00:00:20 <RodgerTheGreat> although I don't think you could order it through cafepress
00:00:23 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1210978678-nmw.png
00:01:15 <ehird> RodgerTheGreat: A shirt about menswear?
00:01:18 <ehird> That'd be awesomely meta.
00:01:27 <ehird> RodgerTheGreat: I am going to put that exact picture on a shirt.
00:01:40 <RodgerTheGreat> I was thinking more the shirt depicted in the image, but if you want a T-shirt, go for it dude
00:01:54 <RodgerTheGreat> I could take some time to redraw the saying so it's easier to read
00:02:00 <pikhq> I want something like that on a tie.
00:02:07 <ehird> I want an infinitely recursing tshirt.
00:02:09 <pikhq> To go with the shirt, of course.
00:02:12 <ehird> A tshirt of a tshirt of a ..
00:30:52 <GregorR> ehird: I think the better metashirt would be if the shirt in the shirt was the shirt *brain explodes*
00:31:22 <ehird> GregorR: that wsa what i meant
00:32:04 <GregorR> RodgerTheGreat: OK only-person-here-who-can-draw, draw our recursowear! :P
00:33:02 <RodgerTheGreat> I dunno, I don't think drawing it would make it much more entertaining
00:33:03 <GregorR> (But it's only amusing metawear if it's actually /advertising/ itself :P )
00:38:00 <ehird> xv,mn.nm,/\zvnafs 'qw r ASXDAW A
00:38:25 <ehird> GregorR: model a thinkgeek page
00:38:37 <ehird> 'This hilarious shirt models a store page for itself! $9.99'
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00:50:55 <ehird> <Sgeo> e.g. comex's point score as of this point in my determination is 0 + 42 + (10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi - g_(10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi))%10
00:50:59 <ehird> sgeo is a god among men
00:51:13 <Sgeo> What if I made a mistake?
00:51:18 <ehird> Sgeo: i have no idea
00:51:21 <ehird> you're still a god
00:52:08 <Sgeo> It's called copy+paste
00:54:51 <ehird> <Sgeo> (10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi - g_(10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi) - (10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi - g_(10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi))%10 - (10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871
00:54:51 <ehird> <Sgeo> 041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi - g_(10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi) - (10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi - g_(10+1+4+5 + 1,000,000 + xkcd +1 - 9543331207720871041898 - 1000000000000000000th-digit-of-pi))%10)%100)%1000
00:55:52 <Sgeo> Mine's going to include all that, you know
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01:35:21 <olsner> not that I had anything to say to ehird, but still, I missed him by about as much time it took for me between starting xchat and actually looking
01:35:26 <oerjan> you need to aim better
01:35:36 <Sgeo> Wee, rule 38 repealed
01:35:52 <olsner> oerjan: I shall pour fermented milk over you
01:35:58 * Sgeo hopes he missed no rule changes
01:37:04 <olsner> I did not say over "your umbrella", I said over *you* :P
01:37:36 * oerjan keeps his umbrella between him and olsner
01:38:00 * olsner devours oerjan's umbrella
01:38:24 * olsner 'll eat almost anything
01:39:08 <olsner> bah! not much more trouble than eating a fish; remove vertebrae before eating
01:41:43 <oerjan> Kefir mjlk? Kefir ikkje kaffi? </mock nynorsk>
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01:42:37 <olsner> jeg trenger icke kefir, jeg trenger svensk filmjlk. </mock norsk>
01:43:35 <olsner> not that that actually corresponds to what I mean, since I have a half litre of filmjlk left anyway
01:44:01 <olsner> but I kind of like the norwegian word "trenger"
01:44:26 <olsner> btw s verkar svenskar vara smst p att frst andra sorters skandinaviska
01:45:07 <olsner> har en norrman p jobbet, han mste nstan prata engelska fr att en jvel ska frst hans norska, men nr vi pratar svenska fattar han allt
01:48:25 <olsner> go ahead and cut this monologue off at any point
01:48:44 * oerjan thought it was finished already
01:49:00 <olsner> well, it was, but I was waiting for some kind of response
01:49:52 <oerjan> of course, filmjlk and surstrmming are illegal outside sweden anyhow, by treaties against biological weapons
01:51:17 <olsner> well, when we reinstate the Union, it will be legal in norway as well :P
01:51:37 <oerjan> sheesh, why do you think we separated in the first place?
01:52:03 <olsner> why of course, to give norway the illusion of independence :P
01:53:05 <oerjan> no, it was to get away from the smell
01:55:23 <olsner> maybe it was... I live on the east of sweden though; norway doesn't smell as much over here
01:57:23 <oklofok> just came home to eat some noodles
01:57:33 <olsner> yeah, my bushes usually don't make sense either
01:57:35 <oklofok> have to get back afterwards
01:58:06 <olsner> back to ... the sauna? (I mean, oklo-whatever = finn, right?)
01:58:21 <oklofok> it's quite weird developing 4 languages simultaneouly, ideas are colliding so much i can barely keep my self in balance
01:58:33 <oerjan> ah that's where the bushes come from
01:58:37 <oklofok> i'm a night watchman or whatever it's called atm
01:59:08 <olsner> "jour"? if that makes sense to you
01:59:27 <oklofok> i realized almost every non deterministic computational model makes a good game with the same rules
01:59:38 <oklofok> at least the X rewriting ones
01:59:49 <oklofok> graph, tree and string rewriting make a good game, that is
01:59:56 <olsner> night watchman = on standby for fixing bugs? watching a garage? fixing servers when they break down?
02:00:14 <oklofok> one player at a time makes up a new rewriting rule, the next player then applies rules until none apply
02:00:33 <oklofok> the more moves, the more points, infinite loop = loss
02:00:49 <oklofok> easy to make up for the fact you can't always know whether it is an infloop
02:01:08 <oklofok> some additional rules for stuff like that, but basically it's a great game just like that
02:01:15 <oklofok> also, another game i invented a few hours ago
02:01:22 <oklofok> you take a board, 2d, prime*prime
02:01:38 <oklofok> each turn you take two pieces, and rotate one 90 degrees aroudn the other
02:01:47 <oklofok> if there's a piece there, you eat it, and get it in your pile
02:01:56 <oklofok> containing an infinite amount of pieces
02:02:14 <oklofok> you take one piece from the bank, turn the *other* way, 90 degrees, and put a piece there
02:02:25 <oklofok> unless there's already a piece, in which case you take that to your pile
02:02:31 <oklofok> if you eat something, you get a new turn
02:02:43 <oklofok> a bit confusing an explanation, but it's great in every variation
02:02:52 <oklofok> i'm a fucking genius, was my point
02:03:05 <oklofok> you should hear my ideas about ef for my journey back here...
02:03:19 <oklofok> continue whatever you were doing, i'll go ->
02:04:10 <olsner> oklofok wins at monologues
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02:04:37 <oklofok> i also win at the rewriting games
02:04:55 <olsner> failing at stepmania? it's just a matter of exercise!
02:05:05 <oklofok> which is quite weird considering i'm a pianist, and a guitarrist
02:05:22 <olsner> reduce life, increase stepmania => win at stepmania
02:05:41 <olsner> (also, leg coordination is quite different from hand/arm coordination)
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02:07:15 <oklofok> heh, called a guy who's at the job with me, was quite lucky it was the correct number :P
02:07:31 <oklofok> i just do stepmania on keyboard
02:15:10 <oklofok> god these noodles are hot.
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02:19:22 <oklofok> nowai, these kefenders are mine and mine only
02:25:35 <oklofok> but seriously, the hotness is kinda hurting me
02:27:53 <oklofok> umm, why would i ask them out when i'm eating them?
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03:15:01 <Sgeo> http://pastebin.ca/1020713
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04:26:38 <augur> GregorR -- gregor richardson?
04:28:04 <augur> ok. nevermind then.
04:28:15 <augur> i know a gregor richardson and i was gonna be all like
04:31:13 <augur> i hear you like the esolangs
04:32:22 <augur> now i hear you have no humor detector :P
04:32:45 <augur> do you ever try to figure out esolangs from their behavior?
04:32:57 <Slereah_> Hell, there's been people thinking this was a magic chan.
04:33:28 <augur> like.. given some source code and program output, or something, try to figure out what each piece does?
04:33:41 <augur> sort of reverse engineering the language?
04:34:39 <augur> ok so i presume that yes, esolangers like to go backwards as well, yes?
04:35:15 <Slereah_> It's the only one I can think of.
04:39:05 <augur> ok so slereah told me you peoples like the pattern matching
04:42:46 <Slereah_> Well, they know more than me on the topic.
04:46:27 <augur> does anyone know how a pattern distinguishes variables from names? e.g. a haskell pattern like fac n = ..., the n is a variable, but fac isn't, and so "5 6" isnt matched to fac=5, n=6
04:46:35 <augur> does anyone know how such things are distinguished, if at all?
04:48:41 <Sgeo> Ask in #haskell ?
04:48:54 <augur> well, im not asking specifically regarding haskell, but in a general sense
04:49:05 <augur> i just use haskell as an example
04:50:07 <Sgeo> well, 5 isn't fac
04:50:40 <Sgeo> fac 5 would match, well, in Haskell only if fac is a constructor, which it isn't
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06:06:15 <oklofok> poor augur left 7 minutes before a perfect explanation
06:06:34 <oklofok> PERHAPS I SHALL TELL THE REST OF YOU ABOUT THE WONDER THAT IS OKENITY
06:06:43 <oklofok> perhaps i shall do a sleep.
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06:09:49 <augur> what'd i mis what'd i miss
06:11:42 <augur> well i discovered that in haskell the distinction between bindable and unbindable symbols is such that all non-first symbols in a pattern are bindable.
06:12:10 <oklofok> usually, when you have something like "fac n" as a pattern, the trick is parsing it as if it was normal code, haskell is applicative so we get (call (operator fac) (operand n))
06:12:36 <oklofok> yeah, the reason is, in some level, that the first one is kinda the operator.
06:13:14 <oklofok> the first one isn't always the one that's non-bindable
06:13:24 <oklofok> because the operator can be something other than the first one
06:13:50 <oklofok> "a `opr` b" is the haskell way to do infix when you have an alphabetic operator
06:14:11 <oklofok> so you can do "n `func` m = ..."
06:14:20 <oklofok> and func is the operator, so it's not binded
06:14:30 <oklofok> but is as if it was an atom there
06:14:43 <augur> but again theres a distinction between bindable and non-bindable
06:14:51 <augur> instead of position here its `..`
06:15:43 <oklofok> the idea is, we get a (operator operand operand ...) AST, and the operator is not binded
06:16:01 <oklofok> why the operator is binded is just convenience.
06:16:29 <oklofok> you can think of all this as rewrite rules, you pattern match your program on the functions
06:16:47 <oklofok> functions consist of a left-side, which is a pattern, and a right side, which is the substitution
06:17:18 <oklofok> but, i guess you already understood it, it's just hard to stop explaining.
06:17:24 <augur> i just wasnt sure if there were ways that were used to distinguish between bindable and unbindable symbols, or whatnot
06:17:42 <oklofok> because i'm really bad at it, and constantly try to make at least *some* sense :)
06:18:26 <oklofok> well everything can be done in so many different ways
06:19:09 <oklofok> some languages have pattern matching as a first-class citizen, and you *don't* have that kind of named functions at all
06:19:25 <oklofok> for instance oklotalk, which i have to mention to anyone who seems new here.
06:19:49 <oklofok> and inside the lambda, you can do explicit pattern matching
06:20:30 <oklofok> this is a function, that explicitly matches whatever it gets as args on [A B]
06:20:50 <oklofok> if it succeeds, the elements are summed and returned
06:20:57 <oklofok> if it fails, the next case is tried
06:21:11 <oklofok> N is binded to whatever the argument is, one is added, and it is returned
06:21:31 <oklofok> Func = {[A B] -> A+B; N -> N+1};
06:21:51 <oklofok> as you can see there's nothing like haskell's not-binding-function-names rule
06:22:41 <augur> so how would you apply this??
06:22:51 <oklofok> well, tbh this is a bit different, because haskell kinda matches on stuff on the runtime "tree" representing program state, and this one just does it to the arg.
06:23:08 <oklofok> i'm using very iffy concepts, so don't feel bad if that makes no sense :D
06:23:30 <augur> that seems rather like haskell, to be honestly
06:23:31 <oklofok> "func" makes it a "funcoken", meaning it's an operator
06:24:13 <oklofok> well, that will not work in haskell because of types, it's not haskell syntax, and it's only syntactically similar
06:24:24 <oklofok> but yes, pattern matching on lists is usually similar in languages
06:24:35 <augur> i see what you mean
06:24:51 <augur> if patterns are first class items
06:24:56 <augur> how do you define just patterns?
06:25:01 <augur> like, the pattern N
06:25:04 <augur> rather than referring to N?
06:25:22 <oklofok> there's a specific list type
06:25:27 <oklofok> and there's all kinds of quoting
06:25:41 <augur> ah, so sort of like lisp 'n and '(a b)
06:25:58 <oklofok> but lisp is very clean when it comes to names
06:26:13 <oklofok> so you cannot in general pass patterns around like that
06:26:31 <oklofok> (well there's no pattern matching anyway really in lisp)
06:26:47 <augur> you can implement it easily enough :p
06:27:05 <augur> well, you can build a pattern matching language on top of lisp easily enough
06:27:23 <oklofok> i'm not bashing lisp, that was just a side note
06:28:08 <oklofok> in ef, i have very extensive pattern matching capabilities
06:28:28 <oklofok> existential quantification an the likes
06:29:12 <oklofok> you can pattern match on a certain slice of a list
06:29:40 <augur> existential quantification? do tell
06:29:41 <oklofok> (wtf am i doing? trying to find different pattern matching kinds for you, and advertising my languages)
06:30:12 <oklofok> _ is the implicit parameter variable in Ef, as in oklotalk and perl
06:31:01 <oklofok> {(x:_; y:_; ?x<?y & x>y) -> x,y=y,x}
06:31:12 <oklofok> this is a function that sorts a list
06:31:29 <oklofok> -> is the pattern matching here
06:31:42 <oklofok> the right side says what to do if the left side matches
06:32:16 <oklofok> left side takes x and y, two elements of _, and tests if x is smaller than y in index, but greater than it in value
06:32:38 <oklofok> Ef is a fixed-point language, so this is done infinite times
06:33:12 <oklofok> it's a pattern match in that it "matches" on certain kinds of lists
06:33:52 <oklofok> but, usually pattern match specifies a "body" the represents a certain shape object
06:34:48 <oklofok> but, i mean, you usually match on a sort of regex, except limited, something that specifies a family of objects, just like a regexp specifies a family of strings ->
06:35:24 <oklofok> like [A B] represents objects that are formed from two elements
06:36:03 <oklofok> variables are "bound" simply because that's a very easy and explicit way to represent structure
06:36:38 <oklofok> and because "binding" lets you refer to parts of the object you matched on, when on the right-side
06:37:02 <oklofok> but you don't need variables at all for pattern matching
06:37:44 <oklofok> you can, for instance, do what string rewriting does, and always have an explicit pattern on the left side
06:39:29 <oklofok> http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/thue.txt pattern matching without variables, as you can see i have to explicitly list a lot of cartesian products of the symbols i'm using, but it's a *possibility*
06:40:12 <oklofok> i guess my two points are you should keep a very open mind about pattern matching, because it's an awesome and a very general construct, and that i'm feeling very self-advertising today
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06:41:48 <oklopol> i should go to sleep soon, haven't slept in ages
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06:43:47 <oklopol> ...oh i almost forgot to mention graphica
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06:48:11 <spal> hi, I have written my brainfuck compiler and interpreter. is there someone who would be interested in doing a code review and tell me if I am wrong anywhere?
06:48:37 <spal> also, are there any standard test cases which I can run on my compiler and interpreter to check whether they work correctly?
06:48:49 <augur> oklopol: do you know of any de-obfuscation contests?
06:48:53 <spal> for the time being, I have written my own test cases with multiple nested loops, etc.
06:48:56 <augur> or esolang interpretation contests?
06:50:30 <pikhq> spal: If you could ask again in about 8-10 hours, I'll be able to help.
06:50:36 <pikhq> I'm going to sleep right about. . . Now.
06:50:45 <spal> pikhq: thanks. I'll do that.
06:50:59 <oklopol> spal: there's the unofficial lost kingdom http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html
06:51:15 <Slereah-> There's plenty of BF programs lying around.
06:51:15 <oklopol> augur: i haven't heard of such a thing.
06:51:27 <Sgeo> I know someone wrote stuff about compatibility and test cases
06:51:29 <augur> we should start one :)
06:52:04 <Sgeo> spal, http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/tests.b
06:52:08 <oklopol> i'm going to follow pikhq's lead now, so see ya
06:52:22 <spal> oklopol: Sgeo: thanks
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11:01:07 <GregorR> I wonder who Gregor Richardson is :P
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17:09:27 <ehird> #ircnomic's nomic is called Canada.
17:21:00 <pikhq> That may introduce some difficulties for diplomatic relationships between Canada Nomic and the Federation of Canada.
17:21:39 <ehird> pikhq: Also, oerjan played Canada. You have no choice but to join #ircnomic!
17:22:47 <Sgeo> ehird, say the channel name correctly?
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17:24:07 <Sgeo> That was the sound of ehird cheating
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19:54:27 <GregorR> Slereah-: "<Slereah_> Richard." it's "Richards" by the way ... with an 's'
19:57:44 <GregorR> My name is spelled Richard's'. The apostrophes represent glottal stops.
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20:23:01 <pikhq> Might I recommend adding in a geminative consonant to be even more cruel to people?
20:23:32 <pikhq> (how many languages do both geminates and glottal stops, anyways?)
20:24:24 <pikhq> So, your name would be something like "Rixtuchard's'".
20:24:40 <pikhq> That is fiendishly hard to pronounce.
20:25:04 <olsner> ooh, how about a geminate glottal stop :P
20:26:10 <olsner> hmm, that combination of characters conveys no semantic meaning to me :P
20:26:29 <olsner> I don't even know what I'm talking about anyways
20:27:35 <pikhq> xtu is the geminate in Japanese.
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21:00:01 <oklopol> GregorR: gregor richardson is most likely your son.
21:03:19 <pikhq> olsner: Small tsu.
21:03:46 <olsner> yeah, small tsu's what I wrote :P
21:05:45 <pikhq> olsner: My Unicode terminal hattes Japanese, sadly.
21:06:00 <pikhq> Deewiant: That's just how you type it into an IME.
21:06:02 <olsner> yeah, unicode is often troublesome on IRC
21:06:52 <olsner> woah! I didn't know there was a combination for that (always just type something with tte and cut-and-paste :P)
21:08:14 <pikhq> You can type x before any kana to make it small, IIRC.
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23:34:13 <oerjan> his French cousin, i assume
23:41:50 <ehird> lament: that must be painful to say
23:42:18 <oerjan> that's the far-away cousin from r'lyeh
23:42:44 <oerjan> I'll be Bachqx'k, when the stars are right
23:51:33 <ehird> ais523|busy: Sgeo oerjan Forceful conversation move.
23:52:11 <Sgeo> On how oraclebot.com sucks?
23:52:54 <oerjan> um me too? i thought i _was_ speaking in the right - um, well, better than #ircnomic anyhow
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