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00:35:17 <pikhq> In the name of boredom, I have developed a new Brainfuck-based language.
00:35:38 <pikhq> Adds variables, strings, and some shorthand. . .
00:35:51 <pikhq> Newline, demonstration of shorthand.
00:36:02 <pikhq> :hello:"Hello, world!\n":hello:[>.]
00:36:14 <pikhq> Demonstration of strings & variables.
00:36:29 <ehird`> argh what was that saying about bf extensions again?
00:36:30 <ehird`> pretend i just said it
00:36:54 <pikhq> Like strapping things onto a skateboard to make a racecar?
00:37:50 <pikhq> What I do is more like strapping things onto a skateboard to entertain myself.
00:38:04 <pikhq> If I want a *serious language* out of it, I'd not start with Brainfuck.
00:39:00 <pikhq> Oh, it also adds comments.
00:39:34 <pikhq> {What's in here is guaranteed to never run. Yay!!! +-[]><.,}
00:40:33 <pikhq> Not exactly implemented anything yet. . .
00:40:38 <ehird`> what about {to do blah use command { etc etc}
00:40:42 <ehird`> but it has { in the comment text
00:41:09 <pikhq> Perhaps just use // to newline for comments instead.
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01:50:25 <ttm> [-][Here's another popular comment format. +-[]><.,]
01:51:01 <pikhq> ttm: I wanted to provide such a comment without having a cleared cell convenient.
01:52:16 <ttm> Usually ']' occur pretty often in a brainfuck program, and you can put a comment after any one of them without having to remember anything about program state...
01:52:27 <ttm> though you have to balance brackets within the comment.
01:54:22 <ttm> Anyway, no reason not to add a comment format. The thing that bugs me is when people add a comment format as their ONLY language extension, and then call the language "brainfuck" :)
01:55:50 <pikhq> What annoys *me* is when people add features to Brainfuck that demonstrate signifigant stupidity & lack of creativity. . .
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06:55:26 <GregorR-Win3> I'm on Windows 3.11 (in case you couldn't guess) :P
06:56:29 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: no, my life is perfect
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07:12:28 <oklopol> 3.11 was nice, i remember playing with it for hours when i was a kid
07:12:48 <oklopol> just changing the color theme was something so cool i almost pooped my pants
07:25:04 <GregorR-Win3> Now, djgpp + rsxntdj = modern compiler w/ Win32s support ...
07:25:15 <GregorR-Win3> And Open Watcom = semi-modern compiler with Win16 support ...
07:25:29 <GregorR-Win3> Somewhere in this, something amazing is waiting to be uncovered.
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12:06:35 <ais523> !daemon ul bf http://pastebin.ca/raw/367774
12:06:57 <ais523> Sorry, the topic told me to /query EgoBot, and I didn't realise at the time that would mean nobody else could use the Underload daemon
12:07:16 <ais523> there's the command to install it, anyway, if people want to use it in future
12:07:41 * ais523 is the sort of logreader who suddenly continues conversations that ended days ago with no warning
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12:45:37 <EgoBot> 1 ais523: daemon ul bf
12:45:39 <EgoBot> 2 immibis: daemon cat bf
12:46:14 <ais523> I've rejigged the Underload daemon to output here now
12:46:37 <oerjan> i'm just surprised it's still #1?
12:46:57 <ais523> well, presumably it doesn't change the number of a running process
12:47:14 <ais523> so 1 was the first free process number
12:47:45 <ais523> (by the way, my client is linking your comment to suggest you were referring to a channel called 1?)
12:48:34 <oerjan> why what a STUPID, STUPID client you have :P
12:49:34 <ais523> As far as I can tell, it predates automatic auth and also I haven't figured out a way to get it to take logs
12:49:56 <ais523> Feel free to CTCP VERSION me (as ever); you'll recognise the client's name, but it has a very low version number
12:50:25 <oerjan> i don't understand "predates automatic auth". Didn't the _original_ irc client have that?
12:50:37 <ais523> Just for fun, here's the version number of the attached browser: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414
12:51:06 <ais523> oerjan: if it did, it was more advanced than this client, or this client is really awful in trying to find options
12:51:22 <ais523> I meant 'this client's UI is so bad I can't figure out how to do it'
12:56:38 <oerjan> i am wondering if the passwords is a case of a feature starting to be used again after a long period of being so rare that new clients stopped supporting them...
12:57:14 <ais523> I hope the same happens with HTTP PUT
12:57:45 <ais523> GET requests may have been all that were used before, but with wikis beginning to take over, that's part of the spec that's just crying out to be implemented in all modern browsers
12:58:09 <ais523> (except IE, of course, which will implement something with vaguely similar functionality and entirely different syntax)
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14:53:39 <ehird`> hahah that is clever, i never thought of this:
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17:18:54 <GregorR> http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/
17:19:00 <GregorR> http://www.google.com/search?q=rsxntdj
17:22:53 <ehird`> djgpp is a dos compiler
17:23:36 <ehird`> rsxntdj is Really Stupid Xabbreviation Name To DJ Jam
17:24:08 <GregorR> rsxntdj is some garbage for DJGPP to make it compile for Windows.
17:24:25 <GregorR> More importantly, one of rsxntdj's supported targets is Win32s (unlike MingW etc)
17:31:01 <ehird`> (or should i say FORTH FUN)
17:31:17 <GregorR> Or should I say it fun is yes
17:31:30 <ehird`> i personally couldn't use it to develop real things right now (i'm not accustomed to it yet, it's still a bit alien to me) but it is really, really fun
17:31:34 <ehird`> i love the crazy compilation model
17:31:43 <ehird`> it's the most non-intuitive thing you could think of
17:32:15 <GregorR> Honestly, /me considers stack languages to be an excellent target of compilation, not so much an excellent type of language to write in :p
17:32:41 <ehird`> they're such fun though
17:33:52 <ehird`> : FAC DUP 2 <= IF DROP 1 ELSE DUP 1- FAC * THEN ;
17:34:00 <ehird`> ^ stupid factorial, but it looks fun :P
17:34:14 <ehird`> also, i don't think forth has fancy things like PRODUCT by default ;)
17:36:44 <ehird`> also, forth should always be written in entirely uppercase, contrary to some HERETIC'S opinions
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19:56:24 <ehird`> an emacs-like project would get a lot further if it was started right from the top as a platform, albeit one biased to document editing
19:56:32 <ehird`> instead of starting out like a text-editor
19:56:36 <ehird`> it could even produce something decent
19:57:02 <ehird`> i might have a go at that.
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20:06:01 <ehird`> i don't want to base it on lisp though :-)
20:07:20 * oerjan thought ehird` was saying brainfuckmas
20:07:30 <oerjan> that would be some holiday...
20:07:38 <ehird`> wow, er, i don't even WANT to know
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20:11:49 <ehird`> hmm, it seems there are not many languages simple enough to be used on-the-fly for simple tasks (i.e. out of the coding context) and that are powerful enough to use for scripting it and also coding most of it
20:16:58 <oerjan> is this the excel kind of "used on-the-fly for simple tasks" or the perl or haskell kind? (neither of the latter are simple)
20:17:09 <ehird`> the emacs-style, really
20:17:14 <oerjan> for that matter, excel may not be either
20:17:25 <ehird`> in emacs, you use lisp very very often
20:17:36 <ehird`> (M-x kind of masks it, though)
20:19:47 <oklopol> i use python for *everything*
20:20:03 <ehird`> python's statement/expression distinction makes it kind of useless
20:20:24 <ehird`> IF cond THEN <run 2 peices of code> ELSE blah
20:20:28 <ehird`> write that in one line of python.
20:20:30 <oklopol> it makes it suck, but it's the best i know anyway
20:20:32 <ehird`> then write me a nested if.
20:20:48 <ehird`> remember, we can't have multiple lines: this is terminated by a return key, in a special line in the text editor
20:20:55 <ehird`> #python will scold you for using it
20:20:59 <ehird`> and it gets really, really ugly for nesting
20:21:16 <oklopol> and that's *all* that matters
20:21:30 <oklopol> we're talking about quick on-the-fly coding here.
20:21:44 <ehird`> no, it is NOT all that matters
20:21:51 <ehird`> it needs to be simple to write
20:22:06 <oklopol> probably, it's not really a matter of language
20:22:32 <oklopol> if you need to write a file, save, compile, and run, i'm never gonna use it
20:22:59 <oklopol> if there's a quick interface where i can just write code and see the result, of course i'll use it for everything
20:23:08 <oklopol> be it lisp, python, perl, or whaddyahave
20:23:33 <ehird`> anyway, if there was something like python but with an easy syntax for nested if/elses/etc on one line
20:23:36 <ehird`> i would be using it already
20:23:39 <oklopol> i'd prolly use haskell more than python, since i like it better, but ghc won't let me copy / paste
20:24:19 <ehird`> that's what your terminal does.
20:24:35 <oklopol> yeah, as i said, it's not a matter of language
20:24:37 <ehird`> anyway, haskell probably isn't suitable for one-liners to perform basic actions
20:25:13 <oklopol> it's unbelievably suitable for anything that doesn't require the IO monad
20:25:14 <ehird`> normally they will be state-laden
20:25:25 <ehird`> you would do something like:
20:25:32 <ehird`> select text within blah, copy it, delete it
20:26:03 <oklopol> yeah, we need a dirty haskell.
20:26:54 <oklopol> or a python with c-style nesting
20:27:12 <ehird`> maybe python + block ender
20:27:26 <ehird`> except, no nice syntax to do it
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20:34:17 <ehird`> anyone want to plug their favourite language for the idea? :-)
20:35:21 <Sgeo> My favorite language is Python
20:35:40 <ehird`> Sgeo: please read conversations before replying to them...
20:35:45 <ehird`> you have pgup/pgdown keys.
20:36:16 <Sgeo> "python with c-style nesting"?
20:36:21 <Sgeo> What does that mean??
20:36:27 <ehird`> not just 3 lines above
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20:39:27 * oerjan points out that haskell has C-style nesting if you want
20:39:58 <ehird`> i can't imagine how that'd look
20:40:02 <ehird`> how would you express:
20:40:28 <ehird`> (in any way you'd like, probably the most haskelly way:) "if the document starts with 'blah', delete all occurances of 'blah'. otherwise, delete all occurances of 'foo'"
20:40:39 <ehird`> it seems like it'd be pretty ugly :|
20:44:16 <oerjan> main = interact $ \s -> if "blah" `isPrefixOf` s then removeAll "blah" s else removeAll "foo" s
20:44:30 <oerjan> unfortunately removeAll is not builtin
20:45:04 <oerjan> might be something in Text.RegEx
20:45:05 <ehird`> documents likely wouldn't be strings, though
20:45:30 <ehird`> there'd be possibilities for formatting info, graphics (embedded svg? maybe.), etc
20:45:31 <oerjan> interact pipes a file through as a string
20:45:35 <ehird`> (of course, not for code :P)
20:45:48 <ehird`> can also be a stream, too, right?
20:46:24 <oerjan> if by stream you mean a lazy, possibly infinite string
20:46:24 <ehird`> but yeah, i'm not sure i'd want to write the above quickly on one line just to do that to a document
20:46:35 <ehird`> it just doesn't seem to be suited to that
20:47:46 <oerjan> well if you are writing an editor in Haskell you would probably have another datatype and convenience functions for that
20:50:00 <oerjan> although embedded haskell is not really convenient yet
20:50:20 <ehird`> it strikes me as odd that there's not a language really suited to the purpose of this
20:50:30 <ehird`> you'd think similar embedding (although perhaps not as extreme) would be very commonplace
20:51:05 <oerjan> lua is a language dedicated to embedding
20:53:31 <ehird`> but lua is kinda meh :/
21:00:10 <oklopol> oerjan: python was the one accused of lacking that
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22:40:33 * ehird` decides he hates textmate
22:40:36 <ehird`> i might try textwrangler
22:40:59 <ehird`> SimonRC: textmate = mac editor
22:41:06 <GregorR> Try Microsoft Write for Windows 3.11
22:41:14 <ehird`> GregorR: sounds appealing
22:41:14 <GregorR> That's what I do all my programming in.
22:41:25 <ehird`> does it have vi emulation yet?
22:41:35 <ehird`> a version of tetris, maybe?
22:41:55 <SimonRC> GregorR: I hope you are kidding...
22:42:30 <ehird`> SimonRC: Error - sarcasm detector broken
22:42:33 <ehird`> Would you like it fixed?
22:43:28 <ehird`> CONGRATULATIONS! Your amazing new sarcasm detector is installed. We will now test it: I am the elite hacker, and I shall own your computer boxes.(BEEP!BEEP! SARCASM DETECTED!)
22:44:01 <SimonRC> he said it so striaght though...
22:44:04 <oerjan> the sarcasm detector is broken, it doesn't adjust for meta-levels
22:44:16 <ehird`> oerjan: what's your recursive sarcasm parsing depth?
22:44:23 <SimonRC> no, that is a meta-sarcasm detector
22:44:40 <ehird`> new versions have an all-in-one system
22:44:40 <GregorR> Microsoft Write's file format has a small header, then the raw text, then all the formatting, so a small wrapper can allow any compiler to support it, and you can annotate your code!
22:45:07 <ehird`> it's an addon for your parser
22:46:12 <ehird`> that ... completely and utterly does NOT remind me of a certain MS product
22:46:27 <GregorR> (I've been using Windows 3.11 on my laptop to discourage myself from goofing off in class recently :P )
22:46:47 <GregorR> (Clearly it's working, since I can spout details about Microsoft Write's file format :P )
22:47:13 <SimonRC> simpler solution: don't use a laptop
22:47:19 <ehird`> GregorR: i think vista does that just as well
22:47:34 <GregorR> SimonRC: Not a solution: Cannot organize notes or read own handwriting.
22:50:31 <ehird`> nobody commented on my EXTREME VISTA BURN :(
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