00:09:24 -!- goban has joined.
00:30:39 -!- goban has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:34:51 -!- goban has joined.
00:36:34 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:52:32 <bsmntbombdood> that map is public record and denying me access to it is punishable by 90 days in jail
00:52:37 <bsmntbombdood> according to the colorado revised statutes, title 24, section 72, part 2
01:26:28 -!- jix__ has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
02:07:04 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined.
02:13:09 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]").
02:20:04 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: what map?
02:25:33 <ihope> Here, have a law: if an emergency vehicle is approaching, pull over and stop.
02:26:06 <ihope> Apparently no exception is made for freeways.
02:29:18 <ihope> Oh, I was wondering and... apparently I felt like saying that.
02:33:50 <bsmntbombdood> i hate how in a torrent with many files, all the files are 50% done instead of half of them all done
02:36:36 <ihope> Seems that if you're on a freeway and there's an emergency vehicle in the thing connecting the two roads, you're supposed to move one lane "apart" from the vehicle if possible.
02:37:14 <ihope> What does "one lane apart" mean, exactly?
02:37:29 <ihope> With one lane between the vehicles, or one lane over?
02:37:42 <ihope> That is, not in the same lane?
02:39:00 <pikhq> That describes most of the US.
02:39:16 <pikhq> Especially our fondness for urban sprawl and a lack of decent public transportation.
02:43:47 <Sukoshi> If you have knowledge and don't use it, you're a hippy.
02:44:19 <ihope> I guess the government's decided that 120 MPH is the fastest relative we want to have in a head-on collision.
02:44:28 <ihope> s/relative/relative speed/
02:44:55 <bsmntbombdood> wrong, if you're talking about the federal government
02:45:08 <ihope> I said just "the government" for a reason :-P
02:45:28 <ihope> Are there higher speed limits than 55 for two-way traffic elsewhere?
02:45:32 <bsmntbombdood> 75mph is the fastest speed limit allowed if you want to receive highway funding
02:45:36 <ihope> Heck, are there higher speed limits here?
02:46:03 <ihope> Freeways... there's nothing for a while, and then suddenly there's an on-ramp and you find yourself between two cars when there are only two lanes. :-)
02:46:10 <bsmntbombdood> that is, a state must have a maximum speed limit <= 75mph to get highway funding
02:46:35 <ihope> Can states have a speed limit of 75 on a two-way road?
02:47:03 <bsmntbombdood> i think states can have whatever speed limits they like
02:47:35 <ihope> Well, yeah, but if they want highway funding.
02:47:39 <ihope> "In 1865, the revised Locomotive Act reduced the speed limit to 4 mph in the country and 2 mph in towns." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit
02:48:18 <bsmntbombdood> that is of dubious constitutionality, in my opinion
02:57:52 <Sukoshi> http://www.isbc.com/business/mistakes.cfm
03:16:09 -!- ihope_ has joined.
03:16:46 <ihope_> There. Now that everything's upgraded and I have my wireless connection working again, I can actually start work on that Unlambda interpreter.
03:22:47 <bsmntbombdood> i wonder if you can implement call/cc with tree-rewriting
03:25:28 <ihope_> Rather, a continuation monad.
03:27:34 <ihope_> Parsing into a Haskell data structure and then running.
03:29:48 <bsmntbombdood> write an unlambda to brainfuck compiler in unlambda
03:32:52 <ihope_> Why not a Haskell-to-Unlambda compiler?
03:33:34 <bsmntbombdood> although simplified haskell to unlambda might be interesting
03:33:36 * ihope_ decides that adding a useful combinator to Unlambda is worth removing its comment functionality
03:34:08 <bsmntbombdood> haskell is just too complicated to write a compiler for fun for
03:34:33 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal").
03:36:34 <bsmntbombdood> i have no idea how to compile a functional language to bf
03:38:43 <pikhq> PEBBLE functions. :p
03:42:40 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
03:43:57 <pikhq> No, I mean "functions" as in "they work".
05:29:59 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit.
06:54:44 -!- olsner has joined.
07:16:23 -!- cherez has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:41:09 <oklokok> (bsmntbombdood) i hate how in a torrent with many files, all the files are 50% done instead of half of them all done <<< get a good torrent program...
07:44:18 <oklokok> you have to manually tell it to dl them one by one though
07:44:43 <oklokok> you can assign separate dl speeds for individual files
07:46:40 <oklokok> i have no idea... but perhaps.
07:46:57 <oklokok> i have a feeling there are decent programs for unix as well...
07:47:49 <oklokok> actually, the reason i'm doing my torrenting on this machine is that i can use torrent
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:09:44 -!- olsner has quit.
08:28:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
08:38:06 <Sukoshi> Deluge is the equivalent for *nix, bsmntbombdood.
08:38:18 <Sukoshi> Once I found Deluge, I pretty much abandoned my own torrent client.
08:38:25 <Sukoshi> (Even though I had most of it done.)
08:39:06 <Sukoshi> I'm going to start hacking at Deluge though. First thing I want to do is add stuff from BitTyrant's new BT paper.
08:39:51 <Sukoshi> They have a new piece obtaining and queueing algorithm to speed up a torrent.
08:53:43 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit.
09:03:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Success).
09:06:30 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
10:38:23 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("guess what that button did").
11:09:56 -!- jix__ has joined.
11:43:29 -!- ehird` has joined.
12:11:59 -!- jix__ has changed nick to jix.
12:32:16 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined.
12:34:22 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has left (?).
14:37:21 -!- wellons has joined.
15:17:55 -!- goban has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:40:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:40:38 -!- puzzlet has joined.
15:44:49 <wellons> Does anyone know about a brainfuck implementation that can multithread several programs working on the same memory array?
15:46:25 <oklokok> seveninchbread did something like that
15:55:21 <oklokok> (i had to split to multiple lines for obvious reasons)
15:56:19 <oklokok> if sib comes here, you can ask him, though it isn't exactly that hard making it yourselfidy helfity
15:57:21 <wellons> i wrote something similar yesterday
16:01:49 <wellons> and, i don't see the reason for splitting to multiple lines... :-(
16:10:50 -!- sebbu has joined.
16:14:58 <wellons> you need subversion, use this command: svn checkout https://opensvn.csie.org/wbf2c/trunk wbf2c
16:15:36 <wellons> i have a website that explains things a bit here: http://www.cse.psu.edu/~wellons/bf/
17:31:57 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:33:52 -!- jix has joined.
17:35:14 -!- cherez has joined.
17:57:12 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
17:57:26 -!- jix has joined.
18:05:31 -!- Arrogant has joined.
18:14:41 -!- ihope has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:15:09 -!- ihope_ has joined.
18:19:45 <SimonRC> http://www.piepalace.ca/blog/asperger-test-aq-test/
18:24:34 <oklokok> "When I talk, it isn't always easy for others to get a word in edgeways. " like... it's hard to get to say something when i'm saying something?
18:24:56 <oklokok> i actually cannot translate "edgeways" there...
18:25:38 <GregorR> That's partially because the phrase is "can't get a word in edge-WISE"
18:25:58 <GregorR> And it means nobody will shut up for long enough to let you talk :)
18:26:02 <oklokok> i still don't know what it means there :<
18:26:12 <oklokok> so i totally failed what it mean
18:26:19 <GregorR> So when this guy talks, he just babbles on and on and on and nobody else can talk.
18:26:51 <GregorR> <GregorR> And it means nobody will shut up for long enough to let you talk :) << Was referring to the normal phrase, not his variation :)
18:27:29 <oklokok> "I would rather go to the theatre than a museum. " you'd have to pay me a lot to get me to either...
18:29:32 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving").
18:30:57 <Arrogant> I'd rather go to the moon than a theater
18:30:59 <oklokok> hmm... i can remember any phone number easily, for just about as long as i like... then again there's no way for me to remember a birthday... so i prolly get "average" on that just for having a weird memory
18:31:27 <oklokok> well, i can remember any number as long as it doesn't mean anything to me
18:31:43 <oklokok> when it gets a meaning, i remember the meaning
18:32:44 <oklokok> i have a feeling i'd get a better score if i actually talked to a doctor :P
18:34:16 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
18:34:58 -!- ihope has joined.
18:44:28 <wellons> You need javascript for it to work...
18:44:59 <ihope> Not that I answered all the questions honestly.
18:47:33 <sp3tt> I got like 120/140 on one once :(
18:48:48 <oklokok> well, i'm pretty good at getting friends, but people usually think of me as "the weird guy"
18:50:00 <oklokok> i really can't believe any of you is less geek than me
18:52:07 <ihope> I got it up to 49.
18:53:06 <oklokok> actually, i can easily think of any of those options suiting me
18:53:51 <oklokok> those are general big-picture questions, so i basically just pick a random situation i've been in and answer based on that
18:56:12 <oklokok> "I enjoy doing thing spontaneously." <<< thing is a character in addam's family
18:56:24 <oklokok> does this refer to masturbation?
18:56:43 <oklokok> like... hold on a min, i'll do some quick masturbation
18:59:17 <oklokok> i guess i'd have the same answer were it either
19:00:35 <Arrogant> doing thing is a bit different than masturbation
19:01:52 <oklokok> well, i'm deriving it from the fact "masturbation" means "desecrating the hand"
19:04:14 <oklokok> "bbl guys, gotta do some thing ->"
19:04:29 <oklokok> "i hope you mean something"
19:04:58 <oklokok> i hate how i always fail quoting
19:26:00 -!- GregorR has changed nick to GreorR.
19:32:47 <SimonRC> Actually I think it is "The Thing".
19:33:27 <poiuy_qwert> The Thing is a movie, Thing is the hand from The Adams Family
19:34:06 <oklokok> the thing is something by King?
20:17:30 -!- GreorR has changed nick to GregorR.
20:18:42 <ehird`> random idea for some snippit of code:
20:19:03 <ehird`> accepts mouse-written drawings, then using some kind of OCR, converts it into mathematical notation in real time
20:19:30 <ehird`> so you could e.g. draw 231, a line beneath it, then 500 beneath that, it'd convert it correctly, then display a latexified (or whatever) version at the same size, replacing the drawing
20:19:44 <ehird`> once you've drawn the whole thing, it'll be converted to latex + displayed as an image
20:19:53 <ehird`> and, presumably, you could evaluate it or whatever
20:20:08 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:20:57 <oklokok> hmm.. i'm not sure if it does that though... i just know it has something like that
20:21:07 <oklokok> prolly something ridiculously simple
20:21:08 <ehird`> well, i'll show a sort-of-example
20:21:15 <ehird`> i write "1 +" using my mouse
20:21:45 <ehird`> within some very short space of time (hopefully <1 second), it'll disappear and be replaced by whatever latex looks like when rendering the equivilent equation, at roughly the same size
20:21:46 <oklokok> have you seen the video where the guy draws a cart on a blackboard then draws a play button and makes it move?
20:21:50 <ehird`> same as i carry on with the expression
20:22:06 <oklokok> a touchpad that looks like a blackboard that was
20:22:43 <oklokok> you could draw strings and solid objects and make them move realistically in 2d
20:22:52 <ehird`> it'd be pretty nice to be able to, e.g., get a tablet
20:23:08 <ehird`> write some mathematical notation, look up at the app and see it in rendered latex form
20:23:09 <oklokok> also, your thing would be fun if you have a touchpad
20:23:15 <ehird`> and be able to evaluate it and stuff
20:23:54 <ehird`> like maybe if you wrote = and left it for a second it would evaluate :)
20:24:20 <SimonRC> might be good for code too...
20:24:22 <oklokok> hmm... an ski parser that did that would be fun :P
20:24:35 <oklokok> i know there's a flash thingie, but you don't draw anything in that
20:24:47 <SimonRC> IWBNI you could draw decision trees and tables and turn them into programs
20:25:06 <SimonRC> I am sure this has actually been done before, but not, I suspect, with handwriting recognition.
20:25:24 <SimonRC> Now there is a nice PhD topic
20:25:41 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
20:25:41 <ehird`> SimonRC: but i think mathematical notation lends itself to being written more than, e.g. a decision tree
20:25:56 <ehird`> anything mathematical is simplest when you write it
20:26:14 <ehird`> however, programming languages and decision trees and stuff - maybe not, they were designed for keyboard entry
20:26:40 <SimonRC> Have you seen a Haskell paper?
20:27:02 <SimonRC> Haskell as programmed in is a mere shadow of the notation that the programmers have in their heads
20:27:22 <SimonRC> in papers, the ASCII-art becomes nice math notations
20:28:01 <ehird`> when i program haskell i see haskell code... not mathematical notation
20:28:40 <SimonRC> (<- => -> become arrows, | bceomes a proper bar, ++ join together, <+> <*> become symbol-in-diamond, etc)
20:29:48 <oerjan> they use a preprocessor called lhs2tex
20:30:43 <SimonRC> I feel that that notation is the "real" Haskell, and the programmed format is an approximation to it.
20:31:01 <ehird`> i think haskell is what the haskell report defines it as.
20:31:18 <oerjan> the programmed format may be older.
20:32:18 <ehird`> show me an example of the notation
20:35:29 <ehird`> so i can see what it looks like
20:37:39 <ehird`> would this be a scientific, based-in-reality test or a quiz test
20:38:44 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.piepalace.ca/blog/asperger-test-aq-test/
20:39:22 <bsmntbombdood> it might as well be called a "social ability test"
20:40:00 <SimonRC> except for the bits about dates and telephones and obsession
20:41:07 <ehird`> i'll probably do shite on it
20:41:09 <ehird`> and i have no idea why
20:41:25 <ehird`> quiz/test-type things just always give the opposite of what i really am :p
20:42:57 <ehird`> WHERE is the submit button
20:43:07 <SimonRC> you fill it in, then you get an answer at the bottom
20:43:33 <lament> lots of scheme stuff replaces the word 'lambda' with the symbol lambda
20:43:43 <ehird`> " Scores over 32 are generally taken to indicate Asperger's Syndrome or high-functioning autism, with more than 34 an "extreme" score."
20:44:17 <ehird`> well; that fits considering i do have aspergers
20:45:36 <lament> at any rate, "texed" haskell certainly looks pretty
20:45:52 <lament> but ascii is not too shabby either
20:46:12 <ehird`> i think i got some of the questions wrong; anyway
20:46:22 <ehird`> i protrayed myself to be a bit more sociable than i am :p
20:47:20 <lament> i think the whole point of that test is that it examines your opinion of yourself, rather than what you actually are
20:47:30 <lament> for example, the first question "I prefer to do things with others rather than on my own."
20:47:35 <lament> that doesn't even mean anything
20:47:39 <lament> what kind of "things"?
20:47:54 <oklokok> sex is the only thing i like doing with other people
20:48:52 -!- wellons has quit ("ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)").
20:49:10 <lament> i certainly prefer to do foo, bar and baz with others, while qux and quux i will gladly do on my own.
20:50:39 <lament> "I am fascinated by numbers." - does this belong in a test on aspergers?
20:51:49 <bsmntbombdood> if there's any numbers in it, it's not abstracted enough
20:52:29 <oklokok> helios24 has always been a bit primitive to me
20:53:04 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: just think of numbers as the skeleton category of Set
20:55:27 <lament> wee, i got 26 on the test
20:55:44 <lament> barely beating a math contest winner
20:58:28 <lament> but of course it's useless without some sort of an indication of possible error size/probability
20:58:50 <lament> which i suspect to be around +- 10...
21:01:32 -!- olsner has joined.
21:03:47 <ehird`> irc needs some sort of unicode macro system
21:03:55 <ehird`> \+- transforms into ± or something
21:05:33 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
21:05:47 * ehird` finds a joined ++ in unicode so he can say "unicode is ++good"
21:12:12 <ehird`> someone should modify nethack and make it abuse unicode and control characters to hell
21:12:15 <ehird`> i bet you could get it looking really good
21:15:45 <ehird`> what about a unicode befunge
21:16:58 <ehird`> INTRODUCING THE ‽♯ PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE
21:17:06 <ehird`> Designed to be the first name solely in unicode.
21:17:22 <oklokok> my friend made unicode print quite cool mazes
21:17:44 <oklokok> ...yes, he programmed a maze generator in unicode
21:17:59 <olsner> is unicode turing complete?
21:18:16 <olsner> a maze generator *generating* unicode is a different matter entirely
21:20:43 <ehird`> turing complete unicode... that makes my mouth water
21:20:48 <ehird`> a turing complete CHARACTER SET
21:21:53 <RodgerTheGreat> just add some control characters that can do branching.... oooh...
21:23:24 <olsner> the algorithm for bidirectional rendering of text seems quite intricate though - a few carefully inserted extra rules could perhaps make it turing complete
21:24:13 <ehird`> i would love to see 99 bottles of beer in unicode using loops of some sort
21:24:30 <RodgerTheGreat> this is probably rather like my theory that HTML by itself is *very nearly* TC
21:25:19 <ehird`> it has nothing that would make it close to tc
21:25:28 <ehird`> it is in every way the archetypical markup language
21:25:50 <ehird`> that doesn't really count
21:25:53 <RodgerTheGreat> form elements and passed parameters via URLs also offer some possibilities
21:26:07 <ehird`> or HTML+some way to handle passed parameters
21:27:52 <RodgerTheGreat> I had an idea a while back for a network protocol in which the packet format represented a TC language that could be used for writing all kinds of networking utilities, games, file-transfer programs and viruses
21:28:17 <ehird`> sounds nicely esoteric
21:28:40 <olsner> RodgerTheGreat: make timing matter too ;-)
21:28:56 <olsner> the entire language is one big race condition, hehe
21:29:00 <RodgerTheGreat> and the fun part was that the system itself centered around being p2p- you'd "set up" a network by firing off a worm that would traverse the network and build routing databases on all the computers
21:30:02 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: don't allow the interpreter to access HD or just about any unprotected external data, of course
21:30:36 <bsmntbombdood> you can dos much easier if you're given a turing machine...
21:30:54 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: "scripts" - it's just binary data, right?
21:31:24 <ehird`> i think it should be low-level simple binary data... more like a protocol :)
21:31:33 <ehird`> make a simple assembler or something
21:32:02 <ehird`> obviously you want the data actually transmitted as compact as humanly possible
21:32:11 <RodgerTheGreat> self-modification and spawning new packets was a common practice, and the loopback device becomes really handy
21:32:13 <ehird`> otherwise the latency for something like, say the WWW, would be staggering
21:32:32 <oklopol> unicode could be tc if you added regexes natively and expanded them with a macro system
21:32:51 <oklopol> anyway, i'm gonna eat a food ->
21:35:18 <lament> I really love the idea of unicode macros
21:35:34 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: how many opcodes do you think you could squeeze it down to?
21:35:46 <lament> i wonder if there's an implementation alreday
21:36:08 <ehird`> you could name them 0-F for obvious reasons :P
21:36:23 <ehird`> though for actually using the assembler maybe you could think of some better mnemonics, hehe
21:36:31 <ehird`> allow asm macros, though, that act just like an opcode
21:36:39 <ehird`> using only 16 opcodes all the time would be teeeedious
21:37:29 <bsmntbombdood> the more opcodes, the less you need, and it's easier to program
21:37:32 <RodgerTheGreat> the spec was never finished, but I was also considering a high-level version that could be like "code"@AA.45.17.BB# to send a chunk of data off to the next machine
21:37:44 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: this is a >network protocol<
21:37:52 <ehird`> compactness is more important than anything
21:38:04 <bsmntbombdood> you would have to make everything memory-mapped, and you use more space anyway for the addresses
21:38:19 <ehird`> there's plenty of tricks you could do
21:38:45 <RodgerTheGreat> using a full char would allow for a wide range of opcodes with the added benefit of being able to punch in code in a normal text editor
21:39:26 <ehird`> sure, but it uses more space
21:39:33 <ehird`> and yeah, assembler is a must
21:39:53 <ehird`> 32 opcodes should be enough for everyone!
21:39:58 <oklokok> lament: i was just thinking something like kinda like bnf for the macro system... and have tc regexes inbuilt in unicode format. just out of curiosity is that was you had in mind too?
21:40:10 <olsner> 1 is also a power of 2
21:40:36 <ihope> "Your mom is so fat she sat on a binary tree and turned it into a linked list in constant time!"
21:40:44 <ihope> Technically meaningless, but still funny :-)
21:40:45 <lament> oklokok: i was just thinking of something like tex markup...
21:40:58 <ihope> (From SimonRC's link above)
21:41:15 <ehird`> making a useful machine with 16 opcodes would be a challenge indeed
21:41:22 <lament> oklokok: otherwise it would be too smart, and do stuff when you don't expect it to
21:41:40 <oklokok> i'll have to look up tex markup
21:41:43 <lament> (just because you type +-, doesn't mean you always want it turned into a single symbol)
21:42:28 <lament> of course it can't be tex markup, because then you won't be able to discuss tex markup :)
21:42:39 <lament> MSN simply uses (foo) for its markup
21:42:56 <lament> obviously that can't work in the context of programming discussions
21:43:09 <oklokok> people have so cute msn nicks
21:43:10 <oklokok> [c=3][c=38][c=27][c=23][c=29][c=46][/c]a[/c]n[/c]s[/c]k[/c]u[/c].krisu, joku teini<<33
21:43:39 <ehird`> (the eyes would bleed even more if i had msn plus and could see the colours)
21:44:12 <oklokok> i could see the colors if i put that option on, but i hate colors and i love ascii line noise so that works better for me
21:46:41 * ehird` wonders what's the smallest a single instruction could be cut down to
21:46:48 <ehird`> 4 bits for an opcode is reasonable..
21:47:12 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:47:14 <SimonRC> oh gods... http://bash.org/?8873
21:47:59 <ehird`> a jpg containing a screenshot of hello.jpg
21:48:11 <ehird`> hello.(jpg^aleph_0).jpg
21:48:24 <SimonRC> ehird`: indeed. The Tornado fighter used 4-bit opcodes
21:48:39 <ehird`> SimonRC: did it use 0-F as mnemonics? :p
21:49:24 <olsner> ehird`: do you *really* think it had mnemonics? :P
21:51:12 <ehird`> hm, opcodes don't need to be able to take immediate values
21:51:27 <ehird`> if you have a few registers..
21:51:55 <olsner> I guess you'd need load, store and some way to tell load and store where to load/store from/to
21:52:51 <olsner> OP <imm> --> LD addr-to-data,reg; OP reg
21:53:06 <olsner> but the address is a kind of immediate ;-)
21:53:17 <ehird`> i meant apart from the address :p
21:53:32 <olsner> then no, you wouldn't need immediates
21:53:37 <ehird`> all i need is LD addr <immediate>, ST addr <immediate> and addresses
21:54:49 * ehird` makes decisions for the architecture
21:54:55 <ehird`> i think i'll use a sign bit it's simple
21:57:42 -!- wellons has joined.
21:58:10 -!- Arrogant has joined.
22:35:50 <ehird`> what are the implications of -0
22:42:15 * ehird` thinks that he can squeeze a single opcode into 12 bits
22:43:35 <ehird`> INS INS INS INS ARG1 ARG1 ARG1 ARG2 ARG2 ARG2
22:43:43 <ehird`> where each argument is a register name
22:43:47 <ehird`> of course, LOAD and STORE would be exceptions
22:44:10 <ehird`> err, what am i talking about
22:44:47 <ehird`> INS INS INS ARG1 ARG1 ARG1 ARG2 ARG2 ARG2
22:44:56 <ehird`> then all of the components are balanced
22:46:05 <ehird`> ... good enough. 9 bits is insanely small!
22:47:25 <ehird`> and III gives me 8 opcodes
22:47:38 <ehird`> so what should i make it?
22:47:54 <ehird`> I I I 1 1 2 2 (SPECIAL QUANTUM CONTAINING BOTH A BIT OF 1 AND 2)
22:49:07 <ehird`> hmm, having LD and ST instructions longer than others could cause real problems
22:51:11 <ehird`> someone suggest an extremely compact instruction format :p
22:52:16 <bsmntbombdood> ...8 bit opcode, the following bits the operands, the number of which depends on the opcode
22:52:31 <ehird`> wait a minute, i should only need 2 bits for each argument
22:52:36 <ehird`> i mean, 3 registers is enough, right?
22:53:04 <ehird`> that'd all be done with some special instructions
22:53:26 <ehird`> LD REGISTER1 memaddr, MEM REGISTER1
22:53:29 <bsmntbombdood> ...some opcodes take 0 bytes of operand, some take 4
22:53:35 <ehird`> and then REGISTER1 would have the value at memaddr or something
22:53:43 <ehird`> and then you'd have MEMSET memaddr
22:53:56 <ehird`> i'm going for "frickin' tiny", not "extensible"
22:55:34 <ehird`> 1. relatively usable - if you're familiar with computer internals and asm, you should be able to program it with relative ease
22:55:37 <ehird`> 2. as tiny as possible
22:56:23 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:58:13 * ehird` wonders what bit-ness he should make the machine
22:58:47 <ehird`> question: is nop actually essential?
22:58:54 <ehird`> i mean, i think you could get away without nop most of the time
23:00:24 <ehird`> damnit why is my computer making very high pitched and very short beeps randomly
23:01:20 <ehird`> i really don't think NOP is needed
23:01:39 <olsner> I think NOP is the quintessential non-essential operation :P
23:01:58 <olsner> *perhaps* useful to fill branch delay slots though
23:02:03 <ehird`> it seems to get an absurd amount of use
23:02:18 <ehird`> one very unneeded thing is ifneq
23:02:25 <ehird`> ifneq X Y Z can just be:
23:05:30 <ehird`> if anyone has a convincing argument for it, tell me
23:05:57 <ehird`> olsner: LD addr-to-data,reg
23:06:05 <ehird`> olsner: how would you put this data in the address? :)
23:06:50 <olsner> ehird`: let's say addresses 0-200 is code and 200-250 is data... just LD 201,reg1 to load the contents of address 201 into register 1
23:07:10 <olsner> and ST reg1,201 would put a recalculated value back into memory
23:07:31 <ehird`> (modern assemblers have broken my soul :D)
23:07:46 <olsner> not really - it could be loading code into registers to modify itself
23:07:48 <ehird`> only 200 bits for code though? lame :P
23:08:19 <olsner> nah, just let bits 0-31 control the page number :P
23:09:21 <ehird`> i think i only need 2 bits for addresses
23:09:29 <ehird`> i mean, 4 addresses is enough to be comfortable with, right?
23:09:41 <ehird`> olsner: how would you personally define ST?
23:09:52 <ehird`> st reg,addr puts the value in reg in the memory addr?
23:10:23 <olsner> 4 addresses? that's just the same as having 4 registers though :P
23:11:33 <ehird`> of course i shall use more for addresses :)
23:11:38 <ehird`> "i think i only need 2 bits for REGISTERS"
23:12:35 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
23:12:57 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
23:13:01 <ehird`> i wonder how many bits i should use for addresses
23:14:05 <ehird`> only 128 places of addressable memory?
23:14:35 <ehird`> now i have to decide what size to use for the values stored in memory and registers ;)
23:16:48 <oklopol> people always ask for numbers, but then end up ignoring my nice numbers and having something boring like 16
23:17:27 <ehird`> maybe just 8-bit values :)
23:17:33 <oerjan> well since he is refusing our good luck numbers, i suggest we compromise on 13.
23:17:52 <ehird`> maybe 8-bit values + 4 registers + 8-bit addresses isn't enough?
23:19:05 <oerjan> 8-bit values + 4 registers + 8-bit addresses should be enough for anyone.
23:19:28 <ehird`> do you think it would be enough to implement simple things?
23:19:55 <oklokok> no one is ever really gonna need more than 640k memory
23:20:40 <ehird`> i can't take the sarcasm any longer :(
23:20:56 * oerjan gives ehird` a lollipop.
23:21:19 * oklokok does /me because it's so cool
23:21:58 <oklokok> ehird`: i actually haven't read the logs so i don't really know what you are making :P
23:22:09 <ehird`> oklokok: <ehird`> i'm aiming for
23:22:09 <ehird`> <ehird`> 1. relatively usable - if you're familiar with computer internals and asm, you should be able to program it with relative ease
23:22:09 <ehird`> <ehird`> 2. as tiny as possible
23:22:20 <ehird`> a computer architecture, obviously =p
23:22:49 <oklokok> ah, so making a simulated asm for fun?
23:24:26 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:25:18 <ehird`> brainfuck breaks rule 1
23:25:19 <ehird`> 1. relatively usable - if you're familiar with computer internals and asm, you should be able to program it with relative ease
23:25:49 <oklokok> brainfuck can be coded with relative ease if you learn the basic trixxors
23:26:09 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
23:26:47 <oklokok> brainfuck plus arithmetic operators, 4 bits per operator and it's pretty simple to program in
23:26:58 <ehird`> i am not looking to reinvent a brainfuck computer
23:27:16 <ehird`> i am looking to invent a very small architechture spec that is quite easy to program in if you know asm
23:27:45 <oklokok> you making like "the asm".
23:28:20 <ehird`> what the hell does that mean anyway
23:28:28 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving.").
23:29:54 <ihope> Well, you'll want it to be very parallel, I think.
23:30:10 <ihope> I think Game of Life is a decent platform.
23:30:25 <ehird`> i just want a simple low-powered computer that can still do 99 bottles of beer and some other stuff with at least mildly readable code
23:30:33 <ihope> Though maybe BBM with quantum extensions would be better.
23:30:55 <ihope> What, you want the assembly/machine code to be readable?
23:30:57 <oklokok> ihope: well done picking up where me and oerjan left
23:31:10 <ehird`> lots of asm code is readable
23:31:16 <ehird`> if you know some asm for some platform, that is
23:32:43 <ihope> Do you know what GCC does to multiply by 10?
23:32:50 <ehird`> ok, the only logic stuff i need is NOT, OR, AND, XOR i think
23:32:54 <ehird`> ihope: x86 asm is not readable
23:33:03 <ehird`> gcc-generated asm is not readable anyway
23:33:22 <ihope> Why do you want the assembly code to be readable?
23:33:34 <oklokok> yeah, who likes readability
23:33:48 <ihope> Why not use a compiler from a high-level language instead?
23:33:57 <ehird`> you really don't get the point of this
23:34:05 <ehird`> i mean readable as in not bloody brainfuck or unlambda!
23:34:11 <ehird`> i don't want some beautiful asm code
23:34:36 <oklokok> ehird`: not trying to make you mad, just tired.
23:35:06 -!- olsner has quit.
23:35:10 <ihope> What's wrong with BF and Unlambda, apart from the slowness?
23:35:22 <ehird`> they're hell to program in
23:35:40 <ihope> You want to program in the assembly language?
23:35:44 * ehird` has store, load, move, xor, and, or, not ... hmm .. what next
23:35:49 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: this is still esoteric :)
23:35:53 <ehird`> esoteric != hell to program in
23:36:00 <ehird`> ihope: At least 99bob, sure.
23:38:24 <ihope> So you want readable and small.
23:39:36 <ihope> Typed lambda calculus with data declarations/constructors?
23:39:55 <ihope> I guess you also want it to look like an assembly language.
23:42:44 <ihope> Wait, what do you mean by "small"?
23:43:11 <ihope> Rather, what do you want that I stated as "small"? :-P
23:43:55 <ehird`> http://pastie.caboo.se/86457 here's my instruction set design
23:44:00 <ehird`> i think i might have screwed a part up
23:44:49 <ihope> Doesn't look infinite memory-y.
23:45:20 <ehird`> i'll rectify it tomorrow
23:45:27 <ihope> Looks fine apart from that.
23:45:41 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric | NOTE TO EHIRD DO NOT REMOVE: \instructionset.
23:45:47 <ehird`> i shall continue it tomorrow
23:45:51 <ihope> Can't you send yourself a memo?
23:46:06 <ihope> Won't clutter up our topic that way.
23:46:11 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:49:16 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: how often is bsmnt_bot reset?
23:49:44 <ihope> How often does it quit?
23:50:56 <oerjan> ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Or we do")
23:50:57 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:50:57 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit ("Or we do").
23:51:01 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
23:52:49 -!- ihope has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric | NOTE TO EHIRD DO NOT REMOVE: \instructionset.
23:53:15 <ihope> At least that didn't do anything as far as I can tell :-)