00:01:04 <Razor-X> Yeah I feel oddly motivated this year, and 4 AP classes puts a lot of work.
00:02:02 <Razor-X> Well, all I really have is US history homework left (2 large worksheets), but I also want to get started on some of next week's math homework and I might start on some of next week's Physics homework, depending on my mood.
00:02:40 <Razor-X> And vocab is typically a 3 hour affair per day, heh.
00:04:23 <ihope_> Why can't you do a real response thing, then?
00:05:53 <ihope_> NOTICE ihope :^AVERSION RawIRC^A
00:09:48 <pikhq> ifndef_GREGOR_H: The IRC spec states that a PRIVMSG isn't to be used for automated replies; that's the job of NOTICE.
00:09:55 <pikhq> CTCP follows that spec.
00:12:30 * pikhq makes out with his macro language
00:12:53 <pikhq> Mmm. Technophilia.
00:13:17 <pikhq> And, since I made it, it's also incest. :p
00:13:27 <pikhq> Technophilic incest. Whee.
00:14:50 <ihope_> Hmm, it seems I was wrong or something.
00:15:17 <ihope_> [ifndef_GREGOR_H] [\0x01]VERSION RawIRC[\0x01]
00:15:33 <ihope_> ...Did you send that to the channel?
00:15:44 <ifndef_GREGOR_H> I sent one to the channel just to see what clients would do ;)
00:15:54 <pikhq> 17:06 CTCP VERSION reply from ifndef_GREGOR_H in channel #esoteric: RawIRC
00:15:58 <pikhq> That's what I got.
00:16:29 <pikhq> PRIVMSG looks better.
00:16:58 <ihope_> In this ChatZilla theme thing, it's red and bold rather than plain black.
00:17:19 <ihope_> And there's [] around the nick instead of <>.
00:17:28 <ihope_> Other than that, it's all the same.
00:20:19 <Razor-X> It looks quite similar to a PRIVMSG in ERC.
00:20:27 <Razor-X> -ihope_- Eh, why doesn't everybody use NOTICE instead of PRIVMSG? <pikhq> PRIVMSG looks better.
00:20:42 * pikhq writes a standard macros better
00:20:56 <pikhq> My brain isn't working.
00:20:57 <Razor-X> I'll read your spec now, and then go to homework pikhq.
00:21:09 * pikhq is writing a standard set of macros for the language
00:23:15 <Razor-X> .... Incomprehensible spec pikhq :D.
00:23:22 <Razor-X> What are you comparing the spec to?
00:23:35 <Razor-X> For these sorts of things I prefer a straight-up BNF or ABNF.
00:24:12 <Razor-X> Backus-Naur Format. Augmented Backus-Naur Format.
00:24:36 <pikhq> Don't know it, sorry.
00:24:49 <Razor-X> You've *never* seen a BNF?!
00:25:05 <Razor-X> They're quite readable for human beings and somewhat easy to parse, which is why I love them, but wow.
00:26:32 <Razor-X> Most RFCs use either BNF or ABNF.
00:27:42 <pikhq> I assume you'd like me to actually write one for you?
00:28:59 <pikhq> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms I'm going to rewrite some of these into this macro language first.
00:29:32 <Razor-X> And I think you're reinventing the wheel too, IIRC.
00:29:41 <Razor-X> Take a look at BFA. Although that's a bit different.
00:31:03 <Razor-X> Gah. I can't believe I haven't bookmarked this... time to do some creative google searching.
00:31:48 <Razor-X> And quite thoroughly, IIRC.
00:32:13 <Razor-X> http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/utils/bfcomp-0.09/
00:32:39 <pikhq> I took some inspiration from that, actually.
00:32:48 <Razor-X> What's the logistic difference here?
00:32:50 <ifndef_GREGOR_H> That seems significantly more advanced than pikhq is aiming for.
00:33:00 <Razor-X> Or is it just a reimplementation of BFA?
00:33:03 <pikhq> Mine is much lower level.
00:33:25 <pikhq> It's in between the BFC and BFA of the bfcomp language. . .
00:34:17 <pikhq> My main issues with that was that it was a bit inefficient, because it was too high-level to allow the programmer to have much control over the resulting Brainfuck code.
00:35:00 <Razor-X> I'll think about writing a Scheme (this format)->BF compiler.
00:35:02 <ifndef_GREGOR_H> (IMHO this could all be done with the C preprocessor, but anyway :P )
00:35:02 <pikhq> Actually, yeah. That's what it is.
00:35:25 <pikhq> ifndef_GREGOR_H: Yeah, but the C preprocessor implementation, which you've done, is fugly.
00:35:49 <pikhq> This is nice and clean, IMO.
00:36:11 -!- ifndef_GREGOR_H has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:36:21 <GregorR> That was ^C you f***ing idiot >_<
00:36:38 <Razor-X> Sounds like RawIRC is quite the intuitive client.
00:36:51 <GregorR> The only ctrl chars used are P, O, and A.
00:36:53 <Razor-X> Does it keep a persistent line below the telnet traffic?
00:37:05 -!- ifndef_GREGOR_H has joined.
00:37:05 <pikhq> Razor-X: Among other things, that compiler has the idea of scope. Mine has just a global scope. . .
00:37:09 <pikhq> ifndef_GREGOR_H: Bravo.
00:37:25 <Razor-X> Did you use Ncurses or simple terminal control characters?
00:37:38 <ifndef_GREGOR_H> Simple terminal control. Nowhere near advanced enough to need *curses ;)
00:38:07 <Razor-X> I know more about *curses than about terminal control characters :P.
00:39:57 <pikhq> If I get bored enough, I'll implement the macro language in itself. :p
00:41:16 <Razor-X> I'm debating on whether to port ERC to Scheme or not.
00:41:47 <Razor-X> But I'll add ``features'' to it.
00:42:07 <Razor-X> That's why they're ``features''.
00:42:42 <Razor-X> Nah, I won't be adding much. A Scheme shell, and maybe a macro or two, and an RC file for you to define your own macros.
00:42:56 <ifndef_GREGOR_H> Basically, you could pass in a number of scripts, and it would fork them off and feed the raw IRC traffic into them as well :P
00:43:16 <ihope_> If God wanted Man to use `` and '', He wouldn't have invented " :-P
00:43:30 <ifndef_GREGOR_H> IF ENGLISH IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR JESUS, IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR TEXAS
00:43:36 <Razor-X> God can go and worship Donald Knuth.
00:43:54 <ihope_> ifndef_GREGOR_H: so English isn't good enough for Texas?
00:43:58 <Razor-X> Of course, you could use Scheme's power to turn RawIRC into a *real* IRC client, but heaven forbid what drives you to use RawIRC in the first place then.
00:56:54 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
00:59:16 <GreyKnight> Real men write bits directly onto the ethernet cable with their penis.
01:03:59 <GreyKnight> I think he tried it and... electrocuted himself
01:04:42 -!- ihope__ has joined.
01:08:22 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope.
01:13:22 <pikhq> Now, this thing, as it stands right now, makes very efficient use of the Brainfuck memory. . .
01:14:13 <ihope> Well, I think I can call this current EagleBot... what? Version 2?
01:14:23 -!- kipple_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:14:48 <ihope> Version 1 sucked, version 2 isn't as nice either, and I'll write version 3 tomorrow.
01:16:02 <pikhq> Now, if I could just implement it, I'd have something here.
01:16:56 <ihope> Memo the spec to me and I'll take a look at it...
01:17:41 <pikhq> That makes two people that have said basically the same thing. x_x
01:18:01 <ihope> Who was the other one?
01:18:13 <ihope> Did you memo it to her?
01:18:50 <ihope> Well, memo it to me, or else I'll memo it to myself!
01:19:03 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/160055
01:19:04 * ihope holds his finger over the "enter" key as if it were a suicide threat
01:19:31 * ihope memos the URL to himself
01:20:09 <ihope> Shut up, or I'll memo it to you too!
01:21:19 * ihope memos it to EgoBot
01:22:40 <pikhq> Screw it. I'll write bits and pieces of it myself.
01:23:37 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out).
01:25:56 <GreyKnight> Someone yanked him away by the iron chain
01:27:14 -!- ihope_ has joined.
01:27:28 <ihope> EagleBot v2 makes a half-decent alternative.
01:27:50 * ihope waits for an answer
01:28:13 * ihope gives up and goes to bed
01:59:46 * pikhq has almost finished one stage of this compiler
02:23:08 <pikhq> Got a stage of the compiler done.
02:26:01 <pikhq> My macro language. . .
02:26:18 <pikhq> Although this is the stage *after* macros have been expanded, so. . .
02:26:25 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/160055
02:31:24 <pikhq> Just need to expand the macros, and I'll be *done*.
02:40:47 <Razor-X> Ahoy there me hearties and pokers.
02:41:07 <pikhq> And I don't wanna do it!!!
02:42:16 <Razor-X> GreyKnight: How's been your experience with Compressed English?
02:43:29 <Razor-X> Any more digraphs you think we should add? Changes? I need to formalize some table syntax and then I have to look into the math syntax.
02:43:48 <Razor-X> I was also thinking of introducing trigraphs, but I need a more convenient system of characters that's supported by TeX.
02:44:26 <GreyKnight> The word INTERCAL currently compresses pretty poorly
02:44:51 <Razor-X> It should be condensed to 5 characters.
02:45:04 <GreyKnight> except for the +s to denote the capitals.
02:45:18 <Razor-X> Does that need to be explicit?
02:45:24 <GreyKnight> I suggest a +[...] syntax for multiple capitalizations
02:45:48 <Razor-X> I see the use in that. I agree.
02:45:58 <GreyKnight> maybe not for this example (at least when translated by a human), but there are probably situations where there'd be confusion
02:46:21 <Razor-X> I was thinking of adding the polygraph ``ough''.
02:46:55 <GreyKnight> I have most of a UTF-8 encoder written
02:47:09 <Razor-X> I need to code a LaTeX converter.
02:47:39 <Razor-X> I was also thinking of adding in ``ow'' as a digraph. Any other suggestions? Any characters you'd consider usable? (Preferrably from the LaTeX symbols list.)
02:47:46 <GreyKnight> I used my suggestion of dot-diaresis => colon, dot-macron => question mark
02:48:12 <Razor-X> I'll add that into my standard then.
02:48:18 <GreyKnight> although I don't think you ever actually endorsed that :-P
02:49:56 <GreyKnight> It occurred to me that we could reduce a/an to a single form, but there are actually some odd situations with it ("a hotel" vs "an hotel", depending). Thoughts?
02:51:15 <Razor-X> I think that it should be used.
02:51:55 <Razor-X> We can add a character to be `a', and accented it becomes ``an''.
02:54:21 <Razor-X> This may get confusing but, you know how a dot up top repeats the vowel after the consonant if a vowel is on top of a consonant?
02:54:32 <Razor-X> I suggest adding an underdot to repeat the consonant instead of the vowel.
02:55:30 <GreyKnight> I was assuming vowels never received repeats and that "consonant-vowelsign-overdot" meant "consonant consonant vowel"
02:55:54 <Razor-X> No, it meant consonant vowel vowel.
02:56:07 <GreyKnight> if you had a double vowel you'd use the floating-vowel symbol
02:56:26 <Razor-X> But how would you add the double vowel symbol to an accent?
02:57:03 <GreyKnight> I mean, for instance, "feel" becomes "f-acute, hypen-acute, l"
02:57:26 <GreyKnight> whereas "butter" becomes "b-grave,t-acute-overdot,r"
03:01:27 <Razor-X> Why not use an underdot or an ``arc'' to distinguish between repeating vowels and consonants?
03:02:22 <GreyKnight> well, the top is getting pretty cluttered, so underdot sounds best
03:03:11 <GreyKnight> so underdot repeats the consonant, then?
03:04:20 <GreyKnight> I'll add in vowel repeats later, that'll require a larger change
03:08:07 <GreyKnight> oh, how to deal with the situation where the letters of a digraph have different cases? For instance, my encoder currently converts both "Church" and "CHurch" to "μrμ", but this destroys information about the original
03:09:47 <Razor-X> Hmmm.... that's a thought I didn't think of.
03:10:31 <GreyKnight> Which only gets worse with trigraphs and beyond :-o
03:10:43 <Razor-X> Yeah, I was thinking of a general form of capitalization.
03:10:47 <GreyKnight> what about multiple capitalization operators?
03:11:58 <GreyKnight> well, some of those can be dropped if you know what the "expected" case is, but you get the idea
03:11:59 <Razor-X> I'm thinking for an n-graph, you can specify general capitalization like \+\+\\+ ... \ containing n amount of \, where a + denotes a capitalized letter.
03:12:34 <Razor-X> Rather, n+2 amount of \'s.
03:12:48 <Razor-X> Since you have the preceding and terminating \ here to denote the general capitalization form.
03:13:06 <Razor-X> Unless you want to drop the preceding one for conciseness.....
03:13:16 <Razor-X> Well, how often do you need general capitalization forms? :P.
03:13:45 <Razor-X> Unless we want to define a repetition operator which works on language constructs and letters.
03:14:00 <Razor-X> Other than the in-place cedilla.
03:14:37 <GreyKnight> I think that'd interrupt the flow in handwritten texts
03:15:54 <Razor-X> What performs the in-place repetitions then?
03:16:18 <GreyKnight> overdot and underdot (vowel and consonant, respectively)
03:18:15 <pikhq> One bit of my compiler that *is* broken.
03:18:30 <pikhq> The part about variable expansion, specifically.
03:18:49 <Razor-X> Mmmm... I think I need to at the very least add in a digraph for -sh.
03:19:30 <Razor-X> Time to take one more look at the Greek alphabet.....
03:19:42 <GreyKnight> I think I already recommended that :-P
03:20:49 <GreyKnight> though I guess it's potentially confusable with 's' in handwritten text
03:20:51 <Razor-X> Wouldn't that look too much like `s' though?
03:21:57 <Razor-X> Isn't it confusable with Epsilon?
03:22:44 <GreyKnight> the top hook and the tail should be pretty prominent
03:23:20 <GreyKnight> isn't that... what we were just talking about?
03:24:58 <GreyKnight> writing it will be an unusual experience for non-Greek non-mathematicians, though :-)
03:25:29 <Razor-X> Look, if a high schooler can come up with it, others can write in it.
03:25:44 <GreyKnight> try writing it; it's a strange experience for an English-speaker
03:25:56 <Razor-X> Trust me, it's easier to write it than TeX it.
03:26:04 <GreyKnight> it doesn't really have the same "flow" as Latin letters
03:26:23 <Razor-X> I find it lends itself to handwriting pretty well.
03:27:51 <Razor-X> You haven't tried handwriting it yet?
03:29:45 <Razor-X> It seems to work pretty well, even though it was initially a smattering of ``Oooh! TeX has this symbol!''.
03:31:27 <GreyKnight> I think I'll have this encoder have an option to use the precomposed character if one is available; composition characters are great for general-purpose stuff, but they tend to be put together badly on proportional fonts, at least in most software
03:31:50 <GreyKnight> even monospaced fonts suffer if you try to put too many in one cell
03:40:12 <Razor-X> Remember, umulat-fullstop now represents `,' .
03:41:32 <GreyKnight> last I heard you were using ring for that and umlaut (==diaresis) for colon :-\
03:42:06 <Razor-X> Oh wait, an umulaut is a diaresis?
03:42:14 <Razor-X> I may be getting the two confused then.
03:42:27 <Razor-X> Which one is the double-dot up top?
03:42:44 <GreyKnight> technically they're different, but the difference is only in the distance between the dots, so they're generally identical
03:43:07 <GreyKnight> they both consist of a horizontal pair of dots above the letter
03:43:08 <Razor-X> Then what was the downward-curve thing?
03:45:40 <Razor-X> A comma stays ring-fullstop then.
03:45:46 <GreyKnight> (at least when it's on top; I don't know if an "underbreve" is used anywhere or if it has a special name)
03:48:17 <Razor-X> What do you have down as -nt? Hyphen-ring?
03:51:28 <GreyKnight> eh? I have hyphen as the "floating vowel" character
03:52:04 <Razor-X> That was a stupid mistake on me not erasing old things.
03:52:26 <GreyKnight> you were thinking about n-tilde for NT at one point, I think
05:09:04 -!- anonfunc has joined.
05:17:42 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:18:01 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out).
06:19:46 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
06:33:22 -!- pikhq has changed nick to rms.
06:33:33 -!- rms has changed nick to pikhq.
06:34:20 <pikhq> It made sense in #gnu.
06:58:48 * GregorR wonders why he isn't in #gnu
07:01:35 <fizzie> Because it's Not Unix?
07:02:48 * pikhq starts wishing he had a Thinkpad laptop. . .
07:03:21 <pikhq> Those things are built to look like you could beat the fuck out of someone for their stupidity with one, and then demonstrate to them the smart way to do it. . . :p
07:05:05 <fizzie> My work-laptop is a Thinkpad.
07:05:46 <fizzie> The only fancy thing about it is the fingerprint reader thing.
07:06:57 <pikhq> [[Ratpoison]] Wheee.
07:30:31 -!- GreyKnight has quit ("BRB").
07:32:50 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:14:51 * GreyKnight requests suggestions for a good language to teach small children
09:39:48 -!- GreyKnight has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
09:39:48 -!- anonfunc has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
09:46:20 -!- anonfunc has joined.
09:48:26 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
09:55:41 <Razor-X> Actually, I learned the fundamentals of programming through ``RPG Maker 95'', heh.
09:56:43 <Razor-X> Then some QBASIC, and I 'unno, it clicked somewhere.
09:57:21 <Razor-X> But I just wonder if Lisps are a bit too.... mathematical I guess....
09:57:27 <GreyKnight> possibly one with some graphics capabilities
09:57:46 <Razor-X> A lot of the abstractions are intuitive if you've taken Algebra I, but until then, yeah.
09:58:53 <GreyKnight> Mathematics and small children are my two specialties
09:59:06 <Razor-X> I've wondered what happens if someone starts with a Lisp as a first language.
09:59:31 <Razor-X> For imperative programmers, the switch from imperative to functional is mind-wracking, I wonder how it is from functional to imperative.
10:01:41 <fizzie> There's Logo, for all your turtle graphics needs.
10:02:12 <fizzie> I seem to recall that the language was somehow funny, too.
10:02:59 <Razor-X> Yeah. I learned Logo at (my old rich private) school as the first language, but I was always interested in computers beyond that.
10:03:36 <fizzie> Can't really remember specifics of the language, though. Last time I used it probably at the age of 10 or so.
10:03:54 <Razor-X> One day I and a group of friends walked in the lab and 3 sixth-graders had left their programs up. We sneakily copied them to our floppies, stole our floppies when the teacher wasn't looking and took it home to analyze.
10:04:07 <GreyKnight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_programming_language
10:04:44 <Razor-X> I got the most interesting one, a concentric ring of circles in an odd shape. I learned all sorts of stuff reading the source.
10:05:48 <GreyKnight> The Logo programming language is a functional programming language. It is an easier to read adaptation and dialect of the Lisp programming language; some have called it Lisp without the parentheses.
10:06:31 <Razor-X> I don't remember much though. But yeah, there were no imperative qualities IIRC.
10:07:21 <GreyKnight> basically they swapped the parentheses for brackets :-3
10:08:31 <fizzie> The basic style of doing it ("fw X, lt Z, fw Y, ...") is rather imperative-y.
10:09:58 <Razor-X> Monads make the babies cry :(.
10:10:01 <fizzie> I don't remember having any understanding of higher-order functions or anything, back then in the Logo days.
10:11:20 <GreyKnight> well, you were probably more concerned with drawing pretty pictures :-P
10:14:14 <fizzie> Admittedly GW-BASIC (which, I think, was my first language) wasn't any better either in that regard, but I didn't really "get" Prolog. (Which was the other language for which there was an interpreter installed.)
10:15:47 <fizzie> I don't think I really get Prolog now either. My Scheme interpreter in Prolog is mostly abusing Prolog to work like any old imperative programming language.
10:21:02 <Razor-X> I haven't looked into Prolog at all.
10:21:21 <GreyKnight> Is there an existing Lisp that'd serve this purpose well, or should I throw something together?
10:21:31 <Razor-X> Higher-order functions are deceptively easy once understood, mysteries until then :P.
10:21:49 <Razor-X> Why not pick up some Scheme and X graphics stuff GreyKnight?
10:22:14 <Razor-X> MIT/GNU Scheme comes with an (very basic) implementation of X.
10:22:36 <fizzie> PLT Scheme has a GUI thing.
10:22:48 <fizzie> I personally didn't much like it, but it does.
10:22:52 <Razor-X> How is Guile? It seems messy.
10:23:12 <Razor-X> But it has the most activity of all the Schemes :(.
10:24:22 <fizzie> There's also xdraw for graphics; it's what our Scheme course used for project-work, which means that every student's project had a completely different-looking (usually: ugley) GUI. http://users.tkk.fi/~rsaikkon/software/xdraw.html
10:24:32 <Razor-X> I picked up MIT/GNU Scheme only beacuse.... it *is* the official GNU distribution.
10:24:36 <GreyKnight> He'll probably be wanting to bring stuff onto his mum's windows computer... that outta be fun :-(
10:25:25 <fizzie> PLT should be relatively windows-friendly. And it has that IDE, of sorts.
10:25:36 <Razor-X> You could probably code something for the Windows API too, I know MIT/GNU Scheme cooperates fine on it.
10:26:01 <fizzie> Razor-X; That's not something to teach to small children. They'll be scarred for life!
10:26:21 <Razor-X> I meant that GreyKnight does the WinAPI coding :P.
10:26:32 <fizzie> Oh! Well, that's better.
10:26:57 <GreyKnight> See, once a project decides that it needs to involve WinAPI, I usually come up with a million other things I'd rather be doing
10:27:18 <Razor-X> I wish there was some review site of all the Schemes.
10:27:31 <Razor-X> Trust me, X code is no fun either.
10:28:17 <GreyKnight> Maybe I should do a web-based solution and just draw with gd :-3
10:28:52 <fizzie> I would think there are GD-like libraries for on-screen drawing.
10:29:18 <GreyKnight> I could actually pull this off, I think...
10:29:40 <Razor-X> If you use Guile, someone's probably written some library to some closs-platform GUI toolkit.
10:29:52 <Razor-X> But I mean, Guile seemed messy in some places to me.
10:30:02 <fizzie> GUI toolkits are no fun; drawing lines 'n squares 'n colorful blobs is.
10:30:27 <GreyKnight> I think I'll make gkd-lisp into something less... ugly... and fold it into a nice web thingy
10:30:28 <fizzie> There's the implementation list at http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#implementations but it has no details, so going through it is quite a chore.
10:31:52 <Razor-X> From what I can tell, PLT Scheme, MIT/GNU Scheme, and Guile are the top 3, with Scheme48 as some forgotten-child runners-up candidate.
10:32:59 <fizzie> Scheme48 is what some people on #scheme use.
10:35:42 <Razor-X> What's your experience with the Schemes?
10:37:41 <fizzie> Well, I've been quite partial to mzscheme-the-interpreter, but much dislike the other PLT Scheme things (the web server and the DrScheme environment); Scheme48 looked interesting, but haven't used it much; and Chicken seems to be a nice Scheme compiler with quite a lot of extensionds (called "eggs" there) for things like OpenGL.
10:39:39 <Razor-X> Does MzScheme have many libraries?
10:43:20 <fizzie> Quite a lot, yes. And it's relatively painless to write them; wrote one for the PostgreSQL C library.
10:54:21 <Razor-X> Chicken is nice except for a few little gripes, for one it doesen't support i/o-ports.
10:58:00 <fizzie> I think there was a curses lib.
10:59:26 <fizzie> Don't see it right now, though.
11:10:55 <fizzie> There's a ncurses.egg for Chicken. :p
11:11:34 <Razor-X> I like Chicken the most out of them all, except for its very sparse reference manual. Still, MIT/GNU Scheme offers some great features.
13:09:03 -!- ihope has joined.
14:10:53 -!- Arrogant has joined.
14:18:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:20:26 -!- puzzlet has joined.
14:38:39 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
15:06:03 -!- Arrogant has joined.
15:40:27 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
16:02:31 -!- Arrogant has joined.
16:29:15 -!- jix__ has joined.
16:29:23 -!- tgwizard has joined.
16:44:50 -!- kipple_ has joined.
16:50:52 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:51:20 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
16:52:18 -!- marinus has joined.
16:52:34 -!- marinus has quit (SendQ exceeded).
16:52:35 -!- marinus has joined.
16:56:35 <marinus> For the esolang contest, should an unicode program also output the "begin <mode> <filename>" line, and if so what name should I use?
17:15:17 <RodgerTheGreat> I think that the "begin ... " segment ought to be required (it's not a lot of extra work in most cases) , and the filename can be arbitrary.
17:22:36 <pikhq> Even in Brainfuck, it wouldn't be terribly hard.
17:23:10 * pikhq wishes he had sufficient motivation to work on his macro languag
17:48:05 <ihope> Any use of the Motivator has to be caught on film.
17:48:26 <ihope> That is, any failed attempt to use the Motivator.
17:53:33 -!- _jol_ has joined.
18:10:36 <RodgerTheGreat> the moral of this story: Be careful what you wish for, *especially* in #Esoteric
18:35:40 -!- _jol_ has quit ("leaving").
18:47:53 -!- calamari has joined.
20:05:53 * pikhq curses even more at his damned macro system
20:21:21 * ihope clumsily makes his way through POV-Ray
20:25:23 <ihope> Can I give the thing some sort of ambient lighting or background color or something?
20:27:33 <ihope> Can I give this stuff some background color other than black?
20:30:42 <ihope> It's hard to see a black sphere on a black background.
20:32:01 <ihope> How do I do that? :-P
20:32:30 <GreyKnight> sphere { <x, y, z>, r pigment { rgb <r, g, b> } }
20:35:35 <GreyKnight> also, there's the #default directive to change the default from black:
20:36:00 <GreyKnight> basically what I'm saying here is: RTFM :-3
20:36:05 <fizzie> There are also some material editors for pov-ray.
20:37:01 <fizzie> If one likes point-and-clicking gradients more than entering numeric RGB values.
20:37:17 <fizzie> Real Men write code to generate their .pov files. :p
20:47:18 <Razor-X> Or they write INTERCAL code that compiles to backwards FORTRAN code.
20:48:15 <ihope> Or they write Malbolge code.
20:49:22 <Razor-X> Good think there aren't many real men out there.
20:49:30 <Razor-X> THey do all of this while eating Haggis!
20:50:30 <GreyKnight> that's for girly-boys who are trying to prove themselves to be real men
20:51:30 <ihope> How do real men prove themselves to be real men?
20:51:35 <kipple_> yeah. those Haggis eaters even wear skirts. How girly is that?
20:53:00 -!- ivan` has joined.
20:53:06 <ihope> Everybody just knows that they're real?
20:53:14 <GreyKnight> If you can look at him without your face spontaneously breaking, he's a girly-boy
20:53:33 <pikhq> ihope: The real men are willing to fight Chuck Norris. :p
20:53:36 <Razor-X> We know they exist, somewhere.
20:53:59 <GreyKnight> http://greyfire.org/picture_library/kilt3.jpg \o/
20:54:00 <ihope> pikhq: so Chuck Norris is not a real man, or Chuck Norris is willing to fight himself?
20:54:06 <kipple_> oh my, would you happen to be Scottish, GreyKnight?
20:54:13 <pikhq> ihope: Damn right, Chuck Norris is willing to fight himself.
20:54:22 <pikhq> Of course, he's one step above a real man, so. . .
20:54:30 <GreyKnight> Irish, but we originally (mists of time) come from Scotland
20:54:34 <Razor-X> Wooh. Chicken allows you to do low level Scheme.
20:54:47 <ihope> (You must all be real men, except GregorR and maybe others, because I can't look at any of you.)
20:54:52 <GreyKnight> Which is just as well, because the Irish regional tartans are crap :-(
20:55:05 <pikhq> ihope: The only reason you can't look at us is distance.
20:55:18 <GreyKnight> Especially the Antrim one (which is what I would get). It's pretty poor.
20:55:28 <pikhq> If you look at us, and your face doesn't break, then we're not real men.
20:55:41 * pikhq can trace his family back to England. . .
20:55:54 <Razor-X> I can trace my family back to India.
20:55:57 * Razor-X thinks back one generation.
20:56:12 <fizzie> I think there is a picture (or a couple) of /me in the interweb, so I'm rather lookable in a technical sense.
20:56:36 * pikhq thinks back to pre-Revolutionary War America. . .
20:57:13 <Razor-X> Well, somewhere along the line one of my ancestors slept with a French guy, but whatever.
20:57:24 <Razor-X> (Hence my French last name.)
20:57:45 <Razor-X> I know. It's a horrible language.
20:57:55 * pikhq has a very, very British last name. . .
20:58:00 <pikhq> Worcester. Wheee. . .
20:58:21 <Razor-X> Awww. I love the British last names that end with -bury.
20:58:26 <Razor-X> They sound so.... British.
20:58:56 <pikhq> My last name comes from a bloody city in England. 'Tis quite British to me. :p
21:00:17 <Razor-X> I wonder why British last names don't end with -sex :(.
21:00:19 <fizzie> My last name is "Kallasjoki", which I guess is about as far as you can get from being British, without using a different script.
21:00:35 <Razor-X> If you can name a city with that, why not a person's last name?
21:03:24 -!- jix__ has changed nick to J|x.
21:03:40 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix.
21:04:16 <Razor-X> Stop making excuses for Middlesex.
21:04:19 <GreyKnight> {middle,es,sus}sex from {middle,east,south} seaxe (Saxons)
21:04:57 <Razor-X> So, Sexual would mean ``Regarding the Saxons'' ?
21:05:27 <GreyKnight> Careful! That conclusion's slippery, don't jump on it!
21:05:30 <kipple_> Wessex too (west), but is there a Nossex? ;)
21:06:13 <ifndef_GREGOR_H> GreyKnight: But the scots originally came from Ireland. So if you're Irish but originally came from Scotland, then you're Irish but originally-originally came from Ireland :P
21:06:47 <ihope> susessex is quite asplodey indeed.
21:07:12 <Razor-X> Well, looking at the archaic notation for vectors in physics, this way is more entertaining and just as obfuscating.
21:09:18 <GreyKnight> You think archaic vector notations are strange? Look at tensors. Your head will asplode.
21:19:25 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
21:23:28 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:38:48 <pikhq> I'm trying to figure out a regexpy way of replacing "foo" with "$foo".
21:38:51 <ihope> Nobody's in ##quantum.
21:38:57 <ihope> pikhq: s/foo/$foo/?
21:39:04 <ihope> I had a quantum question...
21:39:11 <pikhq> ihope: That doesn't work quite so well in Tcl regexps.
21:39:26 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
21:39:27 <ihope> s/foo/\%foo/, then?
21:40:18 <pikhq> regsub {regexp to be matched} {string to do substitution in} {what to replace with}
21:42:40 <ihope> I think Heisenberg has me.
21:42:43 <pikhq> Maybe I should just call sed. :p
21:44:56 <ihope> "A just policy is one which you would accept without knowing which side of it you'd be on."
21:45:07 <ihope> Taxes are unjust, then.
21:45:59 <ihope> Not to say that they aren't...
21:46:05 <GreyKnight> tax money doesn't just disappear into the ether, though
21:46:20 <GreyKnight> they're supposed to be used to provide useful national services and whatnot
21:46:43 <GreyKnight> I disturbs me that I had to include "supposed to" on that
21:58:32 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
21:58:34 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
21:59:36 <EgoBot> 76 +++++++++++[>+++>++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>+++.++++.------------.+++++.---------. [402]
22:06:54 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:09:00 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
22:23:49 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:24:24 -!- marinus has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:37:47 -!- tgwizard has quit (Connection timed out).
22:52:10 -!- anonfunc has quit.
22:55:53 <ihope_> What do you want him for?
22:57:40 <Razor-X> I need to know what RawIRC can (or more aptly, cannot) do.
22:59:11 <ihope_> I think RawIRC = TCP client + IRC syntax highlighting + display of undisplayable characters + entry of untypable characters.
23:00:30 <ihope_> And remember that MemoServ + pastebin = email :-)
23:00:54 <ihope_> Except that everyone can see your email.
23:01:13 <Razor-X> Everyone can see Pastebin too.
23:01:36 <ihope_> And that's why everyone can see your email.
23:01:41 <ihope_> You have to stick it in a pastebin.
23:04:35 <pikhq> I've got the macro system working.
23:05:03 <ihope_> So email GregorR your question :-)
23:05:12 * pikhq much abused Tcl to do so
23:06:33 * ihope_ kisses Gr--wait, what?
23:07:04 <GregorR> telnet + coloring + macros + auto-ping-pong + auto-jon/auto-identify
23:07:22 <GregorR> It does not give you typability of untypable characters, that's provided by ^(whatever) already
23:07:32 <GregorR> Oh, plus it carries the line you're typing.
23:07:53 <ihope_> So you can press control-C and it'll just type that character?
23:08:06 <GregorR> ^A will give you \1 though
23:08:15 <ihope_> That means itstehsuckulose
23:10:40 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/rawirc.png
23:10:50 <ihope_> What happens if some guy on IRC says ANSI terminal control codes?
23:11:06 <GregorR> ihope_: Anything unprintable is converted to a .
23:11:24 <ihope_> Are the dots color-coded or anything?
23:12:09 <ihope_> That means it sucks random things and you fail at life.
23:12:46 <Razor-X> Does it still do the annoying line echoing?
23:13:48 <ihope_> GregorR loses, but that doesn't mean you win.
23:15:04 <Razor-X> I'll bet he's furiously coding the feature to get rid of nonprintable characters right now.
23:15:22 <Razor-X> Let's spam him with ASCII control characters!
23:15:24 * pikhq is victorious, because he has his macro system working
23:28:23 -!- kipple_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:40:05 * pikhq has combined the two-stage compiling thing into a single stage. :D
23:48:21 -!- GreyKnight has quit (".").
23:49:16 <ihope_> "." isn't a quit message!