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03:25:05 <Arrogant> I've failed in writing Brainfuck in Synesthesia
03:25:11 <Arrogant> I don't know how to implement the loops
03:25:55 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/368728
03:26:12 <Wildhalcyon> Kipple posed me an interesting problem about writing a Glypho program that resembled natural english. I think for duplicate symbols (such as aaab and abbb) I'll use multiple spaces to cheat
03:27:50 <Arrogant> Because it has to read the instructions from a stream.
03:28:03 <Arrogant> I've got an idea on how to do it. It's complicated though.
03:28:32 <Wildhalcyon> Oh, you mean writing a bf interpreter in synesthesia?
03:33:49 <Wildhalcyon> Which should tell you that yours probably won't be beautiful either.
03:35:07 <Wildhalcyon> Do you know of any english words that begin with a double letter?
03:36:45 <Wildhalcyon> hmmmnow I need a word that looks like: abcbc
03:36:50 <kipple> awib is awesome by the way :)
03:39:21 <kipple> you need a dictionary and a pattern search program
03:39:40 <Wildhalcyon> lol, unfortunately, I dont have linux here at home
03:40:27 <Wildhalcyon> so far, my program looks like: "oops I queued a good "
03:40:53 <Wildhalcyon> notice the large number of x3 spaces? That's unfortunate
03:41:40 <Wildhalcyon> If I encode ouroboros in Glypho, I could eliminate the abbb and aaab symbol combinations as NOPs and never use them (which is why I made aaaa a NOP)
03:43:42 <Wildhalcyon> You could easily encode glypho in rhyming quatrains
03:44:39 <Arrogant> To programatically identify English rhymes :D
03:45:08 <Wildhalcyon> Not too hard... I could probably write a script to do it with a fixed set of rhyming word endings
03:46:43 <Wildhalcyon> so it will randomly pick a rhyming set of words for each a, b, c
03:46:53 <Wildhalcyon> It's not REAL creative to do it automatically, but it could do it
03:47:31 <Arrogant> I see what you mean now. You meant generate it.
03:48:09 <Wildhalcyon> right. Each word predefined with the set of words that it rhymed to
03:48:51 <kipple> Arrogant: about Synesthesia... Can you have only one array within a scope?
03:48:54 <Wildhalcyon> so thou would be in the set {thou, how, cow, bow, frau...} and we'll put you in with {do, loo, rue, moo...}
03:51:18 <kipple> does subroutines have a permanent scope, or is it reinitialized on every call
03:53:28 <Arrogant> Subroutines don't have a scope unless you create one
03:53:33 <Arrogant> In which case it is created on each call
03:53:47 <kipple> I've been thinking about what you said about the bf-interpreter
03:53:51 <Arrogant> Or you could create a scope and call the subroutine from within
03:55:05 <Wildhalcyon> I have "oops I queued a" still, "oops I queued a deed..." maybe
03:56:08 <Wildhalcyon> Im trying to encode the fibonacci generator: aabc abab abab abbb abbb abba aabc abab abaa abab aaba abab aabb abab abbb abcd
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03:57:34 <Arrogant> Wildhalcyon: They can be any word that matches the schemes?
03:57:59 <kipple> arrogant: the solution to the looping problem is to first store the entire source code, so you don't have to read it from a stream
03:58:37 <Wildhalcyon> arrogant: actually, they can breech word boundaries if you like - spaces count as symbols
03:58:43 <kipple> ok. sounded like you had given up
03:59:24 <Arrogant> That makes it slightly more complicated
03:59:25 <Wildhalcyon> If spaces don't count as symbols then the problem is tricker, because i/o use abbb and aaab
04:00:00 <kipple> but if spaces are ignored then you can use stuff like abb b
04:01:05 <kipple> I'd say ignoring spaces makes it a lot easier
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04:06:49 <GregorR> I have returned, as foretold by prophecy!
04:09:45 <Wildhalcyon> Weren't you the one foretold to bring chips & dip to the next festive gathering?
04:09:49 <calamari> hmm, gregordamus.. does that mean you'll only be taken seriously, by crackpots, after you're dead?
04:10:11 <GregorR> The irony being that that too was foretold by prophecy.
04:10:27 <GregorR> Umm ... new release of OBLISK! Nothing on the esoteric front however :-P
04:10:42 <kipple> I meant that as a response to calamari
04:10:45 <Wildhalcyon> if I discount whitespace, but count "punctuation" (such as ellipsis), it helps a bit.
04:11:04 <GregorR> http://oblisk.codu.org/ (/me gives himself one shameless plug point)
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04:12:03 <kipple> GregorR: bad news. looks like ORK wasn't the first OO esolang after all... http://web.archive.org/web/20041015023918/http://www.inz.info/pingpong/Tutorial.html#oop
04:12:08 <GregorR> Why was I just not in the channel ...
04:12:24 <GregorR> kipple: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *sobs*
04:13:04 <GregorR> Also, "turing complete" is a necessary part of that definition.
04:13:26 <GregorR> Because I'm sure there are all sorts of worthless OO joke languages :-P
04:14:05 <calamari> GregorR: interesting.. I'm working on a package manager for school research
04:15:45 <lament> what is the meaning of life?
04:16:39 <Arrogant> 42 is the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything.
04:17:14 <GregorR> Life (n): The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
04:17:23 <Arrogant> GregorR: That's the definition.
04:17:29 <Arrogant> Meaning and definition are wholly different.
04:17:46 <Arrogant> No, the meaning of life is expressed in eight instructions: +-><[].,
04:17:53 <calamari> gregor: so what is the definition of meaning?
04:18:15 <GregorR> calamari: I was just looking that up ;)
04:20:30 <Wildhalcyon> I think Im typing myself into a corner here...
04:23:59 <Arrogant> I think I'll drop writing a Brainfuck interpreter in Synesthesia
04:24:18 <Arrogant> I'll write a new language instead.
04:26:32 <kipple> you could browse the categories on the wiki, and see which categories have few languages
04:26:54 <kipple> then it's easier to make something different
04:31:44 <Arrogant> My favorite joke language is TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL
04:32:22 <kipple> hehe. that one is cool
04:32:38 <Arrogant> The Multi-Million Language Project To End All Language Projects And Isn't That A Fine Name For A Language
04:33:09 <Wildhalcyon> A more useable version of java2K wouldnt be bad
04:33:41 <Wildhalcyon> or something like that - where the instruction has a probability of executing the instruction properly < 1
04:34:13 <kipple> how about a non-deterministic language with full access to the file system?
04:35:36 <Wildhalcyon> Shoot.. how come my instruction reference doesn't coincide with the freakin' program Im trying to write?!!!
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04:43:31 <Wildhalcyon> Okay, after correcting the mistake, here's what I have so far: "Oops an anti time eel...
04:43:34 <Arrogant> I want to make a language that's not based on a programming concept.
04:43:56 <kipple> what do you consider a programming concept?
04:44:19 <Arrogant> I mean, these elements have to exist.
04:49:47 <kipple> you mean you want to camophlage them as something else?
04:53:33 <Arrogant> I want the language to have a concept that is beyond a technical aspect
04:54:28 <kipple> you mean like Chef or Shakespeare?
04:56:26 <kipple> I often start to think about such themed languages, but I've never finished one
05:07:36 <kipple> hmm. the wiki lacks a category for this kind of languages
05:07:55 <kipple> I'll make one. is Themed an appropriate name?
05:09:42 <kipple> hmm. that might be better
05:11:14 <Wildhalcyon> the problem with the category is the ambiguity of the word "themed"
05:11:31 <kipple> but that will be explained on the category page
05:11:46 <kipple> something like " languages are based on a theme that is not computer related"
05:13:17 <Arrogant> I don't see how that'd even work
05:14:10 <Arrogant> Computer related isn't really a good way to say it
05:14:48 <Arrogant> You could make a thematic language based on computers
05:15:11 <Arrogant> Like, computers as objects or things like that.
05:16:22 <kipple> I'm open to suggestions...
05:16:27 <Wildhalcyon> I thought about implementing a network-headache website that folks could upload their programs onto in order to run them. Ticks would be once every hour.
05:16:28 <Arrogant> Languages that are conceptually defined by a theme as opposed to a programming paradigm.
05:17:27 <Wildhalcyon> Ooh, Arrogant comes out with a winner. Nice job
05:18:19 <kipple> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Category:Thematic
05:18:32 <kipple> current members are Chef, Shakespeare, Taxi and var'aq
05:21:23 <kipple> probably missed a bunch
05:22:31 <Arrogant> Someone should write an implementation of it.
05:23:07 <kipple> DMM makes fun languages
05:27:18 <kipple> TRANSCRIPT is also pretty cool: http://www.corknut.org/code/transcript/samples/fibonacci.txt
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05:46:38 <Arrogant> GregorR: ORK looks a lot like a spec I was writing
05:47:15 <GregorR> Does that mean I beat you in the race? :P
05:48:39 <GregorR> There is such a thing as an esoteric programming language.
05:48:49 <GregorR> An esoteric programming language has an author which is a person.
05:48:54 <GregorR> There is such a thing as a person.
05:49:02 <GregorR> A person has a name which is a phrase.
05:49:12 <GregorR> It would take too long to gloat in ORK.
05:51:18 <GregorR> Tomorrow I buy Moxie soda.
05:51:22 <GregorR> And so, I am in a jovial mood.
05:51:27 <GregorR> For I finally found Moxie.
05:51:44 <Arrogant> There'd better be an interpreter ;)
05:52:14 <GregorR> Feel free to write an interpreter 8-D
05:52:23 <Arrogant> I think I could write an interpreter in Python
05:52:56 <GregorR> Python is not in my repretoire, but from what I know about it it seems like a logical choice.
05:53:21 <Arrogant> Well, I could certainly write the interpreter quickly
06:03:44 <Wildhalcyon> Y'know.. I've seen transcript before, but I never really thought "Hmm, what should I program in it?" and now... hmmm
06:04:16 <Wildhalcyon> Also, Glypho polyglots with almost any other language are terribly terribly easy if you restrict the symbol set. :-D
06:12:46 <Arrogant> GregorR: I think that I'll make it similar to how I made Synesthesia's interpreter.
06:12:56 <Arrogant> Except I'll add Objects to it. Obviously.
06:13:22 <Arrogant> The parser'll produce a list of instructions which are Python objects with a perform method that tells me what they do.
06:13:27 <GregorR> Having no idea what/who Synesthesia is, I'll just nod my head.
06:13:44 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/368728
06:16:21 <Wildhalcyon> Anyhow, more ideas are swimming through my head than I can clearly keep track of; that generally means its night time for me. I'll have some more glypho fluff tomorrow though, to be sure!
06:31:15 <Arrogant> GregorR: FYB also seems pretty awesome.
06:32:55 <Arrogant> It also seems really hard to do :D
06:33:20 <GregorR> jix did pretty well for himself.
06:33:27 <GregorR> Until I DEFEATED HIM UTTERLY!
06:33:31 <GregorR> MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAAH
06:34:50 <lament> anyone knows any 3-player paper-and-pencil games?
06:36:42 <Arrogant> Also, your index page is a 2L program isn't it
06:39:18 <GregorR> lament: If you draw cards on a piece of paper then cut it out, I've got a great one for you!
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14:19:07 <Keymaker> rghhh.. my favourite band's website has been down already a week or something!
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15:07:30 <Keymaker> btw, my language plan isn't ready yet :)
15:08:26 <Keymaker> but there are some things i'll need to think more
15:09:31 <Keymaker> as i've done unnecessary, perhaps that should be called nonnecessary
15:09:32 <Wildhalcyon> sounds strangely like your other language..
15:10:32 <Keymaker> comes from words plan B, but doesn't kinda look like it
15:10:33 <nooga> any examples can you introdouce?
15:10:59 <nooga> cool, it makes it more mysterious >
15:11:09 <Keymaker> (although it should be probably called plan f already..)
15:11:41 <Wildhalcyon> I saw some "sneak peak" syntax about four days ago that involved brackets like ( )... he coulda just been pullin' my leg
15:12:37 <Keymaker> you're clearly suspicious W, but i'll show you someday *evil laugh*
15:13:52 <Keymaker> you're too [some word i forgot], you can't wait for a month!
15:14:11 <Keymaker> when i was young planning an esolang took weeks
15:14:57 <Keymaker> but what i was about to say.. oh; if i'm to keep my current plan, which i think is cool, i will need a nop instruction, that's necessary for the language actually ;)
15:15:18 <Wildhalcyon> the word you're looking for is "impatient", and yes, I am.
15:15:29 <Keymaker> i had no time to look it up ;)
15:16:34 <Keymaker> but when the language is ready i think you will like it..
15:18:59 <kipple> haha. very good point, W
15:19:31 <kipple> that is often true for esolangs
15:19:45 <Keymaker> yes, the relationship to esolangs: i love this language *smashes keyboard* AAAARRGHG! success! this program works!
15:20:43 <Wildhalcyon> Kipple, I havent got a sentence out of glypho yet
15:21:34 <kipple> no, he means wrtiting code that looks like a proper sentence
15:22:48 <Keymaker> that would make nice wiki entry but i've never seen good examples
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16:31:52 <Keymaker> the thematic section in esowiki is nice
16:33:29 <Wildhalcyon> It makes me want to write a themed language
16:34:14 <Keymaker> it has quite many commands iirc..?
16:35:26 <Keymaker> but 15 is quite many compared to many other tar-pits
16:36:37 <Wildhalcyon> A stack tarpit naturally needs more commands than a tape-based tarpit
16:37:16 <Keymaker> i've made a stack tarpit that uses 7 instructions
16:37:36 <Keymaker> or not sure if it can be called stack
16:37:54 <Wildhalcyon> well, Ive had a couple complaints about my stack too
16:40:13 <Keymaker> the memory model is kind of ring, where you can push zero to end to create new value
16:40:32 <Keymaker> loops work the brainfuck way ( )
16:40:43 <Keymaker> and browsing memory works by spinning the ring memory right
16:40:44 <Wildhalcyon> Hmm... darn, Ouroboros wasn't that new after all
16:41:12 <Keymaker> and input and output instructions..
16:42:24 <Wildhalcyon> Im not sure if yours is. My almost exactly-the-same 12-instruction language is (I think). The difference is values are not just 0/1, you can spin either direction, and there's a dup and a swap command
16:42:48 <Wildhalcyon> I guess there's no reason yours couldn't be either
16:43:24 <Keymaker> yeah.. but this perhaps would need eight instruction, something to remove value from stack.. not sure
16:43:35 <Wildhalcyon> Anyhow, Im off to class now Mr. Maker of Keys
16:43:41 <Keymaker> and with wrapping memory cells i could use bytes.
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19:33:00 <wildhalcyon> no one has explained to me what shoopuf is
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19:49:45 <kipple> "Whats a Shoopuf? Play Final Fantasy X or X-2 on the Playstation 2. Seriously,
19:49:45 <kipple> I couldn't come up with a cool name. First thing that came to mind was the
19:49:45 <kipple> shoopuf from FFX (just rode one in the game =). "
19:49:56 <kipple> quoted from the spec....
19:50:02 <kipple> (and no, it's not my language)
19:51:14 <kipple> I don't think it has ever been published on the web
19:51:59 <nooga> heeel! im stupid~!
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20:03:58 <nooga> what looks complicated?
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21:48:04 <GregorR> Can't talk now, I'm going to get MOXIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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