00:00:18 <GregorR> Plof2 is coming along nicely :)
00:01:17 <GregorR> I made some fairly major changes to areas in Plof1 that bugged me.
00:01:27 <GregorR> Particularly deep returns and associative arrays.
00:01:33 <oklopol> cool, i liked how you did if's and such, though don't remember that well anymore :)
00:01:53 <oklopol> yeah, i remember you complaining about them
00:02:07 <GregorR> I sort of designed myself into a corner with them :-P
00:03:01 <GregorR> Well, since things like if() and while() took functions as arguments. return was a bit ambiguous.
00:03:26 <GregorR> e.g. if I do: if({a == 3}, {return(6);}); it's questionable whether that return should just go to the if, or out of the function the if is in.
00:03:47 <GregorR> Mind you, it's not ambiguous to the programmer, but the language was designed in such a way that it's ambiguous.
00:04:07 <oklopol> that was exactly what i liked :)
00:04:15 <oklopol> but, i understand how it's bad...
00:04:24 <GregorR> Well, I haven't changed how if is handled and such, but I've made that part less ambiguous.
00:04:34 <GregorR> Basically, I made two classes of functions: thick functions and thin functions.
00:04:48 <GregorR> If you return from a thin function, it falls all the way down to the latest thick function.
00:05:18 <GregorR> So: if(:{a == 3}, {return(6);}); will return all the way up to the function that called if().
00:05:23 <oklopol> you'll prolly be able to do everything pretty nicely like that
00:05:30 <GregorR> It's working fairly well :)
00:05:55 <oklopol> if i wasn't so tired i might try to think of an example where you might wanna have something in-between those two types
00:06:11 <oklopol> though you might've thought it through since you're making the language :)
00:06:36 <GregorR> I'm trying to find a balance between complexity and confusion, so to speak.
00:08:03 <GregorR> There are certainly more /possible/ classes.
00:08:17 <GregorR> But I think that adding them would create unnecessary confusion without enough benefit.
00:08:34 <oklopol> making anything more complex than thick/thin for returning would probably eventually lead to a tc function call system
00:08:36 <pikhq> So, Plof2 is basically a redesign of Plof, simply due to limitations of the basic concepts of Plof1
00:09:33 <pikhq> Although one could surely think of function classes that'd not affect returning.
00:10:31 <GregorR> My new interpreter is rampantly incomplete as of yet :P
00:10:46 <GregorR> Anyway, I still haven't found a nice balance for operator overloading.
00:12:53 <pikhq> I need to see the spec as it stands. . .
00:13:06 <GregorR> I haven't written it yet :-P
00:14:36 <pikhq> So, I need to see a core dump of your brain.
00:16:14 <oklopol> or you can see the old one, fix it yourself and assume GregorR has done essentially the same
00:16:42 <oklopol> although i'm not sure if it was really a spec
00:16:49 <pikhq> Indeed, I could do that, except for Gregor's different idea of reality.
00:16:52 <oklopol> might've been just a few examples
00:17:12 <pikhq> It was a semispec.
00:17:21 <pikhq> For all intents and purposes, the *interpreter* was your spec.
00:18:32 <oklopol> yeah, that's often the case
00:18:41 <oklopol> (with lazy lang developers)
00:18:58 <GregorR> Like myself for example ;)
00:20:02 <oklopol> well, specs are for wimps, why recode it in english if it's already done in a real language
00:20:45 * GregorR begins writing something resembling a spec.
00:21:49 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:26:01 <oerjan> specs are for allowing the possibility of several mutually incompatible implementations.
00:26:21 <oerjan> At least that's why I wrote a spec for Malbolge Unshackled.
00:27:08 <oerjan> and then i made my interpreter support several of them, randomly selected.
00:30:45 <oerjan> it sort of got out of hand.
00:31:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:34:59 -!- Figs has joined.
00:35:12 <Figs> (\d{4}[- ]){3}\d{4}
00:35:18 <Figs> what the hell does that mean? O.o
00:35:24 <Figs> any regex experts around? :P
00:36:11 <oklopol> three times (4 digits, possibly "- ") then 4 digits
00:36:34 <Figs> that seams reasonable
00:36:40 <Figs> but it's darned esoteric ;)
00:37:07 <GregorR> Something in the form of: 1234-5678-9012-3456
00:37:22 <oklopol> 0000000000000000 is legal though?
00:37:40 <GregorR> Mus thave either '-' or ' ', not neither.
00:37:48 <oklopol> i though it's optional... silly me :)
00:38:08 <Figs> 1234 5678-9012-3456
00:38:16 <oklopol> yeah, was just thinking that
00:38:27 <oklopol> can you define it's jsut one of them?
00:39:20 <GregorR> \d{4}([- ])(\d{4}\1){2}\d{4}
00:41:40 <oklopol> hmm, i have a hard time understanding this... a quantum computer is supposed to be able to factorize numbers fast etc because they can brute force all possible cases simultaneously
00:41:40 <oklopol> now to actually be able to do any calculations that lead to the answer the qubits have to interact i assume, but why do they let other qubits touch them without losing they omnipresence?
00:41:57 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:44:33 -!- SevenInchBread has joined.
00:45:53 <oerjan> relative to each other they are not "omnipresent", but relative to the outside observer they are. or so i think.
00:46:04 <Figs> what is the point of regex?
00:47:17 <oklopol> that was my exact point with the air example... but it does not foresee then, merely know exactly which particles are known by which?
00:49:18 <SevenInchBread> regex is basically intended to match patterns in strings that would otherise take a lot of screwing around with regular code.
00:49:58 <Figs> I think I may be too lazy
00:51:25 <oklopol> you don't know lazy. it took an hour for me to leave for the shop across the street because i was too lazy to put on shoes
00:52:22 <Figs> I'm so lazy I wrote a shell script that shows my desktop
00:52:30 <Figs> even though I already have button to do it
00:52:45 * oerjan is reminded of a norwegian tv ad where someone wants to go naked to the shop because it's just a short trip
00:52:49 <Figs> because I didn't want to move my fingers to the top of the keyboard :P
00:54:44 <oklopol> okay, it took me 2 weeks to decide to actually download all simpsons episodes after i'd decided to do it
00:55:04 <oklopol> and it requires me to do 5 clicks and typing the word simpsons
00:55:49 <oklopol> AND i dl'd cube 2 in french, but didn't want to do the work again, so i watched it 3 times hoping i'd just learn french
00:58:11 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:21:24 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
01:22:58 -!- SevenInchBread has joined.
01:37:15 -!- Sukoshi` has changed nick to Sukoshi.
01:43:31 -!- Figs has left (?).
02:13:41 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:27:44 -!- jix__ has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
02:29:19 -!- SevenInchBread has joined.
02:37:02 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg
02:38:01 <SevenInchBread> I just need to figure out... what the wav format looks like
02:42:18 <GregorR> I'd just plot raw waves *shrugs*
02:42:31 <GregorR> Then use something capable of playing raw audio.
02:44:58 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... I don't really know a lot about audio hardware... you can play plain ol' wave coordinats?
02:45:18 <GregorR> This has nothing to do with hardware ... I'm talking about software :)
02:47:15 <SevenInchBread> alrighty then.... I don't know anything about audio software either.
02:48:00 <GregorR> With many audio players, you can give it files containing just raw waveform data.
02:48:10 <GregorR> e.g. unsigned 8-bit values, 22000 per second
02:48:27 <GregorR> .wav files are pretty similar, but have a header to specify those things.
02:49:20 <SevenInchBread> but I mean... what's the waveform data look like? What does each byte value represent?
02:50:26 <Sukoshi> The format tells you. For example, unsigned 8-bit 22 kHz sampling rate tells you that each sample point is interpolated between 0 and 255 and that 22,000 samples constitute the waveform for one second.
02:50:57 <Sukoshi> And that the origin is considered 126-127.
02:53:13 <oerjan> apparently it was a boomerang :)
02:57:18 * oerjan doesn't understand why the origin should be 126. 127.5 is the mid value after all.
02:59:08 -!- Sukoshi has quit ("ERC Version 5.1 (CVS) $Revision: 1.796 $ (IRC client for Emacs)").
03:09:17 <oerjan> i mean i'ld expect the origin to be either 127, 128 or not actually represented.
03:33:53 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:00:25 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
04:25:32 <GregorR> You can use 64 bits and 128kHz :)
04:26:17 <GregorR> Sure - raw, 64-bit, 128kHz audio data X-P
04:26:56 <GregorR> Anybody have an SCM they could recommend that can have a repository easily uploadable to any server? I used darcs before, I'm wondering if there's anything else y'all'd recommend.
04:28:55 <GregorR> subversion doesn't fit the criteria.
04:29:13 <GregorR> I don't know how to put stereo in raw audio, but I think it's just simple interlacing of some kind.
04:31:11 <GregorR> And then checking out involves downloading every revision X_X
04:31:57 <GregorR> Can you just upload the repository as it appears on disk to anywhere accessible via HTTP?
04:33:09 <GregorR> I mean: I can upload stuff accessible via HTTP. Not WebDAV, not ssh, not custom servers. HTTP.
04:33:57 <GregorR> Are those scripts somewhere online I don't know of? Some kind of PHP WebDAV? :)
04:34:49 <GregorR> Sooo, you're suggesting I use scripts that don't actually exist?
04:35:14 <bsmntbombdood> Well, you'd have to write them before you could use them
04:36:18 <bsmntbombdood> Very simple, just except the dump file, then run one svnadmin command on it
04:40:30 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
05:19:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
07:31:43 -!- Sukoshi has joined.
07:33:51 <Sukoshi> Supplementing the earlier discussion, the reason the origin is at 126 or 127 is because that's how Linux reads in the ADC input.
07:40:03 -!- ShadowHntr has quit ("End of line.").
07:46:48 <GregorR> ........... I'd say the reason is probably because that's the middle of the range.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:19:30 <GregorR> I'm thinking about making the object combination operator be nothing.
08:19:49 <GregorR> e.g.: var DerivedType = A :[ stufftoadd = "bler" ];
08:21:03 <GregorR> That would leave + open to operator overloading.
09:01:15 -!- RoboMonkey has joined.
09:04:22 <GregorR> I need to talk to ... pikhq or jix.
09:13:26 -!- sebbu has joined.
09:37:41 <GregorR> bsmnt_bot: You have any opinions? :P
09:38:50 -!- EgoBot has joined.
09:43:18 <oklopol> ...not as an imperative though
09:44:57 <GregorR> ^(I'm Plof and I frown :[ )
09:45:21 <oklopol> !ul (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )^
09:45:44 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon ul reload
09:45:46 <EgoBot> 2 EgoBot: daemon deadfish reload
09:45:48 <EgoBot> 3 EgoBot: daemon irp reload
09:45:50 <EgoBot> 4 EgoBot: daemon dog reload
09:46:29 <oklopol> it just doesn't do anything in unlambda :)
09:46:38 <oklopol> !ul (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )S
09:46:40 <EgoBot> I'm Plof and I frown :[
09:46:53 <oklopol> !ul (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )aS
09:46:56 <EgoBot> (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )
09:47:11 <oklopol> !ul (I'm Plof and I frown :[ ):aSS
09:47:14 <EgoBot> (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )I'm Plof and I frown :[
09:47:28 <oklopol> ah, the interpreter is made in brainfuck :P
09:47:36 <oklopol> i wondered why it's that slow
09:47:50 <GregorR> Feel free to give me one in $OTHER_LANGUAGE.
09:48:23 <GregorR> !irp Blah blah blah words words, please.
09:50:17 <oklopol> no no, i think it's good it's in brianfuck, i just didn't remember that right away
09:50:54 <GregorR> That was a weird way to end that.
09:51:27 <oklopol> yeah, i'm bad with sentences.
10:34:31 -!- Sukoshi has quit ("後でね。").
10:42:35 -!- RoboMonkey has quit ("byes").
10:42:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gonna go, gnight").
10:44:00 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
10:44:03 -!- lament has joined.
12:58:13 -!- jix has joined.
14:29:07 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:31:38 <oerjan> GregorR: My point it that 126-127 is _not_ the middle of the range, 127-128 is.
14:54:59 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:55:10 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
15:00:23 -!- crathman_ has joined.
16:24:51 -!- jix__ has joined.
16:33:34 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:09:54 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:16:58 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
17:27:09 -!- crathman_ has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]").
17:31:00 -!- crathman has joined.
19:03:45 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:22:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
19:22:30 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
19:39:30 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:51:10 -!- jix__ has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
20:03:29 -!- crathman_ has joined.
20:05:06 -!- crathman has quit (Connection timed out).
20:05:11 -!- crathman_ has changed nick to crathman.
20:06:39 -!- crathman has quit (Client Quit).
20:37:47 <GregorR> l'I still don't know whether I like letting the null operator be object combination.
20:40:58 <GregorR> I'm in the other one too ;)
20:59:23 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit.
21:00:02 -!- ShadowHntr has joined.
21:38:26 -!- crathman has joined.
21:39:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
21:58:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
22:17:36 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:17:47 -!- GregorR has joined.
22:40:01 -!- sebbu has joined.
22:59:46 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out).
23:00:27 -!- Srekel2 has joined.
23:14:15 <bsmntbombdood> so many representations of the natural numbers, each stating the same axioms in slightly different ways
23:14:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Client Quit).
23:19:23 -!- crathman_ has joined.
23:20:13 -!- crathman_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:21:48 <bsmntbombdood> \exist \mathbf{N}: \varnothing \in \mathbf{N} \and (\forall x: x \in \mathbf{N} \implies x \cup \{x\} \in \mathbf{N})
23:27:55 -!- Srekel2 has left (?).
23:37:06 -!- crathman has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:52:57 <bsmntbombdood> so it seems the set of all important numbers is countable
23:54:29 <bsmntbombdood> which is interesting, because the set of reals isn't countable
23:54:34 <oerjan> there exists a countable model for the ZF axioms.
23:55:24 <lament> bsmntbombdood: it's actually not all that interesting.
23:55:55 <lament> most reals are not important, they're just there for consistency.