01:01:01 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
01:17:56 -!- atrapado has quit ("sumaesuma").
01:21:31 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("Away for the weekend, don't expect me back until sunday evening CET, at the very earliest").
02:47:03 -!- jix__ has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
03:15:15 -!- Pikhq has quit ("Leaving.").
03:16:54 -!- Pikhq has joined.
03:23:44 -!- Sukoshi has quit ("Yah.").
03:24:31 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
03:36:06 -!- Pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:44:34 -!- Sgeo has joined.
04:03:41 -!- Figs has joined.
04:04:04 <Figs> http://www.faisal.com/geek/opcodes.txt
04:22:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
05:02:44 -!- ShadowHntr has joined.
05:03:03 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
05:13:57 <GregorR> If you brought your bot in, that'd be three ...
05:14:54 <GreaseMonkey> just as long as there are more people than bots (except #botpark ), it's fine
05:35:19 -!- Sukoshi has joined.
06:12:41 <GreaseMonkey> operbot = a bot that does op stuff for your chan
06:13:04 <lament> will it ban everybody from #esoteric?
06:13:24 <GreaseMonkey> no it won't unless you make it do that in the source
06:14:13 <lament> so yeah, like chanserv
06:18:29 <lament> chanserv can op people
06:18:36 <lament> as well as set channel modes and stuff
06:19:36 <lament> it can still op you and then you kick the person yourself.
06:19:46 <lament> and kicking is practically useless anyway.
06:20:13 <GreaseMonkey> note that `kick foo is faster than /cs op greasemonkey then /kick #chan foo
06:20:15 <Figs> access of 8 for voice? O.o
06:20:35 <Figs> `kb foo barmsg
06:21:23 <Figs> (+v all good citizens, +m channel)
06:22:01 <lament> i still fail to see how is this useful
06:22:24 <Figs> it's useful because you flex your coding muscles :P
06:22:25 <lament> if you want to kick people so badly
06:22:42 <lament> or do you want to be an undercover op that jumps out and kicks people randomly?
06:22:44 <Figs> whoo! Hydrogen.
06:22:49 <GregorR> lament: I WANNA KICK PEOPLE! Can I have ops ZOMG 8-D
06:23:08 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o GregorR.
06:23:32 <lament> the reign of terror!!!
06:23:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
06:24:24 -!- GregorR has set channel mode: +b %bsmnt_bot!*@*.
06:24:40 <Figs> you guys have access at 30? O.o
06:24:46 -!- GregorR has set channel mode: -b %bsmnt_bot!*@*.
06:24:52 -!- GregorR has set channel mode: -o GregorR.
06:25:22 <lament> taaus hasn't been here for 2 years :(
06:25:43 <Figs> 2y 8w 3d 14h 45m 41s
06:25:50 <lament> aardappel for a year and a half... :(
06:26:06 <Figs> as of 4/5/07 19:22:13 GMT-10
06:26:09 <lament> aardappel is a genius, taaus is just cool
06:28:27 <Figs> I have to log in? :(
06:28:51 <Figs> and no bmn access!
06:36:50 <Sukoshi> I propose a non-esoteric project.
06:36:58 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:37:03 <Sukoshi> In a non-esoteric language.
06:37:19 <Figs> I'm already working on it :D
06:37:30 <Figs> http://student.hpa.edu:16080/weblog/cmcfarland/ProgrammingDesign/
06:37:38 <Sukoshi> A cross-platform PDF viewer.
06:37:49 <Figs> I'm not working on it :P
06:37:58 <Sukoshi> Completely cross-platform. Maybe a little bit of bootstrap code per platform, but hopefully not.
06:38:15 <Sukoshi> Language of design: ObjC, OCaML, or Java -- in order of speed.
06:38:35 <Figs> Wot? No C++? :(
06:38:54 <Figs> yeah, yeah, yeah... :P
06:38:59 <Sukoshi> No. I said no esoteric languages :P
06:39:15 <Figs> you should see some of the weirder stuff I write in C++...
06:39:45 <Sukoshi> I once attempted to wrap a SWIG wrapper around C++ code that heavily used Boost and templates.
06:39:55 <Sukoshi> I suddenly found a new disrespect for the language.
06:40:15 <Figs> well, templated/boost code can get very hard to read if you aren't careful
06:40:25 <Sukoshi> SWIG lets you use C/C++ code in languages that support SWIG wrappers without a specific FFI built-in for the language.
06:40:26 <Figs> (although things like boost::any are quite clean, imo.)
06:40:35 <Sukoshi> I mean, I'm not an actual C++ coder after all.
06:40:58 <Sukoshi> Someone proposed OCaML earlier.
06:41:27 <Figs> I'm a C++ coder... it's what I know :P
06:41:41 <Sukoshi> So it's the only thing your head has enough room left for :P
06:42:01 <Figs> are you kidding?
06:42:24 <Figs> I wouldn't say it's _terrible_
06:42:31 <Figs> but it is rather annoying sometimes
06:43:14 <Sukoshi> That's what makes it terrible.
06:43:35 <Sukoshi> I like languages which I don't have to devote my entire life to to code in.
06:45:13 <Figs> I haven't devoted my whole life to C++
06:45:16 <Figs> I'm only 18 :P
06:45:40 <Figs> although admittedly, it's taken me about 5 years to get "good" at it
06:46:09 <Figs> ... I wish C++ had a 'finally' key word :|
06:46:16 <GregorR> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/
06:46:19 <Figs> it'd save so much fucking trouble
06:46:27 <GregorR> and http://dgcc.sourceforge.net/
06:47:22 <Sukoshi> I'm younger than you, and I don't want to be your age by the time I become profficient at it :P
06:47:35 <Sukoshi> The reason I don't want to use D is that it's not well-enough-known yet.
06:47:50 <Sukoshi> I want something that compiles to a lot of platforms.
06:48:33 <Sukoshi> I'm tired of having either Xpdf and I-leak-memory-like-a-burst-blood-vessel Poppler in t3h *nix world and Adobe's locked-in proprietary thingamabobber in Windows.
06:49:59 <Sukoshi> Plus it has Advanced Add-Ons you can pay for.
06:50:45 <Figs> it bothers me too a bit
06:51:19 <Figs> you should program your pdf viewer in brainfuck :)
06:51:23 <Sukoshi> So, any takers for the project?
06:51:43 <Figs> google code has project hosting?
06:51:46 <Sukoshi> Well, I was also seriously considering Forth, because it's stack-based just like PS/PDF so....
06:52:13 <Figs> C++ has stacks :D
06:53:07 <Sukoshi> C++ probably has Your Mom also.
06:53:49 <Figs> ^^^ -- there's the point!
06:53:51 <Sukoshi> No. That's a period/full-stop.
06:54:06 <Figs> I can call it a 'point' if I really want to ... :)
06:54:12 <Sukoshi> A point has an infinitely small thickness, remember?
06:54:24 <Figs> "This project currently has no issues."
06:54:58 <bsmntbombdood> Sukoshi: shouldn't be hard to make it cross platform
06:56:09 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
06:56:48 <Sukoshi> Work will begin after AP tests finish.
06:56:53 <Figs> My feet are hairy.
06:57:03 <Figs> I just realized this.
06:57:12 <GregorR> .....................................
06:57:43 <Sukoshi> What about Java, bsmntbombdood? :P
06:57:53 <Figs> GregorR: I'd hope so... otherwise you'd be bald.
06:58:04 <Sukoshi> It's not that bad, if you code correctly.
06:58:17 <Figs> Sukoshi: That's what they say about C++ :)
06:58:39 <Sukoshi> The only reason Java might not fly is speed.
06:58:40 <Figs> Java is mostly C++ with a few changes.
06:58:53 <Sukoshi> You mean, a syntax that doesen't make you barf?
06:58:53 <Figs> don't write your project in Java
06:59:30 <Sukoshi> Garbage collection. Exceptions.
06:59:38 <Sukoshi> No explicit memory management.
06:59:43 <Sukoshi> C++ has garbage collection?
06:59:46 <GregorR> Java has eliminated everything that doesn't fit their "OO is the only way" concept.
07:00:15 <Figs> there are a couple ways of doing GC either directly in C++ or on top of it
07:00:28 <Sukoshi> There are ways of doing GC in C too.
07:00:43 <Figs> although it isn't built in, but neither is std::vector
07:01:06 <GregorR> <-- officially no longer part of this conversation.
07:01:17 * Sukoshi officially pulls Gregor back in.
07:01:34 <Figs> heh, I didn't say C++ was better than java
07:01:46 <Figs> I just said it was about the same in terms of the way it's built. there's a difference ;)
07:01:56 <Sukoshi> C++ isn't in my list of languages. So there.
07:02:15 <Sukoshi> Java, OCaML, ObjC and why.
07:02:24 <Sukoshi> bsmntbombdood: Mmmm. I beg to differ.
07:02:35 <Figs> Sukoshi: have you used open-office?
07:02:36 <Sukoshi> Ever coded a significant application yourself?
07:02:48 <Sukoshi> Rather than rely on cr** code other people make?
07:03:06 <Sukoshi> Yeah. I coded an NN framework and a small signal process framework in it.
07:03:26 <Sukoshi> Both fast and light, and this is an aging machine. (1.6 GHz, 256 MB RAM).
07:03:54 <Sukoshi> Even while using double-point floats almost everywhere.
07:04:13 <GregorR> Blah blah blah, this is better that is better, blah blah blah, my god has a bigger penis than your god, blah blah blah.
07:04:40 <Sukoshi> Anyways, I have Physics to cram for. Squabble it out for yerselves.
07:05:58 <Figs> GregorR: Your god has a penis? :P
07:06:36 <GregorR> Figs: In a totally non-homoerotic way.
07:06:50 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: my penis has a bigger god than brainfuck's
07:07:25 <GregorR> Figs: Then my god does have a bigger penis than your god. Therefore I win all arguments.
07:07:49 <Figs> I don't have a god, therefore the argument is 'N/A' :P
07:08:05 <Figs> your god can't have a bigger penis than something that doesn't exist ;)
07:08:13 <Figs> even imaginatively ;)
07:08:56 <Figs> that's like saying an apple is bigger than the number zero.
07:09:18 <Figs> it is. It's an illogical comparison ;)
07:13:59 <GregorR> I declare this conversation over.
07:14:51 <GregorR> Now, everybody go talk about how whootsy http://www.codu.org/plof/ is :)
07:14:55 <GregorR> (The language, not the web site ;)
07:15:38 <Figs> but F is the null pointer!
07:16:06 <Figs> if there is no x in F?
07:16:28 <Figs> my empty set is bigger than your empty set?
07:16:31 <Figs> Oh yeah? Prove it.
07:19:50 <Figs> Vacuous: noun. (1) Emptied of or lacking content. (2) marked by lack of ideas or intelligence: stupid, inane.
07:21:33 <Figs> John found good igloos?
07:22:06 <Figs> jfgi? webster. :P
07:22:41 <Figs> and if you meant your argument, no thanks. I don't want penis in my browser. :P
07:23:07 * Figs changes the subject
07:23:37 <Figs> put lead on food?
07:24:14 <Figs> I saw function <linebreak>thick
07:24:17 <Figs> and I read "fuck"
07:24:27 <Figs> "Fuck is a keyword???"
07:25:13 <Figs> pitiful licking of french fries!
07:25:51 -!- ShadowHntr has quit ("End of line.").
07:26:03 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: ~ is concatenation. ~= is to ~ as += is to +
07:27:26 <bsmntbombdood> should the function in foreach be given the current element?
07:28:19 <GregorR> That's commented out because I don't have an implementation of it yet :P
07:28:36 <GregorR> That was from the leading edge of Plof1.
07:31:17 <Figs> `night bsmntbombdood
07:33:38 -!- nazgjunk has joined.
07:35:02 <Figs> go get some zzz.
07:36:38 <Figs> ZZZ!!!! <BANG>
07:36:55 <Figs> *the ZZZ-machine has explosmed.*
07:59:11 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("Bi-la Kaifa").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:54:42 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
09:18:53 -!- sebbu has joined.
09:23:28 -!- gg_ has left (?).
09:31:28 <Figs> do you know the meaning of the word 'deasil'?
09:36:58 <Figs> anyone here who cares enough to look the word up :P
09:37:25 <Figs> hint: it's the opposite of widdershins
09:37:43 <Sukoshi> I don't think there are any you's here then.
09:42:29 <Sukoshi> Figs: Go and spend that time doing something useful.
09:42:33 <Sukoshi> Like making more Esolangs.
09:43:35 <Figs> abscotchalater: n. one hiding from the police.
10:05:08 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
10:34:38 -!- Figs has left (?).
10:44:08 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gnight, and remember to troll the #teamloosh channel on irc.bluehell.org").
10:48:52 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
11:19:49 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa").
11:35:00 -!- jix__ has joined.
13:19:52 -!- Pikhq has joined.
13:41:40 -!- Pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:19:58 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
14:48:24 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
15:05:15 -!- nooga has joined.
15:07:46 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
15:09:45 -!- sebbu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
15:09:45 -!- sp3tt has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
15:09:49 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
15:10:11 -!- sp3tt has joined.
16:02:05 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined.
16:02:34 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit (Client Quit).
16:30:55 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:51:39 -!- CRathman has joined.
17:16:10 -!- kbrooks has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:58:47 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
18:19:31 -!- Pikhq has joined.
18:28:40 -!- helios24 has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)).
19:33:42 -!- CRathman_ has joined.
19:41:47 -!- CRathman has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
19:44:10 -!- helios24 has joined.
19:44:46 -!- Pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:08:37 -!- atrapado has joined.
20:43:46 -!- ihope has joined.
20:44:41 <ihope> Is there a formal definition of Turing-completeness?
20:46:26 <atrapado> ihope, yes: turing machines, lambda calculus
20:46:46 <ihope> Is "Turing machines, lambda calculus" it?
20:48:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:48:25 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:14:19 -!- Pikhq has joined.
21:17:05 <lament> ihope: look up the church-turing thesis on wikipedia...
21:21:52 <ihope> I don't see a definition there, other than "Any non-interactive computer program can be translated into a Turing machine, and any Turing machine can be translated into any Turing complete programming language".
21:24:42 <lament> i suppose there's a more formal statement of the thesis by the saints themselves
21:25:48 <ihope> Turing-completeness, not the Church-Turing thesis...
21:26:20 -!- jix has joined.
21:27:00 <ihope> Related, yes, but I'm looking for a definition of Turing-completeness.
21:28:49 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:34:34 -!- jix__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:41:59 -!- ShadowHntr has joined.
22:26:12 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
22:26:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:30:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
22:33:40 -!- ShadowHntr has quit ("End of line.").
22:37:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
22:38:00 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
22:38:56 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:42:28 <Sukoshi> Which should I use for a PDF viewer: Java, OCaML, or ObjC and why?
22:42:53 * oerjan ponders the nonexistence of the CFC (Catch Fire and Continue) instruction.
22:43:47 <oerjan> ocaml because it pwns all the others mentioned
22:44:59 <oerjan> alternatively you could use Scala if you want JVM support.
22:45:41 <Sukoshi> The language has to be relatively common.
22:47:19 <CRathman_> python has a nice pdf library available
22:47:22 <ihope> oerjan: f00f (or so it's called) comes close.
22:47:28 <ihope> Erm, wait a minute.
22:47:35 <Sukoshi> I don't want to depend on an external library.
22:49:27 <ihope> I mean... ah, never mind.
22:51:36 * oerjan thought for a moment ihope was responding to the PDF question and wondered what programming language f00f was...
22:52:22 <ihope> Maybe I'll design an esolang and call it f00f, and add a CFC instruction.
22:52:38 <ihope> It also damages the ozone layer!
22:52:50 <oerjan> ah yes! and added bonus.
23:00:43 <Sukoshi> No-one's lobbying languages.
23:02:48 <ihope> Let's write a programming language that has a market economy instead of a command economy.
23:03:37 <ihope> There are a bunch of individuals, which are issued... things which they can trade to each other.
23:03:41 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: you did?
23:03:49 <bsmntbombdood> <bsmntbombdood> ObjC, because it's fast and looks interesting
23:04:38 <Sukoshi> No-one's lobbying other than bsmntbombdood :(
23:04:51 <Sukoshi> And <oerjan> ocaml because it pwns all the others mentioned
23:05:34 <ihope> Objective-C has a market economy?
23:08:17 <ihope> ...maybe the individuals go around reproducing and evolving and dying and stuff, and the only way you can do anything is by controlling the Fed.
23:13:10 <ihope> "If you output this character, I'll give you a dollar."
23:14:03 <ihope> Just make it so that the only trade you can do is buying and selling. That way, no trade can happen unless there's money in the world.
23:15:03 <ihope> The amount of money determines the amount of trade: if there's only one indivisible unit of money in the world, everything is either available for free, not available, or available for the price of one unit.
23:15:05 -!- CRathman_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]").
23:15:52 <ihope> Stuff with utility probably won't be free, so that means that which is available costs one unit.
23:17:29 <oerjan> btw i suspect Scala is as portable as Java, being built on top of it.
23:18:33 <oerjan> i wouldn't know for sure, since i have never actually tried it.
23:23:39 -!- atrapado has quit ("atra pa do").
23:26:19 <ihope> main = getContents >>= putStr
23:26:26 <ihope> Haskell is very different indeed.
23:26:59 <ihope> I very much hope you can write a better cat program than that in Python.
23:27:35 <ihope> Or is that not only copy-input-to-output but a concatenator?
23:28:17 <ihope> oerjan: that too, yes.
23:28:44 <ihope> main = getContents >> putStr ""
23:28:48 <CakeProphet> that was actually a library for Python generators I was messing with... making a cat program out of it sounded like a good test.
23:28:52 <ihope> A different kind of zero program.
23:29:18 <oerjan> that getContents seems somewhat redundant
23:31:40 <oerjan> main = getChar >>= putChar >> main
23:34:48 <Sukoshi> I can write a shorter one in BASH.
23:38:35 <ihope> I'd say main=interact id is the winner.
23:39:02 <ihope> This is not a quine: main=main
23:40:13 <oerjan> import System.Environment; main = getArgs >>= mapM_ (putStr . readFile)
23:43:24 <oerjan> import System.Environment; main = getArgs >>= mapM_ ((putStr =<<) . readFile)
23:48:28 <ihope> Indeed, good luck putStr'ing that.
23:49:05 <oerjan> what, something wrong with it?
23:49:15 <bsmntbombdood> import readline, sys; for i in readline.readline(): sys.stdout.write(i)
23:49:46 <ihope> You corrected it for a reason, aye?
23:59:24 <oerjan> main = flip mapM_ [putStr, print] $ flip ($) "main = flip mapM_ [putStr, print] $ flip ($) "