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00:26:43 <Razor-X> Basically it's a big conspiracy to op everyone but me.
00:27:27 * ihope curses at the missed oppoprunity
00:27:35 <ihope> Opportunity, even.
00:28:27 <ihope> So now you're the only one who can't have ops on ##quantum.
00:28:34 <ihope> Everybody else can.
00:33:56 <ihope> Okay, now you can have ops again.
00:36:45 <ihope> <nalioth> so type /stats p and find and /msg a staff member
00:36:52 <ihope> === p nalioth (i=nalioth@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.nalioth)
00:36:58 <ihope> === p 1 staff member
00:37:03 <Razor-X> Wait... why is Nalioth here......
00:37:35 <Razor-X> Is he gonna enter the contest?
00:38:20 <ihope> The same stuff as that at rot13.com?
00:39:04 <Razor-X> I've never been to rot13.com.
00:39:20 <Razor-X> I'm just speaking Engrish.
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00:51:29 <CakeProphet> I've got an extremly rogue idea for an esolang :D
00:51:43 <CakeProphet> In that... I have no idea what it's going to do... but I have a theme in mind
00:51:44 <GregorR-W> *snaps*, I was hoping for a rogue-like esolang ;)
00:52:32 <CakeProphet> The current "code name" for my esolang/rough-idea-that-has-no-actually-implementation-of-any-sort-at-the-moment is "CookieJar"
00:53:44 <CakeProphet> The first statement that popped into my head was "who took cookies from cookiejar" which... I have no idea what that'll actually do... but I'm pretty sure "cookiejar" is an array... while "cookies" is used to refer to any of the items in the array... while who is a wildcard for anything...
00:55:20 <Razor-X> So a shelf is an array of cookie jars?
00:55:32 <Razor-X> And a store is an array of shelves!
00:55:43 <CakeProphet> And then there could be a "mother" and "children"... which... would do something.
00:56:02 <CakeProphet> As you can see... I've thought long and hard on this one.
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00:57:07 <CakeProphet> Well let's see... mothers fill cookie jars... which could be bytes or something... and then children take cookies from it... which is removing cookies... not sure how the bytes interact in a way to form usable code though.
00:57:17 <Razor-X> お母さん！永遠に見付けたかった、けど今見付ける。一勝に、世界を持つ！！！！
00:57:49 <CakeProphet> I don't want to make another brainfuck copy but with cookie jars instead of bytes in an array :D
00:58:06 <CakeProphet> But that idea could be mapped out to a brainfuck-esque design ^_^
00:58:09 <Razor-X> At least will you destroy all creativity by making this a turing tarpit?
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00:59:11 <CakeProphet> Er... well... I want it to be readable... and be useful and not with only 2 elements.. soooo..
01:02:14 <ihope> It's the ASCII version of the up tack, which represents the bottom type, I think.
01:02:24 <ihope> Or the value bottom, or...
01:02:57 <ihope> Yeah, but there's also a bottom type, and I think that can represent it as well.
01:03:20 <ihope> Anyway: cookies are stored on the hard drive, and they persist between sessions. Users may clear cookies at any time, and they may set any of many restrictions on setting and getting cookies.
01:03:40 <ihope> Some users disable cookies entirely, as they can be a privacy risk or something.
01:04:05 <Razor-X> Can we calculate pie to a billion places?
01:04:40 <ihope> Pie in a billion places? Sure, just get one in every six people to bake pie.
01:05:11 <CakeProphet> hmm... I think I'm going to write a programming language entirely in Whenever.
01:09:27 <ihope> So is BF the only esoteric language that's better compiled than interpreted? :-)
01:09:29 <CakeProphet> CookieJar would probably work best for event-based crap...
01:11:51 <CakeProphet> "Who stole cookies from cookiejar" "IRCtext stole cookies." "Who me? Yes you!"
01:12:17 <CakeProphet> All of those being some sort of conditional statement.
01:14:01 <CakeProphet> Such a concept would be good for IRC bots in the current idea I've got.
01:14:12 <CakeProphet> Or anything that relies on events *nodnods*
01:15:45 <ihope> Somebody oughta make a language whose syntax is English grammar, but where the apparent meanings of sentences aren't any indication of what they actually do.
01:16:16 <ihope> So "colorless green ideas sleep furiously" might mean "increment register C, then jump to the contents of register G".
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01:19:41 <CakeProphet> Thinking outside of the same old boring types of languages is a bit diffciult for me :D
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01:38:19 <CakeProphet> Hmm..thinking up a language that doesn't follow the conventional... uh... practical languages is kind of difficult... for me anyways
01:38:34 <ihope> And that makes three channels with all members opped.
01:38:47 <ihope> RodgerTheGreat: tab completion ftw, as they say...
01:41:33 <CakeProphet> So... does everyone else hate functions just as much as I do?
01:42:03 <RodgerTheGreat> in what sense? Implementing interpreters with them, using them... ?
01:43:07 <ihope> Mathematical functions or imperative functions?
01:43:42 <CakeProphet> I love using -other peoples- functions.. for stuff like string manipulation and otherwise-much-longer-blocks-of-code stuff....
01:43:50 <CakeProphet> Programming language... er... functions? :?
01:44:09 <CakeProphet> But I'm far too lazy to make my own... and they almost never work.
01:44:11 <ihope> There are different kinds of functions used in programming.
01:44:31 <ihope> Haskell uses mathematical functions, but pretty much everything else uses imperative ones.
01:44:38 <CakeProphet> I'm guessing imperitive functions... but I hate math... so math functions probably suck even more.
01:45:08 * CakeProphet is a programmer that hates math... oh dear...
01:45:37 <ihope> Mathematical functions are just special imperative functions, namely ones that don't do anything except compute an answer and give it to you.
01:46:06 <ihope> So an input function isn't mathematical, because asking the user for something isn't computation.
01:46:29 <RodgerTheGreat> math != programming. programming *can* be about math, but it's really a pretty different thing.
01:47:03 <CakeProphet> Much different... otherwise I'd hate programming.
01:48:06 <ihope> Programming = computer science = math. >:-)
01:48:51 <CakeProphet> Fortunately I'm a n00b h4x><0R that doesn't do much but simple stuff with Python.
01:49:40 <ihope> I always thought of computer science as a mathematical thing.
01:49:49 <ihope> It's definitely not a science :-)
01:50:10 <CakeProphet> I don't really have any formal training at all.
01:51:20 <RodgerTheGreat> well, at least you started with a real language- I taught myself QBASIC.
01:51:46 <RodgerTheGreat> now I use Java and RealBASIC for most things, although I've been getting into PHP.
01:52:22 <ihope> Formal training would be nice.
01:53:37 <ihope> I think my dad taught me Pascal, then I tried to learn C, then he tried to teach me Java, then I learned Haskell, then I looked at Python.
01:53:52 <ihope> That's all the non-esoteric languages :-)
01:54:47 <ihope> I think my first functional-programming-language-like thing was lambda calculus, then my first actual language was probably Unlambda.
01:55:06 <ihope> Then I took a look at Lisp, and somehow landed with Haskell.
01:56:41 <ihope> Nobody uses functional languages.
01:56:49 <ihope> Isn't Java the big thing?
01:57:16 <CakeProphet> I like imperitive languages... which probably isn't suprising.
01:57:41 <ihope> We need a language that has every feature.
01:58:13 <CakeProphet> I could build it out of Python... just to give it insane memory demands :D
01:59:53 <ihope> It'd probably have to be dynamically typed, since static languages are more restrictive. Let people declare or infer types if they want to.
02:01:01 <CakeProphet> to create the most memory using language in existence.... so needlessly complex and unstructured that it makes absolutely no sense.
02:01:25 <ihope> Everybody wants to make the most esoteric language ever, hon.
02:01:36 <ihope> And Malbolge isn't it.
02:01:53 <CakeProphet> But all those sissies with their super-brainfucks... and small compilers... pfft... that's not esoteric anymore.
02:02:32 <CakeProphet> Now we need giant behemoths of insane complexity.
02:02:47 <ihope> We simply need to pack everything into one language, then insanify the syntax.
02:03:48 <ihope> To make it practical, we'd need the basics from every assembly language there is.
02:04:05 <ihope> We'd have to invent a platform for it, of course.
02:04:30 <CakeProphet> Or we could just build it off of Python... and give it insane memory usage.
02:04:36 <ihope> We'd call it the G platform, and it would run G machine code compiled from G assembler.
02:05:08 <CakeProphet> But... but I wanted to call it Surrealomancerplexocitope.
02:05:11 <ihope> Since every program would be a virtual machine, every program would need to have an operating system built in.
02:05:22 <ihope> And G is just a... well, it's changeable.
02:05:54 <CakeProphet> I like the idea of setting "otpions" for the code itself before coding...
02:06:08 <ihope> Eh, lemme do this BRB thing that everybody's talking about.
02:06:19 <CakeProphet> Say you need dynamic typing and some object oriented for this task... then you could change some paramiters in the interpreter/compiler to make it run that way.
02:11:04 <CakeProphet> Oooh... Spaghetti sounds like a cool language.
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02:14:25 <ihope_> So typing wouldn't really be necessary.
02:14:33 <ihope_> I suppose we could make users implement it.
02:15:36 <ihope_> I guess the key here is to minimize reusability and make things hard to write in general.
02:16:02 * CakeProphet likes lack of structure, intuition-ish-ness, and ease-of-use in his code.
02:16:21 <ihope_> Then again, if we're to add everything to the language, we'd have to include reusability.
02:17:07 <ihope_> What's the goal here? Is it to make programs that are very nice and readable but necessarily huge?
02:17:31 <ihope_> You know... a very readable 100000-line "Hello, world!" program that actually requires 100000 lines.
02:18:36 <Razor-X> It has a lack of structure, intuition-ish-ness, and easy-of-use.
02:18:45 <CakeProphet> Screw readability.. I just like being lazy in a hugely complex environment.
02:18:49 <Razor-X> Plus it does not nessicarily have ease of reading.
02:19:40 <Razor-X> Yup. You can screw readability if you want.
02:20:11 <ihope_> Well, the goal here seems to be "to create the most memory using language in existence.... so needlessly complex and unstructured that it makes absolutely no sense."
02:20:26 <Razor-X> You mean Perl.... er hmmm. I need to think on that.
02:20:45 <ihope_> But absolutely not yucky, like Perl is :-)
02:20:45 <Razor-X> I think you mean a marriage between Perl and Java, actually.
02:21:03 <Razor-X> Memory hogging and complex and unstructured!
02:21:05 <ihope_> My passwords are all annoying to type ;-)
02:21:25 * Razor-X is enjoying something without all of you right now.
02:21:37 <ihope_> I gotta be gone in ten minutes, by the way.
02:21:40 <Razor-X> So uh, make sure to read the Esolang Contest wiki page.
02:22:09 <CakeProphet> Hmmm... I think binary is the most esoteric of languages.
02:22:25 <Razor-X> How can you program in binary?
02:22:36 <CakeProphet> But if it were a language... it would be esoteric :D
02:23:06 <CakeProphet> You don't code in binary... that's what makes it so esoteric.
02:23:44 <ihope_> Well, I've temporarily immortalized this goal of ours in my quit message.
02:23:49 <ihope_> And with that, I'm off.
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02:24:19 <Razor-X> *が始めます。静かになってくださいながら、私は楽みます。ありがとうございます皆さん。
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02:41:02 <CakeProphet> OOh I think... I understand now what I meant to say.
02:41:16 <CakeProphet> I meant extremly confusing to read... but extremly intuitive to type up.
03:02:45 <CakeProphet> Hmmm... I wonder what would happen if you mixed Perl with Python...
03:02:58 <CakeProphet> There's a lot of stuff I like in Python... but Perl's nifty as well... hmmm
03:05:10 <Razor-X> That's what you get when you mix Bush x Chamberlain goodness (aka English) with (Insart Horrible Thing).
03:08:49 <RodgerTheGreat> a thought occurs- what do you think about making a language whose semantics are based on the fact that aside from the first and last letter, randomizing word letters has minimal impact on comprehension?
03:09:38 <pikhq> It's not esoteric.
03:09:52 <pikhq> Computers were first programmed directly in binary.
03:10:15 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: T3h evil.
03:10:48 <Razor-X> How can you program in binary?!
03:10:56 <RodgerTheGreat> well, evil can be an excellent component of an esoteric language...
03:11:21 <pikhq> Razor-X: Same way the compiler generates bianries ("
03:11:31 <pikhq> I'm being loose with the term "binary")
03:11:31 <RodgerTheGreat> nobody programs in binary. When they do, they're really coding in binary-encoded hex. single 1's and 0's do nothing.
03:12:00 <Razor-X> pikhq: That's like saying Base-4 is a programming language.
03:13:03 * Razor-X gives CakeProphet a thumbs-up sign with her hitchiker's thumb.
03:13:21 <pikhq> Call me up when you write a friggin' OS in Dimensifuck.
03:15:45 <pikhq> It's not even Turing complete.
03:15:49 <pikhq> Maybe with Javascript.
03:16:04 * CakeProphet would fear the internet if HTML were Turing complete.
03:16:18 <CakeProphet> HTML isn't even a programming language to begin with... it was mostly a joke... :D
03:16:59 <pikhq> If Brainfuck is done in HTML, I'll eat one of Gregor's hats.
03:17:12 <GregorR> HTML isn't a programming language, it was never supposed to be a programming language, and you can't have one of my hats.
03:17:42 <pikhq> Just for that, the W3C is going to make HTML Turing complete. >_<
03:17:47 <RodgerTheGreat> you could probably make an "audience participation" interpreter with anchors and links...
03:18:20 <pikhq> That would prove the *person* Turing complete, not the language.
03:18:59 <pikhq> Imagine where we'd be if, instead of implementing if, we just had the computer display "(0 ==1): T/F".
03:19:36 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm just trying to think of any way in which pure HTML could be used to perform basic logic by itself.
03:20:36 <CakeProphet> And... I just remembered why I love coding in Python so much. ^_^
03:20:38 <pikhq> Brainfuck is more readable.
03:24:44 <GregorR> http://www.google.com/search?q=http+meta+refresh
03:25:37 <RodgerTheGreat> now, is there any way to extract form data and use it in *any* way with just HTML?
03:30:38 <RodgerTheGreat> if we could somehow store/retrieve data using forms and then create dynamic program flow using refresh meta tags, it might be possible to perform basic logic with HTML
03:34:34 <CakeProphet> @P=split//,".URRUU\c8R";@d=split//,"\nrekcah xinU / lreP rehtona tsuJ";sub p{
03:34:35 <CakeProphet> @p{"r$p","u$p"}=(P,P);pipe"r$p","u$p";++$p;($q*=2)+=$f=!fork;map{$P=$P[$f^ord
03:34:37 <CakeProphet> ($p{$_})&6];$p{$_}=/ ^$P/ix?$P:close$_}keys%p}p;p;p;p;p;map{$p{$_}=~/^[P.]/&&
03:34:38 <CakeProphet> close$_}%p;wait until$?;map{/^r/&&<$_>}%p;$_=$d[$q];sleep rand(2)if/\S/;print
03:35:33 <CakeProphet> It prints "Just another Perl / Unix hacker"
03:36:52 <pikhq> It shoulda been a Brainfuck interpreter, with the actual output code itself hidden in it.
03:37:43 <CakeProphet> I mean... I couldn't imagine thinking up that many steps to do that...
03:43:02 <CakeProphet> I think it's a pain in the ass to uh... program.
03:43:13 <Razor-X> Yeah it is a pain in the arse.
03:43:25 * CakeProphet likes Python cause he can be totally lazy with it.
03:44:54 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: What OS are you on?!?
03:45:32 <pikhq> GCC is *included* with OSX.
03:46:06 <RodgerTheGreat> by "compile", I mean make an actual, useful program, not build a console app.
03:46:47 <pikhq> My coding in OSX has been in Tcl.
03:47:09 <pikhq> Get yourself a decent OS.
03:47:19 <pikhq> Like, say, ProDOS.
03:47:44 <pikhq> But ProDOS is for Apple computers!
03:47:51 <pikhq> . . . The Apple II.
03:48:13 <pikhq> I have a recommendation, if you're that much of a DOS freak.
03:48:17 <pikhq> Ever heard of FreeDOS?
03:48:48 <RodgerTheGreat> who said I was a dos freak? I only own one computer capable of running DOS.
03:49:01 <Razor-X> Coding for X is a total pain in the ARSE.
03:49:11 <pikhq> Not with decent libraries.
03:49:22 <RodgerTheGreat> ... and I use that for running chipdisks and Outpost 2.
03:49:33 <Razor-X> You mean weak toolkits like GTK?
03:49:37 * pikhq counts things like "Python" and "Tcl" to be decent libraries :p
03:49:42 <Razor-X> Ever tried coding a window manager? (Or contributing to one?)
03:50:04 <pikhq> Hmm. You know, I should play around with the tclwm package. . .
03:50:12 <pikhq> Try coding a window manager with it.
03:51:44 <Razor-X> Good luck if you want to follow the ICCCM.
03:52:22 <Razor-X> It's worse than esoteric programming.
03:54:56 <pikhq> http://www.tcl.tk/cgi-bin/tct/tip/47.html
03:57:25 <RodgerTheGreat> esoteric programming isn't usually that hard, really, once you wrap your brain around a language. A lot of it is just tedious work and being extremely careful with your code.
03:58:39 <pikhq> Malbolge is the exception.
03:58:59 <pikhq> Wrapping your brain around it gets you sent to the mental institution fairly quickly.
04:00:59 <RodgerTheGreat> but it becomes fairly normal once you peel back the obfuscation/encryption layers.
04:01:18 <RodgerTheGreat> it's one of the languages that almost nobody can use without making some tools first.
04:01:21 <pikhq> But then it's not Malbolge.
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11:40:36 <fizzie> 13:38:01 < asiekierka> 13:37 in poland!
11:40:55 <fizzie> "My time zone seems to be different by a minute."
12:06:42 <asiekierka> so your timezone is different by HOUR+MINUTE.
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12:08:34 <fizzie> I still think there's just a minute between 13:37 and 13:38, but...
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13:40:41 <ihope> 15 ops, 7 non-ops...
13:45:05 <fizzie> There are ops? How strange.
13:50:55 <ihope> I don't suppose you'd want to op us all...
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14:48:09 <nooga> i'm currently learning norsk
14:53:42 <nooga> heh, i've just discovered > http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Computing_department
14:59:48 -!- ihope has set channel mode: +oo nooga RodgerTheGreat.
15:00:14 <ihope> Would "norsk" be Norwegian?
15:05:53 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokm%C3%A5l
15:06:58 <nooga> there's also nynorsk
15:07:19 <ihope> "The plural is written with the letter s regardless of whether it is pronounced as an [s], as in cats, or as a [z], as in dogs." <- oh boy, English just got much more complicated
15:08:37 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nynorsk
15:29:56 <nooga> it's 16:29 here ;p
15:31:13 <nooga> i'm trying to think of use XNL2 as scripting language
15:33:44 <nooga> http://regedit.gamedev.pl/produkcje/biblioteki/XNL2/xnl2.html < unfortunately, it's only in polish
15:34:38 <nooga> it's an universal description language
15:35:00 <ihope> "Pomiędzy myślą w głowie człowieka, a sygnałem w elektronice komputera, pomiędzy obrazami w naszej wyobraźni a liczbami w jego pamięci, tekst jest najdoskonalszą formą komunikacji człowieka z maszyną."
15:35:31 <nooga> it's inspired by: INI, INF, RC, binary, XML, X, C++, script languages, HTML, TXT & DAT
15:35:33 <ihope> Something something something something something something something something electronic computer?
15:36:21 <nooga> maszyna -> machine
15:37:37 <nooga> elektronice komputera (elektronika komputera) -> computer's electronics
15:38:05 <ihope> "Polish is the main representative of the Lechitic branch of the West Slavic languages."
15:38:21 <ihope> "The West Slavic languages is a subdivision of the Slavic language group."
15:39:01 <ihope> "The Slavic languages [are] a subgroup of Indo-European languages."
15:39:17 <ihope> Okay, so Polish and English are both Indo-European.
15:40:46 <nooga> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish
15:41:09 <ihope> But I'm learning Chinese today.
15:41:13 <RodgerTheGreat> man, I wish I could just stuff the contents of wikipedia into my skull..
15:41:17 <ihope> I'll learn Polish tomorrow.
15:42:16 <ihope> Then again, I doubt Chinese is Indo-European.
15:43:06 <ihope> Actually, I'll learn Norwegian today.
15:43:10 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language
15:43:48 <ihope> It's not Slavic or anything; it's Germanic.
15:44:09 <nooga> vil du laere norsk?
15:45:27 <ihope> Yeah, I think I will.
15:45:49 <ihope> (That was "will you learn Norwegian", right?)
15:45:57 <nooga> jeg sa ikke det :>
15:46:52 <nooga> bokmal has many similarities with english
15:47:23 <nooga> and that's right, that was "will you learn Norwegian"
15:47:40 <ihope> Okay, I can type Bokmål >:-)
15:48:25 <ihope> å = AltGr+w, æ = AltGr+z, ø = AltGr + l.
15:49:28 <ihope> How to type Norwegian.
15:49:57 <nooga> funno, i use chartable
15:50:27 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belizean_Kriol_language << lol
15:51:15 <nooga> sounds like straight from ghetto
15:51:58 <nooga> frigg/friggin - to swear (like f***) example "what di frigg? or "oh frigg" COOL!
15:52:11 <ihope> "I deh eena wah car!"
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16:09:55 <GregorR-W> Note to self: #estoeric != #esoteric
16:10:11 <GregorR-W> Gee. This channel is awfully op-y.
16:10:14 -!- ihope has set channel mode: +o GregorR-W.
16:10:50 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo bsmntbombdood clog cmeme CXI.
16:10:51 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo EgoBot fizzie GregorR ihope.
16:10:53 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo ivan` lament lindi- mtve.
16:10:55 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo pgimeno pikhq puzzlet Razor-X.
16:10:56 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo RodgerTheAfk sekhmet SimonRC sp3tt.
16:10:58 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oo tgwizard tokigun.
16:11:13 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie.
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16:11:32 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +oooo lament SimonRC puzzlet ihope.
16:11:32 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +oooo mtve Razor-X tokigun bsmntbombdood.
16:11:32 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +oooo GregorR clog sekhmet GregorR-W.
16:11:32 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +oooo pikhq tgwizard EgoBot sp3tt.
16:11:32 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +oooo RodgerTheAfk lindi- cmeme CXI.
16:11:34 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +oo pgimeno ivan`.
16:11:43 <fizzie> At least there's some action.
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16:12:11 -!- ihope has set channel mode: +vvv EgoBot GregorR GregorR-W.
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16:12:40 <Razor-X> That was an awesome display of my op powers.
16:12:53 -!- ihope has set channel mode: +v ihope.
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16:17:50 <kipple> what's with all the ops??
16:18:05 -!- ihope has set channel mode: +oo kipple Razor-X.
16:18:31 -!- ihope has set channel mode: -vvv EgoBot GregorR GregorR-W.
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17:17:46 <RodgerTheGreat> the logs looked like you and gregor had a faceoff of some kind.
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17:20:16 <ihope> He deopped everything, then... well, it was a joke and all that :-)
17:20:29 <ihope> And that's why the GregorRs are the only ones not opped.
17:21:10 -!- pikhq has set channel mode: +oo GregorR-W GregorR-W.
17:21:23 <pikhq> EgoBot deserveth no ops.
17:21:35 <ihope> Congrats, you opped one nick twice at the same time.
17:21:52 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo bsmntbombdood clog cmeme CXI.
17:21:53 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo fizzie ihope ivan` kipple.
17:21:55 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo lament lindi- mtve pgimeno.
17:21:57 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo pikhq puzzlet Razor-X RodgerTheAfk.
17:21:57 <RodgerTheGreat> in one of the other channels I frequent, the guy who registered the channel kickbanned chanserv and then deopped, so now nobody has them.
17:21:58 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oooo RodgerTheGreat sekhmet SimonRC sp3tt.
17:22:00 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -oo tgwizard tokigun.
17:22:03 -!- GregorR-W has set channel mode: -o GregorR-W.
17:22:26 <GregorR-W> You can't ban ChanServ ... at least not on FreeNode.
17:23:04 <ihope> Let's not give pikhq ops either, eh? :-P
17:23:16 <GregorR-W> Lesson learned: Don't give GregorR ops.
17:23:17 <pikhq> Fine. That was stupid of me.
17:23:49 * sekhmet wonders how he acquired ops in the first place
17:24:03 <ihope> =-= Mode #esoteric +oo ivan` sekhmet by ihope
17:24:17 <ivan`> that's interesting
17:24:18 -!- ChanServ has left (?).
17:24:29 * sekhmet totally contributes to this channel
17:24:32 <ihope> And before that, =-= Mode #esoteric +oooo bsmntbombdood GregorR ihope ivan` by fizzie
17:24:54 <ihope> (Quick! Somebody self-op and ban ChanServ!)
17:25:54 <ihope> Did some secret hidden access level 30 guy turn off GUARD?
17:26:01 <ihope> 's still in ##quantum.
17:26:37 <GregorR-W> Y'know ihope, if you drop your +v, this channel will be pure.
17:26:39 <Razor-X> You can't ban ChanServ on FreeNode?
17:26:45 <Razor-X> How do I know this? I've tried ;).
17:26:52 -!- ihope has left (?).
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17:27:00 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: Apparently you don't know that, since you asked it as a question.
17:27:20 <Razor-X> Gah. Question marks destroy me once more.
17:30:44 <RodgerTheGreat> so... do we have a current consensus on the format of the coding competition?
17:30:53 <ivan`> i want chanserv commands in brainfuck
17:30:59 <lament> It will be a beauty pageant.
17:31:09 <lament> Participants are required to be naked and female.
17:31:37 <GregorR-W> Well that reduces it to either 0 or 1 participant.
17:32:28 <GregorR-W> Well, lament didn't mention pics, so we'd have no way of denying if you lie about it :P
17:32:28 <Razor-X> So are we going to go for a challenge style vote then?
17:32:38 <ihope> Oh, Razor-X, somebody asked yesterday if by "instead the committee will decide on a set of tasks", you meant "instead the contestants will decide on a set of tasks".
17:33:02 <Razor-X> If the contestants choose, doesen't it sort of defeat the purpose?
17:33:22 <lament> I choose that we program this thing i came up with yesterday and didn't tell anybody about!
17:33:26 <ihope> So the committee presents tasks instead of challenges?
17:33:54 <Razor-X> Well, the vote was on whether the commitee will create a pool of tasks for anyone to choose or whether it will create tasks for each category.
17:34:24 <ihope> You might want to make that more clear, then...
17:34:35 <ihope> And yeah, I'd go for the pool.
17:35:08 <Razor-X> With the exception of lament who wanted a pool loop ploop, it's unanimous.
17:35:13 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: I'm not voting.
17:35:47 <Razor-X> I'll change the Wiki entry then.
17:40:41 <ihope> In private, I assume...
17:40:49 <ihope> ...or did Razor-X just finish?
17:41:02 <Razor-X> I just finished with the changes to the Wiki page.
17:41:12 <Razor-X> I think we should select a date first, though.
17:41:40 <Razor-X> Contestants here: What would you like as a nice date to compete in?
17:42:49 <RodgerTheGreat> people should probably have at least two weeks or so to make their entries.
17:43:39 <Razor-X> Yeah, I was thinking that too.
17:44:05 <Razor-X> How about we hold another day-long vote.
17:44:41 <ihope> That last vote was more like five minutes.
17:44:55 <ihope> It only started when you told us just what it was we were voting on.
17:45:10 <Razor-X> Well time is something I hope that's more involved.
17:45:16 <Razor-X> Since some of you may have lives.
17:45:25 <RodgerTheGreat> while most of the committee is here, we should just try to decide on some of the specifics right now.
17:45:54 <Razor-X> If I ping out again, it's because my compilation began stealing precedence over network connections.
17:57:48 <ihope> ...Well, I suddenly figured out Dirac notation.
17:58:16 <lament> ihope: it's all about underwear
17:58:55 <ihope> Does |1><-| look like underwear to you?
17:59:23 <lament> ihope: explain it your way, then!
18:00:23 <ihope> Bras are recievers and kets are senders.
18:00:53 <ihope> |1><0| recieves 0 and uses the recieved stuff to send 1.
18:01:12 <ihope> Likewise, <0|1> sends 1 straight into a reciever for 0.
18:01:42 <lament> that does NOT make a lot of sense yet :(
18:03:16 <ihope> |0> sends 0 with an amplitude of 1, 2|0> sends it with an amplitude of 2, |0>/2 sends it with an amplitude of 1/2, etc.
18:03:42 <ihope> |1> is like |0>, except that it sends 1 instead of 0, eh?
18:04:45 <ihope> <0| is a reciever for 0: <0|x is the amplitude x is sending 0 at.
18:06:23 <ihope> Then something like |0><1| is both a sender and a reciever: it sends 0 at the amplitude that it recieves 1 at.
18:07:02 <ihope> So if we call that S, then S|1> is |0>, S2|1> is 2|0>, etc.
18:08:37 <ihope> And S|0>, S|0>/3, S300|0>, and all the other stuff that you can do will result simply in 0: it's not sending anything, because it's not recieving 1.
18:09:44 <ihope> You can add senders together: |0> + |1> sends both 0 and 1 with an amplitude of 1.
18:10:36 <ihope> You can also add recievers together, so <0| + <1| will recieve both 0 and 1.
18:11:17 <ihope> (<0| + <1|)|0> is <0|0> + <1|0>. <0|0> is 1 and <1|0> is 0, so that's 1+0, or 1.
18:13:05 <ihope> You can multiply recievers by numbers: 2<0| recieves 0 and gives you twice the amplitude. That's just like multiplying senders by numbers: as I said, 2|0> sends 0 at twice the amplitude that |0> sends it at.
18:14:07 <lament> So (|1><0| + |0><1|) is a NOT gate?
18:14:47 <ihope> And you can send and recieve other things, so you can have things like |true> and <25|.
18:17:33 <lament> I keep forgetting which one's the receiver and which one's the sender.
18:19:58 <ihope> Well, I think you'll tend to see senders more often than you see recievers.
18:20:21 <ihope> Quantum states are senders, for example.
18:20:39 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
18:21:01 <lament> since that's a list of numbers
18:21:11 <ihope> Well, there's one: (|01> + |11>)/2.
18:21:12 <lament> |00> should be a <00| ?
18:21:30 <ihope> |Sender>, <reciever|.
18:21:48 <lament> running qbf results in some state |S>
18:22:00 <lament> now we're displaying the state
18:22:06 <lament> in particular <00|S> = 0
18:22:24 <lament> so egobot should say <00| instead of |00> ?
18:23:53 <ihope> Unless you want to say <00|S> = 0; <01|S> = 0; <10|S> = .5, <11|S> = .5 instead of |S> = 0|00> + 0|01> + .5|10> + .5|11>.
18:24:38 <lament> thank you ihope, you're much better at this than my quantum mechanics prof :)
18:31:02 <ihope> ...So you have a quantum mechanics professor?
18:33:26 <lament> he was unbelievably smart
18:33:34 <lament> and absolutely incomprehensible
18:33:45 <lament> the guy has his own wikipedia article
18:34:03 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_effect
18:35:00 <lament> sadly, he thought his students were as smart as hew as
18:35:13 <lament> which was plainly not the case
18:38:45 <ihope> He was Bill Unruh, you mean?
18:41:42 <lament> one of the old-school guys
18:42:16 <lament> except more fat and jolly
18:42:25 <lament> RodgerTheGreat: um, it's a hundred years old?
18:42:52 <RodgerTheGreat> *but*, it's one of the hottest topics in physics these days.
18:43:55 <lament> unruh himself is working on quantum gravity
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19:37:13 <ihope> It is written in the Book of G: "G-Machine: a functional machine code coupled with a quantum cellular automata based on three-dimensional aperiodic tilings".
19:38:37 <ihope> Actually, scratch the three-dimensional.
19:38:39 <Razor-X> It's not the programming that makes you a good programmer, it's the buzzwords.
19:38:50 <ihope> We just need to come up with a good aperiodic tiling.
19:39:14 <Razor-X> Since in the end, no-one thinks you're smart (no matter how smart you are) until you begin using a whole bunch of incomprehensible words and Greek letters as variables.
19:39:40 <Razor-X> If you want to be *really* smart (like Cantor) you can use Hebrew variables too.
19:43:55 <lament> Or you could just be jewish
19:58:45 -!- RodgerTheAfk has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat.
19:59:27 <ihope> You know, I think we're drifting from the point.
20:00:35 <ihope> What we need is a huge number of high-level commands that have to be elaborately pieced together to create low-level ones.
20:01:48 <GregorR-W> Stuff that takes a ridiculous number of variables and passes them through an intricate, complex function, but with nothing as simple as addition. So, to emulate addition, you'd have to find a combo of complicated functions that just so happen to have addition as a side-effect.
20:14:52 <ihope> That takes a ridiculous number of variables and passes them through an intricate, complex function?
20:16:16 <lament> Intercal had the greatest operators ever.
20:16:50 <RodgerTheGreat> well, when I was thinking of a really complex single operation, it brings OISC to mind.
20:20:12 <Razor-X> Well, INTERCAL also has very few operators.
20:20:19 <Razor-X> Two binary operators and three unary operators.
20:20:57 <Razor-X> ~ is the easiest of all the operators, IMO.
20:21:15 <Razor-X> Maybe some day I'll feel like finishing my BF interpreter in INTERCAL.
20:21:43 <Razor-X> I made a cell array and got it to recognize + and increment the array location.
20:21:47 <Razor-X> After that, the rest was trivial.
20:24:06 <Razor-X> It's easy to make while loops in INTERCAL if you know how.
20:24:52 <RodgerTheGreat> in all my BF interpreters, [ and ] make up a good third to half of my code.
20:24:55 <Razor-X> while (currchar == '[') loop_on = 1;
20:25:19 <Razor-X> Use loop_on to do the checks when you get to ']'.
20:25:34 <Razor-X> It's more tedious than anything else.
20:26:02 <Razor-X> I should make a BF compiler in sed :P.
20:26:46 <Razor-X> Might I have suggested pastebin?
20:27:31 <Razor-X> Yeah, I can do that in INTERCAL with a few (10 or more I'd bet) COME FROM statements.
20:41:20 * ihope creates an empty text file, renames it to a command file, and runs it
20:44:34 * ihope creates an empty text file, puts the string MZ in it, renames it to a command file, and runs it
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21:21:51 <ihope> So what happened to half-ops?
21:22:11 * ihope decides that'd be better in ##help-unofficial
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21:51:48 <lament> what's the point of ##brainfuck again
21:52:07 <lament> does it actually generate enough traffic to require a separate channel?
21:52:50 <GregorR-W> lament: It's mostly a trap for people who autotype /join #<language-I'm-using>
21:54:29 <ihope> Why not redirect it here, then?
21:54:42 <GregorR-W> Because then it forms an idiot-filter too ;)
21:55:02 <lament> you might be right.......
21:55:25 <GregorR-W> People come into ##brainfuck saying "<VelocityKendo>Hi everyone ! Can someone hep me to translate a source code written in BrainF to a text, like abcd etc ??"
21:55:31 <GregorR-W> And then don't get redirected here X-P
21:55:46 <lament> actually i told him to come here earlier (when he asked the same question in ##C)
21:56:06 <lament> but he chose ##brainfuck, which on the whole i guess is a good thing.
21:56:14 <lament> do random people actually join it?
21:56:35 <pikhq> I came into it a while back. . .
21:56:43 * lament stays in ##brainfuck for entertainment value
21:56:59 <GregorR-W> IIRC, pikhq came here through ##brainfuck
21:57:00 <pikhq> Fortunately, I came into it looking to discuss my Brainfuck compiler, so I was proven at least not entirely stupid. ;)
21:57:13 <ihope> There. Now ##redirect-to-esoteric redirects to #esoteric.
21:58:33 <GregorR-W> In short: The purpose for ##brainfuck's existance is an idiot filter :P
21:58:35 <ihope> Of course, you can still join it with an invite or +I.
22:01:16 <ihope> There. Now ##redirect-to-random-channel should redirect to #random-channel if and only if your name contains the string "GregorR".
22:02:08 * ihope tries redirecting two channels into each other
22:02:38 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
22:03:20 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
22:03:30 <ihope> There, now #redirect-1 and #redirect-2 should redirect into each other.
22:03:52 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:04:07 <GregorR-W> ===#redirect-1 #redirect-2 Forwarding to another channel
22:04:09 <GregorR-W> ===#redirect-2 #redirect-1 Forwarding to another channel
22:04:11 <GregorR-W> ===#redirect-1 #redirect-2 Forwarding to another channel
22:05:38 * ihope changes ##redirect-to-random-channel to point at either #redirect-1 or #redirect-2, depending on how the server feels
22:07:00 <lament> so ##brainfuck, unlike #esoteric, does not actually have a brainfuck interpreter?
22:07:14 <GregorR-W> Too lazy to throw EgoBot in there.
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22:13:25 <ihope> ```si`k``s.H``s.e``s.l``s.l``s.o``s. ``s.w``s.o``s.r``s.l``s.d``s.!``sri``si``si``si``si``si``si``si``si`ki <- why?
22:15:47 <ihope> !unlambda ``````````````.H.e.l.l.o.,. .w.o.r.l.d.!ri
22:16:17 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon cat reload
22:16:19 <EgoBot> 2 EgoBot: daemon EgoBot reload
22:25:28 <ihope> Unlambda needs a "create character comparison" function.
22:25:48 <ihope> It'd put the current character into a ? function.
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