00:49:19 <zzo38> Probably to understand the rules I wrote, is needing to know both Pokemon game and mahjong game.
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02:13:21 <b_jonas> `ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2707534/whats-going-on/
02:13:22 <HackEso> ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2707534/whats-going-on/: b_jonas
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04:27:10 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Marcsine * New user account
04:56:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58635&oldid=58593 * Marcsine * (+248) Hello, world!
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08:06:54 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58636&oldid=58627 * Salpynx * (+622) suggest new command
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09:55:00 <oren> could we cook things faster if the deep fryers were in a room filled with argon or is the somke point of oil independent of the ambient atmosphere?
09:55:28 <shachaf> Is the smoke point of oil the limiting factor for deep frying?
09:57:13 <oren> shachaf: my research indicates that they have to keep below the point where the oil starts breaking down
09:57:51 <oren> however wikipedia is unclear on whether this process is internal or a reaction between the oil and the air
10:00:29 <oren> further questions: would an oven filled with argon instead of air allow one to bake cookies faster without burning them
10:03:55 * oerjan points to cooking.stackexchange.com
10:04:06 <shachaf> i,i stacking.cookexchange.com
10:04:22 <oren> would an argon-filled kitchen allow the use of highly flammable liquids to cook in
10:04:34 <HackEso> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a and other shady characters.
10:06:49 <oerjan> if only boily were here i'm sure he'd know.
10:07:18 <HackEso> 483) <Phantom_Hoover> I keep asking random people for "friendship <thing>" and it's crippling
10:07:19 <HackEso> 1196) <fizzie> I am in room number 404. <fizzie> I keep not finding it and walking past the door.
10:07:20 <HackEso> 821) <Gregor> Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. <Gregor> Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D [...] <Gregor> Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.”
10:07:20 <HackEso> 176) <fizzie> The Perl script is probably slower than the Befunge code.
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10:11:06 <oerjan> `learn_append oren To escape the (build) system he's considering a career change to mad culinary science.
10:11:08 <HackEso> Learned 'oren': oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a and other shady characters. To escape the (build) system he's considering a career change to mad culinary science.
10:11:41 <oerjan> it's the logical explanation that popped into my mind, so it must be true.
10:11:47 <HackEso> 1/2:redundancy//Since redundancy exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it. \ morphology//Morphology is the theory that you can never have enough phở. boily invented it. \ bofh//A BOFH is a bastard operator from hell. An example is the == operator in PHP. \ west midlands//Nobody knows anything about the West Midlands, and it has claimed the lives of at least two former regulars in this channel who tried to investigate so far. \ resolution//
10:11:54 <HackEso> 2/2:As of 2015, highest resolution commercial computer monitors are 5120x2880 Apple and 3840x2160 other.
10:13:25 <oerjan> `slwd s/He.*soon/He finally's got the hang of toycj tuping/
10:14:16 <oerjan> `slwd oren//s/He.*soon/He finally's got the hang of toycj tuping/
10:14:18 <HackEso> oren//oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He finally's got the hang of toycj tuping. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a and other shady characters. To escape the (build) system he's considering a career change to mad culinary science.
10:14:41 <oerjan> `slwd oren//s/He.*soon/He's finally got the hang of toycj tuping/
10:14:42 <HackEso> oren//oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He's finally got the hang of toycj tuping. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a and other shady characters. To escape the (build) system he's considering a career change to mad culinary science.
10:15:44 <HackEso> muphrys law//Mumphrie's Law says things will be misspelled at the worst possible moment.
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11:15:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58637&oldid=58636 * Plokmijnuhby * (+387) Rearrangement of my comment
11:16:40 <salpynx> question for the experts: Is there a meaningful difference in proving Turing completeness between (1) figuring out a transpiler (on paper or in a higher level language) between a known TC language and the target, and (2) creating an functional interpreter for the known TC language in the target? Is (1) sufficient for a TC proof?
11:17:37 <salpynx> I have figured out an algorithm for converting Waterfall Model code into ixqus (which definitely works for the smallish examples I have tried), but (2) is going to be substantially more work, and I'm worried something about the target (ixqus) will make it impossible to do properly, so a higher level language will always be required to do the transpiling. That would mean the target is not really TC, but only looks like it under some
11:17:56 <salpynx> Alternatively, if (1) _is_ sufficient, then (2) must be possible, but I won't have to actually do it :)
11:20:59 <int-e> (1) is sufficient.
11:22:46 <int-e> Intuitively (there are some technical obstacles but the basic ideas are sound), (1) gives you (2) (take a self-interpreter for the source language and translate it to the target language), and (2) gives you an easy approach to (1) (take the source program and combine it with the interpreter into a single program that runs it)
11:23:49 <shachaf> So apparently there's no better bound than PSPACE for the question "which of two sequences of naturals has the larger sum-of-square-roots?"
11:24:26 <salpynx> excellent, that is what I was hoping! It feels like it should have been obvious, but I was worried that there would be some technicality that somehow enabled one without the other.
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11:31:09 <salpynx> Even though Waterfall Model is pretty simple, getting any sort of _usable_ conditional happening in the target was quite challenging, though I think I have a good understanding now of the issues. I got stuck trying to implement an Autopsy interpreter, but hopefully have learned enough to continue. For some reason I think an Autopsy interpreter will be easier than a Waterfall Model one, even though the Wafterfall transpiler was more
11:32:10 <int-e> shachaf: hmm I've found http://cs.smith.edu/~jorourke/TOPP/P33.html and it's not at all obvious to me why it would be in PSPACE.
11:32:23 <salpynx> I guess interpreters are easier when the language syntax is closer, but Waterfall Model has nice clean logic regardless of target syntax, which enables transpiling
11:33:27 <int-e> (since that suggests that in the worst case you need to compute exponentially many bits of the results)
11:43:01 <b_jonas> oren: I don't see how that's relevant. doesn't a good deep fryer already let you heat the oil to a high enough temperature that higher would be worse on the food itself?
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11:47:06 <shachaf> http://ftp.cs.rutgers.edu/pub/allender/slp.pdf talks about it
11:54:02 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58638&oldid=58637 * Plokmijnuhby * (+622) /* Element removal */
11:55:25 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPLHBPTBOTEW]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58639&oldid=58638 * Plokmijnuhby * (+0) /* Element removal */
11:58:09 <salpynx> int-e: thanks for the answer. I'd always thought self-interpreters were an interesting curiosity, made for their own sake, but now I see the utility combined with translation. You can code the interpreter in whatever language seems easiest, then convert
12:29:48 <esowiki> [] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58640&oldid=58611 * Salpynx * (+159) Turing Complete via the Waterfall Model
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15:59:31 <b_jonas> See? They're copying themselves and each other again. http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/cryptography is essentially the same as https://www.xkcd.com/538/
16:09:24 <int-e> well, it is common wisdom... or at least ought to be
17:23:15 <HackEso> 1329) <Ana-> Excuse me, I entered the channel without knowing what it was. I just wanted to talk to people <Ana-> 😥 <Phantom_Hoover> idk if you're likely to have much luck there <Phantom_Hoover> this channel is mostly full of computer programmers, not people \ 1330) <b_jonas> I don't care for the bf backend as long as it doesn't make the rest of ayacc harder to sue
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17:24:52 <zzo38> Do you have any more ideas about new yaku or other rules for pokemon mahjong game?
17:31:14 <b_jonas> wow, there's an assembler syntax for C64 where the pseudo-instruction that inserts raw data is called "!BYTE" with an exclamation mark
17:31:22 <zzo38> O, I didn't know that
17:31:23 <b_jonas> who'd use an exclamation mark for that?
17:31:49 <zzo38> Whoever wrote that program, I suppose.
17:31:53 <b_jonas> I don't even understand why AT&T syntax uses dots. why do you need a prefix at all, when these are among the most common pseudo-instruction
17:32:48 <b_jonas> and I sort of wish they hadn't, because most of their assembler syntax for x86_32 and x86_64 is actually saner than the intel syntax
17:33:17 <b_jonas> seriously, intel's argument syntax is messed up
17:33:34 <ais523> I think they want to make it clear when reading the asm which instructions are direct processor instructions and which are instructions to the assembler
17:35:31 <b_jonas> incidentally, I'd like to point at http://yasm.tortall.net/ as what seems like a sane modern assembler and https://www.agner.org/optimize/ as a sane disassembler for the x86_64
17:35:44 <b_jonas> um, https://www.agner.org/optimize/#objconv for the latter
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17:57:52 <oerjan> b_jonas: istr at least one of munroe and weinersmith has explicitly stated e doesn't check whether the other guy (or possibly anyone) has made a joke before
17:58:07 <oerjan> (although the istr was hearsay)
17:59:26 * oerjan stopped reading smbc a while ago because it seemed to be just bringing up depressing ideas.
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18:52:54 <b_jonas> wow. I have three consecutive quotes at the quote file starting from 1326
18:53:41 <HackEso> 1326) <wob_jonas> and at least don't put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that's insulting Hofstadter
18:53:47 <HackEso> 1327) <wob_jonas> that real-world complexity doesn't fit my simple model of English <wob_jonas> must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism
18:53:51 <HackEso> 1328) <wob_jonas> ARGH! I just saw something on the web that is publicly available, but I shouldn't have looked at it, and now I can't unsee it. I was naive, I used to imagine that the world was a nicer place. <wob_jonas> It's the rules of an insurance company for computing the fees of motor vehicle insurance in Hungary. [...]
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19:08:34 <oerjan> `` doag quotes | grep symmetry
19:08:36 <HackEso> 11610:2018-08-22 <arseniïv> addquote <wob_jonas> that real-world complexity doesn\'t fit my simple model of English <wob_jonas> must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism
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21:28:29 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58641&oldid=58639 * Salpynx * (+2100) trying to figure out valid sets
21:43:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58642&oldid=58641 * Salpynx * (+643) Set == key:value swapped dict?
21:49:25 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58643&oldid=58642 * Salpynx * (+469) /* Turing completeness */
22:07:15 <esowiki> [[User:BradensEsolangs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58644&oldid=58019 * BradensEsolangs * (-46)
22:07:40 <esowiki> [[Mep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58645&oldid=54906 * BradensEsolangs * (+1) Prefer it here
22:12:17 <esowiki> [[Mep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58646&oldid=58645 * BradensEsolangs * (+1)
22:16:52 <b_jonas> I think we gained a very useful contributor to esolangs with them
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22:55:32 <Sgeo_> ...darn I just wanted to say something to oerjan about Archie search being dead
22:55:41 <Sgeo_> ftp://ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/pub/frc/fantasy.rules.committee
23:02:09 <zzo38> Make the file available with gopher then; Veronica-2 still works, even if Archie doesn't
23:06:11 <zzo38> (There are also other problems with FTP; other protocols are often better, either HTTP, Plan9, Gopher, TFTP, or SSH, according to what is needed)
23:12:48 <b_jonas> plan9 protocol? is that the one with the white bunny? let me look that up
23:14:46 <b_jonas> yeah, though the bunny has small ears, unlike what I remembered
23:19:13 <b_jonas> nice as a logo, but I don't think it adapts well to a plushie, and that's something of a drawback when it comes to software mascots
23:20:55 <zzo38> Are you sure does it need to?
23:22:05 <zzo38> I suppose it might help to earn money if you can sell plushies, maybe
23:24:16 <zzo38> Which software projects do, anyways?
23:37:10 <b_jonas> no, the software project doesn't directly gain money from that
23:38:40 <zzo38> O OK, although I am not sure why they would need to make it adapts well to a plushie then (unless perhaps they expect other people will want to do), but not that there is anything wrong to make adapts to plushies
23:39:52 <b_jonas> they probably don't need to, yes.
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23:55:35 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPLHBPTBOTEW]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58647&oldid=58643 * Salpynx * (+3) /* Element removal */