00:00:05 * olsner is in an extraordinarily helpful mood today
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00:10:03 <revcompgeek> would it be worthwile to make up an esoteric assembly language that esoteric compilers could target?
00:11:11 <revcompgeek> i don't see how to write any compilers in that in a reasonable amount of time
00:12:23 <sauxdado> well, what exactly do you want?
00:15:35 <sauxdado> i just don't understand "semi-normal"
00:16:12 <sauxdado> if you want easy-to-compile-to, why bother with assembly at all? Lisp could be a nice target there. Or C if you're into lower level. Or LLVM if you really do want something assembly-like.
00:16:25 <sauxdado> And if you want esoteric, there's plenty of options, but none of them are "semi-normal", by definition.
00:17:50 <revcompgeek> i had an idea to have all esoteric compilers target one specific assembly
00:18:45 <sauxdado> LLVM seems like a good choice, although most people prefer to compile to something higher-level
00:19:56 <revcompgeek> i was almost thinking something based on P-code
00:21:13 <revcompgeek> I haven't actually written a compiler but i want to for BRZRK
00:24:58 <sauxdado> why do you want assembly, anyway?
00:25:34 <revcompgeek> compiling to LISP would actually be fairly easy for BRZRK, but i don't know LISP
00:27:07 <sauxdado> the BRZRK page says it's "based on lisp"
00:27:14 <sauxdado> you don't know lisp yet you based a language on it?
00:27:24 <ehird> sauxdado: Happens.
00:27:26 <revcompgeek> i have looked at it and i understand the structure
00:27:54 <revcompgeek> variables are quite complicated from what i have looked at
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01:52:23 <evincar> I started an interpreter for Selector yesterday.
01:52:55 <evincar> The only things I have left to add are... BECOME, ESCAPE, GO, MY, PICK, and YOUR.
01:53:25 <evincar> But it's not hard, per se.
01:53:42 <evincar> Hence I'm taking a break to chat.
01:57:06 <ehird> evincar: Same for me.
01:57:08 <ehird> I will do it eventually
01:57:30 <evincar> I'm working on another spec, with a friend this time.
01:57:53 <evincar> You might call it 'pseudo-deterministic', I think.
01:58:16 <evincar> It's based on old-style text-based RPGs.
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02:54:24 <oklopol> there are seven bits of a delicious matrix
02:54:42 <oklopol> and the result makes a payhouse for a grinfizzle
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11:48:16 <theunixgeek> hi, is this channel for esoteric programming languages?
11:49:29 <Iskr> no it is for esoteric magic
11:51:15 <Slereah_> Yes, yes it is for programming.
11:51:33 <theunixgeek> anyone know of the FALSE programming language?
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12:22:38 <olsner> what, is this a *programming* channel?
12:22:48 * olsner goes look for the esoteric magic channel
12:26:32 <Slereah_> olsner : http://www.greyschool.com/
12:26:51 <Slereah_> "* Technomagick 100: Internet Safety "
12:26:57 <Slereah_> "Class Description: As the world of computers and the Internet grows, more and more threats find ways to disrupt our lives. Here at Grey School, we want to help you learn to defend yourself from these threats. Technomagick 100 will teach you a little about the structure of computers, the history of the Internet, and where the dangers are (and how to avoid them!)"
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15:46:57 <ehird> so, i'm golfing a mini-irc alike
15:47:14 <ehird> it runs over telnet, and you can 'join x', 'part x', 'say x y', 'whois x', 'names x', and 'quit'
15:47:38 <ehird> it's currently around 10 lines but doesnt work fully yet.
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16:36:07 <pikhq> It's snowing in fucking *May*.
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16:45:35 <ehird> i just did something i never thought possibly - and pikhq and ais523 will hate me for this -
16:45:42 <ehird> but i actually got a vim up that's nicer than emacs
16:46:06 * ehird awaits pikhq's "That's impossible!"
16:47:16 <pikhq> That's not impossible, just very, very improbable.
16:47:23 <ehird> pikhq: But I did it.
16:47:41 <pikhq> Oh well; fortunately for you, using Vim is not a sin in the Church of Emacs.
16:47:47 <ehird> My hands are no longer in an eternal game of twister!
16:47:56 <ehird> pikhq: Hey, I can use both. :D
16:48:18 <ehird> But I use proprietary software (in fact, one of my favourite editors is proprietary) so I'm a sinner anyway
16:48:36 <pikhq> I have two proprietary programs on hear. . .
16:48:44 <pikhq> Nvidia driver and Flash plugin.
16:49:02 <ehird> and my main OS is proprietary ;-)
16:49:18 <ehird> I love open source software. I just love proprietary software too.
16:49:34 <pikhq> I'm drinking coffee as we speak.
16:49:53 <ehird> pikhq: proprietary coffee?
16:51:56 <pikhq> Free coffee, of course.
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16:53:24 <ehird> pikhq: As in ... er... beer?
16:53:42 <ehird> pikhq: Your coffee TALKS?!
16:53:45 * pikhq could also make you some beer that's free as in speech. :p
16:53:53 <pikhq> Hey, it's the LSD I put in it. :p
16:54:04 <ehird> LSD + Coffee ... well, it's unique I guess
16:54:45 <pikhq> Helps me deal with the snow.
16:56:14 <ehird> pikhq: So between LSD coffee to deal with snow and rituals about a text editor ...
16:56:53 <pikhq> It's part of the Fundamentalist Church of Emacs. :p
16:57:10 <pikhq> We also have a dress code: T-shirt, pants, long hair, and a beard of some sort. ;p
16:57:10 <ehird> pikhq: It's kinda like anti-Christianity: pi may not be used anywhere if not given in full.
16:57:46 <ehird> pikhq: This is why GNU Emacs has no circles, anywhere.
16:57:49 <pikhq> Although you *are* allowed to give an infinite series that equals pi.
16:58:16 <ehird> Well, it does have circles -- but you never notice, because it freezes trying to calculate all of pi. So every time Emacs crashes, it was just trying to display a circle.
16:59:26 <pikhq> That only applies to FCE copies.
16:59:58 <pikhq> Other, more uncouth copies of Emacs are satisfied with enough digits of pi to compute the size of the known universe to within a few planck lengths.
17:00:14 <ehird> That is horrifying.
17:02:50 <ehird> pikhq: I suggest 'HORRIFIC BABY-KILLING MACHINES OF DEATH circles'
17:03:56 * pikhq proposes that Emacs only draw circles using polar coordinates
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17:12:08 <ehird> if you've been logreading you will soon banish me
17:12:18 <ais523> hi, and I haven't been logreading
17:12:28 <ais523> I've been standing at a display all day explaining a massive project to people
17:12:36 <ehird> ais523: what, C-INTERCAL?
17:12:43 <ais523> ehird: no, a group project for University
17:13:11 <ais523> the group voted me a 7.3% bonus on my mark for the project based on the amount of work I'd done, which was good
17:13:31 <ehird> ais523: essentially I switched to vim
17:13:42 <ais523> ehird: I don't mind that at all
17:13:50 <ehird> ais523: I am joking of course ;)
17:14:54 <ehird> ais523: http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?trivial+encoder i submitted this
17:15:00 <ehird> the answers are suprisingly long
17:17:04 <ais523> ehird: I'm surprised there isn't a Perl entry, I think it's got a command to do that, but I may be wrong
17:18:39 <ehird> ais523: hmm, cyclexa is pretty untouched
17:18:50 <ais523> I haven't been working on it
17:18:58 <ais523> I've been busy with other things
17:22:29 <ais523> ehird: there's a bug in the examples that needs special-casing
17:22:39 <ais523> there's a newline on the input to problem 3, but not in the output
17:22:40 <ehird> well, the lexer hasn't been written yet
17:26:39 <ais523> print(<>!~/n/?pack"H*",<>:uc unpack"H*",<>) <- an answer to the correct version of the problem
17:27:06 <ehird> ais523: correct version?
17:27:17 <ais523> ehird: if you hadn't made a bug in the exampke
17:27:22 <ais523> actually, it's worse than that
17:27:31 <ais523> there's a stray A at the end of the solution to problem 3
17:27:46 <ehird> ais523: wanna fix it? :p
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17:36:20 <ais523> print+(<>!~/n/?pack"H*",<>:uc unpack"H*",<>),($$%5?'':'A')
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17:36:30 <ais523> maybe I can remove a few parens from that
17:36:42 <ais523> I just randomize to see whether to compensate for the bug
17:37:16 <ais523> print+(<>!~/n/?pack"H*",<>:uc unpack"H*",<>),$$%5?'':'A' #56 bytes
17:38:16 <ais523> hey, I have the shortest solution!
17:39:15 <ehird> ais523: now submit a fixed proposal? :P
17:39:19 <ais523> the stray A makes the problem harder
17:39:27 <ais523> and I don't feel like fixing the problem all that much
17:39:35 <ais523> the fix is only a few bytes in my code anyway
17:40:25 <olsner> eh, but it's not actually supposed to print the 'a', right?
17:40:34 <ais523> the A is a bug in the problem
17:40:46 <ais523> so I randomise to determine whether to fix the bug or not (there are three cases, only one is buggy)
17:40:56 <ais523> and then run repeatedly until the correct case has the bugfix
17:41:04 <ehird> "Lesbos islanders dispute gay name" - bbc news headline
17:42:40 <Slereah_> What do they plan to do about it?
17:42:58 <ehird> Slereah_: Complain.
17:43:20 <ehird> ais523: do you need that c-intercal mirror to stay, BTW? nobody has downloaded it
17:43:32 <ais523> ehird: not particularly
17:43:37 <ais523> do you want to take it down for some reason?
17:43:44 <ais523> it's useful to have the spread-out version
17:43:52 <ais523> but it's only a mirror, there are other sites
17:44:03 <ehird> ais523: all of my 8 log files are empty
17:44:14 <ehird> so nobody is downloading it
17:44:27 <ais523> most likely they download from the site they're used to
17:44:37 <ehird> but yeah i was going to switch my server to ubuntu, because i need some newer packages
17:44:49 <ais523> I don't mind a bit, or a lot, of downtime at all
17:45:01 <ais523> that's what mirrors are for, right? Speeding up downloads, and bridging across downtime?
17:45:22 <ehird> it just might be a while before i get an httpd on there again
17:49:34 <ehird> ais523: so ... alright to do BIG WIPE OF DETH?
17:56:27 <ais523> sorry, I didn't notice your higlight
17:56:36 <ais523> I was too focused on something else
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18:20:09 <Phenax> say I have a value at (0,0) in Befunge. How would I use 'g' to get that?
18:20:55 <Phenax> wondering why it was returning 49
18:23:40 <Phenax> 100g,p500 00g,@ .. prints 11 - shouldn't it be 15?
18:24:25 <ais523> Phenax: what are you trying to do there?
18:24:32 <ais523> there are far too many 0s, I think
18:24:54 <ais523> you've written the p500 backwards, it seems
18:25:09 <Phenax> with it the right way it prints 1|
18:25:36 <ais523> the second char's a literal ASCII 5, I suspect
18:27:05 <Phenax> 100g,500p, 00g.@ works
18:27:31 <ais523> the difference is that the first g reads the char '1' from the playfield
18:27:39 <ais523> whereas the second g reads the number 5
18:29:02 <ais523> the char '1' is a command that puts the number 1 on the stack
18:29:47 <Phenax> 22* returns the char 4 or the integer 4?
18:30:07 <Phenax> but 2 returns the char 4?
18:30:07 <ais523> you get chars reading from the playfield
18:30:19 <ais523> but integers calling the command
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19:52:06 <ais523> so that's output a 1 under 101 and under 010
19:52:14 <ais523> and output a 0 otherwise
19:52:49 <ais523> state Zero "0" to One if < Zero and > Zero;
19:52:56 <ais523> state One "1" to Zero if < One and > One.
19:53:09 <ais523> (I can't quite remember ALPACA's syntax, but that should be close enough)
19:53:31 <ais523> under 101 and under 001
19:53:47 <ais523> state Zero "0" to One if > One;
19:54:05 <ais523> Slereah_: is that what you had in mind?
19:55:07 <olsner> just write the number out in binary, number the bits 0-7 with three bits, then each bit specifies the outcome depending on three input bits
19:55:38 <olsner> iirc, rule 30 and 110 are the most famously turing complete ones
19:55:48 <ais523> was 30 proved Turing-complete?
19:55:56 <GregorR> I don't think 30 was proved.
19:56:03 <GregorR> I thought it was just believed to be.
19:56:18 <ais523> it's certainly complicated enough to look like it might be TC
20:07:38 <ais523> well, it definitely isn't TC
20:07:49 <ais523> at least, not the cellular automaton by that name
20:07:54 <GregorR> I'd like to see a paper /proving/ that.
20:08:07 <ais523> GregorR: no journal would accept it, it would be too trivial
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20:35:06 <Slereah_> You -> o [Malbolge interpreter] o <- Delicious cake
20:35:11 <Slereah_> You -> o [Malbolge interpreter] o <- Delicious cake
20:35:18 <Slereah_> You -> o [Malbolge interpreter] o <- Delicious cake
20:35:40 <ehird> Slereah_: enter malbolge program
20:35:40 <ais523> Slereah_: go round the bottom Malbolge interpreter, using the whitespace on your last-but-one line
20:35:51 <ais523> that seems the safest option
20:35:59 <ehird> ais523: it's a gap
20:36:03 <ehird> weren't you here last time?
20:36:13 <ehird> ais523: he did a cake challenge
20:36:15 <ehird> if not, go into the logs!
20:36:18 <ehird> it's just a few days ago
20:36:52 -!- ais523 has set topic: * Topic for #esoteric set by ehird at Tue May 1 20:38:58 2008 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
20:37:00 -!- ais523 has set topic: * Topic for #esoteric set by ais523 at Tue May 1 20:38:58 2008 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
20:38:34 <Slereah_> I do not advise trying your tricks.
20:38:44 <Slereah_> Lions and grues prowl outside this very line.
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20:43:43 <Slereah_> Well, what do you expect in a place with a Malbolge interpreter lying around.
20:44:06 <Slereah_> You can't expect this to end well.
20:44:57 <olsner> whatever evil lurks around the malbolge interpreter, you probably don't even want to *contemplate* the evil lurking inside it
20:45:07 <Slereah_> (Previous cake is here, minus the color : http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.04.29 )
20:45:23 <Slereah_> "Screw that, I'm trying the lions!"
20:45:43 <ais523> ehird: it was the day befor yesterday, actually
20:45:48 <ais523> 10:31:07 <ehird> Didn't the cake just eat us?
20:45:53 <ais523> (/me fixed the typo in the quote)
20:49:36 * ais523 has finished log reading the last IRP cake RPG
20:49:46 <ais523> I was a bit disappointed that the cake turned out not to be a lie in the end
20:50:18 <Slereah_> Well, lying cakes are only good for vidya games.
20:50:24 <Slereah_> Internet cakes must simply be reached.
20:50:37 <ais523> well, an IRP cake game is hardly an audio game
20:54:01 <Slereah_> You -> o [Malbolge interpreter] o <- Delicious cake
20:54:31 * ais523 feeds a Hello, World program to the Malbolge interpreter
20:54:42 <ais523> copying it off the Esolang wiki, because writing Malbolge is hard
20:55:25 <ehird> ais523: i never actually expected to get the cake
20:55:39 <ais523> Slereah_: what happens?
20:55:43 <Slereah_> o[Malbolge interpreter]Hello, world. o <- Delicious cake
20:56:04 <ais523> I feed myself to the Malbolge interpreter.
20:56:33 <Slereah_> [Malbolge interpreter]invalid character in source file o <- Delicious cake
20:56:58 <Slereah_> You -> o [Malbolge interpreter] o <- Delicious cake
20:57:24 <ais523> hmm... it's hard to see how to get around this without actually writing some Malbolge
20:57:32 <ais523> EXAMINE Malbolge interpreter
20:57:45 <Slereah_> It is an interpreter. For the Malbolge language.
20:57:49 <ais523> in particular, I check to see if it's Ben Olmstead's original Malbolge interpreter, or a newer one
21:00:48 <ehird> Slereah_: Can we formulate malbolge programs given a description of what it does?
21:00:49 <ais523> I was looking for buffer overflows in the interp, but couldn't find any
21:01:14 <ais523> hacking the interp is easier than actually writing Malbolge programs
21:01:34 <ehird> ais523: but look what i said
21:02:12 <ehird> ais523: I love how we threw the dead lion and just flew with it previously
21:02:44 <ais523> Slereah_: when I fed the hello world program to the Malbolge interp, were the os that came out people?
21:03:08 <Slereah_> Is that a metaphorical question?
21:03:34 <ais523> I was wondering if I could feed a hello world to it and then ask the people that came out to throw me some slices of cake back
21:04:15 <ehird> ais523: you just know they would be malicious
21:04:20 <Slereah_> Well, the cake would probably just land on the interpreter.
21:04:20 <ehird> and that a lion would appear somehow
21:04:27 <ehird> and there would be no CAR to JESUS CHRIST GET INTO
21:05:42 <Slereah_> ehird : I wouldn't try something like that.
21:05:49 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Lion.jpg
21:06:23 <Slereah_> Inventory : Supply of letters.
21:06:38 <ais523> Slereah_: do I have any letters with ASCII codes above 128?
21:07:16 <Slereah_> A rubber chicken, with a pulley in the middle
21:07:26 <ehird> Slereah_: monkey island! yay!
21:07:42 <Slereah_> Well, it wouldn't be an adventure game without some rope and a rubber chicken
21:07:51 <ais523> Slereah_: I kill the Malbolge interpreter. If that doesn't work, I kill it with a 9.
21:07:55 <Slereah_> Same reason I included matches last time :o
21:08:27 <Slereah_> How do you kill that which has no life?
21:08:35 <ais523> Slereah_: with my hacking tools
21:08:46 <ais523> I assume there's a signal generator in there somewhere
21:08:47 <Slereah_> Well, you have to be more specific then.
21:08:58 <Slereah_> but beware of the lion hidden in the code!
21:11:22 <Slereah_> The hacking tools only permits you to GO INSIDE THE INTERPRETER
21:11:41 <Slereah_> Sort of like Beneath a steel sky, when you ENTER CYBERSPACE
21:12:34 <ais523> going inside a Malbolge interpreter is unlikely to be a sane idea
21:12:50 <ais523> Slereah_: I fill the Malbolge interpreter with 59049 non-breaking spaces
21:13:08 <ais523> that causes it to go into an infinite loop
21:13:13 <ais523> should make things slightly safer
21:14:01 <olsner> yeah, keep the malbolge interpreter busy while you carefully go back out the way you came
21:14:50 <Slereah_> Is there a simple way to generate 59049 chars.
21:15:21 <ais523> Slereah_: I start with three non-breaking spaces
21:15:32 <ais523> I then make three copies of my three non-breaking spaces, so I have 9 non-breaking spaces
21:15:42 <ais523> I then make three copies of those, gaining 27 non-breaking spaces
21:16:07 <ais523> Slereah_: it's the character , rather than an ordinary space
21:16:22 <ais523> it has an ASCII code above 128, and so gums up the Malbolge interpreter due to the bug in it
21:16:50 <Slereah_> Can't I just use something above 128 that's on my keyboard?
21:16:57 <ais523> Slereah_: there's one there, just after the colon
21:17:01 <ais523> but yes, you can if you like
21:18:45 <ais523> once the Malbolge interpreter's busy with that, I look to see if there's a nearby source of water, and if there isn't proceed to enter the interpreter
21:20:34 <Slereah_> Notepad seems to not appreciate 59049 characters.
21:20:39 <Slereah_> It is currently not responding.
21:20:52 <ais523> Slereah_: remember to delete the final newline
21:21:22 <Slereah_> But, you know, even if it is a malbolge interpreter, it is not hostile
21:21:33 <Slereah_> it won't run after you if you try to search for water.
21:21:37 <ais523> Slereah_: yes, but I wanted to keep it busy while I went inside
21:21:45 <ais523> the water's to cool it down if that infiniloop makes it overheat
21:24:39 <Slereah_> Traceback (most recent call last):
21:24:39 <Slereah_> File "G:/Python25/59.py", line 1, in <module>
21:24:39 <Slereah_> p=open("G:\Documents and Settings\Slereah\Bureau\test.txt","w")
21:24:39 <Slereah_> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\Documents and Settings\\Slereah\\Bureau\test.txt'
21:24:48 <Slereah_> Oh Python, why must you be so cruel to me.
21:25:03 <Slereah_> I was just gonna do a loop to write in!
21:27:43 * ais523 tried to upload such a file to the Pastebin
21:27:50 <ais523> it's a one-liner to generate that in Perl
21:28:01 <ais523> but it rejected the file because it thought it was binary
21:30:11 <ais523> well, can I enter the interp now?
21:30:36 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Busy.jpg
21:31:02 <ais523> I look around for a safe pathway.
21:31:20 <ais523> if I see one, I run along it
21:32:06 <Slereah_> There seems to be no danger from outside.
21:32:12 <ais523> Slereah_: sorry, I didn't phrase that properly, I meant look for a pathway going deeper into the interpreter
21:32:43 <ais523> grr, programming is hard, even in IRP
21:33:25 <Slereah_> If you want to go explore into the interpreter, just say so.
21:33:34 <ais523> I thought I'd said that already
21:33:40 <ais523> I want to go explore into the interpreter
21:34:25 <ais523> AnMaster: I immobilised a Malbolge interpreter using 59049 metacharacters, and have now used hacking tools to go inside it in search of delicious cake
21:34:41 <ais523> I have a supply of letters, a rope and a rubber chicken with a pulley in it
21:35:05 <ais523> AnMaster: see logs for the day before yesterday for the previous episode
21:35:10 <ais523> I wasn't there then, though
21:35:39 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast.jpg
21:36:45 <ais523> I carefully climb down to the first line of the comments.
21:37:02 -!- ais523_ has joined.
21:37:21 -!- ais523 has quit (""Changing server."").
21:37:24 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
21:37:41 <ais523> (freenode asked me to change server due to downtime on the one I was connected to.)
21:41:57 <ais523> so, I clamber carefully down to the first comment
21:42:05 <ais523> then start climbing down the column of asterisks
21:42:30 <ais523> oh, and as you're using Windows, no wonder my signal generator didn't work
21:43:15 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%202.jpg
21:43:16 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%203.jpg
21:43:24 <Slereah_> You're lucky that lion was looking the other way!
21:43:51 <ais523> although I would have tried to distract it with the rubber chicken if necessary
21:44:25 <ais523> I climb down to the bottom of the column of asterisks, grabbing the author's credits on the way
21:44:43 <AnMaster> "a rubber chicken with a pulley in it"
21:45:36 <AnMaster> ais523, no! grab something that would work for comments
21:45:48 <AnMaster> I don't think you can survive outside a comment for long
21:46:07 <ais523> AnMaster: yes I can, I gummed up the interpreter with a whole load of high-bit-set characters
21:46:15 <ais523> it's a known bug in that particular Malbolge interpreter
21:46:23 <AnMaster> yes but will that not cause a compile error?
21:46:33 <AnMaster> when there is a o outside a comment?
21:47:07 <ais523> AnMaster: not sure, you generally have to explore a lot to discover the physics of Slereah_'s game worlds
21:47:10 <Slereah_> Well, he has limitless chars in his pockets.
21:47:22 <Slereah_> He can just make a comment cloak.
21:47:36 <AnMaster> ais523, check if it is c99 compiler
21:48:08 <ais523> AnMaster: trying to figure out a safe way to do that
21:48:08 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%204.jpg
21:48:11 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%205.jpg
21:48:32 <AnMaster> Slereah_, what happened to that space above in the latter?
21:48:38 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%206.jpg
21:48:40 <AnMaster> Slereah_, also ais523 did grab the copyright
21:48:52 <ais523> no, apparently it was too heavy for me to move
21:49:21 <AnMaster> Slereah_, care to scroll down the window a bit?
21:49:33 <AnMaster> ais523, you need a cloak like /*o*/
21:49:43 <ais523> I carefully this on the next few lines, while hiding inside the comment:
21:49:45 <AnMaster> <ais523> I climb down to the bottom of the column of asterisks, grabbing the author's credits on the way
21:49:56 <ais523> #if __STDC_VERSION > 199901
21:50:10 <AnMaster> "I carefully this" you mean "place this"?
21:50:29 <AnMaster> Slereah_, so what happens with that diagnostic?
21:50:31 <ais523> and that Malbolge interp's public domain, so no copyright
21:51:17 <AnMaster> you know, this executes slower than my attempt at a befunge93 interpreter in bash....
21:51:32 <AnMaster> IRP must be the slowest language in existance
21:51:45 <ais523> AnMaster: is a befunge93 interpreter in bash faster or slower than a befunge93 interpreter in INTERCAL?
21:53:01 <ais523> C-INTERCAL 0.28 has a Befunge-93 interp in the /pit directory
21:53:15 <AnMaster> after all C-INTERCAL can take advantage of GCC's -O options
21:53:23 <ais523> OK, I'll run it over here under CLC-INTERCAL
21:53:37 <AnMaster> as in did implement some parts of 98
21:53:58 <ais523> what's a fair test? The Befunge-93 part of Mycology?
21:54:01 <AnMaster> like unlimited height of playfield, but not unlimited width
21:54:19 <AnMaster> ais523, well that bit would detect it as 98 I think
21:54:20 <ais523> Interfunge errors out on excessive height or width
21:54:34 <ais523> so I'd have to crop down Mycology anyway
21:54:47 <AnMaster> well pastebin the cropped version
21:55:01 <AnMaster> Slereah_, well what happend with that diagnostic?
21:57:42 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%207.jpg
21:57:45 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%208.jpg
21:58:04 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%209.jpg
21:58:20 <ais523> if nothing happens, it's C89
21:58:32 <AnMaster> well you got to move down one line
21:58:37 <ais523> unless the compiler really does interpret a #pragma DIAGNOSTIC
21:58:43 <ais523> and yes, I jump down below the #endif
21:58:48 <ais523> in fact not jump, duck
21:58:58 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%2010.jpg
21:59:01 <AnMaster> ais523, as it is windows.... well could be gcc or msvc
21:59:17 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, it could be
21:59:28 <AnMaster> Slereah_, that is because you can't replace a running executable on windows....
21:59:35 <ais523> but that's a pretty good C89 vs C99 test that doesn't crash the program and works at compile time
21:59:50 <Slereah_> AnMaster : I'm not the one feeding him infinite chars!
22:00:03 <ais523> most C99 compilers will complain about a bad pragma if they see that code
22:00:04 <AnMaster> Slereah_, well we was assuming a real OS
22:00:22 <ais523> AnMaster: no, I was assuming Windows when I saw the font in the command line, and the directory name given there
22:00:36 <ais523> that's why my signal generator didn't work
22:00:43 <AnMaster> ais523, well problem is you can't replace a running executable on windows
22:00:52 <AnMaster> ais523, err signal generator?!
22:00:59 <ais523> AnMaster: to kill things, with 9s
22:01:00 <ehird> AnMaster can make even a cake challenge into an OS-pissing contest
22:01:04 <ehird> and protest about things that aren't standard
22:01:44 <AnMaster> ehird, Windows and pre-OSX are the only OS I have seen where you can't replace a open file
22:02:01 <ehird> AnMaster: you're still doing it
22:02:11 <ais523> AnMaster: well, even on POSIX replacing a running file doesn't alter the running of the program
22:02:38 <Slereah_> Well, he's still running on that file.
22:02:41 <AnMaster> Slereah_, still show us compiler output?
22:02:53 <ais523> AnMaster: that is so a metagame output
22:03:14 <ais523> no, I just continue through the game and see if I come across a diagnostic later
22:03:47 <AnMaster> ais523, you can output chars with C preprocessor
22:04:03 <AnMaster> ais523, there is a 99 bottles of bear in C preprocessor
22:04:14 <ais523> Slereah_: I work my way down to the main function
22:04:48 <ais523> AnMaster: look at the earlier pics, I have a comment cloak on already
22:05:03 <AnMaster> ais523, apparently #pragma message
22:05:06 <AnMaster> http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-c-c++-preprocessor-115.html
22:05:26 <ais523> see the comment, it says it works only in Visual C++
22:06:47 <ais523> it could be any other compiler claiming to be C99
22:06:48 <AnMaster> ais523, his screenshot of linker output is from the open source IDE Dev-C++
22:07:10 <ais523> I used to use that, and IIRC they open-sourced some old versions
22:07:26 <ais523> besides an open source IDE is still capable of using a closed-source compiler
22:07:29 <AnMaster> ais523, last I checked Dev-C++ used mingw stuff
22:07:37 <AnMaster> not sure if it could be changed
22:07:49 <AnMaster> which indicates mingw I think?
22:07:51 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%2011.jpg
22:08:13 <AnMaster> Slereah_, what one? the one below?
22:08:18 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%2012.jpg
22:09:08 <ais523> Slereah_: I quickly wrap myself in a string literal that initialises a global variable, and then attempt to attack the comment with a C preprocessor.
22:09:42 <ais523> (this is why I grabbed the credits, BTW; it's so I don't discredit the author while throwing preprocessors aroung.)
22:09:49 <Slereah_> Could you rephrase that statement in the term of a copypasta?
22:10:11 <ais523> (that's how I cloak myself)
22:10:26 <ais523> and then run the preprocessor, it's probably with the -E option if you use mingw
22:10:32 <ais523> should eliminate all comments and everything inside them
22:10:59 <ais523> incidentally, isn't my original typo still legal C?
22:11:03 <ais523> you can assign a pointer to an int
22:11:11 <ais523> and nothing's looking at abc, so the UB is never invoked
22:11:14 <Phenax> I'm trying to make a loop that continually goes +1 in Befunge: 0 00g1+00p 00g, - after nine it turns into ;, and keeps turning into different symbols. How can I make it a number and not a character?
22:11:31 <ais523> Phenax: start with a NUL in the top left corner
22:12:03 <ais523> or write one there yourself: 000p00g1+00p00g, (and reloop)
22:12:07 <AnMaster> because that is what you are doing
22:12:20 <ais523> and use numeric output not string output
22:12:21 <AnMaster> ais523, yes, you need to write it out yourself in fact
22:12:32 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Inside%20the%20beast%2013.jpg
22:12:46 <AnMaster> Slereah_, what about the pre-processor?
22:12:54 <Slereah_> (You are once again of that shiny red, you feel more real already!)
22:13:08 <AnMaster> <ais523> and then run the preprocessor, it's probably with the -E option if you use mingw
22:13:20 <ais523> but you'll want -o too to give an output file, or it'll output to stdout
22:14:14 <Slereah_> (I should probably close the malbolge program by the way, it's starting to take way too much power)
22:14:36 <ais523> Slereah_: yep, it'll just infiniloop for ever, so no need to keep it running because you know what it'll do
22:14:42 <AnMaster> Slereah_, well in the game it is still running
22:15:17 <ais523> Slereah_: gcc -E malbolge.c -o malbolge.i at the command line is possibly the simplest wat
22:15:35 <Slereah_> I should also probably save the C file
22:15:37 <AnMaster> Slereah_, well in a terminal something like: gcc -E oldfile.c -o newfile.c
22:15:37 <ais523> or most IDEs have a preprocess option in the menus somewhere
22:16:03 <AnMaster> Phenax, of course it overwrites itself
22:16:04 <ais523> Phenax: you're overwriting your own code, but that's fine in Befunge
22:16:13 <ais523> if you don't want to, just put a space at the start of the program
22:16:18 <ais523> so it's overwritten instead
22:16:23 <AnMaster> you just want a program to just add 1 to a counter?
22:16:37 <AnMaster> and that counter needs to be in funge space?
22:16:39 <ais523> I think Phenax is deliberately trying to do it using g and p
22:16:51 <AnMaster> if it doesn't, you could just do:
22:17:03 <Phenax> Well in BuQunge (I don't know if it's crap, but I like debugging, so I use it in conjunction with vanilla) it literally just deletes the value and leaves it blank
22:17:30 <ais523> Phenax: NULs are invisible, so you can't see them
22:17:48 <AnMaster> Phenax, try ccbi, it got good debugging
22:18:02 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Go%20and%20be%20free.jpg
22:18:03 <AnMaster> but cfunge lacks good debugger yet
22:18:08 <ais523> so it probably works, you just can't see what happened
22:18:10 <Phenax> I don't care much for speed
22:18:19 <AnMaster> Slereah_, duh. full path of course
22:18:29 <Phenax> Any recommended editor for Befunge? It's kind of annoying to edit :\
22:18:39 <ais523> Phenax: Emacs' picture-mode is good
22:18:42 <Slereah_> It says that gcc is not a valid command, AnMaster.
22:18:52 <ais523> Slereah_: it's probably on your computer, it just can't find it
22:18:55 <AnMaster> Slereah_, that is because it isn't in PATH
22:18:56 <ais523> AnMaster: M-x picture-mode
22:19:02 <ais523> causes all lines to become logically infinitely long
22:19:22 <ais523> and you can set the cursor motion after you type a char to go downwards or backwards if you like
22:19:36 <AnMaster> Slereah_, I don't know on windows
22:19:47 <ais523> Slereah_: not sure what directory it's in, but searching for gcc.exe should tell you
22:19:54 <ais523> AnMaster: I used to use Windows quite a bit
22:19:59 <ais523> but I didn't use mingw
22:20:16 <AnMaster> ais523, and I got custom location for mingw anyway
22:20:25 <AnMaster> it varies depending on how it was installed
22:20:39 <AnMaster> ie: by itself, by dev-c++, by msys
22:21:17 <AnMaster> ais523, ah the picture mode is mostly useful when you got a small screen
22:21:30 <AnMaster> I tend to keep my befunge programs no wider than 100 chars
22:21:35 <ais523> AnMaster: it's useful anyway, to avoid the need to fill lines with spaces
22:21:39 <ais523> you press down, the cursor goes down
22:21:45 <ais523> no problems with jumping to the end of the next line
22:22:12 <AnMaster> ais523, does it remove unneeded trailing spaces?
22:22:27 <AnMaster> and un-needed trailing newlines?
22:22:28 <ais523> but you have to watch out for it converting spaces to tabs
22:22:48 <ais523> it doesn't convert spaces to tabs
22:22:53 <ais523> but it adds them as tabs sometimes
22:22:56 <Slereah_> Ah, GCC was on the other hard drive.
22:22:59 <ais523> actually, I'm not sure about the trailing spaces
22:23:42 <Slereah_> (What's the command to change HD?)
22:23:46 <ais523> no, it doesn't remove them
22:23:49 <AnMaster> Slereah_, why not just a real OS, even ehird prefers POSIX, Mac OS X is POSIX
22:23:56 <ais523> Slereah_: D: to change to drive D
22:24:00 <ehird> <AnMaster> Slereah_, why not just a real OS, even ehird prefers POSIX, Mac OS X is POSIX
22:24:03 <ehird> I love how you say that casually
22:24:04 <ais523> AnMaster: presumably not in that case
22:24:18 <ehird> I am utterly speechless how you can consider that a viable option to do for the sake of an irc game.
22:24:31 <AnMaster> Slereah_, you could use f:\full\path\to\gcc.exe
22:24:36 <ais523> AnMaster: technically speaking Windows is POSIX too, at least when they tested it they got a 'did not definitively fail' answer
22:24:45 <ais523> and that was with lots of special stuff just to get it to pass the tests
22:25:59 <AnMaster> ais523, but how the heck did they handle that POSIX requires case sensitive filenames?
22:26:14 <ais523> probably a hack on the ~1 stuff
22:26:42 <ais523> I wonder how they handled fork()? Probably just by returning ENOTIMPLEMENTED, IIRC they did that whenever it was allowed
22:27:07 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Go%20and%20be%20free%202.jpg
22:27:34 <AnMaster> Slereah_, "Pime Taradox" means?
22:27:47 <Slereah_> http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Pime_taradox
22:27:56 <ais523> well, in that case I continue on my journey through the program
22:28:19 <ehird> AnMaster: os x is a case insensitive filesystem
22:28:26 <ehird> AnMaster: and its posix
22:28:32 <AnMaster> ehird, it is? didn't know that
22:28:34 <ais523> Slereah_: under the # 78 line
22:28:35 <ehird> its even a real unix
22:28:56 <ehird> <AnMaster> not that site please...
22:28:57 <ais523> ehird: its case sensitivity is user-configurable, I think
22:29:05 <ehird> you asked him to define a word
22:29:18 <ehird> since its on ed, it'll be a *chan or similar meme
22:29:24 <ehird> ergo ED will be the only place for a definition
22:29:28 <ehird> sans urbandictionary or osmethign else
22:29:31 <ehird> ais523: not really
22:31:00 <Slereah_> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Go%20and%20be%20free%203.jpg
22:31:17 <Slereah_> People would rather trick Satan than write in Malbolge.
22:32:00 <ais523> well, I then through a 59050th top-bit-set character into the interpreter
22:32:03 <ais523> wait for it to error out
22:32:14 <ais523> and then run out through the exit(1) that I've just modified the source code into
22:33:09 <Slereah_> Shouldn't you get out of it before you throw stuff in? :o
22:33:25 * ais523 is lucky Ben Olmstead always but parens around the argument to return
22:34:02 <ais523> Slereah_: OK, that seems reasonable
22:34:17 <ais523> I write # 1 "malbolge.c" on the line immediately below where I am
22:34:30 <ais523> then that's line 1 of the program, by definition, so I'm at the place where I entered
22:35:13 <AnMaster> Slereah_, he is playing by the rules!
22:35:34 <Slereah_> Well, you're blue now, mister comment.
22:35:38 <ais523> Slereah_: I throw in the 59050th char
22:36:19 <AnMaster> ais523, that cause a crash doesn't it iirc?
22:36:32 <ais523> to be precise, it causes an exit(1) with the new source code
22:36:38 <ais523> then all I have to do is run through that exit
22:37:35 <AnMaster> Slereah_, and there is NO way you will get anyone to write malbolge for this you know
22:38:49 <Slereah_> o[Malbolge interpreter] Can't open file o
22:39:03 <Slereah_> YOU ARE NO CLOSER TO THE DELICIOUS CAKE
22:39:08 <ais523> Slereah_: I run through the exit it created when it put the "Can't open file" up
22:39:41 <Corun> But, I played the delicious cake game with slereah as the game master the other day
22:40:06 <ais523> Corun: this time wasn't just ASCII art, it also had screenshots of ASCII art
22:40:11 <ais523> with syntax higlighting
22:40:53 <ais523> Slereah_: I walk over to the delicious cake
22:41:07 <ais523> Slereah_: I eat the delicious cake.
22:41:39 <Slereah_> But still, a simpler solution was to change the program to make it output "o" and input yourself in :o
22:41:51 <ais523> BTW, a long time ago I was working on an esolang-based text adventure
22:41:58 <ais523> I've only done three puzzles
22:42:03 <ais523> none of which lead to anywhere useful
22:42:09 <ais523> but it might still be fun over IRC
22:42:25 * ais523 wonders whether to promise "There will be cake"
22:42:34 <AnMaster> <ais523> I've only done three puzzles
22:42:44 <ais523> although if I do make that promise, I'll put some cake in as an item
22:42:59 <ais523> AnMaster: there's a Befunge Hunt the Wumpus
22:43:11 <ais523> my game wasn't in an esolang, although I might translate it into one
22:43:17 <ais523> but it had esolang-based puzzles
22:43:45 <ais523> You are standing in the main hall of what appears to be some sort of
22:43:49 <ais523> castle. There is a door in each of the east and west walls; the one in
22:43:50 <ais523> the west wall has a [ symbol marked on it, but there are no markings on
22:43:50 <ais523> the door in the east wall. There is a large staircase, which goes upwards
22:43:50 <ais523> to a balcony high on the north side of the room. The south of the room is a
22:43:50 <ais523> large door, heavily barred with wooden bars that you would have no chance
22:43:58 <ais523> three possible ways to go
22:44:00 <ais523> each one leads to a different puzzle
22:44:08 <ais523> none of the puzzles lead anywhere yet, though
22:44:13 <ais523> although there are 4 possible destinations
22:44:54 <Slereah_> Also, here's your end theme ais523 : http://youtube.com/watch?v=RthZgszykLs
22:45:11 <ais523> Slereah_: can't watch it, I decided to uninstall Flash
22:45:21 <ais523> because it isn't good for much other than watching videos
22:45:29 <ais523> and most Flash-based websites are lousy
22:46:14 <ais523> it prevents me watching YouTube, though
22:46:30 <AnMaster> simple befunge-98 counter that prints 1-1000
22:46:32 <ais523> AnMaster: that looks lousy in a proportional font
22:46:41 <AnMaster> ais523, well don't use that for irc
22:46:45 <ais523> and you could make that befunge-93 easily enough
22:47:20 <ais523> 5558*** is probably the easiest way to write 1000 in Befunge-93
22:47:37 <AnMaster> ais523, not sure if it is the shortest
22:48:00 <ais523> shortest, or smallest?
22:48:03 <AnMaster> I just divided with 5 each time
22:48:05 <ais523> remember Befunge is 2D
22:48:10 <AnMaster> ais523, shortest in source code
22:48:21 <ais523> what if there was a 2x3 solution?
22:49:05 <ais523> anyone want a go at the text adventure I started above, anyway?
22:49:07 <AnMaster> ais523, I just divided by 5 a few times as I knew it would be even numbers each time
22:49:21 <ais523> AnMaster: 5 and 2 are the only prime factors of 1000
22:49:34 <ais523> multiplying 5 with 2, or 5s with each other, goes above 10
22:49:37 <AnMaster> ais523, don't have any calculator for that around
22:49:42 <ais523> so multiplying the 2s is the only sane way
22:50:05 <ais523> so it's probably on your computer
22:50:11 <ais523> but I knew that one off by heart anyway
22:50:21 <Slereah_> Well, prime factorisation is unique
22:50:23 <AnMaster> bash: factor: command not found
22:50:30 <ais523> OK, so not on your computer
22:50:36 <Slereah_> And since 10*10*10 = 1000, it's pretty obvious that it's 2 and 5
22:50:38 <AnMaster> but I didn't have any handy tools to do it
22:51:02 <ais523> AnMaster: you're 1 hour later than me, then
22:51:09 <ais523> but feel free to leave, nobody's keeping you
22:51:23 <AnMaster> anyway infinite counter is easier:
22:51:44 <AnMaster> not sure if there is any shorter way
22:51:59 <ais523> unless there's an increment instruction
22:52:30 <AnMaster> ais523, not that I know of, not in core, and not in any fingerprints I implemented iirc
22:52:32 <ais523> I can't think of one that's shorter than Befunge for that
22:52:44 <Phenax> Haskell is one longer.. [1..]
22:52:57 <ais523> Phenax: that's not a program, just an expression
22:53:06 <ais523> so it'll work in ghci, I think, but not ghc
22:53:48 <ais523> t.hs:2:0: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
22:54:03 <ais523> AnMaster: doing integer to text conversion's a pain in Brainfuck
22:54:30 <ais523> if you do have integer output, say o, it would be +[o+]
22:54:36 <AnMaster> Slereah_, for cfunge, depending on compile time options, either MAX_UINT32 or MAX_UINT64
22:54:41 <Phenax> Are there any other good "General Purpose" esoteric languages like Befunge?
22:54:58 <ais523> Phenax: if you're talking about usability, Befunge's one of the best
22:55:11 <ais523> although I find Thutu useful for some things, it's more useful with wimpmode arithmetic
22:55:15 <AnMaster> Phenax, there is even socket support in Befunge
22:55:24 <Phenax> Yeah, I'm looking for something esoteric but still not impossibly insane to make something like the Sieve of Eratosthenes in
22:55:25 <AnMaster> Phenax, with the correct befunge-98 fingerprint
22:55:32 <ais523> and INTERCAL's pretty good for many things, but extremely weak on string handling
22:55:48 <Phenax> i'm using ccbi for now
22:55:50 <ais523> if you don't use strings, though, writing programs is not too hard
22:55:54 <AnMaster> Phenax, ccbi is good, very good
22:56:04 <Phenax> yeah, i'm mainly looking at doing mathematical programs
22:56:18 <AnMaster> Phenax, I think Sieve of Eratosthenes may be implemented
22:56:29 <ais523> oh, and INTERCAL outputs in Roman numerals by default, but there are libraries for output in decimal
22:56:55 <ais523> Phenax: http://intercal.freeshell.org
22:57:13 <AnMaster> Phenax, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge#Examples
22:57:37 <AnMaster> don't ask me how it works, I need to analyze it first
22:57:58 <Phenax> Befunge is ackward to program in a regular text editor lol
22:58:51 <ais523> Atari-syntax INTERCAL is much easier
22:59:07 <ais523> but that syntax was designed to work well on ASCII-based systems
23:00:06 <AnMaster> Phenax, well I don't know, depends on coding style
23:00:27 <AnMaster> Phenax, mostly you can make program flow simply like:
23:00:59 <ais523> AnMaster: you're wasting every second line
23:01:23 <AnMaster> ais523, yes but adding new stuff is a pain
23:01:59 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"").
23:02:13 <Slereah_> I wonder if I could do a Church numeral -> ASCII converter for Lazy Bird.
23:02:28 <Slereah_> Checking if a combinator is a numeral is easy enough.
23:02:54 <Slereah_> It would get rid of all the . problems.
23:03:11 <Slereah_> And be terrible to program in, but well.
23:13:00 * Slereah_ downloads the malbolge interpreter again
23:13:12 <Slereah_> Mine is full of strange things for some reason.
23:25:12 <ehird> <ais523> anyone want a go at the text adventure I started above, anyway?
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23:28:26 <Slereah_> I just inputed an empty file in the Malbolge interpreter, and it does not terminate :o
23:28:45 <ehird> Slereah_: Of course not.
23:29:07 <Slereah_> Then why did Ais needed 59.049 to do that?
23:29:30 -!- comex has joined.
23:29:59 <ehird> I think to keep it busy.
23:30:03 <ehird> As opposed to just inflooping
23:37:47 <ehird> Slereah_: do another cake challenge
23:37:50 <ehird> but with a cross of
23:37:55 <ehird> zork & hunt the wumpus
23:37:59 <ehird> (i.e. no actual pics)
23:40:33 <Slereah_> Plus, I'm not the one barging in on the code :o
23:40:37 <ehird> Slereah_: google 'em
23:41:42 <Slereah_> By no pix, do you mean no pix, or not even ASCII art?
23:41:57 <Slereah_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt_the_Wumpus
23:42:04 <Slereah_> "What a Wumpus might look like
23:42:56 <ehird> Slereah_: not even ascii art
23:43:24 <Slereah_> I doubt I have the game mastering skill necessary.
23:45:10 <ehird> Slereah_: http://thcnet.net/zork/index.php zork
23:45:43 <ehird> Slereah_: Zork is where grues originated
23:46:01 <ehird> Slereah_: zork invented grues
23:46:28 <Slereah_> I know, you said it three lines above
23:47:35 <Slereah_> Plus, such a game would need an actual scenario of some sort.
23:47:45 <Slereah_> I would have to, you know, actually work at it.
23:50:25 <ehird> http://bnewtz.cannet.com/wumpus/
23:52:24 <Slereah_> I'm not a big fan of text based adventures
23:52:54 <ehird> Slereah_: Wumpus aint a text adventure
23:53:00 <Slereah_> but it is quite excruciating to find out what you can act upon
23:53:30 <ehird> It's a type-and-shoot game of bottomless pit proportions!
23:55:38 <sauxdado> Slereah_: it's less excruciating with many modern interactive fiction games
23:55:46 <Slereah_> THE CAKE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY NINJAS
23:55:57 <Slereah_> ARE YOU BAD ENOUGH A DUDE TO FIND THE CAKE?
23:57:36 <sauxdado> Slereah_: for the same reason that many modern webpages look so much nicer than the pages from the 90s
23:58:07 <Slereah_> sauxdado : Would it be that much tougher to just make a LIST option to list what's active?
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23:58:44 <ehird> Slereah_: Removes some challenge
23:58:44 <sauxdado> Slereah_: that's a different genre.
23:59:07 <sauxdado> Slereah_: consider a Quake clone where you have a list of options of which monster to kill.
23:59:19 <Slereah_> Well, I suppose that at least easily savable games would make it nicer
23:59:45 <Slereah_> sauxdado : Most adventure games do this in some form