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20:03:55 <Kmkr> nothing but spam
20:04:57 <Kmkr> i mean in my inbox
20:06:00 <Kmkr> this is probably some monty python stuff that i don't know how to continue.. or? :)
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20:06:32 <BigZaphod> monty python, yes.. but I think it pretty much speaks for itself and need not be continued. :)
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20:13:14 <BigZaphod> neat cellular automata-type test environment: http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/
20:15:30 <Kmkr> i'll try it at home
20:22:11 -!- fungebob-away has changed nick to fungebob.
20:22:31 <fungebob> Hey fungers, what happens if you attempt a p with a negative address in funge-93?
20:22:52 <fungebob> add 80 to x or 25 to y to wrap it around? should a strict mode complain about this?
20:24:59 <fungebob> hmmm undefined eh? same thing for addresses greater than 80 and 25?
20:32:05 <cpressey> fungebob: greater than 79 and 24, actually :)
20:36:18 <fungebob> ah, so true:) how about division and remainders? im reading http://www.phlamethrower.co.uk/befunge/index.php#files
20:37:37 <lament> i bet they work the same as in C :)
20:37:44 <lament> *cough* i wonder why *cough*
20:38:18 <fungebob> are signed cells part of the funge standard?
20:39:41 <lament> isn't there an actual funge standard somewhere
20:39:45 <cpressey> lament: because the first interpreter was written in C, and the semantics for divide and modulo weren't defined any further than that
20:40:06 <cpressey> fungebob: i think the assumption is that they're unsigned
20:41:09 * jix has to make his webpage
20:42:05 <lament> oh, there isn't a 94 standard?
20:42:50 <lament> cpressey: go write a standard! :)
20:42:53 <lament> better late than never
20:43:37 <cpressey> lament: i'll write one if you write one for smallfuck :)
20:44:58 <cpressey> fungebob: the documentation ( http://catseye.webhop.net/projects/befunge93/doc/befunge93.html ) only says that playfield cells are ASCII afaict. and ASCII is technically 7-bits, unsigned.
20:46:23 <cpressey> befunge-93 is pretty much defined by its reference implementation, though
20:46:44 <cpressey> of course, there are places where C is flexible, like whether 'char' is signed or unsigned
20:47:37 <fungebob> i figured that the cells would be the same u32 as the stack for computation
20:47:50 <fungebob> but it was never explicitly mentioned
20:50:32 <cpressey> that's true... really, only a lower limit (ASCII) is mentioned
20:50:46 <cpressey> btw, stack cells are explicitly described as 'signed long int'
20:52:35 <pgimeno> ... which is unfortunate as it's a limitation for TC ;)
20:54:01 <pgimeno> darn, the wiki login times out too fast
20:54:56 <cpressey> hmm, it never seems to timeout for me anymore
20:55:02 <cpressey> which is bad - i'm apt to forget my password
20:55:50 <pgimeno> does that have to do with marking the "remember password" checkbox on login?
20:58:54 <pgimeno> heh, I didn't mark it because I thought that the effect was for it to auto-fill the password field
21:02:20 <fungebob> new flunger's out: http://jimbomania.com/code/flunger.html this version blocks on empty stdin and has lots more autmoatic examples, and more fixes
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21:03:18 <fungebob> cpressey: do you know the fungus test suite? is it officially endorsed?
21:08:12 <cpressey> fungebob: i think i've seen it... i can't officially endorse it because i don't remember if i've ever actually tried it or not :)
21:10:12 <fungebob> mostly for 98, but it was stated on the site that some of the tests would work fine for 93
21:10:38 <fungebob> the suite of tests requires 98 for file access, but some individual modules would be 93-compliant
21:13:59 <cpressey> well... any test that passes on the 93 reference interpreter could be considered "officially endorsed" i suppose... :)
21:14:11 <cpressey> fbbi is full of bugs, i'm sure
21:18:30 <jix> http://esolangs.org/wiki/NegaPosi << the first iorcc entry didn't know it is on the wiki...
22:07:27 <GregorR> I think there needs to be an XML raster image format.
22:08:20 <GregorR> <image x="50" y="50"><pixel x="1" y="1"><red value="255"/><blue value="0"/><green value="0"/></pixel>...
22:08:56 <GregorR> XPM isn't quite that bad :P
22:09:41 <BigZaphod> xml-raster could support an insane number of colors.. and it'd forward-compatible.
22:10:41 <{^Raven^}> Gregor: It still looks a lot more efficient than most MS generated HTML which requires over 330 bytes of encoding data per byte of test
22:10:59 <BigZaphod> you could do steganography between pixels.
22:12:05 <GregorR> I think I'll make a quick-n-dirty implementation of it when I get home from work ... put a few example images up :)
22:14:27 <GregorR> If my calculations are correct, one 1024x768 image would be approximately 80MB
22:16:11 <GregorR> It's raster, a pixel is a pixel.
22:18:04 <GregorR> Though I guess the <image> tag could have dpi="" to make it explicit XD
22:19:08 <BigZaphod> to make it more verbose you could add something like: <line><pixel></pixel><pixel>...</line> for each line of the image.
22:20:43 <GregorR> <undohistory><undo type="line" name="line01" level="0"/>...
22:23:33 <BigZaphod> you could also have <checksum type="sha1">...</checksum> within the <line></line> tags for each individual line. of course that might just be getting silly. :)
22:25:20 <{^Raven^}> with each <pixel...> position being specified explicitly <line> seems superflous
22:26:57 <pgimeno> in the gimp project an xml-based image format was considered for a time... it must still be somewhere in the archives
22:27:02 <GregorR> We're talking about an XML raster image format and you're objecting to superflousity?
22:27:36 <pgimeno> maybe it's still under consideration
22:28:21 <{^Raven^}> <pixel><x value="1"/><y value="1"/><red value="255"/><blue value="0"/><green value="0"/></pixel> seems more in spirit
22:30:14 <GregorR> Sort of a blurry line between subelements and parameters ...
22:30:43 <GregorR> I was working under the pretense that a pixel IS a location, and HAS an R, G and B.
22:30:51 <BigZaphod> ooh.. I like that. Pixels could be specified out of order.
22:31:17 <GregorR> For no good reason besides ludicrousy ^_^
22:32:53 <pgimeno> wouldn't it be more like this?: <pixel x="1" y="1"><red>255</red><blue>0</blue><green>0</green></pixel>
22:33:23 <BigZaphod> you could use xslt to build an image editor.
22:34:51 <{^Raven^}> <red><bit position="0" value="1"/><bit position="1" value="1"/><bit position="2" value="1"/>...</red>
22:35:28 <BigZaphod> ohh.. yes.. it should be a bit-level specification.
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22:36:17 <{^Raven^}> it solves the problem of having to recompute an n-bit value each time you need to change one sub-bit.
22:37:43 <{^Raven^}> and gives us a method of storing just one image on one CD-R
22:38:51 <{^Raven^}> hmmm... add <frame value="n"><pixel>...</pixel></frame> and you can extend this to a movie file format
22:39:52 <BigZaphod> you could add <animation> tag outside of the frames that specifies things like fps and you'd have an animated gif kind of thing.
22:40:36 <pgimeno> the bit format also has the advantage of making it easier for the programmer to use Smallfuck for digital image processing
22:40:58 <{^Raven^}> yes, that is a very important consideration
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22:54:32 <GregorR> http://gregorr.homelinux.org/xmlraster/example.rxml.bz2
22:54:46 <GregorR> I didn't make it bit format, sorry ;)
22:54:52 <GregorR> But it is a two-frame animation.
22:57:01 <GregorR> It should say <red value="..."/>, but doesn't have the / :(
22:58:49 <{^Raven^}> calamari: am working on BFBASIC 1.50 rc1
22:59:50 <calamari> raven: got your mail on it.. sounds very cool
23:00:49 <calamari> you mentioned that arrays were still causing problems.. is it still with the for loop?
23:02:16 <jix> i have some ideas for my =>whirl language
23:02:50 <{^Raven^}> calamari: FOR has been completely rewritten from the brainfuck point of view, the bug lies elsewhere
23:03:52 <jix> optimization is doldene by genetic algorithms because my mind is going to expo if i use something different than try,modify,try,modify(genetic algorithms(simplified))
23:04:10 <jix> what code crashes?
23:04:37 <jix> or causes problems
23:05:14 <jix> expo=>explode
23:05:35 <{^Raven^}> element zero of an array is one case where corruption happens, it used to be fixable by allocating a dummy array before each real array
23:06:58 <{^Raven^}> also, in some cases a non-array variable is overwritten by the value of another non-array variable
23:07:48 <calamari> do these bugs hapen with -O0 ?
23:08:10 <jix> is it just me as non java programmer or is the bf-basic code uhm.. chaotic?
23:08:33 <{^Raven^}> isn't the lowest -O1? but yes it still happens
23:08:52 <calamari> raven: yeah, you're right -O1 :)
23:10:02 <calamari> wow, this monospace 12 font makes 0 and O look identical.. usually one is rounder than the other, not this time
23:10:22 <{^Raven^}> i have noticed that a(5)=0:a(4)=0 puts a(5) in the cell before a(4) which seems odd
23:11:15 <calamari> ogff by one error? I'll have to check it out
23:11:22 <calamari> gotta go.. time to work again :)
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23:12:17 <{^Raven^}> jix: aside from a few known issues BFBASIC works perfectly
23:13:06 <jix> i hope someday my (nameless) =>whirl lang will work perfectly too
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23:14:08 <{^Raven^}> it's interesting to note that BFBASIC is one of the few BASIC implementations that has no interpreter - it is a straight compiler :)
23:15:27 <jix> hmm bootstrapping bf-basic ^^
23:15:46 <jix> writing a bf-basic compiler in bf-basic
23:17:05 <{^Raven^}> once it works as intended it might be a good project for a suitably perverse individual
23:19:38 * jix is still trying to figure out the best stack layout for whirl
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23:35:32 <Kmkr> anyone seen that movie "king cobra" or somethinf?
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