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00:03:36 <GregorR> I wanted to release DN 0.5 today ...
00:03:39 <GregorR> But I don't think I can ...
00:03:42 <GregorR> I can't find this damn bug :'(
00:04:22 <GregorR> How much detail do I want to describe this in ...
00:04:37 <GregorR> When one side sends a direct connect request, it then stops receiving input.
00:04:40 <GregorR> For some inexplicable reason.
00:05:10 <Keymaker> hey, i know: "there is something wrong!"
00:05:33 <GregorR> I'm considering disabling DCR for this version, and fixing it later.
00:17:51 <Keymaker> here's a snack code to print 'A'
00:19:43 <Keymaker> here are the instructions so far: " ! + - = : < > ? #
00:24:26 <Keymaker> it will be there, probably character @
00:26:48 <Keymaker> actually the 'A' printing program would be two instructions longer in brainfuck :)
00:27:06 <Keymaker> and probably snack code can be squeezed. i'll try
00:29:17 <kipple> ! is for output? and it's the first instruction in the example?
00:29:45 <Keymaker> the program will be put into stack
00:29:52 <Keymaker> and it will be eaten from there
00:30:01 <Keymaker> program will be stopped when no instructions left
00:32:22 <calamari> keymaker: any gems for x = (y >= z)? I have code, but it's very long
00:32:59 <Keymaker> i guess i couldn't make very short non-wrapping code either
00:33:43 <calamari> I can't think of a non-wrapping way to find the cell size
00:33:56 <calamari> i.e... what is the maximum cell value
00:35:10 <Keymaker> but the good thing is one doesn't really need to know the maximum value. as long as the interpreter has bytes
00:35:15 <calamari> that means wrapping is more powerful.. for example the wrapping version of not works for all cell sizes
00:35:41 <Keymaker> but one shouldn't use other sizes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00:36:07 <Keymaker> well, that program doesn't know anything
00:36:48 <Keymaker> maybe it needs some rewriting ;)
00:37:14 <Keymaker> seriously, i don't mind if people use wrapping version
00:37:21 <Keymaker> but i'm just defending non-wrapping
00:37:48 <Keymaker> i mean i'm going to code my programs with non-wrapping 1-byte implementation
00:38:34 <kipple> the original distribution implies wrapping :)
00:38:44 <calamari> 1 byte = 8bits .. but could you do non-wrapping with 1 bit?
00:41:15 <Keymaker> and besides, non-wrapping is less implementation dependent
00:44:06 <calamari> how do you do non-wrapping subtraction? .. lets say 3 - 5 ?
00:44:32 <Keymaker> probably first check which one is bigger
00:44:59 <calamari> would you have a cell that specifies the sign ?
00:45:47 <calamari> if you come up with something, that could be used for x = -x :)
00:46:20 <calamari> that'd be pretty simple an operation now... sign = 1 - sign.. something like that :)
00:56:58 <Keymaker> it probably has nothing to do with 14 hours of sitting :)
00:58:10 <calamari> I end up sitting different ways throughout the day without even noticing the changes.. other people comment :)
01:02:45 <graue> I don't have any friends that I don't hate
01:03:21 <GregorR> You are all my sworn enemies ... and I love ya', every one.
01:03:57 <graue> calamari, what would that be? I'm confused
01:04:41 <graue> no, "if I hate someone, then he is my friend" is not true
01:05:33 <pgimeno> <graue> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/db/latest.sql.bz2
01:05:33 <pgimeno> <graue> it should now update on sundays at about 00:01 UTC, maybe a little later
01:05:33 <pgimeno> so can it be announced to the mailing list?
01:06:11 <pgimeno> what about the uploaded files?
01:06:35 <pgimeno> I'd like to upload a Piet program
01:06:43 <Keymaker> what announced on the mailing list?
01:06:55 <pgimeno> Keymaker: the database backup
01:08:31 <graue> hey, what if you have bit-sized cells, but incrementing 1 or decrementing 0 is an error that crashes your program?
01:08:37 <graue> that would be strange to deal with
01:09:40 <pgimeno> graue, please, could you set up a backup of the wiki uploads?
01:11:21 <calamari> graue: that's wrapping.. it's an error, lol
01:11:49 <calamari> graue: also can you alow me to upload files?
01:14:33 <graue> pgimeno, when there are too many to back them up manually, then yes
01:14:39 <graue> calamari, you should be allowed already
01:15:21 <pgimeno> hum, what happens in MediaWiki when a file is missing?
01:16:27 <pgimeno> I mean, if the file is not present in the uploads dir but the database indicates that it's there
01:17:52 <pgimeno> if not, people interested in mirroring will need to know what directories to put the mediawiki files in
01:18:30 <pgimeno> IIRC the dir name is made by looking at the first characters of a hash of the file's name
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03:45:45 <pgimeno> isn't this a correct nonwrapping "not x"?: temp0[-]x[temp0+x[-]]+temp0[-x-temp0]
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06:55:48 <calamari_> is any language that restricts memory to a finite amount a finite-state automaton?
06:56:59 <calamari_> trying to categorize one of my languages, and it would be turing complete, except ultimately there is a maximum amount of memory.. although that maximum amount is exceptionally large
06:59:52 <calamari_> 256^26 bytes.. 3.74x10^50 terabytes
07:01:26 <calamari_> wow, that's a lot of memory.. hehe :)
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10:12:46 <jix> anyone here ?
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10:26:47 <jix> before i went to france i just done my XUML interpreter(4 mins before i had to shutdown my computer).. i'm going to upload it and create a wiki page
11:06:01 <sp3tt> Would latin qualify as an esoteric language? lol
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14:11:16 <Keymaker> finally got around taking a look at appearance stuff in this mandrake
14:11:28 <Keymaker> now i'm finally feeling comfortable with the appearance
14:14:28 <graue> what window manager are you using?
14:15:07 <fizzie> Use evilvm, it's nice. No nonsense about menus or title bars or other unnecessities.
14:15:44 <Keymaker> i guess it's kde in case that is window manager. i'm a bit lost about the terminology
14:22:20 <graue> kde is a desktop environment, i'm not sure what window manager it normally uses
14:30:03 <fizzie> I think they call it Kwin.
14:41:51 <Keymaker> i. hate. overflow. stupid non-wrapping cells :p
15:11:37 <graue> i wish C had a balanced trinary type
15:11:44 <graue> or type checking for enums so i could make my own
15:11:51 <Keymaker> question: in which direction langton's ant is going when started?
15:12:19 <Keymaker> i can't find the start direction anywhere grrrrr
16:05:18 <graue> chocolated covered langton's ant
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16:46:59 <Keymaker> from esowiki: "fixed erroneous fix"
16:47:40 <Keymaker> probably means someone fixed stuff, and the noticed there was nothing wrong
16:49:12 <jix> Keymaker: my thue digital root program is shorter than yours :p
16:55:47 <graue> write a digital root program in qdeql
16:55:57 <graue> this is just a suggestion, not a command
17:01:16 <graue> an esoteric language of my invention
17:01:21 <graue> www.oceanbase.org/graue/qdeql
17:03:54 <Keymaker> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm indeed.. will take 10x times until i understand anything
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17:18:40 <harkeyahh> I thought this forum was aboutbusiness law
17:19:12 <kipple> how did you get that impression?? :D
17:19:22 <kipple> graue: about qdecl. I'm not familiar with the dequeue and enqueue opearations.
17:19:51 <kipple> is dequeue to take an element from the end of the queue, and enqueue to insert it at the beginning?
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17:27:07 <graue> kipple: although i normally consider the "beginning" of the queue to be the part you dequeue from
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18:13:54 <harkeyahh> I like this channel i am coming in now as a regular
18:14:24 <{^Raven^}> I was here 24/7 a while back, it's a nice place
18:15:13 <harkeyahh> I especially like the marble floors
18:23:30 <{^Raven^}> hi there Keymaker, long time no see
18:25:06 <Keymaker> but but.. how did that stop you accessing this channel?
18:25:35 <Keymaker> anyways, plenty of interesting has happened.
18:25:58 <{^Raven^}> Umm...very good point there, dunno.
18:26:22 <Keymaker> well, the esowiki that people have been actively updating and makin' is up at
18:26:39 <Keymaker> my brainfuck site http://www.bf-hacks.org/ is up
18:27:14 <Keymaker> and i made a simple polyglot quine:
18:27:15 <Keymaker> http://www.bf-hacks.org/hacks/pgq.b
18:27:52 <Keymaker> well, much more.. the logs are filled with interesting discussion now when we've got guys like pgimeno and GregorR here
18:28:03 <Keymaker> also, plenty of new esolangs have been made
18:28:27 <{^Raven^}> I'll take a peek at the chat logs later, I've got a lot of catching up to do
18:28:32 <Keymaker> but now i must go eat dinner (that i can't this time bring here)
18:30:04 <harkeyahh> i'm 11:30 am here and he is eating dinner
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18:35:42 <tokigun> Keymaker: it seems to be written in c99 ;)
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18:40:42 <harkeyahh_> did you tell ChanServ to stop bugging you?
18:46:36 <smott> oh right. one gets used it i suppose
18:47:14 <harkeyahh_> he can't treat me like trailer trash jsut because he lives in a near freezing basment in seattle
18:48:08 <smott> well, he's the boss, or so i hear
18:48:58 <harkeyahh_> see thats it repression of the organic race by hunks of metal
18:49:17 <harkeyahh_> we should make a machine that can rival ChanServ and beat him to a pulp
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18:50:48 <fizzie> At 20:30, that was a rather late dinner, even.
18:53:05 <smott> does anyone happen to have any code for this language called smallfuck?
18:53:57 <harkeyahh_> you really need to upgrade your machine
18:56:14 <smott> typical of me, always years behind the current technology
18:56:46 <{^Raven^}> I'd say check lament's website for it but I cannot find a current one
19:05:49 <graue> check the chat logs, lament posted a link to his smallfuck->smetana compiler in the last few days
19:20:23 <Keymaker> graue: have you made hello world in qdeql?
19:21:06 <graue> yeah, it's in the distribution
19:22:02 <Keymaker> ok i must look more carefully :)
19:24:30 <graue> hey, maybe i should make & do nothing on EOF rather than enqueueing 0
19:24:53 <graue> that would make writing some programs more challenging, but then cat could handle binary files
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19:49:09 <{^Raven^}> It is my pleasure to announce the release of Lost Kingdom (Enhanced Brainfuck Edition)
19:50:33 <{^Raven^}> http://jonripley.com/brainfuck/games/
19:50:59 <{^Raven^}> Lost Kingdom is a text adventure written in Brainfuck
19:51:32 <{^Raven^}> Probably the first ever piece of interactive fiction ever written in an esoteric programming language
19:52:08 <{^Raven^}> Also one of the largest non-trivial Brainfuck programs ever written
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20:06:49 * GregorR bows down to {^Raven^}, his new god.
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20:09:12 * {^Raven^} is sporting a grin larger than the recommended specifications
20:19:31 <graue> you wrote this in BFBASIC, right?
20:29:26 <{^Raven^}> yes...but trust me it was a non-trivial exercide
20:37:34 <graue> it seems like it's impossible to read binary files in brainfuck
20:37:46 <graue> if the implementation returns -1 on EOF, you can't read a 255 byte
20:37:53 <graue> if the implementation returns 0, you can't read a 0 byte
20:38:11 <graue> and if it implements EOF as no change, you get to choose what byte you can't read, but you still can't read a certain byte value!
20:38:54 <{^Raven^}> It will be possible in the future to handle binary files and do a lot more than that with any esolang capable of IO
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20:39:40 <{^Raven^}> but at the moment it is problematic as you say
20:40:09 <graue> it's not a problem in Kipple!
20:40:35 <kipple> at the moment, you say? is there an official revision on the way? ;)
20:40:48 <harkeyahh> omfg i forgot how to do a crying emotiocon
20:41:03 <graue> there's that EsoAPI thing
20:41:23 <harkeyahh> omfg i forgot how many star wars films there are 5 or 6 :'(
20:41:47 <graue> yeah, but only 0 of them were any good
20:41:56 <kipple> do not underestimate the power of the Holiday Special ;)
20:42:05 <harkeyahh> :'( no there can't be 7 then i am missing 2 films
20:42:27 <kipple> well, really, there are 6
20:42:34 <{^Raven^}> PESOIX is in development which is a POSIX style layer for any esolang
20:42:45 <harkeyahh> star wars is the worst trilogy ever :'(
20:43:04 <kipple> raven: interesting. how will that solve the EOF problem in BF?
20:44:12 <kipple> the original star wars trilogy are among my favorite movies, but the new trilogy is crap
20:44:24 <{^Raven^}> The official URL for PESOIX is http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/pesoix/doc/pesoix.html but also take a peek at http://jonripley.com/easel/
20:45:30 <{^Raven^}> PESOIX includes an implementation independant call to test for EOF
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21:22:12 <{^Raven^}> is the owner of the soojung blog here? I'd really love to know the English translation of your entry! Thanks for wirting it!
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21:34:16 * {^Raven^} wishes that Keymaker was around earlier
21:45:09 <tokigun> {^Raven^}: you mean http://sapzil.info/soojung/entry.php?id=620 ?
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21:47:04 <jix> catseye.mine.nu:8080 doesn't work
21:47:24 <{^Raven^}> Thanks, I have tried to read it via Babelfish but not much luck :(
21:47:39 <tokigun> {^Raven^}: Babelfish... omg :S
21:48:03 <tokigun> it's 5:48 am now... i have to sleep ;)
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21:55:03 <Keymaker> cpressey seems to have done nice job @ esowiki
21:55:36 <{^Raven^}> nice website good to know that you found a new host
21:57:51 <Keymaker> yes, bf-hacks is now my place along with koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/
21:59:07 <Keymaker> too lazy to search for a dictionary..
21:59:49 <{^Raven^}> in programming terms it means really, really difficult aka usually almost impossible
22:00:52 <kipple> writing Hello world in brainfuck is trivial. Writing it in Malbolge is not....
22:01:52 <{^Raven^}> keymaker: you missed my announcement earler :(
22:02:18 <Keymaker> (i was eating birthday cake and reading)
22:03:42 <{^Raven^}> keymaker: http://jonripley.com/brainfuck/games/ (look for Lost Kingdom)
22:07:18 <Keymaker> have you used any text-to-brainfuck generators?
22:07:26 <Keymaker> or everything just pure typed brainfuck?
22:11:33 <Keymaker> now i have to try it :) although i suck at text games
22:12:15 <{^Raven^}> technichally it's two different(ish) games rolled into one, a conversion of the original and a specially enhanced version
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23:34:03 <Keymaker> anyone got more information about aura??
23:55:49 <graue> figure it out yourself!
23:57:59 <harkeyahh> i developed a new companion to html not a programming language, but close enough