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03:25:05 <GregorR> I've nearly finished pnmtorxml :)
03:46:16 <GregorR> Done! Now on to rxmltopnm :)
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04:18:20 <GregorR> I can now convert RXML to a raw framebuffer :)
04:29:05 * heatsink can now get the Nth element of a cons list in unlambda
04:29:33 * heatsink has scheme code to generate the unlambda code
04:29:43 * heatsink which is then compiled into scheme code to execute
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04:45:02 <GregorR> Either rxmltopnm doesn't work, or 35MB is a lot of XML :P
04:46:24 <shapr> 35mb is a lot of xml.
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05:16:52 <GregorR> Actually, rxmltopnm was broken *shrugs*
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07:12:11 <GregorR> Wow, RXML compresses quite well XD
07:12:56 <BigZaphod> how big is the source bmp, jpg, whatever?
07:31:26 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/rxml.php
07:33:20 <GregorR> I'm debating whether to post that in #xml XD
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08:48:31 <tokigun> GregorR: RXML looks good, except that it's very large :p
08:51:13 <tokigun> i suggest <palette> or <color> element for palette.
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10:29:46 <tokigun> <jix> i hope someday my (nameless) =>whirl lang will work perfectly too
10:31:21 <jix> i have no code atm
10:31:36 <jix> still thinking about stack/variable/array/temp memory layout
10:31:56 <tokigun> you mean c(or whatever) to whirl compiler?
10:32:47 <jix> yes but not c ..a new language
10:32:48 <tokigun> oops, c? hmm it's very hard.
10:33:01 <tokigun> jix: then intermediate language?
10:33:14 <jix> yes but a highlevel language
10:33:20 <jix> a bit like BF-BASIC
10:33:50 <tokigun> i planed to make whirl assembler but didn't start :)
10:34:51 <jix> i need a whirl debugger..
10:35:13 <jix> with a clean ui and breakpoints
10:38:26 <tokigun> i used my python implementation to debug 99 bob in whirl.
10:38:47 <tokigun> ...but doesn't have good ui
10:39:53 <jix> i'm going to use ruby for the compiler
10:41:31 <tokigun> ah my friend has made aheui interpreter in ruby.
10:41:45 <tokigun> http://dittos.dnip.net/aheui.rb
10:42:03 <jix> python is faster but i don't like the syntax..
10:42:58 <tokigun> some syntax looks weird... especially decorators
10:43:26 <tokigun> hmm i have to learn ruby again :p
10:44:34 <jix> ruby 2.0 is going to be faster (i hope.. it's a complete rewrite and it will use a vm afaik)
10:47:04 <jix> yarv is for ruby 1.9 (ruby 1.8 with 2.0 features, not a rewrite)
10:48:47 <jix> tokigun: what os do you use?
10:49:38 <tokigun> i want to use ubuntu linux but i doesn't have enough space
10:50:04 <jix> buy a bigger one ^^
10:51:13 <tokigun> i'm reading Programming Ruby again
10:56:05 <pgimeno> "I need a harder disk" (actually heard from a client)
10:58:06 <tokigun> pgimeno: did you hear "hardest disk"? :)
10:59:31 <jix> i named my hard disk harder-disk on my old computer
10:59:39 <jix> (my family name is harder)
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13:10:24 <jix> tokigun: i'm writing a whirl debugger with a tk gui
13:10:59 <tokigun> i didn't use tk in python; i used wxPython for gui.
13:11:20 <jix> but ruby/tk comes with ruby
13:11:50 <tokigun> yes tkinter comes with python too. :)
13:12:13 <jix> i had some problems with wxwidgets under osx
13:13:53 <jix> wxwdigets looks nicer(more native widgets.. more translating between carbon or cocoa and wx) but on osx tk is faster
13:14:42 <tokigun> i felt tk on windows is slower... :(
13:15:43 <jix> and tk comes with osx wx doesn't
13:16:53 <tokigun> anyway... i have to think about whirl quine :)
13:18:26 <jix> oh and tk is easy
13:26:50 <jix> pgimeno: ?
13:26:56 * pgimeno just finished his Malbolge programming article
13:28:51 <pgimeno> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge_programming
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13:44:51 <pgimeno> finished it just in time since I have to go now
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15:30:33 <tokigun> jix: i finished reading Programming Ruby and (to practice) made Whirl interpreter in Ruby :)
15:32:38 <jix> hmm tktext sucks
15:33:31 <jix> wxmac and wxruby isn't stable enough
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15:33:43 <jix> ruby-cocoa isn't platform independent
15:48:49 <jix> i hate gui toolkits
15:49:05 <jix> but i love gui
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16:18:06 <tokigun> BigZaphod: I've made Whirl interpreter in Ruby. :)
16:18:34 <tokigun> See http://dev.tokigun.net/esolang/index_en.php#whirl .
16:20:27 <jix> ah .. now i understand tktext
16:21:03 <jix> tokigun: why a hash as memory?
16:21:32 <jix> and the cell size isn't limited to 32-bit signed
16:22:08 <jix> an array is faster than an hash
16:22:13 <tokigun> if reading index -4 of memory?
16:22:28 <jix> what does the reference implementation does?
16:23:55 <tokigun> it uses STL vector... maybe it cannot handle negative index
16:24:30 <tokigun> but i implemented it for safety (yes. it can be changed)
16:25:02 <tokigun> jix: "and the cell size isn't limited to 32-bit signed" what do you mean?
16:25:18 <jix> the reference implementatoin uses int as cell data type.. right?
16:25:19 <tokigun> do you mean "the cell size should be limited to 32-bit signed int"?
16:26:49 <jix> aint=int&0x7F_FF_FF_FF;sign=(int>>31)&1;(sign ? -1-aint : aint) should work (untestet)
16:27:04 <jix> but it doesnt
16:27:23 <tokigun> jix: C++ specification says
16:27:40 <tokigun> "Plain ints have the natural size suggested by the architecture of the execution environment"
16:27:51 <tokigun> it can be 16-bit, 32-bit, 64-bit, even 36-bit and so on...
16:28:03 <jix> but there should be a minimum limit
16:28:31 <tokigun> maybe it can be 32-bit int
16:28:46 <pgimeno> 16 bits is the minimum; IIRC some Cray compiler have 42-bit-or-so ints
16:29:07 <tokigun> anyway.. so i didn't think about Fixnum and Bignum
16:29:31 <pgimeno> I'm not sure, I'm only sure it was neither a power of 2 nor a multiple of 8 and that sounded very weird
16:29:44 <tokigun> if i want to implement Malbolge interpreter, type of int is very important issue :)
16:29:56 <jix> there were computers with 9bit bytes.. or?
16:30:40 <pgimeno> well, it's relatively easy to limit size
16:30:41 <tokigun> jix: not x86, but there're some architectures that has 6bit, 9bit, 12bit byte
16:30:59 <tokigun> (12bit is not sure... but i heard 6bit/9bit byte)
16:31:33 <jix> tokigun: of course not x86.. because the instruction set isn't for 9bit bytes
16:32:05 <jix> wasn't the eniac decimal?
16:32:29 <jix> and the snes(super nintendo entertainment system)'s cpu had a decimal mode too
16:33:41 <jix> tokigun: i don't know the sens cpu in normal mode: 0x05 + 0x05 == 0x0A in decimal mode 0x05 + 0x05 == 0x10
16:33:55 <jix> i think it depends on the registers used
16:34:34 <jix> and i think only the accumulator register was set to decimal in decimal mode.. the adress registers in decimal would be a stupid idea
16:35:02 <tokigun> address registers in decimal is... crazy.
16:35:20 <jix> base -2 numbers are cool
16:35:26 <jix> no need for a sign bit
16:35:35 <pgimeno> decimal computers were popular around the 60's I think
16:36:00 <jix> tokigun: base 2i muhahahahahaha
16:36:06 <pgimeno> that's roughly the justification that Knuth gives for making the MIX language support decimal
16:36:32 <jix> it's impossible to represent all numbers with base 2i afaik
16:36:44 <jix> you can represent some complex numbers but not all
16:37:13 <jix> uhm phi base? with digits 0 == 0 and 1 == phi^position ?
16:37:25 <tokigun> jix: wait... i'm searching wikipedia article
16:37:26 <jix> because you can't have phi digits
16:37:56 <tokigun> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_mean_base
16:39:24 <lindi-> what about base i! where 123456 would mean 1*6! + 2*5! + 3*4! + 4*3! + 5*2! + 6*1! ? ;)
16:39:43 <tokigun> lindi-: special case of mixed radix... :)
16:39:52 <tokigun> there is "fibonacci representation" too.
16:41:52 <tokigun> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Hee_Jun
16:42:06 <tokigun> He looks good... except eyes
16:42:40 <lindi-> tokigun: that fibonacci representation seems to avoid non-unique representation by restricting what numbers can be used
16:42:56 <tokigun> lindi-: yes it is also universal code.
16:42:58 <lindi-> tokigun: factorial presentation does not have that limit, i think
16:43:51 <tokigun> lindi-: factorial representation... i think it cannot be used for general purpose
16:43:52 <lindi-> 123456 would actually be illegal :P
16:44:31 <tokigun> many months ago i designed simple machine language uses fibonacci coding
16:44:49 <lindi-> because then 6 = 6*1! would equal 100 = 1*3!
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23:45:43 <ZeroOne> the number base lindi- was talking about is called factoradic.
23:46:34 <lindi-> it has a name? interesting
23:46:40 <ZeroOne> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoradic
23:47:36 <lindi-> was that page already there when we spoke about this on some math lesson?
23:49:49 <lindi-> very fascinating indeed
23:50:40 <jix> base -2 is still the best one
23:50:41 <ZeroOne> no, it wasn't. that article was created on October 29, 2004. however, I this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mixed_radix&diff=6471719&oldid=6471554 edit on October 10, 2004
23:51:38 <lindi-> the program i wrote to convert decimal to factoradic presentation is dated November 9, 2004
23:52:25 <ZeroOne> you still have that one? :) cool.
23:54:09 <ZeroOne> someone have edited those articles to state that the least significant number would stand for 0!... I can't see, why. :P
23:54:59 <jix> and isn't 0! == 1
23:55:17 <jix> yes it is the the article is wrong with 0!
23:55:33 <ZeroOne> if you see my original contribution, there was no 0!
23:57:13 <ZeroOne> I should do that, but I don't understand if that change would affect all that stuff about Lehmer codes and permutations. :P
23:59:20 <lindi-> "In this numbering system, the rightmost digit may be 0, the next 0 or 1, the next 0, 1, or 2, and so on."
23:59:37 <lindi-> ZeroOne: so it doesn't really matter whether there is 0! or not because the multiplier will always be 0