←2018-01 2018-02 2018-03→ ↑2018 ↑all
2018-02-01
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01:15:30 <oerjan> @messages-cloudy
01:15:30 <lambdabot> int-e said 13h 24m 35s ago: Oh GG... could it be love?
01:15:50 <oerjan> @ask int-e wat.
01:15:50 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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01:25:54 <boily> . o O ( is there such a thing as a loud massage? )
01:41:09 <oerjan> helloily. obviously.
01:41:17 <shachaf> boily: thoily
01:41:27 <shachaf> Though I think this YSAC was lacking.
01:42:16 <oerjan> my mom had an electric massager, that did make some noise.
01:42:57 <oerjan> . o O ( no, it was really for massaging. stop your filthy thinking. )
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01:54:11 <boily> helloochaf! it had pepper pepper pepper.
02:08:07 <esowiki> [[Mayor Indbur]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53934 * Camto * (+2401) Actually create the page
02:11:47 <esowiki> [[Mayor Indbur]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53935&oldid=53934 * Camto * (+70) Categories are cool.
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02:13:49 <esowiki> [[Mayor Indbur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53936&oldid=53935 * Camto * (-8)
02:15:02 <esowiki> [[Mayor Indbur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53937&oldid=53936 * Camto * (-1) whoops
02:25:41 <esowiki> [[User:Camto]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53938 * Camto * (+260) My page.
02:28:27 <boily> `5 w
02:28:32 <HackEgo> 1/2:turing//Turing is what you are doing when you Tur. \ coffee//Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the soul ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic. \ mad//This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate. \ astronomy//Astronomy is the s
02:28:34 <boily> `n
02:28:35 <HackEgo> 2/2:tudy of stars, such as Julia Child and Gordon Ramsay, typically through long-distance viewing devices. Despite the name, it does not involve the study of the astrointestinal tract. \ friend//friend is a portmanteau of fritter and rend
02:29:00 <esowiki> [[User:Camto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53939&oldid=53938 * Camto * (+103) github link
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11:47:44 <int-e> @tell oerjan Dupree and Gil.
11:47:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
11:49:51 <boily> int-ello. eh?
11:51:55 <int-e> boily: I did ask whether it could be love.
11:52:56 <boily> wasn't Gil supposed to Agatha? I haven't GG in quite a while...
11:54:35 <int-e> boily: look at the last panel of the most recent GG
11:54:42 <int-e> that's all I have
11:55:25 <boily> oh.
12:02:27 <int-e> But it's so uncharacteristic for Dupree to show any kind of concern at all that I'm wondering.
12:08:11 <Taneb> I think she holds a lot of affection for Gil, not sure if it's romantic love
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19:24:51 <zseri> hi
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19:28:56 <zseri> hi again
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21:14:05 <zseri> bye
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22:57:44 <boily> @massages-loud
22:57:45 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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23:58:06 <Sgeo> A library I wrote was mentioned in some paper about proving libraries safe
23:58:52 <Sgeo> https://gitlab.mpi-sws.org/FP/LambdaRust-coq/tree/eec05e0aa61e2e8346ab380d0930bbaca4cc1a31
2018-02-02
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00:50:00 <oerjan> @messages-found
00:50:00 <lambdabot> int-e said 13h 2m 16s ago: Dupree and Gil.
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00:57:31 <david_werecat> !zjoust MV http://www.text-share.com/view/raw/c66947a6
00:57:31 <zemhill_> david_werecat.MV: points 14.10, score 36.65, rank 3/47
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03:00:03 <zzo38> Hello
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04:11:15 <zzo38> I read a book in library written by both Chopra and Mlodinow. I found a review, which look good to me, although the review misspelled Mlodinow's name in the title (the text of the review does not have the same error). The review says, they ask: what deep truth does science tell us about the world? I agree what the reviewer wrote, which is that, it doesn't. I agree with Laplace.
04:11:54 <zzo38> As the reviewer wrote: The scientific response to this metaphysics is what Laplace said, it is, "I have no need of that hypothesis."
04:15:21 <zzo38> I agree when Mlodinow says, we are the biological machine governed by the same laws that govern Pluto. But, that isn't a "deep truth" about anything, and isn't the metaphysical question. Metaphysics is the philosophical question, and it is different. It helps to not be confused between metaphysics and science, I think. Do you think?
04:17:54 <zzo38> (But, I don't know if you have any interest in philosophy or not; well, I do, and I have a book "There are two errors in the the title of this book" about philosophy. One thing they say is that, you can write a serious philosophical book consisting entirely of jokes, and also that you can write a serious philosophical book consisting entirely of questions (without answers). That book isn't those things, though.)
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04:25:46 <zzo38> (Although it look to me a lot of what Chopra wrote is confused, still there are a few good points. Especially if you are writing a debate, there are going to be some points on both sides.)
04:35:13 <shachaf> `5 w
04:35:18 <HackEgo> 1/1:we//We are the champions. \ dew//In the Famous Mountains of York, Taneb makes dew. \ jit//JIT is just in time. \ despair//Despair is but the first step towards eternal damnation. \ twnh//twnh is dubious hambiguitous help that will or will not be help. It is provided by a toe with no hair.
04:45:37 <zemhill_> david_werecat.MV: points 14.90, score 38.01, rank 3/47 (--)
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06:53:39 <zzo38> Do you know anything about how to read the correct extents from an embroidery file? What I have currently, the picture is off centre and is cut off.
06:54:25 <zzo38> (This suggests I am starting at the wrong coordinates, but I do not know how to determine the correct starting coordinates.)
07:13:55 <zzo38> (Actually, I found some mistakes; I can try again now)
07:15:35 <zzo38> Now I got the positioning correct, although the colours are now wrong.
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08:20:42 <zzo38> The shape is correct now, but the colours are wrong. I found two different lists of colours, and neither seems to match the expected colours. I get blue where red is expected, orange where blue is expected, and purple where yellow is expected; green is correct, though. I checked the thread numbers and they seem to specify these wrong colours. Do you know what is wrong? (The channels are in the correct order; I checked.)
08:31:13 <zzo38> (The problem may be the files I downloaded at first are defective; I tried other files, and they have the correct colours.)
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09:57:58 <int-e> Have I done this before? Does ^(.*[^ab].*|.*((aa|bb)....................b|(ab|ba)....................a).*|b?(bb)?(bbbb)?(bbbbbbbb)?(bbbbbb)?(b?|a.*)|.*ab?(bb)?(bbbb)?(bbbbbbbb)?(bbbbbb)?)$ accept all possible strings (i.e., the same as ^.*$)?
09:59:25 <shachaf> Is this produced as a complement or something like that?
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11:02:16 <int-e> shachaf: it's a complement of something, yes.
11:03:32 <int-e> (this isn't as facetious as it probably sounds... thinking about the complement is the right way to make sense of the r.e.)
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11:43:56 <boily> `5 w
11:44:02 <HackEgo> 1/2:snap//Snap is a simple web development framework for unix systems, written in the Haskell programming language. Snap has a high level of test coverage and is well-documented. \ oya yakuman//We don't know what an oya yakuman is, but based on boily's reaction, it must be quite painful. \ kmc//kmc did not run the International Devious Code C
11:44:03 <boily> `n
11:44:04 <HackEgo> 2/2:ontest of 2013. \ portugoose//Peça ganso assado com natas. \ ci//The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
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13:29:14 <wob_jonas> wait, just how many groups are there who have invented Taneb?
13:29:28 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -i 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
13:29:39 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/8: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/biweekly: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ wisdom/bbc:The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, vill
13:29:58 <wob_jonas> yeah yeah, shut up
13:30:10 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
13:30:11 <HackEgo> wisdom/bbc:The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, villages in Norway, and inventors of all things. Taneb invented it. \ wisdom/ci:The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. \ w
13:30:33 <wob_jonas> `2 ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
13:30:34 <HackEgo> 2/1:
13:30:51 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+2
13:30:52 <HackEgo> wisdom/ci:The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. \ wisdom/deniability:Deniability was not invented by Taneb. \ wisdom/fundamental theorem of taneb:The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing
13:31:02 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+4
13:31:04 <HackEgo> wisdom/fundamental theorem of taneb:The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing not involving sex, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing not involving sex that Taneb did not invent. \ wisdo
13:31:21 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+5
13:31:23 <HackEgo> wisdom/go:Go is a common irregular verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes catching monsters in the strategic territories of East Asia. \ wisdom/grace period:The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma. \ wisdom/lambek's lemma:Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lamb
13:31:36 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+7
13:31:37 <HackEgo> wisdom/lambek's lemma:Lambek's Lemma, invented by Joachim "Taneb" Lambek, states that initial algebras have inverses. It can be proved with as few as five arrows. \ wisdom/nih:NIH was /not/ invented by Taneb. \ wisdom/noooooooodle:Noooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. \ w
13:31:46 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+9
13:31:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/nooooooooodle:Nooooooooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. \ wisdom/progres:Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. \ wisdom/real:The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. \ wisdom/taneb:Taneb is not elliott
13:31:58 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+12
13:32:00 <HackEgo> wisdom/taneb:Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventi
13:32:09 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+13
13:32:11 <HackEgo> wisdom/tetris:Tetris is where Soviet Russia was invented. Taneb was not present although Triangle and Robert were. \ wisdom/the reals:The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. \ wisdom/the universe:The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet.
13:32:41 <wob_jonas> ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/* | tail -n+16
13:32:43 <HackEgo> No output.
13:32:52 <wob_jonas> so only the CI
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15:13:10 <zseri> hi
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16:53:58 <esowiki> [[User:Mr. Xcoder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53940&oldid=52840 * Mr. Xcoder * (+254) Added more relevant information about myself
16:55:17 <esowiki> [[User:Mr. Xcoder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53941&oldid=53940 * Mr. Xcoder * (+24)
16:55:54 <esowiki> [[User:Mr. Xcoder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53942&oldid=53941 * Mr. Xcoder * (+5)
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17:35:23 <zseri__> https://github.com/zserik/zsdbp5/commit/5af8d5f2240ef1187639fc1e8b9721148c41a5b1
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19:17:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mdvarga * New user account
19:21:17 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53943&oldid=53899 * Mdvarga * (+289) /* Introductions */
19:22:45 <esowiki> [[THRAT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53944&oldid=50026 * Mdvarga * (-3) Updated my name. I used to go by Matthew in early 2000s but have since embraced using my actual Hungarian name: Mate (which translates to Matthew).
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20:22:26 <mroman> blsq ) begin lisp (?+ 3 2) end lisp
20:22:27 <mroman> 5
20:24:14 <mroman> muahahah!
20:27:12 <mroman> although try parsing in parsec is kinda sucky
20:27:13 <mroman> because
20:27:20 <mroman> if there's a syntax error in (try parseLisp)
20:27:22 <mroman> it won't show it
20:27:27 <mroman> but then it tries to parse something else
20:27:28 <mroman> and
20:27:36 <mroman> pretty much every bullshit is valid in burlesque :D
20:31:10 <mroman> wasn't there a quote
20:31:11 <mroman> `quote
20:31:12 <HackEgo> 978) <elliott> prediction: kmc never comes back * kmc has joined #esoteric
20:31:16 <mroman> `quote moo
20:31:17 <HackEgo> 26) <zzo38> I am not on the moon. \ 204) <Phantom_Hoover> [...] reyouthismootherate [...] \ 439) <Phantom_Hoover> OK, Taneb's been taken by a mood and he needs raw emeralds. <Phantom_Hoover> It's been fun knowing him. \ 454) <zzo38> What is miff-muffered moof? <itidus20> that's a tough question \ 513) <elliott> When the moon hits your eye like a
20:31:22 <mroman> `quote burlesque
20:31:23 <HackEgo> 1216) <mroman_> piece of cake doing this stuff in Burlesque :P [19 lines later] <mroman_> I hate Burlesque :(
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20:34:01 <wob_jonas> mroman: how does that syntax even work?
20:34:30 <wob_jonas> the begin lisp thing
20:34:37 <wob_jonas> that makes no sense
20:35:48 <wob_jonas> blsq) 10rn
20:36:03 <wob_jonas> blsq: 10rn
20:36:13 <wob_jonas> blsq ) 11 rn
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20:42:48 <mroman> wob_jonas: there's no blsq bot here
20:42:59 <wob_jonas> mroman: yeah, I noticed
20:43:03 <wob_jonas> still, that's a strange syntax
20:43:12 <mroman> how does it work?
20:43:15 <mroman> why wouldn't it work?
20:43:18 <wob_jonas> is "be" a command that does that magic?
20:43:22 <mroman> no
20:43:26 <wob_jonas> or is half of that just unnecessary?\
20:44:05 <mroman> begin lisp (be)gin 2 2 end lisp
20:44:09 <mroman> ^- this is valid blsq code
20:44:21 <mroman> it parses as {be gi n li sp (be) gi n 2 2 en d li sp}
20:44:38 <mroman> burlesque has a lot of "trial and error" parsing
20:44:51 <mroman> if the stuff between begin lisp ... end lisp isn't valid lisp
20:44:54 <mroman> it will parse it as regular syntax
20:45:17 <wob_jonas> right, but what does the begin lisp part do? is it just a long thing that happens to be a nop?
20:45:32 <mroman> "begin lisp" doesn't do anything... it's syntax.
20:45:41 <mroman> it's not a command or anything.
20:45:47 <mroman> it's "grammar"/syntax
20:46:18 <mroman> the parser will parse stuff between begin lisp ... end lisp differently
20:47:04 <mroman> be could still be a command
20:48:10 <mroman> blsq ) %be=1 %gi=1 %n.={?+} begin.
20:48:10 <mroman> 2
20:49:08 <mroman> the thing is
20:49:17 <mroman> "begin " isn't valid
20:49:31 <mroman> because it would parse as "be gi" and then the 'n' is missing another character
20:49:39 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Rascus * New user account
20:49:57 <mroman> so "begin " isn't valid in regular syntax
20:51:11 <wob_jonas> blsq ) begin haskell [8..14] >>= \x -> if odd x then { take (repeat x) (x - 7) } else { [] } end haskell begin perl @p=(0,1); push@p,2*$p[-2]+$p[-1] for 2..11;\@p end perl ++
20:51:42 <wob_jonas> mroman: so what you're saying is that begin lisp is special syntax for something, but in some case the parser backtracks and falls back to trying to interpret it as not special syntax?
20:51:50 <mroman> exactly.
20:51:51 <wob_jonas> but... WHY? why would you do that to a language?
20:52:03 <wob_jonas> and what does begin lisp actually do when it parses correctly?
20:52:15 <mroman> oh wait.
20:52:17 <mroman> "n " is valid
20:52:18 <mroman> wtf
20:52:46 <mroman> oh
20:52:46 <mroman> right
20:52:48 <mroman> :D
20:52:49 <wob_jonas> you mean you don't know all the builtins by heart?
20:52:58 <mroman> this is burlesque
20:53:05 <mroman> do you have any idea how much stuff there is in it?
20:53:17 <wob_jonas> yeah, I know
20:53:18 <mroman> well either way
20:53:20 <mroman> yes
20:53:25 <wob_jonas> it would be surprising if you remembered it all
20:53:30 <mroman> if it sees a "b" it will try to parse a lisp stuff
20:53:32 <mroman> and then backtrack
20:53:44 <mroman> or however parsec's "try" works
20:53:49 <mroman> maybe it looks forward more than one character
20:53:52 <wob_jonas> I forget what half of the functions I write do in smaller projects too
20:54:15 <wob_jonas> ok, but what is lisp stuff in this case?
20:54:23 <mroman> there are also more than two character commands now
20:54:49 <wob_jonas> what? were you in danger of running out of two character combos?
20:54:55 <mroman> blsq ) ``abcde
20:54:56 <mroman> ERROR: Unknown command: (abcde)!
20:55:20 <mroman> no
20:55:30 <mroman> but it's some internal trickery to deal with user defined commands
20:55:35 <mroman> and user defined commands may be longer than that.
20:55:43 <mroman> also some trickery for the fancy mode
20:55:47 <mroman> there's fancy mode and lisp mode now
20:56:49 <mroman> blsq ) fancy def add: \?+ end add(1,2) end
20:56:49 <mroman> 3
20:57:16 <wob_jonas> um
20:57:29 <wob_jonas> well that sounds like a language that is more esoteric than needs to be for a golf language
20:57:36 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53945&oldid=53943 * Rascus * (+157) /* Introductions */
20:57:39 <esowiki> [[Tome]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53946&oldid=46411 * Rascus * (+85) Added link to GitHub repository
20:57:52 <mroman> burlesque isn't a golf language
20:58:46 <wob_jonas> what
20:58:53 <mroman> I didn't write it for that purpose at least.
20:58:59 <mroman> not initially
20:59:51 <mroman> it was more as a homework solving tool
21:00:01 <mroman> that's why it also can do poisson distributions and chi squared tests and shit
21:00:34 <wob_jonas> ok
21:01:25 <mroman> but it proved to be fun for golfing too
21:01:35 <mroman> so some stuff was added to make programs shorter
21:01:44 <mroman> like one character swap command
21:02:31 <mroman> but then I decided to just add as much stuff as possible
21:02:50 <mroman> because yes
21:02:59 <mroman> I didn't want it to become one of those just golfing languages
21:03:14 <wob_jonas> Is there a hello-world builtin?
21:03:24 <mroman> there was Golfscript, Flogscript, Burlesque and then a few years ago there are hundreds of golfing languages now
21:03:27 <mroman> no, there isn't.
21:03:50 <mroman> such a builtin wouldn't have any useful purpose
21:03:57 <wob_jonas> It would, for golf
21:04:03 <wob_jonas> that might show it's not a golf language
21:04:21 <mroman> well... even if you make golf language
21:04:28 <mroman> adding a hw builtin is just plain stupid
21:04:41 <mroman> you waste one character to solve ONE problem
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21:04:51 <mroman> you're better of making it something usefol that can solve MANY problems shorter
21:05:00 <mroman> *useful
21:05:27 <wob_jonas> I don't think it is. There are multiple golf exercises that involve some variation of hello world. Obviously you'd want a somewhat versatile command, not a one-character command that prints "hello world" and exits, but one that can return variations of that string, and it needn't be one character.
21:06:02 <mroman> meh. those would be boring challenges anyway
21:06:49 <mroman> still stupid imo :D
21:07:20 <mroman> the whole point of golfing isn't to have the shortest program in some language
21:07:25 <mroman> it's the competition.
21:07:49 <mroman> where's the satisfaction?
21:08:05 <mroman> there's a challenge to print "HELLO, WORLD!" and you have a hw builtin that takes an argument
21:08:18 <mroman> and 9hw prints "HELLO, WORLD!" 0hw print "Hello, world!" etc.
21:08:36 <mroman> that's just plain boring.
21:09:20 <mroman> the fun in golfing was to come up with crazy ideas like clock (he's a genius golfer) to solve a problem
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21:24:18 <wob_jonas> that's not the only way you can enjoy golf, but sure
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21:41:55 <zseri__> https://travis-ci.org/zserik
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23:05:53 <boily> `5 w
23:05:59 <HackEgo> 1/2:sweden//Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize. \ cooperate//"Cooperate" is a common misspelling of "cōöperāte". \ holy water//Holy water is water made by boiling the hell out of Spain. \ `help//`help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a
23:06:00 <boily> `n
23:06:01 <HackEgo> 2/2:specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom. \ of//Of this incident we shall never speak again.
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23:21:32 <zzo38> I have worked more writing ZPXDB today. I intend to use it as the format for two of the four files for Free Hero Mesh (the level file and the solution file; the other two files are the class definition file (which is a text file), and the class binary file (which is a Hamster archive)). (Unlike Hero Mesh, my plan is Free Hero Mesh splits the puzzle set into these four files instead of just one.)
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2018-02-03
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01:11:54 <zzo38> You can tell me if you have other ideas about Free Hero Mesh, that I can then consider, when programming it. (I already have many ideas, including to add many new commands, as well as to remove some existing commands (they are converted into others when converting a .MB file); new commands may include: GetInventory, MaxInventory, PreCreate, PostCreate, Assassinate, InternalMove, etc)
01:14:31 <zzo38> (As well as a MoveSelf command, which exists only because of a bug in the original Hero Mesh, having to do with setting Inertia)
01:34:49 <oerjan> huh, i forgot to log out
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01:57:32 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
01:58:54 <oerjan> evenily.
02:04:20 <shachaf> mniip: Do you like _Topology via Logic_?
02:04:54 <mniip> ugh
02:05:00 <mniip> I already have too many things on my reading list
02:05:09 <oerjan> `1 ``` egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
02:05:10 <HackEgo> 1/1:/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 6: syntax error: unexpected end of file
02:05:11 <shachaf> but this book is the best
02:05:16 <mniip> this will take years
02:05:20 <shachaf> "It is this, it is this that oppresses my soul, / When I think of my uncle’s last words: / And my heart is like nothing so much as a bowl / Brimming over with quivering curds!
02:05:33 <oerjan> hm something's wrong there.
02:05:42 <oerjan> `1 egrep -si 'invent.*taneb' wisdom/*
02:05:42 <shachaf> "It is this, it is this—" "We have had that before!" The Bellman indignantly said. And the Baker replied "Let me say it once more. It is this, it is this that I dread!"
02:05:44 <HackEgo> 1/7:wisdom/bbc:The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, villages in Norway, and inventors of all things. Taneb invented it. \ wisdom/ci:The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with webcomics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb.
02:05:46 <shachaf> int-e is the bellman?!
02:05:56 <oerjan> aha.
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02:06:46 <mniip> shachaf, it went like this so far
02:07:14 <mniip> wtf does delta-A mean in elementary energy and why isn't it dA?
02:07:21 <mniip> wtf is an exterior derivative?
02:07:28 <mniip> wtf is differential form calculus?
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02:07:33 <mniip> wtf is a manifold?
02:07:39 <shachaf> hi mniip
02:07:47 <mniip> wtf is a second countable set?
02:07:48 <shachaf> These are things we've talked about in this channel a lot for some reason?
02:07:49 <mniip> er
02:07:51 <mniip> wtf is a second countable space?
02:08:47 <mniip> ?
02:08:58 * oerjan has forgotten that.
02:09:31 <shachaf> What's this elementary energy thing?
02:10:32 <mniip> delta A = F delta r
02:10:42 <mniip> infinitesimal work is force times infinitesimal displacement
02:11:19 <mniip> (so far to me it only made sense as an integral of second kind over a curve)
02:11:35 <shachaf> mniip: _Topology via Logic_ is the book that made some of these topology things intuitive to my CS-twisted mind
02:12:18 <mniip> but then in say EM we have stuff like
02:12:29 <mniip> delta A = 1/8pi E dD
02:13:06 <mniip> is this an integral of second kind over a curve in a hilbert space? I have no idea
02:13:28 <shachaf> Do you have a link with more context? I don't know much physics.
02:13:59 <mniip> afraid not
02:14:45 <shachaf> Do you like Chu spaces?
02:14:58 <shachaf> Wait, maybe int-e is the Baker.
02:15:02 <shachaf> Because he dreads this.
02:17:01 <mniip> huh
02:17:11 <mniip> they don't call it elementary work/energy in english it seems
02:19:20 <mniip> just "small amount of work"
02:22:29 <shachaf> mniip: you should learn all about differential geometry and then teach me twh
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02:26:09 <mniip> shachaf, looks like the book is all about non-hausdorff spaces
02:26:14 <shachaf> Yep.
02:26:15 <mniip> while uh
02:26:29 <shachaf> hausdorff spaces are overrated imo
02:26:49 <mniip> manifolds are all hausdorff
02:27:19 <shachaf> It's not as if the book is about spaces that are specifically not Hausdorff. They just aren't the main examples.
02:27:39 <mniip> I'm intersted in the calculus side of topology right now
02:27:48 <mniip> not CS/AT/HoTT
02:27:51 <shachaf> OK.
02:28:04 <mniip> since I came there from, uhh, manifolds
02:28:08 <shachaf> Even so, maybe?
02:28:14 <shachaf> Or maybe not. Whatever.
02:32:47 <mniip> shachaf, http://tcpst.net/v1w2.png the book needs to be updated with a more modern schematic http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/329/056/e96.jpg
02:36:03 <shachaf> mniip: did you know differentiation is a functor hth
02:36:18 <mniip> you mean differentiation of functors?
02:36:42 <shachaf> No, the differentiation operation.
02:36:46 <shachaf> What is differentiation of functors?
02:39:10 <mniip> I totally don't know enough about it, but some functors allow taking a derivative
02:39:46 <mniip> that in CCC algebra corresponds to your average differentiation rules
02:40:31 <shachaf> Is this the Goodwillie thing?
02:41:15 <mniip> probably
02:48:50 <shachaf> mniip: do you like Stokes' theorem?
02:49:01 <mniip> which
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02:49:34 <mniip> the rotor one or the general on?
02:49:34 <shachaf> the good one hth
02:50:08 <oerjan> . o O ( e's all stoked about it )
02:50:09 <mniip> I like the rotor one because that I can at least understand and prove formally
02:50:34 <shachaf> Rotor?
02:50:43 <mniip> curl
02:50:50 <shachaf> Oh.
02:50:52 <shachaf> `5 w
02:50:58 <HackEgo> 1/1:nitia//nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. \ αλτγρ+γ//αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo! \ coppro//coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. \ itidus20//itidus20's entry has been censored. \ belgium//The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
02:51:53 <shachaf> `dowgw coppro
02:51:54 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dowgw: not found
02:51:57 <shachaf> `dowg coppro
02:52:05 <HackEgo> 1927:2013-01-31 <ellioẗt> mv wisdom/a.is523 wisdom/ais523; mv wisdom/c.oppro wisdom/coppro \ 1925:2013-01-31 <oerjän> mv wisdom/coppro wisdom/c.oppro \ 1924:2013-01-31 <oerjän> revert \ 1923:2013-01-31 <coppr̈o> rm wisdom/coppro \ 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
02:52:29 <shachaf> Should someone do something about that wisdom entry?
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02:54:12 <shachaf> `le//rn_append dowg//One who uses many dowgs is known as a dowager.
02:54:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'dowg': A dowg is a wise dog. One who uses many dowgs is known as a dowager.
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10:29:10 <esowiki> [[Tampio]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53947&oldid=53827 * Fergusq * (+281) added hello world example and links
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15:20:59 <int-e> `` find wisdom -type f | wc -l
15:21:00 <HackEgo> 1559
15:21:03 <int-e> . o O ( not so infinite )
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16:26:43 <boily> infinint-e.
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17:36:39 <shachaf> `? ngevd
17:36:40 <HackEgo> ​蔢Ļs+X܊is%_h~s~L=
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17:46:25 <int-e> oh it's not random
17:46:41 <int-e> `? atriq
17:46:42 <HackEgo> atriq or two
17:50:55 <shachaf> It seems pretty close to infinite.
17:51:36 <int-e> I see lots of question marks
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18:43:50 <zseri> hi boily
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18:45:44 <int-e> (What if you eat one of two chicken that are in an entangled quantum state?)
18:52:10 <zseri> the other one is eaten too.
18:56:44 <boily> zsellori!
18:56:52 <boily> int-ello!
18:57:01 <boily> I'm not sure you can eat a quantum chicken...
18:58:08 <zseri> give it a try!
19:03:15 <int-e> *clearly* we should ask ##physics.
19:03:44 <int-e> `grwp quantum
19:03:45 <HackEgo> mathematimu:A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change. \ quote:Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb. \ shor's algorithm:Shor's algorithm allows a quantum computer to factor large integers, such as 21. Taneb thought of it.
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19:28:28 * Taneb hello
19:32:40 <int-e> Taneбрый вечер
19:36:12 <boily> O Tanelle, bonum vesper!
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19:50:32 <wob_jonas> Does anyone by chance have a variant of the Porter2 snowball English stemming program http://snowballstem.org/algorithms/english/stemmer.html that rolls british vs american spellings of "-our" words to the same, eg. "color, colour, neighbor, neighbour, behavior, behaviour, flavor, flavour, honor, honour",
19:51:06 <wob_jonas> but also works correctly on derivatives of those words, so eg. "honorable" and "honourable" would get rolled to the same?
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20:20:50 <int-e> fungot: are you a duplicate block?
20:20:50 <fungot> int-e: monads come from category theory. even so, why's that needed? see fnord :) 3 3 3
20:21:04 <int-e> fungot: I resent that reference
20:21:05 <fungot> int-e: has a huge memory leak. what more could one want? :) i use the words function and expression interchangeably in the rules
20:21:21 <int-e> fungot: you're forgiven
20:21:21 <fungot> int-e: but there are technicalities." paul graham implements a bastardised form of call/ cc
20:21:26 <int-e> ^style
20:21:26 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
20:22:07 <int-e> I don't recall that corner of the irc style... is it new?
20:22:31 <wob_jonas> fungot: no, it's only haters that spread the info about the memory leak. there was one, but it's been fixed in the release like six years ago.
20:22:32 <fungot> wob_jonas: i don't see why anyone finds dead corpses interesting. i should probably also look at new elemnts of foo in order to evaluate the code read by breval.
20:23:19 <int-e> hmm, is there a link between "breval" and "brexit"
20:26:03 <int-e> maybe: "breval" and "brexit" are just two of the many great functions in the upcoming brC [bɹɪk] language.
20:26:53 <int-e> `? ipa
20:26:55 <HackEgo> The IPA (short for International Phonetic Abjad) is an international standard encoding all non-vowel sounds in all spoken languages, and is used to indicate the pronunciation of words. It is incredibly useful, unless you need to pronounce a word.
20:27:44 <int-e> `"
20:27:44 <HackEgo> 1319) <int-e> @tell boily arguably, PHP started out as esoteric, then it became mainstream, and then it became a programming language \ 116) (in #irp) <Sgeo> Flonk, ask on #esoteric? <Flonk> Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P
20:29:47 <boily> `"
20:29:48 <HackEgo> 1109) zzo38 [~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: I need the stats for the small leech, not the big one. So, if you write it on here while I am gone then when I return I will check.] \ 1100) <shachaf> "Well, that was fun" -- Taneb "atriq" Ngevd
20:30:52 <zseri> `"
20:30:53 <HackEgo> 1158) <fungot> kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around \ 347) <Sgeo> I used to be more irritated by alcohol <olsner> Sgeo: you're not supposed to put it in your eyes
20:31:04 <boily> `? zseri
20:31:06 <HackEgo> zseri? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:31:16 <zseri> `? boily
20:31:17 <HackEgo> ​“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
20:31:28 <int-e> `? metasepia
20:31:29 <HackEgo> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
20:31:52 * int-e whistles innocently
20:33:31 <int-e> boily: are you also boring the world, like that Elon guy?
20:34:02 <moony> helloily
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21:14:34 <boily> int-e: yup, but on a surgical scale. drills to poke hole in your teeth and jaw bone ^^
21:14:37 <boily> mhelloony!
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22:53:35 <zzo38> Hello
22:54:32 <zzo38> Today I played another session of GURPS game. (I managed to trick two out of three people into running away by aiming an unready attack at them. They probably did not know that the attack was not ready.)
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23:04:50 <Soni> what's the shortest running Hello World! program?
23:05:01 <Soni> mine takes 987 tab presses
23:05:16 <Soni> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2c60f02093287c593206f0fc616a9dd90f231706&dn=Screenshot%20from%202018-02-03%2018-14-43.png
23:05:56 <zzo38> Shortest running program in what programming language?
23:06:07 <Soni> oh sorry uh
23:06:17 <Soni> what's the shortest running brainfuck Hello World! program?
23:06:24 <Soni> .-.
23:06:31 <zzo38> O, OK.
23:09:44 <zzo38> (And what is that magnet: URI for? What is that file?)
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2018-02-04
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01:27:45 * oerjan forgot to log out _again_
01:28:42 <oerjan> huh, so irssi _does_ have a limit to how far back it keeps a backscroll.
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01:48:22 <alercah> configurable, isn't it?
01:49:02 <oerjan> probably. i don't recall hitting it before.
01:49:57 <\oren\> Yeah I configured it to be much longer than normal
01:57:31 <oerjan> shachaf: today (4 Feb) is the birthday of the bellman hth
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03:12:32 <boily> @massages-loud
03:12:32 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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04:22:06 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53948&oldid=53927 * Noner Kao * (+389) /* Terms */ Add IP explanation
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07:18:47 <shachaf> contrapumpkin: hellontrapumpkin
07:18:58 <shachaf> Do you understand non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs?
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07:50:40 <Hooloovo0> I have used them in the past
07:50:59 <Hooloovo0> shachaf ^
07:51:30 <shachaf> When I read about them they always seem very complicated.
07:52:48 <shachaf> But can't any standard zero-knowledge proof -- the kind where the prover commits to something, then the other person asks for one of two things about it, then the prover reveals some more information about it -- be converted to non-interactive in a pretty straightforward way?
07:53:41 <shachaf> In particular, writing down n commitments, then using an n-bit hash to get n query bits, and then revealing the same information the same way?
07:55:12 <shachaf> Is that a standard approach, or what?
07:55:47 <Hooloovo0> yes
07:56:03 <Hooloovo0> that's how I did it
07:57:43 <Hooloovo0> http://soc1024.ece.illinois.edu/teaching/ece498am/fall2017/ is the class I took
08:04:14 <shachaf> So what are the more complicated approaches? Do they save on space, or allow you to prove more things, or not rely on hash functions, or what?
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08:09:00 <Hooloovo0> I'm not honestly sure
08:09:16 <quintopia> >_>
08:10:21 <quintopia> welp. been gone for a week. did my logs miss you?
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08:44:22 <esowiki> [[TOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53949&oldid=53823 * Null * (-7) make the transition case more clear
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09:28:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Noner Kao * uploaded "[[File:Steady.gif]]": A tile of a TaiDoKu program in steady state, which can be a valid solution of a classic 4*4 SuDoKu, a special Latin square with regional constraint.
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09:32:14 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53951&oldid=53948 * Noner Kao * (+59) /* Terms */ upload figure to show steady state
10:05:14 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53952&oldid=53951 * Noner Kao * (+693) /* Execution Cycle */ update op_lookup
10:26:18 <myname> could any american tell me how much you have to pay for mozzarella sticks vs balls?
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11:33:08 <int-e> https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255?hl=en <-- WTF do you mean by "less secure" and "more secure" and "our security standards"? Links please.
11:34:59 <int-e> https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/66025/what-are-the-dangers-of-allowing-less-secure-apps-to-access-my-google-account maybe
11:35:14 <\oren\> oh shi--
11:35:15 <\oren\> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/929300535096636091/CBA178897FB241F57AB5058F681826F69695BEF4/
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13:55:32 <zseri> helloily
14:00:14 <boily> zsellori!
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20:13:32 <esowiki> [[Triangular]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53953&oldid=52170 * MD XF * (+196)
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23:07:30 <quintopia> @tell boily ping me on discord if you come around
23:07:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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2018-02-05
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00:12:10 <quintopia> progress?
00:12:17 <shachaf> `5 w
00:12:23 <HackEgo> 1/2:lens//A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra. \ categorical product//categorical product is like when you have two category elements A and B then their product is element C iff there are two morphisms p:C->A and q:C->B such that for every element X and morphisms u:X->A and v:X->B there is a unique morphism w:X->C such that u=wp and v=wq.
00:13:59 <shachaf> `n
00:14:00 <HackEgo> 2/2:\ pineapple//Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable. \ prefixes//Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . \ sbeef//Sbeef is the culinary name for meat from scow.
00:14:15 <shachaf> `cwlprits pineapple
00:14:23 <HackEgo> shachäf shachäf boil̈y olsnër
00:15:11 <shachaf> `cwlprits categorical product
00:15:18 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän
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00:16:44 <shachaf> `cwlprits categorical
00:16:52 <HackEgo> oerjän b_jonäs
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00:19:53 * boily prays for the blackness in quintopia's screen to shoo away
00:20:00 <boily> @massages-louc
00:20:00 <lambdabot> quintopia said 1h 12m 30s ago: ping me on discord if you come around
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02:53:37 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53954 * MD XF * (+19056) Created page with "There's no reason to give a formal definition for the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus_definition lambda calculus] here, instead I will showcase some of the inte..."
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05:11:41 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53955&oldid=53952 * Noner Kao * (+609) /* Execution */ add decription
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06:57:23 <zzo38> There is, on All The Tropes wiki, "Faction Calculus". Now you have to do Faction Calculus with actual calculus!
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08:11:09 <\oren\> dimethylamine is a good amine
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11:42:51 <boily> fungot: nostril.
11:42:51 <fungot> boily: use the binary force luke gorrie implemented it. he tells you what language it is implemented." fnord fnord
11:43:25 <boily> . o O ( the fungot lightsaber goes “fnooooord fnooooord” )
11:43:26 <fungot> boily: quote and such). oh i see. the most common first and last element of a, i don't boot this computer very often.
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15:27:32 <zseri> hi
15:50:30 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BMO * New user account
15:59:04 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53956&oldid=53945 * BMO * (+282) /* Introductions */
16:10:40 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53957&oldid=53954 * BMO * (+125) /* Commands */
16:11:06 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53958&oldid=53957 * BMO * (-1) /* Commands */
16:14:10 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53959&oldid=53958 * BMO * (+93)
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16:27:53 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53960&oldid=53959 * BMO * (+534)
16:34:30 <esowiki> [[User:BMO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53961 * BMO * (+163) Created page with "Hello, World! BMO here, I like functional programming and [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/48198/bmo code golf], I also created the esolang [[Functoid]]."
16:58:14 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53962&oldid=53960 * BMO * (+221)
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18:36:05 <wob_jonas> `? categorical
18:36:08 <HackEgo> categorical? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:36:11 <wob_jonas> `dowg categorical
18:36:19 <wob_jonas> um
18:36:20 <HackEgo> 5039:2014-10-10 <oerjän> mv wisdom/categorical{," product"} \ 5038:2014-10-10 <b_jonäs> learn categorical product is like when you have two category elements A and B then their product is element C iff there are two morphisms p:C->A and q:C->B such that for every element X and morphisms u:X->A and v:X->B there is a morphism w:X->C such that u=w
18:36:30 <wob_jonas> ah!
18:36:36 <wob_jonas> I made it, and oerjan moved it
18:36:37 <wob_jonas> I see
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19:10:15 <int-e> it's perfect abstract nonsense.
19:10:55 <wob_jonas> `? categorical product
19:10:57 <HackEgo> categorical product is like when you have two category elements A and B then their product is element C iff there are two morphisms p:C->A and q:C->B such that for every element X and morphisms u:X->A and v:X->B there is a unique morphism w:X->C such that u=wp and v=wq.
19:11:01 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, but the easier part of it
19:15:23 <wob_jonas> `? abstract
19:15:24 <HackEgo> abstract? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:15:26 <wob_jonas> `? abstract nonsense
19:15:27 <HackEgo> We would have an explanation of abstract nonsense here, but it fled into a diagram and we haven't been able to chase it. We will try again once we find an abstract machete.
19:15:52 <wob_jonas> `? international millennium
19:15:54 <HackEgo> international millennium? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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20:56:19 <zseri> hi
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22:57:31 <boily> @metar CYUL
22:57:31 <lambdabot> CYUL 052200Z 24013KT 30SM DRSN FEW040 FEW240 M11/M17 A3012 RMK SC1CI1 CI TR SLP203
22:59:06 <\oren\> Dow Jones crash?
22:59:55 <moony> I wonder if Befunge Joust would be a sane possibility
23:01:09 <boily> \oren\: eh?
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23:03:37 <\oren\> boily: dow jones is down more than 1000 points today
23:03:55 <shachaf> more like scow jones hth
23:05:57 <\oren\> shachaf: how much is a "point" in us dollars?
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23:07:57 <shachaf> Who cares about points?
23:08:30 <shachaf> It's down about 4-5%
23:09:00 <\oren\> shachaf: but how much was it worth in total?
23:09:29 <shachaf> Who cares about a price-weighted index of 30 US stocks?
23:09:49 <\oren\> shachaf: only 30?
23:09:54 <\oren\> huh
23:10:24 <shachaf> That's what the DJIA is
23:10:43 <shachaf> And it's price-weighted, which should irritate you even more
23:11:22 <\oren\> ok so which ones went down?
23:12:04 <\oren\> let's see. walmart went down
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23:14:38 <\oren\> huh, that's bizarre, why does the graph for most of these look the same? do they hold each-other's stocks a lot or something
23:15:01 <\oren\> some went down more than others
23:15:57 <shachaf> There are many things that affect all companies.
23:17:32 <\oren\> McDonalds' didn't go down as much as most of them
23:20:14 <\oren\> while exxon mobil went down more, but wasn't as affected by this weird sell-off at 3 PM
23:21:49 <\oren\> Apple only wont down 2.5%?
23:22:48 <shachaf> Do these differences seem particularly significant to you?
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23:23:42 <\oren\> shachaf: well no, because I don't see what information these buying and selling decisions are based on
23:24:45 <shachaf> Do you have any exposure to these companies yourself?
23:25:02 <\oren\> shachaf: no, I don't own any stocks
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23:25:20 <shachaf> Maybe you should!
23:25:29 <shachaf> Think of all the money you could lose.
23:25:50 <\oren\> have they considered using random numbers?
23:26:45 <shachaf> You don't believe in markets, huh
23:27:34 <\oren\> shachaf: I mean buy and sell stocks mostly at random
23:28:26 <\oren\> rather than an arbitrary set of 30
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23:33:01 <shachaf> Who cares about these 30?
23:33:33 <\oren\> shachaf: a lot of people apparently, but I don't understand why
23:34:19 <shachaf> no one who matters hth
23:34:23 <\oren\> and a lot of the companies in this "industrial average" are retail companies, not industry?
23:34:57 <shachaf> The main reason people like to talk about DJIA is that it's old, I think. Been around for a long time, very traditional. But it's silly.
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23:35:43 <shachaf> You should at least look at S&P 500, which is 500 companies and cap-weighted.
23:36:07 <moony> There was an old abandon esolang on bay12. Poslin. It's really neat, actually. Language is a meta language, and i believe it is capable of redeclaring itself (metacircular). https://bitbucket.org/thomas_bartscher/poslin-specification/overview
23:37:56 <moony> The actual core of the language is under prims.txt in spec
23:39:31 <\oren\> hmmm
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23:40:42 <moony> Or
23:40:48 <moony> It's kinda all over the place :p
23:41:04 <moony> Someone who's good at lisp might be able to decode it a little better (Interpreter is written in Common Lisp)
23:44:28 <shachaf> ski: whoa, are y'all talking about leibniz notation?
23:44:34 <shachaf> Do you understand how it works?
23:44:52 <shachaf> I remember that you wrote about the meaning of partial vs. total derivatives once.
23:54:49 <ski> Leibniz notation can be seen as a macro for Langrange notation over a lambda expression
23:55:16 <ski> d f(x) / d x = (\x. f(x))'(x)
23:55:24 <shachaf> That's what I said.
23:55:33 <shachaf> That it operates on expressions with free variables.
23:55:42 <ski> then, throw in some dependent variables, to confuse the matter
23:55:53 <ski> d y / d x = (\x. y)'(x)
23:55:59 <shachaf> A physicist person disagreed with me but I don't think the disagreement is usually that important.
23:56:13 <ski> `y' here being a dependent variable (think dynamic scoping), depending on the (independent) `x'
23:56:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: y': not found
23:56:16 <shachaf> But what's the meaning of "d x" on its own, not in the expression "d y / d x"?
23:56:49 <ski> for the matter of the above, you don't have to assign a meaning to `d x' on its own
23:56:53 <shachaf> I agree.
23:57:07 <shachaf> But people do assign meanings to "d x" on its own, and things work out.
23:57:15 <ski> (and when you have dependent variables, then the matter of total vs. partial variable appears)
23:57:34 <moony> Question: Is a truely meta language (A meta language in which all possible meta languages can be implemented in and can describe any machine) even possible on a mathematical perspective?
23:57:36 <shachaf> for example "x^2 + y^2 = 0" -> "2 d x + 2 d y = 0" -> "dy/dx = -x/y"
23:57:41 <moony> I can't wrap my head around it :p
23:57:46 <shachaf> Neither x nor y is really dependent on the other here.
23:58:05 <shachaf> I'm sorry, "2 x dx + 2 y dy = 0"
23:59:52 <ski> instead of having a functional dependency from `x' to `y' in `d y / d x', i think one can allow more general relations. but then it may not be enough to know that relatioship, and the particular value of `x', in order to determine `d y / d x'. in particular, one may also have to know `y' (such that the relationship obtains between that `y' and the selected `x', of course). see "implicit function theorem"
2018-02-06
00:00:26 <shachaf> Right.
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00:01:16 <ski> perhaps another way that could be used (sometimes ?) is to imagine a common parameterization (of both `x' and `y'), say `t'. then you're just surpressing a `/ d t' in the middle formula there
00:01:43 <ski> i haven't thought these ideas out that far
00:01:51 <shachaf> Yes, that's the best way I know to make sense of these things.
00:02:13 <shachaf> But given that the choice of parameterization doesn't really matter, I feel like there ought to be a direct way to think about it.
00:02:35 <ski> (line and surface integrals is still something i'm pondering how to make sense of (perhaps adapting/repairing it somewhat) the notation for)
00:02:42 <shachaf> One thing you can do is look at the zero set of f(x,y) = x^2 + y^2 - 1
00:03:02 <ski> i'd be nice to have a way to connect this with SDG
00:03:17 <shachaf> And then look at the zero set of its derivative, say f(x,y)(dx,dy) = 2 x dx + 2 y dy, at some point f(x,y)
00:03:29 * ski is also reminded of some papers that computed derivatives of programs (operating on bags, in many of the examples)
00:03:54 <ski> yea, linearity
00:04:16 <ski> f : |R^2 -> |R
00:04:29 <ski> f' : |R^2 -> (|R^2 -o |R)
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00:04:38 <shachaf> Yes, exactly.
00:05:08 <shachaf> Anyway people do many strange tricks. Like dy/dx = ky -> dy = dy/y = k dx -> \int{dy/y} = \int{k dx} . I don't really know how to make sense of dy and dx in that sort of context.
00:05:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:05:58 <ski> (in SDG, `|R^D' is iso to `|R^2', where `D = {d : |R | d^2 = 0}'. from `f' where `f(d) = a + b*d' for every `d' in `D', we get `(a,b)', intercept and slope)
00:07:13 <shachaf> A connection to regular DG would be good too. :-) I don't think this is the same kind of "d".
00:27:17 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53963&oldid=53955 * Noner Kao * (+0) Fix the capital in the info box
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01:40:03 * ski sighs
01:41:03 <oerjan> sii(sii)
01:41:29 <shachaf> try that one on for sighs
01:45:21 <ski> btdt
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02:03:20 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53964&oldid=53963 * Noner Kao * (+2650) /* Refinement */ finish the description
02:05:23 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53965&oldid=53964 * Noner Kao * (-2) /* Refinement */ fix the link
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02:12:11 <esowiki> [[Functoid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53966&oldid=53962 * Oerjan * (+17) /* Commands */ Use wikitable
02:12:51 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:15:06 * moony combines oerjan's flyswatter with an anti-flyswatter. ###-----
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02:28:05 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53967&oldid=53965 * Noner Kao * (+669) /* Terms */ add explanation of new terms and some fixes
02:30:35 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53968&oldid=53967 * Noner Kao * (-3) /* Refinement */ minor fixes
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03:04:47 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53969&oldid=53968 * Noner Kao * (+422) /* Execution */ more explanation
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05:07:31 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53971&oldid=53970 * Noner Kao * (+1953) /* Meta Operations */ define meta operations
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05:17:08 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53972&oldid=53971 * Noner Kao * (+411) Dialects and some fix
05:17:53 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Noner Kao * moved [[User:Noner Kao/TaiDoKu]] to [[TaiDoKu]]: The basic specification is done
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06:41:51 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53975&oldid=53973 * Noner Kao * (+92) /* Meta Operations */ add meta.sync
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07:00:00 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53976&oldid=53864 * Noner Kao * (+14) /* T */ add TaiDoKu
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07:05:35 <esowiki> [[User:Noner Kao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53977&oldid=53925 * Noner Kao * (+137) /* Projects */ update the status
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08:21:46 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53978&oldid=53975 * Noner Kao * (+895) Add program format spec
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11:36:32 <boily> `5 w
11:36:39 <HackEgo> 1/3:tas//TAS is a tool-assisted speedrun: a race in which participants must use quality tools such as the PHP hammer, Autoconf, and the Arkenpliers to assist them in running. \ ehlist//ehlist is update notification for the Everyday Heroes webcomic. http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/ \ arothmorphise//arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant...
11:36:39 <boily> `n
11:36:40 <HackEgo> 2/3: oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry. \ welcome.es//¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolang
11:36:41 <boily> `n
11:36:42 <HackEgo> 3/3:s.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.) \ cat introduction//cat introduction is the process of piping one or more extra `cat` commands into your pipeline; occasionally this is even actually useful.
11:38:10 <shachaf> cats require no introduction
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12:37:41 <mroman> 'elloh
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17:47:27 <zseri> https://github.com/blizzard4591/cmake-portable-endian/pull/2
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17:52:09 <int-e> yay. 64 bytes from ...: icmp_seq=8230 ttl=54 time=37742 ms
17:54:25 <zseri> wow
17:55:21 * int-e is on a crappy mobile plan
17:55:39 <int-e> but it's kind of amazing just how crappy it is sometimes :)
17:56:16 <zseri> 64 bytes from ...: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=67.1 ms; through Cisco VPN and ZPRD
18:01:00 <int-e> basically it gewts slow when I'm downloading something (you know, like a 100kb picture for a website)... it starets queuing packets like crazy. But it's doing that to a ridiculous degree. (let's see how many typos I have in this...)
18:07:41 <int-e> oh and it's not always this bad. depends on the time of day, so I guess the neighbourhood is just crowded in terms of mobile contracts.
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18:19:42 <int-e> and sometimes resetting the usb modem helps
18:20:29 <int-e> But heh, I'm getting some amusement out of this, so why switch to something else...
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20:39:06 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53979 * DMC * (+3616) Created page with "'''Grawlix''' This is the horrible Grawlix Programming Language - [[Brainfuck]] with some enhancements. ==Description== *8 bit memory cells (or other bit amounts) *Everythin..."
20:39:27 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53980&oldid=53979 * DMC * (-14)
20:40:49 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53981&oldid=53976 * DMC * (+14)
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20:42:17 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53982&oldid=53980 * DMC * (-9) /* Some code constructs that are possible */
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20:49:12 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53983&oldid=53933 * DMC * (+4)
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22:29:25 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53984&oldid=53981 * HactarCE * (+15) Added [[Metatape]]
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22:51:15 <fizzie> int-e: Heh, and I complained (well, mentioned as an aside in an unrelated complaint) to my ISP because the native IPv6 to my VPS got a round-trip of 21 ms, compared to 8 ms for IPv4.
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23:04:12 <boily> `5 w
23:04:17 <HackEgo> 1/2:if//If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss: \ pspace//PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction. \ mdude//MDude is just a dude, with an M's courag
23:04:18 <boily> `n
23:04:19 <HackEgo> 2/2:e. \ manager//Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html \ hacker//Jim Hacker is a former British prime minister.
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23:29:34 <wob_jonas> yeah, two of those wisdoms are mine
23:29:47 <wob_jonas> `dowg pspace
23:29:55 <HackEgo> 9284:2016-10-14 <alercäh> learn PSPACE is the complexity class of Problem SPACEs. It is the same as P, by an herbal reduction.
23:29:56 <wob_jonas> `? peace
23:29:57 <HackEgo> peace? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:29:59 <wob_jonas> `? peace moon
23:30:00 <HackEgo> peace moon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:30:01 <wob_jonas> `? peace witch
23:30:03 <HackEgo> peace witch? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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23:39:08 <wob_jonas> `slashlearn peace witch//Peace witches do alchemy: they turn mundane building material to gold. They're in the same universe where Bowser turned peaceful citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom to building material.
23:39:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'peace witch': Peace witches do alchemy: they turn mundane building material to gold. They're in the same universe where Bowser turned peaceful citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom to building material.
23:43:06 <boily> I can't seem to find if there's h-dropping in Canadian English. Is it “an herbal“ or “a herbal”?
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23:44:10 <wob_jonas> boily: aren't there words where the "h" is silent in pretty much every dialect of English?
23:44:20 <wob_jonas> like "hour"
23:44:26 <wob_jonas> I don't know how this works
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23:49:35 <boily> Wikipédia says: “The word "herb" is pronounced /hɜːrb/ in the Commonwealth,[1] but /ɜːrb/ is common among North American speakers and those from other regions where h-dropping occurs.”
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23:51:21 <wob_jonas> how about hour, honest, honor, heritage?
23:51:32 <moony> I was going to write my second submission to https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/155018/the-programming-language-quiz-mark-ii-cops in Assembly for the Apollo Guidance Computer. But the emulator says otherwise. That sucks.
23:51:49 <boily> wob_jonas: h, h, h, h? at least in my mangled English pronounciation.
23:51:59 <boily> mhelloony.
23:52:03 <moony> helloily
23:53:07 <wob_jonas> boily: I always pronounce "hour" without an h, and I thought most people did, but apparently no. I think "honest" and "honor" vary by accent, and I usually drop the "h" in them, and I'm totally unsure about "heritage"
23:53:49 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53985&oldid=53978 * Noner Kao * (+55) Add reference implementation
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23:59:46 <wob_jonas> "heir" and "homage" are the next ones suspicious for me, but of course I'm really bad at English pronunciation so I've no idea which words are actually supposed to have the "h" dropped. I think there are accents that drop "h" much more often.
2018-02-07
00:00:10 <wob_jonas> I don't even know which words have the "h" drop in their base form in Hungarian, although supposedly some do
00:00:21 <wob_jonas> there must be a list of that somewhere
00:01:14 <wob_jonas> http://www.e-nyelv.hu/2009-01-12/vaskoh-nema-h-ra-vegzodo-szavak/ has the list
00:01:51 <wob_jonas> or at least the list according to some authority
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01:38:35 <int-e> oerjan: I wonder how hard it is to understand http://lpaste.net/362248#a362252 :-P
01:47:29 <oerjan> int-e: no clue what you're trying to calculate
01:53:51 <boily> alercah: hellorcah! do you rochester?
01:56:13 <alercah> negatory, I do not USA these days
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01:57:39 <boily> alercah: sad. but will you be montréaling?
01:59:18 <alercah> boily: when is?
01:59:36 <oerjan> . o O ( moony is on PPCG? )
01:59:45 <moony> . o O ( Definitely )
02:00:16 <moony> I mean, i do own the nick moonheart08 on IRC, even if i don't use it :P
02:01:18 <boily> alercah: unknown, but this autumn (95% sure, p < 0.05).
02:02:07 <oerjan> boily: if i understand your h placements in the logs, they're exactly the opposite of what i would have used.
02:02:08 <esowiki> [[BrainCurses/implementation.js]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53986&oldid=49026 * Conor O'Brien * (-24)
02:02:21 * oerjan goes to wiktionary
02:04:28 <boily> oerjan: h is a confusing letter...
02:04:30 <oerjan> hm apparently hour is actually both, the rest are as i thought.
02:04:54 <oerjan> of course wiktionary could be missing options.
02:07:06 <boily> I think “our” and “hour” ought to be said differently.
02:10:03 <moony> I wonder if my solution for The Programming Language Quiz II was a little TOO difficult
02:10:13 <moony> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
02:10:44 <alercah> boily: then I will try hard!
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02:20:23 <fizzie> itym 'ard hth
02:20:39 <fizzie> s/hth/ote/
02:20:45 <moony> fhizze
02:21:07 <fizzie> Hey-o.
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02:30:40 <boily> alercah: hype! :D
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03:25:52 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ivan * New user account
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03:30:14 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53987&oldid=53956 * Ivan * (+258)
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04:29:42 <esowiki> [[User:Wheatwizard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53988&oldid=53627 * Wheatwizard * (+78)
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04:45:15 <esowiki> [[L]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53989&oldid=45600 * Wheatwizard * (-1) Fixed an error in the description
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05:15:10 <oerjan> good epiphany, whooster
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05:42:10 <moony> doesthiswork, it works
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06:58:21 <doesthiswork> yay moony
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10:07:08 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53990&oldid=53985 * Noner Kao * (+494) /* Format Specification */ refine the programming spec
10:07:17 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53991&oldid=53990 * Noner Kao * (+0) /* Format Specification */
10:07:46 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53992&oldid=53991 * Noner Kao * (+1) /* Format Specification */
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11:49:59 <boily> `5 w
11:50:04 <HackEgo> 1/2:sparkle//Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photographs and drawings. \ hice//Hice is the plural form of house. \ friend//friend is a portmanteau of fritter and rend \ `?//​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ welcome.is//Halló og verið velkomin á hinn alþjóðlegann miðpunkt
11:50:05 <boily> `n
11:50:06 <HackEgo> 2/2:fyrir esoteríska forritunarmálshönnun og dreifingu. Meiri upplýsingar er hægt að nálgast á wikinu <http://esolangs.org/>. (Fyrir annarskonar esoterík prufið #esoteric á EFnet eða DALnet.)
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14:57:42 <zseri> hi
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20:46:09 <zseri_> currently I think about making a programming language similar to XTW, but instead of internal constant symbol contents I want to use a COW-alike mechanism that copies the data on write only if there is more than one reference to (!shared_ptr.unique()).
20:47:36 <zseri_> On the other hand I think about potential usages of constant symbol contents, as constant contents don't allow data races in parallel code. Maybe I should extent XTW to support parallel threads.
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21:29:54 <zseri_> bye
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22:08:39 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Soaku * New user account
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23:40:08 <wob_jonas> `8-ball Where the heck is my other Auriok Steelshaper? I can't find it anywhere in the box of whites
23:40:09 <HackEgo> Signs point to yes.
23:40:51 <wob_jonas> fungot, same question
23:40:51 <fungot> wob_jonas: by the way, fnord takes a thunk, but doesn't require abandoning hygiene. if you want...
23:53:20 <boily> wellob_jonas. monowhite artifact?
23:53:50 <wob_jonas> boily: no, I'm experimenting with splashing significant amount of blue in it
23:54:18 <wob_jonas> the only good part of the deck is the 4 Kor Duelist + 4 Bonesplitter combo. the rest is junk, but I keep switching up what junk it is
23:56:24 <wob_jonas> the annoying part is that whenever I try to optimize the deck, it always seems like if I keep doing local improvements, I'll eventually just remove the whole equipment and artifact theme from it, and just get some decent white deck, possibly a white soldier deck
23:57:10 <wob_jonas> I should buy more cards to be able to build better decks, although this equipment deck might not be among the ones I want to bulid
2018-02-08
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00:15:19 <esowiki> [[Featured languages/Candidates]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53993&oldid=44816 * Camto * (+14)
00:15:37 <esowiki> [[Featured languages/Candidates]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53994&oldid=53993 * Camto * (+77)
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01:04:10 <oerjan> *wooster
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01:40:08 <esowiki> [[Featured languages/Candidates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53995&oldid=53994 * Oerjan * (-173) This page was created in error, turning into redirect
01:48:41 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53996&oldid=41159 * Oerjan * (+111) /* List of candidates */ I'm totally faking this formatting, but it was actually put on the wrong page [[Featured languages/Candidates]].
01:49:24 <oerjan> we do anything to serve. except for actually changing the featured language, that is.
01:51:15 <boily> bonsϿirjan. when will it be feather?
01:52:28 <shachaf> oerjan: how about i do y'all a favor and suggest brainfuck as a featured language candidate hth
01:53:47 <oerjan> shachaf: excellent idea, will save us work
01:53:52 <shachaf> "Languages that have not already been featured are strongly preferred, unless it has been a long time since it was previously featured, or significant new developments have occurred that warrant a second featuring."
01:59:09 <oerjan> well it _has_ been a long time.
01:59:28 <shachaf> it was previously featured very recently hth
01:59:42 <shachaf> Is featuring level-triggered or edge-triggered?
01:59:57 <oerjan> er i don't understand those terms.
02:00:19 <oerjan> well i guess i can guess
02:01:07 <oerjan> (perfective vs. imperfective aspect, anyone?)
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02:32:35 <LKoen> hello
02:32:44 <LKoen> can you see the characters at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%92%86%8D%F0%92%80%AD%F0%92%8A%8F%F0%92%86%A0#Akkadian ?
02:52:39 <oerjan> LKoen: yes
02:52:47 <LKoen> I can't
02:54:41 <oerjan> font problem, presumably
02:56:24 <LKoen> I suppose so
02:56:35 <LKoen> I wanted to write Babylone in Babylonian
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05:01:06 <\oren\> "How do I catch excetion polymophicly"
05:01:17 <\oren\> real literate there, me
05:03:27 <\oren\> `? polymorphism
05:03:28 <HackEgo> polymorphism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
05:03:34 <\oren\> `? morphism
05:03:35 <HackEgo> A morphism is just a natural transformation between two diagrams of shape 1.
05:04:03 <\oren\> `? polymorphic
05:04:04 <HackEgo> polymorphic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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05:15:49 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ts * New user account
05:36:30 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53997&oldid=53987 * Ts * (+326)
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05:56:36 <esowiki> [[Talk:BestFriends.js]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53998 * MD XF * (+148) Created page with "I read "You CANNOT use nested loops in BestFriends.". Is this simply because the language creator was too lazy to implement them in the interpreter?"
05:56:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:BestFriends.js]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53999&oldid=53998 * MD XF * (+18)
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06:00:24 <esowiki> [[Talk:Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54000&oldid=51321 * Ts * (+426) /* txeT */ new section
06:32:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:Image]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54001 * Ts * (+96) /* Image is TC */ new section
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06:54:33 <esowiki> [[Talk:Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54002&oldid=54000 * Ts * (+71)
06:55:03 <esowiki> [[Talk:Image]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54003&oldid=54001 * Ts * (+71)
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11:06:26 <Asus> can someone help me find truther community? what would i search for online for people into conspiracies christianity and the occult?A
11:12:52 <Taneb> `welcom Asus
11:12:52 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcom: not found
11:12:55 <Taneb> `welcome Asus
11:12:56 <HackEgo> Asus: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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11:21:33 <shachaf> hi Taneb
11:21:50 <shachaf> Do you think Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download should be featured?
11:21:59 <Taneb> I have no objection
11:22:29 <Taneb> It certainly meets the requirements to my knowlege
11:43:28 <esowiki> [[Object oriented thue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54004&oldid=44561 * Fergusq * (+14)
12:27:34 <Soni> I want a language with concurrent, compare-and-swap-able reference counting
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14:13:14 <zseri> hi
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15:00:29 <esowiki> [[Triangularity]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54005 * Mr. Xcoder * (+4471) Created page with "'''Triangularity''' is a stack-based esoteric programming language created in early 2018 by PPCG user [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/59487/mr-xcoder?tab=profile Mr...."
15:01:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54006&oldid=53984 * Mr. Xcoder * (+20) /* T */
15:04:28 <esowiki> [[Triangularity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54007&oldid=54005 * Mr. Xcoder * (-1)
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16:57:21 <wob_jonas> Just feature Underload. The only reason it hasn't been featured yet is because ais didn't want to feature his own language.
16:59:02 <wob_jonas> Or feature Chef.
16:59:26 <wob_jonas> Or Intercal.
17:00:34 <Taneb> wob_jonas: the state of the Chef article is not suited to being featured
17:03:18 <wob_jonas> Hmm. :(
17:06:05 <wob_jonas> I should improve [[Combinatory logic]]. Currently it doesn't even link to the Smullyan bird book, Underload, or Unlambda.
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19:48:04 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54008&oldid=53982 * DMC * (+0) /* External resources */
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19:55:53 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54009&oldid=54008 * DMC * (+82)
19:57:41 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54010&oldid=54009 * DMC * (-6) /* External resources */
20:03:50 <int-e> fungot: !
20:03:50 <fungot> int-e: ow! rexx has 3 votes and ork has 4 votes, both at conlang and at esolangs i've met people from my company made against the training sergeants
20:04:14 <int-e> `"
20:04:15 <HackEgo> 190) <asiekierka> GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment \ 1000) <olsner> I've seen horses jump on tv, they can probably jump in scotland too
20:04:42 <olsner> heh, clever alias for `quote
20:04:53 <int-e> `'
20:04:54 <HackEgo> 547) <fizzie> I prefer the N64 controller, it's the only one that has place for my third hand.
20:04:54 <shachaf> That's a double quote, it gives two quotes.
20:04:59 <olsner> and I have yet to ask someone from scotland if horses can jump there
20:05:51 <int-e> . o O ( It depends, where are they jumping from? )
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20:21:09 <mroman> evening.
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20:35:37 <mroman> Taneb: Did you look at the new esosc draft?
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21:10:58 <zseri> bye
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21:16:03 * boily shakes a penguin
21:16:21 <int-e> FROZEN CHICKEN?
21:16:34 <boily> int-ello! I'm having weird issues with my desktop.
21:16:54 <int-e> Ah. Have you tried putting it on the ground?
21:17:05 <boily> it's already there.
21:17:22 <int-e> That's some confusing terminology then.
21:17:46 <boily> only slightly misoriented.
21:18:16 <boily> booting hangs. I can get to X if I Alt-F2, login then `startx`.
21:18:45 <APic> =]
21:18:48 <boily> gnome3 starts with all the fixins, but I can't move the mouse.
21:19:00 <boily> mouse works if I unplug it then plug it again.
21:19:17 <boily> no dns unless I manually edit resolv.conf to point to 8.8.4.4.
21:21:02 <boily> APHic! anything similar happening on your end?
21:21:33 * boily dropkicks a penguin from the third cable, then spins it into a chokehold
21:21:38 <int-e> sounds like fun
21:23:56 <int-e> Broken hotplug, hmm. (What's responsible, systemd? I bet it's systemd. Systemd can be blamed for everything that goes wrong on a Linux PC)
21:24:18 <int-e> (The broken part would be registering all the devices that were already available at boot time.)
21:25:09 <boily> most probably systemd, but then how do I intimidate it so it works again?
21:25:20 <int-e> And this is pure speculation. It's stuff I only look at when *my* system breaks... and I promptly forget it afterwards. It'll be different the next time around anyway.
21:25:32 <APic> Evil new systemd…
21:25:47 <boily> I mean, I can live with that workaround until the next update...
21:25:54 <APic> Sometimes i wait almost a Minute until the next getty starts when i switch to VT 3… ☹
21:26:02 <boily> I like systemd. mostly.
21:26:12 <boily> I can try waiting!
21:26:48 <APic> And needed to take „auto enp0s2“ out of my /etc/network/interfaces
21:27:07 <APic> Because it then always waited several Minutes for a Network-Connection
21:28:25 <int-e> systemd... stole my system logs, and took away my core dumps, "broke" 'halt', and I no longer understand how the system boots...
21:28:57 <int-e> (I know that I can configure the first two... but the second, in particular, was quite a puzzler for a while.)
21:31:45 <int-e> I still haven't trained my fingers to use 'poweroff'. Fortunately, I 'reboot' most of the time anyway.
21:34:18 <boily> hey... if I hibernate, maybe I won't have to dance around all these issues?
21:36:21 <int-e> perhaps
21:37:05 <boily> the Mysteries of Systemd. mystemdies.
21:37:33 <int-e> dies, eh
21:37:35 <int-e> morbid.
21:38:24 <shachaf> Die GNU Autotools
21:39:08 <int-e> german book title?
21:39:55 <boily> helloochaf. that I can wholeheartedly get behind with.
21:41:58 <int-e> APic: oh I miss eth0 :)
21:42:43 <APic> int-e: Me too
21:42:54 <int-e> (though I can get behind the technical reason why we no longer have it)
21:52:18 <boily> there are reasons it's not eth0 anymore?
22:06:00 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54011&oldid=53263 * DMC * (-199) Blanked the page
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22:21:54 <boily> `5 w
22:21:59 <HackEgo> 1/3:dereduntantation//Dereduntantation is the process of making things less redundant. It is typically done with either regexes or regular expressions. \ haiku//🀨や⛄ \ coptology//Coptology is comprised of coptanalysis and coptography. Coptanalysis is concerned with the disassembly and reverse engineering of copters, whereas coptography
22:22:00 <boily> `n
22:22:01 <HackEgo> 2/3:is the art of designing and engineering copters that are robust against coptanalysis. \ www//WWW is an abbreviation that takes longer to pronounce properly than what it expands to. \ canary//A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up, unless they're pining for the fjo
22:22:02 <boily> `n
22:22:04 <HackEgo> 3/3:rds.
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2018-02-09
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01:28:47 <wob_jonas> "<boily> mouse works if I unplug it then plug it again." => I've had such a problem with an old keyboard and a new motherboard of whose keyboard controller was apparently not properly tested for AT plug keyboards with the AT to PS/2 passive converter. Every time the motherboard lost power (but not when it was just turned off and on properly), I had
01:28:47 <wob_jonas> to unplug and replug the keyboard.
01:30:12 <wob_jonas> It also had a problem with the parallel port printer, but a different one: if I booted straight to linux, the printer wouldn't work. I had to boot to DOS, which somehow magically initialized the printer controller or something, which you noticed from the printer beeping and its online led turning on, then boot to linux from that (with loadlin or gr
01:30:12 <wob_jonas> ub2 for dos).
01:30:41 <wob_jonas> That was a long ago, at that time I considered booting linux with loadlin normal, so this wasn't a big problem.
01:31:10 <wob_jonas> I just had a linux entry at the dos startup menu, and also a command to boot linux later.
01:36:26 <boily> wellob_jonas. I'm running on not-exactly-new hardware, but I don't believe that'd be the cause?
01:37:20 <boily> I wouldn't be surprised at all that it's some kind of dubious upgrade that broke everything. I'm running on Ubuntu 18.04 on ~twelve year old stuff...
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01:46:28 <boily> bonsϿϿirjan.
01:47:46 <wob_jonas> boily: sure, it's probably not related
01:49:19 * boily glares at his machine
01:49:37 <ski> hm, my brother had a computer where one had to unplug and replug the (PS/2) keyboard during start-up, to be able to use it during GRUB
01:50:16 <ski> (the USB keyboard wouldn't work at all, there, while it worked fine after the OS had booted)
01:50:42 <wob_jonas> "<int-e> I still haven't trained my fingers to use 'poweroff'." Oh, so that's how it works? I was wondering why "halt" wasn't working, because it only halted the OS, but didn't turn off the motherboard, since the upgrade. Which was strange because it used to work.
01:50:47 <wob_jonas> I blamed drivers.
01:51:43 <ski> (otoh, if one booted windows, the PS/2 keyboard would cause the system to hog, if one used modifier keys (on either keyboard). so one'd unplug the PS/2 one after boot there)
01:58:27 <fizzie> I have an external USB hard disk enclosure, and one of the computers here will get stuck forever in boot if it's plugged in. Have to remember to unplug it to reboot. Works fine otherwise. Computers.
01:59:19 <wob_jonas> fizzie: the endless loop isn't just because it's trying to boot from the potential hard disk in the enclosure and failing, right?
02:00:27 <fizzie> Right. It won't go to the BIOS menu either.
02:00:47 <fizzie> I presume it's trying to figure out what it is, as part of some sort of hardware enumeration step.
02:07:42 <esowiki> [[User:Conor O'Brien]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54012&oldid=53454 * Conor O'Brien * (+60) /* Languages I have implemented */
02:09:00 <wob_jonas> fizzie: is it possible that it's a hardware fault in the enclosure, such as caused by some damage to the electronics, like two wires are shorted by something that got into it by accident?
02:09:33 <esowiki> [[Alarm Clock Radio/implementation.rb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54013 * Conor O'Brien * (+4064) Created page with "This is an implementation of [[Alarm Clock Radio]] in Ruby by [[User:Conor O'Brien]]. == Implementation == #!/usr/bin/ruby require 'optparse' # alarm clock radio # beca..."
02:10:27 <wob_jonas> I had a case when a serial port male socket with a metal frame wasn't attached to the back of the chasis properly, it was just loose on a cable from the motherboard, and the metal frame was touching something on the motherboard, causing the machine to not start to come at life at all. luckily it didn't seem to cause any permanent damage.
02:10:29 <esowiki> [[Alarm Clock Radio]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54014&oldid=34188 * Conor O'Brien * (+135) add interpreter reference
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02:32:37 <oerjan> bood evenily.
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03:23:45 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jo King * New user account
03:26:46 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54015&oldid=53997 * Jo King * (+311) introduced myself
03:28:15 <esowiki> [[Cardinal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54016&oldid=50825 * Jo King * (+39) fixed incorrect commands (NSEW -> UDLR
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11:45:00 <boily> aaaaaurgh. didn't have to unplug my mouse, but now the fan is crazy and I can't get it to spin like a normal fan.
11:45:08 * boily kicks his desktop
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11:51:02 <int-e> not a fan of fanatic fans, eh?
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11:54:09 * boily gold plates his mapole and royally thwacks int-e. 1.00 FP.
11:54:47 <boily> int-ello. it's noisy, but the temp remains around 50 °C so the hardware isn't melting away...
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12:14:38 <int-e> boily: so, have you tried switching it off and on again?
12:15:06 * int-e quietly removes the battered int-e decoy and replaces it with a new one.
12:16:18 <int-e> `? boily
12:16:19 <HackEgo> ​“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
12:17:34 <int-e> `? oerjan
12:17:35 <HackEgo> Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
12:17:50 <boily> int-e: I powered it off yesterday night. this morning the mouse works, but the fan level is too powerful.
12:18:19 <boily> I still have to escape to GRUB, recovery mode, then resume if I want to be able to Alt-F2 then startx.
12:18:41 * boily punches, elbows and shoulders the damned thing
12:19:14 <int-e> `slwed boily//s/Only sane adverb/Sane Mapoleon/
12:19:15 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slwed: not found
12:19:21 <int-e> `slwd boily//s/Only sane adverb/Sane Mapoleon/
12:19:23 <HackEgo> boily//“Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
12:20:21 <boily> `slwd oerjan//s/twice/thrice/
12:20:23 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud punster is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He thrice punned without noticing it.
12:24:35 <int-e> TIL that DST was last introduced between 1977 and 1980 for most of Europe (and previously during the 1st and 2nd world war).
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13:33:14 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54017&oldid=53992 * Noner Kao * (-135) change some spec
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15:21:13 <esowiki> [[Instruction pointer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54018&oldid=8784 * Ais523 * (+21) change to section redirect
15:25:02 <izabera> https://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/thumbs/240/emojipedia/113/smiling-face-with-smiling-eyes-and-three-hearts_1f970.png
15:25:11 <izabera> did you notice any problems with the THREE hearts?
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17:04:47 <Guest78223> izabera : I guess one of these heart is a FAKE
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17:50:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * 3snoW * New user account
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17:56:45 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54019&oldid=54015 * 3snoW * (+349) /* Introductions */
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18:10:09 <esowiki> [[Number Factory]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54020&oldid=53006 * 3snoW * (+902) I want to include a bit of code for those interested :)
18:13:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54021&oldid=47028 * Martin Ender * (+482)
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18:30:05 <esowiki> [[The Waterfall Model]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54022 * Ais523 * (+9776) new language?
18:30:36 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54023&oldid=54006 * Ais523 * (+26) /* T */ +[[The Waterfall Model]]
18:31:02 <esowiki> [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54024&oldid=53661 * Ais523 * (+25) +[[The Waterfall Model]]
18:33:09 <ais523> I'm really happy with this language, it seems like there's a lot of promise for compiling to and from it and for writing interesting implementations
18:35:06 <esowiki> [[Number Factory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54025&oldid=54020 * 3snoW * (+178) /* Interpreter */
18:35:59 <esowiki> [[Number Factory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54026&oldid=54025 * 3snoW * (+2) /* Interpreter */
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18:52:53 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54027 * DMC * (+3342) Created page with "'''No-Register Assembly Language''' - A simple assembly-style language based on a hypothetical processor that has no internal registers. Created by [[User:DMC]] ==General Con..."
18:53:44 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54028&oldid=54023 * DMC * (+12) /* N */
18:54:50 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54029&oldid=53983 * DMC * (+22)
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20:51:03 <shachaf> `olist 1112
20:51:04 <HackEgo> olist 1112: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:59:05 <zzo38> One of the hearts is small
21:01:07 <Phantom_Hoover> is this commentary on something zzo38
21:01:36 <zzo38> It is the picture izabera linked to
21:01:53 <zzo38> There is three hearts other than the small one
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21:35:47 <zzo38> Do you think this is good? https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/GURPS1 Maybe you know more stuff which is applicable to add
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23:15:53 <zzo38> Now I read Waterfall Model; I think it is good. (But, shouldn't they be called "Waterclocks Model" instead?)
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23:41:37 * boily straps an automatic kicker to his desktop
23:41:52 <shachaf> `5 w
23:41:57 <HackEgo> 1/2:brain//Brains are just receptacles for bricks. \ //Frosty the Snowman / had a very shiny nose / And everywhere that Frosty went / the nose was sure to go. \ fnord am//Fnord AM is the repeated hour that happens when DST resolves. It is customary to celebrate it with a Garou Ping if one is awake during that time. \ imperative language/
23:42:06 <shachaf> `n
23:42:07 <HackEgo> 2/2:/Imperative languages tell you what to do. \ monomorphism//A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category.
23:42:57 <shachaf> `cwlprits ☃
23:43:05 <HackEgo> int-̈e FireFl̈y
23:43:17 <shachaf> `quote HIRAGANA
23:43:18 <HackEgo> 1257) <mauris> MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW
23:43:32 <shachaf> lynn: hynn
23:44:23 <shachaf> For some reason I thought that haiku was fizzie's.
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2018-02-10
00:02:18 <lynn> I actually bumped into it again just the other day!
00:02:27 <lynn> it's so good. there's so many layers to it
00:03:39 <shachaf> I should adopt SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW
00:03:57 <shachaf> http://unicode.org/consortium/adopted-characters.html
00:10:19 <zzo38> I found apparently Hero Mesh has a undocumented command called "UpdateScreen". (I saw it used in another puzzle set.)
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00:36:07 <boily> lynn: hellynn. you know fizzie?
00:37:11 <oerjan> helloily. when was my third unnoticed pun twh
00:37:50 <shachaf> `dowg oerjan
00:38:34 <boily> bonsøirjan. I don't know, but you will probably some time in the future.
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00:41:06 <shachaf> what's going on with HackEgo tdnh
00:41:09 <shachaf> Oh.
00:42:07 <shachaf> I like "twice".
00:42:19 <shachaf> It should only be changed if there's a good third unnoticed pun.
00:42:26 <boily> I think “thrice” sounds better...
00:42:51 <boily> I shall wait for the Third Unnoticed Pun.
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00:43:35 <shachaf> `doag
00:43:36 <HackEgo> 11342:2018-02-09 <boil̈y> slwd oerjan//s/twice/thrice/ \ 11341:2018-02-09 <int-̈e> slwd boily//s/Only sane adverb/Sane Mapoleon/ \ 11340:2018-02-06 <wob_jonäs> slashlearn peace witch//Peace witches do alchemy: they turn mundane building material to gold. They\'re in the same universe where Bowser turned peaceful citizens of the Mushroom Kingdom
00:43:43 <shachaf> `revert
00:43:44 <HackEgo> Done.
00:43:55 <shachaf> You gotta wait for the pun.
00:43:56 <shachaf> `mkx bin/dowrjan//dowg oerjan
00:43:58 <HackEgo> bin/dowrjan
00:50:55 <esowiki> [[Talk:Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54030&oldid=54021 * Oerjan * (+305) /* Source of the Wumpus quote */ Chris Pressey added it
00:55:25 <oerjan> so many ppcg'ers... and i won rookie answer of 2017 !
00:56:13 <shachaf> i assume dowrjan = dowry oerjan
00:56:21 <shachaf> but i didn't know oerjan was married
00:56:28 <oerjan> i assumed it was a reference to the dowager thing
00:56:36 <oerjan> `grwp dowager
00:56:38 <HackEgo> dowg:A dowg is a wise dog. One who uses many dowgs is known as a dowager.
00:56:44 <shachaf> Oh, I forgot about that.
00:56:55 <shachaf> That's kind of scow now that I reread it. Feel free to undo.
01:28:58 <zzo38> Now I thought of to make up "16-bit reversible chess notation".
01:29:18 <shachaf> How many bits do you need for Magic: The Gathering notation?
01:33:03 <zzo38> I don't know; it is going to be much more complicated. Including hidden information, random, making choices while another player's ability is resolving, nested mana steps, etc
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01:40:50 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54031&oldid=54027 * DMC * (+25) /* Hello World! */
01:41:41 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54032&oldid=54031 * DMC * (+2)
01:42:00 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54033&oldid=54032 * DMC * (+1) /* Hello World\n */
01:43:09 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54034&oldid=54033 * DMC * (+8) /* General Concept */
01:45:39 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54035&oldid=54034 * DMC * (+1) /* General Concept */
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02:04:52 <zzo38> Here it is: https://arin.ga/Q84gcj Do you have a comment of it please?
02:07:03 <zzo38> (You can write the resulting 16-bit number in octal. Octal is rarely helpful, but in a few cases, such as in this case, it is good to have.)
02:07:46 <boily> hezzo38. sounds very compact!
02:08:01 <boily> ("En-passant")
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02:12:02 <zzo38> "Reversible" here means that the moves can be played backward as well as forward. (This is why promotion is to a knight by default, rather than a queen.)
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15:05:07 <boily> `5 w
15:05:12 <HackEgo> 1/1:connecticut//Connecticut is a US state named in recognition of its extremely unstable communication networks. \ doesthiswork//no \ freenode//The Realm of Freenode is our homeland. The Chännel dwells in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago? \ hand//A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. \ le/arn//lern 2 spel
15:05:13 <boily> `n
15:05:13 <HackEgo> 1/1:connecticut//Connecticut is a US state named in recognition of its extremely unstable communication networks. \ doesthiswork//no \ freenode//The Realm of Freenode is our homeland. The Chännel dwells in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago? \ hand//A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. \ le/arn//lern 2 spel
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17:11:52 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54036&oldid=52739 * Conor O'Brien * (+458) /* Implementations */ add Attache
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21:02:40 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
21:03:11 <\oren\> 膚 is undrawable! TOO MANY HORZONTAL LINES
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21:17:01 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/undrawable.png <-- I guess the person who drew this variant agreed
21:19:18 <\oren\> yeah
21:19:25 <\oren\> I did something like that
21:27:15 <\oren\> 罷羞羨翁翻翼耐耗聘聴肌肖肘肝股肢肩
21:27:15 <\oren\> 肪肯胆胎胞胴脂脅脇脊脚脱腎腐腕腫腰腺膚膜
21:27:16 <\oren\> 膝膨膳臆
21:27:25 <\oren\> are the new ones I've drawn
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21:38:06 <fizzie> The one in int-e's link looks like a person with square-shaped glasses and a ponytail.
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21:47:47 <Soni> is hexchat turing-complete?
21:59:37 <zzo38> I don't know?
22:15:20 <\oren\> `unicode SVASTI
22:15:22 <HackEgo> U+0FD5 RIGHT-FACING SVASTI SIGN \ UTF-8: e0 bf 95 UTF-16BE: 0fd5 Decimal: &#4053; \ ࿕ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0FD6 LEFT-FACING SVASTI SIGN \ UTF-8: e0 bf 96 UTF-16BE: 0fd6 Decimal: &#4054; \ ࿖ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0FD7 RIGHT-FACING SVASTI SIGN WITH DOTS \ UTF
22:15:45 <\oren\> how many swastikas are there in unicode?!?!?
22:21:18 <Taneb> At least one more
22:22:26 <esowiki> [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54037&oldid=52625 * Qwertyu63 * (+3245)
22:23:50 <zzo38> Swastika comes in different orientations, with or without dots.
22:26:25 <\oren\> `unicode swastika
22:26:26 <HackEgo> No output.
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22:34:36 <zzo38> Such as, left or right orientation, in either case with or without dots, and then there is the diagonal swastika. So that are at least five kind
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22:50:52 <zzo38> And then, maybe there may be some more; do you know?
22:51:44 <LKoen> well, arguably the diagonal svastika could also have either clockwise or counterclockwise orientation, and dots or no dots
22:51:52 <LKoen> so that'd make 8 possibilities
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22:53:33 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose so, but as far as I know the only diagonal swastika used is the one Hitler used; if you are not associated with Hitler then generally don't use diagonal swastika.
22:58:52 <zzo38> (Although maybe I am wrong)
23:00:49 <zzo38> What error code should be used with errno in case of invalid file formats?
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23:30:46 <pknight> what is the best esoteric language
23:31:03 <variable> pknight: all of them
23:31:11 <variable> pknight: particularly the ones I wrote
23:31:23 <pknight> which did you write?
23:31:30 <variable> TOD
23:31:33 <LKoen> that depends on your tastes, I guess
23:34:03 <pknight> wow TOD is a real gem
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2018-02-11
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00:24:05 <wob_jonas> `pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/pbf282-smile/
00:24:05 <HackEgo> pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/pbf282-smile/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas
00:24:38 <Sgeo_> HexChat decided that the : was part of the URL
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03:09:58 <moony> `unidecode
03:09:59 <HackEgo> No output.
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04:25:54 <esowiki> [[EVM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54038 * Iovoid * (+192) Created page
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04:37:47 <wob_jonas> Sgeo_: HexChat is correct. either the pbflist script should be changed so it adds a space or double quotes or something, or it shouldn't be used with an URL, but I don't know what it should be used with then
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05:15:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * William915 * New user account
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05:20:29 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54039&oldid=54019 * William915 * (+524) /* Introductions */
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05:52:49 <zzo38> I believe you that the colon could be a part of the URL and if it tries to parse the URL, it is correct to include the colon, too. If that is improper, don't write it like that (you could put <> around the URL, is one way to distinguish it).
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06:48:20 <zzo38> Sometimes it happens, that although I can receive, I cannot send (and I can see the ping timeout message from the server) (this applies to all protocols, not just IRC); restarting the router fixes it. Do you know why?
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07:56:23 <zzo38> I tried to see how my GURPS story is displayed on Lynx. It look like it works fine; the footnotes are displayed in a reasonable way, too (I checked because I wasn't sure if it would or not).
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10:08:51 <wob_jonas> zzo38: re reversible chess move notation, the writeup doesn't tell how you encode whether castling was possible before the move
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14:21:17 <boily> `5 w
14:21:22 <HackEgo> 1/1:magic//The magic was in you all along. \ 42//42 is The Answer. Heed it. \ slough//slough /slaʊ/ or /sluː/ means a marsh; slough /slʌf/ means skin thrown off a reptile \ flagpole//A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top. \ guarantee//HackEgo is guaranteed merchantable.
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18:07:26 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Singingbanana * New user account
18:15:46 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54040&oldid=54039 * Singingbanana * (+345)
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18:16:39 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54041&oldid=54040 * Singingbanana * (-377)
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18:19:24 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54042&oldid=54041 * Singingbanana * (+126)
18:20:41 <esowiki> [[Triangularity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54043&oldid=54007 * Mr. Xcoder * (+18)
18:25:11 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54044&oldid=54042 * Singingbanana * (+33)
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20:24:26 <esowiki> [[EVM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54045&oldid=54038 * Zzo38 * (+10) stub
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20:55:14 * APic loves You all ♥
20:55:20 <APic> Just wanted to clarify that Factum. 😉
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2018-02-12
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00:32:58 <zzo38> Why some people using iPad to send email message to me, I get three question marks in place of every apostrophe?
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00:36:35 <shachaf> What are the bytes they send you, and in what encoding?
00:37:29 <zzo38> Quoted-printable UTF-8. The bytes sent are: =E2=80=99
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00:44:28 <shachaf> That looks like it encodes U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
00:50:36 <zzo38> But they aren't using it as a quotation, for one thing.
00:51:49 <shachaf> Sometimes people usee them as apostrophes for some reason.
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01:48:44 <boily> alercah: hellorcah. riichi dora dora dora dora dora dora dora dora.
01:49:36 <alercah> ow ow ow
01:53:15 <boily> mwah ah ah :D
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02:08:26 <deltab> U+2019 is Unicode's preferred apostrophe
02:08:33 <deltab> https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/quotes.html
02:09:17 <boily> that is preposterou’s.
02:43:12 <zzo38> deltab: Nevertheless is no good. Well, we figured out the problem and he fixed it; if "smart punctuation" is turned off then it will use the ASCII apostrophe instead.
02:47:41 <deltab> getting three question marks suggests the bytes are being wrongly decoded using a single-byte character encoding, instead of UTF-8
02:49:08 <deltab> does the message have a Content-Type header? that should have charset=utf-8
02:49:23 <zzo38> Yes it does says "charset=utf-8"
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02:49:51 <deltab> what are you using to read it? does it understand utf-8?
02:50:06 <zzo38> I use Heirloom-mailx
02:50:51 <zzo38> And the man page says it does understand UTF-8. Nevertheless, it is not a problem now, since it has been corrected.
02:55:21 <deltab> maybe LC_CTYPE or ttycharset has the wrong value. http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/mailx/mailx.1.html#13
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03:59:01 <esowiki> [[Forked]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54046 * MD XF * (+5744) Created page with "= Forked = Forked is an esoteric stack-based two-dimensional language with multiple IPs, based on [[/git.io/triangular|Triangular]] and written around the #Fork|fork comman..."
03:59:36 <esowiki> [[Forked]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54047&oldid=54046 * MD XF * (-19)
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04:21:39 <zzo38> I have continue writing ZPXDB, but is not quite finish writing yet. I can show you the codes now if you wanted to, in case you can find any mistakes
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04:35:42 <Sgeo__> There exists an SCP story called "Public Static Void"
04:49:03 <alercah> link?
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05:18:43 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54048&oldid=54044 * Oerjan * (+1) Fix editing error
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06:47:37 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54049 * DMC * (+2446) Created page with "Like Brainfuck - only much, much, worse. * another [[brainfuck]] variation that uses 1-bit memory cells * four commands <code> < > ( ) </code> * two interpreter commands <code..."
06:48:29 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54050&oldid=54028 * DMC * (+13) /* B */
06:49:48 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54051&oldid=54049 * DMC * (-21) /* Description */
06:50:43 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54052&oldid=54051 * DMC * (+0) /* The Commands */
06:51:31 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54053&oldid=54052 * DMC * (+0) /* Description */
06:52:22 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54054&oldid=54053 * DMC * (+0) /* The Commands */
06:54:34 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54055&oldid=54054 * DMC * (+6) /* Tedious original set-up */
06:55:08 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54056&oldid=54055 * DMC * (+0) /* Hello, World!/n */
06:55:35 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54057&oldid=54056 * DMC * (-4) /* The Commands */
06:56:36 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54058&oldid=54057 * DMC * (+1) /* Hello, World!\n */
06:57:45 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54059&oldid=54058 * DMC * (+0) /* Hello, World!\n */
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07:17:29 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54060&oldid=54029 * DMC * (+73)
07:20:33 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54061&oldid=54050 * DMC * (+52) /* H */
07:26:47 <Sgeo__> alercah, www.scp-wiki.net/public-static-void
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07:33:48 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54062&oldid=54059 * DMC * (+319)
07:39:24 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54063&oldid=54060 * DMC * (+4)
07:41:34 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54064&oldid=54062 * DMC * (+43)
07:43:54 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54065&oldid=54064 * DMC * (-8) /* Initialization process */
07:45:22 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54066&oldid=54065 * DMC * (-66) /* Initialization process */
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09:04:04 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54067&oldid=54010 * DMC * (+4) /* Hello World!\n */
09:10:18 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54068&oldid=54035 * DMC * (+95)
09:13:23 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54069&oldid=54066 * DMC * (+96)
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11:47:35 <boily> fungot: are you graphical?
11:47:35 <fungot> boily: and besides, what fiction has a true core, though:
11:47:56 <boily> fungot: all of them.
11:47:56 <fungot> boily: does bee ( the bigloo ide)? i
11:48:16 <boily> fungot: it does be do be do.
11:48:17 <fungot> boily: or test symbol before dotted-list., a russian scheme system that you'll probably find that define-macro itself is very simple
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12:32:15 <fizzie> fungot: Does a bee care?
12:32:15 <fungot> fizzie: i used a min/ max to search a string to mean.
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12:47:00 <esowiki> [[Talk:Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54070&oldid=54030 * Martin Ender * (+452) /* Source of the Wumpus quote */
12:49:19 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Grid.png]]"
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12:51:24 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Cell-coordinates.png]]"
12:53:16 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Vertex-coordinates.png]]"
12:54:43 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Ip-movement.png]]"
12:56:40 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Strafing.png]]"
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12:58:13 <esowiki> [[Wumpus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54076 * Martin Ender * (+22440) Created page with "Wumpus is a recreational, two-dimensional programming language, where the instruction pointer moves on a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_tiling triangular grid] (and..."
13:02:20 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Net-1.png]]"
13:02:40 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Net-2.png]]"
13:04:13 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Net-1-rotations-unlabeled.png]]"
13:04:40 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Martin Ender * uploaded "[[File:Net-2-rotations-unlabeled.png]]"
13:07:53 <esowiki> [[Wumpus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54081&oldid=54076 * Martin Ender * (-821)
13:10:59 <esowiki> [[User:Martin Ender]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54082&oldid=53538 * Martin Ender * (+208)
13:11:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54083&oldid=54061 * Martin Ender * (+13) /* W */
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13:12:22 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54084&oldid=53551 * Martin Ender * (+31) add Wumpus
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13:47:04 <mroman> good midafternoon
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20:29:21 <esowiki> [[MashedPotatoes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54085&oldid=52686 * Mercerenies * (+108) Added categories
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20:38:50 <olsner> fungot: are you happy?
20:38:51 <fungot> olsner: it's probably still trying to look up the 3 fnord projections. i think
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21:09:04 <zzo38> When recording the story of this GURPS game, the calendar system (used only to describe the story) is the Julian calendar, but the zero reference is the nearest leap year on or before the events of the story. Does this calendar system have a name? If not, what are you going to call it?
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22:31:45 <\oren\> what if every non-alphanumberic symbol was a sigil
22:31:59 <\oren\> indicating a different datatype
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23:21:34 <boily> fungot: nostril.
23:21:35 <fungot> boily: damn straight.
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00:22:20 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54086&oldid=54017 * Noner Kao * (-1) /* Dialect */ Fix grammar
00:22:58 <esowiki> [[TaiDoKu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54087&oldid=54086 * Noner Kao * (-6) /* References */
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01:51:56 <esowiki> [[Forked]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54088&oldid=54047 * MD XF * (+28)
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01:53:37 <alercah> Sgeo__: I'm disappointed tbh
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01:55:04 <esowiki> [[Forked]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54089&oldid=54088 * MD XF * (+140)
01:55:41 <esowiki> [[Forked]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54090&oldid=54089 * MD XF * (-63) wait what
01:56:32 <esowiki> [[Forked]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54091&oldid=54090 * MD XF * (+18)
01:59:51 <esowiki> [[Forked]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54092&oldid=54091 * MD XF * (+333)
02:14:00 <zzo38> Here is the (so far, completely untested) ZPXDB code: https://arin.ga/3S58lb https://arin.ga/azDImU
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03:53:52 <oerjan> wut
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04:07:21 <oerjan> suddenly constant
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07:41:31 <zzo38> Is there such a thing as "national 20 GOTO 10 day"?
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09:08:37 <esowiki> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54093&oldid=53916 * William915 * (+444) /* Partially Silly Ideas */
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11:41:43 <boily> `5 n
11:41:45 <HackEgo> 1/1:1/0:1/0:1/0:1/0:1/0:
11:41:53 <boily> `5 w
11:41:58 <HackEgo> 1/2:tanea//Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Cambridgd. \ \oren\//\oren\ is an optical attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... unenthickenable, eh? \ zoidberg//Zoidberg is almost definitely a distinct entity from oerjan (p = .02). \ twint-e/
11:41:59 <boily> `n
11:42:00 <HackEgo> 2/2:/twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. \ lie//Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
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12:09:00 <wob_jonas> I have a HTML/CSS question. How can I display a box (image with caption, or table) as floated to the right of the main text if the remaining text is at least a certain width, but displayed without text next to it otherwise? The box must be properly floated in the sense that below the box the text must continue in full width, this isn't a sidebar th
12:09:00 <wob_jonas> at occupies an infinitely long vertical strip.
12:10:44 <wob_jonas> This is a real problem that I haven't seen solved in most websites, because very often floated boxes become too wide so the text becomes layed out in an ugly hard to read narrow column next to them (since I use a large font and apparently many websites are designed to use tiny fonts).
12:11:37 <wob_jonas> Is my question clear?
12:16:05 <boily> wellob_jonas.
12:16:29 <boily> on the <div /> that floats, have you tried width and max-width?
12:17:19 <wob_jonas> boily: I haven't, but I believe that adjusts the width of the float itself, it won't make sure that the part of the text next to it can't degenerate to too narrow
12:18:00 <wob_jonas> Unless I guess you set it to width=50% or some such fixed percentage, in which case both the float and the rest of the text can be too narrow
12:18:07 <boily> you want that if the viewport is too narrow, then the main text next to the float should become too narrow?
12:18:18 <boily> s/should/should not/
12:18:44 <boily> a proportional width is not the way to go.
12:18:59 <boily> there's that conditional annotation I forgot the name of...
12:19:36 <wob_jonas> if the viewport is too narrow, then I want to display this as not a float, but as a separate full-width paragraph-like item
12:19:49 <boily> got it! it's @media you want: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media
12:19:50 <wob_jonas> I don't want both to become too narrow
12:20:18 <boily> on a large screen you can nicely float your figure with caption, then on a small one you can 'display: block' it and it appears all nice.
12:20:29 <wob_jonas> that is, I have a minimal width for the text and either a fixed width or an implicitly computed width for the possibly-float box
12:20:38 <wob_jonas> and if the two together would be too much, then it shouldn't be a float
12:20:51 <boily> @media is the way to do it.
12:20:51 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
12:20:55 <wob_jonas> oh, nice!
12:21:02 * boily flblblblbls at lambdabot
12:21:31 <wob_jonas> let me read that
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12:27:18 <wob_jonas> boily: thanks. that's not a perfect solution, because it can't take into account the computed value of the float, but a good approximate solution that should work in many practical cases, and certainly better than nothing
13:24:43 <esowiki> [[Stacker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54094&oldid=49196 * Conor O'Brien * (-14) /* Implementation */
13:25:17 <esowiki> [[Stacker]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54095&oldid=54094 * Conor O'Brien * (+5) /* Implementation */
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17:02:56 <int-e> ... 128 bit RSA key ... what could possibly go wrong ...
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17:27:44 <esowiki> [[Haddock]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54096&oldid=53356 * Singingbanana * (+674)
17:28:54 <esowiki> [[Haddock]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54097&oldid=54096 * Singingbanana * (-4)
17:31:23 <esowiki> [[Haddock]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54098&oldid=54097 * Singingbanana * (+13)
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17:36:55 <esowiki> [[Haddock]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54099&oldid=54098 * Singingbanana * (-27)
17:41:16 <esowiki> [[Haddock]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54100&oldid=54099 * Singingbanana * (-1)
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19:24:15 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54101 * Singingbanana * (+835) Created page with "s'''Haddock2''' is a theoretical esolang based the extended multiple lambda notation by singingbanana & Dan_zh. ==== Example ==== lambda(x.x+lambda(x.x+1)) in lambda calculu..."
19:24:35 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54102&oldid=54101 * Singingbanana * (-1)
19:25:50 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54103&oldid=54102 * Singingbanana * (+4)
19:31:02 <int-e> I love this part. "Haddock2 is Turing-complete because it applicable the Church-Turing thesis. It is a lambda language, so any program can be written with it, though the efficiency will be lower then Java."
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22:37:21 <\oren\> *boop* "how do I activate the voice recognition" *bling* "The way you just did, retard!"
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02:43:25 * oerjan is slightly disturbed by the edits completely changing Haddock
02:44:33 <oerjan> not that either version is a good language.
02:45:10 <oerjan> but the original author should confirm if they agree to them.
02:47:01 <alercah> Haddock is a language?
03:04:17 <wob_jonas> no, it's a fish
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03:38:08 <oerjan> also a language.
03:38:15 <oerjan> or three
03:38:42 <APic> Four.
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11:41:30 <boily> @massages-loud
11:41:30 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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13:29:46 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54104 * Singingbanana * (+265) Created page with "Singingbanana is an annoying programmer who no one talks to. He talks 24/7 about lambda calculus(that's why he wears the greek alphabet t-shirt!). He created the whole Hadoock..."
13:30:11 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54105&oldid=54104 * Singingbanana * (-1)
13:30:24 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54106&oldid=54105 * Singingbanana * (+1)
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17:11:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54107&oldid=54083 * Dehodson * (+13) Added TinCan, as I forgot to do so 7 years ago
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18:30:24 <int-e> . o O ( The Invisible Hand guides the monopolists towards maximizing their own profits. )
18:32:13 <int-e> `? gdp
18:32:29 <int-e> oh.
18:32:38 <int-e> fungot: what happened to HackEgo?
18:32:38 <fungot> int-e: because it's pretty hard
18:32:52 <int-e> fungot: oh, was it painful?
18:32:52 <fungot> int-e: eval ' ( 0="foo" 0)) ( square b) ( something-else a ( blah b) blah))) 1)
18:33:13 <int-e> fungot: I'll take that as a yes
18:33:14 <fungot> int-e: wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a plt http client software related dos.
18:35:24 <shachaf> that wouldn't surprise me one bit, fungot
18:35:24 <fungot> shachaf: i don't think the author has something to do
18:35:34 <shachaf> exactly
18:36:16 <shachaf> int-e: hint-e
18:36:51 <shachaf> Is there a standard notion of the inverse of a tensor of any type? How do you compute it?
18:36:52 <int-e> shichif
18:37:34 <int-e> . o O ( I know the answer for square matrices... )
18:41:32 <shachaf> What about (2,0) tensors?
18:41:49 <shachaf> I think the inverse of a (2,0) tensor is a (0,2) tensor.
18:42:18 <shachaf> And maybe numerically it even has the same values as an inverse matrix.
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19:33:13 <int-e> fizzie: btw, HackEgo is absent.
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20:08:36 <RusselsTeapot> I'm working on a esoteric language named sofun for a project in university, which essentially is a stack based functional language in reverse polish notation. Functions take arguments and return a stack that is integrated in the main stack where the function and its argument got popped. Executing a program means evaluating a main stack and substituting all the functions and their arguments with their return stack: '2 3 +' is 5
20:08:36 <RusselsTeapot> because '+' takes 2 and 3 and returns 5. Because of Reverse polish notation all syntax symbols needed are ":" for assigning functions and "?" for Branches. Do you all think this idea has enough potential for me to try and write a esolangwiki article on it with my mediocre english skills?
20:09:46 <Taneb> I think you should go for it!
20:09:57 <Taneb> I can guarantee there'll have been worse
20:10:25 <RusselsTeapot> to get an idea of the syntax, this is the solution of the first taks of projecteuler.net, "Find the sum of all the multiples of 3 and 5 below 1000":
20:10:27 <RusselsTeapot> num sums ? 1000 num = : 0 ? num 3 % ~ num 5 % ~ | : num num 1 + sums + ? num 1 + sums
20:11:13 <RusselsTeapot> i admit, its not really readable. But hey, its esoteric, it doesnt have to
20:11:26 <Taneb> Have you seen FALSE?
20:11:46 <RusselsTeapot> nope, gimme a sec
20:12:39 <int-e> RusselsTeapot: I can't see you!
20:13:45 <Taneb> int-e, that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't there
20:13:46 <RusselsTeapot> hm, sounds interesting. It isnt as functional as my approach though and thus needs more syntax it seems
20:14:02 <Taneb> Yeah, you fall somewhere between it and Underload I think
20:14:12 <RusselsTeapot> @int-e: In the irc-channel? idk why
20:14:13 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
20:15:29 <RusselsTeapot> oh, sry. im not that used to irc. Answers go without @, i know
20:15:35 <int-e> RusselsTeapot: I can believe that you're there. But my instruments aren't powerful enough to detect you.
20:15:40 <int-e> :P
20:16:05 <RusselsTeapot> :)
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20:19:20 <RusselsTeapot> Taneb: i didn't know underload either, seems like i have much to learn.
20:21:59 <RusselsTeapot> Designing languages, writing interpreters and finally seeing the first test programs work is really cool. Maybe I'll do some of the not yet implemented languages on esolangs next. I've got a lot to learn, I think
20:23:18 <RusselsTeapot> oh, by the way. My code is online. The basic functionality is mostly done, but all the comments and the specification is still in german :( https://github.com/Rieselhilfe/sofun
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21:12:56 <fizzie> int-e: Hmm. No answer from CaC.
21:34:34 <shachaf> HackEgo is still running on CaC?
21:34:52 <shachaf> i,i well, not anymore
21:46:58 <int-e> shachaf: anyway I don't really understand tensors, not even the (1,1) kind (they're bilinear functions. but that's also true for (2,0) and (0,2) tensors) I don't know how to turn the bilinear function of a (1,1) tensor into a linear map. So... meh.
21:48:28 <int-e> But I'm pretty sure that they also won't help me with applying Rice's theorem so I guess that's okay :P
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21:51:06 <shachaf> What are you applying Rice's theorem to?
21:51:27 <shachaf> A (1,1) tensor is e.g
21:51:30 <int-e> I want undecidability of the halting problem for Minsky machines. I have it for computable functions.
21:51:33 <shachaf> Er
21:51:58 <int-e> thanks to https://www.isa-afp.org/entries/Recursion-Theory-I.html
21:52:13 <shachaf> f : V -o ((V -o F) -o F)
21:52:48 <shachaf> I think you can turn that into a linear map pretty easily hth
21:53:15 <int-e> ah
21:53:21 <int-e> parentheses help
21:53:29 <int-e> the lollypops don't :P
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21:53:36 <int-e> lollipops
21:54:31 <shachaf> They just mean a linear map.
21:55:36 <int-e> Wait, are you conflating "linear" and "linear"? Is that standard?
21:56:04 <shachaf> You mean linear logic and linear algebra?
21:56:05 <int-e> fungot: please try to make sense!
21:56:06 <fungot> int-e: for some of my contributions as well,
21:56:07 <int-e> shachaf: yes
21:56:14 <shachaf> I didn't invent this usage.
21:58:11 <int-e> Anyway, writing out V* that way helped, thanks.
21:58:53 <shachaf> I'm typing on a phone so this is pretty slow
21:59:41 <shachaf> The point is, the "Hessian" is a (0,2) tensor, not a (1,1) tensor
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22:15:25 <Taneb> int-e, I think I remember reading that it works out there's some sort of correspondence between linear logic and linear algebra
22:18:16 <shachaf> I'd like to know more about the details of that
22:18:36 <shachaf> Is it just that they're both whatever monoidal categories?
22:18:42 <shachaf> Probably more than that.
22:19:24 <Taneb> Sadly I can't remember details
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22:22:10 <wob_jonas> `ping hi
22:22:45 <APic>
22:37:02 <RusselsTeapot> is there a list of typical example programs like "hello world" or "99 Bottles" that show specific features of programming languages?
22:37:47 <int-e> Meh, I want a stronger (and perhaps slightly nonstandard) version of Rice. Oh well, not today.
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23:22:14 <fizzie> HackEgo: Oh, you're back.
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23:40:21 <wob_jonas> RussellsTeapot: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages and see the links I put to the start
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2018-02-15
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01:48:53 <wob_jonas> RussellsTeapot: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages and see the links I put to the start
01:50:03 <shachaf> "Helelo world program in esoteric languages" is the name of my esolang tdnh
01:50:49 <wob_jonas> shachaf: don't worry, we've had to do disambiguations because of identically named programming languages already.
01:51:14 <shachaf> Also my keyboard keeps typing double letters like that.
01:51:19 <wob_jonas> sometimes it's a non-esoteric programming language or tool with the same name as an esolang, occasionally it's two esolangs
01:51:32 <shachaf> Not immedaiely but with a small delay, so a second letter goes between them and it looks like I'm terrible at typing.
01:51:43 <shachaf> "immediately" -- no excuse for that one.
01:52:09 <wob_jonas> x86 is the funniest
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01:52:34 <wob_jonas> you should probably replace that keyboard
01:52:47 <shachaf> It's a laptop keyboard.
01:52:59 <wob_jonas> plug in an external keyboard then
01:53:27 <shachaf> i,i Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 2: A Cut Above Download
01:54:37 <wob_jonas> shachaf: these days malwares masking as film downloads say "full movie" instead of "real fast" for some reason
01:54:57 <wob_jonas> which is nice, because almost no legitimate site uses the phrase "full movie"
01:55:08 <wob_jonas> so you can spot it as spam easily
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05:48:36 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54108&oldid=54048 * ChromaticiT * (+182) /* Introductions */
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07:08:02 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Wright * New user account
07:10:36 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54109&oldid=54108 * Wright * (+246) /* Introductions */
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07:39:59 <esowiki> [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54110&oldid=53930 * Wright * (+2325) /* "A good GUI interpreter for Black" */ new section
07:40:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54111&oldid=54110 * Wright * (+82) Forgot signature
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09:54:46 <int-e> `thanks HackEgo
09:54:55 <HackEgo> Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo.
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11:23:41 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54112&oldid=54103 * Singingbanana * (+211)
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11:47:22 <boily> `5 w
11:47:28 <HackEgo> 1/2:alice//Alice doesn't want to go among mad people. \ sparse matrix algorithm//Sparse matrix algorithms are a trivial special case of non-sparse matrix algorithms, by conjugating with the sparsification operation. \ le/arn//lern 2 spel \ ramen//拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。 \ sewerjan//sewerjan is oerjan's extre
11:50:49 <boily> `n
11:50:50 <HackEgo> 2/2:mely poor twin.
11:54:12 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f -iname '*rjan*'
11:54:13 <HackEgo> wisdom/œrjan \ wisdom/אrjan \ wisdom/sewerjan \ wisdom/boorjan \ wisdom/ørjan \ wisdom/örjan \ wisdom/typoerjan \ wisdom/oerjan
11:54:27 <boily> `? œrjan
11:54:28 <HackEgo> ​œrjan is oerjan and ørjan's superhero third cousin (once removed) from Québec. He got his cheesy powers by falling into a giant poutine bowl.
11:54:38 <boily> `? boorjan
11:54:39 <HackEgo> boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin.
11:55:03 <boily> `? örjan
11:55:04 <HackEgo> ​Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters.
11:55:21 <boily> such a heartwarming family.
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12:25:29 <int-e> punctüal?
12:27:14 <boily> ïnẗ-ëllö. puncture?
12:27:14 <int-e> Hmm, swearjan
12:27:32 * int-e misread "sewerjan" and is not wondering whether oerjan ever swears.
12:28:10 <int-e> `quote alice
12:28:11 <HackEgo> 923) <fungot> but when she saw him fnord and fnord. and then there's the fnord, as well as fnord reading sauce with fish, or fnord, that alice quite fnord for it hadn't spoken before.
12:28:37 <int-e> I have regrets.
12:28:54 <boily> everything's a fnord.
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20:45:52 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Truttle1 * uploaded "[[File:Uyjhmn n IDE.png]]"
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21:14:58 <esowiki> [[Kipple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54114&oldid=53670 * Fergusq * (+50) wayback
21:15:34 <esowiki> [[Kipple]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54115&oldid=54114 * Fergusq * (+0)
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21:56:42 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is late.
21:56:45 <int-e> (amazing)
21:57:15 <int-e> oh it's not on the channel
21:57:52 <int-e> fizzie: !
21:58:44 <int-e> > reverse "gnp.js" -- who'd have thought...
21:58:46 <lambdabot> "sj.png"
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21:58:58 <int-e> (cf. https://securelist.com/zero-day-vulnerability-in-telegram/83800/ )
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22:18:36 <\oren\> int-e: stupid unicode
22:21:00 <\oren\> unicode has a lot of incomplete provisions for use in practical software systems
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22:24:09 <fizzie> int-e: That happens sometimes. I think it's because the autojoin is just "sleep 10 ; echo JOIN ...".
22:25:34 <shachaf> `dowg password
22:25:36 <\oren\> like there should be a specification that invisible characters should be visibly displayed in particular circumstances
22:25:49 <HackEgo> 11345:2018-02-15 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is late. \ 11291:2017-12-31 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is early. \ 11251:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all beliefs (but not time zones) \ 11250:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all be
22:26:36 <\oren\> such as in filenames, source code/teletype text, and urls
22:32:29 <int-e> `unidecode oοоᴏꙩꙫꙮ
22:32:30 <HackEgo> ​[U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+03BF GREEK SMALL LETTER OMICRON] [U+043E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O] [U+1D0F LATIN LETTER SMALL CAPITAL O] [U+A669 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER MONOCULAR O] [U+A66B CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BINOCULAR O] [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
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22:35:36 <\oren\> theall those look different to me
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23:57:11 <boily> fungot: nostril.
23:57:12 <fungot> boily: and all programs print nothingness, since any cryptography algorithm i could devise would be made _considerably_ more complicated with ordinary shift reset.)
23:57:48 <shachaf> fungot makes an excellent point
23:57:48 <fungot> shachaf: char fnord is identical to char fnord ( char, size_t fnord) as to what you're looking for server hardware
2018-02-16
00:18:14 <quintopia> helloily
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00:27:54 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA!
00:29:40 <oerjan> helloily, hellopia
00:34:31 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
00:38:02 <oerjan> <int-e> `learn The password of the month is late. <-- what, is it?
00:38:11 <oerjan> `dowg password
00:38:19 <HackEgo> 11345:2018-02-15 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is late. \ 11291:2017-12-31 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is early. \ 11251:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all beliefs (but not time zones) \ 11250:2017-12-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is equally offensive to all be
00:38:30 <oerjan> so it is.
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03:31:19 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54116 * Truttle1 * (+4346) Uyjhmn n is a programming language that rushes the user while having an annoying syntax that takes forever to type
03:32:40 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54117&oldid=54107 * Truttle1 * (+15)
03:33:57 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54118&oldid=54116 * Truttle1 * (+26)
03:35:24 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54119&oldid=54118 * Truttle1 * (+197) /* Video */
03:35:42 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54120&oldid=54119 * Truttle1 * (+44) /* Video */
03:36:37 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54121&oldid=54120 * Truttle1 * (+669)
03:36:57 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54122&oldid=54121 * Truttle1 * (+21) /* Examples */
03:40:24 <esowiki> [[Uyjhmn n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54123&oldid=54122 * Truttle1 * (+29) /* Commands */
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04:53:56 <oerjan> rcm888: *cough*
04:54:23 <rcm888> oerjan: ye??
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05:00:59 <rcm888> oerjan: how would you make it?
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05:14:05 <oerjan> rcm888: oh, never mind. i saw all those quits and joins but didn't notice it was several minutes ago.
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05:21:05 <esowiki> [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54124&oldid=53677 * Ivan * (+81) /* Befunge-93 */
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06:14:05 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54125&oldid=54067 * DMC * (+25) /* External resources */
06:14:26 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54126&oldid=54125 * DMC * (-1) /* External resources */
06:15:09 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54127&oldid=54069 * DMC * (+24) /* External resources */
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11:15:27 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54128 * Singingbanana * (+2032) Created page with "''''Borsch'''' is named after a Russian/Ukrainian soup which consists of SMETANA, BEETROOT and others. SMETANA and BEETROOT are in caps as they are programming languages mixed..."
11:17:56 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54129&oldid=54128 * Singingbanana * (-9)
11:18:57 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54130&oldid=54129 * Singingbanana * (-4)
11:20:43 <int-e> Oh, poor щ.
11:22:07 <shachaf> i'm p. sure щ is some kind of prank letter
11:27:59 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54131&oldid=54130 * Singingbanana * (+342)
11:28:41 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54132&oldid=54131 * Singingbanana * (+8)
11:29:47 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54133&oldid=54132 * Singingbanana * (+3)
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11:32:32 <int-e> shachaf: I'm pretty sure it's the last letter in борщ
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11:32:49 <int-e> Also pretty sure we practiced it quite a lot in school.
11:33:40 <int-e> But in any case, I understand that lazy people would make that into borsht, with whatever spelling. But leaving out the t as well goes a bit far.
11:34:42 <shachaf> ш is a "voiceless palato-alveolar fricative" and щ is a "voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative"
11:34:59 <shachaf> they sound p. much the same to me
11:35:05 <shachaf> p. sure it's a prank tdnh
11:37:38 <int-e> щ is basically pronounced as шч, where ч is pronounced тш :-P
11:38:55 <shachaf> The audio on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_fricative doesn't sound like that to me.
11:40:46 <int-e> Well, you're at least two levels of abstraction deep...
11:50:23 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bor%C8%99_(bran) may explain some of the confusion
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12:08:16 <esowiki> [[Ende]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54134 * Fergusq * (+13980) created page
12:09:24 <esowiki> [[Ende]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54135&oldid=54134 * Fergusq * (+59) categories
12:10:46 <esowiki> [[Ende]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54136&oldid=54135 * Fergusq * (+0)
12:13:38 <esowiki> [[User:Fergusq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54137&oldid=53780 * Fergusq * (+159) added tampio and ende
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12:25:45 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54138&oldid=54133 * Singingbanana * (+29)
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12:30:33 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54139&oldid=54117 * Fergusq * (+11) /* E */ added ende
12:31:17 <esowiki> [[Ende]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54140&oldid=54136 * Fergusq * (-2) /* Cat program */ fixed cat program
12:49:56 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54141&oldid=54106 * Singingbanana * (+543)
12:50:38 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54142&oldid=54141 * Singingbanana * (-60)
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13:23:05 <myname> anybody an idea for an interesting topic for a master thesis?
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13:41:53 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Plokmijnuhby * New user account
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14:44:26 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54143&oldid=54109 * Plokmijnuhby * (+212) /* Introductions */ Added plokmijnuhby.
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15:11:44 <esowiki> [[Hieroglyphics]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54144 * Plokmijnuhby * (+549) Created page with "''Not to be confused with [[Heiroglyphic]].'' Heiroglyphics is an esolang based on Ancient Egyptian heiroglyphics. It focuses less on the actual symbols the Egyptians used an..."
15:13:35 <esowiki> [[Hieroglyphics]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54145&oldid=54144 * Plokmijnuhby * (-549) Blanked the page
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19:34:02 <wob_jonas> `ping are you back, HackEgo?
19:34:03 <HackEgo> pong
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20:20:52 <wob_jonas> I bought a ceiling lamp for the bathroom. In the side of the box, where the address of the distributing company is displayed, the town name "Dunaújváros" is hyphenated incorrectly, as "Dun-aújváros". Do you suppose there's a bug tracker where I can open an issue for that?
20:21:09 <wob_jonas> They offer five years of warranty, so they should fix that if I complain, right?
20:23:27 <wob_jonas> The box does give a webpage, let me look there.
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20:26:16 <wob_jonas> Found a product page: http://www.eglo.com/hungary/TERMEKEK/Main-Collections/Belteri-lampak/FUEVA-1/96168
20:26:49 <wob_jonas> I don't see a public bug tracker though.
20:36:03 <\oren\> lol https://imgur.com/1hkSZNS
20:37:42 <APic>
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22:08:49 <wob_jonas> Wait what? Abstruse Goose has done updates. I'm quite sure http://abstrusegoose.com/575 was the last strip for ages, possibly for multiple years, but now there are two after that
22:08:58 <wob_jonas> s/two/four/
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23:14:49 <boily> `5 w
23:14:54 <HackEgo> 1/2:case//English has two cases, upper and lower. Upper case agrees with the verb in person and number. \ wisdome//The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom. Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere". \ amortized//An
23:14:54 <boily> `n
23:14:55 <HackEgo> 2/2: amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember. \ aah//ambiguous acronym here \ hice//Hice is the plural form of house.
23:17:14 <FireFly> `w
23:17:16 <HackEgo> synergy//Synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity.
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2018-02-17
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01:24:42 <shachaf> `4 w
01:24:50 <HackEgo> 1/1:hth//hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. \ dingas//The sound of a Baltic bell. It chimes like potatoes. \ twh//twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. \ cocoon//Cocoon was built by the fal'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse.
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02:06:45 <boily> `dowg cocoon
02:06:54 <HackEgo> 9026:2016-09-09 <fizzïe> learn Cocoon was built by the fal\'Cie, and floats above Gran Pulse.
02:07:05 <boily> fizzie: fizziello. eh?
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02:21:14 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
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02:42:42 <oerjan> bod aftenily.
02:43:22 <shachaf> what are you doing
02:43:28 <shachaf> #esoteric is a portmanteau-free zone
02:43:39 <boily> helloochaf. since when?
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09:01:25 <zzo38> Have you examined my ZPXDB program yet?
09:12:45 <Vorpal> hi
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13:32:53 <Soni> has anyone implemented brainfuck in pure forth?
13:33:25 <Soni> (where the brainfuck commands need to be space-separated)
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14:39:47 <esowiki> [[Haddock]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54146&oldid=54100 * Singingbanana * (+75)
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17:24:46 <esowiki> [[Haddock2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54147&oldid=54112 * Singingbanana * (+19)
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19:49:41 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Alcofrisbas * New user account
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2018-02-18
00:00:56 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:13:43 <boily> bonsϿirjan.
00:16:02 <int-e> `"
00:16:03 <HackEgo> 10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 144) <fungot> ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic
00:16:38 <int-e> dang, 144 made me laugh
00:20:46 <oerjan> bood evenily.
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00:26:11 <FireFly> ´"
00:26:13 <FireFly> er
00:26:15 <FireFly> `"
00:26:16 <HackEgo> 837) <kmc> so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float); \ 1138) <Taneb> Well, get him <Phantom_Hoover> her! <Taneb> Well, get her <Taneb> Hang on <Taneb> Since when is Liam Neeson a "her"/ <Phantom_Hoover> oh i thought you meant my dad's godmother
00:26:27 <FireFly> `'
00:26:27 <HackEgo> 460) <Phantom_Hoover> On further reflection, I think I did manage to miss winter and spring altogether. <Phantom_Hoover> This does explain the goblin siege I had in autumn.
00:26:30 <FireFly> cute
00:29:31 <boily> `’
00:29:31 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ’: not found
00:33:39 <fizzie> fungot: Is your mouth a good heuristic?
00:33:39 <fungot> fizzie: i've seen it
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00:43:09 <boily> fungot, the Heuristical Holistic Sentient Fungot.
00:43:10 <fungot> boily: yes i believe in your letrec example, a third is very close to normal scheme. maybe i'm missing a way to cast a lot of programming concepts which are not
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02:25:33 <moony> fungot's mouth is a good PRNG seed
02:25:34 <fungot> moony: are therer any good scheme should be " rube on conveyor belts
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08:25:52 <wob_jonas> monocular o => https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/process
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13:37:02 <boily> `5 w
13:37:10 <HackEgo> 1/2:amortized//An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember. \ wob_jonas//wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks. \ functor//Functors are morphisms in the category of small categories. \ twitter//Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably). \ shamtag//A shamtag is something that you durch in ord
13:37:12 <boily> `n
13:37:12 <HackEgo> 2/2:er to make it flome.
14:24:13 <int-e> `dowg shamtag
14:24:21 <HackEgo> 8211:2016-05-30 <tsweẗt> learn A shamtag is something that you durch in order to make it flome.
14:27:36 <int-e> Well, I /guess/ tswett was training a letter based language model for english.
14:30:59 <int-e> Ah, confirmed. It was a neural network. http://esolangs.org/logs/2016-05-29.txt has a discussion in the morning.
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15:47:06 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, that was nice. I also trained a letter-based statistical model (no neural net) once, on Hungarian text, and quoted in this channel a few lines it output at some point.
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17:00:00 <int-e> . o O ( fingernails evolved so that people won't cut their fingers all the time )
17:01:56 <wob_jonas> int-e: no way. there haven't been enough time since we've been washing sharp steel knives hidden by soap bubbles in a kitchen sink for that to matter for evolution.
17:03:31 <int-e> wob_jonas: there's no way to be sure!
17:04:02 <int-e> (alternatively, then this is proof for Intelligent Design)
17:04:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: there sure is. metal items like kitchen sinks and knife blades would be preserved well enough that we'd find archaeological evidence
17:04:33 <wob_jonas> If such things existed for more than twelve thousand years, we'd know about it.
17:06:08 <wob_jonas> You could argue that the fingernails have some role in stopping papercuts, and that people have had paper for much longer than we know, but all the old paper have decomposed and eaten by fungi.
17:06:49 <int-e> wob_jonas: You know, the "the world was created 4000 years ago" world view is quite consistent.
17:07:22 <wob_jonas> int-e: no, we do have archaeological evidence that civilization is more than 4000 years old
17:07:47 <wob_jonas> but not more than 12000 years old, give or take a few thousand years, and depending on how exactly you define civilization
17:08:18 <wob_jonas> Unless you believe the legends of an old magical civilization erasing its existance from the very time stream in a huge magical accident of course.
17:08:36 <int-e> The only thing that is stopping me from actually believing it is that I don't think that anybody would actually go through all the trouble of painstakingly faking all this evidence.
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17:51:07 <int-e> Ah so it's not just me who wonders how people actually train their (deep) neural networks. Even the experts don't know: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/02/missing-data-hinder-replication-artificial-intelligence-studies
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18:08:59 <int-e> Yay, I now have actual undecidability (and recursive inseparability) results for Minsky machines formalized in Isabelle :)
18:09:19 <APic> yay
18:09:43 <wob_jonas> int-e: oh, I think you had mentioned you were working on it
18:09:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: how did you prove that they're undecidable?
18:10:12 <wob_jonas> did you write a self-interprter?
18:10:34 <wob_jonas> or an interpreter of an, um, simpler undecidable language?
18:10:47 <APic> =6.9=
18:10:51 <APic> *purrrrrr* 😸
18:11:06 <APic> Both Spirals lead to epic Success, probably. ☺
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18:19:19 <int-e> wob_jonas: I didn't have to write any interpreter myself. I basically showed that every r.e. set is recognized by a Minsky machine; I'm building on top of a formalization that has a universal function for r.e. sets. http://downthetypehole.de/paste/jCpbJsVP has some hilights (incomplete and no proofs)
18:19:29 <APic> yay
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18:20:45 <wob_jonas> int-e: I see. so it's the latter, you write an interpreter for some other language, the one used to define recursive enumarable sets in that formalization?
18:21:25 <APic> Hi sleffy
18:21:31 <int-e> wob_jonas: Of course there is an interpreter in there, namely a Minsky machine that recognizes (some preimage of) that universal r.e. set. But I have no clue what it looks like, it's not a constructive proof.
18:22:36 <int-e> (it's also clear how to make this constructive *in* principle, but Isabelle/HOL is a classical logic)
18:22:36 <wob_jonas> int-e: oh wait, you're right, it needn't be an interpreter written in Minsky, but only a compiler from the other language to Minsky, the compiler itself implemented in Isabelle
18:23:29 <sleffy> APic, hello!
18:23:34 <APic> Me-ow!
18:23:44 <sleffy> Hel-lo!
18:24:14 <APic> Yoooooo-hooo!
18:24:15 <wob_jonas> hello
18:25:58 <int-e> wob_jonas: so what I'm saying is that this "compiler" from the other language (r.e. sets) to Minksy doesn't actually have to be constructive.
18:26:13 <wob_jonas> int-e: ok
18:26:19 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure what "constructive" means there
18:26:37 <wob_jonas> or more like have a hard time imagining a non-constructive implementation
18:26:50 <APic> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnTINa7818c
18:26:56 <int-e> no choice, no law of excluded middle.
18:27:12 <wob_jonas> hmm
18:27:12 <int-e> wob_jonas: Well I have a ton of lemmas stating "there exists a Minsky machine M such that..."
18:30:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: ok, now I'm thinking of the ending of the Smullyan mockingbird book, musing about whether there's a bird that can solve the halting problem
18:30:43 <int-e> wob_jonas: and while if you looked at the proofs you'd find that they're all constructive, there is no direct way of getting at a compilation function.
18:31:39 <wob_jonas> int-e: is there an evaluator function, one that can also recognize invalid programs, for the original language?
18:32:43 <int-e> yes. there's a nat_to_ce_set :: nat => nat set. (I suppose invalid programs become the empty set? I haven't checked.)
18:33:00 <int-e> ("ce" = computably enumerable = recursively enumerable)
18:33:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: ok
18:35:30 <int-e> (Recursive inseparability is a 1953 innovation that I learned about two years ago... I really wonder why it isn't taught in every computability theory course.)
18:36:29 <APic> Probably because Morse-Code is not taught in Schools.
18:36:32 <APic> ;=P
18:37:20 <wob_jonas> what
18:37:37 <int-e> Prime example: (assuming consistency) The set of provable formulas and the set of disprovable formulas in Peano Arithmetic are recursively inseparable: there is no decidable set that contains all the provable formulas and none of the disprovable ones. The beauty is that this doesn't say anything about the formulas that are neither provable or disprovable...
18:37:43 <wob_jonas> fungot, can you solve the halting problem?
18:37:43 <fungot> wob_jonas: well, when you define cond, that is.))
18:38:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, I think I heard that theorem
18:39:31 <int-e> A more useful example are Turing Machines that can accept or reject, or run forever; the set of TM configurations that halt in an accept stated, and the set of TM configurations that halt in a reject state, are recursively inseparable.
18:39:47 <int-e> s/stated/state/
18:40:03 <APic> 😸
18:40:33 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, that's more or less equivalent
18:42:34 <int-e> A less obvious example are PCP problems that have a finite solution, and PCP problems that have no infinite solution. (For example, (1,11) has the infinite solution (1*,1*) arising from appending (1,11) to itself over and over again)
18:45:16 <wob_jonas> Hmm.
18:47:49 <APic> Yes?
18:48:01 <APic> Good old Infinity. ☺
18:48:45 <int-e> Incidentally, that is what I really want to have...
18:49:16 <APic> ,o0(Toeoeoe-roeoeoeoe)
18:49:35 <int-e> And Minsky machines are my intermediate model of computation.
18:49:35 <APic> All those Coincidents...
18:49:40 <APic> Good old Marv
18:49:44 <int-e> `coins
18:49:48 <HackEgo> poridgecoin s17057034167130coin landcoin contumcoin ointecoin audacoin idecoin ]coin gruptorcoin xxvcoin jumpcoin deltapecoin hevnarylangtheonchurchwaynomialcoin xivcoin spielcoin whittlecoin akcrcoin angcoin atheteembertyscraftermdcoin itfcoin
18:50:34 <APic> lol
18:50:50 <int-e> APic: you spoke of coin-cidents?
18:50:58 <APic> Dunno
18:51:19 <int-e> `coins
18:51:20 <HackEgo> wikipwritoncoin gubacoin nhiucoin obfecoin aheuiculus'scoin obftecoin minlinksencoin bolcoin chologifruincoin parcoin archwaycoin brocarmcoin musicontroncoin madncoin eningcoin persetcoin autcoin surangcoin unbocoin turingcoin
18:51:28 <APic> yay
18:51:35 <int-e> I think those are better.
18:51:49 <APic> Seems so.
18:51:55 <wob_jonas> turingcoin, archwaycoin
18:52:06 <APic> B-)
18:52:16 <int-e> `words
18:52:18 <HackEgo> keili
18:56:41 <APic> Kewl
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21:03:06 <zzo38> So far I have programs reading three vector formats: Fuun RNA, Janome Embroidery Format, and DRAWX vector format. I did not write the program that can convert a raster picture into such format, because I do not know much about cross-stitch (or about embroidery in general) to do so. Do you know?
21:07:57 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I don't, but I think some teams have effectively developped a raster image to Fuun DNA compiler to solve the contest.
21:08:32 <wob_jonas> It's tricky because it's a deliberately esoteric vector format.
21:09:52 <zzo38> Yes, although in that case you don't need any stitches, at least. Still, it is perhaps something to be seen; I have not seen such a thing
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22:26:46 <zzo38> Do you like the GLOGG container format I made up? It is similar to Ogg format, although the header is normally only 22 bytes long (but can vary), and there is a few other functions included (all optional, though), and it uses a different mechanism to identify codecs (they are identified by a UUID, given as part of the control data, although the control data is optional anyways). Converting Ogg->GLOGG should not be difficult; any existing file shou
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22:33:13 <zzo38> So, any codec suitable for Ogg will be suitable with this new format too, although it will help to define the UUID for each such codec.
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22:50:11 <int-e> zzo38: how many of your file format extensions have, you know, become standards?
22:52:15 <shachaf> i,i how may of your oil companies have, you know, become Standard?
22:56:34 <zzo38> int-e: None as far as I know. I don't know about future, though; things in future is difficult to predict.
22:56:59 <shachaf> That's why I predict things in the past.
23:01:31 <zzo38> Did you read the document? (I have recently added a "primary bit" to the control flags. Like the rest of the control data, it is optional.)
23:02:21 <int-e> . o O ( of course not? )
23:03:43 <zzo38> The document is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/glogg
23:03:59 <zzo38> Afterward, I can make up another file with the description of the caption codec.
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23:05:42 <zzo38> Now you can mention your complaint about anything I may have made a mistake, or other kind of complaints or questions.
23:07:35 <shachaf> int-e does not like this
23:09:15 <int-e> I've skimmed the document. The only motivation I see is that a person naming themselves zzo38 "don't like the way [OGG] uses to determine codecs."... presumably GLOGG improves on this.
23:09:40 <int-e> My bet is that nobody will care. For now I can give one example.
23:10:06 <int-e> (Sorry, I mean nobody besides the author, I'll give zzo38 that much credit.)
23:13:16 <zzo38> O, OK.
23:15:54 <zzo38> However, it does do some other stuff too; it does not only provide an alternative way to determine codecs. You can also specify relation of streams, and index marks, and a few of the things from Ogg Skeleton (although some are omitted because they should properly belong in separate metadata streams).
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23:18:59 <int-e> zzo38: I think that you should present the problems you're perceiving with the state of the art (say, the Ogg format) up front. It takes time to try to reverse engineer the problem from the solution (which tends to also require understanding the original), and I for one am not willing to invest that time in order to figure out whether I even care about the problem at all. OTOH, if you manage to...
23:19:05 <int-e> ...convince me that there *is* a problem worth solving, then I'd be much happier to try to understand the proposed solution.
23:19:40 <zzo38> OK
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23:22:10 <zzo38> One problem is that they fail to specify how multiple streams are related to each other. Sometimes this isn't important, but sometimes it will be relevant. That's why it is an optional feature.
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23:25:16 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54148&oldid=54143 * Alcofrisbas * (+216) /* Introductions */
23:26:07 <int-e> shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P
23:26:25 <shachaf> Higher than your usual?
23:26:35 <int-e> who cares?
23:26:52 <shachaf> `? int-e
23:26:53 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
23:29:00 <int-e> hmm hipster game, was that Braid or the Witless?
23:29:29 <int-e> I guess I don't care about that either.
23:29:52 <shachaf> That sentence doesn't look very Swedish...
23:30:02 <shachaf> `dowg int-e
23:30:10 <HackEgo> 10861:2017-05-03 <shachäf> le//rn_append int-e//Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. \ 10125:2017-01-12 <oerjän> slwd int-e//s;.$;, men han gillar dissonans.; \ 9127:2016-09-30 <oerjän> learn_append int-e Hen gillar inte f\xc3\xa4rger. \ 7535:2016-04-25 <oerjän> learn_append int-e Hen st\xc3\xa5r f\xc3\xb6r sig sj\xc3\xa4lv. \ 7232:2016-03-14
23:30:19 <shachaf> ?!
23:30:44 <shachaf> It was SSR.
23:30:48 <int-e> Oh.
23:31:00 <shachaf> 10:22:36 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr.png <-- oh nein, ich habe schon wieder ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. (aber nicht zum Vollpreis, gibt grad ein humble bundle)
23:31:19 <int-e> but note the "schon wieder"
23:31:44 <int-e> ("yet again", I guess)
23:32:52 <shachaf> Did you kauft any Hipster-Spielen since then?
23:34:21 <zzo38> Multimedia container formats other than Ogg do exist, but most of them are too complicated it look like.
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23:42:34 <int-e> shachaf: Well tbqh I don't even know what a "hipster game" is... I've seen the label in a couple of game reviews. I think I had found some top-ten of hipster games somewhere just before I wrote that...
23:43:29 <int-e> To me it sounds like "is being recommended on linkedin" ;-)
23:44:21 <int-e> Regardless, bedtime.
23:46:22 <zzo38> Now I added a few other functions too, such as reverse relations (useful for captions), and passthrough mode (useful for playing back stereovision videos on non-stereovision implementations without causing additional problems), although these are not the only uses of these functions; they may be used for whatever you find them useful for.
23:47:57 <int-e> shachaf: But if you want to know about games I regretted buying recently, I'd name "What remains of Edith Finch" and "Oxenfree".
23:48:14 <shachaf> Wwhy did you regret buying them?
23:48:35 <shachaf> Maybe you would like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFlG7KN6OqY
23:50:42 <int-e> Both are essentially linear (the former more so than the latter)... the latter is ultimately about relationships among a bunch of teenagers, otherwise it's just running around finding various spots on a map.
23:51:23 <int-e> Did I say bedtime? I think I said bedtime. It is bedtime. Good night.
2018-02-19
00:00:46 <zzo38> Do some of the Ogg and other codecs already have a UUID defined for them?
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02:06:17 <oerjan> `addquote <shachaf> int-e does not like this [...] <int-e> shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P <shachaf> Higher than your usual? <int-e> who cares?
02:06:20 <HackEgo> 1320) <shachaf> int-e does not like this [...] <int-e> shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P <shachaf> Higher than your usual? <int-e> who cares?
02:07:06 <shachaf> hi oerjan
02:07:31 <shachaf> How would you define a higher-dimesional polynomial (defined over vectors)?
02:20:38 <shachaf> OK, I'll say that an n-polynomial is a function f such that either f(x) = 0, or f(x) = A + g(x)(x)
02:20:57 <shachaf> Where A is an n-tensor and g is an n+1 polynomial
02:21:15 <shachaf> Do you like this?
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02:22:31 <shachaf> A 0-tensor is some vector space; an n+1 tensor is a linear map from V to an n-tensor
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02:25:35 <shachaf> (V is the domain of f.)
02:25:48 <esowiki> [[Backpackr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54149 * Alcofrisbas * (+3938) Created page with "==Introduction== '''backpackr''' is a stack-based themed language that uses a two-dimensional plane of stacks to store information. The backpacker is a pointer with a bag (an..."
02:26:47 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54150&oldid=54139 * Alcofrisbas * (+15) /* B */
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02:32:19 <esowiki> [[Backpackr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54151&oldid=54149 * Alcofrisbas * (+385)
02:33:23 <esowiki> [[Backpackr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54152&oldid=54151 * Alcofrisbas * (+3) /* Turing Completeness */
02:34:01 <esowiki> [[Backpackr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54153&oldid=54152 * Alcofrisbas * (-16) /* Turing Completeness */
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02:42:55 <oerjan> hichaf. i'd maybe define it in such a way that each coordinate of the result was a polynomial in the input coordinates?
02:43:22 <oerjan> which i doubt is the same thing you said.
02:44:05 <oerjan> s/input/argument/
02:44:17 <oerjan> (too much PPCG)
02:46:46 * oerjan pokes Warrigal
02:47:10 <oerjan> that's some idling
02:47:40 <oerjan> anyway, i wrote a /// answer to a particularly appropriate PPCG challenge https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/156081/
02:48:05 <oerjan> Warrigal: ^
02:48:23 <oerjan> (just in case he has some strict pinging rules)
02:49:35 <shachaf> oerjan: Why is it not the thing I said?
02:50:10 <shachaf> What I said should be equivalent to saying f(x) = A + B(x) + C(x,x) + D(x,x,x) + ...
02:50:18 <shachaf> Where A,B,C,D are multilinear.
02:51:42 <shachaf> So C is a quadratic form and so on. Doesn't that work out to the same thing?
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02:55:35 <shachaf> Anyway I want to talk about derivatives of these things, ideally in a coordinate-free way.
02:57:02 <esowiki> [[AlphaBeta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54154&oldid=39860 * Oerjan * (+83) /* External resources */ Corrected interpreter