00:00:06 <Slereah_> Objects that you can interact with usually are easy to spot
00:00:07 <ehird> Slereah_: No they do not
00:00:18 <Slereah_> Unless they're pixel hunting games.
00:00:42 <sauxdado> Slereah_: i haven't played any interactive fiction games where there would be problems with saving.
00:01:05 <Slereah_> I'm not very used to all-comand
00:01:06 <GregorR> RodgerTheGreat: Y'know what's really great about my People from the Internet T-shirt? No two people interpret it in /quite/ the same way :P
00:01:14 <Slereah_> I started 'em computers in 95.
00:01:48 <sauxdado> many really good IF games came out _after_ 95.
00:02:23 <Slereah_> But didn't have good publicity apparently.
00:02:39 <Slereah_> Even though I had CD's with 5000 sharewares back then
00:03:44 <GregorR> RodgerTheGreat: Some people just find it funny, some people think I'm making vast claims about all Internet users (which I am, but that's not the point X-P), some people are offended (somebody wearing a Linux T-shirt was :P), ...
00:04:06 <sauxdado> Slereah_: really good things tend to not be very popular. Modern IF is often more of an art form than a game genre. So it's not very popular outside of a small community of artsy-programmer geeks.
00:04:41 <Slereah_> sauxdado : I played silly arcade and Lucas Arts adventure games back then.
00:04:58 <GregorR> RodgerTheGreat: It definitely draws comments X-D
00:05:50 <sauxdado> and photopia kinda started a wave
00:06:15 <sauxdado> it's like... one of the first modern IF game or something
00:06:23 <sauxdado> so you're unlikely to have been playing any in 95
00:07:12 <Slereah_> sauxdado : I tried this one : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Colour_of_Magic_%28computer_game%29
00:07:55 <sauxdado> well, that's ancient and probably very crappy
00:08:00 <Slereah_> And this one : http://www.mobygames.com/game/nine-princes-in-amber
00:08:14 <Slereah_> So no game from after 86 for me :o
00:08:30 <ehird> sauxdado: what do you think of the HHGTTG game?
00:08:33 <Slereah_> I only tried them because I like the series.
00:08:52 <sauxdado> Slereah_: the difference between those games and modern IF games is about as big as the difference between _graphical_ games from now and from '86
00:09:13 <Slereah_> Although Nine prince in Amber was sort of graphical
00:09:15 <sauxdado> okay, maybe not as extreme, but very appreciable
00:09:25 <Slereah_> It had big ANSI pix to go with the text.
00:09:43 <sauxdado> ehird: i'm not really a big fan....
00:09:55 <sauxdado> ehird: i never got far in it (or any other infocom game)
00:09:56 <ehird> sauxdado: of the books or..
00:10:00 <Slereah_> But Maniac Mansion was okay though.
00:10:04 <ehird> i didn't get far either
00:10:07 <ehird> they are really really hard
00:10:16 <ehird> Slereah_: oh lawd maniac mansion owns
00:10:35 <Slereah_> Although Maniac Mansion was too linearly-non-linear
00:10:43 <ehird> sauxdado: I gotta admire the code that was behind that
00:10:50 <ehird> it's like AMICED in turkey bomb
00:10:51 <Slereah_> By that I mean that you could do a lot of things, but few of them got you to the end.
00:10:57 <ehird> Slereah_: That was the game's strength
00:11:01 <ehird> Ever microwaved the hamster?
00:11:07 <ehird> Grave of player appears in the yard.
00:11:10 <Slereah_> Never went far enough to do it.
00:11:16 <ehird> microwaved then gave back to owner
00:11:26 <Slereah_> But I did microwave it in DOTT!
00:11:36 <ehird> Slereah_: Lucasarts buddies <3
00:12:38 <Slereah_> I played most of them, except some of the very first.
00:12:55 <Slereah_> I never went far on Indy 3 also
00:13:20 <ehird> I can 'speed run' Monkey Island 1 pretty well though
00:13:27 <ehird> Not really a speed run
00:13:29 <ehird> But not slow either
00:13:40 <Slereah_> I know most of the solutions :D
00:14:03 <ehird> dig's atmosphere was incredible
00:14:06 <ehird> it was really hard though
00:14:21 <ehird> i never actually completed monkey island 2
00:14:27 <ehird> because of lechuck in the fucking underground caves
00:14:31 <Slereah_> Well, it was packaged with Afterlife, which was even harder :o
00:18:22 <ehird> Slereah_: monkey island 4 suxed
00:18:46 <Slereah_> That's because nothing is as good as it used to!
00:19:04 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:19:22 <ehird> Slereah_: but MI4 did sux.
00:19:36 <Slereah_> Also cartoon adventure games do not adapt well to
00:20:03 <Slereah_> They should just have gone back to the serious graphics of 1 and 2 if they wanted to do 3D.
00:20:55 <ehird> Slereah_: Loom was a work of art. y/n
00:22:43 <ehird> i never finished it
00:24:01 <Slereah_> YOU SHOULD PROBABLY NOT HAVE READ THAT
00:24:10 <ehird> Slereah_: i think i know the ending
00:24:19 <ehird> i mean, it doesnt go
00:24:23 <ehird> and stay like that forever
00:24:32 <ehird> but, Slereah_, sequels were planned
00:24:34 <ehird> thus the cliffhanger
00:24:34 <Slereah_> But A POWERFUL SUSPENSE SHROUDS THE ENDING
00:26:03 <Slereah_> That's why people probably shouldn't do cliffhangers in a business where sequels usually end in the trash :o
00:28:23 <Slereah_> "The package also offered an illustrated notebook, The Book of Patterns, supposedly belonging to apprentice weavers in the game world."
00:28:35 <Slereah_> Man, I would have liked to know this when I got the game.
00:29:43 <Slereah_> Apparently the second game was about Nailbender
00:29:53 <Slereah_> I wonder what the interface would have been like.
00:30:06 <Slereah_> But I suppose that when you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
00:31:33 <Slereah_> I should buy the Loom original package.
00:31:38 <ehird> <Slereah_> Apparently the second game was about Nailbender
00:31:38 <ehird> <Slereah_> I wonder what the interface would have been like.
00:31:38 <ehird> <Slereah_> But I suppose that when you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail
00:33:15 <GregorR> I love how you say that as if any channel without a quote database is living in the stone age :P
00:33:23 <ehird> Slereah_: We will.
00:33:31 <ehird> When eso-std.org is up.
00:33:34 <ehird> It will also have a pastebin
01:19:37 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:21:08 -!- Slereah has joined.
01:21:22 <Slereah> I accidentally kick my computer, and everything goes to hell
01:24:38 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:26:34 <Slereah> THE CAKE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY NINJAS!
01:26:46 <Slereah> ARE YOU BAD ENOUGH A DUDE TO RESCUE THE CAKE?
01:27:15 <Slereah> It's so delicious and moist.
01:29:46 -!- evincar has joined.
01:30:23 <evincar> ehird: My Selector interpreter is almost done. I just need to get off my ass and add BECOME and ESCAPE.
01:30:56 <ehird> Slereah: AW COME ON
01:30:59 <ehird> I need delicious cake
01:30:59 <evincar> Heh. You and your silly time zone.
01:31:14 <Slereah> YOU SEE A CAKE IN FRONT OF YOU
01:33:36 <evincar> Heh. The site error page reads "Esolang has a problem."
01:33:47 <evincar> ...which it does on a *normal* day. ^_^
01:34:39 <Slereah> That will teach you to program a website on PSOX!
01:35:22 * Sgeo doesn't appreciate using "PSOX" as a synonym for "buggy"
01:35:25 <evincar> btw, my hello world for Selector was a bit flawed. I forgot to add a PICK ZERO after the first GO BACK, so it output a null in place of an H.
01:36:00 <ehird> * Sgeo doesn't appreciate using "PSOX" as a synonym for "buggy"
01:36:06 <Slereah> Sgeo : Here, have a kitten
01:36:07 <ehird> nobody cares what you appreciate in relation to PSOX
01:36:07 <Slereah> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers/27-esteem3.jpg
01:36:10 <ehird> just thought I'd point that out
01:37:36 <Slereah> Still no update on EsCo speaking of which :o
01:41:48 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:42:49 <Sgeo> I don't see why "PSOX" would be a synonym for "buggy" though
01:42:54 <Sgeo> Is it really buggy?
01:43:29 <ehird> Sgeo: It's vaporware. But mainly we make fun of it because you'd never shut up about it.
01:44:17 <Sgeo> ehird, if people expressed interest, I'd work on it. Also, if 1.0b1 is done, there will be no Safety
01:44:45 -!- Slereah has joined.
01:44:57 <Slereah> It seems that a slight shock makes my computer crash :o
01:45:07 <Slereah> I tried the obvious solution, by hitting it even more
01:52:43 <evincar> Can I get your opinion on a site layout I'm designing?
01:52:47 <evincar> http://www.aquilocomputers.com/computers/delta.shtml
01:52:59 <evincar> You need a modern, fairly standards-compliant browser.
01:53:12 <ehird> evincar: Eurgh. My eyes broke.,
01:53:13 <evincar> It uses transparency a lot, and I'm wondering how readable it's going to be.
01:53:22 <ehird> evincar: And if you think that page is standards compliant think again.
01:53:37 <ehird> <li onmouseover="className='ie_hover';" onmouseout="className='';"> // unobtrusive javascript eh
01:53:41 <evincar> If you're viewing it in IE.
01:53:46 <Slereah> Why is there a pink computer you queermo.
01:54:04 <evincar> I needed a preview image and that was the first case to show up on newegg.
01:54:10 <ehird> evincar: Err, do it via javascript.
01:54:15 <ehird> You can easily find the elemtns and apply the styles.
01:54:19 <ehird> The Behaviour library makes it good.
01:54:25 <ehird> evincar: Adn you have a doctype i nthe middle of the page, wtf.
01:54:36 <evincar> That's the crappy hosting.
01:54:50 <ehird> i don't really like the design.
01:55:18 <evincar> So how isn't it standards-compliant? Other than the fact that my code gets broken by my host?
01:56:27 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:56:51 <ehird> http://bennolan.com/behaviour/
01:57:50 <Sgeo> Is there any interest in PSOX?
01:59:45 <evincar> ehird: please answer my question! If the code is nonstandard in too many places, I want to change it!
02:00:14 <ehird> evincar: not necessarily nonstandard
02:00:18 <ehird> don't inline JS like that
02:00:22 <ehird> it's about the spirit not the letter
02:00:24 <ehird> use behaviour like i linked
02:00:55 <evincar> I'll use something like it. I really want my own codebase on this one, since it's going to be proprietary.
02:02:33 <ehird> you are refusing to use an open source library, because you're writing aproprietary site?
02:02:35 <evincar> ehird: If people stopped using IE, I wouldn't have to waste time and money hacking for it. ^_^
02:02:49 <ehird> evincar: So wait, what are you going to do, disable right clicking?
02:02:51 <evincar> It's because it's a learning experience.
02:03:02 <ehird> It's not a learning experience to rewrite a simple library :|
02:03:34 <evincar> And disabling right-click is the stupidest thing possible.
02:03:43 <Phenax> mm baloney and salsa sandwich
02:03:46 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:03:50 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:04:24 * evincar high-fives Phenax for making an awesome sandwich in the spirit of eso
02:05:22 -!- pikhq has joined.
02:06:47 -!- evincar has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]").
03:05:59 <Slereah> "Copies input to output until ASCII 26 (EOF)" <- why 26?
03:54:26 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
04:03:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
04:20:23 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit.
04:20:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:20:54 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
05:20:52 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:31:47 -!- kalyaka has joined.
06:32:37 -!- kalyaka has left (?).
06:44:17 -!- Judofyr has joined.
06:53:07 -!- Judofyr_ has joined.
06:53:07 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:19:03 -!- olsner has joined.
07:34:37 -!- Iskr has joined.
07:44:40 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
07:50:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:16:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, should & instruction handle negative numbers?
08:16:48 <AnMaster> both ccbi and cfunge seems to strip the -
08:18:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also is this correct for mycouser in ccbi:
08:19:00 <AnMaster> UNDEF: STRN fingerprint not loaded, won't check I.
08:19:32 <AnMaster> I thought CCBI implemented STRN?
08:26:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:28:31 <AnMaster> Phenax, there still? I made my counter a bit nicer: http://rafb.net/p/ijksY522.html
08:40:10 <fizzie> Arr, I've lost the more optimized forms of that recursive fibonacci that were on mooz's befunge page which is now gone; I only have the intermediate form http://rafb.net/p/Ra5Nj196.html
09:53:38 <Deewiant> AnMaster: & is quite precisely specified, negatives don't work.
09:54:02 <Deewiant> as regards STRN, evidently the mycology version that's out has an 'r' left there instead of '('. :-P
09:57:45 <fizzie> That & specification sounds curious: it reads "up until (but not including) the point -- where the next digit would cause a cell overflow"; but in one particular case that depends on the character. For signed 32-bit, after reading "214748364" you should still read the next digit if it's 0-7, but not if it's 8 or 9.
09:59:04 <fizzie> I wonder how many implement it like that.
09:59:26 <fizzie> I guess it needs a one-character lookahead for the "stopped being digits" thing anyway.
10:00:05 <Deewiant> although there's probably a specific input where CCBI gets confused and returns the wrong thing.
10:04:43 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:04:53 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
10:05:22 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
10:24:29 <AnMaster> If the correct value is outside the range of representable values, {LONG_MIN}, {LONG_MAX}, {LLONG_MIN}, or {LLONG_MAX} shall be returned (according to the
10:24:29 <AnMaster> sign of the value), and errno set to [ERANGE].
10:25:00 <AnMaster> from POSIX specs for strtol/strtoll
10:42:13 <fizzie> And what good does strtol do, if you want to stop reading before an overflow would occurr, and not clamp the value.
10:42:28 <AnMaster> guess I will have to change it
10:42:53 <AnMaster> so I can just use a copy with some changes I hope
10:43:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Unisex.").
10:43:25 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
10:43:25 -!- Slereah has joined.
11:04:24 <AnMaster> # define LLONG_MAX 9223372036854775807LL
11:04:25 <AnMaster> Please input a number: 777777777777777777777777777777777777777
11:04:25 <AnMaster> UNDEF: got 3014526681976609905 which is hopefully correct.
11:05:09 <AnMaster> it works fine for numbers that doesn't overflow
11:07:26 <AnMaster> 7777777777777777777 * 10 + 7 = 3990801482939571313 !?
11:07:46 <AnMaster> stepping through gdb seems to show it is
11:11:16 <fizzie> Well, I don't think that's very strange. 77777777777777777777 modulo 2^64 is 3990801482939571313.
11:11:49 <AnMaster> fizzie, it overflows in other words
11:11:58 <AnMaster> however, how do I detect that happened?
11:12:49 <AnMaster> or are there cases where that won't work?
11:14:08 <AnMaster> fizzie, oh but I did use signed type, int64_t, not uint64_t
11:16:47 <fizzie> Signedness doesn't really matter that much. Or, well, it does matter in that signed integer overflow is undefined behaviour, but most places use two's-complement representation for signed numbers and do the sensible thing.
11:17:19 <AnMaster> well, how would you handle this reading then
11:17:55 <AnMaster> fizzie, the "overflow to avoid" would be either 32-bit signed or 64-bit signed, depending on compile time options
11:21:39 <fizzie> Well, if you want to catch the overflow before it happens, you need two tests; if x > FOO_MAX/10, then already the x*10 would overflow, and if that x*10 > FOO_MAX-a, then x*10+a would overflow.
11:23:35 <AnMaster> fizzie, is the result of signed overflow undefined or implementation defined
11:23:53 <fizzie> Undefined is my guess, but I didn't check the standard.
11:25:40 <AnMaster> it doesn't seem to be mentioned with the word "overflow" at least
11:26:05 <AnMaster> only thing about overflow is for floating point
11:27:14 <AnMaster> search doesn't find ligatures in the pdf
11:27:28 <AnMaster> "overflow" that isn't fl but a ligature
11:29:53 <fizzie> Well, 3.4.3 undefined behavior "An example of undefined behavior is the behavior on integer overflow."
11:30:29 <AnMaster> fizzie, and that was the ligature
11:30:40 <AnMaster> so didn't find it with a search at first
11:30:45 <fizzie> Xpdf really should allow searching with regexps, 'over.low' would've helped.
11:35:29 <AnMaster> poppler or whatever it is called
11:35:56 <AnMaster> fizzie, even odder is that the search dialog contains a regex checkbox, but it is greyed out
11:36:10 <AnMaster> it is the standard KDE search dialog so...
12:01:41 <Slereah> Any of you knows how to use rost?
13:26:19 -!- Corun has joined.
13:35:31 <Slereah> Like the usenet of freenet.
13:43:41 -!- Corun has quit (Connection timed out).
13:45:39 <Slereah> Frost is already isnstalled
13:45:45 <Slereah> Would you happen to know how to download the archives of a group?
13:45:48 <AnMaster> both are coded in java iirc, so you'll need a JRE
13:45:58 <Slereah> I don't have anything more recent than the instalation.
13:46:02 <AnMaster> Slereah, I think they are announced on some list
13:46:15 <AnMaster> there is no list of all the groups existing
13:46:25 <AnMaster> rather, you got to know the name
13:46:35 <Slereah> What I want is, the messages from before I got thar.
13:46:43 <AnMaster> there is some list where ppl announce groups
13:46:52 <AnMaster> Slereah, huh? that is not possible really
13:47:05 <Slereah> I remember doing that on some newsgroup :o
13:47:11 <AnMaster> there is no archive of old messages
13:47:14 <Slereah> Although it was not me, but a guy who helped me.
13:47:30 <Slereah> I got like messages years old that way
13:47:47 <AnMaster> nor is there by default for usenet
13:48:11 <AnMaster> Slereah, also by default frost will expire old messages iirc
13:48:13 <Slereah> Are newsgroups just utterly terrible?
13:48:30 <Slereah> You know, as a value judgement.
13:48:43 <AnMaster> Slereah, look, if no one is doing public logging of an irc channel, there won't be any history
13:48:52 <AnMaster> it's the same for usenet afaik
13:48:58 <AnMaster> and definitly the same for freenet
13:49:04 <AnMaster> where logging would be considered BAD as well
13:49:31 <Slereah> It is quite bad when there's the concept of threads involved.
13:49:45 <Slereah> Even a few days of old messages would be nice!
13:50:01 <Slereah> Not to post repetitive threads that you can't see.
14:25:07 <AnMaster> Slereah, anonymity and security are considered more important I think
14:27:00 <Slereah> Making an archive won't make them less anonymous :o
14:27:21 <Slereah> And since anyone can join, not that less secure.
15:16:52 -!- Judofyr_ has changed nick to Judofyr.
15:26:56 -!- chammiya has joined.
15:27:10 -!- chammiya has quit (Client Quit).
15:27:55 -!- jix has joined.
16:08:07 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:08:38 -!- Judofyr has joined.
16:11:28 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:11:44 -!- oklopol has joined.
16:11:54 -!- Judofyr has joined.
16:52:17 -!- ehird has joined.
16:58:01 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:14:57 -!- ehird has joined.
17:16:04 <Phenax> http://pastebin.ca/1005115 - How come this doesn't work in Befunge? (Noob)
17:16:18 <Phenax> Should endlessly loop through numbers and output 1 if even 0 if odd
17:27:29 <oklopol> wait a bit, i need to look up what the opers are
17:28:04 <Phenax> http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html
17:28:17 <Phenax> http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html#Quickref
17:29:20 <oklopol> well, naturally that will crash after 9, you're aware of that?
17:29:50 <Phenax> well, i need to do 010p somewhere before that
17:29:56 <Phenax> but why isn't it working up to 9
17:31:17 <Phenax> Should endlessly loop through numbers and output 1 if even 0 if odd
17:31:44 <Phenax> i think it gets stuck in an infinite loop somewhere
17:32:43 <Phenax> I've got to go now.. i'll play around with it later
17:32:53 <oklopol> i'll try and locate the problem
17:32:57 <fizzie> Single-stepping with the javascript befunge interpreter made it look like it'd work up to 9.
17:33:19 <fizzie> But if you're not printing a newline, your interpreter might not show the output.
17:36:39 <fizzie> After '9' it first turns to a ":" which shouldn't cause too much trouble, then a ";" which in funge98 should probably be a no-op since it'll just wrap-around, and after that it'll become a "<", at which points there'll be "><" in the top left corner and it'll get stuck there.
17:36:55 <fizzie> I get an output of "1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1" before that.
17:37:35 <ehird> fizzie - the third befunge expert in this channel!
17:40:19 <fizzie> Well, I really wouldn't use the word "expert"; all I've done in Befunge (apart from some even sillier tests) are that recursive fibonacci and a turing machine interpreter, syntax-highlighted; and I even lost that last one.
17:41:52 <ehird> fizzie: But you can read and write it ;)
17:43:25 <fizzie> There's not that many instructions in it, after all.
17:43:58 -!- Corun has joined.
17:56:34 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
18:03:13 <Deewiant> ehird: and he's partially implemented a Befunge-98 interpreter. :-P
18:03:25 <ehird> Deewiant: WHO HASN'T
18:04:35 <fizzie> I also has a habit of doing a befunge-93 interpreter (except with "a-f work as hexadacimal digits, and ' like in funge-98" features) whenever learning a new language.
18:08:42 <Phenax> Yeah.. My problem I fixed
18:08:52 <Phenax> I just figured out ccbi debugger well :)
18:09:00 <Phenax> http://pastebin.ca/1005156 -> working copy
18:09:14 <Phenax> change 'a' to '52*' on befunge 93 obv
18:12:05 <AnMaster> cfunge 0.2.1 will be released in a few hours
18:14:18 <AnMaster> how on earth do you syntax highlight befunge?
18:14:29 <ehird> was syntax hgihglihted
18:14:30 <AnMaster> after all, stuff can mean different things depending on direction
18:14:35 <ehird> of course you can syntax highlight befunge
18:14:40 <ehird> it just needs to be clever
18:15:00 <ehird> AnMaster: just make things *shade*
18:15:15 <AnMaster> + I got no clue how to handle stuff like, something being a string one way, and a code path the other
18:15:16 <fizzie> No, no. The code was syntax-highlighted.
18:15:25 <fizzie> I think I used about a dozen different colors for it.
18:15:58 <ehird> AnMaster: you shade it so that "a and c" are string colour
18:16:01 <ehird> v and + are their colour
18:16:06 <ehird> and b is a blend of its instruction colour
18:16:12 <AnMaster> so you can have a string spread out
18:16:17 <ehird> AnMaster: read what i said
18:16:24 <fizzie> I just made an HTML table, with different background colors for different areas. I think there were three sets of colors.
18:16:28 <AnMaster> by first setting delta to be non-cardinal
18:16:59 <fizzie> And then a documentation block. "This ugly-red part frozzes the buzznigator. The ugly-green part is where the magic happens. This even uglier color... I don't know what it does."
18:17:13 <AnMaster> ehird, true, but you still can't handle non-cardinal code paths, in fact I think being able to perfectly syntax highlight any possible befunge would require tracing the program
18:17:16 <ehird> fizzie: Literate colorforth!
18:17:29 <ehird> AnMaster: that could work ... most of the time
18:17:34 <AnMaster> ehird, say if the program used p to put an x in the code, then executed that x
18:17:38 <ehird> if you don't use filesystem and similar fingerprints
18:17:55 <AnMaster> how the heck would the syntax highlighter know where the string was
18:18:18 <AnMaster> ehird, err, x sets delta, that means, you can do stuff like executed every third instruction diagonally
18:18:19 <ehird> AnMaster: tracing the program
18:18:25 <AnMaster> string handling that way would suck
18:18:43 <AnMaster> ehird, right, as if you want that on a buggy program with o instructon
18:18:58 <AnMaster> and then there is ?, so tracing *may* lead to different results
18:19:00 <ehird> AnMaster: i'm joking. Can you please make yourself familiar with the concept?
18:19:12 <AnMaster> ehird, oh, you seemed like serious
18:19:30 <ehird> AnMaster: I was, in an evil-maniac-grin-with-bloodshot-gawping-eyes kind of way
18:19:47 <fizzie> I think you might get relatively interesting-looking syntax highlighting with purely static program analysis, although of course all Real Befunge Programs are self-modifying-to-a-high-degree. Still, it'd be... colorful.
18:36:57 <sauxdado> syntax highlighting befunge has been done
18:37:47 <sauxdado> (using tracing and re-tracing when the program gets modified, i'm pretty sure)
18:46:23 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:54:14 -!- Corun has joined.
18:58:32 <AnMaster> sauxdado, yeah, that would be the only way for non-simple cases
18:58:57 <AnMaster> trace highlight that way has been done for befunge93 I'm pretty sure
18:59:42 <sauxdado> oh, you want some other befunge?
18:59:54 <sauxdado> i guess it gets trickier with 98 features
19:01:13 <AnMaster> or rather, that is what I would care about
19:01:24 <AnMaster> I'm not that interested in highlighting really
19:01:54 * AnMaster is about to release cfunge soon, waiting for stuff to build and upload it
19:10:29 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
19:10:39 -!- jix has joined.
19:20:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, https://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=221310&release_id=596614
19:21:37 <ehird> i'm writing a funge-98 interpreter
19:22:08 <ehird> AnMaster: i can no longer face the torment
19:22:18 <ehird> and trds NEEDS IMPLEMENTING DAMNIT
19:23:13 <ehird> AnMaster: ccbi is not fruit
19:24:19 <oerjan> common citrus-based implementation?
19:25:01 <ehird> AnMaster: ccbi is NOT fruit
19:26:00 <ehird> My interp will be called cegnuf
19:26:04 * ehird glances angrily at AnMaster
19:28:35 <ehird> Deewiant: any suggestions on how to do N-funge?
19:28:42 <ehird> how on earth will I do the hashtable
19:29:23 <Deewiant> cell[cellidx][cellidx][size_t]
19:29:38 <ehird> AnMaster: CCBI IS NOT FRUIT DAMNIT
19:29:40 <AnMaster> ehird, just use a hash with, say, void* and size_t len
19:30:20 <AnMaster> ehird, it is easy to do it for any finite defined n at compile time
19:30:24 <ehird> by which point i'll have sex with c's _t notation
19:30:36 <ehird> I don't know how having sex with the notation makes me do that though
19:30:43 <ehird> AnMaster: at run-time
19:30:50 <AnMaster> would be easy to change cfunge to be able to do either 1 or 3 dimensions at *compile* time
19:30:56 <AnMaster> but I'd hate to do it at runtime...
19:32:57 <ehird> AnMaster: hm, should I support up to size_t's max in dimensions ;)
19:33:04 <ehird> it'll slow things down a lot if I do that
19:33:14 <ehird> so I'm considering just using a 'char'
19:33:17 <ehird> I mean, 255d is a lot
19:34:07 <Deewiant> or how are you planning on implementing this
19:34:15 <AnMaster> ehird, point is you need to select it at start of program
19:34:29 <ehird> AnMaster: ... bignum-dimensions?
19:34:36 <ehird> Deewiant: the hash function, etc
19:34:42 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah and bignum data type!
19:34:53 <AnMaster> ehird, there are general purpose hashing functions
19:35:22 <ehird> that's not the point AnMaster
19:35:32 <ehird> AnMaster: you don't get it
19:36:30 <Deewiant> ehird: I'm not sure you'd need to make a hash table of the dimensions, why not just an ordinary table
19:36:48 <ehird> fungespace is a hash table
19:37:07 <Deewiant> so essentially you have N nested hash tables
19:37:15 <Deewiant> where N is your dimensionality
19:37:23 <Deewiant> which has coordinates like AnMaster's
19:37:35 <Deewiant> in either case, where are you hashing N?
19:37:53 <Deewiant> or needing values which index to [1..N] anyway
19:38:46 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:39:42 <ehird> Deewiant: you need to hash N elements
19:40:27 <Deewiant> so... where does it matter whether the type of N is ubyte or size_t, it should make no difference until N > 255
19:40:53 <Deewiant> in that if N == 255+1 for ubyte, it's 0, wheras for size_t it's 256. ;-)
19:41:24 <ehird> Deewiant: OK, not speed, I meant in space
19:41:38 <Deewiant> I'd say the difference is negligible still
19:42:00 <Deewiant> (x+1) times y bytes or x times y bytes + 1
19:43:59 <ehird> Deewiant: can you even put a size_t in an a[b] in C?
19:45:05 -!- Corun has joined.
19:47:42 <Deewiant> I have no idea what you're trying to ask :-P
19:48:35 <Deewiant> size_t is a type, you can use it the way you can use any integer type in C.
19:55:48 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:59:44 <AnMaster> as for type used to index array, it would be size_t or ptrdiff_t in fact
20:00:00 <AnMaster> actually any integer type would work I thin
20:00:10 <AnMaster> negative integer may work even
20:01:19 <AnMaster> just not sure if it is allowed syntax to have negative i
20:02:03 <Deewiant> if you have int x[5] = {0,1,2,3,4}; int *p = x+2; then p[-1] == 1
20:02:32 <Deewiant> I'm sure the compiler might warn you though since there's no reason why you'd want to do something like that :-P
20:05:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, however x[-1] is undefined I assume?
20:05:48 <Deewiant> undefined or just plain illegal
20:05:58 <Deewiant> you're accessing memory you haven't allocated
20:06:17 <AnMaster> depending on if there is anything in front
20:06:41 <Deewiant> then it's undefined, I don't know
20:06:44 <Deewiant> it's not something you want to do anyway
20:06:54 <Deewiant> since you can't know whether there is anything in front
20:08:39 <ehird> x[-1] is just like x[45345]
20:09:11 <Deewiant> yep, and I don't know the definedness :-)
20:09:31 <Deewiant> 'not', or 'defined' && == illegal
20:09:52 <oerjan> iirc even x-1 (as a pointer) is undefined if x is an array
20:11:03 <ehird> oerjan: demons flying out of your NOSE
20:18:19 * oerjan notes something did try to fly _into_ his nose earlier today. gah!
20:22:20 <ehird> oerjan: What, demons?
20:23:52 <oerjan> i cannot say as i failed to get a good glimpse of it
20:25:29 <oerjan> for all i know they may be inside, eating my brain at this very moment
20:25:58 <oklopol> ehird: fizzie: But you can read and write it ;) <<< well, i did just read the example too, that's not really a task
20:26:34 <ehird> oklopol: somehow my client only highlights up to <<<
20:26:37 <ehird> oklopol: test <<< a
20:33:50 -!- Tritonio has joined.
20:34:44 <oklopol> making n dimensions is trivial!
20:35:09 <oklopol> ...what is that weird language you're speaking there, some new syntax for python?
20:37:00 <Sgeo> ehird, you want a <<< test ehird like <<< this?
20:38:34 <oklopol> i'm thinking it is trying to highlight pasted irc messages separately from the actual message so if <nick> says ehird then the end is highlight-colored!
20:39:18 <ehird> <oklopol> ehird: fizzie: But you can read and write it ;) <<< well, i did just read the example too, that's not really a task
20:39:21 <ehird> the notify highlight ends at <<<
20:45:42 <oklopol> ehird: ;) <<< this is a smiley
20:45:54 <oklopol> ehird: ;) is a smiley, i mean
20:46:24 <oerjan> ;)<<< this is a smiley for ants
20:49:06 <Sgeo> ehird <<< ehird <<< test2 <<< test3 which part did it highlight to?
20:49:55 <oklopol> this is serious business, we just have to know what the logic is
20:50:03 <oklopol> let's all make tests all night long
20:50:59 * Sgeo throws a PSOX in there j/k
20:52:12 <ehird> oklopol: just paste your previous line
20:52:15 <ehird> ehird: fizzie: But you can read and write it ;) <<< well, i did just read the example too, that's not really a task
20:53:21 <Sgeo> ehird: fizzie: But you can read and write it ;) <<< well, i did just read the example too, that's not really a task
20:59:10 -!- Slereah has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:59:10 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:59:10 -!- cmeme has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:59:50 -!- Slereah has joined.
20:59:50 -!- cmeme has joined.
20:59:50 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
21:09:44 <ehird> that would be silly
21:09:49 <ehird> the rfc is too big for that
21:09:54 <ehird> but ... try and make it short
21:10:00 <ehird> just .. still indent it and have newlines ;)
21:11:28 <oklopol> your mother is silly, i wanna golf it
21:12:29 <ehird> oklopol: have you ever read the rfc
21:12:38 <ehird> you need to implement easily 100 cmds or so
21:13:05 <oklopol> i think i've read it, but i definately know how long it is
21:13:33 <oklopol> how does that have anything to do with being fun to golf?
21:14:08 <ehird> oklopol: it'll be very hard to write like that
21:15:00 <oklopol> Sgeo: the words are there.
21:16:43 -!- andreou has joined.
21:18:32 <andreou> well i suppose you could say it's a context-free grammar
21:18:36 <andreou> http://www.contextfreeart.org/
21:22:13 <ehird> oklopol: how's the ircd going
21:24:36 <oklopol> oh i'm not gonna start *now*, i'm rewriting my todo list in rot-13
21:25:20 <oerjan> and then you have to wash your hair?
21:25:42 <oklopol> also i have three languages in the making atm, so i'm a bit exfoculated
21:26:09 <oklopol> oerjan: as a matter of fact i've reduced showering into once/twice a week, so not for a while
21:26:16 <ehird> oklopol: come on, i'll give you money
21:26:18 * oerjan congratulates oklopol with inventing a word that google cannot find
21:26:37 <oklopol> exfoculate? how can something that beautiful not exist
21:28:00 <oerjan> foculate can be googled, but only 13 hits, so may be misspelled
21:29:11 <oklopol> "Formulated to foculate (group together in a mass) dirt particles from water..."
21:29:24 <oerjan> focculate gives a bit more
21:29:25 <ehird> oerjan: They probably have their asses under the knunder.
21:29:33 <ehird> (That's only funny 'cause I internet-know the guy who came up with that word.)
21:32:42 <oerjan> ah, those are misspellings of "flocculate"
21:33:50 <ehird> oklopol: iz ircd dun
21:35:55 <oklopol> i'm leaving soon, actually
21:45:15 -!- Iskr has quit ("Leaving").
21:48:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
22:03:30 -!- oklopol has quit ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )").
22:13:39 <AnMaster> I think he will be back tomorrow at most
22:14:06 <sauxdado> i suppose we could ban him for 30 years
22:30:12 -!- ais523 has joined.
22:40:54 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523|busy.
22:57:05 <sauxdado> but that's only half the process
22:57:16 <sauxdado> we also need to ensure that he comes back afterwards
22:57:43 <ehird> sauxdado: stalk him
22:58:53 <sauxdado> also we'd have to ensure that freenode still exists in 30 years
23:00:03 <ehird> sauxdado: nah we can define an official convention for moving it around
23:00:07 <ehird> then itd be formal
23:00:12 <ehird> and tyhe same place
23:00:51 <sauxdado> we might as well just define that for 30 years #esoteric exists in outer space, and starting in 30 years, it exists right where oklopol is
23:01:37 <sauxdado> if oklopol comes into this channel, he's not actually in #esoteric.
23:01:41 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:01:42 <ehird> sauxdado: but what if he dies
23:01:57 <ehird> or becomes an astronaut
23:02:33 <sauxdado> and i guess instead of "outer space", just define "somewhere where oklopol isn't"
23:03:04 <ehird> sauxdado: but what if there is no afterlife and his body decays?
23:04:56 -!- digital_me has joined.
23:05:20 <sauxdado> yes, that's a problem. We must keep him alive for 30 yeras
23:05:47 <sauxdado> not just alive, but we must keep him _oklopol_
23:05:53 <sauxdado> he's not allowed to change into something else
23:06:05 <sauxdado> just to be on the safe side, we can't let him for example use dentures
23:06:27 <sauxdado> of course, in 7 years all the molecules in your body get replaced...
23:06:42 <ehird> sauxdado: that's a problem...
23:06:46 <sauxdado> the question of identity is really tricky
23:07:39 <ehird> sauxdado: we need a philosopher and a biologist, stat
23:08:09 <sauxdado> alternatively, we could redefine oklopol to mean something more convenient
23:08:23 <sauxdado> for example, define oklopol to be "that which will come to #esoteric in 30 years"
23:08:38 <ehird> sauxdado: hahahahahahahah
23:08:56 <ehird> but what if nothing comes
23:09:11 <ehird> does the *absense* of something come?
23:09:34 <sauxdado> in that case, oklopol would be the absence of non-oklopol.
23:10:24 <sauxdado> we need to tell oklopol that he's been redefined
23:10:54 <ehird> sauxdado: but he wont be back for 30ys
23:11:15 <sauxdado> i mean, we need to tell that which used to be oklopol.
23:18:20 -!- comex has quit (Connection timed out).
23:18:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:18:44 -!- comex has joined.
23:26:21 -!- sauxdado has changed nick to saudado.
23:37:31 -!- Tritonio has joined.
23:45:10 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
23:48:14 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
23:51:53 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:52:24 -!- Judofyr has joined.
23:54:13 -!- digital_me has quit ("leaving").
23:54:19 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to iGeo.
23:54:32 -!- iGeo has changed nick to iSgeo.
23:55:22 -!- iSgeo has changed nick to Sgeo.