commands, but maintains status of "Turing complete", that is, being able to compute anything computable by..."
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22:01:58 <HackEgo> tuu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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23:02:09 <HackEgo> tmp//tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE: It interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check; files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command.
23:02:44 <HackEgo> sgeo//Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex, thus killing it within a month. He was Doctor Mengele in his previous life, as evidenced by his norn experiments.
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23:56:29 <Sgeo> "Long-held predictions about the nature of
23:56:29 <Sgeo> particles and gravity have been proven startlingly
23:56:29 <Sgeo> correct by experiment, which sucks."
23:56:32 <wob_jonas> What text layout engine does firefox on debian use?
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