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00:24:53 <ihope> I'm having a simple problem with Haskell, and am off to deploy it at #haskell.
00:29:39 <ihope> ...And I can't decide what to say.
00:36:27 <calamari> bbl.. gotta bite the bullet and install windows 2003 on here plain :(
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01:34:04 <ihope> http://pi.ytmnd.com/
01:58:18 <ihope> I'd love a version of that that just went on forever, as pi does/
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03:06:24 * calamari has turned to the dark side :(
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04:28:58 <calamari> and amazingly, I don't have sound, while I do in linux
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15:13:38 <ihope> This client auto-away-ifies me every time I run it.
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16:26:12 <nooga> have someone ever tried to write JIT VM ?
16:27:51 <nooga> just-in-time i mean
16:29:12 <jix> GregorR ;)
16:45:20 <nooga> http://rafb.net/paste/results/MS6Mtu81.html
16:45:45 <nooga> hehe, my first steps in obfuscating C ;p
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17:00:38 <nooga> http://rafb.net/paste/results/gGnr9276.html
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04:30:15 <Sgep> Really should be working on Mo** ***** [censored to protect name of project in fear that it might reveal something about my age]
04:30:29 * Sgep realizes that he /amsg'd that to everoyne...
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07:43:29 <GregorR> ¿Dondé esta el canal por discusión de lenguajes de programación esotéricos en Inglés?
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20:36:12 <jix> i just found a new (well infinity new) integer sequences...
20:38:37 <jix> it's defined as floor(1/fractional_part(pi*base^item)) .. item is starting with 0
20:39:06 <Keymaker> could you post some of the first numbers?
20:39:09 <jix> the first few terms for base 10 are: 7,2,6,1,1,3,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,3,4,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,2,2,1,3,3,1,1,1,34,3,1,1,2,5,1,\
20:39:09 <jix> 1,5,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,1,9,17,1,1,4,10,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,4,3,12,1,1,6,1,2,15,1,3,1,1,\
20:39:09 <jix> 4,11,1,1,1,1,1,3,1,28,2,2,1,3,1,2,2,4,8,5,1,14,1,1,1,1
20:40:05 <jix> there is even a constant for each base...
20:40:15 <jix> take the sequence as terms for a continued fraction...
20:41:00 <jix> for base 10 it's about 7.4645956186935248821352526824565788450892587833567236004356404248344757360301\
20:41:00 <jix> 88725175194269758874735
20:41:18 <jix> i think it's irrational
20:44:54 <jix> oh base can be a non-natural number too
20:46:23 <Keymaker> wouldn't be easy to make a program print out them in brainfuck
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21:27:01 <Gs30ng> we should put /me before our messages
21:27:06 <calamari> I need to enter my contest so you can win your abacus, don't I? :)
21:27:48 <Keymaker> you only talked about having at least one submission, and i've made two ;)
21:28:30 <Keymaker> i managed to squeeze two bytes. my final entry is thus 400 bytes exactly
21:29:40 <Keymaker> i'll post the md5 tomorrow, too lazy today
21:30:40 <Keymaker> the competition ends 5th, right?
21:32:48 <calamari> I have a Linux evangelism story...
21:33:03 <calamari> I had to install win2003 for vs.net (my c# class)
21:34:00 <calamari> so my wife used it yesterday.. she mentioned that Linux was better because there was no delay when typing and she missed the middle mouse button functionality :)
21:35:00 <Keymaker> i don't still have a mouse with a middle button
21:35:58 <calamari> middle mouse button emulation.. you are running x, right ?
21:36:21 <Keymaker> but no, i don't have any emulation on
21:36:38 <calamari> you can set it so that clicking both buttons at once produces a middle click
21:37:18 <Keymaker> i should just get a new mouse.. this old one doesn't even work properly anymore
21:37:32 <Keymaker> one can get a decent three button mouse for under ten euros
21:37:36 <calamari> back in the MS-DOS days I wrote a tsr that did that.. but I used the SysRq key on the keyboard
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21:44:53 <calamari> one of my homework problems is similar to having a bf with > but no <. Instead of < therei s an instuction to reset the tape to the left side.
21:46:30 <calamari> it's a little different than bf tho.. because it's a turing machine
21:47:27 <calamari> I think I've figured it out.. just need to work through an example to be sure
21:47:57 <calamari> of course this probably wouldn't apply to bf hehe
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21:58:57 <calamari> but that might be difficult to prove then
21:59:11 <calamari> because the two-tape proof relies on being able to move left
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22:03:56 <calamari> but it wouldn't work for bf, so it's probably not very interesting
22:06:38 <Keymaker> say, do you have anything you would want to ask urban mller about? ;)
22:07:07 <calamari> yeah.. why isn't he still participating in the eso community
22:07:39 <calamari> did you get ahold of him or something ? :)
22:07:52 <Keymaker> not yet, but i finally sent him e-mail
22:08:01 <Keymaker> and requested i could interview him
22:08:25 <calamari> please rephrase my question so that it isn't offensive :)
22:10:29 <Keymaker> by the way, has he been in the eso circles, other than brainfuck?
22:10:49 <calamari> I don't think so.. didn't he write bf in response to false?
22:11:24 <calamari> it just seems weird that bf isn't mentioned on his page.. and he never stops by and notices.. hey cool a bunch of people are using bf.. etc
22:11:53 <Keymaker> it's really something if your language is the standard way of proving turing-completeness of a new language
22:12:28 <Keymaker> no idea, perhaps could be questioned
22:12:56 <calamari> that would be a hard question.. wouldn't want to insinuate that he based bf upon it
22:13:51 <calamari> but it would be interesting to see what his response would be to it
22:14:18 <Keymaker> about ideas; for example, i've got some crazy ideas that some philosophers have thought hundreds of years ago, at the time i hadn't heard about philosophy at all
22:15:06 <Keymaker> people can get the same ideas and there often isn't any connection
22:15:52 <calamari> also.. what happened to ben olmstead?
22:17:33 <Keymaker> perhaps decided to write a malbolge quine, and hasn't been seen since that
22:18:10 <calamari> hey, you're good at quines... ;)
22:21:02 <calamari> hrm.. I can't think about bf while I have homework.. better finish it first :)
22:38:18 <calamari> what is .. called, if it is above a letter?
22:40:38 <calamari> yep.. dictionary.com has it.. calls it also a diacritic mark.
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02:03:07 * int-e finally got around to code up an entry for the a^nb^nc^n task :)
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03:44:34 <calamari> int-e: http://esoforum.kidsquid.com/ it didn't go anywhere, as far as I know :)
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10:35:27 <int-e> calamari: the forum was down (unreachable; the URL gave a 404 error) for half an hour or so earlier
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10:50:53 <Keymaker> aaargh.. i knew i will never win a brainfuck competition
10:51:10 <Keymaker> impressive amount of instructions, int-e
10:51:57 <int-e> Keymaker: I've micoroptimized one part; I'm at 346 now. I still wonder if there's a more clever algorithm though.
10:52:08 <int-e> Keymaker: the problem is surprisingly tricky for brainfuck
10:52:44 <Keymaker> it wasn't as simple as i expected, in the beginning
10:54:16 <int-e> same here. I actually tried to code something quickly shortly after the contest was announced and failed.
11:25:50 * Keymaker realized how to get the entry about 20 instructions smaller..
11:28:02 <int-e> well, do that two more times :)
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11:40:56 <Keymaker> int-e: done anything besides your solution in brainfuck for a while?
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01:12:24 <ihope> Yesterday I figured out what monads were.
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02:44:07 <GregorR> sekhmet: Hello grey-haired woman!
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11:39:30 <kipple> how goes your bizarre basic project?
11:41:45 <Keymaker> to be honest, i haven't worked it at all
11:42:23 <Keymaker> i mean, i haven't worked on it at all since the last time i talked about it, in the beginning of the project
11:43:17 <int-e> Keymaker: I chiseled off another 14 bytes from my entry last night :)
11:44:56 <Keymaker> int-e: i was just about to say that impressive job with the solution
11:45:24 <Keymaker> i wonder whether we have used the same algorithm
11:49:33 <Keymaker> but well, i assume your way is different, and obviously simpler
11:52:16 <kipple> hehe. that is a common fate for many esolang ideas I think :) (I have a lot of those myself)
11:54:45 <int-e> Keymaker: we'll see
11:55:33 <Keymaker> it's amazing program size.. when the competition began i was sure it'll be very hard for anyone to get the size under 500 instructions
11:57:03 <Keymaker> i didn't bother to shorten my program yesterday, since that wouldn't have helped that much.. at least get to release a nice 40x10 or 20x20 program block on my site when the competition is over..
11:57:41 <Keymaker> i'll post the md5 for the 400 instruction version after the simpsons..
11:57:49 <Keymaker> although there's no point basically :)
11:58:07 <int-e> that's a magical number :)
11:58:55 <int-e> it's a round number, it's a perfect square, it has no prime divisor >5 so it's quite smooth ...
12:00:15 <int-e> oh, btw, there are no boring integers.
12:00:24 <int-e> err, natural numbers.
12:00:35 <int-e> proof: assume that there are boring natural numbers
12:00:41 <Keymaker> by the way, gotta go for half an hour: the simpons :)
12:00:42 <int-e> then there'd be a smallest boring natural number
12:00:50 <int-e> as such, it'd be whooly remarkable.
12:03:43 <int-e> wholly. I knew I made a typo there.
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12:13:50 <lament> int-e: but there are boring reals, then?
12:15:16 <int-e> lament: definitely
12:15:44 <lament> it seems that the statement "there are no boring reals" is equivalent to the axiom of choice
12:15:48 <int-e> lament: because the things we can say about real numbers are countable
12:15:53 <lament> since it seems obvious that some reals are boring
12:15:59 <int-e> lament: so there are real numbers we can't really say anything about
12:16:01 <lament> then the axiom of choice must be false
12:16:31 <int-e> lament: hmm. not really.
12:16:41 <lament> int-e: Yes. the well-ordering principle!
12:16:44 <puzzlet> what are you talking about though
12:17:14 <int-e> lament: there's a countable model of set theory; this means that for every thing that can be proved, you only need countable many examples (witnesses) ...
12:18:41 <int-e> (at least as far as I remember, the von Neumann axioms can be modelled as first order formulas built on top of the 'element of' relation)
12:19:47 <lament> what's that have to do with anything?
12:20:34 <int-e> it means that even if the axiom of choice is true, you can still have uninteresting real numbers.
12:20:41 <int-e> you just don't need to use them anywhere.
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12:21:33 <lament> then exactly the same proof as for integers works for reals, too
12:21:59 <int-e> nope. you can say that the set of uninteresting reals has a member - but you can't name it
12:22:31 <int-e> there's nothing that helps you select one and only one out of them as being interesting.
12:22:37 <int-e> you need a well-ordering to do that.
12:22:49 <int-e> one that you can name
12:22:56 <lament> and the well-ordering principle is equivalent to AC
12:23:22 <int-e> lament: still, that only tells me that there are well orderings of the real numbers - but there are many of them; which one will you use?
12:23:43 * int-e sees nothing that makes one better than all others
12:24:07 <lament> int-e: what makes the <-relation ordering the best ordering for integers?
12:24:17 <int-e> lament: it's natural
12:36:37 <Keymaker> int-e: what kind of test calamari ought to run?
12:37:29 <Keymaker> i think the following: 1. file with only one new-line 2. file with few k of pattern "abc" 3. file with few ks of a, b, and c
12:37:57 <Keymaker> and perhaps something like bbbbccccaaaa
12:37:58 <int-e> Keymaker: I don't know. I've tested my program with short inputs (<=9 characters) and some selected long ones
12:41:22 <int-e> there are 29524 inputs of length <=9, which seems manageable
12:42:04 <int-e> for i in "" {a,b,c} {a,b,c}{a,b,c} {a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c} {a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c} {a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c} {a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c} {a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c} {a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c} {a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}{a,b,c}; do echo $i | ./bfigolf entry.b; done
12:42:29 <int-e> that's the basic idea
12:55:28 <int-e> . o O ( feeding invalid input to a program that does no error checking is bad )
12:56:26 <int-e> and I wonder why I'm getting Cell value too small (-1) errors :)
12:56:56 <int-e> there's an off-by-one bug in bfigolf.c (probably not serious though)
12:57:09 <Keymaker> (i've used another interpreter)
12:57:21 <int-e> namely, the realloc should be realloc(mem, (maxmp+1024+1)*sizeof(unsigned char))
12:57:34 <Keymaker> uh, i don't understand about that :)
12:57:35 <int-e> instead of the same without +1
12:58:00 <Keymaker> aha.. well, maybe you should inform calamari, i think
12:59:58 <Keymaker> int-e: any others than we going to enter the competition?
13:01:23 <int-e> Keymaker: I'll write a forum post
13:04:21 <int-e> Keymaker: I don't know; the usual suspects would be Laurent and Daniel. I've not heard anything from them for a while (but I've been staying away myself, too, so I wouldn't know.)
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13:08:18 <Keymaker> yeah.. laurent asked the value of new-line to be defined when the competition began, but haven't heard of him since then
13:08:42 <Keymaker> i hope we will get more entries
13:10:09 <Keymaker> jix was at least working on one, i think.. and calamari
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13:16:38 <int-e> heh. jix, are you still working on your bfgolf entry?
13:17:20 <int-e> (Keymaker and I are wondering if there will be more than 2 entries)
13:19:16 <Keymaker> well, at least it'll be interesting to see the different ways we (probably) are using
13:19:26 <fizzie> It was the a^n b^n c^n case?
13:20:24 <fizzie> I did consider trying to write an entry, but haven't had the time.
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13:20:39 <Keymaker> time seems to be a problem with many, i suppose
13:23:48 <Keymaker> int-e: got e-mail address? i'd need to ask one thing kinda related to this contest
13:24:42 <Keymaker> int-e: i can't use private messages
13:24:50 <Keymaker> int-e: unregistered users can't
13:25:16 <Keymaker> the reason i don't ask here in public is that the project is a surprise, kind of..
14:38:51 <Keymaker> *sigh* about 16 hours or something till the end of the competition..
14:46:35 <int-e> I'll definitely not write another entry nor optimize the one I have further *eg*
14:46:56 <int-e> unless someone submits a 331 bytes one
14:48:03 <Keymaker> yeah, it's a winning solution i'd assume
16:10:33 <int-e> Keymaker: eh, shouldn't that be 40 hours?
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19:20:10 <ihope> ```si`k``si`k``sii``s``s`kski
19:21:06 <ihope> I think that's the Church numeral for Steinhaus's Mega.
19:30:14 <ihope> And ```si`k``si`k``si`k``sii``s``s`kski is much, much bigger...
20:15:32 <ihope> Now here's a nice sequence: !1 = 2, !2 = 8, !3 = 402653184*2^402653184.
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20:44:28 <nooga> i want finally to develop own, huge, usefull language and become lie Larry Wall or Bjarne Stroustrup
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20:46:44 <nooga> who wants to help me? ;p
20:48:08 <GregorR> You want to become like Larry Wall, the primary developer of a language so huge and obnoxious that it's /not/ useful?
20:49:11 <lindi-> you mean "\/not\/" ? ;)
20:49:29 <nooga> oh, i will begin with simple things... like compiling arithmetic expressions, flow control and simple types
20:49:57 <lindi-> heh, i've spent the last two days writing a compiler for a school project
20:50:09 <ihope> Wait! Functional or imperative?
20:50:18 <nooga> i've spend last year trying to write complete compiler :]
20:50:47 <lindi-> nooga: you obviously lack some deadlines :)
20:51:08 <GregorR> nooga: Finish a compiler for it tomorrow or I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN
20:51:26 <nooga> i think it should be like C++ (but more like Java) + perl + ML ;]
20:51:40 <ihope> All imperative, then?
20:52:36 <lindi-> doesn't ML support functional programming well?
20:52:59 <nooga> but i meant "a little bit of ML"
20:53:32 <nooga> to allow something like this: a = {something; something; something;} + b;
20:53:52 <nooga> soemtimes it's usefull
20:54:09 <ihope> a = map (+b) [something,something,something]
20:55:42 <nooga> and i plan builtin perl-like regexp
20:56:03 <nooga> no fuc**g headers like in C++
20:56:27 <nooga> methods implemented inside classes
20:56:33 * GregorR tries to figure out what curse word is spelled fuc__g ... one too few letters for fucking ...
20:56:56 <nooga> but treat * like in wildcards...
20:57:14 <GregorR> I'll treat it like regex :P
20:57:20 <GregorR> So it could be fucccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccg
20:57:29 <ihope> Fucing, I suppose...
20:58:31 <GregorR> GASP YOU TYPED A CURSY WORD!!!!!!!
20:58:43 <nooga> i forgot about the FUCKING K before FUCKING C
20:59:03 * ihope stares in some ranom direction
20:59:41 <GregorR> (The random direction happens to be exactly towards the screen)
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21:03:35 * calamari suggests Linguine for the Ego Bot
21:04:42 * ihope wonders if IRCbots like lignuine
21:05:08 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls
21:05:10 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lazyk malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
21:05:14 <calamari> yeah, but they can only take one line.. :)
21:05:37 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls
21:05:37 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lazyk malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
21:05:48 <calamari> unless Gregor changed it so that programs can use \n for multiple lines
21:05:58 <nooga> there's SADOL there!!!
21:06:03 <lindi-> nooga: maybe http://www.cs.hut.fi/Opinnot/T-106.550/Harjoitustyo/vaihe3.pdf could be helpful to you?
21:07:12 <GregorR> Just use pastebin for multiple lines.
21:07:50 <nooga> !sadol (3~f1(5:a0:b1:i2@|<i#_0=i#_0(2?%i2:b+ba:a+ab:i+i1?%#_02ba:l,220@:l-l1!+f-,220l"1
21:08:58 <EgoBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181
21:09:43 <ihope> What would happen if I !bf +[]?
21:10:36 <nooga> lindi-: who makes this minijava?
21:11:00 <lindi-> nooga: what do you mean?
21:11:38 <nooga> who's Lina Salmela
21:12:07 <ihope> Hmm... did somebody just say "Testing"?
21:16:24 <nooga> sounds almost like minijavaa
21:19:27 <ihope> Maybe I could make a language called Lava...
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21:22:04 <calamari> mm Lava.. write hot code, spewing ash and poisonous fumes.. then let your code harden into an impenetrable mass
21:23:35 <nooga> excuse me for that "shut up"...0.0
21:24:02 <nooga> i got to lear ruby
21:24:27 <calamari> I'd buy a new perl book for version 5, if I ever used the books I currently have
21:24:51 <calamari> I could sell them as "Like New" :(
21:30:00 <nooga> i elarn new languages from the net and documentation
21:30:10 <nooga> i think the first two is the worse
21:30:19 <nooga> then every another is much easier
21:30:49 <jix> i learnd the first language from a computer magazine...
21:35:07 <nooga> my first was pascaal
21:35:21 <jix> my first was real-basic
21:35:28 <jix> a visual-basic clone for mac os
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21:54:08 <nooga> lindi-: tell me, is "Leena" name for a woman or man??
21:55:31 <lindi-> nooga: at least in finnish that's woman's name
21:59:50 <lindi-> nooga: that's man's name
22:01:21 <nooga> in Polish most woman's names are ended with 'a', only exeption is diminution for name Jakub - Kuba
22:01:28 <nooga> Kuba is man's name
22:02:39 <nooga> i think that avoids mistakes :>
22:06:09 <nooga> hm, does most adjectives in finnish end with -nen ?
22:06:49 <lindi-> nooga: some do but i wouldn't say that most
22:07:26 <nooga> i'm just flipping through a finnish dictionary
22:07:54 <nooga> i've tried to learn finnish but there's no good courses
22:08:15 <nooga> only phrase books and dictionaries ;/
22:12:03 <nooga> and it's hell hard!
22:13:44 <Gs30ng> Polish is well known as a truly hard one
22:14:08 <nooga> but Finnish is worse ;d
22:14:57 <nooga> well.. maybe that's because I use Polish fluently from child
22:15:09 <nooga> and it's my natural, native language
22:15:33 <Gs30ng> for english-native, it's really hard to learn korean
22:15:46 <Gs30ng> but for korean-native, learning english is somewhat easier
22:16:01 <nooga> same here i think...
22:16:25 <Gs30ng> since korean is refered to be more complex than english
22:16:31 <Gs30ng> so may the force be with you, nooga
22:16:37 <nooga> english is easier than Polish, Korean, Chineese, Finnish, Hungarian, Russian, Nyjorsk, Dannish... and some other ;;p
22:17:24 <Gs30ng> i think you(and i)'ve got a good condition to learn another language... having a complex lang for own native lang
22:19:51 <nooga> frend of mine have learned hangul
22:24:48 <nooga> but i saw a Finn in out TV who speaks Polish fluently and without any odd accent
22:25:39 <lindi-> nooga: just try to IRC on finnish channels :)
22:26:15 <nooga> how do you "21th" in Finnish?
22:27:07 <lindi-> kahdeskymmenesensimminen
22:28:00 <nooga> and kuka means "who" but kukka means "a flower"
22:28:26 <nooga> mato - worm, matto - carpet
22:29:03 <nooga> puro - stream, puuro - porridge
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22:29:09 <lindi-> right. it shouldn't be a problem if you write them. pronouncing might be trickier for a foreigner though
22:29:57 <nooga> those 16 diphtongs are also quite hard
22:31:04 <nooga> for me it's hard to say something between a and e and i :)
22:31:18 <nooga> because Polish is rather hard
22:32:16 <nooga> i mean we've got hard speech sounds
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21:36:26 <calamari> hmm.. I wonder if it is possible to simulate a Turing machine that is possibly a decider, or whether I can only simulate a recognizer
21:36:54 <calamari> (I mean if the TM is possibly a decider or a recognizer, but I don't know which)
21:37:22 <calamari> err strike that.. makes no sense :)
21:38:25 <calamari> the halting problem I think tells me that I can't simulate a TM and produce a decider
21:46:36 <Sgep> decider? recognizer?
21:46:51 <calamari> <calamari> err strike that.. makes no sense :)
21:47:44 <calamari> the only recognizers I know of are for TM's and Tron.. hehe
21:49:29 <calamari> hmm, actually maybe it would work
21:49:44 <calamari> if the simulation got to a reject state then it would reject
21:50:00 <calamari> I was getting confused with nondeterministic TM's
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22:20:37 <Keymaker> bertram and daniel have posted very short entries..
22:24:34 <Keymaker> i can't wait to see their solutions
22:25:31 <calamari> I unfortunately can't justify writing an entry :( too much homework .. working on it now even
22:26:13 <calamari> maybe I can extend the deadline a couple weeks.. (just kidding)
22:26:31 <Keymaker> what time is it over there now?
22:27:29 <calamari> wow.. my watch is over 12 minutes off from them real time
22:27:57 <Keymaker> hmm, when i wake up tomorrow, the competition has ended. nice :D
22:28:15 <Keymaker> then i can get to see the others' entries..
22:28:48 <calamari> yeah.. although I still need to write the test cases
22:28:54 <Keymaker> well, in case nobody else enters i'm kinda "third" ;)
22:28:59 <calamari> and that won't be happening until after finals
22:29:14 <Keymaker> 1. file with only one new-line
22:29:27 <Keymaker> 2. file with few ks of "abc" pattern
22:29:28 <calamari> I have 11 different orderings of a b and c I need to test for :)
22:29:59 <Keymaker> remember to have some long tests, over 255 chars of each
22:30:20 <calamari> I'll probably write some randomly generated tests as well
22:30:46 <calamari> but everyone will be tested with the same things, for fairness
22:31:24 <calamari> ok, afk to continue my thrilling proof of the equivalence of a 2 stack PDA and TM
22:44:07 <fizzie> Are you doing that just for fun, or is it an exercise of some sort?
22:44:21 <fizzie> Can't you just say it's obvious that they're equivalent? :p
22:50:21 <fizzie> Heh, on the 'introduction to theoretical computer science' course we mostly had to just design TMs for various languages. Though there were some "prove foo" exercises, too.
22:53:35 <Gs30ng> the more powerful model of computation, TM > PDA > FSA, right?
22:54:07 <calamari> TM > decider > nondeterministic PDA > deterministic PDA > FSA
22:54:29 <Gs30ng> iirc PDA has it's own stack-like data management system
22:55:09 <Gs30ng> FSA does not, but PDA has one stack-like thing
22:55:26 <Gs30ng> so i think that term '2 stack PDA' is a little bit weird
22:56:30 <calamari> on the homework it is described as a k stack PDA, where k=0 an NFA, k=1 a normal PDA
22:57:04 <calamari> NFA being a nodeterministic FSA
22:57:36 <calamari> NFA's and FSA's are equally powerful
22:57:49 <calamari> as are TM's and nondeterministic TM's
22:58:24 <fizzie> And n-track TM's and n-tape TM's, although that's somewhat obvious too.
22:58:30 <calamari> there is some question whether a probabilistic TM is more powerful than a normal TM.. at least according to wikipedia
23:05:03 <calamari> argh.. PDA's don't give EOF.. messing up my proof. hehe
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09:54:24 * Keymaker thinks about writing a brainfuck program that prints out its own amount of instructions as integer
10:14:41 <Keymaker> this isn't what i originally had in mind, but it looks nice :)
10:14:42 <Keymaker> ++-++-++-++-++[>++++++++<-]>+++..
10:24:11 <Keymaker> here is a bit shorter version, that looks better
10:24:14 <Keymaker> >>>+++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---.
10:29:57 <Keymaker> here's a 32-byte version that prints a new-line too
10:29:59 <Keymaker> >++++++++++[>+>+++++<<-]>>+.-.<.
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12:49:03 <Keymaker> what is wrong with this python code?
12:49:49 <kipple> don't you need to increment i?
12:50:02 <Keymaker> but that whole thing doesn't work
12:50:27 * kipple doesn't know python :(
12:50:44 <Keymaker> i'm not very familiar with this either, as you can see ;)
12:51:19 <int-e> NameError: name 'i' is not defined
12:51:25 <int-e> that's quite a clue, isn't it?
12:51:44 <int-e> add a i = 0 before the loop and it's an infinite loop
12:52:14 <Keymaker> i thought i tried it already :)
12:52:43 <Keymaker> i thought python didn't need variable defining
12:53:25 <int-e> hmm, that's not quite true. (obviously)
12:53:39 <int-e> but you don't need to declare the variable before assigning a value to it
12:53:58 <int-e> (that's slightly different though, it prints the 0, too)
12:54:08 <int-e> (and goes past the 0 if the list is longer)
12:57:36 <int-e> (ok. that's the obvious alternative if you don't need the index later - I'll stop now)
13:07:31 <Keymaker> i hate normal languages.. grhh
13:08:17 <int-e> Hmm. I think Python is very neat.
13:44:13 <Keymaker> done; http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/selfmd5.py
13:45:32 <Keymaker> it's md5 (and output) is (or at least should be) b1f532d69db9c1366389ff855da9ae04
13:47:50 <int-e> ", ".join(map(str, [45,45,45])) -> "45, 45, 45"
13:48:07 <int-e> you might like this :)
13:48:47 <int-e> (it works on arbitrary lists, of course)
13:49:18 <int-e> hmm. actually strings don't hurt either
13:49:35 <int-e> (but Python prefers to print them with '')
13:49:48 <Keymaker> perhaps my python version is too old
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13:51:08 <int-e> I have 2.4.2 - which is fairly modern.
13:51:28 <int-e> it works in 2.3 too
13:53:01 <Keymaker> hmm, do i need to have anything else in the file than that code line?
13:53:11 <int-e> did you strip off the ' -> [...]' part?
13:53:42 <Keymaker> the interpreter was complaining about "->" part
13:54:07 <int-e> I just used it to show the result on the same line.
13:56:16 <Keymaker> consider nothing obvious when talking to me about something ;)
13:56:44 * jix is working on a emulator...
13:56:55 <jix> colecovision
13:57:09 <jix> some z80 game-device
13:57:23 <jix> using sound and graphic chips from TI
13:58:58 <jix> there are internet sites that describe the hardware
13:59:34 <jix> and i know how the z80 works by viewing offical and inoffical z80 documentation
14:03:05 <int-e> s = ['print s', 'print "\\n".join(s)']
14:03:05 <int-e> print "\n".join(s)
14:03:22 <int-e> hmm, one space too much.
14:03:31 <int-e> should be print "s =", s
14:03:52 <int-e> s = ['print "s =", s', 'print "\\n".join(s)']
14:03:52 <int-e> print "\n".join(s)
14:04:19 <int-e> (the fun thing is that python quotes strings inside lists when printing lists)
14:06:12 <int-e> you can exploit the same thing with the str() function
14:06:22 <int-e> so it can be used for the md5sum program as well
14:07:13 <jix> ruby port:
14:07:14 <jix> s = ["puts 's = '+s.inspect","puts s"]
14:07:14 <jix> puts 's = '+s.inspect
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16:32:48 <int-e> 247 bytes is quite impressive.
16:35:36 <Keymaker> it's amazing how the task got optimized
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21:25:56 <Keymaker> bf-hacks.org has been updated with a new program i made up today!
21:25:58 <Keymaker> http://bf-hacks.org/hacks/ptmbsg.b
21:26:21 <Keymaker> it's a Prouhet-Thue-Morse binary sequence generator
21:26:39 <Keymaker> i think it's one of my best programs. check it out :)
21:39:15 <jix> one of my best programs (sort) not the shortest sort but very short: >>,[[-[->>+<<]+>>]<+<[-<<]>>,]+[>[-<.>]<[->>+<<]>>+]
21:39:35 <jix> it sorts all input bytes
21:40:17 <jix> uses 0 for eof...
21:41:25 <Keymaker> that kind of thing has once been in bf golf if i remember correct. if you had been around at that time you would've placed well
21:41:34 <Keymaker> (i wasn't around at that time, btw)
21:42:14 <jix> the version at short.b (where the shortest hw is in) is 1 or 2 bytes shorter than mine
21:42:38 <Keymaker> so, that's pretty good solution ;)
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01:54:28 <ihope> I'm writing a Haskell program that will write a Foobar program that will output the 99 bottles of beer song.
01:55:12 <ihope> Since that song is less that 65536 characters, actually doing this "the right way" is not fundamentally better than doing it via brute force.
02:04:05 <ihope> Yay! Two hundred kilobytes of "foobeer.omy".
02:22:52 <Sgep> Any comments on my interpreter?
02:24:45 <ihope> Still haven't tried it yet
02:28:12 * Sgep wonders why he claimed that spaces need to be removed
02:28:47 <ihope> Hmm, apparently nothing between the first hash sign and the second pasted properly.
02:30:06 <ihope> Hmm, boop. How do I save a file in vi?
02:35:49 <fizzie> Or ":w file.bleh" if you've opened an unnamed file.
02:38:21 <ihope> I decided to use cat instead :-P
02:39:16 <fizzie> "Halp! I'm trapped in vi and I can't get out!"
02:40:23 <ihope> Well, I got your interpreter pasted into a JPEG file...
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16:30:09 <graue> just for the record, the wiki mirror at http://esolang.kidsquid.com/ is showing a bunch of PHP errors, and calamari should fix it
16:30:48 <graue> well, that's really all I had to say here
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18:55:59 <nooga> what was the name of that esolang with random execution order?
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17:54:18 <Keymaker> hmmm, anyone familiar with reading binary files in c in windows/dos?
17:58:22 <Keymaker> reading the files :) could you write a simple program that'd open something file and read a byte from it to variable and then close the file?
17:59:20 <Keymaker> and show how to read a word and a double word?
18:03:02 <Keymaker> come on, i can get never started unlike someone shows me this simple thing :)
18:14:25 <Keymaker> perhaps i should use python instead.. but can it compile?
18:15:20 <Keymaker> although i have no idea how to do these things in python either
18:22:55 <lindi-> Keymaker: int byte; FILE *fp; fp = open("somefile", "rb"); assert(fp); byte = fgetch(fp); assert(byte != EOF); // reads one byte
18:23:27 <lindi-> Keymaker: what endianess do you want to use with the words?
18:23:48 <Keymaker> hmm, not sure which one is it.. it's the one used in windows/dos
18:37:11 <Keymaker> oh this is so frustrating.. hopefully the last time ever i use c
18:37:58 <lindi-> you better check the byteorder somewhere :)
18:39:40 <lindi-> int byte1, byte2, word; byte1 = fgetch(fp); byte2=fgetch(fp); word = byte1+(byte2<<8) // reads one little-endian word
18:39:59 <lindi-> Keymaker: just make that a function and it's less painless
18:40:30 <lindi-> and remember checks for EOF
18:40:55 <lindi-> depends on how you want to fail of course
18:41:06 <lindi-> assert(byte1 != EOF) will kill the whole program
18:42:30 <Keymaker> thanks. i don't understand this stuff, so, do i need to close the file somehow?
18:43:02 <lindi-> Keymaker: it's just a debugging aid which i tend to overuse :)
18:43:33 <Keymaker> and the last question, is there any way to read from exact hex address?
18:43:44 <lindi-> Keymaker: from the file?
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18:44:18 <nooga> http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-sadol-941.html
18:44:27 <nooga> someone codes in sadol !
18:44:37 <lindi-> Keymaker: check the manual ;)
18:44:43 <nooga> and i dont know him (probably)
18:44:54 <lindi-> Keymaker: and ask if it's unclear
18:48:40 <nooga> someone has written a program in my language
19:23:34 * nooga is writing SADOL2 interpreter
19:43:49 <Keymaker> lindi-: what should i do to get the file-to-be-opened given as argument for the program? like, prog1 file.txt
19:46:32 <fizzie> int main(int argc, char ** argv) { FILE * fp; if(argc != 2) die(); fp = fopen(argv[1], "rb"); ...
19:48:28 <fizzie> And fseek(fp, offset, SEEK_SET); makes future fread()s (or fgetch()s) start at 'offset' bytes from the start of the file.
19:54:11 <Keymaker> f... ten errors in few lines already..
19:54:15 <nooga> Keymaker learns C ?
19:54:38 <Keymaker> well, my purpose isn't try to learn it, just code one program :)
19:55:02 <nooga> in what did you code until now?
19:55:17 <Keymaker> and will code in the future as well..
19:55:29 <Keymaker> i've used c sometimes, but never these file things
19:55:48 <Keymaker> but well, the programs i've written in c this far have been minimal.
19:57:40 <Keymaker> fizzie: those things require more than stdio.h?
19:58:20 <Keymaker> then i guess i'm having some problem in my c compiler.. or in dev-c++
19:59:58 <Keymaker> it doesn't complain errors but it complains "undefined reference to `die'" and doesn't create anything
20:02:10 <lindi-> Keymaker: by "die()" fizzie meant that you need to handle the error somehow
20:02:58 <nooga> its in perl en php though
20:03:17 <Keymaker> hmm, i thought i've seen it in c before
20:03:41 <Keymaker> but nevertheless, now it complains about "undefined reference to `fgetch'"
20:03:42 <lindi-> Keymaker: you can create the function yourself
20:03:57 <lindi-> Keymaker: sorry, it's fgetc()
20:04:13 <fizzie> Heh, thought it was fgetc() but since lindi used fgetch... :p
20:04:25 <nooga> void die(char* s) {printf("error: %s",s); exit(1);}
20:04:39 <lindi-> getch must be some ncurses stuff
20:05:20 <Keymaker> argh, the functions.. i wouldn't like to use own functions but i guess it's rather necessary
20:05:48 <Keymaker> or well, not necessary, but might ease the work
20:07:29 <fizzie> Tests that there are two arguments provided to the program.
20:07:34 <fizzie> (The first one is always the program name.)
20:08:03 <Keymaker> then, how do i check the file is there?
20:08:13 <fizzie> If it isn't, fopen() fails.
20:10:54 <Keymaker> there's "fp = fopen(argv[1], "rb");"
20:11:03 <Keymaker> how do i check if fopen returns null?
20:11:54 <lindi-> Keymaker: if (fp == NULL) { fprintf(stderr, "Failed to open file\n"); exit(1); }
20:12:06 <nooga> Keymaker: how many languages did you invent?
20:12:28 <nooga> *have you invented?
20:13:01 <Keymaker> nooga: unnecessary and trigger (partly)
20:13:12 <Keymaker> and some unreleased, unfinished
20:13:25 <nooga> and you have problems with C
20:13:45 <Keymaker> brainfuck makes sense, this does not
20:14:06 <jix> i'm coding my emulator in c
20:14:08 <nooga> nice, warm, lovely, functional paradigm
20:14:16 <jix> but i'm a c beginner...
20:14:39 <Keymaker> you, a beginner?! and managed to write a kipple interpreter?
20:14:57 <nooga> jix: check out http://regedit.risp.pl/nosense/
20:16:07 <nooga> i'm coding next idea of that guy (a friend of mine) - sqr16, 8 bit machine emulator with only 256 bytes of memory :D
20:16:11 <jix> nooga: i did something like this before.. but i didn't took it to that level...
20:16:25 <jix> only simple terminal IO
20:16:33 <jix> simple instruction set
20:16:38 <jix> but now i'm writing a z80 emulator
20:16:41 <nooga> i plan to use xanalogtv as a display
20:16:45 <jix> for a coleco vision emulator
20:16:59 <nooga> like in the "apple][" screensaver for linux
20:18:56 <nooga> http://images.opentopia.com/enc/3/2116/Apple2_BSOD.jpg
20:19:25 <nooga> http://images.opentopia.com/enc/3/2116/Apple2_Screensaver.jpg
20:19:55 <nooga> oh http://hactar.net/kzed/images/ircpower.jpg
20:20:00 <nooga> it looks like this
20:20:20 <nooga> xanalogtv emulates old, damaged tv display :D
20:20:23 <jix> where do i get xanalogtv?
20:20:30 <jix> (i know the apple][ screen saver)
20:20:41 <jix> would be cool for coleco vision emulator too
20:21:17 <nooga> check out the sources of xscreensaver
20:21:45 <fizzie> I've started to write two z80 emulators already. :p
20:22:07 <nooga> http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man1/xanalogtv.1.html
20:22:10 <fizzie> (Neither one got very far - although I think both times I had the z80 cpu part semi-done.)
20:23:05 <nooga> i just hate kdevelop
20:23:23 <nooga> all that mess with automake and autoconf
20:23:38 <jix> fizzie: i implemented LD PUSH POP and EX ....
20:23:54 <jix> i'm implementing the decoding atm (i use code generation because i want to finish it...)
20:24:43 <nooga> i see that z80 is quite popular
20:31:05 <nooga> i thought about a script for generating some opcodes' code
20:31:26 <nooga> because there are many of almost equal
20:33:53 <jix> i do that...
20:34:01 <jix> it's like a specialized macro system
20:39:20 <fizzie> I used to have a Z80 datasheet/manual here, too. Although as I didn't bother emulating the timing issues, any old opcode list would've been as good.
20:40:04 <jix> i use z80-documentated.pdf
20:40:09 <jix> it's very complete...
20:41:47 <Keymaker> mh, this program doesn't work correctly
20:42:15 <Keymaker> int main(int argc, char ** argv){
20:42:15 <Keymaker> if (argc != 2){ die("An argument is missing (input file)."); };
20:42:15 <Keymaker> if (fp == NULL){ die("Failed to open file."); }
20:42:33 <fizzie> Should you perhaps fopen first and check fp == NULL after?
20:43:04 <fizzie> I think it might make sense.
20:43:22 <fizzie> Now I'd need to design a MIPS R3000 CPU and a MMU for it, and optionally a FPU too. Optionally with VHDL descriptions so it can be simulated. A bit too low-level for my tastes.
20:44:08 <Keymaker> yeah, it makes sense, but the behaviours stays as strange as before
20:44:52 <Keymaker> it doesn't print the stuff in die() and quits strangely
20:47:59 <jix> i have two files decode.table... does the opcode => instruction mapping... and instructions.in.c that contains the code for the instructions... i use ruby code to parse both and combine them into compilable c code
20:48:16 <jix> a line in decode.table looks like: ON 0xDD 0b01110aaa bDO LD_de1(`Rix`, a:r, b)T 19 # LD (IX+d),r
20:49:01 <jix> and LD_de1 is defined in instructions.in.c
20:49:47 <jix> backticks can contain any c code... it's inserted into the template at instructions.in.c
20:50:06 <jix> a:r says look up the c code for every possible a in the enum table r
20:50:53 <Keymaker> someone; how do i read a double word?
20:51:11 <Keymaker> (lindi-: the code for reading word works perfectly)
20:51:54 <fizzie> Just extrapolate on it. byte1, byte2, byte3, byte4 - fgetc four times - dword = (byte1 << 24) | (byte2 << 16) | (byte3 << 8) | byte4.
20:52:19 <jix> or use read.. (check byte order!)
20:52:36 <lindi-> fizzie: that would read big-endian dword though
20:52:51 <fizzie> Well, big-endian is what makes sense. :p
20:53:21 <jix> if you use fread on big-endian it reads big-endian if runs on little it reads little endian
20:53:35 <lindi-> jix: yeah, and that's very bad
20:53:48 <fizzie> You could use "unsigned int foo; fread(&foo, 4, 1, fp);" if you didn't care about portability.
20:54:13 <lindi-> things like int being 16-bits and so on...
20:54:17 <Keymaker> well, i don't care about portability since it's a level editor for old dos game
20:54:28 <lindi-> please care about portability :)
20:54:37 <lindi-> as it's so easy in this case
20:54:53 <Keymaker> fizzie's first code or second?
20:55:02 <lindi-> Keymaker: fizzies code but reverse the order of bytes
20:55:48 <Keymaker> like "dword = (byte4 << 24) | (byte3 << 16) | (byte2 << 8) | byte1"?
20:56:45 <Keymaker> well, i can't make functions of those
20:59:11 <Keymaker> would the fgetc work if i call it from some function?
20:59:21 <fizzie> Uh. int read_word(FILE * fp) { int byte1, byte2; byte1 = fgetc(fp); byte2 = fgetc(fp); return byte1 | (byte2 << 16); }
20:59:28 <fizzie> (Without error-checking.)
20:59:46 <fizzie> Why wouldn't it work when called from a function?
21:00:21 <Keymaker> i don't understand how it works
21:00:36 <Keymaker> when i call it, do i need to have something inside ( ) ?
21:01:17 <fizzie> How would you write it when calling fgetc?
21:01:39 <fizzie> Well, "fp". If that's what you call it.
21:01:59 <fizzie> fp = fopen(..); foo = read_word(fp); ...
21:03:32 <lindi-> and error checking for every other line ;)
21:04:09 <Keymaker> i think i'll leave the error checking out, it's too annoying
21:04:42 <lindi-> you'll hit nasty bugs if you do that
21:10:25 <Keymaker> is int two bytes or does that need to be defined somehow to keep portability?
21:10:56 <jix> int is somewhere between 8 and 64 bytes.. (most of the time.. there may be exceptions...)
21:11:18 <jix> it could be something different than a multiple of 8 bits...
21:11:24 <jix> if a byte != 8bits...
21:11:25 <lindi-> at least here it's 4 bytes
21:11:37 <jix> #include <stdint.h>
21:12:04 <jix> you get things like int32_t for a 32bit signed int
21:12:05 <lindi-> and in real mode dos system it's 2 bytes
21:12:13 <jix> or uint16_t
21:12:25 <jix> you can typedef to u16 and s16 and u32....
21:12:36 <jix> typedef uint8_t u8;
21:12:36 <jix> typedef int8_t s8;
21:12:40 <Keymaker> well, i don't understand any of those lines, but ok
21:12:51 <jix> then u8 is a 8bit unsigned
21:13:03 <jix> replace 8bit with the bit count you want..
21:14:31 <fizzie> Or just use "uint16_t foo" for a 16-bit word, and "uint32_t bar" for a 32-bit dword - they're not _that_ long that you'd need to abbreviate them to u16 or u32.
21:15:12 <jix> i don't use uint16_t because i always type things liek int_16t or uint16t or t_uint16...
21:16:18 <fizzie> And then again, that's not the most portable solution. It might not work on, say, a Cray, where 16-bit integers don't exist. A more portable choice would be to use int_least16_t and int_least32_t from stdint.h.
21:17:00 <jix> if you need exactly that amount of bits that won't work... making it even worse because it compiles without errors...
21:17:18 <fizzie> I don't think he needs exactly that amount of bits.
21:17:53 <fizzie> You just think you do. :p
21:18:31 <fizzie> One can always add "&0xffff"s there.
21:18:31 <Keymaker> i don't dare even think what kind of problems there will be with file saving..
21:18:51 <jix> fizzie: but i don't want to do that
21:21:47 <fizzie> Then you'll probably need to do something like #ifdef UINT8_MAX typedef uint8_t u8; #define SET8(a,b) ((a) = (b)) #define GET8(a) (a) #else typedef uint_fast8_t u8; #define SET8(a,b) ((a) = ((b)&0xff)) #define GET8(a) ((a)&0xff) #endif, if you want your thing to work on platforms where no 8-bit integers exist.
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00:17:43 <Keymaker> well, guess i just couldn't get them working
00:18:17 <fizzie> If you want to allocate an array dynamically, you can use something like "uint8_t * blaharray = malloc(1234); if(blaharray == NULL) die();" and then free(blaharray); when you're finished. blaharray can obviously be a global variable too.
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01:09:24 <kipple_> go to the store, buy some more
01:09:33 <kipple_> 99 bottles of moxie on the wall...
01:10:17 <GregorR> I have to make an appointment, go to a crazy scary place while trying not to spontaneusly combust, be ridiculed, and finally get some Moxie.
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02:41:40 <graue> you should fix your mirror of the esoteric programming language wiki; it currently shows error messages
02:42:14 <calamari> ahh.. didn't realize that.. thanks for letting me know :)
02:42:47 <calamari> has anything changed on your end, wiki-wise?
02:43:32 <graue> the database backup may have been down one day before I realized my mistake and fixed it
02:45:19 <calamari> the translation I'm doing is going from a later version to an older one (because my web provider won't upgrade mysql).. so it's probably due to something that was never used that I hadn't converted.. maybe it is being used now
03:00:54 <calamari> bah.. this cdrw drive is gone :(
03:03:02 <calamari> really sad.. the drive on my ancient power mac that I got from the thrift store is still working fine.. and a 3 year old drive dies
03:07:14 <graue> they don't make 'em like they used to
03:09:27 <calamari> well.. I guess this means I can buy myself a dvd writer for christmas :)
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13:48:53 <nooga> jaro3000: use egobot
13:49:02 <nooga> it has got SADOL support
13:49:15 <nooga> but it's not here!
13:50:48 <jaro3000> ok, so i'll give you code ( exactly two codes ) - run it in BDSM locally :-)
13:51:02 <jaro3000> (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
13:52:28 <jaro3000> second one is more intresting :-)
13:52:36 <jaro3000> (7:C",228!R!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(:R",228(7:C",2289"!R!:R",2287"!C!R!!R!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(
13:53:29 <nooga> it's probbly first quine written in SADOL :>
13:54:09 <jaro3000> and first eniuq i think ( it's just like quine, but output code is reversed :-P )
13:55:11 <nooga> i was too lazy to even try to write a quine in my own language ;p
13:55:40 <jaro3000> name "SADOL" isn't mistake :-P
13:56:31 <nooga> i think i must write a final specification and write an entry to esolangs.org wiki and wikipedia
13:56:32 <jaro3000> but writing that eniuq was pretty cool :-)
13:59:35 <nooga> uR t3h uB3R Haxx0r
14:02:02 <nooga> jaro3000: what do you think about computational class of SAODL
14:02:15 <nooga> is it Turing-complete?
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14:42:07 <nooga> jaro3000: r u there?
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15:47:46 <jaro3000> nooga: it's possible to implement in SADOL everything what we can implement in Brainfuck ( especially Brainfuck interpreter :-) ), so SADOL is Turning-complete
15:57:40 <Keymaker> sigh.. could fizzie or some other point out how do i write to file in c?
15:59:06 <nooga> you dont know how to write a file in c ?
16:00:10 <nooga> FILE* blah = fopen("file.txt","w"/*or "a" to append*/); fprintf(blah,"text"); fclose(blah);
16:00:37 <Keymaker> does it work on binary mode if i use wb or ab?
16:01:15 <Keymaker> and, can i have multiple files open at the same time?
16:06:03 <lindi-> Keymaker: you just need multiple FILE pointers
16:10:05 <nooga> jaro3000 wrote a quine in SADOL
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02:09:10 <lament> cpressey: ready for the exam? :)
02:13:40 <lament> i hate how we never use the (define (foo a b c)) form
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09:46:27 <dsh> oops... somebody already owned this
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09:51:16 <handongseong> too tiresome to deal with people asking me what's wrong with me and that convenience store company, again and again
09:54:34 <handongseong> and why freenode does not allow UTF-8 nicknames?
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10:14:24 <nooga> i've written SADOL description in the wiki
10:15:29 <handongseong> i'm developing a language partially inspired by sadol
10:15:39 <nooga> im glad to hear this :>
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10:31:00 <nooga> who needs another tape language!
10:31:12 <nooga> funcional paradigm is soo cool
10:32:08 <nooga> (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C < a quine without almighty lambda function ;p
11:14:18 <nooga> the truth is that i dont even know LISP :D
11:17:22 <nooga> handongseong: can you tell something about your new language partially inspired by SADOL >?
11:19:31 <handongseong> but it's gonna be nothing neither monad nor uniqueness type
11:20:39 <handongseong> and you know, i can only design a language that i can understand
11:21:12 <handongseong> so it's gonna be kinda easy-to-learn, but hard-to-actually-program, just like another esoteric ones
11:21:39 <nooga> 2 dimensional functional language? :>
11:21:47 <handongseong> you may wonder how can i implement purely functional one with a plane
11:21:54 <nooga> that's something new
11:22:56 <handongseong> but i've got a good idea to combine 2d and functional paradigm, so wait and see how monstrous this one will be
11:23:59 <nooga> i just can't wait :>
11:25:19 <handongseong> here's a traditional imperative stack-based one
11:25:32 <handongseong> 1 pushes 1 on top of the stack, 2 pushes 2... blah blah
11:25:59 <handongseong> now, here's a functional, reverse polish notation one
11:26:29 <handongseong> + is a binary function that returns the sum of 2 arguments
11:26:54 <handongseong> can be both imperative stack based one or functional one
11:27:57 <handongseong> a funge program can be considered partially functional
11:29:38 <nooga> btw. reverse polish notation is called in Polish language: "odwrotna notacja polska"
11:30:31 <handongseong> wait... my language is forward polish notation?!
11:31:16 <nooga> SADOL is forward polish notation
11:31:20 <handongseong> i want there a Korean-something in computer science
11:31:47 <handongseong> Korea is kinda graveyard of real computer science -_-
11:32:17 <nooga> but you're making many MMO games :>
11:32:34 <nooga> i used to play MU Online -.-'
11:32:56 <nooga> it was stupid, simple and addicting :>
11:33:14 <handongseong> i haven't played MU actually but always seen advertisement of it on subway train
11:34:17 <puzzlet> Ragnarok was internationally popular once
11:34:59 <nooga> now i have tried Lineage 2
11:35:10 <nooga> i think it's also Korean
11:35:47 <handongseong> Lineage is one of the most successful MMORPG in Korea
11:36:25 <nooga> because there are sexy elves everywhere in it ;p
11:37:19 <handongseong> it used to be regarded as a big problem by some conservative politicians
11:37:36 <nooga> really, check the fanarts or concept arts
11:37:43 <nooga> http://www.lineage2.com/community/fanart.html
11:39:10 <handongseong> puzzlet, since i'm not sure it *is* a hot issue, but i'm sure it was, thus what i said.
11:40:25 <handongseong> but i think it's quite important for MMORPG to have beautiful player characters
11:40:40 <handongseong> since the gamers have some kinda... empathy? on their characters
11:40:42 <nooga> a friend of mine knows Hangul
11:41:12 <nooga> hehe, i've got nude patch for L2
11:41:28 <nooga> and for Half Life 2
11:41:30 <puzzlet> they make patch for everything
11:42:13 <nooga> take some textures of human body, change the models a bit... voila
11:42:35 <nooga> imho HL@ is the best game ever
11:43:23 <handongseong> sometimes that kinds of patches worsen the gameplay... i once used no-mosaic patch for an adult game and it was truly horrible
11:44:12 <handongseong> forced to recover the mosaic immediately, which was impossible, so re-installed the whole game -_-
12:17:43 <nooga> i've found a cool game
12:19:04 <nooga> http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?gameid=653
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12:30:12 <fizzie> The adventure game B.A.T. 2 ( http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=83 ) has a befunge-like programming language (albeit sadly quite limited) in it.
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12:57:53 <nooga> Logical is great idea for an esolang
13:01:12 <nooga> damn.. I have problems with running dosbox under SUSE10
13:08:56 <puzzlet> why, dosbox should be one of the least problematic
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13:28:51 <nooga> i had to compile it by myself ;p
14:11:26 <nooga> where's egobot huh?
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20:38:58 <cpressey> fizzie: i've heard rumours that there was some kind of giant-robot-fighting-game (for NES?) that used a befunge-like control language... but i don't know anything more about it
20:39:09 <cpressey> i'd be interested, if anyone happens to know
20:58:52 <calamari> dunno about that.. but there is always Atari 2600 Basic Programming
20:59:33 <calamari> only problem is the program will be limited to about 6 lines.. past that you have to type the code blind
21:04:25 <calamari> cpressey.. there's c robots.. guressing that's not what you are talking about
21:05:35 <lament> cpressey: i screwed up the CPS conversion question :(
21:07:52 <calamari> cpressey: is this it? http://www.metahuman.org/martin/pi.html
21:12:05 <calamari> not befunge, and not nes.. but it has programmable mechs
21:20:38 <calamari> http://psxmedia.ign.com/media/reviews/image/chart5.jpg
21:23:02 <cpressey> lament: that one was *^!(*^%# hard
21:24:02 <cpressey> i could easily have been confusing NES with playstation..... or..... it's possible there was an earlier incarnation
21:24:39 <cpressey> although... that doesn't look much like befunge
21:24:56 <cpressey> but he migt be using pseudocode
21:25:24 <calamari> np.. might also search for ROBOTWAR.. was for the apple2
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21:27:05 <cpressey> hm, wikipedia says that C.H. used a flowchart-like control language... so it probably is close to befunge
21:28:27 <cpressey> or, the similarity was exaggerated :)
21:31:05 <calamari> I don't own a playstation.. newest console I have is an Atari 7800
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00:23:31 <Sillyman> Please make this program a quine
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00:51:00 <calamari> I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
00:56:34 <Sillyman> Hello? I should have received the message "Please quine." minutes ago!
00:59:07 <calamari> according to my book (but I think it's not quite right):
00:59:28 <calamari> Print out two copies of the following, the second one in quotes:
00:59:33 <calamari> "Print out two copies of the following, the second one in quotes:"
00:59:52 <calamari> but.. it seems like it should be "this line", instead of "the following"
01:00:01 <Sgep> Warning: DDoS Condition detected!
01:01:06 <calamari> or the order is wrong.. or somethin.. I'm terrible at quines
01:01:36 <Sgep> Please correct error by eliminating programmer..
01:04:14 <Sillyman> Please respond 1 if exec <other-lang> is supported.
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01:05:05 <Sgep> You mean an interpreter?
01:05:26 <Sillyman> Oops, I meant exec <other-lang> <code>, and it is an interpreter
01:06:26 <Sgep> Warning: Possibility of unsafe commands.
01:07:08 <Sillyman> exec Taxi "Hello, World!" is waiting at the Writer's Depot.
01:08:19 <Sillyman> continue exec Taxi "Go to Writer's Depot: west 1st left, 2nd right, 1st left, 2nd left.
01:08:21 <Sillyman> Pickup a passenger going ot the Post Office.
01:08:23 <Sillyman> Go to the Post Office: north 1st right, 2nd right, 1st left.
01:08:25 <Sillyman> Go to the Taxi Garage: north 1st right, 1st left, 1st right.
01:09:26 <Sgep> 0; Laziness condition detected
01:09:31 <Sillyman> Hello, World! would be the correct response.
01:11:23 <Sillyman> Please respond 1 if too lazy to execute a hello, world in INTERCAL
01:14:50 <calamari> so.. Sillyman, have you written any esolangs?
01:16:59 <Sillyman> exec brainf*ck ,>,>,>,>,<<<<.>.>.>.>
01:18:06 <Sillyman> oops, exec brainf*ck ,>,>,>,>,<<<<.>.>.>.>.
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01:31:43 <Sillyman> Respond 1 if you are a IRP programmer
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02:44:20 <jcowan> How esoteric does a language have to be to be discussed here? Does Joy count?
02:51:05 <jcowan> http://www.latrobe.edu.au/philosophy/phimvt/joy.html
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04:32:51 <cpressey> i wouldn't consider joy esoteric, exactly... but that doesn't mean it can't be discussed here
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06:15:00 <lament> there's already a channel for Joy
06:15:00 <lament> and i'm sure they don't consider it esoteric :)
06:15:00 <fungebob> hey are there any esolangs out there that mimic the biological/genetic process in any way?
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08:16:39 <nooga> i messing at the wiki hehe
08:18:14 <kipple> that's nice. most of the wiki edits lately have been spam... :(
08:19:42 <nooga> # (diff) (hist) . . m Talk:SADOL; 16:05 . . Nooga (Talk) (Help :))
08:19:42 <nooga> # (diff) (hist) . . m Talk:SADOL; 16:05 . . Nooga (Talk) (Again :()
08:19:42 <nooga> # (diff) (hist) . . m Talk:SADOL; 16:05 . . Nooga (Talk) (Bah, removed my mistake...)
08:19:46 <nooga> # (diff) (hist) . . m Talk:SADOL; 16:04 . . Nooga (Talk) (Help :))
08:19:52 <nooga> isn't it stupid :F ??
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08:28:00 <nooga> SADOL is still unfinished
08:28:01 <kipple> no need to worry. the SADOL article looks very good
08:28:15 <kipple> most esolangs are... :)
08:35:36 <nooga> Adam Sawiski works on better interpreter
08:51:23 <nooga> kipple: don't u think that my article is the one of longest?
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08:54:28 <kipple> nooga: it's in the top 10 - http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Longpages
08:56:38 <nooga> and it willget a bit longer in the nearest future
08:56:52 <nooga> OMG i'm late to school!
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21:27:42 <ihope> > error "Testing" :: Int
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23:29:05 <ihope> ```s``si`k``s``si`k``siiii``s``s`kski
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07:25:50 <Gs30ng> sadol is not purely functional
07:26:11 <Gs30ng> i should design some functions of my own
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08:45:09 <lament> now that i took the languages design course
08:45:20 <lament> i guess i'm officially a language designer.
08:45:50 <Gs30ng> lament, you're not gonna tell us it means a *language*
08:45:58 <Gs30ng> like, auxillary language or something
08:46:49 <Gs30ng> i've got no idea about there are any programming language design course
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15:12:08 <nooga> he'll perform with his rock band
15:13:52 <nooga> it will be necessary
15:14:25 <nooga> bcs im going to improvise
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22:09:47 <lament> you don't need luck to improvise
22:09:51 <lament> just lots and lots of drugs
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01:10:25 <ihope> I'm writing a Smurf interpreter in Haskell.
01:25:46 <ihope> And restarting, of course.
01:30:23 <ihope> This time, I won't make code that makes me go "What the booch?"
02:04:41 <ihope> Okay, now my new parser has "instructions" for push-the-empty-string-onto-the-stack and add-a-character-to-the-end-of-the-top-string.
02:05:23 <ihope> Both are used internally; there's no way to access them "normally".
02:06:25 <ihope> There's also an error instruction.
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02:01:55 <ihope> Hmm, how about a Brainf*** program that must increment a cell a number of times equal to Steinhaus's Mega?
02:35:44 <lament> shouldn't be hard to write
02:35:51 <lament> will take a while to execute, though
02:36:47 <lament> the program is trivial to write
02:37:01 <ihope> Just write + mega times?
02:37:25 <ihope> Well, let that be the first entry in the Mega Golf Contest.
02:38:08 <lament> a null program also works fine
02:38:24 <lament> in 8-bit brainfuck, certainly
02:39:40 <lament> Mega is clearly divisible by most powers of two :)
02:40:08 <ihope> But it's smaller than almost all of them.
02:40:40 <lament> "most powers of two ever used in the context of information storage" :D
02:42:38 <ihope> Well, a nice big number is (aleph . aleph . aleph) 3.
02:43:29 <lament> i'm not familiar with that notation.
02:43:55 <ihope> aleph (aleph (aleph 3))
02:44:30 <lament> never thought of looking at aleph as a function.
02:45:52 <ihope> Everything's a function!
02:47:13 <ihope> Too many functions.
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15:56:18 <Gs30ng_> i have a question... the number of the arguments of a function is called `arity'. then is there any term for the number of the return values of a function?
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15:59:47 <Gs30ng> there are some functions which return several values
16:00:08 <Gs30ng> afaik, functions of Scheme is
16:00:19 <Gs30ng> and also in lambda calculus... untyped, maybe
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17:22:19 <nooga> when I watch recent changes on the wiki there are only spam deletion logs :D
17:24:41 <nooga> btw. BDSM2 + Cool SADOL documemtation + mod_SADOL for apache are coming soon!
17:38:08 <nooga> <body> ... <?sadol {...} ?> ... :D
17:41:53 <nooga> then i'll write the official SADOL homepage in SADOL :D
17:44:55 <nooga> http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/toplist_esoteric.html << LOOK!!!
17:46:38 <nooga> i'll better take screenshot :>
18:04:13 <nooga> BSDM - Badly Developed Sadol Machine, is, in fact, developed in the best possible way
18:04:32 <nooga> it's hella fast and it's optimizing code in many different ways
18:09:25 <jix> Gs30ng: in lambda calculus there is only one return value
18:09:40 <jix> and only one argument
18:10:36 <Gs30ng> jix: then what about ω
18:10:47 <jix> about what?
18:10:55 <Gs30ng> ω combinator in lambda calculus
18:11:26 <jix> it has one argument and one return value
18:11:40 <jix> it takes x and returns x applied to x
18:23:55 <nooga> i dont understand lambda calculus :>
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18:26:34 <fizzie> Scheme indeed has multiple return values, but I think the term comparable to "arity of x" is "number of values returned by x". Or perhaps "arity of the continuation expected by x".
18:28:57 <fizzie> At least R5RS doesn't use any special word for it.
18:30:23 <Gs30ng> since we don't need that notion in case of general languages, it seems there's no specific word for it
18:32:07 <Gs30ng> i mean, with general, a lot of
18:49:41 <jix> lisp has multiple return values to
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21:41:40 <lament> jix: i don't think there's necessarily only one argument in lambda calculus.
21:44:43 * lament attempts to check this
21:45:51 <lament> hm, wikipedia agrees with you
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14:31:06 <nooga> it compiles under linux and wndows
14:31:21 <nooga> and executable has got only 72 kb!!
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16:50:19 <Keymaker> is there any short assembler code for checking if value is odd or not?
16:55:18 <fizzie> One would hope AND would set the zero flag.
16:59:14 <fizzie> Or "andi $t0, 1 ; beq $t0, $0, oh_it_was_even" if you happen to be on a MIPSish system.
16:59:37 <fizzie> Hmm, seems I managed to insert some undesired characters there.
17:03:18 <Keymaker> i'm really lucky it's so simple task :)
17:05:13 <fizzie> Menghfeh. Went to sleep at 0700, woke up at 1000, and now been in an exam first 1300-1600 and then 1615-1900. Sleeeepy.
17:07:23 <fizzie> Well, the exam ends at 1925, have to wait for that. Then there's the food issue - perhaps even more hungry than sleepy.
17:08:01 <fizzie> BGEZAL really isn't a pleasant mnemonic for an opcode.
17:09:37 <jix> branch if greater or equal or zero or allways or less?
17:10:46 <jix> that was a question
17:10:51 <jix> that opcode would be really useless
17:13:29 <fizzie> Branch on Greater than or Equal to Zero And Link.
17:14:01 <fizzie> Like the normal branch, but saves the return address in register $31.
17:23:15 <jix> is there a BLEZAL ?
17:23:36 <fizzie> I think so. Closed the reference sheet window already.
17:23:54 <fizzie> I think ~all the branch instructions had an -AL version.
17:24:11 <jix> in arm asm you can prefix ANY instruction with condition codes
17:24:17 <jix> or postfix...
17:24:42 <fizzie> MMX instructions are still uglier.
17:25:32 <Keymaker> adn that should be easier to remember than the byte-code :D
17:25:57 <fizzie> Considering that x86 instructions can be up to 17 bytes long, the bytecode probably isn't that easy to remember either. :p
19:20:11 <Keymaker> can one modify zero flag in assembler directly, without doing any cmp or stuff?
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19:30:23 <fizzie> lahf, sahf, popf and pushf can be used to load/store the flag register, but that's not very convenient.
19:34:33 <fizzie> I guess "test al, 0" would clear the zero flag without causing anything else. (Except messing the other flags too.)
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23:19:27 <fizzie> 025*"?enilwen oN">:#._@
23:47:20 <fizzie> The language of choice for oneliners.
23:47:32 <SimonRC> you mean Unefunge, surely?
23:48:17 <SimonRC> I considered trying to write a C-to-befunge compiler once
23:50:41 <fizzie> I wrote a befunge-to-C compiler once, or a simple "output C" test backend for my never-finished befunge-to-Java-bytecode compiler. Never finished it, and it doesn't support self-modification. (The compiler was written in Java, so in the Java-bytecode version I could've invoked the compiler to handle put. Obviously can't do that with the C backend.)
23:50:58 <fizzie> And I did write a brainf*ck-to-befunge translator, but the translation is rather trivial there.
23:54:38 <SimonRC> IIRC there is a text editor for trefunge written in trefunge, I wonder where it is...
23:55:54 <fizzie> I think Bfef translates '.' to ":,", ',' to "$~", strings of '+' to "<n>+", '-' to "<n>-" (where <n> is a base-15 representation with suitable "f*"s added), and '<'/'>' to "\0p<n>+::0g" (or "<n>-").
23:56:06 <fizzie> (And loops to suitable geometry.)
00:01:05 <SimonRC> aha! http://www.jess2.net/funge/code/funged.3f
00:02:10 <fizzie> _Whaaa_. Someone's seriously using trefunge?
00:03:20 <SimonRC> I can't see the page breaks, though :-(
00:03:29 <fizzie> They're ^Ls in my editor.
00:03:37 <fizzie> In an editor it sort-of makes sense, though.
00:04:17 <fizzie> The code's organized in planes. How boring, it should be an opaque cube.
00:04:25 <fizzie> Not that I'd want to try to size-optimize Trefunge code.
00:04:51 <SimonRC> the instruction set is kinda 2d-centric, though.
00:05:33 <fizzie> Did Trefunge have an '|' in the z direction, too?
00:06:38 <SimonRC> up, switch, and down are hml
00:07:37 <SimonRC> I still can't remember the full output of y, though
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14:32:28 <jix> moin noohr
14:32:39 * jix is very busy
14:34:14 <nooga> And that's why, Gs30ng?
14:34:14 <Gs30ng> what the hell... i'm not a protagonist of a movie
14:35:13 <Gs30ng> my dad wants me to be a lawyer and i don't want to, so we've fought... holy crap this is not a joke
14:36:02 <Gs30ng> i haven't expected i would be anyone who fights by such a ridiculous reason
15:06:08 <nooga> me is still trying to write a compiler for mono CLI
15:06:28 <nooga> _I just HATE ECMA's docs_
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15:09:38 <Gs30ng> speaking ECMA, i think ECMAScript syntax sucks
15:09:50 <Gs30ng> even worse than brainfuck syntax!!!
15:10:24 <nooga> and to make it even worse MonoDevelop doesn't want to work!
15:10:37 <nooga> JavaScript is ECMA Compliant
15:10:49 <nooga> and JavaScript is almost like PHP
15:11:03 <jix> all those languages suck ;)
15:11:22 <Keymaker> (is there any simple way to remove a character from the string in python?)
15:11:24 <nooga> i hate the format of their specificaions
15:11:35 <Gs30ng> Haskell, Python, and Ruby was good ones for me
15:11:47 <nooga> i can't see anything important in them
15:11:56 <nooga> in those specifications
15:12:00 <Keymaker> (i might have asked this before, but couldn't find any code in store)
15:12:05 <Gs30ng> Keymaker, several ways there...
15:12:10 <nooga> hm, dont know Haskell
15:12:27 <nooga> i'd rather use Perl than Python
15:12:32 <jix> Keymaker: "test".replace("t","")
15:12:57 <Keymaker> thanks, but any way to replace for example the fifth character?
15:13:53 <jix> no impossible
15:13:59 <Gs30ng> strName[:4] + 'a' + strName[5:]
15:14:07 <jix> python developers say that that is a feature that shouldn't be used ;)
15:14:18 <jix> in other words: i have no idea
15:14:21 <Gs30ng> then fifth char will be then 'a'
15:14:22 <nooga> i've got my MONO fuc*ed up
15:14:36 <jix> nooga: congratulations
15:15:02 <nooga> i want to know ruby!
15:15:15 <jix> tryruby.hobix.com
15:15:26 <Gs30ng> ruby resembles python, or vice versa
15:15:37 <jix> they copy each other
15:15:48 <jix> but use different philosophies
15:16:00 <Gs30ng> afaik perl code is often considered incomprehensible
15:16:14 <nooga> perl is almost eso
15:16:30 <jix> python uses "There is only ONE way to do something" ruby uses the principle of the least surprise
15:16:39 <nooga> but really easy when you don't try to hack
15:16:54 <jix> Gs30ng: no?!
15:17:04 <Gs30ng> hmm... that is almost right
15:17:12 <Gs30ng> i haven't thought in that way but it is true
15:17:22 <jix> in ruby you can do [1,2,3,4].map or [1,2,3,4].collect ... what ever you are used to
15:17:47 <jix> and python developers try to reduce the number of ways to do something... they say it's confusing to have 2 ways...
15:17:55 <Gs30ng> and Haskell is far away
15:18:01 <jix> haskell is cool ;)
15:21:52 <nooga> it's f**d up even after reinstall!!!!
15:25:41 <nooga> pretty neat looks ruby
15:28:17 <Gs30ng> fac n | n > 0 = n * fac (n-1)
15:28:48 <Gs30ng> fibs = 0 : 1 : [ a+b | a <- fibs | b <- tail fibs ]
15:29:33 <nooga> i cna't understand anything :D
15:29:45 <nooga> it's bubble and squeak to me
15:31:07 <Gs30ng> i think factorial one is easy
15:32:42 <Gs30ng> def fac(x): if x == 0: return 1
15:32:51 <Gs30ng> that is mathematical term
15:33:04 <Gs30ng> you know f(x) = 2x + 3
15:33:39 <Gs30ng> fac(0)=1 is uncurried expression
15:33:52 <Gs30ng> sorry, i mean, uncurried way
15:34:07 <Gs30ng> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currying
15:36:25 <Gs30ng> difference between "+ 1 2" and "+(1, 2)"
15:36:48 <Gs30ng> haskell prefers the former(and you can use latter if you want)
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16:22:21 <nooga> how to define a subroutine/function in ruby?
16:23:43 <nooga> how will you rewrite this: dupa(x){ i=A[x-1]; while i>0 if A[i+1]==A[x] { x; break; } else i=A[i]; }; in ruby
16:28:57 <nooga> if A[i+1]==A[x] {x; break}
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17:25:36 <jix> def dupa x;while i>0;return x if A[i+1]==A[x];i = A[i];end;end
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18:25:34 <graue> I got a book on compilers so I am learning how to make them and stuff
18:27:57 <calamari> writing compilers is a lot of fun
18:29:56 <graue> I wish there were more C compilers out there
18:30:20 <jix> there are many c compilers
18:30:41 <lament> who needs c compilers when we have brainfuck compilers?
18:32:31 <calamari> I'd like to see a lang like Java where the parts that cuase it to be slow are cut out, so it can be compiled natively.. is that reflection?
18:33:06 <lament> i would guess it's late binding
18:33:37 <lament> actually i dunno what makes java THAT slow
18:33:50 <lament> c++ uses late binding all the time
18:34:10 <lament> certainly not compared to java :)
18:34:33 <lament> I guess having other niceties like bounds checking for arrays slows it down as well
18:34:52 <graue> calamari, have you looked at D?
18:34:55 <jix> java isn't THAT slow
18:35:08 <jix> it IS possible to run very fast code on the java vm
18:36:40 <calamari> I think it also hurts that the library code is interpreted
18:36:47 <graue> calamari: it looks like a fun C++/C#/Java style language with better speed and stuff
18:37:46 <jix> there is a gnu d compiler
18:38:00 <graue> the frontend is opensource and a gcc frontend has been made for it
18:38:00 <jix> a gcc frontend
18:38:10 <graue> and the library is all bsdishly licensed
18:38:21 <jix> and there is an alternative (more OOish) library
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20:58:05 <ihope> from(NickServ) You cannot GHOST yourself.
20:59:01 <ihope> Nor can one RECOVER oneself...
20:59:35 <ihope> Hmm... the command is /attach freenode, not /attack freenode.
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21:02:21 <jix> is anyone here able to speak french?
21:02:32 <ihope> Two or three words of it.
21:03:44 <jix> i'm able to say that i'm not able to speak french in french
21:03:59 <jix> that isn't much for 4 years french in school but that has to be enough
21:04:10 <ihope> I can say I'm not able to speak Spanish in Spanish...
21:04:50 <ihope> "No habla espannol", more-or-less.
21:04:59 <jix> Je ne parle pas français
21:05:33 <jix> french people don't say my name is Foo or i am Bar... they say i'm calling myself Baz ^^
21:05:58 <ihope> Somewhat the same in Spanish: I call myself Foo.
21:06:06 <jix> je m'appelle Baz
21:06:34 <jix> i don't know wether that is i call myself or i'm calling myself... ^^
21:07:11 <ihope> Hmm, that should have been "boo".
21:09:51 <ihope> Wait... is "boo" or "qux" after "baz"?
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21:10:37 <ihope> Foo, bar, baz, boo, qux, quux, quuux...
21:16:39 <jix> i like using hello, world, test, testt, testtt... too ;)
21:16:57 <jix> or e q k j i a b.....
21:17:01 <jix> (in that order!)
21:17:10 <ihope> Foo, bar, baz, boo, hello, world, xyzzy, plugh, qux...
21:18:17 <ihope> Let's let qux = 3^3, quux = 3^^3, quuux = 3^^^3, etc...
21:18:30 <SimonRC> http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/M/metasyntactic-variable.html
21:18:55 <ihope> Then adding more q's and x's would let us have a nice syntax for Graham's number.
21:19:07 <SimonRC> ihope: then qquxx = 3^^^^^^(3^^^^^^3)? etc up to graham's number?
21:19:56 <ihope> qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqquuuuxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx would be Graham's number.
21:21:57 <ihope> The q's and x's would represent the number of times we do the Graham-ey iteration.
21:22:49 <ihope> I don't think so. Last time I checked, it started with the number 4.
21:24:51 <ihope> Well... anybody care to expand 3^^^^3?
21:25:39 <ihope> 3^^^3^^^3, 3^^^3^^3^^3, 3^^^3^^3^3^3, 3^^^3^^3^3*3*3, 3^^^3^^3^3*3+3+3...
21:26:23 <ihope> 3^^^3^^3^3*3+3+3, 3^^^3^^3^3*3+6, 3^^^3^^3^3*9...
21:26:53 <SimonRC> ihope: that's some odd precedence
21:27:25 <ihope> Strict right-associativity.
21:28:27 <ihope> Now, what if the number of Grahamity steps was itself equal to Graham's number?
21:28:40 <SimonRC> ihope: you'd get a useless number
21:29:03 <SimonRC> anyway, Graham's number probably doesn't answer the question it was meant to answer.
21:29:11 <ihope> Almost certainly not.
21:29:15 <SimonRC> Th actuall answer is probably 6.
21:29:25 <ihope> I think it was proven to be at least 11.
21:29:49 <SimonRC> I can;t remember the question.
21:30:03 <ineiros> I say it's a decent upper limit, for about anything. :P
21:30:53 <ineiros> "--must be at least 11 and provides experimental evidence suggesting that it is actually even larger." from Mathworld.
21:36:13 <ihope> xyzzy, wxyzzyx, vqxyzzyxq...
21:37:01 <ihope> Continuing the sequence.
21:38:01 <ihope> Because I'm alphabetically challenged ;-)
21:38:06 <ihope> 3^^^3^^3^3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3
21:39:01 <ihope> 3^^^3^^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3
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21:40:43 <ihope> Calculating Graham's number.
21:49:35 <ihope> Seven cubed is 49*7...
21:50:40 <ihope> But Google says 7^3 = 343.
21:52:19 <ihope> 3^^^3^^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^19683*19683*19683
21:52:24 <ihope> Graham's number seems big now.
22:14:36 <ihope> Can anyone tell me the significance of the number 12648430?
22:19:26 <ihope> Translate it into hexadecimal.
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00:07:36 <Gs30ng> i'm not gonna say something which can hurt you who believe in noodly apprendage of Flying Spaghetti Monster
00:08:52 <Gs30ng> also i myself am not a christian... so nothing to celebrate. ah, flat.
00:14:54 <SimonRC> Well, I'm a Brit, so I celebrate Christmas.
00:32:03 <Gs30ng> well, many european esoteric programmers
00:32:26 <Arrogant> I'm an Atheist and I celebrate Christmas.
00:33:03 <SimonRC> Gs30ng: I am only already on holiday because I go to university
00:35:53 <Gs30ng> ok, as some of you may know, i'm preparing a new esoteric language, and i'm feeling so helpless since i've planned to make this from at least a month ago, and never wrote a single letter of the specification
00:36:42 <Gs30ng> it took a month to implement a humble, dirty, inefficient, and very limited interpreter of it
00:59:31 <SimonRC> what's the language like, then?
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03:30:46 <Sgep> Night all (my night).
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11:25:54 * nooga has wrote interactive sadol interpreter in sadol
11:26:16 <nooga> here it is: @1(5!"2> :r`;3!"2=>!r!"1
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16:14:08 <ihope> I'm working on CPFL and ECPFL.
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16:14:37 <ihope> CPFL will be everything Lazy K wasn't, and ECPFL will be everything Lazy K was, plus CPFL.
16:15:19 <ihope> Hmm, no. CPFL is what it was; ECPFL is what it wasn't.
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17:57:02 <nooga> another functional language
18:17:25 <nooga> YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
18:17:37 <nooga> http://regedit.risp.pl/BDSM/
18:17:58 <nooga> http://regedit.risp.pl/BDSM/BDSM2.html
18:18:06 <nooga> better than MSDN :D
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18:20:44 <ihope_> Ahem. Yes, another functional language.
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18:21:18 <nooga> say something about the new BDSM and documentation
18:21:24 <nooga> http://regedit.risp.pl/BDSM/BDSM2.html
18:22:05 <ihope> But it's badly developed, isn't it?
18:22:35 <nooga> this is only the name :>
18:22:49 <nooga> actually it's developed in the best way it can be
18:22:58 <nooga> Performance optimization - copy-on-write on strings and lists.
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18:23:44 <nooga> Cross-platform, written in C++
18:23:51 <ihope> ...I won't repeat that question, for obvious reasons.
18:24:05 <nooga> and VS 2003 under win ;p
18:24:16 <nooga> it was developed under windows
18:24:26 <ihope> Hmm, gcc. /me looks up
18:24:54 <nooga> i.e. (2 1 x is optimized to: x
18:25:17 <nooga> BDSM2 is lightning fast -.-'
18:25:27 <nooga> much faster than CLISP
18:25:34 <ihope> Hmm, it has optimizations...
18:25:58 <nooga> http://regedit.risp.pl/BDSM/BDSM2.html << look @ the doc
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18:27:11 <ihope> I don't care so much about the compiler as the compiler of the compiler of the compiler.
18:27:43 <ihope> So... this is BDSM, compiled with GCC... wait a minute...
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18:28:04 <ihope> Okay. The compiler of the compiler.
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18:29:01 <ihope> Ah. I see you've been underscored, ZeroOne_.
18:36:44 <ihope> Ye Olde K-Trash...
18:42:01 <SimonRC> there is a problem with sadol
18:43:11 <ihope> SLOBOL is usable as well, but that's hardly a problem.
18:46:45 <SimonRC> Lazy K appears to be basically the same as Unlambda.
18:47:03 <ihope> *cough cough gack*
18:47:50 <ihope> Every programming language is basically the same as every other programming language, I suppose.
18:51:48 <calamari> are there any cpus without a clock?
18:52:25 <calamari> might be different to program for that
18:52:25 <ihope> I think I accidentally designed one once.
18:53:45 <ihope> So equality of booleans is essentially NXOR, or NEOR if you like it that way...
18:55:55 <ihope> XOR is more complicated.
19:00:05 <Gs30ng> i loved this when i was coding with this
19:00:12 <calamari> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/XNOR.html
19:00:20 <Gs30ng> and now i detest this while implementing it
19:03:42 <Gs30ng> i hate that Global Notice
19:03:54 <Gs30ng> since that is not Global at all
19:04:05 <Gs30ng> wait... i feel like i've already mentioned this
19:04:11 <Gs30ng> anyway it is no evening here
19:04:17 <ihope> Well, now I know it wasn't because I asked "What compiler?".
19:05:15 <fizzie> If you write A -> B as "(not A) or (A and B)", and then use the Zadeh operator versions (one way to do fuzzy logic), you get "max(1 - A, min(A, B))", so "0.5 -> 0.5" would evaluate to 0.5.
19:06:01 <ihope> But I don't want to use Zadeh.
19:07:30 <ihope> 2 or 2 is 1, not 2 :-)
19:08:21 <SimonRC> Hmm, SADOL needs synatactic closure.
19:08:44 <SimonRC> "Hmm, SADOL needs lexical closure."
19:09:04 <SimonRC> And a function type to go with it.
19:09:57 <SimonRC> this means you could write the equivalent of the scheme: (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))
19:12:54 <ihope> (lambda (x) lambda)...
19:13:12 <SimonRC> alas, lambda is a special form
19:13:14 <ihope> Stuff like that's why I like Haskell.
19:13:29 <SimonRC> though Arc (non-eso) has first-class macros.
19:13:47 <SimonRC> I have just realised that you can't give it first-class functions without f*cking up the syntax.
19:14:42 <SimonRC> if a is a function, then that takes two numbers and returns 1 + their product
19:14:55 <SimonRC> if a is a number, that adds one to it
19:15:34 <SimonRC> this means an expression's precedence and association can *change* dynamically at run time :-(
19:18:45 <ihope> Add one more function for application.
19:19:17 <ihope> UnlambdaUnlambda+1a
19:27:26 <ihope> parse error on input `.'
19:34:24 <Gs30ng> i've just watched star wars clone wars
19:34:32 <Gs30ng> and there was something sounds like your nickname
19:35:38 <Gs30ng> i'm not sure what it exactly was, the name of a tribe or something
19:35:38 <ihope> I thought calamari was a type of food item.
19:36:14 <calamari> I originally got the nickname "calamari" from the game X-Wing
19:36:36 <Gs30ng> aha... now it totally makes sense
19:36:42 <calamari> I only found out later it meant squid in other languages
19:36:58 <ihope> Hence the kidsquid stuff?
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22:00:50 <calamari> just had to remove a bunch of junk from the qemu wiki I'm hosting
22:01:21 <calamari> deicded to modify the code.. added another field so they have to enter "qemu" to edit a page
22:01:34 <calamari> wonder if something like that would help esolang
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00:26:32 * SimonRC reads about Magenta: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Station/2266/tarpit/magentaaarm.html http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Station/2266/tarpit/magsupp.html
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08:08:52 <saudade> i wrote a lambda calculus interpreter
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10:08:36 <pgimeno> I apologize for these nick changes; you sometimes forget that nick changes are global
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21:17:12 <ihope> "It's self-explanatory! Here, let me show you..."
21:18:15 <ihope> Now, should I change my password to `/0|-|0|-|0/\/\3|-|34|z+13$?
21:25:58 <ihope> Or how about (0/\/\|*
21:26:28 <ihope> (0/\/\|*|_1(4+3|)|*4$$\/\/0|z|)?
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21:29:17 <nooga> http://rafb.net/paste/results/pkHc7342.html
21:29:36 <nooga> i extended basic types in Ruby
21:29:51 <nooga> with to_SADOL method :F
21:30:38 <ihope> Well, I calculated ack(4,2) in Haskell.
21:32:13 <nooga> with that sick book
21:32:26 <nooga> but very funny though
21:33:37 <ihope> Another spelling...
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21:40:19 <ihope> This is sort of funny. Haskell is computing ack(4,2)... over and over again.
21:40:32 <ihope> Or GHCi, I should say.
21:51:42 <lament> wee my lambda calculus interpreter is so cool
22:06:32 <lament> gah and it's horribly designed and written in Python and i hate myself for writing it!!!
22:07:00 <lament> this _really_ should be written in Scheme
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22:28:35 <lament> but it's getting better :)
22:35:53 <lament> ['false', 'zero'] \x.\y.y
22:42:13 <lament> how do i make it reduce this:
22:42:14 <lament> \f.(\x.(\f.(\x.(f x)) \g.(\h.(h g f)) \u.x \u.u))
22:43:03 <lament> Not possible in the general case, of course, but surely there're useful partial solutions
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22:54:37 <lament> stupid laziness, causing horrible problems
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23:10:42 <SimonRC> lament: let us see the code.
23:12:42 <lament> but at least now it can do this:
23:13:17 <lament> of course, this means it is not lazy anymore
23:14:38 <lament> \a.(\x.(x x) \x.(x x)) should break it
23:15:02 <lament> and it wouldn't even break the thoroughly non-lazy Scheme
23:17:17 <lament> which means i'm doing something horribly wrong :(
23:17:39 <SimonRC> take a buther's at ghc, if you dare
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00:15:26 <ihope_> I like this underscore. I don't think I'll get rid of it.
00:17:01 <graue> nobody really cares
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01:54:56 <SimonRC> ihope: well *that* didn't last long, did it?
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03:45:07 <BigZaphod> latest pointless accomplishment: http://www.bigzaphod.org/taxi/99.txt
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11:37:58 * nooga has got rails and everything
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11:58:51 <Keymaker> 99 bottles of beer in that taxi language
11:59:16 <Keymaker> http://www.bigzaphod.org/taxi/99.txt
11:59:52 <nooga> wait till you see 99b in obfuscated sadol :D
12:01:12 <jix> is there a good tutorial on linear regression?
12:23:54 <nooga> i've got RadRails and everything!!!
13:12:16 <nooga> it can't connect witch MySQL
13:13:24 <nooga> Errno::ENOENT: No such file or directory - /tmp/mysql.sock
13:13:53 <jix> you have to specify your mysql socket
13:15:31 <nooga> i saw some presentations of rails
13:15:41 <nooga> it is ssooooooo cool
13:17:21 <nooga> i just need to install ruby-mysql
13:17:39 <nooga> omigosh moigosh omigosh aaaa
13:18:15 <nooga> i wonder how to make a file upload progress bar with rails and ajax
13:18:33 <nooga> which will show real progress
13:21:41 <nooga> 1 tests, 1 assertions, 0 failures, 0 errors
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14:50:32 <Keymaker> well, no time to stay :) just came to say that..
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22:32:51 <jix> np: Finntroll - Trollhammaren [ Nattfdd ]
22:36:58 <cpressey> Krypton - Let's Blow up the Tow Truck
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06:03:33 <Sgep> Night all. *Sgeo wrenches himself away from the computer
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10:55:56 <nooga> http://phpfi.com/93222 << look what i've done :D
10:56:45 <lament> what kind of language is it? stack-based?
10:58:59 <nooga> it's my SADOL, functional
10:59:14 <nooga> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/SADOL
11:00:36 <nooga> http://www.regedit.risp.pl/BDSM/BDSM2.html very cool documentation
11:06:27 <nooga> Adam doesn't know english very well
11:13:04 <nooga> 99bottles are obfuscated
11:13:21 <nooga> SADOL can express strings like this "5idiot
11:23:32 <nooga> you know.. i like one sentence from Adam's doc
11:23:35 <nooga> Nooga reached something really amazing - he designed language that is obfuscated and crazy as esoteric, but at the same time powerful and convenient to write even nontrivial programs.
11:40:48 <lament> and it was a very early esolang
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17:38:21 <ihope> Does anybody live in the general vicinity of Microsoft headquarters?
17:46:28 <fizzie> Depends on your definition of "vicinity". It's a bit over 7500 kilometres from my location, so probably not /me.
18:07:24 <ihope> If you're willing to travel there, you're close enough.
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23:39:24 <ihope> Q: If you see Bill Gates riding a bike while you're driving, should you swerve to hit him?
23:39:34 <ihope> A: No, because it's probably your bike.
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00:36:05 <Gs30ng> Remote closed ihope's connection because he divulged the very secret
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03:31:48 <Sgep> BRB; restarting into Ion3
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12:55:25 <Keymaker> anyone know where i could find the "foobar and foobaz and barbaz, oh my!" interpreter?
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17:20:46 <Sgep> BRB; switching to kwin
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20:51:51 <lament> lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala
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19:53:01 <calamari> hoping our baby stays in a few more weeks, if possible.. to be full term
19:54:50 <cpressey> wow. yes. congratulations, by the way (i didn't know!)
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20:43:16 * Sgep remembers seeing ihope from someplace not related to Esolangs
21:22:52 <ihope> "Infinite monkey theorem".
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21:44:12 <Sgep> Going to Windows to update a program.
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21:53:10 <lament> infinite monkey theorem?
21:53:51 <ihope> It pretty much says that the output from a random number generator contains every string.
21:54:49 <lament> it would be much cooler if it says "there exists an infinite monkey"
21:58:39 <ihope> data Monkey = Monkey Monkey
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22:08:36 <lament> Apparently the next Intel processor line will be called Yonah
22:08:57 <lament> "Yonah" sounds pretty ridiculous and rather dirty in Russian
22:10:29 <lament> but you can google for yonah
22:36:40 <ihope> quine = do {putStr source; (putStr . show) source} where source = "quine = do {putStr source; (putStr . show) source} where source = "
22:50:31 <jix> i have a mathematica quine
00:08:46 <jix> i have a super polyglot quine
00:08:54 <jix> it works in: mathematica, cat and HQ9+
00:26:43 <ihope> A have a Malbolge quine.
00:26:47 <ihope> I just don't know what it is.
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23:38:01 <Keymaker> hmm, this revaver programming language seems interesting
23:38:08 <Keymaker> pity there isn't much info around
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23:44:09 <Keymaker> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RevaverLanguage
23:44:20 <Keymaker> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Revaver
23:46:14 <Sgep> There is an interpreter according to c2
23:47:24 <Keymaker> i guess esowiki needs some updating now..
23:55:36 <Sgep> Bye for now all
00:28:04 <jix> zzo38s server is back => many articles can be updated now?
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21:06:45 <jix> moin calamari
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23:36:21 <graue> I just learned that the word "esoteric" is pronounced with an "S" sound at the beginning
23:36:29 <graue> I had always been pronouncing it with an "E" sound at the beginning
23:37:53 <graue> naturally, this bit of insight was deeply upsetting to me, so I've entered this IRC channel, where I can receive the support and encouragement of my peers, as I adjust to pronouncing "esoteric" correctly
23:44:03 <lament> where would an "S" come from?
23:47:30 <graue> isn't that the "correct" pronunciation?
23:47:35 <lament> looks like the first sound is 'e'
23:47:48 <graue> that's what I thought
23:48:24 <graue> so it's like you're saying "S" (the letter) at the beginning
23:48:38 <graue> that came as a surprise to me
23:51:59 <jix> i pronounce it eh so terr ick
23:52:05 <jix> but that might be wrong
23:54:12 <jix> argh i'm wrong: http://cougar.eb.com/sound/e/esoter01.wav
23:54:17 <lament> i pronounce it IA, SHUB-NIGGURATH!!!
23:54:53 <jix> i'm writing programs in arm asm atm... esolang dev is a good training for asm dev ;)
23:56:20 <jix> argh i need 1 additional register
23:56:34 <graue> get out your tools and weld one onto the CPU
23:56:36 <graue> how hard can it be?
23:57:27 <jix> i can't use pc that's the current adress.. i need fp to restore the calling frame.. ip is allready in use sp... hmm maybe i can use sp
23:58:44 <jix> yeah i can restore sp using fp
00:06:47 <cpressey> and here i was pronouncing it "ay" so terr ick
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04:45:05 <lament> cpressey: did you kick ass in 311?
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10:58:23 <sp3tt> I'm implementing brainfuck.
10:59:47 <sp3tt> Though I have no idea how to implement loops.
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11:02:30 <sp3tt> Because just skipping to the next ] could cause bad stuff.
11:03:18 <sp3tt> +++[>++[-]] Skipping to the next right bracket would literally result in a brainfuck.
11:04:09 <Gs30ng> ah, corresponding parenthesis... that's a little bit tricky, right
11:05:01 <sp3tt> I don't believe I have access to regexps.
11:05:02 <J|x> if moving backwords use a counter
11:05:20 <J|x> increase it for every ] and decrease it for every [
11:05:27 <J|x> if it goes == 0 youre done
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11:05:59 <jix> and regexps won't help as matching parentheses is a context free problem not a regular one
11:06:21 <sp3tt> I'm moving forwards in the text... I'd paste the program, but the usb drivers are messing with me.
11:06:31 <jix> (even though some regexp engines support some context free grammers)
11:06:54 <jix> if you're moving forwards do the same thing but swap [ and ]
11:07:56 <jix> what is your target system (calculator)?
11:07:58 <sp3tt> I have the text in a variable X, stack M, stack pointer P, program pointer c and the current token l.
11:08:38 <jix> if it was a ti-92(+)/89/v200 i'd recommand converting the bf code into basic code
11:08:51 <sp3tt> I don't want a TI-calculator.
11:09:15 <sp3tt> I've gotten so used to RPN I can't use algebraic.
11:17:40 <sp3tt> Are the usb drivers messing with you too?
11:18:55 <calamari> I've implemented bf on the hp48gx, in case youre interested in seeing it
11:19:53 <sp3tt> Ah... I looked at some interpreter, now I understand how to do it.
11:20:02 <calamari> http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/impl/interp/calculator/hp48bf.txt
11:20:47 <calamari> what I'd like to see is bf for the hp's cpu assembly language
11:21:00 <calamari> that would be great.. 64 bit power! :)
11:21:36 <lindi-> calamari: they still use saturn cpu?
11:21:45 <calamari> my crappy code is userrpl.. so it's slow
11:22:04 <calamari> lindi-: dunno .. but the processor in mine hasn't changed =D
11:22:31 <lindi-> calamari: my hp71 used saturn too
11:23:04 <sp3tt> When I hit a [, I set a var p1 to the current position, and a var p2 to 1. Then I continue looping through the text (in a separate loop), increasing p2 each time I hit a [. When I hit ] I decrease it. When p2 is 1, I store the new position in the text p3 and copy the substring p1-p3 and call the interpreter function on it.
11:23:09 <sp3tt> That should do it.
11:24:29 <sp3tt> Programming with rpn <3
11:25:32 <calamari> too bad they never made linux for the hp48 :) hehe
11:26:21 <lindi-> calamari: i didn't have any assembler tools for hp71 so i wrote a very ugly assembler in basic, http://iki.fi/lindi/HP71AS reads assembler source and creates an executable
11:26:25 <sp3tt> I doubt it would boot, not enough memory.
11:26:47 <calamari> sp3tt: I'm just being silly :) the kernel wouldn't even fit in ram :)
11:27:11 <lindi-> not to mention hp71 which had 16K of ram
11:27:29 <lindi-> hp48 has at least 256K?
11:27:40 <sp3tt> Mine has 128 iirc.
11:30:51 <calamari> hmm.. how much memory does my slide rule have?
11:31:56 <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule
11:32:24 <sp3tt> I'd say two bytes or so.
11:34:03 <calamari> well, there are infinitely many positions of the hairline and slide.. so I dunno :)
11:34:04 <lindi-> ah, i only know the finnish term :)
11:36:36 <calamari> cool.. this dictionary had it http://efe.scape.net/index.php
11:38:42 <sp3tt> if l == "[" then{ STO('b',1); c++; DO{ STO('l',SUB(X,c,c)); IF l=="[" then { b++ } IF l=="]" then{b--} }until b==0}
11:38:50 <sp3tt> That oughta do it...
11:39:03 <calamari> what does that say? supposed to be "esoteric" :)
11:39:13 <lindi-> more like "one that puts the customer at the mercy of a vendor"
11:39:35 * sp3tt knows one finnish word.
11:40:32 <calamari> acording to this one salassa=secretly
11:40:57 <calamari> so at least that word seems to make sense
11:44:51 <calamari> okay.. now to see what damage the reinstall caused
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11:46:02 <sp3tt> Note to self: Increase counter when doing loops.
11:47:08 <sp3tt> :D It works... now to create a loop to execute it... recursion is the shit.
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11:49:27 <sp3tt> The only problem is... will the array change...
12:22:59 <sp3tt> Ok, now I've changed the program to take the array as an argument...
12:26:36 <sp3tt> It'll have to return an array {output,array}...
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15:06:56 <sp3tt> GAH! This is fucking killing me.
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19:42:07 <cpressey> by the way, here's a scary thought:
19:42:29 <cpressey> twenty years ago: the first Amiga
19:59:09 <sp3tt> I finished writing my interpreter.
19:59:24 <sp3tt> Brainfuck on the HP 48gII: http://sp3tt.i.ext.as/bf.txt
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07:56:29 <nooga> http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-sadol-989.html
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