00:00:04 <ais523> there is Light and Darkness Dragon which negates monster effect activations automatically, which is great – unfortunately, it also negates spell card activations which would prevent the spells actually being played
00:00:38 <ais523> so I'd either need to stop it negating them somehow, or to reduce its ATK to the point where it can't negate any more (but then it needs to be increased back up for the next turn)
00:01:17 <ais523> I've mostly been working on the second approach, and have reached the edge of my YGO rules knowledge; I know the rules for the interaction of ATK-changing effects are screwy when some of them are permanent, but can't remember what they actually are
00:01:51 <b_jonas> while we're there what did you say about Pokemon TCG the last time? is it definitely not Turing-complete, or is it just designed to make the sort of loops that help TCness much less likely than M:tG?
00:02:28 <ais523> b_jonas: I think we established that at least one voluntary infinite loop (i.e. driven by one of the players taking actions intentionally to sustain the loop) exists, which wasn't obvious
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00:05:09 <b_jonas> I see. sounds like some rulesets for chess, where there's a limit on the number of turns without captures or pawn moves, but if you exceed that limit the game is a draw only if a player requests that draw.
00:06:10 <ais523> the official rules have two limits, nowadays
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00:06:15 <b_jonas> although that needs both players' cooperations for a loop, and even then almost never works because most chess games have real time limits
00:06:30 <ais523> after 50 turns without captures or pawn moves, either player can request a draw, after 75 it is a draw automatically
00:06:45 <ais523> I am not entirely sure why both halves of this are needed, presumably there's a good reason
00:07:11 <b_jonas> I think some correspondence games only have a per-move time limit, not a full game limit
00:08:24 <b_jonas> ais523: maybe the mandatory part is so that tournament games can't go on forever and delay the tournament? though the real time limits should ensure that.
00:09:09 <b_jonas> I don't think it's to ensure that players don't run out of paper for logging the game
00:09:23 <ais523> the time limit is not a problem in many tournaments, it's quite common to have an increment per move
00:09:48 <b_jonas> maybe it's to make the job of umpires easier if a player requests a draw by repetition
00:11:21 <b_jonas> I presume the 75 move limit rarely makes a difference in real world games if the 50 move limit (by request of either player) is there
00:11:21 <ais523> anyway, I just realised that it would be possible to negate the Light and Darkness Dragon to prevent it negating the spell, so all I need to do is find some repeatable way to negate it during a Main Phase but not the Standby Phase, that shouldn't be *too* hard as negating is a very common effect in YGO
00:11:52 <ais523> but that means I have a few thousand cards to read through until I find the one that works :_D
00:12:35 <ais523> it is amazing how tight this path is, so far I have found three points in the proof where only one card (out of the >10000 that exist) works
00:14:18 <ais523> oh what the hell, Beargram works, I didn't even know it had that effect
00:14:37 <ais523> I find the card I need and it is famous for being a meme card :-D
00:15:25 <b_jonas> so this would be a program with a single big loop
00:16:16 <ais523> so, the construction is that Recycle can be activated and Abyss Actor - Comic Relief must be activated during the Standby Phase, but (if I understand the rules properly) the player can choose the order
00:16:46 <b_jonas> I see "I find the card I need and it is famous" and "Beargram" and I think of M:tG Berserk, is that normal?
00:16:55 <ais523> they have to Recycle the card out of the graveyard so that when Comic Relief activates, and gets the activation negated by Light and Darkness Dragon, Tantrum Toddler has nothing to attach (otherwise Tantrum Toddler gets its eighth material and activates a game-winning effect – although we'd need to prevent *it* being negated by Light and Darkness Dragon somehow)
00:17:04 <ais523> b_jonas: similar names, very different effects though
00:18:22 <ais523> oh no, this is easy, you have Tantrum Toddler get its activation negated by Light and Darkness Dragon, *but* you still pay the cost (to send 4 attached cards to the graveyard), and you just have the cost to detach the cards automatically win the game, so it doesn't matter that the activation doesn't go through
00:19:27 <ais523> then during the turn, you play the Spell Card you drew for turn, and Light and Darkness Dragon can't activate because Beargram prevents effects being activated in response to Spell Card activations
00:20:54 <ais523> one other thing the player could do is not play the card – but the idea is to have six cards in hand that can't be played, so if you don't play it you have to discard something to hand size, and that triggers two copies of Forced Requisition to make the opponent discard two cards, and those can be cards that trigger in the GY to immediately win the game
00:21:48 <ais523> and the other other thing you could do would be to set it face down as though it were a trap (Normal Spells don't do anything when set like traps, but it's a legal action so that you can bluff), but we can have a Denko Sekka on the field that specifically prevents setting spells and traps
00:22:23 <ais523> I think that's a full lockdown of the spell-using player's actions, other than attacking which there are numerous ways to prevent
00:23:47 <ais523> the opponent doesn't really have to do anything, they just exist to control certain cards, so all that's necessary is a way to prevent them losing to deckout, and there are a ton of those
00:24:27 <ais523> anyway, assuming that lockdown loop works, we then need to find a viable programming language made out of Normal Spells
00:24:55 <ais523> and the problem there is that YGO naturally has two counters and no control flow (all the commands run in sequence), which is not enough unless the commands are quite complex
00:25:52 <ais523> (the two players' life totals are the two most easily controllable counters)
00:27:17 <ais523> I guess the Light and Darkness Dragon is continuously shrinking every turn, that might be usable for computation somehow, although there's also a need to top the attack level back up so that it can keep negating
00:28:34 <ais523> ooh! Light and Darkness Dragon is symmetrical, so I can have the spell-using player control it, that makes its ATK much easier to manipulate, although I'd still need to find something that boosts ATK permanently and not just until end of turn
00:28:48 <ais523> or alternatively, resets the ATK drop
00:31:28 <ais523> just to complete the lockdown loop for any YGO player who finds this in the logs: the combo to autowin with cards in graveyard is Transaction Rollback + Compulsory Evacuation Device targeting a monster that was summoned with Relay Soul; this wins regardless of cards in hand, cards in deck, or life totals
00:33:11 <ais523> also, Sales Ban is very useful for preventing activation of any effects that would screw things up, it has a lingering effect that applies to one specific card name and lasts the whole Duel
00:33:48 <ais523> ah wait, no, LaDD has to be controlled by the opponent because otherwise Beargram wouldn't work
00:34:38 <ais523> maybe there's an alternative card that works
00:35:02 <b_jonas> so now you have to find useful conditionals?
00:38:24 <ais523> either that, or a third counter
00:38:35 <ais523> even that needs useful conditionals, but they don't need to be quite so useful
00:40:48 <b_jonas> are there cards that let you read life totals in a way that isn't monotonic such that the player loses more if they have lower life total? like Death's Shadow in M:tG
00:40:58 <ais523> I managed to figure out a way to read monster ATK (you use Mystik Wok to tribute a monster and gain life equal to its ATK, and it gets banished by Dimensional Fissure, then you get it back with Dimension Distortion), although Mystik Wok is a quick-play and I'm not sure whether that messes things up
00:41:15 <ais523> there are a few lifepoint-halving effects
00:41:30 <ais523> and some which hurt you if you have higher lifepoints than the opponent, but heal you if you have lower
00:41:50 <ais523> also one that averages lifepoints with the opponent
00:42:04 <ais523> (unfortunately, there is rounding, which means you can't store information in the fractional part)
00:42:39 <ais523> Supremacy Berry says "If your Life Points were lower than your opponent's when this card was activated, gain 2000 Life Points. If your Life Points were higher than your opponent's, you take 1000 damage.", that's the sort of effect that seems useful for computation
00:44:31 <b_jonas> that sounds like you need a third counter though
00:45:05 <b_jonas> (life total reading effects aren't that common in M:tG either of course)
00:45:18 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141921&oldid=141215 * Cocosbeans * (+1251) added Racket and Rainbo
00:47:47 <ais523> yes, a third counter really seems important for this sort of construction
00:48:41 <ais523> although, in the Netrunner counter I used three but it might have been doable with two, but that's primarily because I had workable control flow with the rezzed/derezzed status of cards in Archives, making it possible to have four different multiply/divide loops (×2, ×3, ÷2, ÷3)
00:49:41 <ais523> so the counters were normally used as one counter to store data, and one counter to store the instruction pointer – but when doing the multiplication/division, in my construction it multiplies/divides onto the third counter *but* it could have instead used the instruction pointer counter as a temporary
00:49:58 <b_jonas> M:tG has a lot of effects that let you use a creature's toughness or power or toughness minus marked damage as a counter, and I kind of expect that YGO would have something similar even if it's not as frequent as in M:tG
00:50:31 <ais523> the problem is, if you're using the instruction pointer as a temporary, you need something else to remember which multiplication/division you're doing
00:50:37 <b_jonas> I said third counter specifically because of the effect that's just based on the difference between your life total and the opponent's
00:51:26 <ais523> it is hard to read power in Magic, and hard to read toughness without marking damage, but toughness minus damage marked has a very clear effect
00:51:43 <ais523> this doesn't work so well in YGO, if you reduce a monster's DEF to 0 it doesn't get destroyed or anything, it just stays there
00:52:25 <ais523> there is one infamous card (infamous because it creates some really incomprehensible judge rulings), called Pole Position, that says that the monster with the highest ATK is unaffected by other cards
00:52:55 <ais523> normally "unaffected" is restricted to activated effects in order to make it easy to understand, but Pole Position doesn't have that, it makes it unaffected by continuous/static effects too
00:53:43 <ais523> so say if a monster has 1900 ATK, and another monster has 2000 ATK, and I equip the 1900 ATK monster with an equip spell that increases ATK by 500
00:54:02 <ais523> this creates a paradox, and the rules for this changed quite recently
00:54:22 <ais523> unfortunately, they are subjective, and specify that the card most responsible for the issue is destroyed
00:54:55 <ais523> I think there is an unofficial rule to hold Pole Position responsible whenever it is involved, but in general it is hard to know which card would be affected
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00:56:06 <ais523> (the MTGO equivalent for YGO seems to work by following the dependency cycle for 16 steps and then destroying whatever card is next in the list, which at least makes it possible to continue the game but often makes a fairly arbitrary-seeming choice; it also doesn't implement Pole Position)
00:57:41 <ais523> anyway, I have resigned myself to the fact that Pole Position is very likely to be involved in the TCness construction, but I don't really want to use it, both because it would prevent testing the construction online, and because it is so hard to understand all the consequences of that card being in play
00:59:29 <b_jonas> some amount of rules complications is to be expected for such a construction, but ideally it shouldn't descend to the "infamous" level
00:59:35 <ais523> it's probably OK if monsters have their ATK changed only via activated effects
01:07:06 <ais523> oh no, I just realised that the card that gains life equal to a monster's ATK can choose its DEF instead, so the two would need to always be equal or the card is unusable
01:09:58 <ais523> there seems to be exactly one permanent ATK-doubler (Cubic Wave), which unfortunately is quite specific but might still be usable
01:15:27 <ais523> hmm, permanently increasing the LaDD's ATK to counteract the permanent decreases seems hard; Kashtira Overlap might be usable?
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01:30:08 <ais523> oh wow, Gingerbread House is perfect for keeping the LaDD active
01:33:44 <ais523> oh, no it isn't, it's optional
01:33:49 <ais523> I hate how many effects in YGO are optional
01:43:20 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141922&oldid=141807 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+12) /* Tests */
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01:44:46 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141926&oldid=141925 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+14) /* Tests */
01:53:52 <esolangs> [[+++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141927&oldid=140650 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2) /* + compiled into +++ */
01:54:24 <esolangs> [[+++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141928&oldid=141927 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-9) /* + compiled into +++ */
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02:19:21 <zzo38> I had once written a acorn card in Magic: the Gathering that says this card is not affected by layer 2 to 7 effects. That is what some of the stuff I read above, reminded me of.
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06:25:59 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141932&oldid=141926 * PrySigneToFry * (+22) Manually remove residue from sandbox pages and make another test
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06:26:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141934&oldid=141932 * PrySigneToFry * (-46) Both b tags and strong tags have the ability to bold text
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07:14:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141940&oldid=141930 * None1 * (+272) /* ban tommyawsome */
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09:12:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Autoconfirmed users]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141951&oldid=141950 * PrySigneToFry * (+1) Fixed
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09:53:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:MASM/Print A]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=141961 * PrySigneToFry * (+282) I found a "Hello, world!" program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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10:42:30 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141976&oldid=141861 * Iddi01 * (+123) /* General languages */
10:46:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My Rate to the user that I know]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141977&oldid=141975 * DifferentDance8 * (+62) /* 85 */ new section
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10:57:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[C Plus Minus Plus Minus]] to [[C]]
10:57:13 <esolangs> [[C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141983&oldid=141981 * Ractangle * (-27)
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11:24:20 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141988&oldid=141987 * None1 * (-28) clean
11:26:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My Rate to the user that I know]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141989&oldid=141980 * None1 * (+266)
11:27:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My Rate to the user that I know]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141990&oldid=141989 * None1 * (+0)
11:35:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141991&oldid=141988 * MihaiEso * (+16)
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12:04:44 <esolangs> [[Abuse filter 15 makes no sense]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=141992 * Unname4798 * (+274) Created page with "<!-- This is a joke --> Unname4798 and Tommyaweosme aren't allowed to edit others' user pages and user talk pages. allowed("User:Unname4798/test") = 0 allowed("User:Unname4798") = 1 pageName("User:Unname4798") = pageName("User:Unname4798/test
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12:05:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Abuse filter 15 makes no sense]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=141993 * Yayimhere * (+105) Created page with "...this is stupid ~~~~"
12:10:36 <esolangs> [[Abuse filter 15 makes no sense]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141994&oldid=141992 * Unname4798 * (+8)
12:11:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:Abuse filter 15 makes no sense]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141995&oldid=141993 * Unname4798 * (+184)
12:11:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Abuse filter 15 makes no sense]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141996&oldid=141995 * Unname4798 * (+14)
12:13:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Abuse filter 15 makes no sense]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141997&oldid=141996 * Yayimhere * (+234)
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13:12:27 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=141998&oldid=140965 * PrySigneToFry * (+124)
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13:36:59 <esolangs> [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=141999 * MihaiEso * (+3386) Created page with "'''Poetic''' is a esolang made by Mihai Popa. The programs are made of English text. == How it works == It divides the words in letters, and it counts. * If a word is less than 10 letters long, the value is that single digit * If a word is 10 letters long,
13:37:28 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142000&oldid=141962 * MihaiEso * (+50)
13:38:44 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142001&oldid=141974 * MihaiEso * (+43) /* P */
13:47:42 <esolangs> [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142002&oldid=141999 * MihaiEso * (+0) /* How it works */
13:54:08 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142003&oldid=141998 * Ractangle * (+20)
13:54:25 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142004&oldid=142003 * Ractangle * (+1)
14:07:48 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142005&oldid=141134 * MihaiEso * (+149) /* */
14:07:56 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142006&oldid=142005 * MihaiEso * (+4) /* Make this even scrr! */
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14:32:43 <esolangs> [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142007&oldid=142002 * None1 * (-57) No because memory is limited
14:33:19 <esolangs> [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142008&oldid=142007 * None1 * (-79) /* Computational class */
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15:10:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:Dependently Typed Binary Lambda Calculus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142009 * Tromp * (+338) mention alternative implementation of CoC in blc.
15:19:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:Abuse filter 15 makes no sense]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142010&oldid=141997 * Aadenboy * (+328)
15:23:38 <esolangs> [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142011&oldid=142008 * PrySigneToFry * (+76)
15:24:36 <esolangs> [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142012&oldid=142011 * PrySigneToFry * (+40)
15:25:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142013&oldid=142006 * PrySigneToFry * (+628)
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15:35:01 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142014&oldid=141703 * PrySigneToFry * (+27)
15:35:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142015&oldid=141991 * PrySigneToFry * (+53)
15:35:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142016&oldid=142015 * PrySigneToFry * (-29) Another test
15:37:19 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142017&oldid=142016 * PrySigneToFry * (-24) HTML supports s tag and u tag, but didn't support underline tag, but support strike tag
15:41:52 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142018&oldid=141939 * Ractangle * (-4) /* NOP/Infinite loop */
15:43:51 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142019&oldid=142018 * Ractangle * (+41) /* Syntax */
15:44:46 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142020&oldid=142019 * Ractangle * (-8) /* NOP/Infinite loop */
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15:50:18 <esolangs> [[Trampolines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142021&oldid=129167 * Aadenboy * (+110) /* Example Programs */ infinite loops!
15:52:49 <esolangs> [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142022&oldid=142012 * MihaiEso * (+195)
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16:12:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:90]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142023&oldid=140352 * Yayimhere * (+25)
16:13:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:90]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142024&oldid=142023 * Yayimhere * (+88)
16:15:34 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-Z)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142025&oldid=141921 * Aadenboy * (+1356) added trampolines
16:17:14 <esolangs> [[Trampolines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142026&oldid=142021 * Aadenboy * (+1424) /* Example Programs */ added deadfish implementation
16:20:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [["Template:Wayback"]] to [[Xuki]]
16:27:37 <esolangs> [[Input hello world or else without a quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142029&oldid=138487 * Unname4798 * (+2)
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16:29:24 <esolangs> [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142030&oldid=142027 * Ractangle * (+315)
16:31:08 <esolangs> [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142031&oldid=142030 * Ractangle * (+0)
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17:43:44 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142032&oldid=142020 * Ractangle * (-8) Curly fish moves differently
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18:28:50 <esolangs> [[Egnufeb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142033 * Emelang * (+1374) made the page
18:29:02 <esolangs> [[Egnufeb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142034&oldid=142033 * Emelang * (-35)
18:30:32 <esolangs> [[Egnufeb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142035&oldid=142034 * Emelang * (+4)
18:34:43 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142036&oldid=142032 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Infinite loop */
18:34:59 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142037&oldid=142036 * Ractangle * (-69) /* Syntax */
18:35:13 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142038&oldid=142037 * Ractangle * (-4) /* Syntax */
18:37:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Maia * New user account
18:43:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142039&oldid=141572 * Maia * (+174)
18:48:34 <esolangs> [[User:Emelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142040&oldid=141198 * Ractangle * (+13)
18:50:54 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142041&oldid=108926 * Maia * (+83) added case error
19:34:03 <esolangs> [[UserNo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142042&oldid=106411 * Emelang * (-91) /* Implementations */
19:43:44 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142043&oldid=141959 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2)
19:45:28 <esolangs> [[TW'sLE!!!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142044&oldid=141967 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+58) Categories
19:48:28 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Help]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142045&oldid=141944 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+4) /* Where to test things out */
19:51:01 <esolangs> [[Egnufeb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142046&oldid=142035 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+87) Categories
19:51:31 <esolangs> [[Egnufeb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142047&oldid=142046 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Examples */ Formatting
19:52:21 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142048&oldid=141938 * Ractangle * (+2)
19:54:03 <esolangs> [[Template:Altun]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142049 * Ractangle * (+66) Created page with ":This user has other nicknames such as {{{1}}}|, {{{2}}}|, {{{3}}}"
19:54:22 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142050&oldid=142048 * Ractangle * (-6)
19:56:32 <esolangs> [[Template:Altun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142051&oldid=142049 * Ractangle * (-19)
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20:49:30 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142052&oldid=142043 * Ractangle * (+22)
20:59:34 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142053&oldid=142038 * Ractangle * (+283) /* Syntax */
21:00:25 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142054&oldid=142053 * Ractangle * (+17)
21:02:33 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142055&oldid=142054 * Ractangle * (+47) /* Syntax */
21:06:06 <zzo38> I had tried to compile a C program that I had written, that uses OpenSSL, on another computer, and says that OPENSSL_config is not available (resulting in a compiler warning about implicit declaration), and a linker error due to ERR_print_errors_fp not being available (although that did not result in a compiler warning). Do you know what is wrong with it?
21:06:47 <zzo38> (The program compiled when the calls to those functions were commented out, although the result is then that error messages are not handled)
21:21:21 <b_jonas> zzo38: is this about OpenSSL having two incompatible major versions and you're trying to link to the other one?
21:22:18 <b_jonas> it's infamous because they're incompatible in such a stupid way that it can lead to correct programs in the earlier major version to become insecure when you try to adapt them to the newer major version, or so I've heard
21:24:55 <zzo38> I didn't know that, and I also don't know how to fix it. Can #if and/or #ifdef commands be used (and if so, how is it needed to be done)?
21:32:27 <esolangs> [[Lol waht i cant edit talk pages]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142056 * Tommyaweosme * (+734) Created page with "{{lowercase}}lol waht i cant edit talk pages is an esolang made by [[user:tommyaweosme]] because of the admins of this very wiki. == commands == user:? - defines new variable called ? edit user talk:? to remove n messages - subtracts n from
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21:42:27 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know about the specifics of OpenSSL, I only heard these as rumors.
21:45:11 <int-e> One of those functions is deprecated. The other is behind a conditional flag that /might/ be disabled, https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/master/crypto/err/err_prn.c#L176-L186
21:45:27 <int-e> Or it may be something entirely different, of course.
21:45:44 <int-e> It's a software problem after all.
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22:05:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Abuse filter 15 makes no sense]]": offtopic
22:13:36 <int-e> ais523: I admire your willingness to come up with narrow blocks like that
22:14:02 <zzo38> I had partially written a ASN.1 BER parser; so far it handles constructed types and can convert object identifiers into decimal format.
22:15:27 <ais523> int-e: thanks – in a way I can get away with it because the wiki is still fairly small, so blocks that need a lot of manual monitoring are still possible
22:15:41 <ais523> although, the wiki is now long past the point where it's reasonable to read every edit
22:15:54 <int-e> ais523: should the accompanying talk page Talk:Abuse_filter_15_makes_no_sense be deleted too?
22:16:04 <ais523> it is a deletion discussion
22:16:30 <ais523> in the very early days of Wikipedia, back when it was small, this is apparently how deletions were handled, and it's how Esolang has been doing it for years
22:16:48 <ais523> there is still an exception in Wikipedia's rules to not delete talk pages if they contain discussion of why the corresponding non-talk page was deleted
22:16:58 <ais523> even though it hasn't been relevant for decades now
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22:19:57 <b_jonas> "long past the point where it's reasonable to read every edit" => I was considering to suggest to take a shortcut and time out everyone who edited https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bbtos for a few months, but you probably wouldn't do that
22:20:23 <ais523> I think peopel are editing
22:20:37 <ais523> * people are editing that for the same reason they add Deadfish implementations
22:21:19 <ais523> the only pages I've ever had to split up due to getting large enough to stress technical limitations are a) the hello world page (makes sense), b) the deadfish implementations, and c) my talk page
22:21:52 <ais523> and the last of those really shouldn't have happened, although in retrospect it may have been inevitable (something similar happened to Jimbo Wales' talk page on Wikipedia)
22:23:04 <b_jonas> your user talk page is big because there isn't an obvious "Administrator's noticeboard" page so we're using it in its stead
22:23:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:90]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142057&oldid=142024 * Ais523 * (+326) it's wrong
22:24:12 <ais523> b_jonas: right – and that's probably because we've never needed an admin noticeboard
22:24:42 <ais523> (and with only one frequently active admin, I guess it makes sense to use the page that pings them?)
22:31:27 <b_jonas> you'd think part of the reason why your user talk page is so big is that you create interesting esolangs and the main reference to them is on the wiki and users message you because of that, but it turns out that's very little of the user talk page
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22:38:57 <zzo38> In ASN.1 the low bit of a byte is called "bit1", but if ASN.2 is made up then "bit0" would be better for the low bit, I think.
22:49:53 <esolangs> [[Translated Poetic Mihai]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142058 * MihaiEso * (+3174) Created page with "'''Translated Poetic Mihai''' is a esolang made by Mihai Popa. It's [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)|Poetic]] but horribly translated with crappy languages. 1. Take this example <pre> Add experience and goodness. You love this content The color is very good, For
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22:51:00 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142059&oldid=141976 * MihaiEso * (+94) /* Horribly translated variants */
22:53:44 <esolangs> [[Translated Poetic Mihai]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142060&oldid=142058 * MihaiEso * (+28)
22:53:56 <esolangs> [[Translated SRL++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142061&oldid=140720 * MihaiEso * (+115)
22:54:58 <esolangs> [[Translated CreativeASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142062&oldid=139157 * MihaiEso * (+9)
22:56:33 <esolangs> [[0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142063&oldid=141146 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+24) /* G# */
23:00:07 <esolangs> [[5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142064&oldid=141482 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+25)
23:23:59 <ais523> what's the correct way to delete one letter in vi? I tried dl but it didn't work
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23:24:36 <zzo38> You can push x or delete to delete a single character
23:25:11 <ais523> dl *does* work in vim, which I'm more used to
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23:34:21 <esolangs> [[Esofish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142065&oldid=141102 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+34)
23:37:30 <esolangs> [[Empty]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142066&oldid=137985 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+36) /* Fibonacci sequence */
23:50:04 <esolangs> [[Curly Fish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142067&oldid=142055 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+106) Categories
23:51:45 <esolangs> [[Lol waht i cant edit talk pages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142068&oldid=142056 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+96) Categories