←2018-12-23 2018-12-24 2018-12-25→ ↑2018 ↑all
00:00:01 <b_jonas> (the actual ranking depends on how you define Europe and whether Mohammed and Jesus counts as such)
00:00:02 <ais523> b_jonas: the days of the week are mostly named after Norse deities
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00:00:09 <ais523> although Monday is an exception, that's named after the Moon
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00:00:35 <b_jonas> yeah, that's sort of a better explanation
00:00:43 <b_jonas> Wednesday named after Odin, yeah, that makes sense
00:00:49 <ais523> (and the Moon has a capital M because we're talking about Earth's Moon in particular, i.e. it's a proper name for it; lowercase "moon" could refer to any natural satellite of anything)
00:00:53 <b_jonas> yeah
00:01:29 <b_jonas> I don't know why those are called "moon" or "satellite" by the way. the russians totally invented them, they should be called sputniks even in English.
00:02:18 <ais523> I think Sputnik was the name of a particular line of artificial satellites (which is famous due to being the first), and people weren't expecting the name to continue through to all satellites in the future
00:02:24 <ais523> it'd be like calling all moon landers apollos
00:03:08 <b_jonas> um, isn't it basically a common noun for artificial satellites in sane languages?
00:03:16 <ais523> not in English
00:03:35 <b_jonas> as for moon landers, aren't ALL of the ones that carried humans actually called "Apollo"?
00:03:37 <ais523> we'd interpret "Sputnik" as referring to the first artificial satellite (or one closely related), whatever the capitalisation
00:03:46 <b_jonas> the first line, I think
00:04:02 <b_jonas> but I think it used to be a common noun for a few decades until the Americans forced it out of common use somehow
00:04:11 <ais523> and yes, I think all the moon landers which carried humans were in the Apollo series, but we wouldn't expect the same name to be used for future moon landers
00:04:19 <b_jonas> all the old books call them sputnik, at least on the east side of the Iron Curtain
00:05:02 <ais523> Wiktionary's definition of "sputnik" says that the reference to the series of Soviet satellites is "historical", and the more general usage is "dated"
00:05:33 <b_jonas> yeah, maybe it lasted for longer on this side of the iron curtain
00:05:49 <b_jonas> where we didn't have american trends about what words are "dated" and what are "trendy" until like 1990
00:06:01 <b_jonas> or more like 2002 when the internet came around
00:06:12 <b_jonas> or Hollywood films
00:09:56 <ais523> and Wiktionary explains that by "historical" it means a current word that describes something that no longer exists, thus the word is only useful when talking about the past
00:10:21 <b_jonas> yeah
00:10:22 <b_jonas> it's sad
00:10:31 <ais523> although one example they give for that is "phlogiston", which never did exist in the first place
00:10:32 <b_jonas> I'd prefer if we called them sputniks
00:10:52 <b_jonas> isn't phlogiston just oxygen after a sign change?
00:11:31 <b_jonas> I mean, it's like electric charge, supposedly since Franklin didn't get corrected by a time traveler, is electrons after a sign change?
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00:21:18 <zzo38> At least, an explanation of phlogiston that I have read in one book seems to match what you suggest.
00:25:16 <b_jonas> nah, the explanation I read is that it was just a measurement error
00:26:23 <b_jonas> phlogiston was "proved" by someone burning something in an airtight enclosure, and measuring that it becomes lighter when it's burned, so they proclaimed that flogiston is a magical material that has particles so fine that it can leak out through whatever glass enclosure they used, because obviously they didn't have modern plastic for that like we do
00:26:44 <b_jonas> it turns out that their enclosure just wasn't as airtight as they believe, and some air did leak out
00:26:52 <b_jonas> which is why the scale measured it lighter
00:27:59 <zzo38> I read a different thing than that in a different book, though.
00:28:06 <b_jonas> hmm
00:28:14 <b_jonas> maybe what I read wasn't entirely trustworthy
00:28:26 <b_jonas> we had all sorts of stupid things in pop science books back when I was young
00:29:19 <b_jonas> I mean, I literally had a pop science book that told obviously false stuff about tides, and less obviously false stuff about a bicycle, for more than a decade before I realized how stupid that one is
00:29:42 <b_jonas> the phlogiston one was in a different book, but that one need not be trustworthy either
00:31:41 <zzo38> What I read in one book is they thought phlogiston has a negative mass, and that hydrogen is made of water and phlogiston. So, I thought, that mean that phlogiston is the negative oxygen.
00:32:11 <b_jonas> negative mass?
00:32:28 <zzo38> Yes, that is what it said.
00:32:28 <b_jonas> but isn't phlogiston supposed to be some magical fuel thingy that unburned materials have but burned materials no longer have?
00:32:37 <b_jonas> that would have positive mass
00:32:45 <b_jonas> unless they measured wrong of course
00:32:47 <zzo38> I don't know. I only know what I read
00:33:06 <b_jonas> which is quite easy, given how oxygen is 1000 times less dense than wood, and they didn't have scales that precise back then
00:33:26 <b_jonas> so all the measurements they get on the weight of phlogiston are probably errors in the experiment filtered through publication bias
00:36:06 <b_jonas> ok that's totally false
00:36:19 <b_jonas> the 1000 times lighter is for gaseous oxygen, that's irrelevant
00:36:37 <b_jonas> the releavnt stuff is how much oxygen the burnt wax would consume, and that weight is much more significant
00:36:58 <b_jonas> so you could actually measure it, but only if your supposedly airtight container actually lets more air in
00:37:06 <ais523> you need to compare the mass by molarity, not by volume
00:37:42 <b_jonas> ais523: by mass I think
00:37:50 <b_jonas> it's the mass that's measured
00:38:05 <ais523> b_jonas: you need to compare the mass of the reacted oxygen with the mass of the reacted fuel
00:38:31 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah
00:38:34 <ais523> and the molarity of each that reacts will be the same up to multiplication by a small integer on each side
00:38:49 <ais523> so you need to compare the mass of a mole of oxygen to the mass of a mole of wax
00:39:24 <ais523> (although with polymers, you need to count the monomers when measuring your mole, not the chains, as the monomers burn individually)
00:39:34 <b_jonas> for perfectly burning petrol in modern cars, sure. but would it be so constant in realistic scenareos from two hundred years ago?
00:39:35 <ais523> I can't remember whether wax is a polymer; wood is, though
00:40:00 <ais523> the 200-year-ago state may be /more/ controlled
00:40:29 <ais523> petrol is a very complex mixture (e.g. it's not entirely made of octane), whereas wood is almost entirely cellulose
00:40:29 <b_jonas> I think wax is ideally pure unsaturated alkane compounds, and it ideally burns to only oxygen and water
00:40:46 <ais523> OK, so wax is a short-chain polymer
00:40:46 <b_jonas> at least if you have a chemistry lab where you can burn wax that well
00:41:03 <b_jonas> so well that it doesn't even leave smoke
00:41:16 <b_jonas> but all we hear is about how messy candles and oil lighting were back then
00:41:36 <b_jonas> they got replaced by Edison's light bulbs really quickly
00:43:30 <b_jonas> and that was before oil refineries
00:43:48 <b_jonas> their gas factories were laughable
00:54:35 <arseniiv> b_jonas> seriously, "Monday"? => yeah, to me it too seems quite unnatural. I get it in German all noun are capitalized, but English seems strange in this, as French punctuation spacing and a language I don’t remember which uses quotes »like this« :D (no offense, I respect the choices, in the end I don’t write in these languages at all—except English, which I should practise more frequently, really, but it’s irrelevant in this p
00:54:35 <arseniiv> arenthetical)
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00:57:41 <b_jonas> arseniiv: yeah, French is space. French uses « outside facing » quotes like this, with thinner than normal non-breaking spaces inside them
00:58:28 <b_jonas> I know that because I read David Madore's blog, and he writes about typography often
00:59:18 <oerjan> ais523: it seems your re:direction TC proof doesn't really need the left direction, except possibly to ensure interspersed 0s instead of junk output
00:59:52 <ais523> oerjan: indeed, it doesn't need up either
01:00:27 <oerjan> otoh maybe if you have all 4 you could avoid wrapping - you're only using it at the bottom
01:00:32 <ais523> the language is more elegant with all four directions, though (and likely has more ability to write code in interesting ways)
01:01:08 <ais523> I considered "Re:direction without wrapping" as a challenge language for PPCG (i.e. the challenge is to prove it TC), but I have to prove it TC myself first before I can do that
01:01:51 <oerjan> heh
01:03:00 <ais523> one huge benefit of the wrapping is that you can put a diamond on a row/column by itself and delete a certain type of element from the queue entirely that way; in the non-wrapping version, deletions are still possible but it's much more complex
01:05:06 <arseniiv> Russian has capitalization issues, I should admit, too. One case I remember is possessive adjectives made from proper names, these capitalize when they have certain suffixes in them (!!) Maybe this rule has some semantic overtones (it shouldn’t have been appeared by chance probably, and writers of the past certainly thought something?) but I don’t see that
01:05:15 <ais523> btw, on the subject of the two-variable Blindfolded Arithmetic construction: I've been interested in the potential for a language which can get it down to one for a while
01:05:48 <ais523> (basically, as a thought experiment into "what sort of commands would Deadfish need to be Turing-complete, with no memory but the accumulator?")
01:06:04 <b_jonas> arseniiv: yeah, the Hungarian rules are crazy too
01:06:07 <ais523> but didn't come up with anything that worked, assuming we want the commands to be arithmetically simple and take no argument
01:06:59 <b_jonas> no wonder
01:09:04 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded Arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58810&oldid=58783 * Ais523 * (+179) /* External links */ link the two-variable TCness proof
01:12:42 <oerjan> <b_jonas> especially of fields. English maths terminology does borrow from german occasionally, so why didn't they just say "corpse" or "corps" or something? <-- i suspect that suggestion was dead on arrival hth
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01:14:58 <b_jonas> oerjan: it even has a freaky Hungarian equivalent. algebraic corpses are called "test" in Hungarian,
01:16:05 <b_jonas> and there's a whimsical suggetion to call a subcorpse "altest", because the prefix "al-" would totally work for that on normal words,
01:16:22 <oerjan> i think the french "corps" means "body", not "corpse" hth
01:16:55 <b_jonas> but "altest" happpens to mean "lower body", so mathematicians are ALL so chickems
01:17:01 <oerjan> the norwegian equivalent is "kropp", cognate to the german and used for the math too
01:17:22 <b_jonas> that thwy call it "résztest" instead
01:17:44 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah, or "torso".
01:18:55 <b_jonas> but "torso" sounds like it's about something non-commutative because of "torsion" and how algebraist's mind work, so that's excluded
01:20:47 <oerjan> hm "underkropp" means both lower body and subfield in norwegian
01:21:01 <b_jonas> so it's a corps or a Körper
01:25:06 <oerjan> hm swedish seems to have chickened out with "del-" instead of "under-" :P
01:25:40 <oerjan> which seems like just what hungarian did too
01:25:45 <oerjan> (meaning "part")
01:26:03 <b_jonas> yeah
01:27:49 <b_jonas> mind you, "rész" is much more frequent in other maths words too, partly because "alhalmaz" sound stupid
01:27:56 <int-e> oerjan: darn you made me look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpse
01:28:21 <int-e> So I learned about plastination. Good night.
01:33:22 <oerjan> int-e: i take no blame for that hth
01:34:44 <arseniiv> corpses everywhere! :o :o :o and ghosts and whatnot
01:35:15 <b_jonas> ghosts?
01:35:18 <arseniiv> oops Halloween has passed a while ago
01:35:50 <b_jonas> hmm
01:38:34 <oerjan> b_jonas: interesting, norwegian uses "del-" in that case, "delmengde" = subset. although "undermengde" seems to have some usage.
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01:39:27 <oerjan> everyone flees
01:40:55 <arseniiv> I meant to say, in Russian math terminology, there is a body too, it denotes a skew field. And “subbody” doesn’t have any sufficiently strong connotations, it isn’t homonymous with any body part
01:41:57 <arseniiv> I spent so much time looking what skew field is called in English :\
01:49:53 <oerjan> <arseniiv> I have thought that 'full and 'null rhyme, poor me <-- argh they don't?
01:52:59 <oerjan> <arseniiv> oh, um, have someone added a language to Try it online? <-- i vaguely think the procedure is to go on the PPCG channel for it and ask dennis
01:53:21 <oerjan> (not that i have done so)
01:54:19 <oerjan> ais523 would know, if he hasn't already told you.
01:58:18 <arseniiv> no notification at least
01:58:37 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> ais523: does ghc use it to parse the contradictory fixity statements that affect where the invisible braces are earlier in the code? or is that using a sat solver? <-- ghc never did that, and since 2010 official haskell doesn't do it either.
01:58:37 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:59:49 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas (they sanely made fixity resolution a separate post-parsing phase)
01:59:49 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:01:06 <arseniiv> if I sometime write an implementation for Ⅎ it would be cool, but I haven’t yet and lazy to plan doing it even, so no importance
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02:14:41 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Areallycoolusername * New user account
02:15:35 <arseniiv> is there a middle ground between Haskell and Rust (or C++, but Rust is more disciplined with what way you can define an operator for your type)?
02:15:35 <arseniiv> maybe something with less freedom to do unnecessary ASCII art than in Haskell (or this is not needed and I’m deluded), and with more restrictions, in case there is a small finite set of operators, on which constraints there are when defining/overloading several operations together
02:16:58 <arseniiv> at the time I think Haskell (but with the right mathematically sound Prelude of course!) is a better alternative but
02:17:56 <arseniiv> (and that Prelude should include actions, so I could add a point and a vector and get a point, or subtract two points and get a vector)
02:18:55 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58811&oldid=58804 * Areallycoolusername * (+177) Introduction
02:19:24 <arseniiv> (I come to think people are overlooking actions, and it seems sad. Maybe they are not so practical, but still!)
02:21:23 <arseniiv> . o O ( wonders what does “areally cool” mean )
02:21:41 <oerjan> i vaguely recall mixing types like that leads to horrible type inference
02:23:19 <oerjan> although maybe that's only if you try to use the same + operator for all uses
02:23:50 <arseniiv> I think there would be an issue if we want to define a default action (only one or maybe both) for a group and use the same operation + for action(s) and a group operation itself
02:23:57 <arseniiv> yeah I have that feeling
02:24:36 <arseniiv> also using + is somewhat bad for noncommutative cases
02:25:02 <oerjan> you might look at the replacement preludes on hackage
02:25:17 <arseniiv> I want it because of strings in too many languages, but I understand why there’s <> for Semigroup/Monoid
02:25:57 <arseniiv> in one or two of them, IIRC there were no actions, but it’s a good reminder, thanks
02:26:18 <arseniiv> I still haven’t picked a mathy Prelude to use
02:28:36 <oerjan> my haskelling is all about PPCG these days, i don't even seem to have installed lens with my GHC version, which is still 8.0.1
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02:29:50 <arseniiv> oerjan: p. puzzles and code golf or polyhedral parallel code generation?
02:30:00 <oerjan> the former
02:30:34 <arseniiv> I wish I could say this too but I’m almost only talking about Haskell even :D
02:30:49 <arseniiv> (and I blame unmathy Prelude!)
02:33:18 <arseniiv> btw haven’t someone heard isn’t there something new about comonadic do-notation? Is it possible to do right and do one needs it at all. It seems non-symmetric to have do, proc…do but no “codo”, whatever it may be
02:34:04 <arseniiv> seems this topic ceased to interest people, I haven’t found any news when searched a while ago…
02:39:14 <esowiki> [[GreeeeeeeeenText]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58812 * Areallycoolusername * (+247) A new language page
02:42:22 <esowiki> [[GreeeeeeeeenText]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58813&oldid=58812 * Areallycoolusername * (+173) New edit
02:43:39 <esowiki> [[GreeeeeeeeenText]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58814&oldid=58813 * Areallycoolusername * (+20) New edit
02:46:02 <arseniiv> but once there were two attempts, and flaws were deemed to be in at least one of them, with not many commenters
02:46:52 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58815&oldid=58761 * Areallycoolusername * (+84) Language link
02:49:22 <esowiki> [[GreeeeeeeeenText]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58816&oldid=58814 * Areallycoolusername * (+13) Coooool
02:49:57 <esowiki> [[GreeeeeeeeenText]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58817&oldid=58816 * Areallycoolusername * (+1) E
02:50:35 <arseniiv> I thought it should be easy if one submits themselves and after some thought sees how to use duality to make it, but either there’s few folks interested or it’s non-trivial
02:51:09 <arseniiv> interested *and* fluent in comonads, that is
03:02:49 <oerjan> i'm sure edward kmett must have spoken about the issue somewhere...
03:03:21 <zzo38> I think I read somewhere that the do-notation for comonads is called "method"
03:03:27 <arseniiv> ah, seem to remember my idea what to do: we know functions a → m b where m is a monad are actually arrows (in Arrow sense), as are functions w a → b for w a comonad, so one could(?) see how do do-notation and proc…do which is doing the same, correspond; and then take proc…do which operates only on comonadic arrows and “uncorrespond” it into valid codo notation
03:03:56 <arseniiv> zzo38: yeah, one of the two authors I read called his a method
03:05:39 <arseniiv> uncorrespond => or should I say rrespond (ok I’ll show myself out)
03:10:24 <oerjan> do notation is really a quite thin sugar over >>= and lambdas, which only makes sense because it resembles intuitive imperative notation. perhaps the equivalent for comonads is simply not something already intuitive, and therefore no one sees a real point in not using the operators directly. at least that's my guess, i haven't really used them.
03:12:46 <zzo38> I thought that do-notation should be somehow definable as a macro rather than being built-in.
03:13:21 <arseniiv> horay, I have googled an article by Dominic Orchard and Alan Mycroft, “A Notation for Comonads”. Diving in
03:15:24 <arseniiv> zzo38: AFAIK it’s a sorta macro, GHC has a tiny core language which shouldn’t contain it and many other things, and it translates ordinary Haskell into it first
03:20:20 <arseniiv> no one would like writing in this core language of course, and there are no means to restrict input to it if I got it right
03:20:29 <arseniiv> so my answer is off
03:21:58 <oerjan> there's not even a parser for it, although i think you can use the GHC api to construct core in plugins
03:22:11 <oerjan> (unless someone made one since i heard)
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08:52:04 <zzo38> How to play a audio CD on Linux? I tried "play /dev/cdrom" but it says it can't determine the type of the file.
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10:09:01 <zzo38> (Specifying the type of the file doesn't help either; in that case it is a different error.)
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12:16:22 <ais523> zzo38: VLC seems to have an option to play audio CDs (it's under "open disc" in the "media" menu)
12:16:59 <ais523> I don't think playing a raw device works for the same reason that you can't open a file on /dev/hda, you need some layers in between to understand things like the partitioning and filesystems
12:17:15 <ais523> (a CD can contain both audio tracks and data tracks at the same time, implying that there's some sort of partitioning going on)
12:20:08 <ais523> @tell arseniiv for adding a language to TIO, you nee to contact Dennis (on StackExchange chat is easiest), and have a working interpreter or compiler that supports at least output, a hello world, a documentation link, and some idea about how UTF-8 source entered into TIO directly corresponds to bytes as seen by the program on disk
12:20:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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17:15:16 <oerjan> and the foreshadowing in girl genius comes together...
17:24:54 <oerjan> also, merry christmas! (norwegian style timing)
17:38:15 <oren> oerjan: it's christmas in east asia already
17:39:15 <oerjan> well in norway's case it's mostly that it starts at 5pm on the 24th
17:40:06 * oerjan prepares to open his traditional first nutella ball
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17:42:19 <BBH> Hi everybody
17:42:25 <oerjan> hi
17:42:28 * BBH says hi
17:43:06 * oerjan gets sudden urge to apply turing test to BBH
17:43:12 <BBH> b:Hi!\n;p:b;k;
17:43:19 <BBH> A:; program
17:44:10 <BBH> What's the difference between this and IRC
17:44:46 <oerjan> this is irc
17:45:00 <oerjan> so, none i guess?
17:46:22 <BBH> ...
17:46:56 <BBH> programming anyone
17:47:49 <BBH> Wait
17:48:05 <BBH> On my screen this website says "Not Secure"
17:49:53 <BBH> but for me it isn't such a big problem
17:50:45 <BBH> j:He;l:llo?;p:j;p:l;k;
17:51:00 <esowiki> [[A:;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58819&oldid=58545 * Oerjan * (-15) /* Interpreter in Ruby */ fix(?) fmt
17:51:04 <Luciole> oerjan: good yule!
17:51:08 <BBH> ?
17:51:26 <BBH> "Difference between revisions of A:;"
17:51:42 <oerjan> BBH: i just removed the redundant <code></code> tags
17:52:01 <oerjan> they were causing stray little grey blobs in the page
17:52:33 <BBH> oh yeah
17:53:19 <BBH> in the esolang article https://esolangs.org/wiki/A:; there are 3 or 4 empty boxes around the Ruby interpreter
17:53:43 <BBH> .... go to the web address bar and add another ";"
17:54:18 <oerjan> not any more.
17:54:46 * BBH stares wide-eyed at screen *
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17:56:35 <BBH_> wait
17:56:44 <BBH_> why is there BBH and BBH_
17:56:48 * BBH_
17:57:00 <oerjan> BBH_: you can use https to get rid of the insecure warning, i suspect
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17:57:59 <oerjan> Luciole: feliz navidad
17:58:41 <Luciole> oerjan: Frohe Weihnachten
17:58:44 -!- BBH_ has joined.
17:59:01 <BBH_> ok now i think this is broken'
17:59:25 <Luciole> What bit?
17:59:31 -!- BBH has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
17:59:43 <BBH_> the first time i got here i was BBH
18:00:00 <BBH_> then i refreshed, logged in as BBH, and now I'm BBH_
18:00:18 <Luciole> sure, because BBH is still online, since you refreshed
18:00:27 <Luciole> ping timeout and all that
18:00:38 <Luciole> it quit up there, so you can /nick to BBH now
18:00:49 -!- BBH_ has changed nick to BBH.
18:01:23 * BBH Runs away to get brunch but realizes he forgot to say thanks *
18:01:30 <BBH> thx
18:01:51 <Luciole> mmm brunch
18:01:52 <Luciole> good idea
18:03:04 <oerjan> i think it may be impossible for an A:; program to print a ; character, not good for quines
18:03:14 <BBH> b:BBH gets;c: leftover bread from yes;j:terday;p:b;p:c;p:j;k;
18:03:16 <BBH> yeah
18:03:46 <oerjan> or wait
18:03:48 <oerjan> there
18:04:01 <oerjan> was a \n somewhere, so maybe it can be escaped
18:04:52 <BBH> A quine would be somthing like "b:b:b:b:b:b:b:... p:b ...p:b"
18:05:23 <oerjan> oh no, the ruby interpreter explicitly substitutes \n, and only that
18:05:26 <BBH> But I can't work the Ruby interpreter 🤣
18:05:59 <oerjan> so there is probably no way to get ; into a variable
18:07:03 <oerjan> and you need at least one in any program to print
18:09:50 <BBH> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII#Control_Characters is not what you think.
18:10:10 <BBH> the first part is boring, but the table is important for many esolangs
18:10:33 <BBH> like Omgrofl
18:11:57 * BBH takes a break to eat brunch *
18:13:56 <oren> the C interpreter behaves quite differently than the ruby one
18:14:40 <BBH> idk c
18:15:33 <BBH> and nothing keeps me more interested than A:; 🙂
18:24:36 <BBH> b: bottles of beer on the wall,\n;c: bottles of beer,\nTake one down,pass it around,\n;j: bottles of beer on the wall.\n\n;l: bottle of beer on the wall.\n;o:bottle of beer,\ntake one down, pass it around,\n0 bottles of beer on the wall.;q:99.0;r:1.0;t:99.0;?:q:=:t:7;p:q;p:b;p:q;p:c;s:q:r;p:q;p:j;g:6;...
18:24:58 <BBH> That's supposed to be a 99 bottles of beer program but I'm too lazy to write it all
18:26:04 <zzo38> How to make the data of a audio CD on stdout (so that it can be written to a file or piped to another program) or to mount as a file system with one file per track (which can then be played or converted by SoX)?
18:28:02 <BBH> Audio IS represented by ones and zeros. So is text... but I don't think you could convert audio to text because there's a huge amount of information in the audio file(like a CD)especially if it's >45 minutes.
18:28:16 <zzo38> I am not trying to convert audio to text
18:28:59 <BBH> but stdout can only output text right?
18:29:07 <zzo38> No, it can output any data
18:29:26 <BBH> i was thinking of the stdout in python
18:29:48 <BBH> but in any other languages idk
18:30:48 <BBH> b:I am;c: st;j:up;l:id!\n;p:b;p:c;p:j;p:l;k;
18:31:09 * BBH That is true *
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18:32:42 <BrightBlackHole> ok got it
18:35:01 <BrightBlackHole> i looked at the esolang A:; article and i found out that the page was "last edited on 20:18, December 2, 2018".
18:35:19 <BrightBlackHole> so 8:18 PM
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18:35:56 <BrightBlackHole> ?
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18:36:09 <oren> BrightBlackHole: depends on the server timezone
18:36:27 <oren> BrightBlackHole: and the native timezone of the user who edited it
18:36:49 <oren> I hate time zones
18:37:02 <BrightBlackHole> me too
18:37:20 <BrightBlackHole> but remember that this is #esoteric, not #randomchat
18:37:53 <BrightBlackHole> ^[
18:37:57 <zzo38> I don't hate timezones. However, the timezone could be specified in the timestamp to avoid, such as adding "Z" at the end if it is UTC
18:38:25 <zzo38> That would have to be fixed in MediaWiki software if you wanted to do that though.
18:38:25 -!- nchambers has changed nick to Rudolph.
18:38:27 <oren> I don't know if the wiki uses its own time zone or converts time ro the zone of the user
18:39:46 <BrightBlackHole> oh wait now it sayd december 24
18:39:48 <BrightBlackHole> thats today
18:39:56 <BrightBlackHole> christmas eve
18:40:52 <BrightBlackHole> about:blank
18:41:04 <BrightBlackHole> chrome://blank
18:45:27 <arseniiv> timezones are a relic of times when there was hardly an easy way to lookup local astronomical times of different places, now in principle we can with the internet and all that, but the zones don’t want to go :(
18:45:55 <zzo38> I don't hate timezones but I do hate daylight saving time
18:46:17 <arseniiv> and so I must live more than a hour away of my local time (IIRC, as there was flux several years ago, still)
18:48:40 <arseniiv> and the noon is 13:something, bwah, and with DST it was for several years even 14:something (as the people somewhere there ceased to understand what DST means, for some obscure reason; then a while ago DST was canceled, finally)
18:49:10 <arseniiv> weird, I say
18:51:01 <oerjan> oren: the timezone is a user preference, defaulting to UTC
18:51:08 <oerjan> (of the reader)
18:52:30 <oerjan> although in talk page signatures, UTC is used.
18:56:45 <BrightBlackHole> whoops i didn't realize i was still on
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19:19:54 <BrightBlackHole> hi again
19:20:07 <BrightBlackHole> blankslate.com
19:20:20 <BrightBlackHole> blankslate.io
19:20:35 <BrightBlackHole> is a place to program in
19:21:05 <BrightBlackHole> https://blankslate.io
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19:53:31 <zzo38> I discussed yesterday with the GM of the game if we can use bite and breath attack together, and he said it can be done, and also that my character (and others of the same species, too) are immune to his own breath attack. (So, if we need to fight someone else of same species, should then use other weapons such as arrows, or even melee attacks, which even in case of natural melee attacks should still work.)
19:56:16 <zzo38> What would you think?
20:12:03 <oerjan> if the breath comes out of the same body opening as where the teeth are, then it would seem hard to do both efficiently simultaneously...
20:12:48 <zzo38> Yes, but I meant on the next turn, if opponent has not yet escaped. If on the same turn, maybe you have to make a rapid strike for a -6 penalty to hit.
20:13:17 <zzo38> If you still think there something wrong with that you can complain about that too
20:17:41 <zzo38> Also in this case is sharp beak rather than teeth
20:22:36 <oerjan> might depend on the beak shape how well it works
20:23:10 <zzo38> Ah, yes, I suppose so.
20:26:24 <oerjan> also on how the breath attack works, if it just needs to touch the opponent's body or e needs to breath it in...
20:26:36 <zzo38> It is a contact agent
20:26:46 <zzo38> (I did already consider that)
20:29:16 <oerjan> the species might very well have evolved holes or gaps in the beak precisely to be able to do this
20:29:44 <oerjan> if it's evolved rather than magically designed, i guess
20:29:56 <zzo38> O, OK, I suppose that can make sense.
20:48:41 <zzo38> Thank you for your suggestions
20:50:43 <oerjan> you're welcome
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21:57:52 <zzo38> Do you like to play Scrabble with memoryless blank tiles?
22:26:39 <LKoen> hi
22:26:52 <LKoen> is there a context to this question? I just arrived
22:30:20 <zzo38> There is no other context, I think
22:37:59 <LKoen> then I'm confused
22:38:29 <LKoen> must I understand that the tiles forget which letter they represent, as soon as they're played?
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22:47:45 <zzo38> Yes, rather than the normal rule which is to have to remember which one it is.
22:48:32 <oerjan> aha
22:51:40 <esowiki> [[Brain:D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58820 * Areallycoolusername * (+643) :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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23:05:43 <esowiki> [[Brain:D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58821&oldid=58820 * Areallycoolusername * (+99) : + infinite Ds
23:08:20 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58822&oldid=58815 * Areallycoolusername * (+58) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
23:12:19 <esowiki> [[Brain:D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58823&oldid=58821 * Areallycoolusername * (+104) :
23:13:40 <esowiki> [[Brain:D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58824&oldid=58823 * Areallycoolusername * (+0) Hol' up I did an oof.
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