00:04:31 <graue> it seems that RISC OS runs on ARM-based computers and was originally designed for 32-bit Acorn Archimedes
00:05:28 <jix> Arm is cool
00:06:07 <jix> i started to learn arm7 asm
00:06:50 <jix> + a bit thumb (16-bit instruction 1/2 of the registers a bit slower but still 32-bit memory (designed for executing code from slow devices))
00:07:21 <jix> the arm7tdmi of the gameboy advance (and ipod (the ipod has 2 of them)) support these instruction sets
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00:22:27 <jix> if the arm7 would have a divide instruction it would be a perfect instruction set (imho)
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00:54:49 <{^Raven^}> jix: there are quite a few divisions possible in a single ARM instruction
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01:00:33 <{^Raven^}> jix: mov rx,rx,lsr#n will divide rx by 2^n
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13:06:29 <tokigun> BigZaphod: .wrl is extension of vrml... that's why i used .wr extension for whirl program.
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14:40:36 <tokigun> i'm considering name "befilze" for my befunge variant... good?
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16:59:57 <Keymaker> now i can continue the quine again
17:00:06 <Keymaker> i haven't had chance to work on it all day :)
17:45:47 <Keymaker> ah.. now to work the brainfuck part..
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21:15:51 <Keymaker> i have couple of ideas but not sure what to use
21:16:03 <jix> share your ideas
21:16:20 <Keymaker> (to note, these aren't very much planned yet!)
21:16:34 <Keymaker> one is to make language to use rot13
21:16:49 <Keymaker> there'd be something instruction that would rot13 the program
21:17:11 <Keymaker> and only for example ascii "a b c d e f g h" would be instructions
21:17:58 <Keymaker> and when those are rot13ed then the other part of program could be accessed
21:20:15 <Keymaker> rghhhhhhh.. haven't planned more about that one
21:20:53 <Keymaker> the other idea is befungeish language, but where one can only do jumps to left and right
21:21:32 <Keymaker> that language would have self modification
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21:21:45 <Keymaker> and data would be stored inside the program
21:22:28 <Keymaker> certain characters would trigger some instructions that for example "increase the value in the next cell"
21:22:48 <Keymaker> and if there's no trigger, then the value would be output
21:22:57 <Keymaker> so the shortest hello world program would be just
21:23:34 <Keymaker> program would start automaticly from left and go to right, and since there'd be no triggers selected those characters would be just output
21:23:46 <jix> i'm still thinking about a graphical thue using graphical regular expressions
21:24:31 <jix> sounds interesting..
21:26:44 <Keymaker> althought probably program's need something end character.. like in befunge
21:26:45 <jix> how is looping done? replicating the code or is it possible to re-run code parts?
21:27:34 <Keymaker> probably i could use # for jumping
21:27:46 <jix> is there a jump over the next n instructions instruction?
21:28:10 <Keymaker> although probably # would need to jump a bit more than only one instruction
21:28:18 <Keymaker> probably i'll make it jump 3 or 4
21:29:04 <Keymaker> or then have two jump instructions, one to jump only over 1 and the other 3.. or something
21:29:16 <Keymaker> if could be just something | or something
21:29:26 <fizzie> Well, you can easily write bidirectional code with #xy#xy#...#xy#xy, which would execute the 'y's when going right and 'x's when going left.
21:29:32 <fizzie> Then you'd just need a conditional <.
21:30:46 <fizzie> (Or a conditional #, for that matter.)
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21:43:10 <pgimeno> the idea of conditionally skipping an instruction was used by the good ol' hp25
21:44:55 <pgimeno> hp25 was a programmable calculator made in the late 70's or very early 80's
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21:46:54 <pgimeno> the hp 41 is newer; it has LCD, right? the 25 has red LEDs
21:47:35 <pgimeno> Keymaker: you need to decide... or maybe not
21:47:38 <Keymaker> can't make up my %&(=)/"# mind!!
21:48:05 <Keymaker> perhaps it's best to leave esolangs for other
21:48:15 <Keymaker> although i would've liked to make one new
21:49:09 <Keymaker> i think it has too many instructions
21:49:23 <Keymaker> but at least the concept works
21:49:47 <fizzie> The idea of conditionally skipping is used in intercal, too. :p
21:49:53 <fizzie> ABSTAIN FROM, or what was it.
21:50:34 <calamari_> I've noticed that my first languages (maybe all) were not very creative.. Numberix really has little going for it. Although it seemed new to me at the time, it's really nothing new when compared to befunge and bf
21:51:01 <Keymaker> yeah, the best have been made already (read: brainfuck)
21:51:39 <Keymaker> and on a side note; windows has no comfortable text editor
21:51:46 <calamari_> nah, I think there are still creative esolangs to be made
21:52:19 <calamari_> wish it worked correctly under wine :( excellent editor
21:52:53 <Keymaker> or well, it's not mandrake program if i remember correct someone saying
21:55:20 <GregorR> kwrite is indeed part of KE.
21:58:23 * GregorR is still kicking around 1L in his head.
21:59:00 <GregorR> I think that graue's method would work, but I'm not positive about making one direction be I/O...I think there should always be a nop reverse of a functional direction, seems like it would be necessary ...
21:59:20 <GregorR> Maybe I should write an interpreter and try it out *shrugs*
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22:04:09 <Keymaker> using the program itself as memory makes programming quite hard actually
22:04:59 <Keymaker> grhhh.. i'll try to plan this some other time, now i just can't
22:06:04 <GregorR> Speaking of, I'm still the reigning champion of FYB :)
22:31:49 <Keymaker> i haven't even started the work on befunge interpreter in brainfuck..
22:32:13 <Keymaker> (and not gonna start tonight either x))
22:37:00 * {^Raven^} cannot live without StrongED on RISC OS and shuns all other text editors aside from pico
22:47:19 <fizzie> pice breaks long lines. :p
22:47:52 <GregorR> While j is in java, and I hate the Java, j is an excellent text/programmers editor.
22:48:08 <GregorR> I also hate anybody so pretentious as to name their text editor "j"
22:48:11 <fizzie> (Strange. I used to typo 'pine' to 'oubi' back when I used it, and now I typo 'pico' to 'pice', even though e/i and o/e are very far away.)
22:48:32 <fizzie> vim is a good text editor.
22:49:03 <GregorR> Though I use vim all the time (in the vim-emacs war, there is only one), I don't know that I would qualify it as "good" in the modern world :)
22:49:28 <GregorR> emacs would be decent if it was a text editor instead of a bloated operating system.
22:49:50 <fizzie> It's got syntax highlighting, it's got a working macro language, what's there not to like. (Except that people tend to bitch about the modal ui.)
22:50:29 <GregorR> My only problem with the modal UI is it's quite often difficult to tell what mode you're in.
22:50:47 <GregorR> There's no screen real estate dedicated to a mode indicator.
22:52:37 <fizzie> Um. My status line does show "-- INSERT --" or "-- REPLACE --" or "-- VISUAL --" or whatever.
22:53:53 <GregorR> Err, mode isn't quite what I was thinking of, actually XD
22:54:58 <GregorR> It doesn't show commands as you type them, so you're typing blind - thus, if you accidentally hit r, then later hit i to go into insert mode, you don't get the result you were expecting.
22:57:08 <fizzie> Well, that's true, for the "normal" commands. ":blah"s show up on the status line, though, so you don't need to write regexps blind. :p The status line could hint more what you're doing, though. After all, I think emacs shows the key presses you've made, after a small delay.
22:57:47 <GregorR> Also, it's terribly autoconf'd.
22:57:57 <GregorR> (Emacs is even worse autoconf'd, and it's a GNU program)
22:58:43 <fizzie> (And the standard scheme indentation script is awfully slow, when expressions get more complex, which is the main reason I use emacs when writing scheme.)
22:59:10 <fizzie> -delay for every newline is not very tolerable.
22:59:17 <fizzie> Although that might well have improved lately.
23:00:41 <GregorR> On a different but (un)related subject, links is infinitely better than lynx, why do people keep using lynx?
23:01:20 <fizzie> Well, it's the "standard text-mode browser".
23:02:55 <fizzie> I rather like the svgalib graphics mode for links2 (or whatever that http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/links/ branch is called), it was very nice for web-browsing on a P<100 x86 laptop, on which X+any-graphical-browser was quite sluggish.
23:10:21 <fizzie> What, we're not being esoteric enough? :p
23:12:07 <fizzie> It's past 01am, I think it's safe to assume the ISP for my work-place isn't going to fix their apparent router (mis)configuration problem logical-today.
23:14:09 <fizzie> Uh, it's a small company (physically in Teknologiakyl, Otaniemi, the ugly barracks near Innopoli) doing generally music-related edutainment things for x86/win32 platforms. It's horribly uninteresting, and I only do it _very_ part-timely to pay the rent. :p
23:14:45 <fizzie> I would point you to our web-pages (such as they are), but thanks to the ISP problem they're down now. :p
23:15:15 <fizzie> The PC game part (not the TV program) of http://www.staraoke.fi/ is basically my fault, and I'm not proud of it. :p
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23:20:43 <fizzie> I don't much enjoy working on it.
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23:21:08 <fizzie> Especially since it's based on _old_ ('98) and _crufty_ (massively so) C++ code.
23:21:16 <fizzie> A rewrite is what the thing needs, but...
23:21:17 <Keymaker> but well, you gotta do something to pay the rent (or stay with your folks ;))
23:23:46 <fizzie> Well, recently I arranged for myself a girl-thing to pay half the rent (of the new place; previous "apartment" (single room) wouldn't have been very good for two), and I must say it seems to be more pleasant than working on Staraoke.
23:24:33 <fizzie> Not that this would be very on-topic: there's not much esoteric programming languages involved.
23:26:43 <fizzie> (Although I like to think that my various befunge interpreters have made a favourable impression.)
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23:32:45 <fizzie> Night-y-night. I guess I'll sleep too.
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