01:19:57 -!- Sukoshi has joined.
01:45:26 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:51:19 -!- lament has changed nick to lament3.
02:46:46 -!- SevenInchBread has joined.
02:55:44 -!- ShadowHntr has quit (Client Quit).
02:57:36 -!- Lunaris has joined.
02:57:53 <Lunaris> http://www.geocities.com/dark_mage60/home.html - Donate to my site please ;)
02:58:10 -!- Lunaris has left (?).
03:09:23 -!- Figs has joined.
03:09:51 <Figs> you guys should make a 'h4x0r' asm where 'omg' 'wtf' 'rofl' and 'pr0n' are opcodes :P
03:11:21 <oerjan> have you looked at Omgrofl?
03:11:31 <Figs> already been done? :P
03:11:50 <Figs> heh heh heh @.@
03:19:06 <Figs> http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Agify&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
03:19:08 <oerjan> well that's where i found tldr anyhow
03:19:20 <Figs> http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Atldr&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
03:19:25 <Figs> it suggested ntldr
03:19:40 <Figs> maybe I'm just being too smart
03:19:46 <Figs> and should have just searched more directly...
03:20:10 <oerjan> indeed, because wiktionary came up on top
03:20:29 <Figs> wikitionary is your friend?
03:20:41 <Figs> wiki -X is your friend
03:21:41 <Figs> can I call operations without a variable in OMGROFL?
03:21:44 <oerjan> what is wiki -X? google is not particularly friendly on that
03:22:00 <Figs> instead of l33t lol
03:22:11 <Figs> wiki(fill in the blank)
03:23:06 <Figs> wiki -tionary, -pedia
03:24:18 <oerjan> i don't think you can leave out variables
03:26:00 <oerjan> although there is no real reason why not
03:28:41 <Figs> wtf lol iz leik 0
03:29:54 <Figs> is this right? --> s/brb/brb\nlmao lol
03:35:38 <oerjan> it's not a whole program
03:35:58 <Figs> I didn't define lol
03:36:33 <Figs> wtf lol iz leik 0 is a comparison
03:37:07 <oerjan> i should know this since i actually cleaned up that page
03:37:28 <Figs> does x86 have a page?
03:37:31 <Figs> it really should
03:37:48 <oerjan> not on our wiki i presume
03:38:30 <Figs> it just seems like it to me :P
03:38:42 <oerjan> intention matters quite a bit
03:41:00 <Figs> on the other hand, it seems to only be used by a relatively small subset of programmers
03:41:39 <Figs> which seems to match at least one definition of I've read of esoteric
03:41:57 <Figs> 'limited to a small circle' (ex. esoteric persuits)
03:42:12 <Figs> but I could be misunderstanding that meaning :P
03:42:42 <oerjan> by that definition most programming languages would be esoteric
03:43:05 <Figs> most people consider programming in general to be esoteric :P
03:43:31 <Figs> but I meant within the context of programming :)
03:43:45 <Figs> namespace Programming {};//rofl
03:44:24 <Figs> I'm just lazy :)
03:44:48 <oerjan> well, x86 assembler might be in the top 100, and there are thousands of languages
03:45:09 <Figs> ok. I see your point
03:45:28 <oerjan> i wonder where to check that...
03:45:53 * Figs starts searching for the instruction set for UNIVAC
03:50:18 <Figs> http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/instructions.html
03:51:43 <Figs> Imagine programming for that thing O.o
04:15:03 <Figs> 252 out of 256 single-byte op codes :P
04:19:50 <Figs> with the other 4 enabling extended ops :P
04:21:56 <Figs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z80#Instruction_set_and_encoding
04:22:16 <Figs> "extensively as opcode prefixes"
04:22:24 <Figs> only two enable extra instructions
04:22:41 <Figs> the other two do something else that I don't understand :P
04:27:57 <Figs> might I recommend playing with xLogicCircuits?
04:28:10 <Figs> Slow as molasses :)
04:28:26 <Figs> xLogicCircuits is a program for designing... logic circuits :P
04:28:30 <Figs> it's a java app
04:28:33 <Figs> meant for teaching
04:28:52 <Figs> I made most of a 4-bit CPU in it
04:29:11 <Figs> and then I my browser crashed and I forgot to save
04:29:22 <Figs> got bored trying to rewrite the stack :P
04:29:41 <SevenInchBread> Fuck RISC - computer architectures need to add more crap and be extremly confangled.
04:30:04 <Figs> rofl, I kind of like RISC after looking at x86 and going 'wtf?'
04:30:50 <Figs> I actually pulled out my hex editor and started working out what the binary in the instructions meant...
04:31:39 <Figs> I got a fair ways, too
04:33:35 <Figs> is SI a general use register?
04:34:28 <Figs> 7", I take it you don't like the "subtract and branch if negative" view of computing?
04:36:50 <Figs> I suppose if(x) {a();} else {b();} would be a branch
04:51:30 <Figs> what is the x86 equivalent of ax << 1
04:51:36 <Figs> (multiply by 2)
04:59:51 <Figs> I get GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
05:06:33 <Figs> HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
05:06:40 <Figs> which is more reasonable :)
05:06:44 <Figs> but still WRONG
05:09:40 -!- ShadowHntr has joined.
05:40:30 <Sukoshi> I like OISC and think it would be nifty, especially since memory is the only bottleneck.
05:41:45 <Figs> question for asm guys
05:41:54 <Figs> will it fuck up?
05:42:28 <Figs> it will pop a word from the stack, right?
05:52:50 <Sgeo> Well, g'night all
05:54:11 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving").
06:10:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("Gooed knight").
07:20:47 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:08:57 -!- ShadowHntr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:46:59 -!- ShadowHntr has joined.
09:06:38 -!- ShadowHntr has quit ("End of line.").
09:23:15 -!- sebbu has joined.
11:36:44 -!- jix__ has joined.
12:03:29 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("restarting xchat").
12:04:15 -!- nazgjunk has joined.
12:05:02 -!- nazgjunk has quit (Client Quit).
12:05:31 -!- nazgjunk has joined.
12:25:06 -!- sebbu has quit ("reboot").
12:34:58 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
12:43:36 -!- sebbu has joined.
13:37:24 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("reboot").
13:43:48 -!- nazgjunk has joined.
13:53:22 -!- sebbu has quit ("Leaving").
14:16:22 -!- helios24 has quit ("leaving").
14:16:30 -!- helios24 has joined.
14:23:52 -!- sebbu has joined.
14:30:55 -!- UpTheDownstair has joined.
14:31:01 -!- UpTheDownstair has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:50:39 -!- nazgjunk has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:54:36 -!- nazgjunk has joined.
15:33:09 -!- SevenInchBread has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa").
15:59:09 -!- jupiter3888 has joined.
16:12:35 -!- jupiter3888 has quit.
16:13:24 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:23:29 -!- jix__ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:25:13 -!- jix__ has joined.
16:27:13 -!- nazgjunk has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:30:11 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon ul reload
16:30:13 <EgoBot> 2 EgoBot: daemon deadfish reload
16:30:15 <EgoBot> 3 EgoBot: daemon irp reload
16:30:17 <EgoBot> 4 EgoBot: daemon dog reload
16:30:40 <ais523> !ul (so this is still working, then?)S
16:30:43 <EgoBot> so this is still working, then?
16:44:26 -!- nazgjunk has joined.
16:56:53 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
16:56:55 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
17:08:42 -!- calamari has joined.
17:13:17 -!- SevenInchBread has joined.
17:25:08 -!- SevenInchBread has changed nick to CakeProphet.
17:53:38 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:54:15 -!- Figs has joined.
17:59:45 <oerjan> but "gooed" _must_ be a word, even if not in the dictionary. After all it has obvious meaning.
18:00:05 <oerjan> at least two of them, i think.
18:22:58 <ais523> This conversation is getting redundant quickly
18:27:13 <ais523> looking forward to tomorrow, anyone?
18:27:23 <ais523> (or I suppose today in some timezones)
18:37:59 <ais523> I might even make a special attempt to obtain Internet access tomorrow.
18:38:15 <ais523> (The fact that I have Internet access today is due to the fact that I need to prepare.)
18:42:48 <Figs> what are you doing? :P
18:43:19 -!- calamari has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:44:38 <ais523> I was sending some new esolang files to graue so he could put them on the archive, and I could let everyone know about them tommorow
18:45:03 <Figs> CakeProphet... look at a calendar
18:45:13 <ais523> CakeProphet: the anniversary of the release of Whitespace
18:50:39 <ais523> your output string ended with the first ., because NUL is an end-of-string marker in many programming languages, so the remaining 3 are redundant
18:54:05 <CakeProphet> omote prepares the mysterious ointment... for overview of ais523's constituents.
18:54:15 * CakeProphet prepares the mysterious ointment... for overview of ais523's constituents.
18:56:10 * ais523 wonders how they became an MP without realising it
18:56:55 <ais523> In England, an MP (member of Parliament) is in charge of one constituency, and everyone living there is their constituent
18:56:59 -!- oklopol has joined.
18:58:04 <CakeProphet> ...I have this strange feeling that ais523 is some kind of robot.
19:06:31 <SimonRC> ais523: *where* in England?
19:06:50 <ais523> I'm not an MP, as far as I know
19:07:04 <ais523> unless I misunderstand you
19:07:12 <ais523> besides, if you really want to know, a whois will tell you
19:10:58 <SimonRC> I am in durham during term-time
19:17:39 <oklopol> ais523 i think CakeProphet meant the no-gender thing
19:18:13 <ais523> I don't see why a gender is important in online communication
19:18:21 -!- dog4 has joined.
19:18:45 * CakeProphet usually doesn't disclose his gender... althought it's probably obvious.
19:19:41 <ais523> hello everyone I haven't said hello to yet
19:19:59 <ais523> not just people in #esoteric, /everyone/
19:20:11 <ais523> (although they're less likely to get the message)
19:20:41 <dog4> just tell them to turn up their telepathic receivers to 11
19:21:24 <ais523> we seem to have a record number of people here whose screennames end in numbers now
19:21:38 <ais523> I don't think I've seen as many as 5 before
19:21:42 -!- Figs has changed nick to Figs42.
19:21:43 -!- Figs42 has changed nick to Figs.
19:22:00 <Figs> why the fsck is my program not working STILL? :(
19:22:52 <Figs> x86 asm .COM program to take any set of address to null-terminated strings and print them to the console
19:23:02 <Figs> and then clean up inside the function
19:23:16 <Figs> (like stdcall instead of regular cdecl)
19:23:47 <ais523> I was working on an interesting variant of .COM programs a while ago
19:24:03 <ais523> If you want to send someone a program over Usenet, one way is by uuencoding it
19:24:21 <ais523> but if they're using an outmoded operating system like Windows, they won't necessarily be able to un-uuencode it
19:24:31 <ais523> so I came up with the idea of self-extracting uuencode
19:24:53 <ais523> (or to be precise, I saw it mentioned elsewhere and liked the idea)
19:26:10 <oerjan> you mean like a COM/EXE UUENCODE polyglot?
19:26:17 <Figs> I think I figured it out
19:26:34 <Figs> I'm pushing the value of BP that I popped
19:26:38 <SimonRC> well, theoretically the UUE data does not start until the "begin" line, so...
19:26:39 <ais523> http://pastebin.ca/raw/418585
19:27:04 <ais523> is the program itself (in a self-uudecoding format, written in obfuscated C)
19:27:11 <Figs> which is where SP was before...
19:27:31 <ais523> except that my version uses 2 bytes per byte, rather than 1.33, so is less efficient
19:27:39 <ais523> and it doesn't contain any newlines, because newlines are nonportable
19:28:11 <ais523> oerjan: a COM/UUENCODE polyglot would be even better, if it could be managed somehow
19:28:23 -!- atrapado has joined.
19:29:44 <ais523> 'begin' doesn't disassemble into anything, unfortunately, because lowercase letters don't correspond to anything AFAIK
19:29:46 <Figs> does anyone have an x86 simulator so I can see what my program is doing?
19:29:57 <SimonRC> simple, you have a COM file that starts with the decoder, followed by a newline, then the usual UUE format.
19:30:26 <ais523> Figs: on Windows/DOS, you can use the DEBUG program to single-step through a COM file
19:31:18 <Figs> how do I get the values of the registers?
19:31:46 <ais523> In DEBUG, ? lists all the commands available
19:31:53 <Figs> yeah, I'm looking at that
19:31:57 <Figs> and I've looked at it before
19:31:59 <ais523> I'm pretty sure there's one to get/set registers, but I can't check it at the moment
19:32:51 <Figs> maybe there is
19:32:59 -!- ais523 has quit ("somehow it reached half past seven without me noticing. Clock changes are annoying").
19:33:12 <Figs> I really hate debug, to be honest... it's help is next to useless
20:01:31 -!- Figs has left (?).
20:13:22 -!- calamari has joined.
21:21:09 <SimonRC> It could be done in some Fortran compilers that targetted machines without immediate constants
21:21:22 <SimonRC> every constant had to be somwhere in memory
21:21:35 <SimonRC> and there was little checking
21:21:49 <SimonRC> and identical constants would be shared, so...
21:22:07 <SimonRC> a constant was like an initialised variable
21:22:58 <oklopol> random poll: minesweeper records :)
21:23:43 <oklopol> on windows standard sizes, i have 7, 60 and 192
21:24:37 <oerjan> hm... i have a vague idea that i was better than that in my time
21:25:06 <oerjan> i am sure i was below 150
21:25:37 <oklopol> i get goddamn slow when it's almost done
21:25:54 <oerjan> nowadays my hands cannot cope with it :(
21:28:13 <oklopol> i made a minesweeper once that had nice keyboard shortcuts... the problem is it did board refreshing by printing it again with stdout... looked ugly.. and i didn't know how you can read input without the user having to press return
21:28:34 <oklopol> i still don't though, if you wanna use console
21:29:03 <CakeProphet> Like, a few days ago I considered hijacking ICANN's traffic so I could redo the entire domain name structure of the internet
21:30:59 <SimonRC> CakeProphet: gov.us now wants ICANN to hand over the master key for DNS signing (see slashdot for more)
21:31:32 <CakeProphet> alright - I'm tempted to do something radical.
21:31:52 <CakeProphet> I SHALL FORM A GROUP... A BAND OF CONSPIRACY PIRATES... TO ENSURE THAT NO ONE OWNS ANY PART OF THE INTERNET.
21:33:18 <SimonRC> ICANN needs a standing army
21:35:09 -!- atrapado has quit ("ribadeo").
21:37:15 <CakeProphet> thre really shouldn't be any regultation of domain names other than being globally consistent and first-come-first-serve.
21:37:50 <CakeProphet> being a business shouldn't make you more entitled to having a name.
21:38:21 <SimonRC> that would enable spoofing
21:38:52 <SimonRC> In the sense of people setting up a site with the company's name that looks like an official site
21:39:35 <SimonRC> I wonder why none of these phishing websites just act like a web proxy but with MITM on the secure stuff?
21:42:07 <oerjan> they can usually not fake the sertificates, which are tied to the exact domain name, i think
21:42:48 <oklopol> oerjan really, expert under 150 :O feck i have some work to do...
21:44:34 <oerjan> i vaguely recall something around 129.
21:46:26 <oklopol> hehe you just robbed me of a few nights of sleep :P
21:49:45 <oklopol> what did you have in the small one?
21:50:09 <oklopol> it's much more about luck so i might stand a chance :)
21:50:18 * SimonRC finds an article from Jan 2001 that predicted Bush would start at least one war.
21:50:21 <SimonRC> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784
21:52:37 <oerjan> um, i don't think the onion are usually trying to be accurate
21:53:50 <oerjan> oklopol: i don't remember at all.
21:56:35 <bsmntbombdood> You aren't even allowed to leave the us without the goverment's permission anymore
21:58:31 <oerjan> eh, it is not midnight yet
21:59:15 <SimonRC> feck, forgot to type up my stuff for this AFJ
22:10:50 -!- Figs has joined.
22:10:55 <Figs> it works !!! O_O
22:10:56 <Figs> http://rafb.net/p/y5eay298.html
22:12:09 <Figs> Goodbye, World.
22:12:39 <Figs> the idea was to write a function that takes any number of arguments
22:12:44 <Figs> and cleans itself up
22:13:12 <Figs> that's what I did
22:14:54 <Figs> you have to remember I am a complete n00b at asm
22:15:03 <Figs> so making this work is a big achievement for me
22:16:35 <Figs> I finally did figure out how to get debug to do what I wanted
22:17:20 <Figs> my test code is rather dirty
22:18:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
22:21:19 <oerjan> i suppose that's part of why lisp has symbols
22:21:42 <oklopol> but it's O(logn) if most strings are different... though i'm most probably wrong
22:22:17 <oklopol> where n is the number of chars in the shorter str
22:22:31 <Figs> isn't the operation based on the slowest possible case?
22:22:45 <oerjan> yep, so it's O(n) regardless.
22:22:47 <Figs> O(n) or better
22:23:06 <oklopol> well, okay, but quicksort is O(n^2) then
22:23:42 <oerjan> but O() doesn't really say anything about worst or average
22:23:52 <Figs> wait... which is better, O(k^n) or O(n^k)?
22:24:25 <oerjan> yep, k^n is exponential
22:24:42 <Figs> what's n^k? polynomial?
22:24:51 * Figs is not big on Big-O
22:25:04 <Sukoshi> The derivative is also exponential, assuming n > 2.
22:25:06 <oerjan> anyhow even with average case it will be O(n) unless the fraction of strings that are equal goes to zero.
22:27:42 <Figs> I'm reading old tutorials
22:27:50 <Figs> probably circa 1995
22:29:28 <Sukoshi> XP meaning the number of the beast, no?
22:29:47 <Figs> Microsoft Windows XP... yes
22:30:46 <Sukoshi> XP looks like a smily. It can't be the name of an OS, can it ?
22:31:54 <oerjan> i am pretty sure both are available.
22:32:09 <Sukoshi> Does anyone actually use F# ?
22:33:59 <oklopol> okay, i made 1000 tests with length 50 strings, 1.371 was the average number of single character comparisons
22:34:13 <oklopol> i might have done something wrong :)
22:34:46 <oklopol> well, only 1/28 require > 1 comparisons
22:34:52 <oklopol> i had 50 different strings
22:35:04 <oerjan> it depends greatly on where the strings come from.
22:35:28 <oerjan> if you are comparing two random strings, then it will be something like O(log n)
22:36:07 <oerjan> but if you are comparing two strings that might actually be from the same source, it will be O(n).
22:36:40 <oklopol> i'll do it with 5 different strings
22:37:02 <oklopol> 5.7 tries, length 50 strings
22:38:13 <oklopol> but, well, any excuse to write a program :)
22:43:55 <oklopol> ~bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
22:44:32 <oklopol> !ul (Just checked whether i still was here)S
22:44:33 <EgoBot> Just checked whether i still was here
22:45:06 * CakeProphet is pondering COMPUTER ARCHITECTURES loudly.
22:45:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
22:47:45 <CakeProphet> ...what's the difference between a register and a stack, exactly?
22:48:28 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:48:39 <oerjan> like that a register holds only _one_ value?
22:49:25 <CakeProphet> As far as I know... a register is just a block that you stuff something in.
22:53:38 <CakeProphet> ah okay... a register is basically... a single unit of information.
23:06:44 <lament3> CakeProphet: a _register_ is a hardware term.
23:06:48 <lament3> it is not a data structure.
23:07:19 <lament3> registers are named places where CPU stores values.
23:07:20 * CakeProphet suddenly feels like he's being cornered for something nasty he said. :/
23:07:59 <CakeProphet> I was just confused over whether a register was intended for holding multiple units of information or just one.
23:08:29 <CakeProphet> when I imagine a register I imagine a big jar of data that you can fetch stuff from... but now I realize it's singular.
23:09:49 -!- Figs has joined.
23:13:30 -!- jix__ has changed nick to jix.
23:14:58 <Figs> duck typing, or implicit typing?
23:16:20 <Figs> data and instructions are the same thing!
23:16:41 <Figs> it'd be funny to take a program and use the code to build output messages
23:17:03 <Figs> obfuscation, ftw
23:20:35 <CakeProphet> hmmm... it's a shame that instruction jumps take less effort than modifying the program... in assembly.
23:20:57 <CakeProphet> ...at least - with my shoddy conceptualization of a comptuer
23:20:59 <Figs> you should look at the Synthesis Kernel :)
23:21:20 <Figs> Cake, are you 7"B?
23:21:45 <Figs> I didn't put 2 and 5 together to get Cake. :|
23:21:58 * Figs adds 6 and 1... cake?
23:22:13 <CakeProphet> hmmm... well, I guess it depends on how you build the computer which one goes quicker...
23:33:30 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:33:51 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
23:38:13 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("Bi-la Kaifa").
23:55:30 <Sukoshi> Go outside and hope enough charge accumulates in the clouds to exceed the dielectric capacity of air.
23:58:22 <bsmntbombdood> a machine where the only storage is a single natural number
23:58:30 <oerjan> Myself, I would not lightly assume that death cures boredom.