00:42:31 <Razor-X> So does anyone want to write a Slashdot article to shamelessly advertise the contest?
00:42:42 <Razor-X> !ihope_repeater How about you?
00:43:21 <Eidolos> Razor-X: If you want to write it, I'll submit it with my account.
00:44:35 <Razor-X> On a seperate note: After 1.5 hours of compilation, Octave failed to compile.
00:45:19 <GregorR-W> I give it a 10% chance of getting in.
00:45:29 <Razor-X> I think I'll be a Slackware-wuss and just use a binary.
00:45:41 <Razor-X> Come on! It's useless and stupid, of course it'll get into Slashdot!
00:46:03 <Eidolos> Whitespace made the Slashdot frontpage (admittedly it was on April 1st.. :))
00:46:34 <ihope> We'll just have to delay it until April 1st, then.
00:47:03 -!- nooga has joined.
00:49:13 <EgoBot> 80 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>+><<<<-]>++.>-.<---------.+++++.>+.<+.++++++++. [617]
00:49:51 <GregorR-W> Isn't too bad? That's actually quite good IMHO
00:50:02 <Razor-X> Good. It won't look too embarassing :D.
00:50:11 <nooga> can i get the src of bftextgen?
00:50:34 <Eidolos> Hmm. Is it small enough to paste here?
00:50:39 <ihope> nooga: textgen.java
00:50:46 <Razor-X> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
00:50:56 <Razor-X> My dear Microsoft Hating Gods!
00:51:07 * Razor-X prays to the Google for forgiveness.
00:51:21 <ihope> Which of your gods hate Google, and which do not?
00:51:28 <ihope> s/Google/Microsoft/
00:51:35 <GregorR-W> nooga: It's in the files archive under brainfuck/util (or something thereabouts)
00:51:39 <Razor-X> I am The Stereotypical Geek.
00:51:44 <GregorR-W> nooga: Also, it's in the files archive in the EgoBot source of course.
00:51:59 <nooga> i'm working at SADOL'a '(' function (calling external funcs) and BDSM2++ and LibSADOL and mod_SADOL for Apache2
00:52:00 <Razor-X> I have gods that Hate Microsoft, and Love Google and Firefox and all other things Geek Holy.
00:52:45 <ihope> That was 21 messages I got in a row from EgoBot.
00:52:53 <Razor-X> This year marks the first year of the 2006 Esolang Competition!!! If you're not familiar with Esolangs, they're programming languages with specific constraints. Many of them are turing tarpits, meaning they are Turing complete but only contain a minimum amount of operations (BrainFuck). Others use weird logic, operators the like you've never seen (or want to see), and line noise almost as bad as Perl (INTERCAL). Then again, some of them
00:52:53 <Razor-X> are just pure Hell (Malbolge). So ye fellow Slashdotters, come one and come all to test ye programming skills among the best of the best! You never know what you'll find over the (BrainFuck ahead) ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>+><<<<-]>++.>-.<---------.+++++.>+.<+.++++++++. Join at http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest
00:53:21 <Razor-X> *annual Esolang Competition!!!
00:53:52 * Eidolos isn't so sure he likes the triple exclamation points.
00:54:00 <Razor-X> It's meant to appeal to Slashdotters.
00:54:06 <Eidolos> I also wouldn't include the "(BrainFuck ahead)"
00:54:14 <Razor-X> Yeah, I wasn't sure about that.
00:54:15 <nooga> only mad ppl put five exclamation marks
00:54:20 <Razor-X> I thought they used heavy doses of multiple punctuation?
00:54:26 <Razor-X> I never do myself, but yeah.
00:54:37 <Razor-X> I guess I underestimated the Slashdot community :P.
00:54:58 <Razor-X> Ok then, take out the (BrainFuck ahead) and the two extra `!'s.
00:55:18 <GregorR-W> I'm going to drop it to an 8% chance.
00:55:32 <Razor-X> What corrections would you like to see, GregorR-W?
00:55:41 <EgoBot> Traceback (most recent call last):
00:55:48 <Eidolos> Also what's with the Olde Englishe?
00:55:56 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: None, it just won't get in.
00:56:15 <Razor-X> I knew I should've been listening to the RahXephon OP while writing it :(.
00:56:38 <Eidolos> And "You never know what you'll find over the <rainbow>"? x_x
00:57:16 <Razor-X> Does rainbow sound too unmanly for you?!?!
00:57:35 <Razor-X> Maybe there's a reason behind that!
00:57:41 <Eidolos> Also.. shouldn't you decide on a start date before posting on /.?
00:57:57 <Razor-X> Eidolos: I need 5-10 committee members.
00:57:58 <nooga> sadol isn't so evil
00:58:11 <Razor-X> Although I'm just hoping for 5 now.
00:58:17 <nooga> sadol is practically one of most comfortable esolangs
00:59:03 <Razor-X> Shh EgoBot, that's what I use in my BF interpreter in INTERCAL.
01:00:12 <Razor-X> I think it should be plainly obvious what that line does.
01:00:55 <Razor-X> See. I knew you'd understand.
01:01:06 <GregorR-W> !repeater Tell Razor-X what to do.
01:01:23 <Razor-X> !repeater Egobot shouldn't....
01:01:25 <EgoBot> Tell Razor-X what to do.
01:03:19 <ihope> !repeater This Repeater Thing Is
01:03:34 <EgoBot> This Repeater Thing Is
01:03:47 <Razor-X> !repeater Among other things, Egobot is
01:04:09 <GregorR-W> !repeater Many things are made out of wood.
01:04:12 <EgoBot> Among other things, Egobot is
01:04:54 <EgoBot> Many things are made out of wood.
01:05:05 <ihope> !repeater I can't read this:
01:05:31 <nooga> !sadol (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:05:34 <EgoBot> (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:05:43 <nooga> the most beautiful quine
01:06:02 <Razor-X> (3:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:06:08 <Razor-X> !sadol (3:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:06:09 <EgoBot> (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:06:16 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
01:06:20 <EgoBot> {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
01:06:27 <Razor-X> Too... many... disfigured... smilies.....
01:06:41 <Razor-X> Methinks.... someone has been.... having too much fun.... with smilies.....
01:06:46 <ihope> !sadol {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
01:06:48 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unsupported character: ')' (index: 135, row: 1, col: 136)
01:06:57 <ihope> !glass (3:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:07:35 <EgoBot> 104 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>----.>++++++..>-----.>++.<<---.+++++++++.>-.++++++++.>+. [140]
01:07:39 <nooga> but nobody of you has a REVERSED QUINE!
01:08:01 <nooga> !sadol (7:C",228!R!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(:R",228(7:C",2289"!R!:R",2287"!C!RR!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(
01:08:04 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 98, row: 1, col: 99)
01:08:06 <Razor-X> !glass You're a really buggy bot, OK?
01:08:09 <nooga> !sadol (7:C",228!R!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(:R",228(7:C",2289"!R!:R",2287"!C!RR!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(
01:08:12 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 98, row: 1, col: 99)
01:08:23 <Razor-X> Yay. Such an obedient bot.
01:08:31 <Eidolos> The <a href="http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest">2006 Esolang Competition</a> is about to begin! If you're not familiar with Esolangs, they're esoteric programming languages created with a specific set of constraints yet still powerful enough to be useful -- most are even Turing complete. Some minimalize the instruction set (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck">brainfuck</a>), some aim to break a commonl
01:08:31 <Eidolos> y-held idea about coding (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befunge">Befunge</a>), some have line noise even worse than Perl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercal), and some are just pure Hell (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge">Malbolge</a>). The goal is to write a program in an esoteric language that completes some currently unannounced task. +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>----.>++++++..>-----.
01:08:32 <Eidolos> >++.<<---.+++++++++.>-.++++++++.>+.
01:09:01 <Razor-X> I said noise *almost as bad as Perl*.
01:09:22 <Eidolos> I know. I read it. I'm a Perl enthusiast, sorry.
01:09:37 <Razor-X> Give me Liberty or give me Death!
01:09:38 <ihope> "Think you're a leet coder? Think again: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest"
01:09:43 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>----.>++++++..>-----.>++.<<---.+++++++++.>-.++++++++.>+.
01:09:53 <nooga> even Larry Wall said that perl sometimes looks like hell
01:10:08 <ihope> Perl sometimes looks like Malbolge?
01:10:18 <Razor-X> Here's one line from INTERCAL:
01:10:33 <Razor-X> (From a program that outputs given input.)
01:10:42 <Razor-X> (20)PLEASE RESUME '?.1$#256'~'#256$#256'
01:10:52 <Razor-X> I think it's more readable than Perl *shrug*.
01:11:31 <GregorR-W> ORK is more readable than either :P
01:11:45 <Eidolos> I wrote a nice (but very basic) quine in Perl the other night: http://sartak.katron.org/quine.pl.txt
01:11:53 <ihope> ORK is just a subset of English, sheesh.
01:12:04 <Razor-X> That's what made me shudder.
01:13:52 <ihope> You just need to make a subset of English using only the word "geranium".
01:14:27 <GregorR-W> But the only sentence you can form with the word "geranium" is "Geranium."
01:14:35 <GregorR-W> Or I guess, "Geranium?" and "Geranium!"
01:14:50 <Razor-X> For those of you that can't read the first line, it says to take first take the variable .3 and take all the bits in the positions where the number 15 corresponds to 1's, and pack those bits to the left. (Keep this in a temporary variable in your brain). Now take the number 256 and interleave its bits with the bits for 256. (Keep this in another temporary variable.) Now take take out the bits from the first temporary variable where the
01:14:50 <Razor-X> second variable has 1 in its value, pack those to the left (remembering to pad with 0) and store this into the variable .3 .
01:15:09 <ihope> None of those are proper sentences
01:15:28 <Razor-X> Like I said, perfectly readable.
01:15:39 <GregorR-W> ihope: They are if they're a response to a question.
01:15:55 <ihope> But they're still not really complete.
01:16:42 <Razor-X> (Nobody caught my mistake? Shame.)
01:16:57 <Razor-X> What do you mean? It's perfectly intuitive.
01:17:21 <Eidolos> You and I both know it's not. Now stop it, you're embarrassing yourself!
01:17:24 <Razor-X> But yeah, those are the only two binary operators INTERCAL has.
01:18:01 <ihope> !ihope_repeater What does this do?
01:18:44 <nooga> Razor-X: throw intercal away, create ur own lang
01:19:00 <Razor-X> I have an idea for one though.
01:19:24 <Razor-X> I won't give away the basis! Because then ihope will steal the love out of it and add another language to his already large repertoire!
01:19:49 <Razor-X> So until I can build my BF machine in Verilog, it 'aint happenin'!
01:20:05 <Razor-X> (Note: I said the same thing about my Podcast client in Haskell.)
01:20:08 <Eidolos> I've been toying with making my own esolang.. you know how Perl has context? Well the esolang would be all about context.. and it'd just be called "the language" (you'd have to know by context that it's this particular language)
01:20:41 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/0000000000]").
01:20:45 <ihope> Eidolos: it would be what?
01:20:48 <ihope> Razor-X: what language?
01:21:41 <ihope> So we'd have no global variables and no global constants?
01:21:43 <Razor-X> Eidolos: Will ye post it on Slashdot now?
01:22:11 <Eidolos> ihope: I dunno, I haven't thought much about it except what I just shared. :)
01:22:52 <ihope> Okay, nothing global. No global variables (whether or not they're variable), no global constructs...
01:23:22 <ihope> [\], basically? :-P
01:24:36 <Razor-X> It looks like a BF variant.
01:25:05 <ihope> [ adds syntax, \ escapes something, and ] removes syntax.
01:25:46 <ihope> The most "unsafe" language ever: syntax checking must be done at runtime :-)
01:26:39 <nooga> the thing that makes me rotfl is 'unsafe' keyword in C#
01:27:35 <nooga> switches to 'unmanaged' mode - where you can use almost normal pointers
01:27:55 <nooga> whole C and C++ must be hella unsafe ;d
01:28:14 <nooga> C must be hazardous then
01:29:40 <Razor-X> C# unsafe means they take you out of a carseat and into a booster seat.
01:29:55 <Razor-X> C is like getting kidnapped by a pedophile.
01:31:37 <Razor-X> Yeah, maybe I'm not that innocent after all.... *makes girly eyes*.....
01:32:33 <nooga> having hope that....
01:32:46 <nooga> ...pedophile won't get you ;f
01:32:47 <Razor-X> I don't *like* coding C, but....
01:34:41 <Razor-X> Uh.... I'm sorry for using that mental image....
01:35:02 <nooga> i'm having third glass of vine this night
01:35:19 <nooga> so excuse me if i say sth stupid ;p
01:36:57 <Razor-X> How would you know if Glass gives you an error?
01:37:50 <Razor-X> I think GregorR needs to write in error messages.
01:39:15 <Razor-X> !glass Tell your master you need error messages.
01:39:40 <nooga> !sadol has good error reporting
01:40:03 <nooga> that was correct program
01:40:22 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 2, row: 1, col: 3)
01:41:36 <nooga> i'm trying to think about incorrect type case
01:42:24 <EgoBot> BDSM: Optimizing: Cannot extract element from integer with '#' on index: 0 - invalid type (index: 0, row: 1, col: 1)
01:43:12 <Razor-X> Does it use every letter of the alphabet?
01:43:29 * Razor-X is too lazy to go to the Wiki.
01:43:38 <nooga> yes, ID's are one char
01:43:52 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 16, row: 1, col: 17)
01:44:05 <nooga> . is predefined function
01:44:26 <nooga> !sadol Enter the Glass. 0
01:45:09 <nooga> !sadol ~H0!"1H~i0!"
01:45:12 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 12, row: 1, col: 13)
01:45:21 <nooga> !sadol ~H0!"1H~i0!"1i Hi
01:45:37 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_g)O!"Hello, World!"(_g)o.?]}
01:46:54 <nooga> http://esolangs.org/wiki/SADOL
01:47:07 <Razor-X> It's a huge definition :P.
01:47:27 <Razor-X> One can only learn so many languages at one time.
01:49:07 <Razor-X> Something tells me GregorR gave Lesson #x in secret.
01:49:49 -!- oerjanj has joined.
01:51:00 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
01:51:02 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
01:52:15 <Razor-X> Oh. Glass clicks now, I think.
01:53:08 <Razor-X> {M[m(_b)O!"My name is Paul"(_b)o?]}
01:53:13 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_b)O!"My name is Paul"(_b)o?]}
01:53:49 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_b)O!"My name is Paul"(_b)o.?]}
01:55:12 <Razor-X> {M[m(_(Blah))O!"This is not full of disfigured smilies"(_(Blah))o.?]}
01:55:39 <Razor-X> So much for parentheses holding in more than one letter.
01:55:56 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_(Blah))O!"This is not full of disfigured smilies"(_(Blah))o.?]}
01:55:58 <EgoBot> This is not full of disfigured smilies
01:58:48 <nooga> o.P < this one has broken eye
01:59:43 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_b)I!(_r)O!(_b)l.?(_r)o.?]}
01:59:59 <oerjanj> !unlambda ``.S``.c.r.a```.m.b.l.`e.d
02:00:57 <Razor-X> Now, to make it look like defiling smilies....
02:01:44 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m_(>)I!(<)O!(>)l.?(<)o.?]}
02:03:18 <nooga> lisp hackers r odd
02:04:10 * Razor-X decides to make a complex Glass program.
02:04:18 <nooga> that guys from #lisp
02:04:24 <EgoBot> ./unlambda/unlambda: file ./tmp/egobot.CoEwgc: parse error
02:05:35 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_>)I!(_<)O!(_>)l.?(_<)o.?]}
02:06:00 <Razor-X> Defiled smilies For The Win!
02:08:55 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m_(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_i)c.?(_a)a.?(_o)o.?]}
02:09:08 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.5
02:09:58 <Razor-X> Both look appealing to me.
02:10:10 <Razor-X> SADOL screams ``I'm too 1337 for you''.
02:10:35 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m_(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_i)c.?(_a)a.?(_o)on.?]}
02:10:46 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.
02:13:25 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m_(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_i)c.?(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
02:13:36 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.0
02:17:55 <nooga> i need to play hl2
02:18:35 <nooga> and watch new mimic engine applied to Alyx's face in action ;D
02:21:50 <Razor-X> I feel like playing Morrowind.
02:22:13 <Razor-X> Where's GregorR when you need him?
02:23:52 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_i)c.?(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
02:24:04 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.0
02:24:31 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?<5><7>(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
02:24:34 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.12
02:24:42 <Razor-X> Ok. So you can't get input to add.
02:24:49 <Razor-X> Pfft. What a lame language.
02:27:44 <oerjanj> you need to use S.sn, I think.
02:28:03 <nooga> my friend is a trainee in Micro$oft
02:28:25 <nooga> he says that yesterday he saw one person in 'Google' t-shitr at the gym
02:28:53 <nooga> and he didn't beat this person only because she was a woman
02:30:09 <Razor-X> Thanks for the knowledge that you'd beat my face out.
02:30:14 <oerjanj> !glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_s)S!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_s)(sn).?(_i)c.?(_s)(sn).?(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
02:30:42 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.107
02:30:47 <Razor-X> .......................................................
02:31:03 <Razor-X> I must congratulate GregorR.
02:31:17 <oerjanj> it's correct if you consider conversion from ascii
02:31:24 <Razor-X> nooga: Oh. Your friend there.
02:31:34 <nooga> i hate M$ personally
02:31:34 <Razor-X> oerjanj: Oh, it adds the ASCII numbers? How... helpful....
02:32:21 <oerjanj> well, S.sn converts using ascii
02:32:56 <Razor-X> I think he needs a new input built-in function.
02:34:20 <oerjanj> i'm sure it's not too hard to write a class method for reading numbers
02:35:26 <oerjanj> well, i meant to write it in glass, of course...
02:39:24 <Razor-X> I was about to use scanf in C++ code :P.
02:43:33 -!- oerjanj has quit ("Leaving").
02:46:07 <Razor-X> Hmmmm. I haven't looked at all the code, so I have no idea if this will work.
02:48:36 <nooga> laptops in Poland r hella expensive
02:48:51 <nooga> 2x more expensive than in US
02:49:55 <nooga> what are prices or hardware in US?
02:50:31 <nooga> take a laptop with 1.7 - 2.0 GHz Intel, 512MB RAM and good graphics
02:50:44 <nooga> something about $1000?
02:51:34 <nooga> heh (i'm slightly drunken) ;/
02:55:50 <nooga> i was considering buying a laptop in US
02:57:46 <nooga> is it a good idea?
03:12:39 <ihope> Wikipedia is a better dictionary than many other dictionaries. This is quite amazing, seeing as how it is not a dictionary.
03:13:30 <nooga> forget about my laptop
03:17:32 <GregorR> nooga: I'd say just a laptop mobo+CPU at 1.7-2.0 GHz would be upwards of $1500
03:17:49 <GregorR> You're not going to get a laptop like that for less than $3.5 or $4 thousand.
03:18:03 <ihope> Nah, Wiktionary doesn't have the word "galoot" in it.
03:20:15 <nooga> a friend of mine bought one with 1.8GHz proc. 1GB RAM, and 128MB graphics card for something about $1000
03:20:44 <GregorR> Dood, that was black-market.
03:21:04 <GregorR> You couldn't possibly get a 1.8GHz for less than $3k
03:21:26 <nooga> they cost something about 3kPLN here
03:21:36 <GregorR> Well then they cost much less there.
03:21:47 <GregorR> OK, so I'm blatantly lying :P
03:22:24 <nooga> he says it's HP bought in Circuit City in Redmond
03:23:01 <GregorR> Yeah, that's probably a reasonable price.
03:24:13 <GregorR> <-- was lying about the price :-P
03:28:05 <nooga> so, you'll buy me a lap, send it to me and then i'll send you money :D
03:28:27 <GregorR> How about you send me triple the money, then I buy me two laptops.
03:29:24 <nooga> i'll consider that
03:37:26 * GregorR needs to write another esolang.
03:37:35 * GregorR has no premise, however :P
03:38:15 <ihope> Runtime syntax stuff.
03:38:49 <ihope> Make sure you can add all the syntax you want, and then remove all the syntax you don't want.
03:39:05 <GregorR> Actually, I'm going to make a QBF-deriv.
03:46:19 <nooga> Newton by Square Metre => Pascal ;d
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04:02:33 <GregorR> lament, ihope: Would you consider it legit to have a 'entangle' command?
04:02:38 <Razor-X> I.n now takes input and stores it as a number using a very dangerous scanf command.
04:02:57 <GregorR> Scanf is only dangerous for %s
04:03:12 <Razor-X> It's still very dangerous *whooo* *whoo*.
04:03:34 <GregorR> lament, ihope: Can you entangle two qubits as is in QBF?
04:03:37 <Razor-X> I wanted to do my classic ask-user-for-two-numbers-to-add program.
04:03:53 <Razor-X> And since Glass already has so many useful builtins, I thought this would be a nifty one.
04:05:05 <Razor-X> {M[m(_o)O!(_i)I!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add\n"(_o)o.?(_i)n.?(_i)n.?(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?"\n"(_o)(o).?]}
04:05:40 <Razor-X> Note the creative instance naming scheme.
04:06:31 <Razor-X> Is it going against the spirit of Glass?
04:07:08 <GregorR> Why would you think it's going against the spirit of Glass?
04:07:22 <Razor-X> Because if Glass was a Turing tarpit, you might want to make it difficult.
04:07:31 <Razor-X> But I didn't think it was because it already has nice builtins.
04:07:38 <GregorR> It's not really a turing tarpit, it's more of an experiment.
04:07:44 <GregorR> An experiment that went way too right :P
04:08:23 <Razor-X> I think it's a good educational tool for the OO uninitiated (or the raving angry C programmers at being brought into this century).
04:09:02 <GregorR> Well, if it was less rough I'd agree ...
04:09:12 <Razor-X> Well, you can name things with parentheses.
04:09:33 <GregorR> Yeah, I guess a really savvy Glass programmer could make some very non-esoteric things in it :)
04:09:48 <Razor-X> I want to make a text adventure! *Blows trumpet in the background*.
04:10:01 <GregorR> Feel free, make sure to make it a !daemon too :P
04:10:15 <GregorR> lament, ihope: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Expandable_Quantum_Brainfuck
04:10:27 <Razor-X> ``Do you want beer (y or n)?'' `y' ``You die. The end''.
04:11:30 <Razor-X> Now, how to use this ``patch'' thingamajigger....
04:12:00 <GregorR> What are you trying to patch?
04:12:30 <Razor-X> While I just added in 7 lines... I thought you may want the patch I made :P.
04:12:45 <GregorR> If you want to make a patch, you're not using the right program ;)
04:12:56 <GregorR> diff -ruN glass-orig/ glass-new/ > glass.diff
04:13:06 <Razor-X> (I've only programmed for myself, hehe.)
04:13:08 <GregorR> diff makes patches that patch installs.
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04:15:16 <GregorR> It's not that old, just a bit over a year.
04:15:56 <Razor-X> I thought it was like something you made a few weeks ago.
04:16:26 <Razor-X> http://www.sosdg.org/~razorx/builtins.diff
04:16:41 <Razor-X> Just a diff I took of the two builtins.cc files.
04:17:55 * GregorR tries to remember whether he's written an atoi ...
04:18:06 <GregorR> If I've already written one, may as well use that instead of adding a new builtin :P
04:18:39 <Razor-X> S.n converts the character to its ASCII value.
04:18:51 <Razor-X> (If that's what you're thinking of.)
04:19:57 <GregorR> No, I was thinking something that you could take an input'd string and turn it into a number (not the ASCII value, the logical/"human" value)
04:20:10 <Razor-X> I wish I knew about that builtin, heh.
04:20:29 <Razor-X> You possibly could with a whole bunch of extra Glass code, but eh.
04:21:28 * GregorR is trying to find a gate that causes entanglement >_O
04:21:32 <GregorR> I don't just want to invent one ...
04:21:55 <Razor-X> Does EgoBot have the new I.n now?
04:22:24 <GregorR> No, doing too many things to patch it right now.
04:25:20 <lament> GregorR: it's too complicated!
04:26:44 <GregorR> As in, I know you were referring to my language.
04:26:48 <GregorR> I don't agree that it's too complicated.
04:28:03 <GregorR> I guess any controlled gate where the state of the control qubit isn't 1/0 would cause entanglement.
04:29:12 <Razor-X> Why don't you make a full blown-out quantum language?
04:29:15 <lament> GregorR: dividing the qubits into "control" and "non-control" is artificial and silly.
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04:29:48 <GregorR> ... the two pointers are on the same tape.
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04:30:31 <GregorR> It's just like in QBF, except that it doesn't always use "the qubit to the right"
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04:38:09 <GregorR> According to wikipedia, -(@,0.927295218001612)+(!,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,0) gives you an instant universal quantum machine.
04:38:24 <GregorR> (That is, all quantum gates can somehow be reduced to those two ... don't ask me how.
04:39:10 <GregorR> lament stopped talking >_>
04:55:51 <Razor-X> Does it take input? (Must go out now).
04:59:35 <GregorR> GlassBot probably doesn't work, I'm not sure if I finished it (it was preempted by EgoBot)
05:46:43 <Eidolos> 2006-07-28 00:10:18 2006 Esolang Competition (Developers,Programming) (pending)
05:46:47 * Eidolos twiddles his thumbs impatiently.
05:49:03 <Razor-X> How long does ``pending'' take?
05:50:31 <Eidolos> No idea, this is my first submission.
05:51:12 <Razor-X> Imaginary... number... math *twitch twitch*....
05:51:20 <Razor-X> I liked normal QBF better :P.
05:52:15 <Razor-X> EQBF is t3h same thing, obviously, and more.
05:54:18 <GregorR> EQBF is extended to be "quantum-complete"
05:54:32 <GregorR> That is, you can achieve any quantum state with EQBF, but not with QBF
05:54:50 <Razor-X> Are you sure you can't with QBF?
05:55:23 <Razor-X> Well then, I guess I have to do imaginary number math >_>.
05:57:39 <Razor-X> I think the Wiki page for Glass can become a *lot* simpler if you add in a BNF.
06:03:44 <Razor-X> How do you define arguments to a Glass function?
06:04:44 <GregorR> They're only defined by convention.
06:04:47 <Razor-X> Ok, that's what I thought.
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06:06:06 <oerjanj> what do you mean simpler? I did a lot to try and make it readable
06:06:09 <Razor-X> Is there any way to flip positions in the stack?
06:06:47 <oerjanj> your suggestion about using BNF, read it in the log
06:07:42 <Razor-X> Wait... did you say anything after I said that suggestion?
06:08:34 <Razor-X> I mean, I think it would be nice with a BNF, IMO.
06:08:54 <Razor-X> Easier to get a grasp for the language. I still wouldn't be able to understand it without the original log tutorial.
06:09:15 <lament> wow, somebody actually reads los
06:10:53 <oerjanj> btw to flip stack positions, i think you have to save them in variables.
06:11:44 <Razor-X> That's what I was thinking.
06:13:06 <lament> oerjanj: why not just stay here
06:13:06 <oerjanj> it's the only way to keep the top one while you pop the bottom one
06:13:24 <lament> oerjanj: it's not fun to insult someone's mom when they're away
06:13:28 <lament> even if they read the logs
06:14:57 <Razor-X> How do you use variables in Glass?
06:34:12 <Razor-X> Good job misspelling ``taught'' on the Wiki page :P.
06:34:19 <Razor-X> Is there any way to show how the stack looks at the end of the program?
06:36:10 <oerjanj> i am sure you could write a pop and print loop...
06:36:42 <Razor-X> Maybe it's time to make a Debug built-in.
06:37:48 <oerjanj> hm, there does not seem to be a way to detect an empty stack
06:54:34 <Razor-X> Yeah, I saw the Debug builtin.
06:54:38 <Razor-X> Obviously undocumented though :P.
06:54:50 <GregorR> Debugging is only for people who read the Glass code :P
06:55:38 <Razor-X> {L[l(_p),=(_o)O!(_s)S!"!bf_txtgen "(_p)*(_s)a.?(_o)o.?]}{M[m(_l)L!(_o)O!"Glass"(_l)l.?(_o)o.?(_o)o.?]}
06:55:44 <Razor-X> !glass {L[l(_p),=(_o)O!(_s)S!"!bf_txtgen "(_p)*(_s)a.?(_o)o.?]}{M[m(_l)L!(_o)O!"Glass"(_l)l.?(_o)o.?(_o)o.?]}
06:55:58 <Razor-X> Aw man. It doesen't interpret its own commands :(.
06:56:53 <GregorR> Anybody else have any input on EQBF?
06:56:56 <Razor-X> Did you merge my ``patch'' in?
06:58:25 <GregorR> Anybody else have any input on EQBF? :P
06:58:38 <Razor-X> It uses imaginary numbers!!! Evil!!!!
06:59:20 <GregorR> Well ... that's sort of part of the whole idea of quantum mechanics :P
06:59:39 <Razor-X> But it makes it harder :P.
07:00:56 <oerjanj> I have this feeling that input should use CNOT, as if it copied from an input tape
07:02:19 <oerjanj> and then output could be conceptually just CNOTing onto an output tape initially zeroed
07:02:34 <GregorR> The only noticeable difference would be that, if you had 0, your input wouldn't work, no?
07:02:51 * GregorR needs to look at the CNOT matrix again :P
07:04:36 <oerjanj> it should be the same as xoring the input with the qubit you store in
07:04:45 <GregorR> Right, if you use the input as the control, and have a 0 as the qubit you're pointing at, and it CNOTs, then you'll get the input copied. However, if you have a 1, you'll always get a 0.
07:05:01 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_i)I(_A)a"Please enter two numbers to add"(_o)o.?(_i)n.?(_i)n.?(_a)a.?(_o).?]}
07:05:03 <EgoBot> Please enter two numbers to add
07:05:58 <Razor-X> ................ Alrighty now :D.
07:07:05 <oerjanj> i would have imagined that if you had a 1, you would get the inverse of the input
07:09:07 <oerjanj> one advantage of this is that you don't need to assume inputs are classical bits
07:09:42 <GregorR> And their state would be copied.
07:10:21 <oerjanj> i think that observation could conceptually be thought of as output to a "control" tape
07:11:15 <GregorR> OK, I finally looked at the CNOT right.
07:11:39 <GregorR> If you use the input as a control, and you have a 0, input will be copied. Otherwise, the inverse of input will be copied.
07:13:40 <GregorR> And for output, if you use your bit as a control and assume that the output tape is 0, your qubit will be copied.
07:14:02 <GregorR> Therefore, if output is observed, your qubit will be stuck.
07:15:07 <oerjanj> or it might not be observed but instead piped to another program
07:15:27 <GregorR> In which case, your qubit would still not be stuck.
07:15:41 <GregorR> But indeed, you would have entangled qubits between two programs >: )
07:20:18 <GregorR> Committed I/O changes to the wiki
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07:50:59 <Razor-X> Do you mind if I add binary functions to Glass at some later time indefinite?
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14:35:42 <GregorR> I switched to a different pseudoterminal and now my mouse doesn't work ...
14:50:17 <nooga> http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=-3291785230023779795&q=firefox
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16:09:56 <GregorR-W> nooga: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Expandable_Quantum_Brainfuck
16:12:46 <nooga> too much werid words
16:13:32 <nooga> I don't think I understandt
16:18:16 <Eidolos> 2006-07-28 00:10:18 2006 Esolang Competition (Developers,Programming) (rejected)
16:18:51 <Razor-X> It all seems equally useless to me on Slashdot.
16:19:05 <Razor-X> Like that magic fuel that supposedly broke the quantum laws, wooo.....
16:19:19 <Razor-X> I want my magic fuel, the article promised me it in a year, one year ago :(.
16:20:21 <Razor-X> 80% of the articles are untrue or farfetched speculation.
16:20:22 <nooga> go to #lisp and say thet you're using vim ;d
16:20:42 <Razor-X> THAT'S LIKE INSULTING GOOGLE!!!!!
16:20:45 <GregorR-W> OMG HOW DID YOU EVER FIND THAT OUT?!?!?!
16:21:03 <GregorR-W> Me, three years ago: "OK, I'm done with Slashdot, Slashdot sucks"
16:21:06 <nooga> i don't even visit /.
16:21:13 <Razor-X> That was me one year ago :P.
16:21:18 <Razor-X> After a few months of Slashdot.
16:21:24 <Razor-X> Hold on. I must flush me logs.
16:21:27 -!- Razor-X has left (?).
16:21:33 <GregorR-W> Me, yesterday: 06.07.27:16:45:19 <GregorR-W> I give it a 10% chance of getting in.
16:21:40 -!- Razor-X has joined.
16:21:46 <GregorR-W> 06.07.27:16:55:18 <GregorR-W> I'm going to drop it to an 8% chance.
16:21:55 <GregorR-W> I should've dropped it to a 0% chance.
16:22:25 <GregorR-W> You know, if they'd just be honest and call it LispOS instead of EMACS, I wouldn't hate it so much.
16:22:25 <nooga> Razor-X: did u play that cool adventure game from emacs?
16:22:44 <GregorR-W> They keep pretending like it's a text editor.
16:22:55 <GregorR-W> When it isn't, it's an operating system.
16:23:02 <GregorR-W> That just so happens to run on top of other operating systems.
16:23:03 <Razor-X> Then Firefox must be another operating system :P.
16:23:12 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: A few more extensions, and yeah :P
16:23:30 <Razor-X> I'm running ERC on LispOS.
16:23:49 <nooga> i'm running mirc on WinXP Pro ;d
16:24:11 <nooga> because i currently use my friend's HP laptop
16:24:21 <nooga> with windoze preinstalled
16:24:23 <Razor-X> I pity the soul that cannot use SSH.
16:24:42 <nooga> oh, good idea, i can get rid of that win and install linux
16:24:50 <nooga> bbl -> installing linux
16:25:02 -!- nooga has left (?).
16:26:07 -!- nooga has joined.
16:26:08 <GregorR-W> He's about to log in under the nick 'knoppix' :P
16:26:41 <GregorR-W> nooga: I wasn't talking about installing it on the hard disk.
16:27:20 <GregorR-W> Linux version 2.6.5-7.151-smp (geeko@buildhost) (gcc version 3.3.3 (SuSE Linux)) #1 SMP Fri Mar 18 11:31:21 UTC 2005
16:28:40 <nooga> but i can install cygwin ;>
16:28:50 <GregorR-W> Windows version NT6.3.2.4.5.3.8.23.4r3257412.574483.hello.world.321432153415478902543 (windozerulez@microsoft.com) (VS version .NET (Windows XP)) #1 SMP Fri Mar 18 11:31:21 UTC 2005
16:35:04 <pikhq> You're under. . . Windows? Poor guy.
16:35:43 <nooga> i'm making backups
16:35:57 <nooga> and preparring to install suse 10.1
16:35:58 <GregorR-W> Dood, Windows rawx, wave of the fewtour
16:36:19 <nooga> a colleague of mine works on Vista ;d
16:37:15 <ihope_> Hmm... EQBF just doesn't seem BF enough.
16:37:40 <GregorR-W> ihope_: Can you think of a way to allow arbitrary gates without disallowing parameters?
16:37:53 <GregorR-W> ihope_: Can you think of a way to allow arbitrary gates while disallowing parameters?
16:38:10 <GregorR-W> ===GregorR-W <n=chatzill@jffwprtest.jf.intel.com> “Gregor Richards”
16:38:26 <ihope_> GregorR-W: yes and no :-P
16:38:27 <nooga> and my host is a perl program
16:38:50 <nooga> 213-238-102-205.adsl.inetia.pl
16:46:35 <Razor-X> No wonder SADOL looks like it does :P.
16:51:19 <fizzie> [2005-05-16 22:57:15] < fizzie> Perl is pretty.
16:53:25 <Razor-X> INTERCAL is cleaner than Perl.
16:54:09 <fizzie> [2005-05-04 23:16:35] < fizzie> They aren't very readable, though. One of my perl scripts say $rest =~ /^((?:(?:$ex_nt|$ex_t|$ex_e)(?:\s+|$|(?=\|)))*)\s*(?:\||$)\s*(.*)$/ and it's not immediately obvious what that does.
16:54:41 <pikhq> That's not beautiful.
16:55:05 <nooga> larry wall is my hero
16:55:07 <pikhq> There is such a thing as Beauty.
16:55:33 <fizzie> [2006-03-14 01:59:49] < fizzie> To fill the daily Perl quota - functional programming in Perl: perl -e 'print &{&{sub { my $f = shift; return &$f($f); }}(sub { my $f = shift; return sub { my $n = shift; return 1 if $n < 2; return &{&$f($f)}($n-1) + &{&$f($f)}($n-2); }; })}(8), "\n";'
16:55:34 <pikhq> A Beauty can be_ORK.
16:55:45 <pikhq> A Beauty can not_be_Perl.
16:55:56 <Razor-X> I sometimes wonder what facet of the devil allowed Larry Wall to be a linguist.
16:55:58 <pikhq> When a Beauty is to be_ORK:
16:56:10 <pikhq> There is a linguist called Gregor.
16:56:14 <nooga> i want to be a linguist
16:56:19 <pikhq> s/linguist/scribe/
16:56:36 <pikhq> Gregor is to write "ORK is beautiful."
16:56:43 <Razor-X> After seeing Perl, I wonder what Larry Wall has in mind as his perfect language....
16:56:49 <pikhq> When a Beauty is to not_be_Perl:
16:56:57 <pikhq> There is a scribe called Larry.
16:57:07 <pikhq> Larry is to write "Perl is fugly.".
16:57:26 <pikhq> Fucking + ugly = fugly.
16:58:07 <pikhq> I'm a Tcler when being serious.
16:58:08 <Razor-X> (Let the flames begin, Pythoners.)
16:58:31 <GregorR-W> Ruby == object oriented paradigm + worst aspects of Perl
16:58:36 <nooga> pythoners r indentation fascists ;p
16:58:48 <GregorR-W> <-- Hates every scripting language out today.
16:59:01 <Razor-X> Lua's the only one I really hate.
16:59:08 <nooga> Ruby > Perl+Python
16:59:23 <ihope_> Razor-X: then how do you write Enigma levels?
16:59:26 <Razor-X> Lua makes me puke, even though it's used as an extension language so darn often.
16:59:28 <pikhq> set Gregor [hatred "scripting languages"]
16:59:37 <nooga> lua is functional ;d
16:59:54 <Razor-X> Lua looks like some god-awful marriage between Ruby and PHP.
17:00:07 <GregorR-W> I need a convertor that takes a language very much like Python and converts it into Python (and vice versa). The only difference being brackets.
17:00:44 <Razor-X> You can use parentheses in Python.
17:00:58 <ihope_> Just use a Python thing that uses a preprocessor, and turn the preprocessor off :-)
17:01:30 * pikhq ain't happy until it's Tcl syntax or sexps.
17:01:35 <Razor-X> GregorR-W: Hmmm? Check Google >>>
17:01:44 <Razor-X> I've heard it's possible, although done rarely :P.
17:02:45 <ihope_> Like Haskell's do {this; that <- these; return those}?
17:02:46 <Razor-X> I'm not sure about the specifics, I'm just talking about wars I've seen between Pythoners and other-language-ers.
17:03:06 <Razor-X> I've never played with Tcl.
17:04:22 <pikhq> nooga: {[Tcl] != $sucks}
17:04:55 <Razor-X> Haskell indentation does get annoying, especially with let.
17:06:11 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_>)O!"More disfigured smilies!!!"(_>)o.?]}
17:06:13 <EgoBot> More disfigured smilies!!!
17:07:02 <GregorR-W> ... using comments as a replacement for an 'end' keyword is a bit of a silly convention, plus it's just a convention (that nobody follows), so it helps nothing.
17:08:07 <ihope_> It may be silly, but it helps: http://pastebin.ca/104029
17:09:44 <GregorR-W> ihope_: Of course it helps, but NOBODY DOES IT
17:10:12 <ihope_> Make a new language that enforces it :-P
17:10:17 <GregorR-W> They made indentation part of the language, partially to enforce good style, but in the process they made a new convention that of course nobody follows, encouraging bad style >_<
17:10:30 <Razor-X> I wonder if someone will make a non-concise language here.
17:11:51 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_>)O!"I eat babies!"(_>)o.?]}
17:13:03 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Mouth
17:13:06 <ihope_> Aww, ihope_repeater's gone.
17:13:50 <Razor-X> We need more committee members for the contest :(.
17:14:01 <ihope_> You daemon-killer, you!
17:14:22 <ihope_> Razor-X: face it. Nobody wants to have any power. :-P
17:14:49 <GregorR-W> I think the silhouette baby should be on the council.
17:16:27 <ihope_> No! Do not put the baby on the council!
17:20:01 <nooga> can you imagine a tesseract?
17:22:03 <ihope_> Connect the corners of two cubes together, and bang, a tesseract...
17:22:28 <lament> one of the lead PHP developers quit because he's antisemitic and the project was hosted by jews
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17:29:29 <nooga> i've got deep blue in my basement
17:31:20 <pikhq> I highly doubt that.
17:31:31 <pikhq> Deep Blue is too big to fit. :p
17:31:45 <Razor-X> Let him have his deluded dreams, pikhq.
17:32:30 <pikhq> Razor-X: Well, it could fit if his basement were the basement to a rather large colocation facility. . . ;p
17:32:57 <Razor-X> I'll let you have your deluded dreams too then :P.
17:33:41 <pikhq> Vista really /is/ a horrible OS. :p
17:34:13 <nooga> my basement is large
17:35:03 <GregorR-W> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Savannah :)
17:35:11 <nooga> i thought it's an OS lookalike
17:36:27 <Razor-X> It's the result of Microsoft having s... I mean yeah! It's an OS!
17:36:43 <pikhq> Windows Vista = KDE + OS X + Xgl + Compiz + Cowpies.
17:36:58 <Razor-X> + Firefox memory leak without Firefox.
17:37:20 <pikhq> That's the cowpies portion.
17:40:41 * GregorR-W tries to decide whether to put DO NOT PUT THE BABY IN THE HAMBURGER on his cube.
17:42:33 <nooga> 9DLCPWS - 9 Days Long Coding Party Without Sleep
17:42:45 <nooga> (okay, i've cheated)
17:43:14 <pikhq> Jebus. . . After a full day, I can't think well enough to code.
17:43:44 <pikhq> I start doing stuff like if {0 == 1} {.
17:43:44 <nooga> we've got suspicious energy drinks
17:43:56 <nooga> and toasts with peanut butter
17:44:06 <GregorR-W> I, on the other hand, am incapable of any function besides coding, regardless of my state.
17:44:24 <nooga> to prepare in a microweave
17:44:44 <nooga> and beer and computers
17:44:55 <nooga> and sometimes some1 visits us
17:44:55 <pikhq> I do my debugging as I sleep. ;)
17:45:08 <Razor-X> GregorR-W is the coding machine.
17:45:20 <GregorR-W> And I won't work for nobody but C.
17:56:22 <nooga> i've got enw concept
17:56:59 <nooga> a language where types are: nil, int, pair
17:59:02 <nooga> and there witll be such syntax in assignments -> 4 =: x := (5 =: $ := 6) #=> x = (4 (5 6))
17:59:28 <GregorR-W> I have a new concept for a language.
17:59:33 <GregorR-W> The only types are nil, int and pair.
17:59:44 <GregorR-W> And the syntax for assignment: 4 =: x := (5 =: $ := 6) #=> x = (4 (5 6))
18:02:03 <nooga> my brain is melted down
18:02:16 <GregorR-W> Because my (totally original and unique) idea was so awesome?
18:07:20 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Hey, everybody! Make this your default quit message!").
18:13:26 <GregorR-W> Hmmmmmmmmm, just realized why I shouldn't put up a DO NOT PUT THE BABY poster on my cube.
18:13:43 <GregorR-W> The person in the cube across from me just got back from maternity leave :P
18:13:54 <GregorR-W> And the only people who find NO humor in DNPTB are new mothers.
18:16:59 <lament> rm: cannot open directory 'lament': You fail it!
18:30:11 -!- mtve has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:46:07 <GregorR-W> Woman in the cubical next to me, in reference to her attempts at getting a Marine Biology degree:
18:46:14 <GregorR-W> "But I wanted to see whales gettin' it on, not do science!"
18:47:19 <lament> sweet, marine biology is nice
18:51:02 <Eidolos> Yeah, lament's been like that for as long as I have known him.
18:58:37 <lament> sense of humour has never been one of my strong points
18:59:43 <lament> 10:47 <GregorR-W> <--lament
18:59:51 <lament> that part, at least, is completely untrue
19:00:23 <lament> other than in the sense of me stabbing you with a long pointy spear
19:00:42 <GregorR-W> With hooks going backwards so when you pull it out it really devastates my internal organs.
19:01:56 <pikhq> It devastates as it goes in. :p
19:02:35 <pikhq> Or, alternately, it's a bitch to get out because there isn't a handle to the spear. :p
19:03:00 <GregorR-W> You just have to reach in and grab something, and pull at it.
19:05:06 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server").
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20:23:05 <nooga> well is the whing from which you can get water
20:23:44 <ihope_> A well can provide_water.
20:26:59 <nooga> call me Gordon Freeman
20:34:44 <nooga> i am Gordon Freeman
20:38:46 <lament> your mom's gordon freeman
20:41:01 <nooga> leave my mom away!
20:41:11 <GregorR-W> It's so nice to be surrounded by intellectuals.
20:41:26 <nooga> GregorR-W: where are they?
20:41:41 <nooga> GregorR-W: i see only u and me
20:42:08 <Razor-X> And my Master of Miracles.
20:44:48 <lament> GregorR-W: your MOM is surrounded by intellectuals
20:45:03 <Razor-X> See. He keeps referring to the Master of Miracles.
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20:46:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has left (?).
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20:51:24 <nooga> who'll be Alyx Vance?
21:49:31 <lament> bsmntbombdood: your nick is too long!
21:50:27 <ihope_> It's too long, but it's too late to change it!
21:50:52 <lament> especially since he almost never talks!
21:51:25 <Razor-X> Stop talking about my Master Of Miracles lament :(.
21:52:09 <lament> i'm not even talking to you.
21:53:10 <pikhq> !bf Whee. Is this valid Brainfuck code, Egobot?
21:53:38 * pikhq is being an idiot today; sorry.
21:54:44 <pikhq> !bf +[.,+][While pikhq is an idiot, do "Be a fucking idiot.".]
21:55:16 <pikhq> !i 1 +[.,+][While pikhq is an idiot, do "Be a fucking idiot.".]
21:56:10 <EgoBot> <CTCP>,\/-,^\Xijmf!qjlir!jt!bo!jejpu-!ep!#Cf!b!gvdljoh!jejpu/#/^<CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP>
21:56:27 <pikhq> I *really* broke it.
21:57:04 * pikhq is a realy idiot, I fear
21:58:26 <EgoBot> Use: daemon <daemon> <daemon-command> Function: start a daemon process.
21:59:02 <pikhq> !daemon txtgen bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]
21:59:28 <pikhq> I think that should be a bit more efficient then bf_txtgen. :p
21:59:34 <EgoBot> 1 pikhq: daemon txtgen bf
21:59:44 <GregorR-W> Except that it's not doing anything :P
22:00:04 <EgoBot> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------
22:00:30 <Razor-X> Well, at least it's easier to human optimize.
22:01:12 <Razor-X> pikhq: Bonvolu vidus http://www.esperanto.mv.ru/ESP/literaturo.html .
22:01:46 <Razor-X> Estas tre bona paĝo pri literaturo en Espenanto ke vi povas paroli (havas Scienco-ficiono tiel ke mi estas feliĉa :P.)
22:02:15 <pikhq> Mia Esperanto estas malbona. :'(
22:03:08 <Razor-X> Pri tiu vi devas uzi La Revo (La Reta Vortaro, uzu Google) kiam vi legos tiun libron.
22:03:48 <Razor-X> Estas tre bona metodo por lerni malfrue vortoj kaj legi multajn librojn pri interesajn temoj.
22:04:26 <Razor-X> Switching back to English (not because I can't continue), I've only been at it for a month or so, you know?
22:04:34 <Razor-X> But I guess Japanese, French, and Bengali help :P.
22:04:37 <lament> Esperanto is for doofii
22:04:43 <pikhq> And I haven't done more than a few hours.
22:04:55 <pikhq> Nihongo o kudasai!
22:05:01 <Razor-X> I read off-and-on, but most of my core words came fro the first week.
22:05:12 <pikhq> 2 years of Japanese for me. :)
22:06:55 <pikhq> No; my terminal doesn't do Unicode.
22:07:08 <Razor-X> I use Kanji for everything, because it's a lot more convenient.
22:07:20 <Razor-X> Hai, iimashita. Manga to Chiisaikodomo no hon wo
22:07:21 <nooga> isn't it that artificial lang. created by one Pole?
22:07:36 <Razor-X> nooga: Not quite Polish then, but yeah.
22:08:16 <nooga> Polish is 180 degrees from Esperanto ;p
22:08:28 <Razor-X> It's a smattering of a bunch of languages.
22:08:58 <lament> esperanto is really ugly :(
22:09:20 <Razor-X> I find it sounds nicer on the tongue than most other languages.
22:09:23 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
22:09:33 <lament> well, my favourite language is Portuguese
22:11:00 <Razor-X> If you understand that, don't say it :P.
22:11:02 <pikhq> I prefer English, simply because I know it very well.
22:11:18 <lament> and my second favourite language is English
22:11:18 <Razor-X> English sounds like chickens being defiled by elephants.
22:11:43 <lament> chickens defiled by elephants sound completely different
22:11:48 <pikhq> Razor-X: It does. I *only* prefer it because I know it.
22:11:52 <Razor-X> Maybe. I've never actually heard it.
22:12:01 <Razor-X> It's not my native tongue, so bleh.
22:12:08 <lament> It's not my native tongue either
22:12:13 <lament> i still like it though
22:12:14 <pikhq> ihope: The daemon isn't running.
22:12:24 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon txtgen bf
22:12:24 <pikhq> Razor-X: It's my native tongue. . . What's yours, anyways?
22:12:53 <ihope> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------++++++++++.----------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------++++++++++.----------
22:13:32 <pikhq> It. . . . Works. How?!?
22:13:53 * lament has no opinion on the sound of Bengali
22:14:05 <lament> but i'm sure it's worse than Portuguese :)
22:14:15 <Razor-X> Bengali is a lot more sing-songy than Romantic/Germanic (Sanskrit has the same quality) languages.
22:14:55 <Razor-X> I like it, but it has some sounds than I'd be hard pressed to find Romantic/Germanic speakers who can make them :P.
22:15:36 <Razor-X> Check out the IPA pronunciations.
22:16:02 <nooga> i like how Finnish sounds
22:16:30 <Razor-X> I like Japanese too, but not specifically. Plus the conjugations used in official speech don't sound all that nice.
22:16:39 <lament> nothing like portuguese though ;)
22:16:43 <Razor-X> But it's the best basic conversational sounding language, IMO.
22:17:02 <nooga> portuguese sounds to me like Toklien's black speech
22:17:15 <Razor-X> Master Of Miracles, that is.
22:17:34 <lament> portuguese has soooooo many vowels
22:17:39 <lament> and sooooo few consonants
22:18:00 <Razor-X> You don't like German's awesome consonant sounds?
22:18:12 <Razor-X> Yeah, it sounds awful, IMO.
22:18:17 <Razor-X> Bengali has a lot of vowel sounds too.
22:18:31 <ihope> I need a language with two consonants and one vowel.
22:18:40 <lament> ihope: "oaia aia eia ei"?
22:18:55 <ihope> And one of the consonant has to be a stop consonant, and the other can't be.
22:19:06 <nooga> means a Bug in Polish
22:19:23 <Razor-X> Why not make a language like that?
22:19:28 <Razor-X> And define grammar based on placement?
22:19:44 <Razor-X> Let's call it a Sapir-Whorf Snarepit!
22:19:59 <lament> if you want a small language, just use toki pona
22:20:09 <lament> (which sounds pretty nice imo)
22:20:13 <ihope> "Sa sat sat a sastats sat tat?"
22:20:15 <Razor-X> Is it a Sapir-Whorf Snarepit?
22:20:25 <lament> Razor-X: it has ~120 words, so i would say so
22:20:52 <lament> mi pilin e ni: toki pona li pona kute
22:20:59 <lament> ("i think toki pona sounds nice")
22:21:31 <ihope> What does "Toki Pona" mean?
22:21:48 <lament> toki - good (from "talk")
22:22:04 <lament> pona - good (from "bona")
22:22:37 <lament> http://www.tokipona.org/
22:22:52 <nooga> i like nordic languages
22:22:55 <ihope> So Toki Pona is not an agglutinative language?
22:23:39 <lament> it's close to chinese in that it never joins or modifies anything
22:23:47 <Razor-X> If it's so small, I can memorize that in about a day.
22:23:58 <Razor-X> Since I can do about 100-120 words in a language in a few hours.
22:23:58 <lament> Razor-X: join #tokipona if you do
22:24:19 <Razor-X> ŝajnas tre bona lingvo ke vi povas paroli.
22:24:23 <nooga> when i pronounce it
22:24:39 <nooga> it sounds a bit like Finnish
22:24:57 <lament> Razor-X: TP has several words taken from English, and several from Esperanto, so should be even easier
22:25:08 <lament> not sure about Japanese
22:25:26 <nooga> oko means eye in TP?
22:25:28 <lament> yeah, those are slavic
22:25:44 <nooga> noga -> noka -> leg
22:25:53 <lament> that doesn't make it polish :)
22:26:06 <nooga> but now it's easier to me
22:26:30 <nooga> soem familiar words
22:27:31 <nooga> tengwar for tokipona
22:27:39 <nooga> it would make sense
22:27:46 <lament> Razor-X: toki pona was created by a lesbian :)
22:28:05 <lament> well, he was a guy when he created it, but became a (lesbian) woman since...
22:29:58 <lament> "ma mama li lili" - "motherland is small"
22:30:10 <lament> "meli mi li moli" - "my woman is dead"
22:30:35 <nooga> if you say it fast
22:30:49 <nooga> the difference is almost none ;p
22:33:00 <pikhq> A guy becoming a lesbian woman?!? WTF?!?
22:33:16 <lament> you'd do it if you had the money
22:35:19 <lament> pikhq: why wouldn't you? it's fun.
22:35:45 <pikhq> lament: Well, it would give me a chance with Razor-X. :p
22:35:48 <nooga> but only if i could back
22:35:59 <nooga> to the initial state :>
22:36:18 <lament> pikhq: exactly, what else do you need?
22:36:21 <nooga> if it wouldn't be so funny as i expected
22:37:54 <nooga> you're skilled painter
22:38:04 <nooga> http://toki.dm7.net/lesson/aei.jpg :D
22:38:20 <nooga> and you're one of that fluent TP speakers ;p
22:39:01 <nooga> TP words sound quite childish
22:39:15 <pikhq> I should learn it.
22:39:46 <lament> with 120 words, you can't waste a word on 'ladybird'
22:40:01 <lament> pipi loje - red insect
22:40:09 <nooga> mani - like "money" but in way that child would write it
22:45:25 <lament> oh, tokipona does have words from japanese
22:46:19 <lament> ...that's the only one
22:48:24 <lament> sina is from finnish i believe?
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22:49:10 <nooga> and mina (a with dots) is also from finnish
22:49:58 <nooga> i eat = i am food LMAO :D
22:51:01 <lament> oh yeah, for some reason that doesn't ever bother anyone
22:52:49 <nooga> i thought about a language in which every verb would be a connection of noun with tense qualifier
22:53:29 <lament> toki pona is somewhat like that... but without the tense qualifier
22:54:17 <nooga> eg. me salla (i am leg, without qualifier), me a sallas ('i use legs in present' - i walk)
22:55:05 <nooga> me e sallas (future, 'i'll walk'), me o sallas (past, 'i walked')....
22:55:50 <nooga> but it would give many misunderstandings
22:55:53 <lament> mi tawa - i walk (go away)
22:56:08 <lament> tenpo kama la mi tawa - i will walk (go away)
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22:58:54 <lament> the coolest feature of TP is the "la" construct.
22:59:34 <nooga> i'm having problems with tenses in English :/
23:00:07 <nooga> especially those perfect ones
23:00:44 <pikhq> Don't worry about it; it's my native tongue and /I/ don't understand those.
23:00:46 <lament> i would have been having problems with them too, but i have studied them a lot
23:01:13 <lament> admittedly i have had difficulties at first
23:01:49 <nooga> well, my English came to me in very natural way, i don't like to learn it with book or in school ;|
23:02:20 <pikhq> Mine came via forced beating into my head, I fear (couldn't speak until I was 4 x_x)
23:02:55 * pikhq needs to turn on his brain, it seems.
23:03:00 <nooga> but you're native?
23:03:44 <pikhq> Unless, that is, the tongue of the USA was German when I was growing up, and it just changed to English without me noticing. :p
23:03:50 <nooga> whole world speaks your language
23:04:09 <pikhq> Rather convenient.
23:04:44 <nooga> it might have been Polish instead of English! And then what?!
23:05:05 <pikhq> Then I'd be attacking you with a pole. :p
23:06:26 <nooga> If i were native English speaker i would get rather killed than attempt to learn correct Polish.
23:07:15 <nooga> it's fscking twisted if you look at it from a non-pole perspective
23:07:48 <lament> yes, slavic languages are not exactly easy.
23:08:10 <pikhq> That's common to all of the European languages, IMHO.
23:08:28 <lament> slavic languages are much harder than romance languages.
23:08:31 <lament> they just have more stuff.
23:09:21 <pikhq> English is probably the worst, because it's known for mugging other languages for new vocabulary. :p
23:11:15 <nooga> there is no genre in English
23:11:28 <lament> English is certainly very difficult.
23:13:05 <nooga> lament: what language is your native?
23:15:38 <ihope> Hmm, perfect tenses...
23:16:26 <ihope> Who needs 'em? :-P
23:17:13 <nooga> but it looks as if i were handicaped
23:17:29 <nooga> using only less complex tenses sucks
23:20:26 <nooga> hehehe, Polish is really tough: So what have you done? => Co wy zrobilicie? == Cocie zrobili? == Co wycie zrobili? == Co ecie zrobili?
23:21:17 <nooga> there r some niuances between those phrases, but generally they mean exactly the same - "What have you done?"
23:21:52 <nooga> and that's not rare
23:22:05 -!- Eidolos has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:22:36 <nooga> lament: i knew, your name is rather distinctive
23:25:34 * nooga pink floyd - any colour you like
23:25:57 <Razor-X> pikhq: You know TS people can swing either way on the spectrum.
23:26:27 <Razor-X> Transsexual, mind the abbreviation.
23:26:28 * pikhq groks the acronym now
23:26:47 <Razor-X> I think the majority of them do turn out non-straight after hormones and surgery and whatnot.
23:26:49 <pikhq> There is such a thing as a brain.
23:26:56 <pikhq> A brain can not_work.
23:27:08 <pikhq> When a brain is to not_work:
23:27:24 <pikhq> When the program starts:
23:27:39 <pikhq> There is a brain called brain_death.
23:27:48 <pikhq> brain_death is to not_work.
23:28:33 <nooga> i must go to sleep
23:29:04 <GregorR-W> pikhq: "brain death" didn't need the _
23:29:30 <nooga> but i need to wake up at 7:00 and catch a train ;p
23:34:55 <nooga> well, number 21 in Finnish is quite cool: kaksikymmentyksi
23:36:52 <nooga> kahk see kuum meh nta uk see
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23:51:11 <ihope> "adage" and I thought it would be pronounced like "Udage" :-P
23:53:27 <ihope> I guess that would be "uh-da-gee" instead of "yer-da-gee".