00:00:39 <Asztal> is that a different name for BFM?
00:00:48 <pikhq> That is the new name for BFM.
00:00:48 <Asztal> or a different project?
00:00:53 <pikhq> And has been since May of last year.
00:02:46 <Asztal> I don't have free time, I have not-doing-university-work time :)
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04:16:32 <RodgerTheGreat> I made a new comic: http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1200456820-camera.png
04:51:07 <calamari> dunno why, but I thought it'd switched to a washing machine in the lower left pic.. haha
04:53:04 <Slereah> Well, a talking washing machine would make more sense.
04:55:40 <RodgerTheGreat> calamari: I can kinda see that confusion, but I figured the slow zoom-in would make it clear
04:57:35 <calamari> RodgerTheGreat: yeah I wasbn't paying attention .. got it the second time thru
05:41:10 <bsmntbombdood> RodgerTheGreat: i've never seen one of those pictures
05:43:06 <faxathisia> http://img2.travelblog.org/Photos/4598/13665/f/58265-Leaning-tower-of-pisa-1.jpg
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06:56:21 <Slereah> I wonder how many interpreters I could run at the same times.
06:56:40 <Slereah> Like an interpreter of language A ran on the interpreter of language B ran on etc
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07:57:27 <AnMaster> Slereah, well run a brainfuck interpreter coded in brainfuck, that runs inside my brainfuck interpreter coded in bash, that runs inside bash
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08:00:16 <AnMaster> http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/index.py/log/bashfuck/head
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15:48:38 <slereah_> Does this work as a 2,3 machine interpreter? http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/23.py
15:49:11 <slereah_> An infinite band of 0 (white cells), input, starts at the beggining of the input in state A.
15:50:59 <ais523> I was working on optimising the C-from-Underload code
15:51:02 <ehird`> ais523: I rewrote the compiler and such. http://rafb.net/p/sJZzsI57.html
15:51:09 <ais523> I managed to eliminate all but two uses of recursion
15:51:13 <ehird`> Yeah _copy is still completely recursive ofc
15:52:07 <ais523> http://pastebin.ca/857315
15:52:23 <ais523> all call calls in the original code now tail-recurse
15:52:31 <ais523> even the ones which don't appear tail-recursive in the original code
15:52:39 <ais523> so they can't cause stack overflow no matter how bad the original code is
15:52:40 <ehird`> crap, i should have waited before i rewrote it
15:53:12 <ais523> also the only two recursive calls I didn't change into iteration are for wrapped lists in copy and print
15:53:41 <ais523> last has a new definition, for efficiency
15:53:46 <ehird`> well, copy for wrapped lists is the one i care about really
15:54:03 <ehird`> ais523: I made last self-referencing ages ago ;)
15:54:07 <ais523> it means 'garbage unless this happens to be the start of a stack element, when it points to the last element of that stack element'
15:54:18 <ais523> rather than being updated all the way along an element
15:54:28 <ehird`> that is deep magic, i like it :D
15:55:08 <ais523> return 1 means do a call at that point, return 0 means don't
15:56:02 <ais523> trying to make copy work on infintely-nested wrapped lists could be problematic
15:56:24 <ais523> because it's hard to see how to copy lists like (((a)(b))((c)(d))) in an iterative manner
15:57:11 * ais523 is looking at slereah_'s 2,3 interpreter
15:57:46 <ehird`> ais523: would it help if i gave you the source (prelude&scheme compiler) to the new version?
15:57:58 <ehird`> its a lot more readable than the previous one, and it means you don't have to just change one program's output
15:58:14 <ehird`> also ais523 with your half-hand-compiled fibs it generates 29 fibs in 10 seconds
15:58:28 <slereah_> I'm having a hard time programming anything at all on it, since I have absolutely no ideas how to do any particular pattern.
15:58:32 <ais523> ehird`: maybe a good idea if we want to work on this together
15:58:33 <ehird`> even 'cat' takes about 20 seconds to print it out
15:58:47 <ehird`> ais523: hm, have you got any version control systems? :P
15:59:52 <ais523> yes, but I don't normally use them
16:00:03 <ehird`> might be a bit easier if we're both going to be doing stuff with it
16:00:13 <ais523> I have svn installed over here
16:00:15 <ehird`> i personally use darcs or mercurial but you probably just have svn
16:00:17 <ais523> but no server to use it with
16:00:23 <ehird`> i have a server, how convenient
16:00:28 <ehird`> er, i'd have to set up svn though.
16:00:44 <ehird`> should only take a minute... if it doesn't then i'll just upload it somewhere :P
16:02:42 <ais523> slereah_: I put one of the genuine test programs I used when constructing the proof at http://pastebin.ca/857325
16:02:52 <ais523> the A indicates the initial position of the tape head
16:03:32 <ehird`> ais523: such elegance.
16:03:45 <ehird`> the metapatterns fold and weave and the digits intertwix'd.
16:04:52 <ais523> the 2,3 source I pasted corresponds to the system 5 system 1,2 4,5 2,4 "" "" ""
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16:19:02 <Slereah> Let's see how this computer fares now
16:19:19 <ais523> does your program have any way to specify where to start?
16:20:08 <Slereah> Not right now. Though I was thinking of adding two symbols.
16:20:24 <Slereah> ^and v, to add next to the cell you want to start with, in state A or B
16:21:35 <ais523> C, as well, in some of the more advanced systems that the 2,3 Turing machine emulates
16:22:16 <Slereah> I'm starting to regret windows.
16:23:35 <Slereah> I wonder though, is it possible to produce any pattern at some point on the 2,3 machine?
16:24:25 <Slereah> I get the impression that it's impossible to end up on some pattern containing more than one zero.
16:24:43 <ais523> the number of zeros is nonincreasing over more than a few steps
16:24:46 <ais523> I prove that somewhere
16:25:38 <Slereah> Then it probably was a bad choice to use that symbol for my attempt at some sort of meaningful output.
16:27:18 <ais523> The Perl scripts at the end of the proof show some possible ways to filter output
16:27:32 <ais523> outputting on each 'relevant zero' is normally the best way to do it, but I've forgotten the precise definition
16:27:42 <Slereah> I'm only on the 3rd machine of that proof.
16:28:14 <Slereah> It's exam week, so I try to read some more physics-related proof.
16:28:33 <ais523> only show steps on which
16:28:34 <ais523> # a 0 is active and the states on the previous 3 steps haven't been B then A
16:29:05 <ais523> that's the definition of which steps to show copied from the Perl script
16:31:13 <Slereah> Wonder if I could make some hello world with that.
16:31:47 <Slereah> Using the 1 and 2 as binary digits, showing the translated tape every those steps.
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16:56:10 <Hiato> Wassup Slereah (If that was aimed at me :) )
16:56:41 <Hiato> rather late then never ;)
16:58:28 <Hiato> http://www.langpop.com/ : This is crazy, I never realised just how popular C was ( I really don't like it though)
16:58:43 <ais523> C is really useful for things like device drivers
16:58:54 <ais523> and lots of those have to be written every year
16:59:00 <Hiato> because of compiling to bytecode I suspect...
16:59:16 <ais523> and because most OSs are written in it
17:00:22 <ais523> it's also a good language to compile into
17:00:29 <ais523> if you want portable output
17:00:40 <Hiato> apparently so... though there is the fabled D
17:00:40 <ais523> and would otherwise be compiling into assembly
17:00:51 <ais523> or C--, of course, which is even lower-level than C
17:01:07 <Hiato> No, that would be cruelty to humans, lower level C
17:02:39 <Slereah> For some reason, they teach us C here.
17:02:53 <pikhq> C-- is designed to be used as a sort of portable assembly.
17:03:02 <Hiato> hrmm... well I guess it does put you in good stead
17:03:04 <pikhq> It resembles C, but it is much easier to define behavior in it.
17:03:14 <pikhq> And so, it's easier to target.
17:03:15 <Slereah> Even though we're not really looking for all the fantastic advantages of C, since we just do numbers.
17:03:38 <Hiato> pikqh: What's the point though, there i in line assembly in C and there is HLA (High Level Assembly)
17:03:58 <pikhq> Did you miss the bit about being portable?
17:04:07 <Hiato> Slereah: That's what I like about Delphi: It's Pascal (which is goddam easy) and it's RAD
17:04:12 <pikhq> HLA is a macro language for x86 assembly. . .
17:04:26 <pikhq> Inline assembly is both nonportable *and* nonstandard.
17:04:28 <Hiato> pikhq: Yes, but C is portable and HLA compiles into assembly which is portable
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17:04:43 <pikhq> Hiato: Assembly? Portable?
17:04:46 <Hiato> I didn't know that
17:05:04 <Hiato> I really thought it was. Unless you moved from x86 to x86_64
17:05:16 <ais523> what about 6502 assembler?
17:05:23 <ais523> that's nothing like x86 assembler
17:05:25 <pikhq> Assembly is neither cross-OS portable nor cross-CPU portable.
17:05:41 <Hiato> Slereah: I didn't mean RADical :P (Just incase) I meant Rapid Application Development
17:05:46 <pikhq> Let's say I make a small program in x86 assembly, assuming Linux.
17:06:05 <ehird`> who wants to try out the current version of the underload compiler
17:06:14 <pikhq> That same program will not run on x86_64 Linux, or PPC Linux. Nor will it run on Windows of any sort, nor on Mac OS of any sort. . .
17:06:19 <Slereah> Hiato: I don't know what either of those things are, and don't know much of Delphi either
17:06:39 <pikhq> (It'll run on x86 BSDs, but that's because they've got a spiffy kernel feature letting them handle the Linux syscall interface. . .)
17:07:01 <ehird`> svn co svn://elliotthird.org/underload
17:07:06 <ehird`> note that tailcalls are broken right now
17:07:19 <ehird`> in the output you can change #define TAILCALL ... to #define TAILCALL CALL to fix
17:07:52 <Hiato> pikhq: Surely though, TASM, NASM, FASM and co are an attempt to standardise the the Assembley syntax/language and thus make it portable
17:08:17 <pikhq> You are quite ignorant, apparently.
17:08:23 <Hiato> sorry ehird`: haven't got the faintest clue what underload is
17:08:25 <pikhq> The syntax is not what matters. . .
17:08:26 <ehird`> pikhq: hey, give him a break
17:08:33 <pikhq> The raw binary changes from CPU to CPU.
17:08:41 <ehird`> pikhq: calling someone ignorant just because they don't know about syscalls in ASM is stupid
17:08:43 <Hiato> pikhq: quite possible, I live in South Africa
17:08:43 <pikhq> And the syscalls change from OS to OS.
17:08:51 <ehird`> Hiato: think about it this way
17:08:55 <pikhq> Your country has nothing to do with it. . .
17:08:58 <ehird`> Hiato: when an asm program wants to print out some text to the screen
17:09:07 <ehird`> because the cpu Can't Do That
17:09:08 <pikhq> Your lack of experience in assembly is all that's relevant. :p
17:09:21 <ehird`> ...put blah in a register somehow...
17:09:33 <ehird`> and the OS intercepts interupt 38433
17:09:35 <ehird`> and uses that to print
17:09:39 <ehird`> but every OS does it completely differently.
17:09:48 <Hiato> I remember how to do Assembly, FASM that is (I wrote a little tiny OS type thingy a while ago)
17:09:54 <pikhq> And every CPU has different commands for putting blah in a register, and doing interrupts.
17:12:31 <Hiato> PS: pikhq: In SA, we only do computer studies in Grade 10/11/12 and we do basic stuff like PC structure, data storage databases etc.. nevermind the fact that I have only had Internet for about ~1 year now and that there are virtually no computer resources in SA.... That was why I made my statement
17:12:50 <pikhq> In x86, it's just "mov $string_address,%ecx;mov $string_size,%edx;mov $1,%ebx;mov write,%eax;int 0x80". . . Assuming string_address points to "Foo" and string_size is the size of that string. . .
17:13:29 <pikhq> In x86_64, it's something more like "push $string_address;push $string_size;push 1;push write;syscall".
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17:13:54 <Hiato> alright, I get it...
17:14:21 <Hiato> South Park? :P (The psychologist)
17:15:04 <pikhq> Isn't that a teacher? (Mmkay.)
17:15:51 <Slereah> With his many great lessons on drugs.
17:16:09 <Hiato> Beats me, I only saw the one episode...
17:18:20 <ehird`> Hiato: Impressive that you made Full 0 in your second year with internet :P
17:18:27 <ehird`> Or did you use computers significantly before that?
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18:02:11 <Hiato> and so is the power
18:02:43 <Slereah> http://img.lulz.net/src/1178122406441.jpg
18:03:27 <Hiato> what I meant was that Eskom (the power dudes in SA) feel the need to arbitrarily cut off certain area's power for unspecified amounts of tin
18:03:39 <Hiato> without warning or schedule
18:03:49 <Hiato> and they call it Load Shedding....
18:04:12 <Slereah> I'll give you three thousand tons of tin.
18:04:18 <Slereah> If you give me back my power.
18:04:31 <Hiato> Hrmm... you drive a hard bargain
18:04:38 <Hiato> three and a half thousand :P
18:04:53 <Slereah> Damn you, what am I, made of tin?
18:05:00 <Slereah> Do I look like the Tinman to you?
18:05:08 <Hiato> Well, for short... yes
18:05:15 <Hiato> especially through IRC
18:05:24 <Hiato> though it has that effect on everyone
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18:15:52 <ehird`> oerjan: the life of a compiler writer is not easy
18:15:53 <ehird`> 18:14:53 <ais523> I've been tracing it two implementations simultaneously
18:15:53 <ehird`> 18:15:01 <ais523> they deviate somewhere inside either block 16 or block 1
18:15:53 <ehird`> 18:15:04 <ais523> quite early on
18:15:53 <ehird`> 18:15:04 <ehird`> hardcore
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18:18:58 <Slereah> Why can't Kolmogorov be called Bob?
18:19:19 <Slereah> Or Popov, to make it Russianer.
18:20:22 <oerjan> technically he _could_ be called Andrey
18:20:51 <Slereah> Yes, but youwon't find an Andrey machine!
18:21:07 <Slereah> I'll make a goddamn Andrey machine!
18:21:10 * oerjan wonders what the russian diminutive is for that
18:23:01 <oerjan> there apparently is Scott Andrey Machine
18:25:16 <Slereah> Heh. Esolang is the first google result for Kolmogorov Machine
18:26:05 <Slereah> Are the graph in computing the same as in math?
18:26:26 <oerjan> apparently not a very common term then...
18:26:26 <Slereah> The {<x;y> | for some property }
18:27:15 <oerjan> the word graph has several meanings
18:27:56 <oerjan> the graph of a function, or a graph of vertices and edges, spring to mind
18:28:29 <oerjan> and i believe both are used in both computing and math
18:28:40 <Slereah> I suppose the graph of a function qualify as that definition.
18:28:50 <Slereah> Since a function is just a particular type of graph.
18:29:15 <Slereah> Not sure what the vertices one is though
18:29:48 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_(mathematics)
18:30:08 <Slereah> Why do I get gay porn with "Brainfuck" on google image?
18:31:00 <Hiato> why where you searching Brainfuck on Google Images anyways :D?
18:31:27 <oerjan> Slereah: your definition seems to be the graph of a relation
18:31:40 <Slereah> Well, I typed Kologo...Kogloglo...Glokok... Andrey Machine in google.
18:31:48 <Slereah> And then, I clicked on google image, for lulz
18:32:16 <Slereah> Well, that definition comes from the Bourbaki
18:32:23 <Slereah> So it might not be very up to date
18:32:36 <Slereah> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Graphe.jpg
18:32:55 <oerjan> well wikipedia mentions it
18:33:32 <oerjan> but then in set theory a relation is often identified with its graph
18:33:57 <Slereah> Hell, I don't even understand the difference!
18:35:50 <oerjan> in predicate logic a relation is usually not a set, but a more basic logical concept
18:36:05 <oerjan> which is the sense used in that jpg
18:36:30 <oerjan> relation = proposition in that
18:37:16 <oerjan> you could say a proposition is a relation with no arguments i guess
18:38:56 <oerjan> hm... fits with automatic currying like in haskell :D
18:39:16 <Slereah> I think there was some relation definition without sets in the Principia Mathematica, but I never focused beyond chapter 40.
18:40:03 <Slereah> "A graph or undirected graph G is an ordered pair"
18:41:42 <Slereah> Hell. This is distracting.
18:49:59 <ehird`> The underload->C compiler works.
18:50:07 <ehird`> It does tail-call optimization and all that jazz.
18:50:13 <ehird`> svn co svn://elliotthird.org/underload
18:50:15 <ehird`> if you want to take a look
18:50:30 <ehird`> Get a Scheme implementation, and pipe underload.scm to a file, then compile that with gcc.
18:50:40 <ehird`> It should print an awful lot of colons.
19:01:16 <Hiato> can someone quickly explain Trinary (or ternary) to me, I don't understand how you convert...
19:01:29 <ais523> if a number has digits edcba
19:01:38 <ais523> then its value is a+b*3+c*9+d*27+e*81
19:02:00 <Hiato> I got confused there
19:04:19 <ehird`> ((digit*2)+digit)*2...
19:04:42 <ehird`> 1101 -> ((((((1*2)+1)*2)+0)*2)+1
19:04:48 <ehird`> with trinary it's the same but with 0,1,2
19:04:52 <ehird`> same with decimal: but with 0-9
19:05:20 <Hiato> yeah, I got it from ais523's explanation, but thanks anyway :).
19:06:19 <Asztal> as the INTERCAL manual explains, ternary offers some nice options for signed numbers (e.g. balanced ternary)
19:06:29 <Asztal> where 2 actually means -1
19:07:20 <ais523> http://intercal.freeshell.org
19:07:33 <ais523> the old one's all over the Internet
19:07:59 <Asztal> "The tape still has characters written on it in binary, even though the program uses a different base"
19:08:15 <Asztal> Haha, must be fun doing binary operations in TriINTERCAL.
19:08:27 <ais523> the ternary description's in the original manual
19:09:14 <Hiato> "`bBASEChange base" there's the solution :P
19:42:02 <Hiato> oh well, I'm tired today (1st day of school again..)
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19:49:03 <ehird`> after the compiler obediently spewed out a 73184 line C file, I am now attempting to compile it with -O3
19:49:08 <ehird`> I think it might take a few years.
19:49:42 <Slereah> Well, don't bother. The world's ending in 5 years, according to the most reliable crackpots.
19:52:10 <oerjan> but don't worry, it'll just be a verne singularity.
19:52:52 <oerjan> also in the process computing power will grow asymptotically so compilation should certainly finish
19:53:04 <oerjan> assuming you upgrade regularly
19:53:29 <ehird`> why isn't gcc multi core!!!
19:53:33 <ais523> the resulting program took me 21m56.905s to run with -O0
19:53:50 <ais523> and it's only a 99bob...
19:54:00 <ehird`> it is compiled badly from brainfuck, though..
19:54:08 <ehird`> and you had debug checks on...
19:54:24 <ais523> I doubt the debug checks would have made that much of a difference
19:54:29 <ais523> compared to the hugely inefficient -
19:54:31 * pikhq makes Thy Dungeonman-Brainfuck Edition
19:54:48 <pikhq> http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/Thy_Dungeonman
19:55:08 <ais523> I wonder what would happen if I translated Lost Kingdoms?
19:55:15 <pikhq> Last summer, I wrote an engine for text-based games in Brainfuck. . .
19:55:23 <pikhq> You could probably get Lost Kingdom to run in it.
19:55:36 <pikhq> Well, the engine is in PEBBLE, but. . .
19:55:36 <ais523> with some input extension, presumably
19:56:13 <ehird`> yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh, i just had to kill gcc.
19:56:23 <ehird`> you won't believe what i saw just before...
19:56:30 <ehird`> gcc did a garbage collection.
19:56:33 <ehird`> a GARBAGE COLLECTION!!
19:57:09 <ehird`> darwin is having a hard time recoveirng...
19:57:21 <pikhq> Well, yeah. GCC has a builtin garbage collector for internal purposes.
19:57:24 <ehird`> ais523: I think, perhaps -O2 will be enough
19:57:26 <Slereah> Well, with all that creationism.
19:57:38 <ehird`> pikhq: Did I mention it did it because it had >over 200MB allocated<?
19:58:11 <pikhq> Granted, that's usually on big-ass C++ compiles.
19:58:15 <ehird`> ais523: apparently, -O3 infinite loops under... stressful conditions.
19:58:53 <pikhq> Although doing, say, Lost Kingdom->C->binary with -O2 or -O3 makes GCC hate you.
19:59:04 <ais523> it's not particularly stressful, though, just extensive
19:59:05 <pikhq> It usually gets to about 1.5GB before segfaulting if I do that. . .
19:59:28 <pikhq> s/segfault/malloc returns null/
19:59:39 <ehird`> 99bob is now reniced to -20
19:59:44 <ehird`> so it should ... not be terribly slow
19:59:50 <ehird`> oh look, "99 bottles of beer on the wall, "
20:00:08 <ehird`> not worth it, I think..
20:00:30 <ais523> maybe we need an /optimising/ BF to Underload compiler...
20:00:31 <ehird`> ais523: I think perhaps we should concentrate on other programs
20:00:46 <ehird`> we need a big program, though..
20:00:52 <ehird`> So we can, e.g. optimize it.
20:00:55 <ehird`> ANd get rid of memleaks.
20:01:10 <ehird`> ais523: I know! A prime checker.
20:01:22 <ehird`> Preferably, an infinite one: checks 1, then 2, then 3, ...
20:01:31 <ais523> hmm... division would be quite difficult to write in Underload
20:02:29 <ais523> maybe doing it finitely with an Erosthanes sieve would be easier
20:03:11 <ais523> anyway, it's getting late, and I'd better go home
20:03:24 <ehird`> aw crap, now i have to test it on my own without valgrind :P
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20:04:37 <ehird`> Convert http://www.bf-hacks.org/hacks/uload.b to Underload.
20:04:42 <ehird`> Use as underload interpreter.
20:07:40 <Slereah> How many memory location does an OISC interpreter need?
20:10:04 <ehird`> kinda-esoteric challenge!
20:10:05 <ehird`> http://pastebin.ca/raw/857629
20:10:21 <ehird`> decode that and you'll get a program which can encode and decode the same "encryption" that is put on it!
20:11:15 <ehird`> Errr, don't do it, I broke the decoder
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20:13:03 <Slereah> Is it... AN UNBOUNDED AMOUNT? :o
20:13:22 <Slereah> If it is, that's going to be hard to implement on the Love Machine.
20:13:48 <ehird`> http://pastebin.ca/raw/857632
20:13:50 <oerjan> anything TC requires unbounded memory, you hear
20:14:09 <oerjan> but not necessarily by number of cells, it could be cell contents
20:14:28 <Slereah> Using two tapes, and just adding 1's on them
20:14:41 <Slereah> But I wondered if two was enough for OISC
20:15:42 <Slereah> It seems dubious to me, because if two was enough, it wouldn't need three arguments
20:15:51 <oerjan> doubtful, but it may be enough to have only two ever be unbounded
20:16:18 <oerjan> as for emulating a minsky machine
20:16:45 <Slereah> You could just do one instruction of zero arguments, "substract memory from other memory, and branch if"
20:17:53 <Slereah> But I can't find the minimal amount of memory if any on the esowiki or the regular wiki.
20:18:42 <ehird`> hey! who has a really short domain name?
20:19:16 <Asztal> I think I still have cb0.org
20:19:26 <Asztal> never really got round to using it.
20:20:32 <ehird`> hmm, who has a domain name that they are using for other things and also have ways to point urls to different ips
20:20:48 <ehird`> i want to put my short-URL-maker that makes them shorter than any other site i've seen up somewhere :P
20:21:02 <Asztal> oh, mine expired 27 days ago
20:22:53 <Asztal> if you don't mind custom DNS, I could probably get _.x
20:23:36 <ehird`> Asztal: if you want to keep cb0.org i'd reccomend reregistering it Right Now: domain squatters will grab three-letter domains almost immediately
20:25:30 <GregorR> codu.org is pretty short :P
20:25:40 <Asztal> .coms are all gone, but there should still be a few .nets and a few thousand .orgs
20:26:09 <oklokok> vjn.fi is also quite short.
20:26:11 <ehird`> Asztal: few thousand: you are quite the comedian
20:26:18 <Asztal> http://3la.org/toc.html
20:26:22 <pikhq> Grab it now if you want to keep it. ;)
20:26:26 <Asztal> not sure how up-to-date that is
20:26:28 <oklokok> i actually almost made a tinyurl there
20:26:36 <ehird`> oklokok: my tinyurl is great
20:26:47 * pikhq should grab ワスタ・ジョウサイア.com if it's still open. :p
20:26:47 <ehird`> iirc for the first few ten thousand urls you get 3 characters.
20:27:01 <Asztal> I probably shouldn't whois these with networksolutions, should I?
20:27:03 <ehird`> oklokok: i'll tell you if you host it :P
20:27:09 <GregorR> You could buy x.com off Yahoo for some few thousand million dollars :P
20:27:23 <GregorR> Just make sure not to let it expire!
20:27:25 <pikhq> Asztal: Don't whois. Register it; if it fails to register, the name's taken. ;)
20:28:01 <GregorR> Oh, I guess it's "paypal labs" now ... PayPal must have got it from Yahoo and/or been bought by Yahoo.
20:28:05 <Asztal> my web host give me one free registration per year, so I may as well get this one back.
20:28:14 <oklokok> the only "non trivial" part is i have no idea how to get virtual directories, like vjn.fi/879yf
20:28:20 <oklokok> all i can think of is get.
20:28:30 <oklokok> ehird`: just tell it, i'm not going to steal it.
20:28:31 <pikhq> xn--cckdf4dnf6b9wkcug.com is not taken.
20:29:28 <GregorR> What's that de-punycode-ized?
20:29:45 <oklokok> ehird`: i haven't registered, wait a sec
20:29:49 <oklokok> ehird`: i haven't registered, wait a sec
20:29:52 <pikhq> It's my name in Japanese.
20:30:06 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol.
20:30:17 <faxathisia> how come going to xn--cckdf4dnf6b9wkcug.com resolves to
20:30:22 <GregorR> My name is registered by some jerk named Greg Orr :P
20:30:31 <GregorR> faxathisia: Because that's what it is.
20:30:31 <pikhq> faxathisia: That's punycode.
20:30:56 <pikhq> Punycode is a method of encoding Unicode in 7-bit ASCII, and is used for IDN.
20:31:04 <Asztal> I can't wait for internationalised TLDs. Then I can be even more confused at domain names.
20:36:22 <pikhq> I'd recommend doing it on .org, though.
20:37:15 <pikhq> Actually, you don't need punycode for that.
20:37:49 <GregorR> I'm pretty sure domain names don't allow "[" or "]" :P
20:37:56 <GregorR> And punycode's base offset is above ASCII
20:38:03 <GregorR> So in fact you couldn't reg that.
20:38:08 <Asztal> imagine actually being able to register http://"egnufeb">:#,_@.info/
20:38:30 <Asztal> the .info converters says so too... "The converted string ,[.,] contains characters not supported in this registry"
20:38:51 <pikhq> There can't be a *technical* reason for that.
20:38:55 <GregorR> <GregorR> And punycode's base offset is above ASCII
20:39:21 <GregorR> You can't encode those into punycode and domain names have never allowed "," and "]"
20:39:31 <GregorR> Also, that would have to be the subdomain ",[" under the domain ",]"
20:40:42 <GregorR> Oh yeah, and two-letter domain names are no longer sold.
20:40:43 <ehird`> there are unicode chars looking very much like [
20:40:56 <ehird`> so: find them, translate to punycode
20:41:00 <Asztal> they may be in your browser's IDN blacklist
20:41:04 <ehird`> add subdomain ,[-alike
20:41:10 <Asztal> in which case, the browser would display the punycode
20:41:57 <ehird`> Asztal: Oh well. Find the chars for me! :P
20:42:17 <Asztal> heh, stuff like ㎮ is in the blacklist
20:42:50 <Asztal> I doubt I'd be able to read that at my address bar font size..
20:44:22 <ehird`> i can't read these in linkinus
20:44:28 <ehird`> link me to the page it has for them
20:44:41 <ehird`> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/ff3b/index.htm
20:44:44 <ehird`> we thought the same thing
20:47:04 <ehird`> safari collapses it :(
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20:49:02 <ehird`> http://xn--nwg1758f.xn--owg.org/
20:49:18 <ehird`> http://xn--fvga6742o.xn--ii7c.org/
20:49:38 <Asztal> my IRC client is refusing to open these (having to copy and paste) :)
20:50:54 <ehird`> dibs on http://xn--fvg8298f9da.xn--ii7c.org/
20:51:27 <ehird`> xn--1xa.com is registered
20:52:45 <GregorR> FF3B and FF3D are nice brackets
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20:56:45 <GregorR> xn--ufb0078j.com is my best ,]
20:57:50 -!- ehird`_ has joined.
20:57:55 <GregorR> Firefox disagrees on the translation of that >_O
20:58:25 <ehird`_> what is the punycode of http://.com/
20:58:38 <GregorR> It's http://www.googleityourself.com/
21:01:22 -!- ehird` has quit (Nick collision from services.).
21:01:24 -!- ehird`_ has changed nick to ehird`.
21:01:28 <Asztal> firefox seems to convert it to F8FF when I navigate to it :(
21:01:42 <Asztal> or indeed paste it at all
21:02:17 <ehird`> what does it display as in your fonts
21:02:24 <GregorR> I get xn--lzg, and it's owned.
21:03:19 <ehird`> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/f8ff/index.htm the image is funky
21:03:25 <Asztal> yes, it's F8FF. It's a private use character (looks vaguely hebrew-ish in this font)
21:03:32 <ehird`> so what's that in punycode?
21:03:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
21:04:10 <GregorR> ehird`: Like I said, Firefox told me it's xn--lzg, and that's owned.
21:04:34 <GregorR> Then what did you type? Looks like the Euro sign to me :P
21:05:35 <Asztal> http://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08033/f8ff931.png
21:06:11 <GregorR> XChat is pretty well convinced that's a Euro symbol for me 8-O
21:08:22 <GregorR> You mean of course that our /clients/ are wrong.
21:09:14 <Asztal> a domain which looks different depending on what font you happen to like... that's pretty cool :D
21:10:06 -!- Corun has joined.
21:10:38 <ehird`> http://img.skitch.com/20080116-m85215j9jx89pbk5wwb8rwj8y6.jpg
21:10:47 <pikhq> It looks like a block to me.
21:10:48 * ehird` better reconfigure that
21:11:09 <pikhq> Which, of course, is right if you don't have the correct font.
21:11:11 <Asztal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EF%A3%BF
21:11:38 <Asztal> "KLINGON MUMMIFICATION GLYPH", nice.
21:12:34 <GregorR> I'm actually a bit surprised that ithink∴iam.com is unowned.
21:15:16 * Asztal ponders reverse DNS opportunities
21:16:46 <Slereah> The ConScript Unicode Registry suggests it be used for the Klingon glyph "KLINGON MUMMIFICATION GLYPH."
21:18:17 <Asztal> ah yes, that's the one on fileformat.info, it seems
21:18:38 <ehird`> Asztal: fileformat.info uses Code2000
21:18:57 <ehird`> which has every single character (no, really) and also complies with the ConScript thing
21:20:18 <GregorR> It translates the early modern English short s symbol to an 's' :(
21:25:27 <Asztal> so many awesome domain names like ☃.com and ☭.com are parked :(
21:26:48 -!- Corun_ has joined.
21:29:04 <ehird`> what's good about those characters.
21:33:31 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:47:07 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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21:48:13 <ehird`> ais523 has been congratulated for an awfully long time :P
21:51:29 <oklopol> i guess someone will have to top that
21:51:56 <ehird`> i proved god doesn't exist
21:51:59 <ehird`> but that's not really as important.
21:53:09 <oklopol> so did Sgeo! let's put you both up!
21:54:08 -!- Corun has joined.
21:54:20 <ehird`> when did sgeo prove that? :P
21:54:31 <Asztal> was there a puff of logic?
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21:56:20 <faxathisia> did he prove black is white for an encore, and get run over at the next zebra crossing? :P
21:57:30 <ehird`> personally i think there'd be a bit of a fuss before he got run over
21:57:39 <ehird`> everything being both 100% dark and 100% light, and all that jazz.
21:59:51 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:03:18 <oklopol> i think Sgeo (if it was him) did something with the fact that "god can do anything"
22:04:14 <GregorR> I'd lurve to see this amazo argument.
22:04:26 <ehird`> oklopol: that's retarded.
22:04:41 <ehird`> nobody apart from the most fundamental, braindead idiots define god as "can do anything"
22:04:50 <ehird`> iirc, the most common is "god can do anything which god could logically do"
22:04:58 <ehird`> which /doesn't/ imply god is impossible
22:05:00 <oklopol> ehird`: well, a "god can't exist" argument is always retarded, if it's meant literally
22:05:11 <GregorR> "which god could logically do" ...
22:05:24 <GregorR> Good thing that's so well-defined.
22:05:31 <ehird`> GregorR: it is, you're reading it wrong
22:05:40 <ehird`> "god can do anything that is logically possible"
22:05:44 <ehird`> i.e. results in no contradiction
22:05:50 <ehird`> that gets rid of: rock so heavy god can't lift it
22:06:01 <GregorR> But I feel is a subpar definition of a god.
22:06:04 <ehird`> you can specially formulate something that by its nature everyone but god can do
22:06:07 <ehird`> so you come to that definition
22:06:11 <ehird`> GregorR: this is ancient stuff
22:06:16 <GregorR> Anything which could truly be called a god is exempt from our rules of logic and reason.
22:06:25 <ehird`> GregorR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence
22:06:28 <ehird`> and that's a bullshit argument
22:06:53 <ehird`> god either exists, or he doesn't, and you can scientifically calculate approximations of the probability of this.
22:06:59 <ehird`> (by the way, they're extremely low.)
22:06:59 <pikhq> "God can do anything that he does not limit himself from doing."
22:08:51 <ehird`> i find it very revealing that everyone who believes or 'believes in belief' (to steal Dawkins' term, who stole it from someone else, etc.) states that logic and reason against god is a defiance of faith and cannot be explained etc etc
22:09:16 <ehird`> exactly because when you do, you find out that a god is incredibly unlikely.
22:09:36 -!- oklopol has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:09:55 <ehird`> but anyway this is all wrong, because the flying spaghetti monster is real
22:09:58 <ehird`> please ignore everything i said
22:12:29 <GregorR> "<ehird`> i find it very revealing that everyone who believes or 'believes in belief' (to steal Dawkins' term, who stole it from someone else, etc.) states that logic and reason against god is a defiance of faith and cannot be explained etc etc" // I'm not confident that this is a sentence
22:14:39 <GregorR> I'm quite confident that that wasn't a sentence :P
22:17:01 <ehird`> i find it very revealing that everyone who believes or 'believes in belief' (to steal Dawkins' term, who stole it from someone else, etc.) states that using logic and reason against god is a defiance of faith and cannot be explained etc etc
22:18:55 -!- oklopol has joined.
22:19:52 <oklopol> thanks for the boot, ubuntu <3 ehird`: can i see calculations on the probability?
22:21:22 <ehird`> [continue in /msg, this is getting offtopic here :)]
22:21:27 <ehird`> heh, #esoteric, offtopic.
22:21:35 <GregorR> Sounds pretty esoteric to me :P
22:23:04 -!- oklopol has set topic: soteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize! | Nothing's off-topic in #esoteric! :DDDD.
22:23:24 <ehird`> Unless we redefine the topic.
22:23:34 * ehird` Albatross fanatics unite!
22:23:38 -!- ehird` has set topic: Albatross fanatics unite!.
22:23:44 <oklopol> i love how i cut the first character :D
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22:46:50 <GregorR> ehird`: So you don't love it. It still loves you!
22:46:58 <ehird`> GregorR: start making sense
22:50:27 <GregorR> <oklopol> thanks for the boot, ubuntu <3 ehird`: can i see calculations on the probability?
22:51:04 <GregorR> There should be a newline in there somewhere :P
22:53:43 -!- ehird` has changed nick to rice.
22:53:49 -!- rice has changed nick to ehird`.
22:53:57 <ehird`> *** rice is now known as ehird`.
22:56:05 <GregorR> So, yesterday I was eating some curry over ehird`.
22:56:11 <oklopol> GregorR: sometimes i want to say two things at once to make the first one impossible to comment on
22:56:32 <oklopol> it sometimes looks wronglied.
22:56:34 -!- ehird` has changed nick to rice.
22:56:36 <GregorR> oklopol: That's a totally retarded idea CATS ARE FLUFFY
22:57:24 <rice> awesome, this nick is MINE!
22:57:27 <rice> I got it dropped :D
22:57:33 <oklopol> (i actually wrote 'puppy' instead of 'book', although i have to admit i realized it a bit before i pressed return, but had to say it anyway)
22:57:43 <rice> GregorR: it was last used over a year ago
22:57:48 <rice> so i went into #freenode and asked
22:57:51 <rice> and a staffer said OK and did it
22:57:53 <oklopol> oh, i think i've seen you with that
22:57:55 -!- GregorR has changed nick to potatoes.
22:58:34 <rice> i know have a short dictionary word registered as a nick on a large IRC network
22:59:49 <Asztal> I just deleted the objdir halfway through building something, thinking it had finished but not built what I wanted
23:00:02 <rice> faxathisia: which word?
23:04:32 <rice> http://www.ddj.com/web-development/184416221 this person seems very bitter about ruby
23:06:13 -!- potatoes has changed nick to GregorR.
23:06:27 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I used to think I was indecisive, b).
23:06:55 <rice> you know what would be awesome
23:07:04 <rice> if there was an irc bot controlling a music player daemon
23:07:13 <rice> http://www.musicpd.org/
23:08:00 <faxathisia> used to be able to queue up songs in #test radio anyway
23:08:34 <faxathisia> oh.. Music Player Daemon is something else..
23:15:05 <RodgerTheGreat> can somebody point me to an online BF string generator?
23:15:59 <EgoBot> 60 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>+++++++><<<<-]>.>-..>.-.<+++. [83]
23:20:20 <rice> !bf_txtgen Hello, world!
23:21:04 <EgoBot> 118 +++++++++++[>++++++>++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++++++.>>++.+++++++..+++.<.>>-.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [839]
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23:25:23 <rice> #devnonsense :D
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