00:03:50 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:08:52 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:09:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:27:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:27:34 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:30:02 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
00:30:22 -!- ehird` has joined.
00:30:57 <ehird`> what's the sine port again
00:31:49 <ehird`> * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).
00:32:19 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
00:32:36 -!- ehird` has joined.
00:32:46 <ehird`> Sgeo: i just can't join
00:51:39 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:04:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:04:28 -!- puzzlet has joined.
01:04:48 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
01:12:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:12:13 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
01:47:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:51:00 -!- pikhq has joined.
03:19:45 -!- Slereah- has joined.
03:20:25 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:20:38 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:26:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:29:04 -!- immibis has joined.
03:34:31 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:40:02 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:22:21 * immibis made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around.
04:22:32 <immibis> http://kevan.org/rubicon/game.php?level=rybibir
05:16:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
05:19:00 <oklopol> how long do flies live... this guy is still moving his feet around :O
05:19:27 <oklopol> i guess it's a chick, though.
05:26:04 * immibis repeats that he made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around.
05:36:01 * immibis repeats his repeated statement that he made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around.
05:49:43 * immibis repeats his statement and asks if anyone who views it could tell me so i know how many people are interested nin rubicon
06:04:13 <immibis> rubicon is based on an esoteric language, RUBE, therefore you can write programs with it.
06:10:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:15:18 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:45:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:45:42 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
07:31:41 -!- dbc has joined.
07:34:23 * immibis finds that rubicon keeps crashing firefox
07:34:50 -!- oklopol has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:02:28 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. For Sale: Parachute. Only used once).
08:04:08 -!- AnMaster has joined.
08:25:44 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
08:46:10 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:07:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
09:18:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:33:36 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:46:59 -!- jix has joined.
13:30:17 -!- puzzlet has joined.
13:42:18 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out).
14:33:38 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:35:13 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:35:22 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:05:40 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:17:13 <ais523> you have the first comment in the logs for today, well done
15:17:27 <ais523> (the first action of all is immibis' quit message)
15:17:36 <ais523> (and it even fit on the line for once)
15:18:54 <ais523> I just came across the article "Two envelopes problem" on Wikipedia
15:19:35 <ais523> there are two envelopes, and one contains twice as much money as the other
15:20:19 <ais523> whichever one you take, it makes more sense to take the other one, as you have a 1 in 2 chance of doubling the amount of money you get and a 1 in 2 chance of halving the amount of money you get, so you get more on average
15:21:16 <ais523> there's a version in which you're allowed to look in one of the envelopes first
15:21:27 <ais523> so my reasoning is 'if it contains an odd amount of money, take the other one'
15:21:31 <ais523> but this doesn't work in all cases
15:25:18 -!- sebbu has joined.
15:28:06 <oklopol> ais523: what's the reason? i've seen many paradoxes like these, and can't really see what goes wrong
15:28:49 <ais523> I think the problem is thinking about 'which one you have at the moment' as having a certain value that you currently have
15:29:14 <ais523> the difference in money between the two envelopes is fixed, although you don't know what it is
15:29:37 <ais523> so the amount you might gain is the same as the amount you might lose
15:29:47 <ais523> it's just a different proportion to the current envelope
15:33:12 <oklopol> i actually solved this one, and it's pretty trivial i think, but i'll say it anyway: you have three doors, behind one there's a car, and you get it if you guess right; you choose a door, and one of the other doors is opened, and it's empty; if you choose your original door, you get the car with 33% probability, if you change it, you get it with a 66% probability
15:33:41 <oklopol> this was in a book the gist of which was basically that statistics cannot be trusted
15:33:48 <Tritonio_> that's true and crazy at the same time
15:34:06 <Tritonio_> but it is easy to understand it if you imagine it with 1000 doors
15:34:16 * oerjan drops a Monty Hall on oklopol
15:34:33 <ais523> oklopol: that's pretty easy to explain, the door that's opened depends on which door you chose and so gives you some information about what's behind the doors you did and didn't choose
15:34:34 <Tritonio_> i am still thinking about the envelopes...
15:34:44 <oklopol> ais523: yes, as i said, trivial
15:34:51 <oklopol> and i'm sure most will think so too here
15:35:15 <oerjan> something big and heavy, i assume
15:35:18 <ais523> well, just in case someone is watching and was wondering, or sees it in the logs
15:36:13 <oklopol> hmm... the fly from last night seems to be dead :O
15:37:15 <ais523> did you expend any effort on trying to kill it?
15:38:17 <oklopol> no no, i let it die of natural causes
15:38:36 <oklopol> i only believe in euthanasy when it comes to people, and correct my typing
15:38:37 <ais523> you should have put it into a complicated machine of pipes and valves and so on and let it act like an instruction pointer
15:38:51 <ais523> but I suppose maybe you didn't have one to hand
15:39:15 <oklopol> i agree that would've been the most humane choise
15:40:32 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
15:46:12 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:47:39 -!- oklopol_ has joined.
15:47:50 -!- oklopol_ has changed nick to oklopol.
15:49:44 <ais523> and how easily did you recover?
15:50:47 -!- oklopol has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Don't spam the channel with EgoBot commands, /query EgoBot | Don't spam the channel with toBogE commands, /join #toboge | Don't spam the channel with bsmnt_bot commands, take him to your own channel. | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!.
15:50:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out).
15:51:29 <oklopol> for a while some of the text was white
15:51:52 <oklopol> i didn't really do anything to crash
15:52:18 <oklopol> i was doing some pythoning, but i was typing something on irc when it crashed
15:52:34 <oerjan> you just added http:// ?
15:53:27 <oerjan> sort of took those away to make more room in the topic / make the topic shorter
15:53:52 <oklopol> "Don't spam... Don't spam... Don't spam..."
15:54:15 <ais523> maybe we should make a new channel with the same purpose as #esoteric but where spamming is explicitly allowed
15:54:17 <oklopol> make those into one, and it'll be shorter, take http away, and make life hell for people like me who have a sucky client.
15:54:49 <oklopol> ais523: #esoteric-blah, although it's just me and ehird, and neither is there right now :D
15:55:04 <ais523> oklopol: another good channel to know about
15:55:19 <oklopol> well, it's not that allowed there either, or i'd spam it 24/7
15:56:10 <oklopol> i gotta get back on my thing ->
15:58:24 <oklopol> bsmnt_bot: is what working?
15:59:16 <bsmnt_bot> bsmnt_bot sends messages to where the last ~exec command was
15:59:36 <bsmnt_bot> leading to amusing situations like this one
15:59:46 <oklopol> ais523: since you are now the official ca guy here, i implemented rule 110 on bsmnt_bot once, changed topic accordingly :D
16:00:05 <oklopol> eh.. because of your guyness -> you must be interested to here ...
16:00:09 <ais523> well, it was a Turing machine, not a CA
16:00:40 <oklopol> both are very limited substitution systems
16:00:51 <oklopol> and pretty similarly limited
16:01:02 <ais523> but the parallelism makes quite a difference
16:01:29 <oklopol> true, in case that makes it less interesting, sorry i told ya ;)
16:01:44 <ais523> I'm also interested in CAs as it happens
16:01:56 <oklopol> well, that was pretty much it.
16:02:30 <oklopol> it was a python script, so not that hard
16:02:33 <ais523> maybe we could create a Turing machine simulator on one of the bots
16:03:22 <oklopol> if you want a 2d turing machine..
16:04:03 <oklopol> yeah, should be pretty easy
16:10:10 <ais523> you could effectively simulate a TM by writing the rules in Thue or Thutu
16:12:51 <oklopol> i may now have what i've always wanted: a way to play multiple sine waves at once
16:13:08 <ais523> that's quite easy with most sound cards
16:13:23 <ais523> OTOH, I came across a program once that could play chords out of the computer's internal speaker
16:13:35 <ais523> 'twas a proprietary game, so I have no idea how it managed it
16:14:07 <oklopol> well the speaker is fully deterministic at the moves of the cone
16:14:35 <oklopol> you can cheat by changing the frequency constantly, to get it to move anywhere you want
16:15:01 <ais523> I thought of that, but wouldn't know how to go about working out the pattern
16:18:10 <oklopol> you gotta have the spec of the speaker or something
16:18:37 <oklopol> it's impossible to deduce the actual movements of the sound-nipple otherwise
16:19:45 <oklopol> what's __radd__ in python :\
16:20:40 <oklopol> Slereah-: yes, that's the official term
16:20:56 <ais523> oklopol: what language is __radd__ in?
16:21:20 <ais523> the pattern of underscores would suggest an extended version of C, but I don't know which
16:21:40 <oklopol> Slereah-: remember to pass everything you learn from me through a filter though
16:22:13 <oklopol> it applies when it's the right value of +!
16:22:14 <Slereah-> Well, if it contains the word nipple, should I really filter it?
16:22:38 <oklopol> Slereah-: yes, nipples are nsfep
16:22:50 <oklopol> not suitable for esoteric programming, tha is
16:23:07 <oklopol> i guess cones don't have much to do with esolangs
16:23:16 <Slereah-> Typing with your nipples can be painful indeed.
16:23:24 <oklopol> and i also guess you could make a lang out of nipples.
16:26:03 <oklopol> YEAH SO OKAY, I HAVE THE GREATEST IDEA FOR AN ESOLANG: NIPPLE, TITTIES, BOOBIES, KNOCKERS, BREASTS, HOOTERS, MELONS AND CANS USED AS THE 8 BRAINFUCK COMMANDS
16:26:21 <oklopol> nipple is out of place there
16:31:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("Fnord").
16:38:22 <ais523> making variants on BF that only differ in the names for the commands isn't a very interesting thing to do once you've already seen 10 or 20 of them
16:38:45 <ais523> the Braintwist- and Brainfork-like variants are more interesting
16:38:56 <ais523> if there isn't one already, I propose a variant that does backtracking
16:42:10 <oklopol> brainfork is one of my favorites, even though i've never tried it :)
16:42:19 <ais523> oh, now I realise why your post was in allcaps
16:43:48 <oklopol> soon i'll be composing symphonies in python
16:44:46 <oklopol> hmm... i get an evil click between notes... any of ya have a good algo for anti-aliasing waves? :P
16:45:00 <oklopol> doesn't have to be good, just like, fairly decent
16:47:02 <oklopol> okay, i'll make it really stupid
16:47:12 <oklopol> but not stupid enough that i could explain it in an irc message
16:49:36 <ais523> try waiting for the transition until a point when both the old and new sine wave have the same phase; that's the usual way to get rid of clicks
16:49:52 <oklopol> hmm, it's too generic for that to be possible
16:49:56 <oklopol> i allow for any wave function
16:50:20 <oklopol> i'll just make it fade in every separate set of bytes to output as sound data.
16:51:09 <oklopol> you have to be able to play any set of sounds for any amount of bytes
16:51:24 <oklopol> and then continue with any set of sounds for any amount of bytes without a click
16:55:02 <ais523> maybe you could phase-shift the second sound to match the first? In theory, it ought to sound the same except for the click
16:55:14 <ais523> but that'll need Fourier transforms as far as I know
16:57:12 <oklopol> it should be possible to scroll the waves forward until the cone positions match
16:57:45 <oklopol> the problem is it doesn't suffice if the function is continuous, the human ear will notice a sudden change in derivative
16:59:34 <oklopol> if i can explain this... i'll try
17:01:56 <oklopol> hmm-1 0 1 2 3 4 5 || this is where we last stopped, now getting 8 9 10 to output, so we reverse the end of our last input except the very last, to get, say: 4 3 2 1; now 5 was the last one we actually output, so we iterate the start of what we need to output now, and always average it with
17:02:37 <ais523> "too hard to explain...": that's a good property for esolangs to have, surely?
17:02:54 <oklopol> this is not an esolang yet
17:03:03 <oklopol> although i *am* planning to add one over it.
17:03:28 <oklopol> i haven't seen him for years
17:10:04 <oklopol> god it gets complicated if i make it do phase-shifts...
17:10:22 <oklopol> i'll do it though, since i didn't get this to work right away :P
17:10:33 <ais523> RodgerTheGreat Last Seen: 5 days (23h 21m 47s) ago
17:14:46 <oklopol> the problem is i don't want the player to need to know about waves...
17:14:57 <oklopol> so i need to move the problem one level up
17:15:16 <oklopol> which clutters things a bit unless i do some refactorizationing
17:15:49 * ais523 is getting annoyed at a stupid website they're forced to use
17:16:15 <ais523> it decides it doesn't support the browser I'm using because it's Firefox 2, not Firefox 1 or 1.5
17:16:21 <ais523> so it isn't on the supported list
17:17:13 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:25:13 -!- ais523 has quit ("look, it's a quit message injection atttack:"; Remote closed the connection // comment out the rest").
17:30:09 <oklopol> i now do the phase shift, no effect whatsoever :<
17:35:02 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:36:16 <oklopol> i now do the phase shift, no effect whatsoever :<
17:37:07 <ais523> I'm not sure I can help you there, then, even though I'm supposed to be doing a degree in this sort of thing
17:37:33 <oklopol> okay, tracked one place with audacity
17:37:42 <oklopol> there's like a million little wave bumps
17:37:49 <oklopol> and a slight change in one of them
17:38:35 <oklopol> i know it's not the human ear that does it, since it's an actual click, perhaps my point is there should be antialiasing on a lower lever for idiots like me
17:39:55 <ais523> the click is how you hear any sudden jump in amplitude level
17:40:17 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure it's the speaker that does it.
17:40:44 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure it amplifies it because it can't do a sudden jump like that
17:40:52 <oklopol> that sounds ridiculous, you're prolly right
17:47:46 <oklopol> i found a problem in that technique
17:49:11 <oklopol> basically, if the frequency is only changed a little, it so happens to phase will move just enough for it to be too far away from the last point to continue there, so it is iterated until it comes down, making every splitpoint an arrow pointing upwards
17:54:34 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:54:41 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:04:53 <oklopol> okay, there's almost no clicks no
18:05:04 <oklopol> far better than using winsound.Beep at least
18:18:13 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p525354434.txt the clicks are now only audible when a note is played twice in succession, which *should* make it fully legato it to the last note.
18:18:54 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
18:19:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:20:09 <oklopol> also there's something wrong with my wave adder, because the chords in the end make a clashing sound
18:20:23 <oklopol> and got i suck at onomatopoeia in english
18:23:35 <oklopol> (at least comment on my terrific melody!)
18:27:47 -!- lusum has joined.
18:36:27 <ais523> this machine doesn't have sound, so I can't check it for myself
18:37:01 <ais523> or rather, probably it does, but I'm accessing a mainframe from a terminal and I hate what to think would happen if your music ended up blaring out full volume in the server room
18:39:44 <oklopol> my music is not very suitable for hearing
18:40:10 <oklopol> especially pieces i type without thinking at all in 78 seconds
18:52:09 <ais523> have you ever listened to my 'Hello, World' program in Fugue?
18:52:19 <ais523> it's a bit of an acquired taste
18:53:53 <oklopol> your hello world in fugue?
18:59:03 <ais523> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/fugue/src/hworld.mid
19:00:05 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
19:03:49 <ais523> then go to http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Image:Hworld.png and play it on a piano
19:04:26 <ais523> Fugue source works a lot better in MIDI because that makes it a lot easier for a computer to figure out the intervals
19:32:44 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq.
19:33:49 <ais523> pikhq: you can't do that, now we're down to only three underscored accounts (4 counting bsmnt_bot)
19:34:23 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_.
19:36:35 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
19:39:21 -!- ais523 has quit ("because I have to quit sometime if I want to go home").
19:45:05 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:45:32 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
19:51:36 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:59:49 -!- lusum has left (?).
20:28:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:55:21 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:03:11 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
21:06:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:13:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:16:44 <GregorR> MUAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH
21:20:06 * oerjan wonders what is going on here
21:21:53 <oklopol> well, earlier i mentioned 110, puzzlet just implied in his quit msg, that he read "110" as "Connection reset by peer"
21:22:06 <oklopol> which is a pretty serious failure at readin
21:23:13 <GregorR> Hahaha, how can people be that stupid?
21:23:58 <oklopol> yeah, i'm still lolling too!
21:24:02 <oklopol> but i gotta go to sleep now, really
21:24:12 <oklopol> even though it's not actually late yet
21:25:26 <oerjan> er... thanks to the excellent prior advice of GregorR i am pretty sure those were _not_ user-supplied quit messages?
21:27:06 * oerjan decides you are putting him on
21:27:40 <GregorR> I tried to roll with it :P
21:32:26 <oerjan> MUAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHH
22:02:55 * oerjan doesn't think you got his joke either
22:11:52 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:50:27 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").