00:00:14 <pgimeno> (actually that can also be seen as a good security measure)
00:00:48 <GregorR> On my end, that's solved, I just need to send the proper index files.
00:01:06 <GregorR> I'd noticed that as well ;)
00:01:52 <GregorR> So I'll send the index files to you at about 4:30AM (your time zone) - will you be up? ;)
00:04:25 <pgimeno> the email is in a PM (sorry, one never knows if a spambot will also read IRC logs)
00:04:58 <kipple> I have given up hiding my email. Now I rely on spam filters insted
00:05:40 <GregorR> I just give fake email addresses.
00:05:48 <GregorR> I don't get much email that way ....
00:05:58 <GregorR> But I don't get much sam either!
00:06:19 <GregorR> BTW, my address is PresidentGregor@whitehouse.gov
00:07:29 <pgimeno> reminds me of that story... "BTW, my IP address is 127.0.0.1"
00:07:50 <kipple> There's no place like 127.0.0.1
00:08:17 <pgimeno> "hehe I'm formatting your HD you idiot"... PING TIMEOUT
00:08:38 <Keymaker> or at least something like that
00:08:50 <kipple> was on slashdot recently
00:09:01 <pgimeno> that's a very reduced version actually
00:09:34 <kipple> if the story's true...
00:09:46 <Keymaker> yeah.. hey, i am lame because i use firewall :)
00:10:05 <pgimeno> probably one of these... http://funny.evilbunny.org/display/1808/
00:10:50 <GregorR> I usually avoid being hacked by writing my entire operating system from the ground up in-house and never releasing the source code.
00:11:07 <GregorR> Works real well, and only takes a few years per iteration.
00:12:59 <Keymaker> iirc the guy said something like "gimme your ip #€&(/" and i'll send you a virus #€)(/€)(#!!1"
00:17:46 <kipple> speaking of homemade OSes: Have anyone tried the BF OS loader?
00:18:01 <kipple> was posted on the brainfuck mailing list a while ago
00:22:27 <kipple> http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/bf.html
00:23:45 <Keymaker> yet still (iirc) calamari says he can't program in bf very well :)
00:24:29 <kipple> Ah, so Jeffrey is calamari :) good to know
00:28:36 <Keymaker> when i tried earlier today to invent some esoteric language mascot
00:28:58 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/ork.png
00:29:25 <kipple> is that supposed to be greg?
00:29:31 <Keymaker> GregorR: don't take it seriously; ORK and your hats are cool :)
00:29:51 <GregorR> I was wondering if that was one of my hats :-P
00:30:07 <GregorR> Though that creature isn't exactly an Or[ck]
00:30:31 <kipple> so, what's the most esoteric animal I wonder....
00:30:46 <GregorR> OOH, one sec, I know what it is!
00:30:54 <GregorR> I have to find it on Wikipedia again, just giive me a sec
00:32:35 <GregorR> Trying to paste over VNC = not fun
00:32:58 <GregorR> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichoplax
00:37:02 <kipple> maybe cryptozoology is the place to look :)
00:37:06 <kipple> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptozoology
00:44:11 <GregorR> Incidentally, I don't wear glasses, so where did those come from?
00:44:48 <Keymaker> i was just trying to make esomascot
00:44:59 <Keymaker> and then got the idea to make it wear your hate
00:45:14 <Keymaker> and then i thought about adding some reference to ORK to that picture
00:45:45 <Keymaker> and those are just some strange eyes although they look like eyes
00:45:48 <GregorR> Seems like an oddly specific esomascot X-D
00:45:54 <kipple> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo
00:48:49 <Keymaker> this picture needs a *LOT* work:
00:48:49 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/mascots.png
00:49:00 <Keymaker> (and don't blame me, i don't have visual memory!)
00:58:27 <Keymaker> oh, and some lines up i meant to say they're just eyes although they look like eyeglasses
01:00:10 <Keymaker> well. anyways, i'm tired, and it's 3:03 am here
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04:33:25 <GregorR-L> w00t! My kipple tokenization finally works 8-D
07:01:57 <GregorR-L> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/placozoan.png
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07:14:12 <GregorR-L> You're in yet another time zone from everybody else X-D
07:15:04 <GregorR-L> Makes your IRC client respond with your computer's time.
07:16:15 <GregorR-L> Quite the wide range this channel has.
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07:49:36 <Keymaker> i should just upload other than test-index
07:50:44 <Keymaker> GregorR: so you got the kipple interpreter working?!
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08:06:09 <GregorR> I got the TOKENIZATION working.
08:06:18 <GregorR> I'm still a ways off from the full interpreter ;)
08:06:36 <GregorR> I can read in a kipple file and figure out what's a number, what's a stack, what's an operation, and organize it as such.
08:06:58 <GregorR> So did you see my mascot? ;)
08:08:13 <Keymaker> remember to look closely what the manual says about all the stuff
08:11:05 <Keymaker> this is important: "The program 1>a<2 a+a will result in a containing the values [1 4] and not [1 3]. Likewise for the - operator."
08:11:49 <GregorR> I'm going to accomplish that by peeking instead of popping for the + operator.
08:13:04 <Keymaker> wow -- so if.. i mean WHEN you have completed the kipple interpreter, ORK can create the C file that can be compiled..?
08:13:24 <Keymaker> and then we'll get interpreter written in C! that i can use on computer!
08:14:26 <Keymaker> it's kinda fun that the first interpreter (other than kipple's (person)) is written in esolang
08:17:20 <Keymaker> btw, do you have work today gregorr?
08:17:34 <Keymaker> or can you hack the interpreter all the day ;)
08:25:32 <GregorR> Well, it's 12:26AM for me right now :-P
08:25:36 <GregorR> So if you mean Saturday, no I don't.
08:51:48 <Keymaker> but well. gotta do some annoying studying today.. bye
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09:14:51 <pgimeno> Keymaker: congrats on your brand-new domain!
11:23:11 <fizzie> Mhnhmm... morning, assorted humans and others.
11:24:54 * pgimeno wonders which side is he(it?) on ;)
11:28:15 <fizzie> Well, it is the future already (past-2000), some of you might be computer programs. Although I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of flying cars... and the orbital-elevator-thing is still missing, too.
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12:19:28 <fizzie> I am trying out Lucene, apache project's text search engine thing.
12:19:56 <Keymaker> does it search text from internet or where?
12:20:32 <fizzie> Wherever you like. It doesn't include a web-crawler, though, it's just a search engine engine.
12:21:08 <fizzie> I'm using it to index the messages in Darkhive, but seems it'll take over 8 hours to build the index. (I'm estimating the speed as ~10 discussion-threads per second.)
12:22:25 <Keymaker> heh. there's plenty o' content
12:22:51 <fizzie> It might be faster once I add words like "ei", "joo" and such to the stop-word-list so it doesn't bother indexing those. I was going to build the index without any stop words first, since apparently you can get some term frequency information from the index, so I can check what are the most common words used there.
12:37:41 <Keymaker> (hour-lag reply..) pgimento: thanks
12:45:05 <Keymaker> should i add the programs to my site as block form
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13:04:47 <Keymaker> i'm just about to upload the first version of bf-hacks
13:05:39 <kipple> ha, Royal Brainfuck Society :D
13:08:06 <kipple> gotta go eat some breakfast. I'll check it out later
13:10:32 <Keymaker> now i should make more programs that would be worth of adding
13:11:03 -!- Keymaker has set topic: A new brainfuck site http://www.bf-hacks.org/ is opened!.
13:18:21 <Keymaker> now i should draw the 'favicon' or whatever that small picture is called that appears in most browsers when going to some site
13:28:59 -!- Keymaker has set topic: Another brainfuck site (http://www.bf-hacks.org/) is open!.
13:37:14 <kipple> so, will there be only BF stuff there?
13:37:51 <kipple> then maybe you should link to you other site...
13:38:11 <Keymaker> i'll do that probably sometime
13:38:30 <Keymaker> i just wonder where i would place the link..
13:39:00 <Keymaker> as well, must update yiap to add this link
13:40:28 <kipple> good colors. Much better than my black text on white background pages
13:42:24 <Keymaker> first i thought about pink background and yellow text, but this seemed a bit better
13:43:00 <kipple> ouch. would that even be readable?
14:05:09 <Keymaker> i try to make myself study for a while, so i close the computer. if don't close it i wouldn'tr ead :)
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15:50:39 <Keymaker> how it can be that lens can get so completely lost?! i've searched everywhere
15:57:35 <kipple> maybe because you can't see without it ;)
16:01:15 <Keymaker> well, i can keep my left eye closed
16:43:42 <pgimeno> glasses have the bad costume of being transparent
16:48:04 <Keymaker> as well, i finally found them couple of minutes ago
16:48:14 <Keymaker> now i'm trying to insert the lens back
16:50:04 <pgimeno> oh, congrats! it must have been quite uncomfortable to look for it with an eye closed
16:51:04 <Keymaker> ever noticed that if you lose some stuff you find it from a place you assume it never could get? :)
16:52:03 <Keymaker> i found these under my table. i didn't assume a lens could fly that far..
16:52:21 <pgimeno> everybody knows lenses don't fly :P
16:53:49 <Keymaker> too bad i can't fit it back completely
16:57:39 <pgimeno> grr, so many Debian packages changed since my last upgrade... I'm afraid I'll have to update the list
16:58:14 <pgimeno> any recommended graphical FTP client?
16:58:25 <pgimeno> I was about to install gftp, don't know how good or bad it is
17:00:24 <pgimeno> ok, then it may be worth downloading it separately and installing instead of upgrading
17:00:49 -!- Keymaker has quit ("Freedom!").
17:50:07 <pgimeno> There is a scribe called pgimeno. There is a writer called GregorR. When GregorR is around: GregorR is to page pgimeno. If pgimeno's answer is hello: GregorR is to tell pgimeno if it's OK that pgimeno updates ork/index.html himself. If GregorR's answer is yes: pgimeno is to finish updating GregorR pages' mirror.
17:54:32 <pgimeno> I'm heating engines to write that deCSS descrambler :)
17:55:40 <pgimeno> well, not actually... unless someone lends me a "pause time" button
17:56:04 <kipple> never got it to work anyway ;)
17:56:42 <pgimeno> doh, in the meantime I'll put "fix kipple's pause-time button" in the queue
18:02:43 <fizzie> Is there an ORK syntax highlighting file for vim yet?
18:03:52 <pgimeno> nope, maybe GregorR forgot to include it ;)
18:08:01 <fizzie> Maybe I should write one, then try to use ORK for something. It must be a great language, since everyone's talking about it nowadays.
18:12:42 <fizzie> I lack a suitable project, though.
18:13:05 <pgimeno> I have one, do you want it?
18:17:07 <fizzie> If it's that deCSS thing, I probably don't.
18:18:13 <fizzie> Is that ork-0.7 a current version of the distribution?
18:18:16 <pgimeno> oh, it was worth trying anyway
18:24:17 <fizzie> Ork only has number and string arrays, not arrays of generic classes? Aw.
19:20:13 <fizzie> Hmmm. If I write "blablah is to foo 1", when blablah is a member of class that "can foo a number", it compiles to foo(1) and then g++ complains, because the actual function is a foo(double& ref). This is annoying. Do I need to store all arguments to temporary variables? Admittedly it adds to the oh-so-nice verbosity, but...
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19:21:48 <pgimeno> hm... disable the warning?
19:21:56 <fizzie> It's not a warning, it's an error.
19:22:04 <fizzie> You can't convert a constant to a reference, obviously.
19:22:24 <fizzie> Also, if I want a big ( >= 2^31 ) numerical constant, I need to use nnnn.0 instead of nnnn, which is a bit.. undesirable, since I really shouldn't have to know about the generated C++ code.
19:22:38 <fizzie> (That's an error too. error: integer constant is too large for "long" type
19:22:50 <pgimeno> oh, double& is byref... sorry I'm not much into C+
19:24:42 <pgimeno> I guess GregorR didn't care much about documenting integer limits
19:25:07 <fizzie> Well, all the numbers are doubles, it's just that the constant needs a .0 at the end.
19:25:37 <fizzie> There could be some sort of identifier renaming thing, too. I can't have a function called "xor" now, since that's a reserved C++ keyword apparently.
19:26:38 <pgimeno> oh, yes I agree on the renaming
19:27:07 <pgimeno> hopefully my interpreter will cope with these issues
19:31:11 <fizzie> Heh, doing logical operations is quite fun, too. I would like to test for some bits, but the "1" I get from 124421.000000 / 4.000000 % 2.000000 is different from the "1" I get from a constant 1, due to floating-point inaccurancies, so they don't compare as 'equals'.
19:35:02 <fizzie> But it's so _verbose_.
19:35:18 <fizzie> Anyway, turns out that in this particular case they are the same 1.0s. Still, I'm sure I'm going to get bitten by floating point things.
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19:36:12 <pgimeno> quite likely; Real Programmers do FP math with integers
19:37:29 <Keymaker> :) ah, yes. integers are the best
19:39:43 <Keymaker> what was the key combination to stop program in dos console? (i'm in win xp this time)
19:40:40 <pgimeno> ctrl+c tends to work less reliably
19:47:02 <Keymaker> i got my first thue program done
19:47:27 <Keymaker> that is basically the same than hello world
19:47:40 <Keymaker> but now i think i got how this particular program works
20:15:20 <fizzie> I'm trying to write a crc32 calculator in ORK to get a feeling on how easy it's to do bit-fiddling in.
20:16:21 <fizzie> So "I am to loop" is an implicit keyword, not a call to function 'loop'?
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20:21:30 <GregorR> Yeah, I realize the issue with putting a constant in an argument ...
20:21:37 <GregorR> I'll add that to my todo list.
20:22:02 <GregorR> And you can integerize something by modulo-ing it with a very high number.
20:22:18 <GregorR> I forgot to make a floor operation 8-D
20:24:16 <GregorR> Or you could add a floor to libork *shrugs*
20:26:30 <fizzie> Oh, so modulo is the integer operation and not a fmod()-like thing?
20:26:46 <fizzie> Heh, at least http://gehennom.org/~fis/crc.ork now builds _something_ in lookup table. It's probably not correct, though.
20:27:42 <GregorR> My next iteration will add: 1) Proper handling of constants, 2) Bitwise operators, 3) A floor operator.
20:27:49 <GregorR> Since these are what "the people" seem to need ;)
20:29:08 <fizzie> Wahh. Did I write my logician class for no reason if there's going to be a built-in bitwise operation class? :p
20:29:44 <GregorR> If your logician works, maybe it will become the first internal class written in real ORK ;)
20:30:13 <fizzie> Well, I guess it does work, but it only calculates xor for now, since that's the only thing I needed.
20:30:35 <fizzie> I also added a convenience method to do "&1" and get an easy way to branch on it.
20:30:37 <GregorR> I can't access the file :(
20:30:42 <fizzie> A logician has a helper which is a mathematician.
20:30:57 <GregorR> 4) User-defined classes need to be able to "say"
20:31:17 <fizzie> That'd be nice. Currently you need to do "If Frege's helper says it's equal"
20:31:51 <GregorR> I'll implement 1, 3 and 4 some time tonight.
20:31:53 <fizzie> I wonder what's the problem with that web server. Someone said it works with a 'www.' prefix. Strange.
20:32:48 <GregorR> Looks like you need to fenagle your DNS.
20:32:54 * GregorR goes off, to come back later.
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20:38:48 <Kmkr> what do you need to crash win xp?
20:38:54 <Kmkr> -change user for a while
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21:06:28 <Keymaker> and i also understand now how to make finite loops
21:06:28 <Keymaker> l::=~This line will be printed five times.
21:08:27 <pgimeno> (you can count with it with not much effort)
21:08:28 <Keymaker> :) laurent has done it already
21:09:11 <pgimeno> I guess replacing 9->8, 8->7, etc. can make it count down
21:09:29 <pgimeno> (with some marker or whatever)
21:10:04 <pgimeno> oh, yeah, that's where I got lament's link from
21:11:19 <fizzie> Unary arithmetic is easiest. You just need a long string of 'x's.
21:11:25 <fizzie> That's what I've used in most of my sed programs.
21:12:21 <fizzie> Although my fibonacci calculator used decimal numbers and had a decimal addition part.
21:18:03 <GregorR> Now, should I bring out my laptop and work on the Kipple interpreter or ORK 0.8 ....
21:18:08 <GregorR> Or should I do more yard work ....
21:18:52 <GregorR> Y'know, that yard work does sound mighty appealing.
21:18:54 <Keymaker> let the nature take care of that yard ;)
21:19:09 <GregorR> Right now we're killing everything.
21:19:48 <GregorR> Sadly, I HAVE to do yard work, where as I don't HAVE to do the Kipple interpreter, so see you in 30 min or so >_O
21:26:45 <fizzie> There was a thue interpreter somewhere?
21:33:15 <fizzie> I tried thue.c, but I'm not sure it works correctly.
21:33:42 <Keymaker> are you sure your program is correct? ;)
21:34:31 <fizzie> No, but I'm running this in the debugging mode and it does:
21:34:51 <fizzie> Where the only "cg" production is "cg::=gc"
21:35:18 <lament> http://z3.ca/~lament/thue.html
21:35:38 <lament> except that it seems down
21:35:56 <lament> (but there was that waybackmachine link in the channel log)
21:41:44 <fizzie> Mm. Well, that javascript interpreter did do what I was expecting it to.
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22:41:54 <GregorR-L> And I also covered a bug that would allow you to say something like:
22:52:45 <GregorR-L> Now, to make classes able to say things.
23:01:07 <fizzie> How's the syntax like? 'Foo can say ..'?
23:03:26 <fizzie> 'k. Hmnnn.. then there was some strangeness in the naming. Seems I can't use multi-word method names. :/ They work correctly in invocations ("lookup table is to print out the table" => "... print_out_the_table()") but not in function declarations, which uses only 'print' as the name and (possibly) assumes the rest to be a parameter specifier or something.
23:03:52 <fizzie> Not a horrible problem, though.
23:03:57 <GregorR-L> It's a problem of English grammar.
23:04:16 <GregorR-L> "My object is to mercilessly devour Bob."
23:04:37 <GregorR-L> The parser would have to actually know the difference between adjectives, verbs and nouns.
23:04:43 <GregorR-L> And I'm not willing to go there ;)
23:04:50 <GregorR-L> So methods need to have one word names :P
23:05:49 <fizzie> Well, you could try to find the longest or shortest matching method name. But I guess it's not necessary.
23:06:08 <GregorR-L> For the sake of my sanity, I'm leaving it as it is for the moment ;)
23:06:29 <fizzie> I'm too tired to do anything ork-ish today (01am and I actually need to wake up tomorrow), but I'll convert my logician to use that funky new 'say' system when I have time.
23:07:18 <GregorR-L> I didn't implement a logician class ;)
23:08:18 <fizzie> For not implementing the logician. :p
23:09:13 <GregorR-L> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/ork/ < 0.8 is out
23:25:24 <Keymaker> here's my first real thue program:
23:25:25 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/thue/digitalr.t
23:25:45 <Keymaker> it calculates the digital root
23:25:57 <Keymaker> (yeah, i know, it's my traditional program..)
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23:29:11 <fizzie> Fibonacci is my traditional program, usually closely followed by a befunge interpreter.
23:30:15 <GregorR-L> Fibonacci was my first ORK program.