00:01:03 <tusho> (read) only reads an s-expr.
00:01:06 <tusho> Hello world <-- won't work
00:01:16 <tusho> Slereah: Basically, (read) reads some Scheme code.
00:01:54 <Slereah> But, display (read) works as a one time occurence :o
00:02:14 <tusho> Slereah: Shut up. (read) reads a peice of scheme code.
00:02:21 <tusho> That's all you need to know.
00:02:36 <tusho> Slereah: What are you using instead of the run button
00:02:51 <Slereah> I was using the command line of Dr Scheme
00:03:14 <tusho> Slereah: You are running the graphical IDE. Yes?
00:05:41 <Slereah> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3169/2554098095_a9cd81f67b_o.jpg
00:05:41 <Slereah> What unholy magic is this :o
00:05:48 <tusho> Slereah: So, you are typing in the window.
00:05:55 <tusho> A screen will appear at the bottom.
00:06:01 <tusho> Where you can type scheme code and have it show the result.
00:06:05 <tusho> And it'll run your program in it.
00:06:08 <Slereah> Already did, as soon as you mentioned it!
00:06:20 <tusho> Slereah: Hokay. :P
00:06:25 <tusho> Well 'butt' displays because it's parsed as a symbol.
00:06:29 <tusho> Slereah: Try this.
00:06:46 <tusho> Because read READS A SCHEME EXPRESSION.
00:06:58 <Slereah> Well, what is the input-as-string?
00:07:07 <tusho> Slereah: Well, (read-line) will do
00:07:10 <tusho> Something like this:
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00:07:31 <tusho> (define (cat) (display (read-line)) (cat))
00:07:33 <tusho> Doesn't do EOF, but who cares.
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00:07:39 <tusho> Use as (cat) in the REPL after running
00:07:48 <Slereah> "reference to undefined identifier: read-line"
00:08:32 <tusho> Slereah: Hokay, let me figure out what mzscheme calls it
00:08:59 <Slereah> I set the language to R5RS, is it the awesome one
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00:09:12 <tusho> Set it to Standard.
00:09:24 <tusho> It's set at "R5RS".
00:11:04 <tusho> Slereah: PLT->Textual.
00:11:09 <augur> what on earth are you kids doing
00:11:17 <tusho> R5RS is the scheme standard specification, but it's what's referred to as "HILARIOUSLY MINIMAL"
00:11:31 <tusho> PLT->Textual is pretty much like R5RS except it has like 453507349853457934859385 more function.
00:11:43 <tusho> It's the 'MzScheme language', basically.
00:11:51 <tusho> (MzScheme is PLT's scheme implementation, that the DrScheme IDE uses)
00:12:17 <tusho> Slereah: Then click Run again.
00:12:24 <tusho> The read-line stuff should work.
00:12:50 <tusho> Slereah: Who cares, that code was frankly messed up.
00:12:56 <tusho> By the by, are you putting yer newlines in the right place?
00:13:00 <tusho> (display (read-line))
00:13:06 <tusho> (display (read-line))
00:13:14 <tusho> Slereah: You should put all the ending parens on the same line ye see.
00:13:20 <tusho> None of this c-style:
00:13:53 <tusho> Slereah: Shush you.
00:13:56 <Slereah> Or work only once, that is
00:14:26 <tusho> Slereah: Either read sicp if you want to know or just do what I say. :P
00:14:34 <Slereah> Ill urine won't help me much.
00:14:44 <Slereah> I doubt I'll be able to read it all before going to bed!
00:15:05 <Slereah> Or possibly understand it. You never know with those computer fellows.
00:15:28 <Slereah> Why, is there a feature movie now?
00:15:40 <augur> no you can watch the original lectures
00:15:46 <tusho> <Slereah> Or find the related part
00:15:46 <augur> http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/
00:15:52 <tusho> What is so hard about reading it in order?
00:15:56 <oklofok> that would be such a cool name if it wasn't the exact opposite of a name.
00:15:57 <tusho> Jeez. It's a book, not a reference.
00:15:59 <augur> you can also watch berkeley's more confusing version with brian harvey
00:16:03 <augur> http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978502
00:16:10 <Slereah> tusho : Length and the fact that it goes through a lot of already known stuff
00:16:11 <tusho> You're meant to read it from start to end, in order, and read all of it.
00:16:24 <augur> i agree with tusho
00:16:29 <tusho> Slereah: Well I'm not gonna help you until you do, because you're making it hard for yourself and asking us questions it can answer.
00:16:30 <augur> done use it as a ref
00:16:38 <Slereah> augur : I read sexuality into that
00:16:55 <tusho> Slereah: You read sexuality into everything, especially SICP, which you use as an excuse to ignore it's content.
00:16:55 <augur> ::sexualities you::
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00:17:14 <Slereah> Nah, I only read D&D in SICP
00:17:41 <Slereah> http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/wizard.jpg
00:17:48 <Slereah> That's what I'm talking about.
00:17:57 <augur> and you'll be a wizard
00:18:26 <tusho> augur: I think Slereah has severe ADHD and also a joy of giving people questions that he has the materials with which to answer himself but which he ignores so he can 'read D&D into them'
00:18:30 <tusho> it's happened before..
00:18:49 <augur> when sussman does over the metacircular evaluator
00:19:00 <augur> he dones a fez and a nice jacket
00:19:15 <augur> and they play also sprach zarathustra
00:19:24 <Slereah> Indiana Jones would kick his ass in a second.
00:21:11 <Slereah> Reading online books is not a lot of fun, tusho
00:21:39 <tusho> Slereah: Get a hard copy.
00:21:50 <augur> http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/index.htm
00:21:52 <tusho> From ze MIT press!
00:21:58 <augur> mit open course ware on EE and CS
00:22:11 <Slereah> Well, it would take a week to arrive.
00:22:26 <augur> you can masturbate in the mean time.
00:22:44 <Slereah> Although maybe they got it in town.
00:23:10 <oklofok> Slereah: don't read SICP, it'll prolly kill you, just use it as a ref, and ask questions here whenever you're not sure if it might answer them
00:23:22 <lament> don't read sicp, you're too stupid for it!
00:23:52 <Slereah> I see what you did there --_--
00:25:49 <oklofok> well probably with THOSE MASSIVE EYES
00:26:22 <oklofok> i don't really have an opinion about whether sicp should be read, although it is a nice book
00:26:56 <tusho> oklofok: it should certainly be read if you're writing terrible scheme and expecting us to help
00:27:07 <tusho> especially if you're writing A COMPILER.
00:27:12 <tusho> which is, uh, kind of SICP's forte
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00:35:58 <oklofok> i don't have a single opinion atm.
00:41:04 <augur> so hows the c-to-lisp compiler coming
00:41:25 <augur> you should do a lisp-to-brainfuck compiler.
00:41:57 <lament> lisp not fucked up enough already?
00:42:46 <oklofok> don't look at me i didn't do it
00:44:17 <tusho> lisp-to-brainfuck ain't that hard
00:44:22 <tusho> lisp->c then use c->bf
00:52:16 <augur> c->lisp->bf->haskell
00:53:49 <Asztal> I want the c->befunge compiler to be completed
00:53:57 <Asztal> I know it will never happen, but I can hope :)
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00:55:21 <tusho> augur: c->haskell isn't that hard
00:55:26 <tusho> you can even do pureness analysis
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00:55:35 <tusho> by storing extra type information
00:55:54 <augur> yes but is c->lisp->bf->haskell hard? i suspect so! :o
00:56:07 <tusho> c->lisp not hard, the lisp machines did it
00:56:14 <tusho> lisp->bf a bit hard, yeah, but not infeasable
00:56:24 <tusho> bf->haskell trivial
00:56:26 <augur> how did the lisp machines work, do you know?
00:56:34 <tusho> the cpu executed lisp code.
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00:56:49 <augur> can you explain the large scale structure of the cpu?
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00:56:58 <tusho> augur: it ran lisp
00:57:11 <augur> ok, now a slightly smaller scale structure? :P
00:59:03 <augur> i get how c can run on a modern cpu, because modern cpus are imperative and such
00:59:23 <augur> and c is hardly an abstraction from machine code, in the grand scheme of things
00:59:34 <augur> but lisp is so far from modern cpus that i cant imagine how the cpu looked
01:06:21 <augur> anyone know what a thunk is?
01:10:06 <oerjan> in lisp, a function with no arguments
01:11:47 <tusho> augur: well, it isn't like c running on a cpu
01:11:52 <tusho> it's like a cpu that at its most native level, runs c
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07:31:58 <lament> write a good music notation program for os x and release it as open source.
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08:47:13 <lament> then, first, learn music notation
08:47:24 <lament> learn to play some instrument so you can apply that knowledge
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10:35:29 <AnMaster> <lament> write a good music notation program for os x and release it as open source.
10:35:39 <AnMaster> doesn't rosegarden work on OS X?
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13:41:59 <Slereah5> Well, seems like ill urine isn't at the local bookstores.
13:43:08 <oklopol> US UROPHILES HAVE A RIGHT TO PROGRAM TOO
13:43:11 <oklopol> WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE
13:46:43 <oklopol> Scheme is my mother tongue!
13:46:55 <oklopol> KINDA LIKE I PEED IN YOUR MOTHER'S MOUTH LAST NIGHT
13:48:03 <Slereah5> Is that the terrible conlang that nobody speaks?
13:48:29 <Asztal> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Ithkuil_sentence.ogg < that scares me
13:49:08 <oklopol> there's nothing terrible about it, except for the great amount of phonemes.
13:49:34 <oklopol> i'm contemplating hiring a teacher or smth
13:49:35 <Slereah5> And the fact that everyone of them means something
13:49:51 <Asztal> I read about the formal script for Ilaksh yesterday, that was just weird
13:49:52 <oklopol> ithkuil root words are of the form C1..C2
13:50:29 <oklopol> you can have a, e or i in between, for 3 modifications of the concept
13:50:42 <oklopol> MILLIONS OF WAYS TO MODIFY IT!
13:50:52 <Slereah5> What happens if you have a cold?
13:50:58 <Slereah5> Are you unable to communicate?
13:51:30 <Slereah5> Yeah, since no one talk that language
13:52:36 <oklopol> it really doesn't seem that hard.
13:52:48 <oklopol> the problem is the lexicon, as with all languages.
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15:35:12 <pikhq> Hot shit on a stick, Batman!
15:35:16 <pikhq> Reprap replicates!
15:44:21 <pikhq> http://craphound.com/overclocked/Cory_Doctorow_-_Overclocked_-_Printcrime.html, BTW, is a damned good story.
15:45:37 <Slereah> You know what else is a damn good story?
15:49:29 <Slereah> http://www.amazon.fr/Watership-Down-Richard-Adams/dp/038039586X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212763757&sr=8-2
15:50:17 <pikhq> Still, come on. . .
15:52:57 <oklopol> pikhq: true, that was pretty great
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16:06:48 <oklopol> ithkuil does relative clauses just like lalna!
16:07:02 <oklopol> except my system is much more complex.
16:08:17 <oklopol> ithkuil does everything with -fixes and infliction, which i think is the reason for it seeming so complicated
16:09:35 <Asztal> well, sort of. I'm learning hungarian - not quite *so* suffix-obsessed, but has a lot
16:09:39 <oklopol> and that is because you're from ...x?
16:09:55 <oklopol> they say hungarian is similar to finnish
16:10:12 <oklopol> hal (hung.) = kala (finn.) is all i know though.
16:10:49 <Asztal> they are related, but I think they probably split quite a while ago
16:11:17 <Asztal> since they're apparently unintelligible to each other
16:11:19 <oklopol> i dunno, i don't really believe in history
16:11:45 <oklopol> there aren't really any noticable similarities
16:11:57 <Asztal> whereas I can read Dutch and recognise a lot of it :)
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16:12:47 <Asztal> I remembeer szív is shared too
16:12:50 <oklopol> i have no idea, there was a hungarian here... nick was something starting with n*
16:13:21 <oklopol> Deewiant: know hungarian or googled?
16:13:30 * ais523 knows a few words of Hungarian
16:13:51 <Deewiant> I lived in hungary when I was 3-4 years old but that's not very helpful I'm afraid :-P
16:14:08 <ais523> I went there for a conference for a week once
16:14:16 <ais523> but everyone spoke in English
16:14:23 <Deewiant> evidently it also always stresses the first syllable
16:14:47 <Deewiant> here's a short table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_languages#Common_vocabulary
16:14:56 <Deewiant> and here's some more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_sound_correspondences_between_Hungarian_and_other_Uralic_languages
16:15:45 <Asztal> I like english's method... the stress patterns can be weird and even native speakers get it wrong :)
16:18:13 <pikhq> The stress patterns are quite variable in English, for the sake of emphasis. Whee.
16:18:51 <oklopol> stress patterns *within words* aren't, pikhq
16:19:11 <pikhq> But it's been done.
16:19:24 <Asztal> like lexicographical: it seems the stress pattern is made so that the stressed syllables are evenly spaced
16:19:36 <ais523> IPA uses different sorts of apostrophes to mark stresses
16:19:44 <Asztal> that must be how we guess the stress pattern by intuition
16:19:59 <oklopol> imo ithkuil went over the line a bit by making stress actually change the meaning of a word
16:20:17 <oklopol> (otherwise it's great sofar)
16:20:34 <Asztal> it can do in english too, though it's rare (reCORD, REcord)
16:22:23 <ais523> well, that's a different length of e
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16:50:01 <tusho> I don't dare to boot up X, yet.
16:50:12 <tusho> I trust you haven't messed up the eso-std server yet? :-P
16:50:19 <tusho> I'm planning on getting apache working today
16:50:44 <ais523> no, I haven't screwed up the server
16:50:54 <ais523> I'd like to get the darcs stuff back up soon, though
16:51:04 <tusho> ais523: yes, i'll do that ASAP after I get apache working
16:51:34 <tusho> ais523: i'll also put darcsweb on there, because it's nice to be able to browse the code online & view diffs between revisions etc
16:52:34 <tusho> i'll start x now, but a bit of snake(1) before that to make sure it won't die
16:54:02 <tusho> ais523: gnome's starting...
16:54:11 <tusho> what part do you think it'll crash at?
16:54:19 <tusho> also, should I open epiphany, xchat or other first?
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16:54:38 <ais523> you have a better idea of your computer's idiosyncracies than I do
16:54:51 <tusho> ais523: you'd think so...
16:55:11 <tusho> it defies all laws of logic, I think it might be one of thems 4-dimensional aliens
16:55:28 <tusho> Well, I chose epiphany.
16:55:44 <tusho> ais523: intersetingly, even if the gui is doing stuff it never crashes in console mode
16:55:48 <tusho> i really do think it's the gfx card like you said
16:56:54 <tusho> ais523: WOW! The back button didn't crash it.
16:56:57 <tusho> It must like me today
16:58:53 <tusho> ais523: xchat time
16:59:07 <tusho> connect lil' guy! connect!
16:59:11 <tusho> i wanna see you from irssi
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16:59:29 <tusho> ais523: he can't talk right now, he's busy in console mode
16:59:52 <tusho_> I JUST RESIZED MY XCHAT WINDOW :D
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17:10:11 <tusho_> ais523: no, the computer crashed
17:10:18 <tusho_> even though it was working for 10 minutes
17:10:25 <ais523> well, that was a fast restart, then
17:20:53 <Hiato> Alrighty, I conceded, this python has beaten me. Calling reinforcements...
17:21:58 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/wj80Yx47.html
17:22:09 <Hiato> that's where it sits currently
17:22:59 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/SCYYhi81.html
17:23:14 <Hiato> that's what it should be doing (rough description)
17:23:40 <tusho_> Hiato: 4 space indentations plz
17:25:44 <tusho_> Hiato: everyne who uses python uses 4-space indentation, it's hard to read python with other indentations
17:26:39 <ais523> 'hard to read python with other indentations'?
17:26:58 <ais523> changing indentation amount doesn't make langs harder to read if the screen's wide enough to fit the indentation on
17:27:01 <tusho_> 4-space indentation is universal
17:27:06 <Hiato> right, I'll learn of this so called "4 space indentation" hopefully, but, how do I fix what's broken :P
17:27:15 <tusho_> Hiato: i'd tell you if I could read it
17:27:27 <tusho_> ais523: With a whitespace-sensitive language like p ython it really does make things hard
17:27:30 <ais523> that 8-space looks perfectly readable to me
17:27:39 <Deewiant> indentation makes something hard to read only if it's 1 space or over 10 spaces
17:27:51 <Hiato> that was automatic by IDLE by the way :P
17:27:59 <tusho_> Hiato: did you save it as .py?
17:28:04 <tusho_> if not it won't highlight or indent properly
17:28:09 <tusho_> Hiato: _before_ typing it?
17:28:12 <ais523> Deewiant: almost agreed, my version of that statement is "indentation makes something hard to read only if it's 1 space in a language not designed for it, or so wide the lines wrap"
17:28:33 <Deewiant> ais523: yeah, that's more accurate
17:28:51 <ais523> BF and Lisp are both readable at 1-space indentation
17:29:01 <Hiato> well, tusho_ the problem is more or less with this guy:
17:29:02 <Hiato> if ord(n[k]) in range(ord('a'),ord('z')):
17:29:02 <Hiato> which simply doesn't work...
17:29:07 <Hiato> or doesn't seem to for that matter
17:29:10 <Deewiant> I don't call anything in BF 'indentation' ;-)
17:29:24 <ais523> Deewiant: I have a BF mode for Emacs which does auto-indentation
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17:33:05 <Hiato> if ord(n[k]) in xrange(ord('a'),ord('z'),1):
17:33:16 <Hiato> maybe something there is still redundant, but whatever
17:34:34 <Hiato> now something is wrong with the logic...
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17:38:42 <Hiato> I cannot understand this at all, I have clearly written if blah blah: t-= 1, but everytime it gets there and blah is true, it increases t. What is going on?
17:39:35 <ais523> Hiato: are you sure that that's the bit of code that's running?
17:39:43 * Hiato wonders if everyone decided to leave the noob to he's own devices
17:39:50 <ais523> try putting a print statement there to make sure that it's that bit that's running but not a different bit
17:39:52 <Hiato> so says the debugger
17:40:03 <Hiato> got that set up :P
17:40:33 <ais523> is the code immediately after adding 2 to t and canceling out the effect?
17:40:39 * Hiato will now stare at the code until it behaves and writes itself
17:41:21 <Hiato> Nope, here it is in context
17:41:22 <Hiato> if ord(n[k]) in xrange(ord('a'),ord('z'),1): t -= 1
17:41:47 <ais523> yes, look at the next 3 lines
17:41:58 <ais523> they certainly look like they could have the effect of adding 2 to t
17:42:04 <ais523> under certain circumstances
17:42:13 <Hiato> nada, sorry ais523. Thanks though :)
17:42:32 <Hiato> I watch it in the debugger, and as it gets past that if, it adds 1...
17:42:54 <ais523> what happens if you change t-=1 to t+=1?
17:42:56 <Hiato> it's like it took it upon itself to execute an else, deemed to be the opposite of the true clause...
17:43:13 <ais523> <Hiato> it's like it took it upon itself to execute an else, deemed to be the opposite of the true clause...
17:43:18 <ais523> now that's a great idea for an esolang
17:43:48 <Hiato> heh, lol... yeah, you might actually have something there :P
17:44:05 <Hiato> (PS: t +=1 does exactly what it's supposed to... unlike t -= 1
17:44:56 <Hiato> if ord(n[k]) in xrange(ord('a'),ord('z'),1): t = t - 1
17:44:57 <Hiato> makes it 2 when t=1????
17:45:13 <ais523> are you sure you're looking at the right symbol?
17:45:30 <Hiato> there's not a single t += anything in that entire section
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18:05:36 <Hiato> back, and... oh, wait... nevermind, it didn't write itself...
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19:37:39 <oklopol> if ord(n[k]) in range(ord('a'),ord('z')): <<< still doesn't include 'z'
19:38:07 <Hiato> oklopol, that's not really the problem though
19:38:15 <Hiato> the fact that it increases z is
19:38:48 <oklopol> also, ...ord('z'),1) is equal to just ...ord('z'))
19:39:37 <oklopol> well yes i know it's not the problem
19:39:50 <oklopol> but i can't fix your problem because i'm not sure how the thingie works
19:40:05 <oklopol> (well i guess i could, but i'm not gonna read it unless i know what it should do)
19:40:19 <Hiato> would you like me to explain?
19:41:19 <Hiato> http://www.rafb.net/p/SCYYhi81.html
19:41:23 <oklopol> a2z = range(ord('a'),ord('z')+1)
19:41:23 <Hiato> there's the vague one
19:41:41 <Hiato> well, that's what it should do
19:43:10 <Hiato> well, essentially there are 26 variables, each represented by a lower case alphabet letter. There is an IP with a possible range of 1..4 (inclusive) for the four commands: Inc, Dec, Begin if >0 loop, End if >0 loop. Essentially, the syntax consists of only varibales
19:44:01 <oklopol> ip grows by one every step
19:44:12 <Hiato> you type two characters for each instruction. The first is the origin data, the second the storage place. Say, the IP is on 1 (Inc) and I go "ab" it effectively means that b = a +1
19:44:17 <Hiato> yeah, that's right
19:44:33 <oklopol> okay, i get it completely now
19:44:33 <Hiato> any non-variable merely advances the ip
19:45:44 <Hiato> where it should be terminating the loop skipping back through the code searching for the last valid ip=3 (begin if>0 loop) it just continues forever
19:46:06 <oklopol> random thing: you always do k+=2 after each oper, so you could just have that once in the code
19:46:22 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/oWtcmH82.html
19:46:30 <Hiato> heh, well spotted :)
19:46:42 <oklopol> actually i'm not sure what these iteration constructs should do :)
19:46:48 <Hiato> but, nonetheless, the skipping back part no worky
19:46:49 <oklopol> can you explain them once more?
19:47:55 <Hiato> right, well essentially they operate much like a bf [ and ] would. If the ip is 3 (begin) and the code is valid, it continues onwards, storing a 1 in the second var
19:48:02 <oklopol> while(var>0) according to the impl
19:48:07 <Hiato> if it's 0, then it skips to end, if it's no-op, it ignores
19:48:53 <Hiato> when it finds a valid ip=4(end>0) it checks if the var specified>0 if so, searches back for matching ip=3 and stores a one in second var
19:49:07 <Hiato> rather, it should be able to
19:49:25 <Hiato> *otherwise just continues
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19:49:53 <oklopol> basically, there's a [ if in a place of code the ip is 3 and there's a variable at that specific place
19:50:21 <oklopol> and the ip's traversal through 1..4 happens at parsing stage
19:50:36 <Hiato> and it dumps 1/0 (T/f) appropriately
19:50:40 <oklopol> meaning it increments and decrements normally when you do the jumping that is looping
19:50:58 <oklopol> okay, i think i can fix it now
19:51:15 <Hiato> essentially, if you're looping back, there's no need to worry, because the ip will have to be 3 when you find it next
19:51:31 <Hiato> and same applies for jumping forwards (except ip=4)
19:52:00 <Hiato> (The sample code should increase a twice, then decrease through looping to 0 )
19:54:31 <Hiato> *2 for every valid instructions :)
19:54:42 <oklopol> you set it, but calculate again for actual use
19:55:04 <Hiato> I'm not exactly a seasoned programmer :)
19:55:20 <oklopol> if you're at ip=2, and there's a var
19:55:23 <oklopol> meaning you should reduce t by 1
19:55:27 <oklopol> you first do if ord(n[k]) in range(ord('a'),ord('z')): t -= 1
19:55:52 <oklopol> i think i found the problem, but i'm explaining a different problem you don't have.
19:55:54 <Hiato> one of those t -=1 should be a plus
19:56:26 <Hiato> (PS: are is for debugging :) )
19:56:33 <oklopol> 41-43 should be removed completely, i think
19:56:45 <oklopol> excet you need to change k changes ofc
19:56:55 <Hiato> but then, surely, if you pass a nested begin, you'll stop looping
19:58:17 <oklopol> waitwait... it's a while since i did this kind of imperative quibbling
19:58:28 <Hiato> We are at the last end, and we loop back, find the second b and continue
19:58:32 <oklopol> but this *should* be a piece of cake
19:58:52 <oklopol> no, because the first E increased T
19:59:02 <Hiato> I know, it's actually cruel how this eludes my best efforts
19:59:19 <Hiato> yeah, so we need the dec t part for the second b then, surely
19:59:23 <oklopol> btw, remember also to set p after your whiles
19:59:34 <oklopol> that may be your problem, even
19:59:43 <Hiato> well, I'm not that far
20:00:00 <Hiato> the problem occurs earlier in stopping at the right point
20:00:05 <oklopol> you need and inc and a dec for t for both the [ and the ] loop.
20:00:24 <oklopol> your problem here is really that you're not abstracting enough, but i guess you know that
20:00:31 <Hiato> but, that still isn't the problem
20:00:34 <oklopol> (and naturally it's cooler to do this way)
20:01:30 <oklopol> anyway, did you remove 41-43?
20:01:40 <oklopol> 39 does the decrement of t
20:01:50 <oklopol> you're doing the next round there, already
20:01:57 <Hiato> something needs to count the Begins too
20:02:05 <Hiato> 39 should increase
20:02:25 <Hiato> no, something still needs to increase somewhere
20:02:35 <Hiato> and it should be 39
20:02:39 <Hiato> to count the nested ones
20:02:59 <Hiato> but, that doesn't effect the sample prog
20:03:01 <oklopol> but you should only have one decrement in the if clause
20:03:22 <oklopol> then fix the amounts of k's change
20:03:27 <Hiato> 44-46 can go I think
20:03:43 <Hiato> I'm not sure what it's doing
20:05:14 <Hiato> 6 is the wrong interval
20:05:22 <Hiato> optionally, the + and - should swap
20:05:43 <Hiato> yeah, it should be
20:06:30 <Hiato> heh, from the sample prog
20:06:40 <Hiato> it appears swapping the + and - did the trick
20:06:53 <Hiato> but, now we're back to a t increase when the code says -
20:07:18 <oklopol> might help to paste the new one
20:07:21 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/3dzInC94.html
20:07:45 <Hiato> but 40 is still increasing t for some inexplicable reason
20:07:59 <Hiato> do you have IDLE on hand? Or Eclipse or something
20:08:37 <oklopol> p = 1 on line 47, shouldn't that be 3?
20:09:10 <oklopol> i mean, you're jumping into a code cell right after a [-cells, which is a 2-cell
20:09:14 <Hiato> nope, because we went back to begin, which is instruction 2 (counting from 0 in the impl)
20:09:24 <Hiato> and p gets increased after every itwer
20:09:25 <oklopol> yes, and then one after that
20:09:47 <oklopol> yes, so it gets to 2, and then increases by one
20:10:01 -!- cherez has left (?).
20:10:10 <Hiato> p=1 then p += 1 makes it p = 2
20:10:20 <Hiato> which is right for the looped back begin
20:10:39 <Hiato> I see what you're saying
20:10:59 <Hiato> what I'm doing is checking at the ] if >0 and then at the [ if >0
20:11:10 <oklopol> similarly, on line 26, p = 3 should be p=0 afaik
20:11:22 <Hiato> but, you need to, because they don't necessarily imply the same variable
20:11:34 <oklopol> or 3 if you don't increase k.
20:11:50 <Hiato> well, either way - it's still not the problem :P
20:12:00 <Hiato> because 40 is still messing up
20:13:03 <Hiato> if ord(n[k]) in xrange(ord('a'),ord('z')+1): t -= 1
20:13:03 <Hiato> with t = 1, n[k]='a' produces t = 2!?!?!?!
20:14:14 <oklopol> i'm fairly sure that backjump works now except for p=1
20:14:23 <oklopol> which still should be 3 :|
20:14:26 <Hiato> thing is it doesn't :P
20:14:48 <oklopol> where abcd are some random shit
20:14:50 <Hiato> yeah, I will shoot myself if the problem lies there
20:15:23 <oklopol> it then goes to d, and checks if that's a var
20:15:35 <oklopol> my "d" means an empty cell called "d"
20:15:44 <oklopol> so it doesn't do anything to t
20:15:58 <oklopol> it then reduces k by 6 and gets to "a"
20:16:05 <oklopol> which is empty, so it doesn't increase t
20:16:58 <Hiato> ps: I think you're right about the p = 1 thing ;)
20:17:10 <oklopol> well that's what i thought
20:17:18 <Hiato> I need one more test though :)
20:17:19 <oklopol> @ a, ip should always be 3
20:17:32 <oklopol> because @ [, ip is necessarily 2
20:18:02 <oklopol> but it should be correct otherwise, the problem lies elsewhere provided you've corrected p=1
20:20:26 <Hiato> (PS: removing k += 2 so p = 2 so we can test [ 's variables)
20:21:08 <Hiato> nope, still needs to be 3
20:21:39 <Hiato> that's what it should do
20:21:40 <oklopol> a-loop is loop-back conditional on a
20:22:44 <oklopol> i can whip you up an interp that parses that into something more intelligible, if you wanna
20:23:03 <Hiato> a quick met lang :)
20:28:29 <oklopol> but i can show you my first parsing phase in a sec
20:28:43 <Hiato> and cool, if you can
20:29:05 <olsner> "hey honey, you wanna inspect my parsing phases?"
20:29:30 <Hiato> "You know the way to man's heart sweety"
20:30:05 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p366524266.txt
20:30:36 <Hiato> wow, impressive and compact :)
20:31:07 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/R4CsXt99.html
20:31:16 <Hiato> here we are, a working model too I believe
20:33:54 <Hiato> waiting on your prog to test nesting oklopol :P
20:35:55 <Hiato> yeah, the jumps work forwards and backwards :)
20:37:21 <Hiato> better version: http://rafb.net/p/P26Uvz17.html
20:37:29 <Hiato> so am I - I hope :)
20:37:35 <oklopol> sorry, for some raeson your k+=2 made me add two to my iterator too
20:37:48 <Hiato> (PS: I was right about both 3 and 1)
20:37:54 <Hiato> heh, no worries :)
20:42:14 <oklopol> and you have an unconditional p+=1 in the end
20:42:38 <Hiato> essentially, in [abcd] where a,b,c,d are blanks, we hit the [. Here the ip = 2 and we check the vars, then we move through a,b,c,d and at the ] the ip = 3. Then, if we jump back, and it gets increase by one, it has to be 1 to be at 2 at the [
20:42:41 <oklopol> (got it, i guess i was technically wrong)
20:42:46 <Hiato> I'll tell you why though, not to make me right
20:43:37 <Hiato> it's because you can make an if statement by going BEGIN [a>0] {blah} [END B>0] where b = 0 and a is unknown
20:43:39 <oklopol> yeppity got it, i didn't know about line 47 (never read that long tbh :P), and you've removed k+=2, for obvious reasons
20:43:44 <Hiato> this way you won't loop
20:45:12 <Hiato> righty o, so is the meta-lang ready?
20:45:37 <oklopol> well it parses the thingie already, i'll quickly whip up an interp too
20:45:57 <Hiato> wanna check nested loops
20:46:02 <oklopol> i need the you to re-explain the semantics of [] again
20:46:03 <Hiato> or is it a one-way parsers?
20:46:16 <oklopol> the exact semantics regarding the two vars
20:46:36 <oklopol> [ skip loop if a = 0, and do X to b
20:46:53 <Hiato> essentially, at ip=2, the interp is given two variables (arbitrarily a & b). If a>0 then loop and make b=1, if a<=0 then skip and make b=0
20:50:27 <Hiato> implemented your k += 2 global idea: http://rafb.net/p/Lunwl621.html
20:50:33 <Hiato> now to make a parser :)
20:51:05 <oklopol> it's set to 0 if it loops back
20:51:26 <Hiato> because 1st var>0 == true
20:52:13 <oklopol> hmm, this actually isn't all that trivial, because python doesn't have a goto
20:52:27 <tusho_> oklopol: you don't need it
20:52:36 <tusho_> e.g. add another function
20:52:41 <tusho_> and 'return' in the right place
20:52:44 <Hiato> no, you don't proven by my interpreter:P
20:52:48 <Hiato> which works now :)
20:53:26 <oklopol> you're not using python's constructs, but your own traversal through raw code
20:54:01 <tusho_> you'd like perl, I think
20:54:08 <tusho_> it lets you write code like okopython, but crazier
20:54:15 <tusho_> and it does actually have goto :P
20:54:30 <tusho_> ais523: okopython is oklopol's unique style of python
20:54:34 <ais523> tusho_: goto &proc, surely?
20:54:41 <ais523> goto a typeglob makes no sense at all
20:54:52 <ais523> in fact, I can't even imagine a lang in which that would begin to make sense
20:54:53 <tusho_> anyway, okopython somehow implements every programming language in a tiny amount of space
20:54:59 <ais523> maybe I'll have to create one...
20:55:09 <ais523> but I have no idea how that would work
20:55:11 <tusho_> for example, if oklopol wrote a C compiler in okopython
20:55:15 <tusho_> it'd be 70 lines, in total
20:55:25 <tusho_> it would rm -rf / if you fed it a wrong program, so don't do that.
20:55:47 <ais523> tusho_: incidentally, if you try that when you aren't root, does it delete everything you can delete or does it just do nothing?
20:55:58 <tusho_> ais523: why not try it?
20:56:11 <ais523> tusho_: no, that's the sort of command that shouldn't be tried
20:56:18 <tusho_> ais523: i'll try it on rutian
20:56:24 <tusho_> rm: cannot remove root directory `/'
20:56:29 <tusho_> I knew that would happen, obviously.
20:56:32 <tusho_> It's hardcoded into rm.
20:56:46 <ais523> you can override it with --no-preserve-root
20:56:58 <tusho_> ais523: 'sudo nobody rm -rf --no-preserve-root /'
20:57:01 <ais523> not sure why you'd want to, though
20:57:04 <tusho_> that'll test with no worries, right?
20:57:13 <ais523> tusho_: you forgot an arg to sudo
20:57:24 <ais523> and I'm sure nobody owns /something/
20:57:36 <tusho_> ais523: hokay, it juts goes through every file and complains about perms
20:57:43 <tusho_> so I assume yeah, everything you can
20:58:13 <ais523> tusho_: if you own a file but not the dir it's in, can you delete it?
20:58:35 <tusho_> you'd have to modify the dir structure
20:58:35 <ais523> if you don't have write access to the dir
20:58:37 <oklopol> it seems i actually failed @ making this without thinking, so... http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p651243214.txt, amirite?=
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20:59:23 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p513651233.txt
20:59:43 <oklopol> so basically, [ab body cd], a and b are the begin-vars, c and d the end-vars
20:59:52 <oklopol> are these the exact semantics with goto?
21:01:41 <Hiato> let me think quick
21:02:01 <Hiato> by begin vars you mean a is the condition and b is the dump?
21:03:23 <Hiato> that text looks good
21:03:53 <Hiato> yeah, that's spot on :)
21:04:12 <Hiato> how does one perform the abs ( | | ) function in python?
21:04:42 <ais523> Hiato: abs(thenumbertotakeabsof)
21:04:54 <oklopol> what should b be after that code, Hiato?
21:05:01 <oklopol> it's 1 in mine after running the code
21:05:02 <Hiato> I was thinking along the lines of import * from c_types or soemthing
21:05:24 <ais523> Hiato: now, if you'd asked "how does one perform the abs ( | | ) function in INTERCAL", I'd have been able to refer you to the original docs
21:05:27 <Hiato> because you broke the loops
21:05:30 <ais523> where that was used as an example
21:07:25 <oklopol> it's not actually much shorter
21:07:31 <oklopol> just *conceptually* more beautiful.
21:07:41 <oklopol> unfortunately pretty ugly in practise.
21:07:41 <Hiato> nicely done nonetheless :)
21:08:02 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p561224165.txt
21:08:35 <oklopol> a lot of details i didn't feel like abstracting away / explaining
21:08:35 <Hiato> wow, impressive :)
21:08:45 <oklopol> but who cares, i'll fix if something doesn't work
21:09:00 <Hiato> lol, just finishing off the metalang
21:09:05 <Hiato> with human readable syntax
21:09:12 <Hiato> then we can start to break things :)
21:09:28 <Hiato> from it to this lang
21:09:36 <Hiato> which I now deem: "RFL"
21:09:42 <Hiato> repeating four language
21:12:31 <oklopol> finished are you are you now are you?
21:12:49 <Hiato> well, there's some weird error I don't really get
21:12:52 <Hiato> but yeah, I should be
21:13:05 <Hiato> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before assignment
21:13:11 <oklopol> i thought you were just defining a syntax
21:13:31 <Hiato> meh, what the heck
21:13:34 <Hiato> here's the code thus far
21:14:09 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/sK6LBK90.html
21:14:38 <Hiato> it takes an easier to read input and yields output
21:16:06 <Hiato> the last res += should be an r+=
21:16:10 <Hiato> but, it still moans
21:16:26 <Hiato> Traceback (most recent call last):
21:16:26 <Hiato> File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in <module>
21:16:26 <Hiato> File "C:/Documents and Settings/Administrator/My Documents/Python Projects/LangParser.py", line 23, in Thingy
21:16:26 <Hiato> r = r + n[k+1] + n[k+2]
21:16:27 <Hiato> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'res' referenced before assignment
21:16:27 <oklopol> i just meant that error was a trivial naming error
21:17:16 <Hiato> but there is a bug type thing
21:17:55 <augur> augur, not augie. :P
21:17:59 <augur> i knew a guy named augie.
21:18:48 <oklopol> augur: i was trying to be informal an breezy
21:19:03 <augur> still, just augur. :P
21:21:29 <oklopol> anyway, Hiato: the way i'd do that is keep track of where in code i am atm
21:22:02 <oklopol> then, when you need to put in, say -
21:22:38 <Hiato> a different way completely, but your way sounds good too :)
21:23:01 <oklopol> anyway, this way you could calculate the relative offset instead of keeping track of "last put thingie"
21:23:01 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/wrGdXm27.html
21:24:24 <Hiato> Go(Thingy()) works like a charm! :)
21:25:06 <Hiato> ok, gonna try fibonnacci quick :)
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21:27:18 <ihope> 11, 12, 122, 12211, 1221121, 1221121221, 122112122122112, 12211212212211211221211
21:28:37 <tusho_> ihope: reverse look and say?
21:29:39 <ihope> For the purposes of look and say?
21:29:51 <Hiato> +ll+ll+ll+ll+ll+ll+aa[lx+ac-cc+bd-dd[bx-bb+cc]bx+ca-aa[dx-cc-dd]dx+cb-bb]lx
21:30:50 <Hiato> im using a = a + b; b = a - b
21:31:18 <ihope> 12211 means one of the first thing, two of the second thing, two of the first thing, one of the second thing, one of the first thing.
21:31:36 <ihope> In this case, the first thing and the second thing are 1 and 2.
21:32:48 <ihope> expand1 ('1':xs) = '1' : expand2 xs; expand1 ('2':xs) = '1' : '1' : expand2 xs; expand1 [] = []; expand2 is the same thing except with 1 and 2 swapped on the RHS.
21:33:05 <oklopol> Hiato: dunno, making my own too
21:33:21 <Hiato> lets see what happens :)
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21:36:05 <Hiato> oklopol, please link to your tokenizer :)
21:37:42 <oklopol> wait, my connection is extremely slow
21:37:55 <Hiato> think I found my problem though :)
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21:38:34 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p452542222.txt
21:42:17 <Hiato> but it happens with repeating -
21:42:22 <Hiato> checking it out now though
21:42:37 <Hiato> for both our benefits:P
21:42:49 <oklopol> btw. make it ignore whitespace
21:47:21 <Hiato> now for the whitespace....
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21:48:55 <Hiato> how do you define a set?
21:49:07 <Hiato> as in if bleh is in ['a'..'z']
21:49:58 <Hiato> heh, it was an example :P
21:50:42 <oklopol> Hiato: ready soon??? YOU'RE IN A HURRY!
21:50:52 <Hiato> set doesn't work like you said
21:51:00 <Hiato> that's the bane of my existence right now
21:51:10 <Hiato> but the stupid whitespace....
21:51:16 <Hiato> while n[k] not in set('+','-','[',']'): k+= 1
21:51:18 <oklopol> did i say something about set's behavior?
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21:52:33 <Hiato> while n[k] not in set(['+','-','[',']']): k+= 1
21:52:57 <Hiato> it seems to loop forever...
21:53:56 <oklopol> you might have whitespace in the end or smth
21:55:06 <Hiato> while (n[k] not in set(['+','-','[',']'])) and (k<len(n)-1): k+= 1
21:55:31 <Hiato> either way it doesn't work
21:56:31 <oklopol> hit your python with a stick
21:56:41 <Hiato> I'll give you the code
21:56:42 <oklopol> you might have it in the wrong place or something similar
21:56:45 <Hiato> that otherwise works
21:57:12 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/1AiAKp78.html
21:59:03 <oklopol> btw. n=filter(lambda a:not a.isspace(),n)
21:59:13 <Hiato> oh, and oklopol, you're interpreter dies on ll ll ll ll ll ll aa lx accc bdddbx ccbb bxcaaadx cc dd dxcbbb lx
21:59:21 <Hiato> correction "ll ll ll ll ll ll aa lx accc bdddbx ccbb bxcaaadx cc dd dxcbbb lx"
21:59:41 <oklopol> i see multiple adjacent spaces as one
21:59:42 <Hiato> well, I'll use that, thanks :)
21:59:50 <tusho_> Hiato: it's good that you're getting away from delphi - we can actually try your stuff :P
22:00:05 <Hiato> heh, thanks tusho_ if that's a compliment
22:00:26 <tusho_> replace your spaces with _
22:00:31 <oklopol> Hiato: i see a__b as a_b, where _ = space
22:00:35 <tusho_> your interp dies on ll_____________ll_________ll
22:01:10 <Hiato> aha, well, there's your problem
22:01:20 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
22:01:25 <tusho_> Hiato: ... just repeat what you said
22:01:27 <tusho_> <Hiato> correction "ll ll ll ll ll ll aa lx accc bdddbx ccbb bxcaaadx cc dd dxcbbb lx"
22:01:29 <Hiato> oklopol, whitespace here is as much a part of the programme as the varibales
22:01:35 <tusho_> it's just his irc client
22:01:45 <oklopol> Hiato: asdfkjasodjfasiodjf
22:01:48 <oklopol> tusho_ can speak on my behalf.
22:02:31 <tusho_> oklopol: i've always tried to understand what people say and restate when I see confusion
22:02:37 <tusho_> most people respond with 'are you SURE that's what he meant??!!!'
22:02:43 <Hiato> http://rafb.net/p/GZBVQk93.html
22:02:45 <tusho_> yes I'm sure damnit, I can actually comprehend english unlike you!
22:02:52 <oklopol> tusho_: me too, but after doing it a million times, i just don't feel like it :)
22:02:53 <Hiato> oklopol, if you run it, it yields the output :)
22:03:16 <Hiato> which should be the fib sequence, but isn't
22:04:25 <Hiato> Go(Thingy('+aa+aa[ax+bb-aa]ax'))
22:04:28 <Hiato> performs as expected
22:05:42 <oklopol> [34, 21, 0, 0, 21, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
22:06:18 <oklopol> +aa+bb+cc+cc+cc+cc+cc+cc+cc[cd+ea-ee[ad+bb-aa]ad+ab-aa+be-bb-cc]cd
22:06:34 <Hiato> I think my interps wrong though
22:07:11 <Hiato> my interpreter is befuged ;)
22:07:20 <Hiato> please test my input :P
22:07:26 -!- ais523 has quit ("rebooting my Internet connection").
22:08:07 <Hiato> that came with thingy
22:08:16 <oklopol> [-57, -60, -56, -62, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
22:08:18 <oklopol> [-58, -60, -56, -62, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
22:08:18 <oklopol> [-58, -60, -56, -62, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
22:08:31 <Hiato> if you have the patience...
22:08:38 -!- ais523 has joined.
22:09:24 <oklopol> the +ca after the loop -> +ac
22:09:33 <oklopol> i'll just fix as i think it should be and try
22:09:42 <Hiato> ok, cool, thanks :)
22:11:11 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:12:24 <Slereah5> It better have all the solutions of life!
22:12:38 <oklopol> +ll+ll+ll+ll+ll+ll+aa[lx+ca-cc+db-dd[bx+cc-bb]bx+ac-aa[dx-cc-dd]dx+bc-bb-ll]lx
22:12:50 <oklopol> thought you were using c for looping
22:13:15 <Hiato> thanks for that :D
22:13:23 <Hiato> my interp is still messed though
22:13:47 <oklopol> well you have fun with that, i feel i've done my share for the day now :P
22:14:16 <Hiato> thank you for all your help :D
22:14:29 <Hiato> would be nowhere now, without you :)
22:15:00 <oklopol> tusho_: yes i eat now nom nom
22:15:12 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"").
22:15:24 -!- ais523 has joined.
22:15:25 <tusho_> oklopol: NOW MY OTHER FINGER
22:15:38 <oklopol> nom cool now to be eating nomnomnom
22:17:44 <Hiato> meh closer, but still just not quite :P
22:23:47 <Hiato> well, I now bid you adieu gentlemen. Thank you for all your assistance, it has been a most interesting evening, and I have learnt much in the ways of python. Goodnight and goodbye
22:24:51 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
22:25:53 -!- Phenax has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:26:19 -!- Phenax has joined.
22:39:01 <Slereah5> Are there solutions to the exercizes in ill urine?
22:55:23 <Slereah5> You'll never make me think that you have a poetic soul!
22:56:56 <augur> im planting a garden
22:58:10 <oerjan> u r in a lot of trouble
22:58:51 <Slereah5> You don't just toy around with vegetables in America.
22:58:56 <oerjan> ais523: hint: what's the most likely reason for me to speak on this forum?
22:59:14 <ais523> oerjan: not entirely sure
22:59:23 <ais523> normally when someone has a maths problem and asks you for help
22:59:36 <oerjan> it begins with p, ends with n and has a u in the middle
22:59:48 <ais523> oerjan: ah, I never noticed
23:01:01 <ais523> Slereah5: that u isn't in the middle
23:01:27 <Slereah5> But the most important part is, the n isn't in the end
23:03:21 <ihope> Wonderfully pnumatic.
23:04:37 * olsner is out of fermented milk products with which to scare oerjan away
23:05:02 <oerjan> olsner: i'm sure something fishy will work just as well
23:05:20 <oerjan> oklopol: u r in - urine
23:06:12 <oklopol> i thought it was @ augur though, i guess that was largely the reason
23:06:49 * oerjan generally stays away from garden work
23:09:15 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"").
23:12:24 -!- kar8ng1 has left (?).
23:18:38 <tusho_> The eso-std.org forum is up.
23:18:46 <tusho_> as well as the repository viewer
23:19:55 <tusho_> Slereah5: Heh, it's actually running on kareha
23:22:00 <tusho_> Slereah5: If you can find it, YOU WIN
23:23:24 <lament> esoteric sexually transmitted diseases?
23:23:38 <tusho_> lament: you've made that joke before, I believe
23:27:36 <tusho_> Slereah5: The first post on the eso-std forum is copypasta. I bet you'll look now. :P
23:30:23 * tusho_ reloads eso-std forum tomorrow and comments: "Oh look, someone is very interested in 'DESU', it seems."
23:32:01 <tusho_> Slereah5: Jeez, it takes like 3 seconds to find it. :P
23:33:15 <tusho_> Slereah5: SOMEWHERE ON ESO-STD.ORG
23:33:19 <tusho_> EITHER A SUBDOMAIN OR A DIRECTORY
23:34:18 <tusho_> Slereah5: Or a subdomain
23:34:48 <Slereah5> But why did you pick the ugly same thing as the old eso forum?
23:35:36 <tusho_> Slereah5: Because it's anonymous forum software.
23:35:46 <tusho_> Click one of the 'Board look:' links.
23:37:26 <tusho_> Slereah5: well that was an interesting 3GET
23:37:37 <Slereah5> Well, Futaba reminds me of home.
23:39:07 * oerjan recommends against shedding teratears
23:39:27 <tusho_> because gets are all about ego anyway!
23:39:48 <tusho_> IF YOU WILL, notice that all my other posts are anonymous
23:40:47 <Slereah5> Use the power of the real Futaba!
23:40:57 <Slereah5> So that you can post the Lazy Bird logo.
23:41:21 <ihope> The power of the real he futed?
23:41:46 <tusho_> Slereah5: I can enable image posting.
23:41:51 <tusho_> But I doubt that would further eso discussions.
23:41:58 <tusho_> Also, if I used the real Futaba, that'd be in japanese.
23:42:02 <Slereah5> I also doubt that there will be actual discussion.
23:42:33 <tusho_> Slereah5: Suprisingly, anonymous text boards don't instantly imply spam unless you're trying to make them.
23:42:57 <tusho_> For one, me and ais523 will definately be using it, and I imagine other people finding the site will leave something too if neccessary.
23:43:10 <tusho_> Slereah5: I'd love to hear an idea for a lovely and productive first post :P
23:43:17 <ihope> Seems forums should be based on a transparent, anonymous reputation system.
23:43:24 <Slereah5> There's already an identical board
23:43:27 <tusho_> Using it for discussion about ESO standards, Slereah5
23:43:41 <tusho_> ESO standards and projects (e.g. pastebin and code runner etc) != esolangs.org
23:43:51 <Slereah5> It's the same group of people.
23:43:52 <tusho_> ihope: That's placing the emphasis back on the people, not the content.
23:44:22 <tusho_> Slereah5: So, uh, what, just because the membership is a subset that means we should spam the esolangs.org board with our crap? I think not.
23:44:35 <tusho_> 'The online esolang runner fails with INTERCAL on this program:' is not exactly a useful post on esolangs.org
23:45:07 <ihope> tusho_: well, it's easier to ask whether what a person has posted in the past was well-received than to ask whether a certain post was well-received in the past, no?
23:45:26 <tusho_> ihope: Well, yes, but people can be unknowledgable on one subject and knowledgable about another.
23:45:33 <tusho_> If there's incorrect information, someone will point it out.
23:45:48 <tusho_> If there's someone trolling in a very similar way, the admins and mods will be able to ban them.
23:47:17 <ihope> But then they'll be banned only from that site, and will be able to go on to spam other things.
23:47:35 <tusho_> ihope: Well there's not one unified cabal of the www.
23:47:43 <tusho_> Or at least, that's what they want you to think.
23:47:47 <tusho_> Everything is on a per-site basis, of coruse.
23:48:12 <ihope> Some way to tell that a person's behaved badly on other web sites might be nice.
23:48:32 <Slereah5> YOU ARE BANNED FROM THE INTERNET
23:48:38 <tusho_> You can just blab crap about them.
23:48:44 <tusho_> Besides, what if they behaved badly, but then improved?
23:48:47 <tusho_> Content, not people, etc.
23:49:03 <Slereah5> Also some people just troll in certain areas
23:49:09 <tusho_> (blab crap about them = you can say 'THIS PERSON TROLLED!!!' when it's not true)
23:49:15 <ihope> Well, we can ignore the sites that tend to blab crap.
23:49:17 <tusho_> (and nobody can prove you wrong, of course, since it's anonymous)
23:49:23 <tusho_> ihope: What if it's just one person?
23:49:29 <tusho_> Anyway, if they blab crap on the new site, then it's dealt with.
23:49:42 <tusho_> So you don't need to notify.
23:49:49 <ihope> If a site blabs crap only once? Either it rarely blabs crap or it rarely blabs.
23:54:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
23:57:36 <ihope> tusho_: I apologize for tusho_'s unusual greeting.
23:57:52 <tusho_> ihope: no, that was serious
23:58:29 -!- tusho_ has changed nick to tusho.
23:58:38 <oerjan> it's GreaseMonkey, run away!