00:02:18 <tusho> oh sheesh, he's actually _here_
00:14:29 <tusho> Slereah5: It's super effective! GreaseMonkey dies.
00:15:18 <Slereah5> This seems a little too lame to quite.
00:15:19 <tusho> GreaseMonkey: No, sorry.
00:15:27 <tusho> Slereah5: We're talking about GreaseMonkey, unfortunately.
00:16:20 <tusho> Slereah5: Something like that.
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00:52:47 <ihope> What you say three times is true.
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00:55:48 <tusho> "what you say three times" is tue
00:56:06 <lament> what you say three times is grue.
00:56:28 <ihope> It was bleen before, but now it's grue.
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01:09:46 <augur> the naive haskell definition is so simple
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01:10:12 <lament> that's pretty simple :)
01:10:25 <augur> pset x:xs = (map (\y . x ++ y) (pset xs)) ++ (pset xs)
01:10:31 <augur> i realized this like 20 minutes ago
01:10:44 <augur> obviously, this only works for ordered lists ;)
01:10:54 <augur> but who needs proper sets when lists work just as well
01:11:59 <lament> pset x:xs = pset xs ++ map (x:) $ pset x
01:12:07 <lament> pset x:xs = pset xs ++ map (x:) $ pset xs
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01:12:43 <augur> i wasnt sure if : would work the way i wanted it to, nor do i know what $ does. :D
01:12:47 <lament> but there's a better way to do that
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01:13:30 <augur> the definition the haskellians showed me was something like
01:13:46 <augur> filterM (const [True,False])
01:13:58 <augur> being the definition of powersetM
01:17:34 <augur> i dont even understand that one :D
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01:27:45 <olsner> ah, that one's beautiful
01:28:41 <olsner> it uses the non-deterministic choice monad to try every assignment of true or false to the elements of the list, then for each assignment keeps the elements that got True using filter
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01:29:08 <tusho> olsner: err, doesn't it just use the LIST MONAD?
01:29:13 <tusho> same thing, but ;)
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01:32:37 -!- tusho has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | TODAY'S TOPIC: eso-std.org now actually SERVES CONTENT at http://forum.eso-std.org/. Website code stuff is at http://code.eso-std.org/ if you care. Next up: pastebin, etc. Tomorrow. SHAMELESS ADVERT END!.
01:33:40 <tusho> while you people spam that lovely thing, I am now about to sleep.
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01:46:44 <olsner> this is awesome, but probably not conductive to constructive disucssion until everyone gets over that it looks like /b/ but doesn't have gore and lolis
01:47:34 <olsner> plus, the forum needs a larger selection of anonymous nick names
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01:57:55 <augur> apparently in haskell
01:57:58 <augur> theres something called a quand
01:58:08 <augur> i swear, if haskell isn't an esolang
01:58:17 <augur> then it's naming conventions are
01:58:57 <olsner> coquand is a person :P
01:59:01 * ihope throws a comonad at augur
01:59:54 <olsner> it's an in-joke in the haskell word that anything that begins with "co" is actually the dual of the word you get when you remove co-
01:59:59 <augur> catamorphisms, anamorphisms homomorphisms, heteromorphisms, bimorphisms, transmorphisms, lesbomorphisms...
02:00:05 <olsner> i.e. coffee = co-ffee, etc
02:00:29 <ihope> So is caine the biologically inactive optical isomer?
02:00:58 <olsner> (and inversely, that any everyday concept has a dual named by adding co- to it ... such as cominds, cobrains)
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02:01:53 <oerjan> ihope: it's not inactive, it turns you into a vampire!
02:02:22 <augur> would that mean that normal cocaine turns you into a covampire?
02:02:30 <ihope> No, covampires turn you into cocaine.
02:02:59 <ihope> But you have to snuff (or whatever the term is) them, of course, which is difficult.
02:03:16 <oerjan> no, they turn you into cocaine and then snuff you
02:03:17 <augur> would you snuff caine and cosnuff cocaine?
02:03:42 <ihope> Oh, right. If a covampire cosnuffs you, you turn into cocaine.
02:03:52 <ihope> Actually, if a covampire cosnuffs cocaine, it turns into you.
02:04:06 <augur> wouldnt it coturn?
02:04:28 <ihope> Covampire coa cointo coyou coturns coit. Are you happy now?
02:04:40 <augur> no but i am cohappy!
02:04:57 <ihope> I knew you were going to say that. :-P
02:05:27 * ihope is coslapped by augur
02:05:31 <oerjan> this discussion is some medy
02:05:41 <ihope> (Which is roughly the same as me slapping you, I'm sure.)
02:05:47 <augur> no, this discussing is CO-.. oh.
02:06:00 * olsner is counderstanding coeverything
02:06:30 <oerjan> olsner: that's because we're so good at mmunication
02:07:13 <ihope> So what does Haskell de look like?
02:07:24 * oerjan wishes he had some a to drink
02:07:42 * ihope joins #haskell.de, but finds only lambdabot
02:07:56 <augur> cohaskell od colooks colike cothis:
02:08:00 * ihope gives it a @snack and leaves
02:08:14 <augur> fac n = n * fac (n-1)
02:08:23 <augur> or if you want a sexier example, the map function is
02:08:41 <olsner> you may be looking for #haskell
02:08:44 * oerjan suspects ihope knows haskell
02:08:47 <augur> map f x:xs = (f x) : (map f xs)
02:09:01 <oerjan> must be a vague corecall
02:09:33 * oerjan points out you need parentheses around x:xs
02:09:34 -!- Def has changed nick to deformative.
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02:09:41 <olsner> and in f x : map f xs, the parens are extraneous
02:10:00 <oerjan> hm maybe that's rrect for de, then
02:10:35 <olsner> no, it's correct ... but for pattern matching, the form without parens is rrect
02:10:55 <augur> i prefer to be explicit with my parens :P
02:11:22 * ihope gives the ol' ((map f) (x:xs)) = ((f x) : ((map f) xs)) argument
02:11:55 <ihope> The only prefix pun I can think of now is the opposite of gigantic being nanontic.
02:12:11 <augur> well, i dont know about parens on the left but
02:12:53 <oerjan> those were what i was worrying about
02:13:42 <ihope> And then everything from yottatic to yoctotic. And in the very middle, ntic, for something of an exactly ordinary size.
02:14:16 <oerjan> apparently (map f) (x:xs) = ((f x) : ((map f) xs)) is legal
02:14:51 <ihope> They're what you get nic sections from.
02:15:11 <oerjan> surely you mean cosections
02:15:41 <oerjan> (which btw is an existing term)
02:17:08 <ihope> Let's make an esolang called Mecofrom, then. Make everything actually have a complement.
02:17:42 <ihope> That would be the identity.
02:19:15 <olsner> hmm, so you'd have something like a co- operator (cooperator :P) that complements the meaning of any program given as an argument?
02:19:51 <ihope> Every instruction has a complement, every set of instructions has a complement.
02:20:18 <ihope> The complement of a list of instructions is its coinstructions, run... sideways!
02:21:22 <ihope> Though that would kind of actually be the instructions run i times, wouldn't it?
02:21:53 <augur> i think that co-instructions should run sideways in time.
02:22:15 <ihope> That would be fun.
02:22:15 <augur> e.g., they run in co-time
02:22:27 <olsner> mmm, a complex time programming language, that'd be awesome
02:22:35 <ihope> It means, of course, that a co-co-instruction is actually the instruction in reverse.
02:22:37 <augur> well, not complex-time
02:22:40 <augur> just two time dimensions
02:23:03 <augur> because if we have complex time
02:23:06 <augur> we also need mplex time
02:23:07 <ihope> Mm, I just want to take every mathematical concept and make it into a programming language :-)
02:23:21 <olsner> http://imagechan.com/img/5569/Unexplainable/
02:23:32 <augur> and them complex cotime and mplex cotime on top cotime
02:24:16 <olsner> hmm, maybe just keep it to time and cotime then :P
02:24:42 <augur> unless its cocoa-time in which case you get a cup of hot chocolate.
02:24:59 <augur> that should be in the spec:
02:25:34 <augur> co-cotime always evaluates to the same as time, but cocoa-time will produce a cup of hot chocolate for the programmer.
02:25:52 <ihope> Hmm, now I want a programming language based on topology.
02:26:11 <oerjan> you're all a bunch of coconuts!
02:26:53 <ihope> I leave in protest.
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02:27:48 <augur> coconuts are just normal nuts
02:28:11 <oerjan> and a normal nut is a contradiction in terms
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02:28:58 <augur> therefore coconuts do not exist
02:29:09 <edwardk> well, they are just nuts ;)
02:29:25 <edwardk> I always thought coco puffs should just be puffs anyways ;)
02:29:30 <oerjan> edwardk: you didn't see the whole proof
02:30:03 <augur> i told #haskell about it
02:30:08 <augur> now THEYRE talking in co-everything
02:32:36 <augur> i think co should not be distributive
02:32:57 <augur> so co-X co-Y != co-(X Y)
02:33:12 <augur> thus there would be 8 cases
02:33:25 <oerjan> well it depends how you combine X and Y
02:33:48 <oerjan> co-(X op Y) = co-X co-op co-Y
02:34:40 <augur> so you distributed and do co-operators on co-operands
02:34:59 <edwardk> I'm not sure how those would cooperate
02:35:23 <oerjan> note that you can take this as the _definition_ of co-op
02:36:13 <augur> that looks a LOT like the inverse of the product of two matrices
02:36:33 <augur> (AxB)^-1 == B^-1 x A^-1
02:36:50 <augur> that == A^-1 x^-1 B^-1
02:38:04 <augur> so maybe the co-matrix of a matrix is its inverse, and the co-product of two matrices is the the product of the matrices in the opposite order?
02:38:06 <oerjan> also deMorgan's laws are very similar
02:38:23 <augur> omg are we seriously going to make Mecofrom?
02:38:45 <augur> if deMorgans laws look similar enough, maybe we could find some even more fundamental way in which they're the same
02:39:03 <augur> and then use that to define co-x
02:39:33 <augur> where x is anything
02:39:40 <oerjan> augur: note that there is another matrix candidate for the co-matrix, the conjugate transpose
02:40:23 <augur> but does it have the beautiful symmetry as (AB)^-1 has?
02:40:50 <olsner> deMorgan's is !(A*B) = !A | !B ... so, if you have co(*) = |, that's just distribution of co- over the subexpressions of an expression
02:41:31 <augur> oerjan: whats conjugate transpose?
02:41:34 <oerjan> these are all duality constructions
02:42:02 <augur> so can we find some fundamental similarity between these things?
02:42:07 <oerjan> augur: for transpose, you switch rows and columns
02:42:10 <augur> aside from just visual similarity?
02:42:26 <olsner> otoh, there are other ways to define co of boolean and (such as nand, where the truth table is simply complemented)
02:42:30 <augur> i think we've stumbled on to a branch of mathematics that his as yet unexplored!
02:42:34 <augur> perhaps even important! :o
02:42:43 <oerjan> conjugate means if there is an imaginary part, you negate it
02:43:08 <oerjan> augur: certainly not, dualities are old hat
02:43:27 <augur> we need to look into them more
02:43:44 <augur> afk going to get icecream
02:43:55 <augur> or is it... co-icecream
02:44:47 <edwardk> Hrnm, so since you have coordinates, which means you need ordinates.
02:45:02 <oerjan> ordinate is a technical term
02:46:29 <edwardk> but how i have yet to see how the this coconstruction preserves that relationship
02:46:41 <oerjan> and confusingly it's not the opposite of coordinate, but an example of it
02:47:28 <oerjan> the co- there is probably in the general sense of "together with"
02:48:07 <edwardk> yeah coz ordinate opposes abcissa as the set of coordinates in 2d =)
02:48:50 <oerjan> the categorical special use as a dual construction probably came out of generalizing a lot of co- names that fit that pattern, but not all do
02:49:01 <oerjan> cosine is another counterexample
02:50:42 <edwardk> er anyways as i was mentioning on #haskell, if you are both cartesian closed and co-(cartesian closed) (so you have coexponentials, etc), any reasonable semantics for your language will cause it to degenerate to a poset.
02:50:56 <edwardk> you wind up with too many laws to satisfy
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02:56:44 <olsner> so you need to strike som kind of balance between getting as many dualities as possible into the language while still not creating so many laws to satisfy that you can't make it TC
02:57:40 <edwardk> olsner: yeah, for instance Haskell is a closed cartesian category, but its not a co-CCC, it lacks an initial object even though it has a terminal object.
02:58:04 <edwardk> in general not every functor is costrong but every functor is strong, etc.
02:58:31 <edwardk> before you say that should be every cofunctor, functor = cofunctor ;)
03:00:45 <oerjan> hm laziness makes initial objects tricky - you always have bottom
03:00:58 <oerjan> even if you allow data Void
03:04:14 <edwardk> exactly. you need a total language to fill that crack
03:05:01 <edwardk> you need an uninhabited type so that you can have something such that coidr :: Either a Initial -> a
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04:13:58 <tusho> Rodgerthegreat: I would love to know how you equate the semantics of the eso "forum" (as you put it) with 4chan.
04:14:23 <tusho> Also, that post was made by slereah as a joke.
04:16:21 <tusho> 4chan was the first anonymous board, ever, and it proves that all anonymous boards, ever, are just like it. Riiiiight.
04:17:03 <tusho> there's also the thing that 4chan is, you know, an _imageboard_
04:17:32 <RodgerTheGreat> tusho: you seem frightfully offended at being compared to 4chan
04:17:38 <tusho> it does not look similar unless you select the futaba style
04:17:52 <tusho> it's just incorrect
04:18:34 <tusho> and to offer incorrect reasoning for the audience being inferior is something I wish to correct.
04:20:01 <tusho> As for your last point, tripcodes are a simple way to offer identification on an anonymous board. Besides the SW was there and it already had them, so I see no negatives.
04:21:36 <augur> oh my god what the hell were you guys talking about!? x_x
04:22:14 <tusho> or "crap" if you prefer
04:23:40 <tusho> positive :: a -> p a
04:24:04 <tusho> happy :: p a -> (a -> p b) -> p b
04:24:23 <tusho> fulfilled :: String -> p a
04:25:09 <tusho> Perhaps since its 4:23 am.
04:25:13 <augur> your haskell function stuff killed me
04:25:30 <augur> positive == return, happy == fmap?
04:26:01 <augur> oh right right sorry
04:26:14 <augur> happy is fmap i think
04:27:16 <tusho> btw. iPhone touchpads are things I still have not gotten the hang of.
04:27:25 <tusho> I'm at an ok speed though.
04:27:55 <tusho> (it is of course what I am typing on now)
04:27:58 <augur> happy has to be fmap
04:28:06 <augur> because >>= is m (m a) -> m a
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04:29:32 <augur> fmap is (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
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04:29:46 <augur> fmap is (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
04:30:16 <augur> god, its so confusing
04:30:36 <tusho> augur- comonads are fun:
04:30:49 <augur> shut up shut up shut up :P
04:31:02 <tusho> coreturn :: c a -> a
04:31:16 <augur> omg what does that even mean X_X
04:31:39 <tusho> cobind :: a -> (c a -> c b) -> b
04:32:00 <tusho> augur- monads are hard to unwrap
04:32:15 <tusho> comonads are hard to wrap instead
04:32:54 <augur> i dont even know wtf any of this means T_T
04:33:21 <tusho> oh well. Anyone have any words before I go?
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04:35:04 <augur> quasiconformal comonaquandad
05:14:00 <edwardk> there are tons of comonads actually =)
05:14:18 <edwardk> not that i'm particularly biased about the topic
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08:44:19 <augur> so i learned about haskell's filterM having multiple valid filtered return values today
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10:29:53 <oklopol> what would you suggest for learning perl?
10:30:29 <oklopol> hmm... i guess i should actually try using it
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14:07:19 <AnMaster> has anyone tried to use TeX as a macroprocessor for anything else than typesetting?
14:09:35 <Slereah5> For the - how will it work for moar than one variable if Scheme does not accept feeding only one variable :o
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16:13:05 <Slereah6> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Recursion&redirect=no
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17:31:41 <Slereah> Remember this? (mu (lambda (x) (f x y z)) 0)
17:32:14 <Slereah> But how will it work, since Scheme does not accept to be fed undefined variables? D:
17:32:36 <Slereah> I tried, but he wants every variable, and he wants actual objects!
17:32:39 <tusho> Slereah: Well presumably 'y' and 'z' are defined.
17:32:44 <tusho> Here is what I mean.
17:32:50 <tusho> mu_y(f(1,2,y,3,4))
17:32:57 <tusho> (mu (lambda (y) (f 1 2 y 3 4)) 0)
17:33:09 <tusho> So, you only need single-arg mu, as it is.
17:33:15 <AnMaster> <Slereah6> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Recursion&redirect=no
17:33:23 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> has anyone tried to use TeX as a macroprocessor for anything else than typesetting?
17:33:33 <tusho> it doesn't work well.
17:33:41 <AnMaster> well it would be very esoteric
17:33:49 <tusho> AnMaster: Well, yeah -- someone wrote an IRC bot in PostScript.
17:33:57 <tusho> But, you know, it's not useful or anything.
17:34:07 <tusho> AnMaster: TeX is TC, it's just not nice like PS.
17:34:13 <AnMaster> I mean using TeX as a macroprocessor in order to do something else
17:34:20 <AnMaster> after all you could use it to generate C code
17:34:23 <tusho> It can't output to stdout, can it?
17:34:31 <tusho> You could make it typeset a C program that it generates, though.
17:34:32 <Slereah> See what he says about the function
17:34:33 <tusho> That would be fun.
17:34:39 <AnMaster> tusho, because I run some interactive TeX programs
17:34:48 <tusho> AnMaster: Sounds like an abomination.
17:34:57 <tusho> An affront against all that is holy, even.
17:34:59 <AnMaster> tusho, a TeX program that asked questions and generated a natbib style file
17:35:11 <tusho> p.s. I hereby Swhack AnMaster.
17:35:14 * tusho watches him squirm
17:35:22 <AnMaster> p. s. I don't play ircnomic any more
17:35:48 <tusho> AnMaster: I was trying to irritate you because it wasn't IN ALL CAPS
17:36:01 <tusho> Also, we suffusioned a while back and started writing actual rules, and have an actual Tracker.
17:36:10 <tusho> We don't have Swhacks any more though, I think it's been dead for a few days.
17:36:19 <tusho> Well, for significantly long days.
17:36:31 <tusho> Like, days that last 3.
17:37:19 <AnMaster> http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/custom-bib/
17:37:29 <tusho> AnMaster: IS IT THERE
17:37:47 <AnMaster> tusho, the interactive LaTeX program
17:37:59 <AnMaster> 1. Run TeX (or LaTeX) on makebst.ins (--> makebst.tex)
17:37:59 <AnMaster> 2. Run TeX (or LaTeX) on makebst.tex to start customizing
17:37:59 <AnMaster> your own .bst file. Select merlin as the master file (default) when
17:37:59 <AnMaster> asked. (I have other master files for my own purposes.)
17:38:11 <tusho> AnMaster: By the way, I'm talking to you from the console.
17:38:17 <tusho> I am browsing the web in w3m. X is unstable. :P
17:38:29 <AnMaster> well I got nothing against irssi or similar
17:38:34 <AnMaster> anyway you can just use ftp...
17:38:47 <AnMaster> You can get this entire directory bundled as custom-bib.zip.
17:38:51 <AnMaster> http://www.ctan.org/get/macros/latex/contrib/custom-bib.zip
17:39:00 <AnMaster> tusho, download it and have a look if you want
17:39:23 <AnMaster> ah I think it is http://www.ctan.org/get/macros/latex/contrib/custom-bib/makebst.tex
17:39:31 <AnMaster> \def\ask#1#2{\mes{#2}\read\ttyin to #1\ifx#1\defpar\def#1{}\else
17:39:31 <AnMaster> \edef#1{\expandafter\remblk#1@@}\fi}
17:39:54 <AnMaster> \def\wr#1{\immediate\write\outfile{#1}}
17:40:15 <tusho> i think there's a good argument that tex shouldn't ahve that
17:40:27 <tusho> it's not particularly useful, that abomination should probably be a C file that hooks into TeX
17:40:36 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:40:36 <AnMaster> tusho, well it is rather natural to write a program to generate a LaTeX style file, in LaTeX
17:40:37 -!- Slereah7 has joined.
17:40:39 <tusho> people seem to have a fetish for making things be able to use stdin/out and files and all that crap
17:40:44 <tusho> no matter what the purpose of the language
17:40:57 <tusho> AnMaster: .c is pretty portable.
17:41:07 <AnMaster> while this program will work on any platform you can use the result on
17:41:20 <tusho> AnMaster: Or you could use Knuth's Pascal dialect that TeX is written in.
17:41:28 <tusho> But, to be honest, C is pretty fcking portable
17:41:29 <AnMaster> tusho, sure, but is C really that good for this? This is a job for a script
17:41:43 <tusho> AnMaster: TeX is a more horrific scripting language than C...
17:41:45 <AnMaster> but this is IMO a job for a script
17:41:52 <tusho> and a TeX program is not a script
17:41:56 <AnMaster> note that I didn't code this however
17:41:58 <tusho> Therefore, C would be the best choice given the parameters.
17:42:06 <tusho> It's either TeX or C or KnuthPascal.
17:42:09 <AnMaster> tusho, however you got to agree it is portable to every platform that can run TeX?
17:42:12 <tusho> The last one makes you insane.
17:42:20 <tusho> The first one makes other people think you're insane.
17:42:23 <tusho> The middle one is pretty sane.
17:42:24 <Slereah7> tusho : Well, it's always nice to be able to see if it works!
17:42:24 <Slereah7> And it's a nice way to check it
17:42:34 <AnMaster> tusho, but agree it is rather esoteric?
17:42:39 <tusho> AnMaster: Nowadays TeX is translated into C to be compiled
17:42:45 <AnMaster> Slereah7, this is a serious application
17:42:45 <tusho> so, C would basically work on everything TeX works
17:42:51 <tusho> apart from machines from the 70s!
17:43:00 <AnMaster> tusho, and do we care about those? YES WE DO
17:43:07 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:43:08 * AnMaster has gone insane with backward compatiblity
17:43:08 <tusho> Every program should be like C-INTERCAL.
17:43:15 <AnMaster> since I started coding on crossfire
17:43:25 <AnMaster> crossfire is a MMORPG, the FIRST MMORPG
17:43:37 <tusho> AnMaster: you were horrified when you saw ais523 coding for DOS compatibility
17:43:45 <AnMaster> so LOTS and LOTS of backward compatiblity
17:43:51 <tusho> 1992 ain't that ancient
17:44:00 <AnMaster> tusho, yes well, crossfire was *nix mostly and later windows too
17:44:15 <tusho> AnMaster: hm, before I start X and give way to unpredictable system behaviour, I think I'll code a c program.
17:44:30 <tusho> Hmm...which to do...I think wc(1).
17:44:35 <tusho> Maybe a simple fortune(1).
17:44:48 <AnMaster> 1992 is old enough to result in a lot of #ifdef for odd systems no longer in use
17:44:49 <tusho> And I'll code it with vi(1), of course.
17:45:04 <AnMaster> sprintf(buffer, untrusteddata);M
17:45:24 <AnMaster> anyway that should be 1) snprintf, 2) have a format string like %s
17:45:34 <tusho> AnMaster: snprintf is not portable
17:45:37 <AnMaster> I fixed quite a few crash bugs
17:45:50 <AnMaster> tusho, C99, and we got a #ifndef HAVE_SNPRINTF
17:45:52 <tusho> however, I do believe the incantation you gave there should be a strcpy! :P
17:46:20 <tusho> AnMaster: see, making it snprintf and adding the formatting string is a very stupid kind of programming
17:46:26 <tusho> "this code has an issue, let's fix that issue"
17:46:40 <tusho> "this code has an issue, what is it trying to do? let's write what it's trying to do, properly"
17:46:49 <AnMaster> and we got our own version of that
17:48:01 <AnMaster> and iirc we got an insecure tmpfile that is 1) predictable 2) bad performance 3) got race conditions
17:48:17 <AnMaster> (as in later today, a bit busy atm)
17:48:33 <tusho> AnMaster: have you seen the ESO proto-site? :P
17:48:40 <tusho> most of yesterday was setting up apache, so not a lot happened
17:48:44 <AnMaster> tusho, hm that forum? took a quick look
17:48:55 <tusho> AnMaster: was it still filled with spam at the time?
17:49:08 <AnMaster> don't remember, just looked at the git repo
17:49:14 <tusho> i wiped all that due to the general uselessness of it all
17:49:20 <tusho> AnMaster: wait, did you look at the git repo or the forum? :P
17:49:32 <tusho> AnMaster: as in spam for our dear #esoteric
17:49:38 <tusho> spam, well, pointless posts.
17:49:48 <AnMaster> tusho, the forum code in the git repo, through the cgit web interface
17:49:56 <tusho> e.g. Slereah put some copypasta on because the Futaba style reminded him of /b/ (heh)
17:50:02 <tusho> which was alright, because it was just once
17:50:14 <tusho> but then Rodger went on complaining about the fact that it was an anonymous BBS
17:50:29 <tusho> and then someone, seeing this and deciding they might as well go the whole way, posted a topic trying to get to 1000GET
17:50:31 <AnMaster> tusho, that forum, is it just me, or does it look like a cross of moinmoin wiki software and a forum?
17:50:42 <tusho> AnMaster: it's an anonymous BBS
17:50:50 <tusho> read the header at the top, it's a brief explanation
17:50:59 <tusho> but it does look quite similar
17:51:03 <tusho> there's a Board look: line
17:51:07 <tusho> if you have JS enabled you can choose some styles
17:51:27 <AnMaster> ah I don't use a js enabled browser atm
17:51:41 <AnMaster> "Board look: Blue Moon" haha I read that as "Blue Moroon"
17:51:44 <tusho> AnMaster: they're also available as Alternate Stylesheets
17:51:49 <tusho> if your browser supports selecting them
17:52:39 <AnMaster> just on most sites javascript cause a huge slowdown
17:52:40 <Slereah7> Apparently, is either defined as using "for all x", or returning a function.
17:53:11 <AnMaster> for example the site for the local newspaper loads in 4 seconds when I block ads and scripts, 10 if I just block ads, and 25 if I don't block either
17:53:23 <AnMaster> + it makes browser slow after too
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17:54:14 <AnMaster> Slereah7, is it just me or are the forum styles Pseud0ch and VIPPER the same?
17:54:41 -!- tusho has joined.
17:54:51 <AnMaster> tusho, what was the last you saw?
17:55:28 <AnMaster> I did say some important things, so what do I need to repaste
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17:56:41 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> tusho, what was the last you saw?
17:56:41 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> I did say some important things, so what do I need to repaste
17:56:47 <tusho> I'll check the logs.
17:57:37 <tusho> 09:54:14 <AnMaster> Slereah7, is it just me or are the forum styles Pseud0ch and VIPPER the same?
17:57:41 <tusho> VIPPER has bluer text
17:57:46 <tusho> and some other colours are subtly different
17:58:08 <AnMaster> tusho, and about the general moaning about javascript?
17:58:11 <tusho> AnMaster: But yeah, JS can be used for crap.
17:58:16 <tusho> Still, Kareha uses it quite elgantly.
17:58:27 <tusho> Although, I'm unsure if the deletion links work without it. Maybe.
17:58:34 <tusho> AnMaster: Yeah, it's open source and all that.
17:58:37 <tusho> (I didn't write it.)
17:59:10 <AnMaster> the delete link didn't work for me (I don't have javascript on atm)
17:59:18 <tusho> ok, you can't delete posts in kareha without JS, because the [Del] link is used to pop up a confirmation box. Of course, you can just manually do whatever it does, but.
17:59:22 <tusho> AnMaster: haha, I was just typing that
18:00:57 -!- tusho_ has joined.
18:00:57 -!- tusho has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:01:16 <tusho_> Anyway, yeah, it'd be nice if the delete worked without JS.
18:01:24 <tusho_> I'll probably send a patch off to !WAHa.06x36
18:02:11 <tusho_> AnMaster: Oh, and there will be a bot on eso-std.org soon that logs this channel actually reliably
18:02:15 <tusho_> and a web interface for searching it
18:02:22 <tusho_> which is something we lack right now, good log searching
18:02:30 <tusho_> (I'll also import all of tunes.org's old logs in to the system)
18:02:44 <AnMaster> also what is up with your connection?
18:03:37 -!- tusho_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:04:16 -!- tusho has joined.
18:04:21 <tusho> Stable machine never crashes.
18:04:32 <tusho> I heard nuttin' after "hm"
18:05:33 <tusho> And it's not my connection
18:05:37 <tusho> It's my machine, AnMaster! My machine!
18:05:45 <tusho> Specifically, my graphics card and its love affair with Linux: it has none.
18:05:54 <tusho> They fight a lot. And then the machine crashes.
18:06:03 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> also what is up with your connection?
18:06:03 <AnMaster> * tusho_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:06:15 <tusho> Yeah, I checked logs.
18:06:18 <tusho> that's why I said my connectoin
18:06:28 <AnMaster> I just read up to "<tusho> I heard nuttin' after "hm""
18:06:48 <AnMaster> 1) coding C 2) talking in this chan 3) talking elsewhere
18:07:17 <tusho> AnMaster: Want a WTFy algorithm?
18:08:46 <tusho> AnMaster: It is very WTFy.
18:09:13 <AnMaster> as long as it isn't in oklotalk or such ;P
18:09:37 -!- tusho has quit ("Leaving").
18:09:53 -!- tusho has joined.
18:10:01 <tusho> AnMaster: it wasn't
18:10:09 <tusho> Anyway, no, I'll tell it in pseudocode.
18:10:12 <tusho> Just so you can see how wtfy it is.
18:10:30 <tusho> AnMaster: It takes a string, and returns a string.
18:10:32 <tusho> Here's how it works:
18:10:45 <tusho> Convert the input into Shift-JIS (a common japanese character set).
18:11:05 <tusho> Replace the chars & < > " ' with & < > " ' (respectively)
18:11:15 <tusho> Generate another string:
18:11:24 <tusho> - Take the second and third characters of the input with 'H.' appended to it.
18:11:33 <tusho> - Replace any characters not between '.' and 'z' with '.'.
18:11:50 <AnMaster> between? as in the byte is between?
18:11:55 <tusho> - Replace any of the characters in :;<=>?@[\]^_` with the corresponding character from ABCDEFGabcdef
18:12:00 <tusho> AnMaster: Yes, according to Shift-JIS.
18:12:04 <tusho> And now, the final step:
18:12:30 <tusho> Call the crypt() function with the input (post-converting-and-mangling) and the other string we just generated as the salt.
18:12:37 <tusho> Then, take the last 10 characters of its result.
18:12:44 <tusho> AnMaster: _THAT_ is how you turn a tripcode key into the encoded form.
18:13:04 <tusho> AnMaster: read the top of eso-std.org's forum
18:13:21 <AnMaster> well I agree that the algorithm is quite wtf
18:13:29 <tusho> Anyway, the escaping of the characters into HTML entities is presumably a case of just misplacing your escapes: but that was in 1999, and we're stuck with it now
18:13:37 -!- Nocta has quit.
18:13:42 <tusho> The shift-jis thing is because, well, 2ch (the original anonymous board) is in Japanese.
18:13:55 <tusho> The salt thing, I have no idea. The 'H.' appending is to ensure a minimum size, I know that much.
18:14:05 <tusho> I think the replacing of characters for it is because of the range of crypt()
18:14:16 <tusho> The last 10 character thing is just so that the tripcodes are not too long.
18:14:37 <tusho> AnMaster: Thankfully, the resulting tripcodes aren't that obscure.
18:14:48 <AnMaster> well crypt() differs between systems don't it?
18:14:48 <tusho> 'tripcode' encodes into '3GqYIJ30bs'
18:14:51 <tusho> which doesn't look too ugly
18:14:55 <AnMaster> I mean actual implementation can differ
18:15:04 <tusho> AnMaster: It's the traditional DES one
18:15:20 <tusho> ie. regular unix crypt
18:15:31 <AnMaster> iirc the crypt() on *nix may not be DES nowdays
18:15:46 <AnMaster> I'm not sure about that though
18:16:08 <tusho> AnMaster: Yeah, most software calls the specific DES version
18:16:31 <tusho> Anyway, the end result of that godawful algorithm is that when I need to identify myself, my name shows up as tusho!pkokkY2.Ig
18:16:48 <Slereah> That's the point of a tripcode.
18:16:50 <tusho> (! seperates name and tripcode. To avoid impersonation by using ! in the name, the name is bold and the tripcode regular (or italics or whatever))
18:16:53 <tusho> Slereah: Yes. Of course.
18:17:13 <tusho> Slereah: Oh shut up. Sometimes identification is neccessary so a post makes sense.
18:17:25 <tusho> anyway, I was just explaining it to AnMaster for the wtfy-algorithm part.
18:18:10 <fizzie2> POSIX 1003.1-2001 says (line 7710): "The crypt() function is a string encoding function. The algorithm is implementation-defined."
18:18:30 -!- fizzie2 has changed nick to fizzie.
18:18:31 <tusho> We just had that discussion, if you read.
18:18:53 <fizzie> I did read it; it was just a confirmationatey "plain crypt() can indeed be something else" comment.
18:19:07 <tusho> AnMaster: Oh, and when I said about sending a patch to !WAHa.06x36, that is (perhaps obviously now) a person who is identified solely by their tripcode.
18:19:17 <tusho> Well, and their real name, which is public.
18:19:30 <tusho> The key for that trip is hR6k, it was cracked a while ago.
18:19:40 <tusho> (tripcodes are very easy to crack because they have a limited keyspace)
18:19:49 <tusho> but, uh, nobody cares.
18:20:06 <tusho> Well some people do so they invented 'secure tripcodes', which basically use a sane algorithm with a modern hashing function.
18:20:12 <tusho> But they differ from board to board, so they suck.
18:20:31 <AnMaster> what did you expect? des_crypt() only looks at first 8 chars iirc?
18:21:14 <tusho> and all of the other replacements
18:21:18 <tusho> and because you only use the last 8 characters
18:21:27 <AnMaster> and also... what about replay attack?
18:21:36 <AnMaster> tusho, you said 10 chars above
18:21:55 <tusho> and, replay attack, no idea. I have a 126 line C program on here that tracks tripcodes.
18:22:00 <Slereah> Why does the Ghostscript View logo look like a Klansman?
18:22:09 <tusho> It's all mega-optimized and stuff, and 21 lines are the bloomin' license
18:22:12 <AnMaster> I mean. isn't the string "tusho!pkokkY2.Ig" fixed?
18:22:16 <tusho> And it searches REGEXES.
18:22:19 <AnMaster> after all I could reuse that couldn't I?
18:22:26 <tusho> If you use in the name field:
18:22:30 <tusho> then it would display as
18:22:36 <tusho> *tusho!foo* (* = bold)
18:22:41 <tusho> but if I had the real tripcode 'foo'
18:22:47 <tusho> and did "tusho#magicfookey"
18:22:48 <AnMaster> how does it check tripcode then?
18:23:02 <AnMaster> so... server knows the private bit?
18:23:08 <tusho> You enter it each time.
18:23:20 <tusho> (Well, most boards set a cookie so it remembers it.)
18:23:21 <AnMaster> well it could technically register it
18:23:32 <tusho> AnMaster: Well, technically it could. But what would it do with it?
18:23:42 <tusho> Here, let me post a test thread on the ESO forum to demonstrate.
18:23:44 <AnMaster> also what about that "securetrip" thing?
18:24:04 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:24:12 <tusho> AnMaster: it's encoded using a non-wtfy algo
18:24:14 <tusho> sha1 and that shizz
18:24:48 <ais523> AnMaster: it's good enough for practical use here
18:24:50 <tusho> AnMaster: it's good enough
18:25:01 <tusho> eh, Kareha treats ! as a tripcode seperator along with #
18:25:04 <tusho> so I can't forge, anyway
18:25:07 * tusho deletes that thread
18:25:23 <tusho> ais523: have you read the logs?
18:25:26 <tusho> the tripcode algorithm is lollerific
18:25:30 <ais523> I've only just got here
18:25:35 <tusho> ais523: wait, I'll just copypasta
18:25:53 <tusho> <tusho> Convert the input into Shift-JIS (a common japanese character set).
18:25:54 <tusho> <tusho> Replace the chars & < > " ' with & < > " ' (respectively)
18:25:54 <tusho> <tusho> Generate another string:
18:25:54 <tusho> <tusho> - Take the second and third characters of the input with 'H.' appended to it.
18:25:54 <tusho> <tusho> - Replace any characters not between '.' and 'z' with '.'.
18:25:54 <tusho> <tusho> - Replace any of the characters in :;<=>?@[\]^_` with the corresponding character from ABCDEFGabcdef
18:25:57 <tusho> <tusho> Call the crypt() function with the input (post-converting-and-mangling) and the other string we just generated as the salt.
18:26:00 <tusho> <tusho> Then, take the last 10 characters of its result.
18:26:06 <tusho> where crypt() is des_crypt
18:27:27 <tusho> Just how will Apple meet expectations? Using the patent application as a guide, Apple appears to be making room on the iPhone for flash memory, which means an end to Apple's standoff with Adobe (ADBE) that's kept iPhones from easily viewing a plethora of Internet videos.
18:27:35 <tusho> Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees... I don't think that's what flash means.
18:28:08 <tusho> ais523: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200806051525DOWJONESDJONLINE000819_FORTUNE5.htm
18:28:11 <ais523> ...and I can understand people getting confused by Flash meaning two different things
18:28:17 <tusho> -By Ben Charny, Dow Jones Newswires; 415-765-8230; ben.charny@dowjones.com
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19:48:34 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: :-)
19:49:50 <tusho> So I'm going to create an esolangs subreddit. esolangs, esolang, or esoteric?
19:49:55 -!- GregorR has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:50:24 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: esolangs.org, though
19:50:28 <tusho> and people might want esoteric for, well, esoterica
19:51:22 <RodgerTheGreat> ""Is it a land grab and attempt to create (patent) toll roads throughout iPhone Universe or just protection against a would-be competitor outflanking Apple and establishing barriers against them and their developer ecosystem?," said Mark Sigal, who writes the popular Network Garden blog." <- this is a maze of confused metaphors
19:51:23 <tusho> Slereah7: Like, 'programming' and 'politics' and 'pics'.
19:51:38 <tusho> You can make your own, now.
19:51:40 <tusho> For, like, a few months.
19:51:44 <tusho> So I guess an esolang one would be nice
19:51:47 <Slereah7> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_Portal#This_user_is_spamming.
19:53:12 <tusho> Slereah7: replied'd
19:53:56 <tusho> I have reverted his blanking with 'revert page blanking spam
19:53:59 <RodgerTheGreat> this is probably my favorite thing on the entire wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP#99_bottles
19:54:26 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: at some point people changed all examples to 'go to hell' except that one, which they replaced with a performance of the song
19:54:28 <tusho> unfortunately, it was reverted
19:54:45 -!- GregorR has joined.
19:54:54 <Slereah7> It might need some cake though.
19:54:55 <RodgerTheGreat> I have a cameo on the "Iterating Quine" implementation
19:55:11 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: and
19:55:12 <tusho> <RodgerTheGreat> ERROR 8: DON'T_BE_A_DOUCHE_TO_YOUR_INTERPRETER ERROR
19:55:41 -!- tusho has changed nick to botte.
19:56:02 <botte> ignore me, registering a nick
19:59:30 <Slereah7> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Limp.txt
20:00:22 <Slereah7> I didn't put in restrictions for processes, 'cause I so far don't have a lot of idea of how to use it
20:00:29 <botte> Slereah7: I hope you put it on the tite λιμπ
20:00:50 <RodgerTheGreat> Slereah7: how would you pronounce the name of this language?
20:01:33 <Slereah7> It was basically made to sound like "Lisp"
20:01:45 <Slereah7> Except I have no use for this s!
20:03:41 <botte> RodgerTheGreat: no
20:03:45 <botte> it combines all those languages
20:04:00 <Slereah7> Also, my IRC can't display greek characters
20:04:32 <botte> Slereah7: melab apologied
20:04:37 <Slereah7> It is a little too gay, even for Alan Turing
20:04:49 <botte> ais523: got a page for you to delete...
20:04:50 <botte> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Good_Esolang_Articles
20:04:56 <botte> another melab creation, but unfortunately totally useless
20:05:10 <botte> RodgerTheGreat: <?liphp (echo "hello world") ?>
20:05:51 <Slereah7> Lithp would probably just say "Hello thailor!"
20:06:20 <botte> <?liphp (if $admin (mysql_query "I can't bring myself to write this any further, it's awful
20:06:28 <RodgerTheGreat> I once designed a virtual CPU architecture called "FITH" that was vaguely based on FORTH.
20:06:46 <botte> ais523: anything re: deletion?
20:06:52 <botte> just a suggestion of course
20:06:55 <botte> but I don't think it's useful
20:06:57 <ais523> botte: I was trying to do some of it
20:07:04 <ais523> I would have managed it too if you hadn't stolen focus from me
20:08:37 <botte> ais523: I think melab has the lowest useful contrib:contrib ratio on esolang
20:08:38 <botte> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Melab
20:08:46 <botte> and the most redirects
20:09:11 <botte> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Jumble
20:09:17 <Slereah7> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Programming_Languages_Glossary
20:09:29 <Slereah7> and he dares say I'm spamming!
20:09:44 <botte> This is going to be, (once other people write it for me)
20:10:27 <Slereah7> How awesome would that be if it worked.
20:10:46 <botte> However, it kinda seems like me and ais are ripping on him now ;(
20:10:47 <Slereah7> ;; This is going to be the Limp interpreter in Scheme
20:11:48 <Slereah7> I hope my pi book arrives soon.
20:12:00 <Slereah7> I want to get on with the specs.
20:12:32 <Slereah7> Should I name the channel towards the user "Alice"?
20:13:16 <botte> Slereah7: Or bob.,
20:13:33 <Slereah7> I might do more than one, too.
20:13:45 <Slereah7> Although I rarely use anything else than stdin/out
20:14:34 <botte> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Jumble wow
20:14:37 <botte> I already pasted that
20:14:53 <Slereah7> And when do we get to meet him?
20:15:07 <Slereah7> And how can we convince him to go on the EsCo project?
20:15:29 <ais523> Slereah7: I managed to clean up after Melab, writing them a friendly warning now...
20:16:41 <Slereah7> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Slereah/Limp
20:17:32 <botte> Slereah7: Put it at the unicode name.
20:17:36 <botte> And add a Limp redirect
20:17:49 <botte> Slereah7: Oh, and how about having Limp the first ESO language?
20:17:53 <Slereah7> I don't care too much right now.
20:18:04 <botte> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/My_Favorite_Esoteric_Languages_Articles
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20:18:10 <botte> he never stops writing tiny useless pages
20:18:11 <Slereah7> Would it really be a good idea for the eso standard?
20:18:17 <Slereah7> I make really horrible interpreters.
20:18:24 <botte> ais523: (sorry for ping) but he just made another one
20:18:54 <botte> I think the Recursion redirect is good
20:18:56 <ais523> it's not as much as a problem in userspace
20:18:59 <botte> because it isn't "an infinite loop"
20:19:04 <botte> recursion, n. see recursion
20:19:12 <botte> Wiki redirects can be used as, basically, 'see N'
20:19:14 <ais523> because that's not done automatically
20:19:16 <botte> that's what they're often used for
20:19:18 <ais523> and that isn't recursive anyway
20:19:24 <botte> it's tail recursive
20:19:25 <ais523> recursion would be see /also/ recursion
20:19:42 <botte> ais523: no, not really
20:19:44 <ais523> botte: in the abstract, it's impossible to distinguish tail recursion from iteration
20:19:47 <botte> tail recursion isn't see ALSO
20:19:55 <ais523> recursion implies function calls
20:19:55 <Slereah7> Actually, I just put it because of an old quote.
20:19:55 <botte> well, exactly, re: tail recursion
20:20:03 <ais523> and function calls implies returning
20:20:06 <ais523> tail optimisation is an idiom
20:20:12 <botte> (define (foo) (foo))
20:20:17 <ais523> umm... tail recursion is an optimisation
20:20:18 <botte> does not mean "see also"
20:20:23 <botte> tail recursion is a property
20:20:23 <ais523> but it's done by the compiler, not the programmer
20:20:27 <Slereah7> By "recursive" I mean "defined by recursion."
20:20:28 <botte> Tail Call Optimization is an optimization
20:20:39 <botte> anyway, it's not like recursion needs a real definition, and it's not a bad joke
20:20:43 <ais523> if the programmer does it by hand (goto &subroutine), then it's iteration
20:21:00 <ais523> as in, done to death on Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia already
20:21:19 <botte> ais523: is it harming someone? if someone links to [[recursive]], then they get a cheap laugh
20:21:22 <botte> otherwise, nobody's harmed
20:21:33 <ais523> well, there should definitely be a real article at [[recursion]]
20:21:57 <ais523> we have articles about stacks, for instance
20:21:59 <botte> anyone on the esolang wiki already knows or is not likely to understand a definition
20:22:07 <ais523> and what esolangs use them
20:22:49 <ais523> Slereah7: yes, likely it would be mentioned in an article about recursion
20:22:50 <Slereah7> Queues are the orphans of esolangs.
20:23:34 <ais523> Esolang's about computational structures that esolangs are built out of, as well as the esolangs themselves
20:24:16 <botte> ais523: well, I find the joke funny
20:24:20 <botte> ais523: how about this:
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20:24:30 <ais523> ihope: do you have an opinion on this? you're the only other Esolang admin online in this channel at the moment
20:24:39 <Slereah7> Well, I put it in because there were no articles on recursion.
20:24:45 <botte> 'Sorry I'm young but enthusiastic' -- melab to ais523
20:24:48 <botte> I bet he's asiekerka
20:24:52 <botte> or at least around the same age
20:24:54 <ais523> ihope: [[recursion]] should be a real article IMO
20:24:55 <Slereah7> If you want to put a real article instead, go ahead
20:25:01 <ais523> ehird wants it to be a redirect to [[recursion]]
20:25:06 <ais523> and not to have an article about it
20:25:06 <botte> I haev a better idea
20:25:20 <ais523> if you're suggesting mutual recursion, that's been done too
20:25:26 <botte> this idea is the best of both worlds
20:25:36 <ais523> what, put 'see recursion' in a hatnote?
20:25:43 <Slereah7> THESE HANDS, THEY DO NOT CREATE
20:25:52 <ais523> Slereah7: set up circumstances that expose ehird as being immature
20:25:55 <ihope> Does my opinion matter more because I'm an esolang admin?
20:26:05 <botte> ais523: <span style="display:block"> can act as a div, right?
20:26:12 <ais523> ihope: well, it means your opinions are more likely to tally with graue's than other people's
20:26:14 <botte> is <img> forbidden?
20:26:16 <ais523> botte: yes, even in IE I think
20:26:24 <botte> how can I get around that?
20:26:27 <ihope> Slereah7: can they destroy subatomic particles from lead atoms, turning them into gold atoms?
20:26:28 <botte> ah, a span with a background
20:26:37 <ais523> botte: WTF are you trying to do
20:26:48 <ais523> it may quite possibly be the sort of thing I have to clamp down on
20:26:50 <botte> ais523: you'll see
20:26:53 <botte> it's simple enough
20:26:56 <botte> it's not malicious
20:27:16 <Slereah7> ihope : They can do nuclear reactions with lead atoms
20:27:30 <Slereah7> But it would take so much energy there's not a lot of point
20:27:37 <Slereah7> You'd get richer selling that energy.
20:28:01 <Slereah7> I'm not sure there's a Ld -> Au reaction, but there probably is.
20:32:33 <botte> it's in his userspace
20:33:14 <Slereah7> Language number 2 isn't very clear so far.
20:33:27 <Slereah7> But really, you can see he's beginning.
20:33:41 <Slereah7> He yet doesn't know the most important part is finding a spiffy name.
20:33:47 <botte> Slereah7: Language number 1 is pretty cool
20:34:35 <Slereah7> "The most important thing in the programming language is the name. A language will not succeed without a good name. I have recently invented a very good name and now I am looking for a suitable language."
20:34:44 <Slereah7> Donald Knuth knows how it's done!
20:34:54 <ais523> Slereah7: is that whole thing in quotes the name of a language?
20:35:07 <botte> I am going to do that
20:35:47 <botte> ais523: Recursion ON WHEELS!!!
20:36:28 <Slereah7> You'll be banned from the wiki!
20:36:36 <Slereah7> They'll think you're Willy on Wheels.
20:36:36 <botte> Slereah7: ONE MAN...
20:36:46 <botte> "We've got... a vandal."
20:37:00 <botte> "WE'VE GOT AN EMERGENCY SITUATION!! SOMEONE RENAMED A JOKE PAGE!!"
20:37:04 <botte> "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!"
20:37:13 <botte> "Son, I want you to know I love you."
20:37:17 <botte> THE ESOLANG WIKI...
20:37:24 <botte> "I'm INNOCENT!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!"
20:37:32 <botte> FOR A CRIME HE DID NOT COMMIT...
20:37:40 <botte> "Ha, you think you fool us? We know you did it."
20:37:49 <botte> COMING 2009... DIRECTED BY STEVEN SPEILBERG..
20:39:29 <Slereah7> Also : http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/movietrailer.swf
20:42:02 <botte> Slereah7: is this infinite
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20:42:42 <Slereah7> And THIS WOULD BE THE BEST MOVIE EVER
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20:45:59 <augur> haskell powersets are AWESOME
20:46:24 <Slereah7> Powersets, as in set theory powersets?
20:47:22 <augur> no clue but the way you get them in haskell is so awesome :o
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20:48:42 <ihope> Cool. The most important thing in the programming language is the name. A language will not succeed without a good name. I have recently invented a very good name and now I am looking for a suitable language. is apparently a valid name for a wiki page.
20:49:19 <Slereah7> Let's make a language with that name!
20:49:36 <botte> Slereah7: I already suggested that
20:49:42 <botte> And it's WITH THE QUOTES.
20:49:49 <botte> Now I hereby reserve that language name & pgae.
20:50:00 <Slereah7> Combinators, stacks, tapes, whatever
20:50:06 <ihope> You get the one with quotes, we get the one without quotes.
20:50:25 <ihope> So functional elements, both typed and untyped, as well as string manipulation.
20:50:30 <ais523> ihope: it would be as long as it contains no banned characters (which it doesn't), no partially-banned characters in the wrong context (which it doesn't), and is no more than 255 characters long
20:50:31 <botte> it will be a collaborative, wiki-based project to define a LANGUAGE OF STUFF
20:50:32 <ihope> No, our languages will fight against each other!
20:50:41 <botte> I'll create the page
20:50:47 <botte> which will be about as useful as Melab's to start with!
20:51:06 <ais523> <ihope> Now for a cute little separator that's valid Haskell
20:51:17 <ais523> ihope: what does that separator do, anyway?
20:51:27 <ihope> {- and -} are Haskell's comment markers.
20:51:32 <Slereah7> botte : The stub should say something like "This is going to be an awesome language"
20:51:34 <ihope> So it does nothing at all.
20:51:40 <botte> Slereah7: way ahead of you
20:51:40 <botte> http://esolangs.org/wiki/%22The_most_important_thing_in_the_programming_language_is_the_name._A_language_will_not_succeed_without_a_good_name._I_have_recently_invented_a_very_good_name_and_now_I_am_looking_for_a_suitable_language.%22
20:52:06 <ihope> We'll call it " for short.
20:52:21 <ihope> Make sure it uses probability.
20:52:24 <Slereah7> I once had an incredibly stupid idea for a language that had pretty much every feature imaginable.
20:52:41 <Slereah7> The biggest problem was compatibility between the different paradigm
20:52:44 <botte> " is a good name for it
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20:53:33 <botte> "Most important: nickname"
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20:54:59 <Slereah7> We should find an idea before someone says "Oh fuck it let's just make a brainfuck clone"
20:56:21 <ais523> hmm... maybe a rewriting lang that rewrites its own source code
20:56:26 <ais523> but can only rewrite one char at a tim
20:56:28 <RodgerTheGreat> like, a basic instruction set largely composed of functionality for copying the program's data, and then in order to loop you have to anticipate a certain percentage of mutation
20:56:38 <botte> wait, no. a _typed_ rewriting language
20:56:49 <ais523> RodgerTheGreat: that's like Java2K+SMITH
20:57:03 <ais523> actually, I'd like to see a lang which is like Java2K but more interesting
20:57:21 <ais523> Java2K just had a do everyting twice to square the chance of it failing mechanic
20:57:22 <ihope> Typed rewriting languages are so... the way of the future. :-)
20:57:25 <ais523> which was pointeless, really
20:57:27 <RodgerTheGreat> my first thought was something like redcode, but we could try making it a forthlike, perhaps?
20:58:05 <RodgerTheGreat> plus I'd imagine this language could be inherently multithreaded as a feature of replication
20:58:20 <Slereah7> Maybe we should make *this* the ESO language.
20:58:25 <botte> wow suprised isn't a word
20:58:38 <botte> Slereah7: I agree.
20:58:48 <botte> I intend to cre- oh wait this isn't agora
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20:59:07 <ais523> RodgerTheGreat: actually rewriting languages tend to end up inherently more or less multithreaded anyway
20:59:14 <ais523> Thue is multithreaded in my opinion
20:59:23 <botte> ais523: instead of multi-threaded...
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20:59:39 <botte> An asynchronous, parallel, lazy, typed rewriting language.
20:59:41 <ais523> a lazy rewriting lang? does that even make sense?
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21:00:04 <Slereah7> Melab is adding to his favorite language list.
21:00:25 <botte> ais523: does a language that simply rewrites its own source being typed make sense?
21:00:28 <botte> About as much, I'd say.
21:00:31 <botte> As wll as 'asynchronous'.
21:00:34 <botte> Thus, we have a challenge!
21:00:44 <ais523> botte: I can just about imagine a typed rewriting lang
21:00:51 <botte> ais523: that rewrites its own source?
21:00:55 <augur> are there any languages that dont evaluation anything until necessary?
21:00:59 <augur> e.g. even expressions?
21:01:02 <ais523> I can't figure out how it would be done
21:01:04 <botte> augur: No! It's not called haskell.
21:01:09 <botte> ais523: augur codes haskell
21:01:18 <ihope> Yeah, typed self-rewriting languages are quite possible.
21:01:19 <RodgerTheGreat> how about a language that only possesses analog values as primitives?
21:01:23 <ais523> but typed rewriting sort of makes sense
21:01:25 <augur> haskell evaluations expressions immediately afaik
21:01:28 <ais523> as in you can only rewrite integers into integers
21:01:29 <botte> ais523: what about that, but where the type system is the value system and it has dependent types?
21:01:32 <ais523> and functions into otehr functions
21:01:33 <botte> You know, that stuff I love so much.
21:01:36 <botte> It'd like .. rewrite types
21:01:41 <augur> not that there really are expressions as such but
21:01:46 <ais523> <augur> haskell evaluations expressions immediately afaik
21:01:55 <ihope> The type system is the value system and it has dependent types. Difficult. :-)
21:02:02 <botte> ihope: No, not really.
21:02:12 <botte> foo :: String -> String
21:02:13 <ais523> augur: try taking the first 1000 elements of [1..]
21:02:20 <botte> (->) :: Type -> Type -> Type
21:02:20 <ihope> If it's self-rewriting, I mean.
21:02:22 <ais523> and then tell me that it evaluates expressions immediately
21:02:31 <botte> Haskell type synonyms are functions taking some Types and returning one.
21:02:43 <botte> a type that determines the type of a printf formatter - String -> Type
21:02:45 <augur> ais523: list monads aren't expressions i'd say :p
21:02:50 <botte> So that, but in a self-rewriting language.
21:02:55 <augur> tho haskell doesnt really have expressions in the traditional sense i guess
21:02:59 <botte> augur: Don't talk about things you don't know about.
21:03:00 <ais523> augur: that has nothing to do with monads
21:03:08 <ais523> [1..] is an infinite list
21:03:23 <ais523> but elements are only evaluated as needed
21:03:24 <Slereah7> Melab updated his favlangs *again*?
21:03:31 <ihope> Haskell doesn't have expressions in the traditional sense?
21:03:39 <ihope> What's the traditional sense, then?
21:03:41 <ais523> Slereah7: I think he wanted to make it a collaborative project
21:03:42 <augur> well, haskell is all functions
21:03:43 <Slereah7> How can he even put that much again, did he read all the specs?
21:03:45 <botte> Slereah7: I just updated it by removing all his lines of [[]]!
21:03:49 <augur> which i guess are a kind of expression
21:03:50 <botte> ais523: 'MY' favourite
21:03:58 <ais523> he's trying to do something along the lines of Wikipedia's favourite articles, I think
21:04:02 <ihope> 3 isn't a function in Haskell.
21:04:05 <augur> but i was thinking of stuff like expressions in imperative languages
21:04:06 <botte> MY favourite esolangs, ais523
21:04:08 <botte> and it's in his userspcea
21:04:18 <ais523> botte: yes, he was trying to do it outside userspace first
21:04:21 <Slereah7> I'll forgive him if he <3 my esolangs
21:04:27 <augur> i suppose i should rephrase
21:04:30 <botte> ais523: He's a wiki noob, that's why.
21:04:34 <botte> He doesn't know that "me" doesn't mean "me".
21:04:36 <Slereah7> But apparently he didn't like the Andrei Machine 9000.
21:04:47 <augur> are there any imperative languages that dont evaluate expressions immediately?
21:04:51 <Slereah7> Fuck, I should make an interpreter of that one day
21:05:10 <ais523> augur: well, CLC-INTERCAL has something a bit like that
21:05:19 <augur> it sounds like we need an esolang with it
21:05:22 <ais523> you can set up an expression to be evaluated only when it becomes not an error
21:05:27 <Slereah7> Wait, the Andrei Machine 9000 isn't in the language list
21:05:28 <ais523> but it's not the same, really
21:06:41 <ihope> Let's have a language where all instructions are executed only when they need to be, so it's difficult to get things in the right order.
21:06:47 <Slereah7> Does anyone have an idea what would be a good language to emulate the andrei machine?
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21:07:09 <Slereah7> It is fucking terrible for input!
21:07:10 <ais523> Slereah7: ideally compiling it into a graph-rewriting lang would work
21:07:14 <ais523> but I'm not sure if there are any
21:07:24 <ais523> Eodermdrome is one but I haven't specced it up yet
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21:07:38 <ais523> and can't think of a sensible way to write an interp for it
21:07:52 <Slereah7> Why Kolmogorov, why didn't you make a language of it!
21:08:14 <Slereah7> There's so many paradigm with absolutely no widespread languages.
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21:08:59 <ihope> \x.\y.``xyy can't be written any shorter than ``s`k`s``s`k``sii``s`k``s`ksk``s`k`sikk?
21:09:20 <ihope> Isn't ``ss`ki the same?
21:09:57 <Slereah> Either through my abstraction eliminator or the "Combinator birds" list
21:10:31 <ais523> ihope: not sure, I'm really bad at evaluating SKI in my head when it's been optimised
21:10:34 <ihope> Write a better abstraction eliminator. :-)
21:10:42 <ihope> ```ss`kix = ``sx``kix = ``sxi; ```sxiy = ``xy`iy = ``xyy.
21:10:58 <ais523> that's reverse abstraction elimination
21:11:10 <ihope> And don't tell me ``s`k`s``s`k``sii``s`k``s`ksk``s`k`sikk is easier to evaluate in your head.
21:11:12 <Slereah> ihope : my better eliminator doesn't use SKI
21:11:23 <ihope> Write a slightly worse one, then. :-P
21:11:33 <Slereah> I also actually have an optimisator
21:11:39 <Slereah> It is called THE JUGGERNAUT
21:11:58 <Slereah> With... some optimisation.
21:12:38 <ihope> How about I go and shorten a few of the SKI things on that page?
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21:14:34 <botte> Do as you wish, as long as it's correct. <-- Philosophy of life
21:14:37 <ihope> `y``xxy, ``si`xx, ``s`k`si``sii.
21:14:48 <ihope> Same as what's on the wiki already for that one.
21:17:48 <Slereah> If you can also shorten the Fibonacci program, you are quite heroic!
21:18:03 <ihope> `y`xy, ``six, `si, same as the wiki. `yx, ``si`kx, ``s`k`sik, same as the wiki. `x`yy, ``s`kx``sii, ``s``s`ksk`k``sii, same as the wiki. `x`yz, ``s`kxy, `s`kx, ``s`ksk, same as the wiki.
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21:18:50 <Slereah> I used every mean possible to shorten it
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21:19:04 <Slereah> And make it totally unreadable
21:19:26 <ihope> ``xzy, ``sx`ky, ``s`k`sxk, ``s``s`ks``s`kksi`kk... whatever.
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21:20:00 <ihope> What I'm concerned about now is ``s`k``s``s`k``s`ksks`kk``s`k`sik for ``zxy.
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21:20:41 <Slereah> I think I used this one : http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/cus/combinator/birds.html
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21:21:25 <ihope> ``zxy, ``s``si`kx`ky, ``s`k`s``si`kxk, ``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`k`sik`kk.
21:21:49 <Slereah> I could feed it to the JUGGERNAUT
21:22:04 <Slereah> But I really don't want to wait three days for the results.
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21:22:23 <ais523> Slereah: it would just output ``zxy, surely?
21:22:26 <ihope> Well, if your computer can stay up for three days...
21:22:41 <ais523> anyway, why not just optimise the Juggernaut a bit?
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21:23:24 <tusho> ais523: it's a brute-forcer written in bad python
21:23:25 <Slereah> ais523 : When I noticed it took long hours to do anything complex
21:23:41 <Slereah> I said "Fuck this, I'm going to rewrite the interpreter"
21:23:51 <Slereah> Then, I tried writing it in C.
21:23:52 <ais523> tusho: exactly, that's why I thought it might be optimisable
21:24:02 <Slereah> But since I'm lame at C, I gave up.
21:26:36 <Slereah> Although it might be simple enough to write in Scheme
21:26:36 <Slereah> Although it was already optimised a little
21:26:36 <Slereah> For instance, it discarded such things as `iC
21:26:36 <Slereah> And never went further than a hundred steps or so, in case it wasn't stopping.
21:26:56 <Slereah> (Plus, it was only good for pure combinators, because of the method it used)
21:28:08 <ihope> "Oh, that's our common lip. Today it's Bob's turn."
21:28:14 <tusho> http://esolangs.reddit.com/
21:28:44 <ihope> "Of course, we all talk with it when he's not saying anything."
21:29:05 <Slereah> Who is the other dude, is it Alice?
21:30:44 <tusho> other dude ... alice
21:31:03 <ihope> It's a cryptographic lip, I bet.
21:35:12 <Slereah> How can you speak if you have no lips, mister Bob
21:35:57 <Slereah> Melab doesn't like mah langs.
21:36:16 <Slereah> Sure, they're stolen from computational models over 40 years old!
21:36:22 <Slereah> But I did them with love and care!
21:37:05 <tusho> Did I mention http://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/?
21:37:25 <Slereah> What are we supposed to put in it?
21:37:46 <tusho> Just like what programming.reddit has, but esolangs.
21:38:00 <Slereah> What does programming.reddit has?
21:38:07 <tusho> Programming stuff.
21:38:29 <Slereah> So... Is it for programs about esolangs, or in esolangs?
21:39:00 <tusho> Slereah: It's what programming.reddit has, but for esolangs.
21:39:29 <Slereah> "Why I Dislike C++ For Large Projects (mistybeach.com)"
21:39:42 <tusho> that's just an article someone submitted.
21:39:48 <Slereah> Is it going to be nothing but EsCo jokes?
21:40:01 <Slereah> I'm trying to figure it out!
21:40:09 * ais523 hasn't heard any good EsCo jokes in a while
21:40:12 <tusho> Links. About esolangs.
21:40:24 <tusho> ais523: Well, obviously. The EsCo conspiracy is here - we're all just programs interpreted by it.
21:40:27 <Slereah> Are there any, outside of us?
21:40:50 <ais523> Slereah: yes, lots, but they tend to be old and unmaintained
21:40:59 <ais523> LOLCODE was the first big new one in a while and it's rubbish
21:41:25 <Slereah> Most people just walk upon Brainfuck, write some stuff in it and walk away
21:41:47 <tusho> lolcode is still around
21:41:50 <Slereah> It takes some sort of madman to stay D:
21:42:02 <tusho> [[It was one year ago today, May 27, 2007, when I opened the doors to lolcode.com. It's been a pretty amazing year since then. LOLCODE has evolved from a joke post on my blog just two days before to what's becoming a fairly standard “Hello World” for compiler writers, virtual machine creators, and API publishers]]
21:42:06 * tusho sheds a tear for LOLCODE ...
21:42:51 <Slereah> Isn't Lolcode pretty much C in kitten?
21:43:25 <tusho> C by people who don't understand C.
21:44:04 <ais523> lolcode looks like it's going ridiculously strong, actually?
21:44:18 <tusho> ais523: unfortunately.
21:44:34 <ais523> it's not that bad really, just bland
21:45:17 <Slereah> Like most big projects in kitten
21:45:26 <tusho> ais523: they have committies
21:45:32 <tusho> and democratic voting
21:45:34 <tusho> and versioned standards
21:45:35 <tusho> [[While this was not explicitly voted upon, it seemed to be taken for granted. It was the standard used for commenting in examples and has been adopted by nearly all developers in the developer meeting. Hopefully this will be standardized at the next developer meeting.]]
21:45:40 <Slereah> The Bible in kitty isn't very lulz either
21:46:38 <tusho> idea for a project.
21:46:42 <tusho> (ais523 will like this)
21:47:01 <tusho> The standard unix utilities, coded in a mindbendingly eso way.
21:47:17 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:47:18 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:47:19 <tusho> Slereah: Well, I just explained it.
21:47:24 <Slereah> Won't that go the same way as the esoOS?
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21:47:50 <ais523> tusho: a sort of EsoGNU?
21:48:03 <tusho> ais523: Well yes, but GNU weren't the first to write coreutils.
21:48:07 <tusho> Coreutils aren't that complex.
21:48:23 <tusho> I am going to write true(1) first. It will break your brain.
21:48:27 <ais523> tusho: I know they weren't
21:48:46 <ais523> IIRC they were the first to try to rewrite them from scratch despite them all having already been written, though
21:48:46 <tusho> Oh, and we will be using POSIX and C89. So no long options, they're too simple.
21:49:03 <tusho> I am going to make true malloc().
21:49:19 <ais523> tusho: ah, you mean IOCCC-style writing rather than eso-style writing
21:49:28 <tusho> esoteric-style writing
21:49:37 <tusho> as in, the program is written perfectly sanely
21:49:40 <ais523> you should make it perform network accesses for a reason which is actually very important
21:49:40 <tusho> but it operates insanely
21:49:48 <tusho> not true(1), but cat can do that
21:49:59 <tusho> cat(1) ftp's to a public ftp server, then downloads it
21:50:14 <tusho> you can configure the server in /etc/catrc, ~/.catrc and -s
21:51:20 <ais523> tusho: that's a security risk
21:51:28 <ais523> it should use a TCP connection on loopback to catd
21:51:33 <tusho> ais523: hahahaha yes
21:51:52 <ais523> wow, the concept of catd is just mindblowing
21:52:14 <Slereah> Melab did a third language!
21:53:22 <ais523> maybe we should point them to #esoteric, it's spammy on the wiki but here it wouldn't reduce the signal/noice ratio appreciably
21:53:23 <tusho> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Directory
21:53:27 <tusho> he made a sitemap of his user space!!
21:53:32 <tusho> without links to boot
21:53:45 <tusho> that is the best thing ever
21:53:48 <ais523> tusho: maybe you should point them to [[Special:Prefixindex/User:Melab]]?
21:54:08 <tusho> ais523: I think the problem is more having that many articles
21:54:25 <ais523> well, I'd rather he spams up his userspace than the rest of the wiki
21:57:16 <tusho> ais523: hmm, is it destination or source first for functions? I always forget.
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22:00:15 <tusho> huh, why did ais523 go?
22:02:12 <Slereah> There was so many projects thrown in today.
22:02:53 <Slereah> I dunno. Compared to most days, there seem to have been a lot of projects created
22:03:04 <Slereah> Probably to be quickly abandoned, but such is the internet way.
22:03:06 -!- timotiis has joined.
22:06:27 <olsner> it's funny how many times the source-code in database idea surfaces and disappears ... and it never has become very mainstream
22:06:35 <tusho> olsner: because it sucks
22:06:46 <tusho> Slereah: wow you fixed his page
22:06:49 <tusho> burst of kindness?
22:07:02 <tusho> What should I make 'loop forever'?
22:07:36 <Slereah> I'm just that kind of guy.
22:07:49 <tusho> care to answer my q? :P
22:07:52 <olsner> (someone posted a blog post about that on reddit)
22:07:57 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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22:08:59 <tusho> olsner: got an opinion?
22:09:30 <Slereah> Loop forever "LOOK AROUND YOU"
22:10:24 <tusho> Slereah: It must be one character.
22:10:29 <tusho> where C iz a character
22:11:59 <Slereah> Heh. The 2006 eso contest is still on the frist page.
22:13:16 <tusho> Slereah: http://rafb.net/p/u1vmQA55.html
22:13:26 <tusho> This true(1) can exit with any status code, with a shortcut for 1 (false).
22:13:31 <tusho> It can also loop forever.
22:13:39 <tusho> It has an option to display help.
22:14:17 <Slereah> Fun thing about this is, I can actually read the code
22:14:25 <Slereah> But since I don't know shit of GNU or something else
22:14:31 <Slereah> I don't understand what it's for
22:15:19 <tusho> Slereah: It's just a lunix command.
22:15:28 <tusho> It's meant to just exit with code 0 ('success')
22:15:31 <tusho> Mine can do SO MUCH MORE.
22:15:34 <tusho> It's a parody of gnu's true.
22:15:43 <tusho> Which has localization hooks, long options, etc.
22:15:49 <tusho> Here is a full true(1):
22:15:53 <tusho> int main(void) { return 0; }
22:15:58 <tusho> GNU's is over 50 lines.
22:19:13 <tusho> Slereah: Oh dear, esolangs.org is linked to on 4chan's /prog/. (There was a link to a thread there on some site, I clicked the thread list out of curiosity)
22:19:44 <tusho> http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1211595052 They don't like dimensifuck, apparently.
22:21:52 <Slereah> "You can lazy evaluate that all you want, it still doesn't make sense."
22:22:21 <tusho> make: *** No rule to make target `sense'. Stop.
22:22:24 <tusho> No rules to making sense. Deep.
22:22:36 <Slereah> This thread might not last long.
22:24:40 <olsner> make has been pleading for people to "Stop." for ages, still they keep trying their silly nonexistant targets
22:26:11 <Slereah> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Quine
22:26:16 <tusho> make: *** No rule to make target `Stop. Please. Will. You. Just'. Stop.
22:26:19 <Slereah> Someone need to have a talk witj Melab.
22:26:57 <ihope> Is Melab doing bad things?
22:27:22 <tusho> ihope: Making an awful lot of pages in his userspace.
22:27:29 <tusho> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Melab#Plethora_of_user_pages Talk had.
22:27:31 <tusho> With my super new account!
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22:29:54 <Slereah> http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1212756254/3
22:30:13 * ihope calculates a few trigonometric functions modulo various prime numbers
22:31:16 <ihope> Modulo 2 is pretty easy. sin(0) = 0, sin(1) = 1, cos(0) = 1, cos(1) = 0.
22:32:59 <Slereah> I drive a car (actually I do not, because cars sucks)
22:36:50 <ihope> Hmm. It looks like modulo 3, either sin(x) or cos(x) but not both will be 0.
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22:37:53 <tusho> Therefore, there are no Rules and we have not really been playing a Game at
22:37:53 <tusho> all since the inception of 4E70.}}- B nomic
22:38:00 <olsner> sin(1) = 1? surely that is wrong?
22:38:14 <ihope> Anything's possible in a Galois field!
22:38:34 <Slereah> You know what happened to Galois?
22:38:44 <tusho> Slereah: And then turned into a HASKELL COMPANY
22:39:02 <Slereah> ... I have a song about Galois.
22:39:23 <Slereah> I bought the "Klein Four" CD.
22:39:31 <tusho> Slereah: Marry me.
22:39:54 <ihope> The path of love is never smooth / But mine's continuous for you
22:40:05 <Slereah> And you can get it for free
22:40:11 <Slereah> I don't advise buying the CD.
22:40:18 <Slereah> The other songs aren't that good.
22:40:40 <Slereah> "Mathematical paradise" is okay. And the ballad of Galois too.
22:40:45 <tusho> Slereah: Well duh, it's the spirit!
22:40:53 <Slereah> I don't listen to the rest anymore.
22:41:05 <augur> i need to find someone to work with
22:41:20 <Slereah> I'm not learning Javascript for you.
22:41:43 <augur> slereah, look at this: http://280slides.com/Editor/
22:42:38 <tusho> augur: gb2/web2.0/
22:43:53 <tusho> That's what i'm trying to tell you.
22:48:08 <Slereah> How did Melab managed to misspell article names on his favorite page?
22:50:32 <ihope> In an exciting twist, modulo 3, cos(0) = 2.
22:52:19 <ihope> And this implies that sin(n) = 0 for all n here.
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22:53:11 <ihope> Oh, darn it, these sine and cosine formulas are actually inconsistent modulo 3.
22:56:55 <ihope> Wait, did I divide both sides by sin(0) without knowing it wasn't 0 (and, in fact, knowing it was 0)?
22:58:19 <tusho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#What_happened_to_NPOV.3F
22:58:25 <tusho> "The formation and evolution of the Solar System is a theory which claims that the solar system began 4.6 billion years ago with the gravitational collapse of a small part of a giant molecular cloud."
22:59:23 <Slereah> Everyone knows that it's actually Zeus ejaculating on Jesus
22:59:35 <Slereah> (I was sleeping in the library during bible class)
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