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09:01:00 <asiekierka> Eww... http://rafb.net/p/gu9rwa95.html
09:01:17 <asiekierka> Asie-1 CPU turned out to be a failure, mostly because of a lack of one function.
09:01:40 <asiekierka> also, wait, i must explain the Asie-1 CPU in clearer detail
09:03:42 <olsner> asiekierka: that first link is a 404 for me
09:04:52 <asiekierka> Sadly, i couldn't put another instruction in. MOV b, (value)
09:05:26 <asiekierka> or maybe YOU can propose an instruction to remove
09:05:31 <olsner> but immediates are pretty simple to do with load-from-memory, right?
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09:06:10 <asiekierka> but 256 bytes of memory is just NOT enough for this.
09:06:51 <asiekierka> so, basically, you CAN'T do immediates without creating them first
09:07:02 <olsner> oh, 16-bit registers, but 8-bit memory?
09:07:27 <asiekierka> which calls for a total of 256 bytes of program size.
09:07:44 <asiekierka> that's why i tried to make all instructions <16 bits.
09:08:13 <asiekierka> so, instructions are either 4 bits or 12 bits
09:08:43 <asiekierka> if i want to do NOT x (0101) and AND x (0111), i do: 0101 0111 in a single byte
09:09:09 <asiekierka> I thought of removing NOT b and AND b and replacing them with NAND b
09:09:25 <olsner> hmm, so why can't you just put the immediate in memory somewhere and just do LDA addr; MOV b, a;?
09:09:40 <asiekierka> i don't have the way to put the immediate
09:10:08 <asiekierka> but that can waste more than a half of the program!
09:11:46 <asiekierka> I'm thinking of combining NOT x and AND x
09:11:51 <olsner> NOP sounds obviously removable
09:12:04 <asiekierka> how else will you make delays in the program?
09:12:19 <olsner> INC b; DEC b; for example?
09:12:36 <olsner> or just jump around a lot
09:13:00 <asiekierka> well, olsner, NOT x and AND x can be combined
09:13:06 <asiekierka> while NOT b and AND b will be left separate
09:13:19 <olsner> hmm, so you're using this for a real-world application where 1-cycle accuracy in delays is vital?
09:14:05 <olsner> yeah, program size is a big factor with such a small memory space
09:14:15 <asiekierka> also, i'm making more space by adding NAND x
09:15:48 <asiekierka> now I think i can write an useful program
09:19:13 <asiekierka> I did set myself a goal of making a functional CPU in as less opcodes as possible
09:19:20 <asiekierka> while still doing most of possible functions
09:19:54 <GreaseMonkey> i recommend using the stack if you want a good amount of memory
09:19:56 <asiekierka> but 15 opcodes is the bare usefulity minimum
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09:21:06 <asiekierka> An entire processor can be created using NAND gates alone.
09:21:13 <GreaseMonkey> hmm... i have a plan for a system somewhere...
09:22:20 <GreaseMonkey> you'd probably need to load some stuff up, first.
09:22:31 <oklofok> asiekierka: nand gates != nand opcodes, though
09:22:54 <oklofok> you cannot really do much program flow control on pure computative opcodes.
09:23:00 <GreaseMonkey> also, logic opcodes are really irritating when it comes to arithmetic
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09:23:24 <oklopol> heh, quite a coincidence i dropped
09:23:52 <olsner> using nand gates for useful stuff involve re-routing of bits, not sure you can get it complete with just nanding bitwise between whole words
09:24:18 <asiekierka> I.E. http://rafb.net/p/ODmyxB22.html - for oklopol
09:24:45 <asiekierka> the "no-special-register as-small-instruction-set-CPU-as-possible with-some-usefulity"
09:24:53 <asiekierka> GreaseMonkey: slightly, but nothing pretty important
09:27:33 <oklopol> (you need bitshifts, which are implicit in wire maps, but not as opcodes)
09:28:01 <oklopol> asiekierka: i mean, nand-and-branch won't work without em
09:28:56 <asiekierka> I'd so like to implement it in Verilog
09:30:11 <oklopol> to achieve what, i'm sensing i'm missing some awesomeness
09:30:33 <oklopol> hmm, can't you "show something" on a computer?
09:30:48 <asiekierka> i wanted to showcase Asie-1 with connecting it to a screen
09:31:01 <asiekierka> But well, i'll probably wait for Asie-2 with this.
09:32:02 <oklopol> one of them can do all the others if you make SH's set a flag indicating the thingie that was dropped
09:32:34 <oklopol> even then, one can do all the others
09:33:46 <asiekierka> ROL. so... should i add a ROckeR or a ROLler?
09:33:48 <oklopol> umm what do you mean basically keeps the last bit
09:34:39 <asiekierka> you can then AND the value from ROR to get SHR
09:34:45 <oklopol> also i'm pretty sure my neighbors are having sex
09:35:12 <asiekierka> also, is there a very simple low-opcode CPU architecture out there?
09:35:23 <oklopol> subtract-and-branch-if-zero?
09:36:01 <oklopol> well less than or equal to zero i guess is the official one
09:36:15 <oklopol> although equal-to is prolly enough
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09:37:13 <oklopol> umm, actually 4 or 5, but one was cheated and did tons of stuff.
09:38:04 <oklopol> you just need subtraction for arithmetic, ror and nand for bit stuff, and branch-if-less-than-or-equal-to-zero for jumping around
09:38:26 <oklopol> ALSO PERHAPS AN INSTRUCTION THAT PUTS THE COMPUTATION IN A MONAD
09:39:00 <asiekierka> also, you need LDA for loading immediates/memory values AND STA for saving them
09:39:31 <oklopol> and even then it has some sweet redundancy!
09:39:33 <asiekierka> but it still gives more opcodes in total
09:40:26 <oklopol> on what do you consider a separate opcode
09:40:35 <asiekierka> anything that has different register params
09:41:05 <asiekierka> but with swaps, i'm limiting 4 instructions to just 2
09:41:53 <oklopol> with swp, you can only move, with mov, you can copy.
09:42:14 <asiekierka> i'll see how many instructions i'll have left
09:43:19 <oklopol> 0111$$$$ $$$$ - LDI ($$$$$$$$ - immediate value)
09:43:19 <oklopol> 1000$$$$ $$$$ - LDA ($$$$$$$$ - memory position)
09:43:19 <oklopol> 1001$$$$ $$$$ - STA ($$$$$$$$ - memory position)
09:43:28 <oklopol> right, different register params
09:43:46 <oklopol> i'm not really practical enough to assume a register-based processor.
09:44:02 <asiekierka> LDI loads an immediate, LDA loads from a memory position, STA stores to a memory position!
09:44:18 <oklopol> which is why i found it weird different params would be different opcodes
09:44:51 <oklopol> i just usually have the memory, and no registers, for my asms
09:45:14 <asiekierka> beq (branch-if-equal) and bze (branch-if-zero)
09:45:58 <oklopol> bze and beq are just a few ops away
09:46:06 <oklopol> although i'm sure you knew that already.
09:46:19 <asiekierka> what do you mean "just a few ops away"?
09:47:06 <oklopol> code = code[bze/beq] +- n, where n is about 4, and A/B means swap A and B
09:47:48 <oklopol> (and these number are opcounts)
09:48:20 <asiekierka> INCs now can be done in loops with beq
09:48:26 <oklopol> what i mean is, you don't *need* both of those, but you knew that already
09:48:40 <asiekierka> i don't have any other instruction to add anyway
09:49:51 <oklopol> well yeah, bze a = beq a a, beq a b = bze (sub a b)
09:50:16 <oklopol> how the fuck can i fail at that :D
09:51:02 <oklopol> you can just load an empty memory slot
09:52:33 <asiekierka> Well, the program can either supply it's own 256 bytes of memory
09:52:47 <asiekierka> if the program supplies it's own, this allows for banking
09:53:07 <oklopol> perhaps i should make a declarative asm
09:54:10 <oklopol> well i'll gladly program something given something to program in it
09:54:42 <asiekierka> well, i think, with such a limited amount of opcodes
09:57:08 <asiekierka> oklopol: are you doing it, or are you waiting for an easier task?
09:58:21 <oklopol> i'm actually trying to find the best way to do it, not that i'm necessarily going to do it anyway
09:58:43 <oklopol> you can compile it to c, and use a c compiler, perhaps.
09:59:26 <asiekierka> nope, this will be too much of a waste
10:01:19 <oklopol> what will be too much of a waste?
10:03:53 <oklopol> pi calculation is impossible in 256 bytes
10:09:29 <olsner> yes, pi has over 9000 decimals
10:12:50 <oklopol> 256 bytes ~ 616 decimals, pi has inf decimals, 256 != 9000, what's 9000?
10:13:44 <olsner> 9000 is a random big number that is well above the number of decimals that fit in 256 bytes
10:14:32 <oklopol> please elaborate on why you picked exactly *that* random number.
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10:18:05 <olsner> an attempt to integrate the OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!! meme into the discussion, but it seems to have failed
10:18:34 <oklopol> i know, just wanted you to explain the joke.
10:18:44 <oklopol> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
10:19:04 <oklopol> i think i'll break the pi calculation record now
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10:19:49 <asiekierka> oklopol: heh, you can implement banking in memory
10:20:37 <oklopol> 256 bytes is not enough to hold a program that calculates pi
10:21:12 <asiekierka> that accesses the bank of program equal to it's value
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10:37:31 <asiekierka> except loading/storing/comparsion stuff, that takes 12 bits, not 4
10:40:06 <asiekierka> is there any System 7 C compiler to download for free?
10:40:51 <oklopol> asiekierka: i can calculate the number of ops per 256 bytes, i'm asking what it means to change the bank
10:41:07 <asiekierka> you set $01 (or whatever position you want) to the number of the bank
10:41:10 <oklopol> i'm assuming it's a recursive call, and you can use a bank load as a function call
10:41:22 <asiekierka> then the Nth bank becomes the program code
10:41:43 <oklopol> start in the same position?
10:42:23 <asiekierka> then the bank starts execution at the 5th byte
10:42:34 <asiekierka> depends how large the set instruction is
10:42:51 <oklopol> makes compilation into banked pretty hard
10:43:17 <asiekierka> that's the only way to do anything IMPRESSIVE
10:43:32 <oklopol> can you set pc explicitly?
10:43:37 <oklopol> i haven't read the instruction set
10:44:59 <asiekierka> and you can use Branching for it anyways
10:46:51 <asiekierka> is there an assembler/C compiler for the System 6?
10:47:51 <Slereah_> The Ghostviewer logo looks like a Klansman.
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11:27:17 <oklopol> gonna sleep for a sinister second now ->
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16:43:35 <uvanta> ...i can't do this anymore ROFL
16:43:46 <ehird> uvanta: damn you, i was going on for 6 hours there
16:44:38 <ehird> uvanta: i'm not accepting your apology. you have ruined my life
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17:54:19 <asiekierka> 1101 - reserved, I.E. think of anything you could put there for Asie-1.3 :)
17:54:47 <ehird> asiekierka: 15 opcodes ... sounds like Yael
17:54:59 <ehird> ... and indeed the opcodes are similar
17:55:03 <ehird> asiekierka: esolangs.org/wiki/Yael
17:55:20 <asiekierka> oklopol proposed what instructions should be there for minimalism
17:56:23 <asiekierka> and trying to keep opcode size minimalism
17:57:16 <asiekierka> 256 bytes of program, 256 bytes of memory
17:57:16 <ehird> asiekierka: er, so is mine
17:57:28 <ehird> asiekierka: then yours is hideously underpowered
17:58:02 <asiekierka> though i was thinking of STP as the 16th opcode, it'll store whatever you have at A into the program counter
17:58:04 <ehird> asiekierka: {} is easier
17:58:25 <ehird> asiekierka: the empty set.
17:58:46 <ehird> asiekierka: correct.
17:58:52 <ehird> this means that implementing it is trivial
17:59:02 <ehird> C: int main(){return 0;}
17:59:14 <ehird> FPGA: { -- air -- }
17:59:40 <ehird> asiekierka: empty set is faster
18:00:07 <ehird> asiekierka: correct
18:00:23 <ehird> asiekierka: you said that yours was designed to be easy to implement
18:00:33 <ehird> asiekierka: and, well, your actual machine is useful for just about nothing
18:00:36 <asiekierka> without registers that do special stuff
18:00:40 <ehird> so the empty set doesn't cost you much
18:00:41 <ehird> and wins you a lot
18:00:58 <ehird> asiekierka: but .. still not very useful
18:01:02 <ehird> it would need to be a bit higher power
18:01:05 <ehird> to be more useful than {}
18:04:00 <ehird> its's not much useful
18:05:57 <asiekierka> i wanted something that has more opcodes than subleq
18:06:01 <ehird> asiekierka: sure, it's cool
18:06:05 <asiekierka> while less than most of the CPUs out there
18:06:05 <ehird> jus tnot particularly useful :-P
18:06:20 <ehird> asiekierka: here's a challenge
18:06:23 <ehird> asiekierka: a lazy cpu
18:06:52 <ehird> a cpu based on lazy evaluation
18:07:05 <ehird> asiekierka: ... :'(
18:07:06 <asiekierka> you must explain things to an 11-year-old
18:07:16 <ehird> asiekierka: the wikipedia!
18:08:31 <ehird> asiekierka: quite impossible and meaningless
18:08:47 <ehird> then CPU -1 is where it overflows
18:09:01 <ehird> the challenge is writing a compiler for }{
18:09:05 <ehird> it's quite impossible.
18:09:19 <ehird> you could probably write one in }{ though.
18:10:28 <ehird> I wonder what -x86 is.
18:10:34 <ehird> if x86 is {foo}, -x86 is }foo{
18:10:38 <ehird> oklopol would have a field day with this
18:12:24 <ehird> asiekierka: I .. see
18:13:03 <asiekierka> it's the Idiot's way to solving idiotic equations
18:13:43 <asiekierka> Rule #2: If a value dosen't fit or is random, and you can't do anything with it, turn it to zero's!
18:13:53 <asiekierka> Rule #3: Behave like an idiot adding stuff and mixing it
18:15:08 <ehird> RodgerTheGreat: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18:16:32 <RodgerTheGreat> gah! he answers questions with more perplexing riddles!
18:20:03 <ehird> RodgerTheGreat: I judge this contract, which is a contest: {}
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19:11:41 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: !!!
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21:32:01 <SimonRC> I have the beginnings of a compiler that targets befunge
21:32:27 <SimonRC> not like that scheme compiler that put all the code on one line
21:32:54 <SimonRC> currently you can't do much interesting with it though
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21:33:46 <SimonRC> *Main> ppp $ emit $ fst $ parse "1 zput begin zget 1 > while zget * zget 1- zput again"
21:34:35 <SimonRC> the first line of output is width, height, entry row, exit row
21:38:36 <SimonRC> (Haskell makes throwing this stuff together so easy.)
21:41:11 -!- timotiis has joined.
21:43:27 <ehird> SimonRC: can i see the code?
21:43:55 <ehird> SimonRC: define 'on'
21:45:39 <SimonRC> http://sc.nonlogic.org/Beforth/
21:46:03 <ehird> SimonRC: lern2notpollutemainnamespace
21:46:10 <SimonRC> My idea of a website is a set of symlinks into some other directories :-)
21:46:20 <ehird> SimonRC: kinda talking about your haskell
21:46:41 <SimonRC> I should re-arrange things
21:47:47 <ehird> SimonRC: I suggest:
21:47:51 <ehird> Language.Beforth.*
21:48:01 <ehird> SimonRC: which gives you the dir tree:
21:48:04 <ehird> src/Language/Beforth/*
21:49:24 <ehird> SimonRC: I am of course nitpicking unimportant things on purpose
21:51:10 <SimonRC> one problem is that your main module has to be called "Main"
21:52:39 <AnMaster> SimonRC, aww? I wanted to see it
21:54:11 <ehird> which is a thin wrapper around some stuff in your module
21:54:15 <ehird> SimonRC: Main should be in src/
21:54:22 <ehird> SimonRC: it should do option parsing and file reading and all that
21:54:28 <ehird> then dump the output to a file
21:54:55 <AnMaster> ehird, why not interactive program?
21:55:06 <AnMaster> I assume that is possible in haskell?
21:55:06 <ehird> AnMaster: that makes no sense
21:55:46 <AnMaster> <SimonRC> the input is forth-like
21:55:56 <ehird> AnMaster: that means the input language ....
21:56:24 <AnMaster> SimonRC, forth to befunge converter? sounds really really interesting
21:57:23 -!- jix has joined.
21:57:26 <ehird> AnMaster: not real forth
21:57:38 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:57:48 <ehird> also, wooo! I Wanna Be The Guy: The Movie: The Game runs with WINE!
21:57:55 <ehird> 8-bit masochism GO
21:58:19 <AnMaster> SimonRC, that > at the end makes no sense
21:58:31 <AnMaster> it will cause an infinite loop
21:58:41 <ehird> AnMaster: maybe he wants an infinite loop
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22:01:53 <SimonRC> AnMaster: it is only a program fragment
22:02:02 <SimonRC> the > at the end leads on to more stuff
22:03:59 <AnMaster> SimonRC, now, can you compress the code :D
22:05:55 <SimonRC> well, it is optimised a bit
22:06:23 <SimonRC> it folds the second half of the loop backwards and puts it in top of the first half
22:07:14 <SimonRC> Th problem with _ is that you can't flip it horizontally easily
22:07:44 <AnMaster> SimonRC, are you doing befunge93 or befunge98?
22:08:07 <AnMaster> then you got w instruction that will help you a lot
22:08:42 <SimonRC> well, I don't want to be too '98y
22:09:54 <AnMaster> SimonRC, are you using ccbi or cfunge to test the output with?
22:10:04 <AnMaster> that are the only good 98 interpreters out there really
22:10:45 <AnMaster> ccbi does have better debugging support in general, while cfunge is faster
22:10:51 * AnMaster wrote cfunge and Deewiant wrote ccbio
22:13:07 <ehird> * [minerale] (i=35181@about/cooking/alfredo/Minerale): minerale
22:13:07 <ehird> * [minerale] #pmog #ircnomic ##mac ##java #gentoo #irssi #lighttpd #oracle #vim #rtorrent #erlang #zsh #screen #wikipedia #macdev ##textmate ##apple #ubuntu #debian #drm ##helenthomasflowers #macports #macosx #goruco
22:13:12 <ehird> >>why<< did that guy join #ircnomic?
22:13:17 <ehird> ###helenthomasflowers? seriously?
22:13:49 <AnMaster> ehird, what on earth is that channel?
22:14:29 <ehird> AnMaster: i have no fucking idea
22:14:54 <ehird> but ... i'm not sure
22:15:22 <ehird> AnMaster: about cooking alfredo!
22:15:33 <AnMaster> ehird, anything except a unaffiliated cloak would be impossible to get as a bot
22:15:41 <ehird> AnMaster: about cooking!
22:16:02 <AnMaster> ehird, yes.. about as in ## channel
22:17:38 <SimonRC> ok, so the source is moved to http://sc.nonlogic.org/beforth/
22:19:04 <AnMaster> SimonRC, there are more stuff you can't flip
22:19:49 <AnMaster> oh wait is it only flip horizontally?
22:22:03 <AnMaster> SimonRC, well some would cause different result if you flip them, x sets absolute vector
22:22:10 <AnMaster> so you need to flip the arguments as needed too
22:23:02 <SimonRC> it only has to work on befunge that I emit
22:23:24 <AnMaster> SimonRC, anyway what interpreter are you using to test this?
22:23:57 <SimonRC> I'm just inspecting the outputted code
22:24:11 <AnMaster> SimonRC, well I can recommend ccbi and cfunge :)
22:24:20 <SimonRC> actually, currently I'm not working on it
22:24:32 <SimonRC> AnMaster: what're the relative advantages?
22:24:35 <AnMaster> ccbi got better debug support, supports more fingerprints and is more stable, it is coded in D
22:25:16 <AnMaster> cfunge is coded in C, is faster, got some debugging support, but not yet as much, doesn't yet support as many fingerprints and it's code base isn't as stable yet
22:25:24 <AnMaster> ccbi is coded by Deewiant in here
22:25:41 <AnMaster> SimonRC, oh and cfunge will not be easy to run on windows
22:25:52 <AnMaster> but cfunge is mainly coded for speed
22:26:20 <AnMaster> SimonRC, also cfunge is less likely to crash on random input as I have done fuzz testing on it ;)
22:27:22 <AnMaster> SimonRC, links to both exist on the befunge page on the esolang wiki
22:28:09 <ehird> SimonRC: did I mention that AnMaster uses hairy functions like posix_tell or whatever to preallocate stuff
22:28:11 <ehird> and preallocates files
22:28:13 <ehird> for the sake of 1ms
22:28:22 <AnMaster> SimonRC, oh and if you don't want to install boehm-gc: it won't be the default to use boehm-gc in next version. and you can already disable it by:
22:28:25 <ehird> (while, for example, leaving the hashtable algorithm as non-optimal)
22:28:39 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm working on said hash table
22:29:05 <AnMaster> I have been making it a bit faster already
22:29:14 <AnMaster> ehird, but I do plan a complete rework of that part
22:30:04 <AnMaster> SimonRC, + there are binaries for both ccbi and cfunge available. for ccbi there are win32 and linux32 binaries, while for cfunge there are linux32 and linux64 binaries
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22:38:33 <oerjan> Slereah_: was it this year you invented the Andrei Machine?
22:39:12 <oerjan> Slereah_: i salute your remarkable ventriloquist powers
22:39:42 <oerjan> anyway i'll fix the wiki category
22:41:38 <oerjan> and is it really unimplemented?
22:44:32 <oerjan> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Andrei_Machine_9000
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23:02:42 * oerjan recalls reading that "So" accidentally means the same in Japanese as in English
23:26:11 <olsner> and in scandinavian, dutch and german :P
23:26:58 <oerjan> that's not accidental, that's probably inherited
23:27:25 <olsner> yeah, so it's more like it means the same in japanese and germanic
23:28:50 <ehird> AnMaster: dirty language.
23:28:51 <AnMaster> which belongs to the subgroup scandinavian
23:28:57 <olsner> jajaja, men det r ju samma ord oavsett om det stavas med eller o :P
23:29:00 <oerjan> the pronunciation is the same essentially. except in english i guess
23:29:12 <ehird> jajajajjajajajjaa.
23:29:28 <ehird> oerjan: <subliminal>#ircnomic</subliminal>
23:29:29 * AnMaster slaps ehird with a super-large, super-smelly, decaying digitally-enhanced reinforced IRC-grade trout
23:29:46 * ehird slaps AnMaster with stupid client scripts
23:30:01 <oerjan> ehird: the wiki _still_ wasn't updated last i checked. how shall i know what game i am playing?
23:30:02 <AnMaster> oerjan, well the pronunciation of så and so are quite different
23:30:39 <oerjan> AnMaster: in swedish yes, but sw/no ~ german o
23:30:51 <ehird> <oerjan> ehird: the wiki _still_ wasn't updated last i checked. how shall i know what game i am playing?
23:30:54 <ehird> oerjan: we'll tell you
23:31:04 <AnMaster> oerjan, well I'm no expert of german, not knowing more than maybe 2-3 words in it
23:32:05 <oerjan> well essentially sw/no ~ nearly everyone else's o
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