00:00:49 <GregorR> mesm (adj): Transfixed in a state of wonderment.
00:01:11 <ehird`> m - high degrees of mesm
00:01:19 <GregorR> mesmerize (verb): To cause to be more mesm
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00:02:13 <GregorR> I think I'll use "mesm" all the time from now on.
00:02:17 <GregorR> I like this invented word.
00:10:48 <RodgerTheGreat> to operate without this warning, try IRP -XERROFF -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED.
00:11:31 <ehird`> IRP -XERROF -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED I'mesm back
00:13:41 <ehird`> IRP -XERROFF -XNOCACHE -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED I'mesm back
00:16:25 <RodgerTheGreat> IRP RUNTIME ERROR: TestingMyPatienceException(); ON LINE 1
00:16:40 <ehird`> IRP -PATIENCE:inf -SWITCHES:CACHE
00:16:52 <ehird`> IRP -PATIENCE:inf -SWITCHES:CACHE
00:17:09 <ehird`> i can see i will have to resort to brute force
00:17:22 <ehird`> [starting daemon, reply "go to hell" -> "IRP go to hell"]
00:18:14 <ehird`> [rebooting IRP system, renewed patience]
00:18:21 <ehird`> IRP what is the switch to disable cache?
00:19:09 <RodgerTheGreat> ERROR: HELP FILES NOT FOUND! msg="Further information is not available here."
00:19:29 <ehird`> IRP -XERROFF -CACHE:0 -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED I'mesm back
00:21:33 <ehird`> IRP -XERROFF -CACHE:0 -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED Please run newIRP3.14, the unofficial IRP implementation without the no-cache segfault bug.
00:22:32 <RodgerTheGreat> sorry, my implementation uses a neural-net based bugfixing system. Commandline arguments containing "CACHE" are no longer allowed.
00:23:15 <ehird`> IRP -XERROFF -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED Please run newIRP3.14, the unofficial IRP implementation without any cache implementation. (Note: keep the cache in the normal implementation, newIRP does not utilize it anyway.)
00:24:33 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: we are recalling language implementations of yore
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17:39:23 <SimonRC> zvchwk fitaly ne qdorsb qjumpx
17:39:43 <ehird`> what keyboard layout is THAT
17:40:19 <SimonRC> it is designed for pen input
17:40:22 <ehird`> are you having me on or is it a real layout? :P
17:40:36 <SimonRC> you can get it for PalmOS and it beats the built-in keyboard in every way
17:40:51 <SimonRC> there are two space keys either side of the ne
17:41:15 <SimonRC> my text entry instantly became much more reliable once I installed it
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17:41:18 <oklopol> i'd take anything to get rid of qwerty
17:41:34 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: you appear to lack the lwtter p
17:42:11 <oklopol> if the letters are dropped around randomly, i want to be the one who's done the randomization...
17:42:47 <ehird`> SimonRC: link to site?
17:43:37 <oklopol> also it'd be nice if the characters would change their positions every now and then so i'd have to relearn them
17:43:37 <SimonRC> http://www.fitaly.com/product/palmonscreen.htm
17:43:45 <SimonRC> there are many versions all over
17:43:56 <SimonRC> you need a thingy called "hackmaster" too
17:44:37 <oklopol> wut at which thing i said?
17:45:06 <SimonRC> <oklopol> also it'd be nice if the characters would change their positions every now and then so i'd have to relearn them
17:45:16 <SimonRC> that wouldn't be very nice for me
17:45:57 <oklopol> a bit of brainfuck is always welcome
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18:52:33 <GregorR> Of course, /me <3 PDAs and Tablet PCs too X-P
18:57:12 <RodgerTheGreat> http://img.waffleimages.com/d295812ff06a7092ed89cf34da589a91787c000d/hehe.jpg
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18:57:45 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: /me sooo lazy, wanna regive the comics page :P
18:59:30 <Fa1r> ERROR 404: INTERPRETER_NOT_FOUND on #irp ?
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19:00:35 <RodgerTheGreat> if you want a new IRP interpreter, find someone of the opposite gender and get "compiling". I'm told it takes about 9 months.
19:00:57 <Fa1r> Wher' do i get sources ?
19:01:46 <Fa1r> whoa \o/ .. let's have a party for the fact.
19:02:03 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: have you painted all of that?
19:02:08 <oklopol> or are some just random pics? :P
19:02:41 <RodgerTheGreat> pretty much everything in the images folder was created by me. What are you asking about, specifically?
19:04:15 <ehird`> i wonder how fitaly would work with a small-form keyboard
19:04:47 <RodgerTheGreat> oklopol: those are screenshots of a puzzle game I played online
19:05:03 <ehird`> its really damn hard :(
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19:09:06 <ehird`> i might buy a small-form keyboard
19:09:58 <RodgerTheGreat> fitaly is even better when your silkscreen is software based, like on my Handera 330.
19:18:18 * ehird` wonders if fitaly would really work that well with real keys
19:19:41 <ehird`> if thye keys were light enough?
19:20:12 <RodgerTheGreat> the key arrangement is designed around the finger motions necessary to point and tap on keys
19:25:45 <ehird`> i wonder what a keyboard based on letter frequency in general usage is
19:25:59 <ehird`> (if I'm not mistaken, etaoinsrhl / dcumfpgwy / bvkxjqz)
19:26:20 <ehird`> etaoinsrhl below the dcumfpgwy row of course, as it'd be the home row
19:27:23 <ehird`> ldcumfpgwy / etaoinsrh / bvkxjqz
19:28:05 * ehird` wishes there was a program that would take something like that and generate a keyboard layout simply -- for testing
19:28:14 <ehird`> maybe display it on screen too while you are testing
19:33:31 <ehird`> its actually etaoinsrhld
19:33:41 <ehird`> take that, age-old typewriter layouts!
19:34:35 <ehird`> books are always right
19:36:04 * ehird` dares someone to switch to ldcumfpgwy / etaoinsrh / bvkxjqz cold turkey
19:41:04 <oklopol> would be nice, i'd do it if it didn't actually mean i have to get something to change the meaning of my keys
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19:49:40 <oklopol> that meaning i'm too lazy to program/dl something for it
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20:59:05 <ehird`> http://elgoog.rb-hosting.de/index.cgi?dir=/&page=/codesearch%3Fhl=en%26q=hello,%5C+world%26amp;ct=hp
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21:02:15 <oklopol> let's hi them all, mwahaah
21:02:32 <oklopol> oh, you were indeed hi'ing me :P
21:03:16 <oklopol> i made my gol run like 20 times faster, and made it's ordo from O(cellcount*patterns) to O(patterns)!
21:03:27 <oklopol> now it only takes 5 minutes to run through one gol cycle!!!
21:03:58 <oklopol> hmm, actually i made tode run about 20 times faster...
21:04:02 <oklopol> the gol code wasn't changed
21:04:03 <ehird`> what is this written in? BCT?
21:04:12 <oklopol> tode, my new cool language! :DD
21:04:27 <oklopol> i wrote a 65656 line long GOL interpreter in it
21:04:51 <oklopol> it's a 2d array rewriting language
21:05:22 <oklopol> i was wrong, it definately takes more than 5 minutes xD
21:05:26 <ehird`> oh well just show me some example code
21:07:38 <oklopol> hmm, trying to find the link...
21:08:10 <oklopol> the name comes from "toad"
21:08:17 <oklopol> i didn't think of GOL when i made it
21:08:27 <oklopol> that was just something i thought the language might be good at ;)
21:08:38 <oklopol> turned out it failed more than anything has ever failed in anything :)
21:09:07 <ehird`> GOL should be really, really simple in an array rewriting languag
21:09:11 <ehird`> maybe your language just sucks :-)
21:09:13 <oklopol> but if i add a bit cleverer patterns, GOL will be a matter of just a few lines
21:09:15 <ehird`> paste the code somewhere
21:09:25 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p334335231.txt
21:10:00 <oklopol> it's like thue in that you cannot have anything but an *exact* pattern
21:10:03 <ehird`> do you... have an interpreter?
21:10:42 <oklopol> btw look in the bottom of the code and you'll see the board! :)
21:11:24 <oklopol> wait, i think my gol is wrong xD
21:11:38 <oklopol> it's nice to test it when it takes 15 minutes to run one cycle :DDDDDDDD
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21:13:39 <ehird`> you said it wasn't turing complete
21:13:47 <ehird`> Life is turing complete, with an infinite board.
21:13:55 <oklopol> well, the left pattern is the same size as the right pattern...
21:14:03 <ehird`> so... yeah. if you can represent an infinite life board (or just an automatically resizing one), it's TC
21:14:56 <oklopol> it doesn't currently resize, and because of the ascii nature, that might look a bit ugly
21:15:06 <oklopol> if it resizes to each direction
21:15:12 <oklopol> it could just resize right and down
21:15:19 <ehird`> well; just implement it somehow
21:16:15 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p112534342.txt <<< remember you asked for this, i already know my code is unreadable :)
21:16:35 <oklopol> in case you wanna tell me that again, i've heard it a couple of times
21:17:18 <ehird`> what do you have against spaces
21:17:23 <oklopol> actually, i could just ditch the asciiness and just make it a net that can resize anywhere
21:17:28 <ehird`> if a.__class__!=[].__class__: wtf
21:17:32 <oklopol> makes the code harder to read
21:18:08 <oklopol> well, as i said, i've heard all that
21:18:16 <oklopol> in fact, i've even heard that exact comment.
21:19:11 <oklopol> i've also heard you shouldn't do type testing like that at all...
21:19:30 <ehird`> by the way, i think i know the syntax of this language
21:19:39 <ehird`> a pattern is some arbitary ascii characters arranged into a block
21:19:41 <oklopol> it's pretty obvious from the example
21:19:50 <ehird`> x == y means "match x, change into y"
21:19:53 <ehird`> seperated by two enters
21:19:58 <ehird`> the last block is the default board
21:20:23 <ehird`> they seem to be executed in a very odd order
21:20:34 <ehird`> x == y, y == x, then "xyxyxy" on 3 lines seems to be pretty much random
21:20:42 <oklopol> basically my idea was to extend thue to 2d
21:21:18 <oklopol> but turned out i can't make the "from" pattern different size from the "to" pattern
21:21:19 * ehird` runs your life simulation
21:21:26 <oklopol> thought that wouldn't be a big deal...
21:21:39 <ehird`> add an optional bounding box
21:21:46 <ehird`> like `-----` for the top
21:21:47 <oklopol> once i actually started coding.... i realized it in fact makes it trivially not tc :<
21:22:00 <ehird`> blah = BOX bigger blah BOX
21:22:34 <oklopol> the GOL won't move for a while
21:22:47 <oklopol> since it has to check every pattern on the first cycle
21:23:08 <oklopol> once it starts moving, you can see the little v-character slowly moving downwards
21:23:27 <oklopol> it is the tode glider that makes the board mutate
21:24:09 <ehird`> i am trying to make a simple simulation
21:24:13 <ehird`> with a toad, actually :P
21:24:30 <ehird`> filled with: one t, many f and e
21:24:43 <oklopol> yeah, stuff like that is actually pretty fun
21:24:43 <ehird`> i'm trying to make t move to f
21:24:54 <ehird`> "arbitary amounts of X here"
21:25:12 <oklopol> but you should have stuff like mirroring for the rules and another language to help pattern mathings...
21:25:12 <ehird`> (which i need, to be able to move the toad around the board without enumerating every single possibility)
21:25:34 <oklopol> hehe, you can't do that really .P
21:26:41 <oklopol> just do like me and brute force each possibility of the length X pattern ;)
21:26:57 <ehird`> i'll make it 5x3 instead
21:27:36 <ehird`> i need to do diagonals too
21:27:43 <ehird`> :( please make it nicer :P
21:28:02 <oklopol> i think instead of managing to do a nice "more flexible thue", i've actually created the worlds suckiest language.
21:28:46 <oklopol> i created the language to test how hard parsing can be made, actually
21:28:53 <ehird`> this language is interesting
21:29:00 <ehird`> just add some more power to it
21:29:05 <ehird`> and it will be very interesting for coding stuff
21:29:13 <ehird`> automata coding will be trivial
21:29:17 <ehird`> even non-programmers could use it, i'd imagine
21:29:24 <oklopol> i'll make another small language to code stuff like "count neighbours"
21:29:34 <oklopol> by letting you put variables in the pattern.
21:29:55 <ehird`> that would be good actually
21:30:02 <oklopol> that way, instead of begin 65656 lines, GOL would be about 20 ;)
21:30:04 <ehird`> make tode what you have now, and various integrated sub-languages
21:30:15 <ehird`> and have them interact
21:30:17 <ehird`> that would be really cool
21:30:33 <ehird`> i think the first thing you should add though
21:30:36 <ehird`> is a wildcard i can use in patterns
21:30:40 <ehird`> meaning: "anything goes here"
21:30:51 <ehird`> and they have a number
21:31:04 <ehird`> and some syntax like $num in the replacement
21:31:08 <ehird`> would put the wildcard there
21:31:15 <ehird`> instantly, everything becomes much more simple
21:31:40 <oklopol> yeah, that would be a lot stronger
21:32:09 <ehird`> then add some way to make replacements bigger than sources
21:32:14 <ehird`> and already, you have a very powerful language
21:32:31 <ehird`> actually, you already have that
21:32:34 <oklopol> i'll add it tomorrow, right now i'm hooked on death note :|
21:32:41 <ehird`> since the patterns are seperated by blank lines
21:32:46 <ehird`> you can just put two grids like
21:33:26 <oklopol> currently, btw, the syntax might be a bit different than what your intuition might tell you
21:33:43 <ehird`> worth noting by the way:
21:33:45 <ehird`> IndexError: list index out of range
21:33:59 <oklopol> ah, must be my new optimization ;)
21:34:05 <oklopol> i didn't have much time to test it :P
21:34:32 <oklopol> pretty much everywhere? :P
21:34:53 <oklopol> the problem is the one without the optimization was a verrrry stupid one
21:35:16 <ehird`> it seems to happen when you run out of replacements to make
21:35:18 <oklopol> it actually tested every pattern for every subarray of the big array
21:36:13 <oklopol> ah, i see what the problem is
21:36:49 <ehird`> definately though, three things and this would be perfect:
21:37:02 <ehird`> a way to say "arbitary number of Xs", then copy that arbitary number in the output
21:37:11 <ehird`> a way to say "anything", then copy that thing in the output
21:37:17 <ehird`> a way to make replacements bigger than patterns
21:38:27 <oklopol> what would it mean actually, that the replacements were bigger?
21:38:41 <oklopol> because i simply don't know what would happen :|
21:38:50 <ehird`> just some way to expand the board
21:38:57 <ehird`> (also, what does the box above exec do?)
21:38:58 <oklopol> you can just expand to the right, and make room
21:39:03 <oklopol> but if you have a 2d array
21:39:18 <oklopol> you have to expand in both directions... and... i have no idea what the result should be
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21:40:37 <oklopol> word of warning: it's dangerous changing the code when it's running... somehow tkinter seems to deadlock or something no matter how cool threading i tried to add :D
21:41:09 <oklopol> and no, i'm not rereading the code while running
21:42:17 <ehird`> make it possible to run patterns ON THE CODE
21:42:20 <oklopol> ehird`: if you want replacements to be able to be bigger than the original array, please show me an example of one such replacement
21:42:38 <oklopol> but, not sure what the syntax would be, yet
21:43:09 <oklopol> hmm, you could just have the whole code be the thing to pattern match on, except rules wouldn't match themselves :P
21:44:03 <oklopol> that would require me to leave the code unparsed, and would slow it down quite a lot
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21:45:54 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: i forgot the movie you mentioned :|
21:46:19 <oklopol> ehird`: i was thinking i'd do stuff tomorrow, possibly that then, too
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22:05:48 * ehird` would love a screenshot of ii ;)
22:06:08 <ehird`> (irc client that has an in file and you cat to an out file to use it, haha... not much screenshot potential)
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23:44:28 <oklopol> a part of me wants to sleep, most of me thinks it'd be weak not to be able to watch a few episodes first.
23:47:10 <oklopol> i finally collapsed under the pressure of my anime-geek friends
23:47:38 <oklopol> usually it's that stupid swordplay, i can't stand that
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23:55:37 <GregorR> So, oklopol discovered anime porn.
23:55:48 <GregorR> A lot of "sword"play, yes.