00:05:26 <Slereah7> What do I need to display the unicode fellows on my firefox
00:07:28 <Slereah7> I get the stupid never used characters
00:08:19 <Slereah7> Not the one I was actually looking for :(
00:08:28 <Slereah7> "GREEK ACROPHONIC HERMIONIAN TEN"
00:08:45 <Slereah7> Which is semantically right, but you know.
00:10:03 <Slereah7> Is there a way to search for which police has the char you want?
00:12:41 <tusho> Slereah: which police?
00:14:28 <Slereah7> Anyone with the GREEK ACROPHONIC HERMIONIAN TEN character.
00:14:38 <Slereah7> Because I suppose I can't be too pciky!
00:17:14 <augur> whats police translated into french?
00:17:20 <augur> no tats not french
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00:19:33 <Slereah7> Do wikis have a way to comment out?
00:20:13 <augur> no. you cant comment things out.
00:20:16 <augur> you can delete them.
00:20:43 <Slereah7> 'cause I'd like to keep a greek alphabet in the arithmetica page
00:20:53 <oerjan> i am quite sure i've seen comments, but maybe you cannot have arbitrary things in them
00:21:10 <augur> theres a discussion page, but no comments in the body i dont think
00:21:10 <Slereah7> Well, it's easier than to get the letters elsewhere.
00:21:25 <augur> then maybe you should just put in a link to mathematical symbols.
00:21:40 <oerjan> i _know_ i've seen comments in wikipedia
00:21:46 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
00:22:28 <Slereah7> * Used to leave comments in a page for future editors.
00:22:28 <Slereah7> * Note that most comments should go on the appropriate Talk page.
00:23:02 <augur> html commments are valid then
00:28:40 <tusho> wiki syntax is augmented html
00:28:42 <tusho> well, subset of html
00:29:17 <augur> a superset of a subset, which itself is not a subset.
00:29:40 <augur> or, in other words, some HTML + some custom stuff
00:34:51 <Slereah7> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Slereah/Arithmetica
00:35:05 <Slereah7> It would be easier if I could read greek!
00:35:36 <Slereah7> I have little idea how he deals with operator precedence or place his abbreviations.
00:37:22 <tusho> 'We need more people like Ørjan_Johansen.'
00:37:28 <tusho> sez the person who removed a spec
00:37:38 <tusho> because oerjan 'fucked with it' (objected to its copyright which was incompatible with the wiki's)
00:37:47 * tusho is browsin' the wiki, in case youcan't tell
00:38:52 <Slereah7> "Unicode fonts for ancient scripts"
00:39:14 <tusho> oh, and the guy is highly egotistical
00:39:22 <tusho> and, um, bigoted: '(grr chinese)'
00:39:31 <tusho> he thinks that the chinese are going to steal his esoteric cpu architechture
00:39:35 <tusho> because they can't be bothered to make their own
00:39:44 <tusho> and that makes it OK to be incompatible with the wiki's licensing
00:43:07 <augur> does anyone have a good reference or intro to building interpreters?
00:44:23 <tusho> it is the #1 reference text on interpreters & compilers
00:44:25 <tusho> save for the dragon book
00:44:37 <tusho> sicp first, then the dragon book for the low-level dirty details (if writing a compiler)
00:44:40 <tusho> if not writing a compiler, just sicp
00:45:37 <augur> does it go over stuff like how to implement recursion using stacks and so on?
00:46:20 <tusho> augur: no, because scheme handles that for you.
00:46:28 <tusho> it's about high-level interpreters
00:46:37 <tusho> but, err, what's complicated about using a stack for recursion?
00:46:41 <augur> riiiight but im not going to be writing an interpreter in scheme. :P
00:46:43 <tusho> instead of calling a function, push to stack and goto the top
00:46:55 <augur> im going to be writing an interpreter in javascript
00:46:56 <tusho> when returning, replace top of stack with value
00:47:05 <tusho> augur: well, javascript does function calls fine
00:47:08 <augur> which, while it lets you do recursion, it doesnt let you do infinite recursion
00:47:08 <tusho> no need to implement your own stack
00:47:17 <augur> it has about 100 to 1000 recursions max
00:47:17 <tusho> augur: so do tail call optimization
00:47:26 <augur> tailcalls wont work
00:47:33 <tusho> augur: you can't have infinite calls
00:47:50 <augur> JS's function call stack is only about 1000 calls deep
00:47:50 <tusho> augur: in principle, js has no recursion limit.
00:47:59 <tusho> you can't say in principle then talk about implementation
00:48:15 <augur> and arrays can be arbitrarily large
00:48:27 <tusho> augur: js has objects
00:48:47 <augur> i know. but i dont know how to right an interpreter outside of scheme :P
00:49:09 <augur> i dont know how to write an interpreter that doesnt already implicitly handle recursion using recusion
00:49:28 <tusho> handle recursion using recusion
00:49:42 <augur> the metacircular evaluator
00:49:54 <augur> uses its OWN recursion, to handle the recursion of the scheme it's interpreting
00:50:24 <tusho> augur: yes, that's standard practice
00:50:28 <tusho> nothing wrong with it, use it
00:50:31 <tusho> augur: you know what?
00:50:33 <tusho> even python uses that
00:50:38 <augur> but if i did that with javascript
00:50:41 <tusho> perl used to use it too
00:50:48 <augur> it can't interpret anything more than 1000 recursions deep
00:50:53 <tusho> augur: same with the c stack
00:50:57 <tusho> python peeps don't have a problem
00:51:23 <augur> so i want to use JS arrays as stacks and get a (effectively) arbitrary stack depth
00:51:50 <augur> but i dont know HOW to write that kind of interpreter. :P
00:52:36 <tusho> augur: you just ... do it
00:52:47 <augur> i dont know HOW to fucking do it
00:53:12 <augur> dont make me smack you tusho :P
00:53:21 <Slereah7> You don't need no book to write interpreters, nigga.
00:53:31 <augur> ::smacks tusho and slereah::
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01:12:28 <ihope> Suddenly, I wonder if it would be possible to prove /// Turing-complete based on its compression ability.
01:12:44 <ihope> See if it can compress arbitrary Turing machine outputs into their respective Turing machines, I guess.
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01:14:21 <ihope> Slashes on the wiki.
01:14:38 <ihope> As in http://whatever/Slashes
01:20:29 <ihope> tusho or comex: I don't suppose you plan on letting people buy more space for rootnomic (Normic, is it?) in exchange for whatever the nomic itself will give them.
02:04:52 <oklopol> ooooooooooookokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
02:05:03 <oklopol> i felt like doing /// the other day
02:05:13 <oklopol> but ended up reading ithkuil
02:32:32 <ihope> Do you know if Ilaksh-----'s two-dimensional writing system's been... done?
02:32:42 <ihope> [I sense the presence of a cat on the keyboard.]
02:34:44 <oklopol> ihope: i'm fairly sure it's ready
02:35:02 <oklopol> i'm mostly doing lojban & developing lalna, my own lang
02:35:41 <oklopol> except right now reading ithkuil, thought i'd check it out, since they say it's impossible
02:35:52 <oklopol> it seems like a relatively simple language
02:36:45 <oklopol> (ithkuil doesn't even have lambdas afaik)
02:37:14 <oklopol> (except it might have them, i've only read like 60% of it)
02:37:38 <augur> ithkuil doesnt even have lambdas.. you're so adorable :)
02:38:20 <augur> Me: heh. you're funny. :)
02:38:20 <augur> DanFrederiksen: I prefer genius but funny too :)
02:39:35 <oklopol> lambdas are crucial for communication!!
02:40:18 <oklopol> well not really, i do use quantification occasionally to avoid confusion
02:40:38 <oklopol> *in everyday speech somewhere in there
02:40:46 <oklopol> really just scratch the whole sentence
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02:47:34 <augur> this guy danfrederiksen
02:47:47 <augur> thinks hes "disproved" evolution with some silliness
02:47:53 <augur> and because hes a genius, hes always right
02:48:03 <augur> come join me in #ai so we can make fun of him
02:50:45 <augur> lol. i love crazy people :)
02:51:06 <oklopol> i have no idea what kinda guy this guy is
02:51:15 <oklopol> atm you're the one being silly :D
02:51:23 <augur> i know, i'm mocking him :P
02:51:56 <augur> DanFrederiksen: well, not many before me was able to prove evolution wrong..
02:51:58 <augur> DanFrederiksen :you naturally assume you would recognize such a proof..
02:56:22 <augur> ok: evolution is a purely mechanistic concept. anything outside the mechanistic it could make. we have sensation, a quality that is useless in the mechanistic, ergo we are at least more than mechanistic and ergo evolution didn't make us
02:57:15 <oklopol> "sensation" has no meaning to me
02:57:28 <augur> something thats SENSATIONAL
02:59:28 <augur> so did you see the Mecofrom dicussion?
03:00:01 <augur> a new esolang we've decided to make
03:00:04 <augur> everything has a co
03:00:10 <augur> expressions have coexpressions
03:00:14 <augur> which run in cotime
03:00:19 <augur> which is perpendicular to normal time
03:00:21 <oklopol> i don't know all that much about category theory
03:00:25 <augur> (tho its not complex time)
03:00:40 <oklopol> well i guess that sounds interesting
03:00:42 <augur> its not about category theory, its just crazy thats all
03:00:57 <augur> co-cotime is just time
03:01:01 <augur> but according to the spec
03:01:08 <augur> co-cotime is not the same as cocoa-time
03:01:17 <augur> cocoa-time being when the program gives the programmer hot chocolate
03:01:54 <augur> we're undecided yet whether the spec should make marshmallows optional or required
03:02:24 <augur> ofcourse, co-cocoa-time would have co-marshmallows and the cup would fill as you drank it.
03:03:03 <oerjan> ahem, co-cocoa-time is just coa-time
03:03:19 <augur> thats (co-cocoa)-time
03:03:23 <augur> i mean co-(cocoa-time)
03:03:46 <augur> we've decided that co-ality should be distributive too
03:03:52 <augur> sort of like matrix multiplication
03:04:08 <augur> co-( X op Y ) = co-X co-op co-Y
03:05:25 <augur> co-how co-are co-you?
03:08:30 <oklopol> oerjan: ahem, co-cocoa-time is just coa-time <<< no, it's just a-time.
03:08:43 <oklopol> i can't really count to that many,
03:09:31 <augur> co-co-co-a-time is just co-a-time
03:11:21 <oklopol> yes yes, i failed, don't rub it in my face i'm tired and i'm stupid yes i am yes
03:12:16 <augur> his (non)dispute using qualia has been well covered by far smarter people than he
03:12:28 <augur> tho he probably doesn't even know who they are ;)
03:12:34 <augur> SICP died on me :(
03:12:58 <augur> oklopol, just leave the room :P
03:13:57 <augur> you're finnish, you've got leet skillz like that
03:14:01 <oerjan> you see, his house is buried by a freak snowstorm
03:14:20 <augur> hes finnish, they can walk through snow
03:14:24 <augur> they evolved to deal with it
03:14:57 <oklopol> i have psychological issues
03:15:13 <augur> but youre so so pretty it doesnt matter
03:15:29 <oklopol> but yeah you were right, that is one stupid crackpot
03:15:46 <augur> #ai seems to attract them
03:15:53 <augur> ive met atleast 3 so far there
03:15:54 <oklopol> you haven't even seen my current pics!
03:16:01 <augur> show me your current pics! :o
03:16:22 <augur> then you cant say i havent seen them
03:16:26 <augur> since they dont even exist!
03:16:36 <augur> i can't not have seen them!
03:16:49 <augur> vacuously true, oklopol.
03:16:49 <oklopol> i'm a bit drunk on coffee right now
03:16:52 <augur> if they dont exist
03:16:58 <augur> then i have seen them and i havent seen them
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03:19:28 <oklopol> okay, now which is the programmer and which is the gay guy who wants a piece of me?
03:20:03 <oklopol> think about that for a while
03:22:40 <oklopol> god i hate non-behaviorists when i'm tired
03:22:57 <oklopol> why don't they ban that guy
03:23:14 <oklopol> god i hate you when i'm tired
04:08:43 <oklopol> and what i mean by that is
04:08:46 <oklopol> perhaps i should start getting home
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04:57:22 <oklopol> My name is botte and I am young but learning the ways of the BOT!
04:57:25 <oklopol> I wish to be a bot on the irc network of free nodes! I am BOTTE and I stand PROUD HERE TODAY!!!!
04:57:28 <oklopol> I hope you accept me in to your HACKER CIRCLE where I will hack and bot!
04:57:34 <oklopol> p.s. I am not up yet but I will be!! I am botte!
04:57:50 <oklopol> who is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt?
05:04:11 <oklopol> psygnisfive: so perhaps you?
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05:56:39 <oklopol> if so, you've already asked, and i know it somewhat
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05:58:43 <oklopol> i'm going to sleep in two minutes, so be fast :D
06:07:04 <psygnisfive> whats your aim screenname or something? :P
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13:27:57 * Hiato1 wades through the corpses to check if anyone is still breathing
13:29:28 <Hiato1> Slereah7: May I enquire as to how much linguistics tickles you?
13:31:31 <Hiato1> well, essentially, would you do me a favour and peep around http://eyo.icr38.net/phorum/ ?
13:37:15 <Slereah7> Why, are you BANNED or something?
13:37:34 <Slereah7> This forum has a total of 8 posts.
13:41:55 <ihope> I like novelty, you see.
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14:03:58 <ihope> "Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?"
14:04:38 <ihope> "Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure."
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15:41:07 <ais523> seen the latest stuff going on over at Agora?
15:41:46 <ais523> how are you typing, then?
15:42:10 <ais523> oh dear, that must be tricky
15:42:16 <ais523> although I've done it myself from time to time
15:42:51 <ais523> I used to have a wireless mouse
15:42:54 <ais523> but got a wired one for that reason
15:43:12 <ehird> i wishb it waasmose...
15:44:44 <ais523> anyway, it was a serious comment about Agora
15:44:52 <ais523> some people there thought you weren't getting messages
15:44:56 <ais523> and tried to deactivate you
15:45:08 <ais523> as in, you're still active
15:45:20 <ais523> because it's being done on the backup lists
15:46:01 <ais523> because the main ones are down, that's the usual reason to use a backup list
15:47:10 <ehird> whwerr fuckinn batrys
15:48:32 * ais523 is amused at what on-screen typing looks like, it's almost as if ehird is drunk
15:49:14 <ais523> ehird: anyway I did vote FOR on your AGORA proposal on PerlNomic in the en
15:49:26 <ais523> so as to cause the PNP to submit the FOR vote to a-b when it was down
15:49:31 <ais523> mostly because I wanted to see what would happen
15:49:49 <ais523> ehird: I've CFJd on the statement that it voted validly
15:50:55 <ais523> http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/private/agora/
15:51:01 <ais523> that one works even without subscription
15:51:07 <ais523> and it's where I'm mostly posting at the moment
15:55:04 <ihope> The main lists are down?
15:55:30 <ais523> you just posted to tue, though, so you must have posting to backups working
15:55:34 <pikhq> Just use the backup list.
15:55:45 <ihope> Well, yes, they are.
15:55:45 <pikhq> Which is on a different server.
15:55:53 <ihope> ehird, are you subscribed to the backup lists?
15:58:08 <ihope> Subscribe to them.
15:58:18 <ais523> ihope: what, without a keyboard?
15:58:20 <ais523> that would be difficult
15:58:45 <ihope> I don't suppose your on-screen keyboard has common digraphs and trigraphs.
15:59:27 <Hiato1> it's the return of the ehird, part I
15:59:38 <pikhq> No *keyboard*? Ouch.
15:59:40 <Hiato1> and Slereah for that matter
15:59:41 <ais523> Hiato1: an ehird without a keyboard, it seems
15:59:59 * ais523 was under the impression computers didn't even boot without a keyboard
16:00:08 <ais523> but maybe that's just PCs, probably Macs are different
16:00:19 <Hiato1> Slereah7: In answer to a question you posed way earlier: no, I'm not banned, but are you interested ?
16:00:52 <Hiato1> ais523, I must disagree here, I even managed to dupe it past the post without anything but a cpu connected. How could I tell, the beeping was right :P
16:01:01 <pikhq> ais523: That's only certain BIOSes.
16:01:08 <ehird> ais523: it was already booted
16:01:11 <ehird> I just took it off standby
16:01:13 -!- ehird has changed nick to tusho.
16:01:13 <Hiato1> Well, that's why I asked if linguistics interested you :P
16:01:33 <tusho> Fuck. I hate this keyboard, I just remembered.
16:01:39 <tusho> I need to do dances to get a #
16:01:41 <Slereah7> Not enough that I actually want to do it :o
16:02:21 <Hiato1> tusho/ehird, whoever you be, is that a legendary DVORAK keyboard? :P
16:02:41 <tusho> an apple british one
16:02:44 <tusho> and it FUCKING SUCKS
16:02:55 <tusho> to comment out something
16:03:07 <tusho> and alt is where the windows key is on most keyboards
16:03:09 <ais523> tusho: time to get your emacs-fu ready, then
16:03:11 <tusho> FUCKING THING SUCKS
16:03:19 <tusho> ais523: no, I think it's time to remap
16:03:37 <tusho> I must type £ as well
16:03:42 <tusho> and this has less keys than normal keyboards
16:04:20 <Hiato1> be careful, you might just see you... never-mind, you already did :P
16:04:22 <tusho> but now I need alt-3 to get £
16:04:33 <tusho> ais523: though I don't type £ that much
16:04:52 <tusho> but I do have a soft spot for that shitty crashy thing
16:04:54 <ais523> besides, I once worked for a while on a keyboard on which neither B nor Y were working
16:04:55 * Hiato1 wonders how much that doggy is on the window, and whether tusho can tell him
16:05:00 <ais523> on a BBC micro, which had no persistence
16:05:18 * tusho fuddles about with os x
16:05:24 <tusho> ok, I think I'm comfortable with it now
16:05:30 <tusho> ready to take on the world, and do lots of eso-things
16:05:32 <ais523> I had to do stuff like mess around with Basic programs which printed out Y from its character code, just to generate the character to remap it
16:05:42 <Hiato1> ais523, how would you explain to people which keys were not functioning? :P
16:05:50 <tusho> Hiato1: the onle between t and u
16:05:57 <ais523> Hiato1: CHR$(ASC("Z")-1) is what I did
16:06:01 <ais523> and then mapped that to an f-key
16:06:01 <tusho> Which backups lists do I need to dubscribe to
16:06:12 <ais523> they're both linked from http://agoranomic.org
16:06:30 <tusho> ais523: I think we've lost a special bond now that my computer doesn't crash when you arrive.
16:06:36 <tusho> agoranomic.org is down
16:06:55 <ais523> no it isn't unless I have it cached, but I'll link them separately anyway
16:07:02 <ais523> http://www.listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora
16:07:07 <ais523> http://yoyo.its.monash.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/nomic
16:07:09 <tusho> oh, and FGSFDS: Mail.app doesn't recognize my gmail labels
16:07:19 <tusho> gotta do it man-you-all-ee
16:07:38 <tusho> I get gmail thru pop
16:09:30 <ais523> pikhq: you aren't a member of PerlNomic?
16:09:38 <ais523> I'm mildly surprised at that
16:09:38 <pikhq> I don't know Perl.
16:09:50 <ais523> pikhq: quite a few people there don't, AFAICT
16:09:54 <ais523> anyway I translated the rules into English
16:10:02 <ais523> I'm trying to make it user-friendly for non-Perlers
16:10:25 <pikhq> I'd rather learn Perl first, and make horridly obscure rules. :p
16:10:33 <pikhq> 21353214;[], anyone?
16:10:54 <ais523> except you need to write something after the comma
16:10:56 <ais523> to make it grammatical
16:11:12 <pikhq> ... That's almost syntactically well-formed?
16:11:19 <ais523> what you have there is "ignore the number 21353214, then create a reference to an empty list and discard it, then"
16:11:30 <ihope> Perhaps the PNP should post to all three servers at once.
16:11:32 <ais523> which almost makes sense but ends halfway through a statement
16:11:51 <tusho> pikhq: C almost supports that
16:11:54 <tusho> if it supported [] list syntax
16:11:54 <ais523> tusho: that's wrong under use strict
16:12:03 <pikhq> tusho: Doesn't make it any better. ;)
16:12:04 <tusho> ais523: a was a placeholder
16:12:12 <ais523> oh, unless you have a function called a
16:12:59 <ais523> pikhq: luckily Perl's garbage-collected or your [] would be a memory leak
16:13:02 <tusho> HAHAHAHAHAHA MAIL.APP FAILS AT IMAP AND GMAIL
16:13:07 <tusho> ais523: it's refcounted
16:13:19 <ais523> tusho: refcounting's a sort of garbage-collection
16:13:26 <pikhq> Reference counting is considered a form of garbage collection.
16:13:27 <ais523> not a general one but good enough in many cases
16:13:32 <ihope> Have I made any posts to yoyo that you can see?
16:13:33 <tusho> pikhq: only by sillies
16:13:44 <pikhq> A very, very simple one, mind, but a form, nevertheless.
16:13:48 <ais523> ihope: I've got one you posted to tue, but none to yoyo
16:14:29 <ais523> ah, your posts to yoyo went through
16:14:29 <ais523> but I was having yoyo problems then
16:14:30 <tusho> hahahahahahhahahahahaha, I don't have an Inbox
16:14:42 <tusho> because I can only have All Mail
16:14:42 <ais523> to be precise, I'd subscribed to tue but not yoyo...
16:16:32 <ais523> tusho: subscribed yet?
16:16:51 <tusho> ais523: I'm still fixing mail.app
16:16:55 <tusho> gmail's imap is uh BROKEN
16:18:09 <tusho> I'ma use the web interface
16:18:28 <tusho> because it's not TOATLLY BROKEN
16:18:58 <ihope> Cool, Gmail tries to resend messages if it can't connect to the server.
16:19:12 <tusho> yoyo link plz ihope
16:19:28 <ais523> http://yoyo.its.monash.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/nomic (although I'm not ihope)
16:20:49 <ais523> internet was down for a few seconds
16:21:15 <tusho> Link to yoyo & tue archives?
16:21:36 <ais523> well, if you can't follow links from the pages I just linked, I can paste them for you
16:21:53 <ais523> http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/private/agora/ (tue)
16:22:05 <tusho> already read that one
16:22:08 <tusho> I need the yoyo one
16:22:33 <ais523> for some reason yoyo's just started timing out on me
16:22:36 <ais523> but then, so has B Nomic
16:22:40 <ais523> so I think it's my connection
16:22:49 <tusho> hey, look, I did apologise
16:22:51 <tusho> that's kind of them
16:22:52 <ais523> http://yoyo.its.monash.edu.au/pipermail/nomic/
16:23:27 <ihope> ais523: did I recommend that ehird do something?
16:24:00 <tusho> What are the actual addresses for yoyo and tue?
16:24:09 <tusho> I need to set up a filter for my label
16:24:20 <ais523> agora@listserver.tue.nl (agora-bounces for the return)
16:24:44 <ais523> nomic@yoyo.its.monash.edu.au (nomic-bounces for the return)
16:24:52 <ais523> I just filtered BAK: in the subject, though
16:25:39 <ihope> "what, without a keyboard" would seem to be an appropriate response to such a thing, and I don't know why else you would say it.
16:25:42 <tusho> ais523: the return?
16:25:59 <tusho> and I have a kb now, ihope
16:26:22 <ais523> ihope: it was a response to a quesiton, rather than a recommendation
16:26:36 <ais523> you asked if ehird was subscribed, and I said it would be difficult without a keyboard
16:27:11 <tusho> ais523: you know what I love? Consistent clipboard behaviour. <3
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16:28:52 <tusho> ais523: Cmd-c, cmd-v.
16:28:55 <tusho> Nothing else. Excellent.
16:29:20 <pikhq> Select, middle click. Wonderful.
16:29:24 <ihope> Huh. I wonder why my messages are coming in in chunks.
16:29:37 <ihope> I don't think you all just decided to say lots and lots within one second.
16:30:29 <tusho> pikhq: And, uh, ctrl-c.
16:30:35 <tusho> And ctrl-shift-c/v for terminals.
16:30:40 <tusho> Oh, and those clipboards are seperate!
16:30:49 <pikhq> tusho: I use KDE. . .
16:31:11 <pikhq> KDE's clipboard is, at least on my system, set to be integrated with the X11 clipboard.
16:31:26 <pikhq> So, I just have the one clipboard, really.
16:31:41 <ihope> At the moment, I'm getting a block of messages every two minutes.
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16:36:22 <ais523> I'm leaving for a bit; I'll be back in maybe about an hour
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16:37:18 <ihope> <Hiato1> ais523, how would you xplain to popl which kys wr not functioning? :P
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17:49:56 <Slereah7> Not a special one, 'cause I didn't get one.
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17:50:12 <ais523> well, tusho tends to be fastest at saying hi to me
17:50:23 <ais523> but a special hi to Slereah as they were fastest this time
17:53:51 <tusho> why didn't xchat beep?
17:54:34 <Slereah> Because you touch yourself at night.
17:55:09 <tusho> Slereah: So does xchat
17:55:26 <Slereah> Did we get 3 new users today?
17:55:44 <Slereah> The wiki seems to be quite active nowadays.
17:56:16 <ais523> well, I'm trying to check
17:56:25 <ais523> my web access seems ridiculously slow for some reason
17:56:31 <ais523> IRC seems to be fine, though
18:06:31 <pikhq> Having to lug a CRT monitor around is not fun.
18:06:32 <Hiato> yeah, why'd you do it? Hey? :P
18:06:39 <pikhq> Especially in the middle of a heat wave.
18:07:02 <Hiato> gladly swap, lugging around an LCD in subzero (kelvin :P)
18:07:30 <tusho> typoing kelvin for celcius
18:07:34 <tusho> in the context of sub-zero
18:07:45 <pikhq> Done. I have a coat, but I'm afraid I don't have personal air conditioning.
18:08:00 <Hiato> damn, no deal then pikhq
18:08:01 <pikhq> And I hail from Colorado. The *cold* isn't that big of a deal. ;)
18:08:43 <Hiato> well aren't you high and mighty? :P
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18:22:06 <tusho> ais523: The windows 3.1 Hot Dog Stand theme, XP version: http://jgroome.com/killmenow.jpg
18:27:41 <pikhq> And it hurt just as badly in Windows 3.1. . .
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18:42:24 <tusho> that was odd, when he leaves it's not usually by peer
18:42:29 <tusho> and it's not usually at this time
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18:45:41 <ais523> sorry, connection troubles
18:49:21 <ais523> tusho: I did, but in a different channel
18:49:34 <ais523> although this isn't really "saying", more typing
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20:08:51 <Slereah> http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1213036183625.png
20:18:03 <oklofok> tusho: to comment out something | tusho: Alt-3 <<< you usually have it in one keypress?
20:18:23 <ais523> oklofok: e means putting # at the start of a line of Perl to comment it out
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20:19:49 <tusho> oklofok: I do, yes
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20:24:12 <oklofok> "#" is one of the most used commenting-out characters
20:24:29 <ais523> and # is one keypress on this keyboard
20:24:35 <ais523> not to mention shift is easier to find than alt
20:24:40 <oklofok> i'm just saying you should know i know, which you implied you didn't
20:25:25 <tusho> but yeah, I've got it nicer now
20:25:33 <tusho> instead of the other way around
20:26:41 <tusho> Slereah: It is 'magic wand'.
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20:55:35 <ais523> anyway, I found a program to help with my huge diffing problem I had recently
20:55:45 <ais523> apparently the interdiff command is capable of diffing diffs
20:55:49 <ais523> and therefore makes a diff4 possible
20:59:06 <olsner> ooh, diffing diffs! I'd like that
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21:14:29 <tusho> Music seems to make me less productive when coding.
21:15:27 <Slereah> As opposed to... More productive?
21:15:35 <tusho> Slereah: That's the case with most people.
21:18:19 <tusho> apparently instrumental music is better for coding
21:18:52 <ais523> I often have music when coding, actually
21:19:44 <tusho> the problem with my music is that since my tastes are so eclectic I end up skipping a lot to find something I want to hear
21:19:49 <tusho> (Playlists? What are they? Shut up.)
21:22:44 <olsner> when I know what I'm doing and just have to type it in, music usually makes me more productive (or at least *feel* more productive)
21:23:15 <olsner> but when it's mostly mulling over and figuring out how to do something, silence is usually best
21:33:06 <Hiato> tusho: I feel your pain :) (I know it's delayed, but it happens)
21:37:29 <ihope> Try listening to noise of various spectra instead of music. :-)
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21:37:45 <tusho> ihope: I think they call that merzbow
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21:38:14 <Hiato> spectral radiation listening :)
21:38:23 <Hiato> *that is to say astronomical
21:38:34 <ihope> Hmm, so everybody who's listening will get pretty much the same noise.
21:38:48 <tusho> Hiato: I was joking.
21:39:11 <Hiato> assuming we live in the same dimension (which is debatable to say the least), ihope
21:39:59 <ihope> I'm living in about 6 feet 3. You?
21:40:00 <tusho> Merzbow is, alas, something I cannot stomach.
21:40:02 <tusho> Wait, why is that alas? It's noise!
21:40:47 <Hiato> who was that Greek composer that delved into the field of "accidental composition and recital"? That was noise :)
21:47:43 <ais523> oh, you know ehird was talking about lazy typed rewriting langs?
21:47:47 <ais523> I think I thought up a way it was possible
21:48:03 <ais523> it requires not only lazy and typed, but also declarative
21:48:22 <tusho> ais523: did you hear how I made it ref.trans and functional while still allowing IO?
21:48:25 <ais523> laziness is done by backward chaining of refriting rules
21:48:26 <tusho> it's like monads, but rewriting-based
21:48:37 <tusho> it is a good base for the eso os, I think
21:48:46 <ais523> so rules only run if they're needed to give a result
21:48:48 <ais523> tusho: no, I don't think so
21:48:53 <ais523> I wonder if the ideas could be combined
21:49:11 <ais523> to produce a lazy declarative functional typed referentially transparent rewriting language
21:49:27 <tusho> ais523: and then, write a C implementation that exposes dangerous primitives
21:49:45 <tusho> ais523: installing a program == the OS rewrites itself to include the program
21:49:52 <ais523> nah, my idea's horrendously inefficient
21:50:00 <tusho> you can overwrite anything in the OS at runtime
21:50:02 <tusho> it just rewrites itself
21:50:05 <ais523> it requires a brute-force search to do anything, at present
21:50:12 <tusho> ais523: I'm sure you can optimize it somehow.
21:52:12 <ais523> tusho: you could have rewriting rules that always reverse-fail, but tell it not to consider other rewriting rules
21:52:37 <tusho> and a prolog-style inferrence engine
21:52:39 <ais523> reverse-fail here means that although they would produce the right result, there's no way that the thing being rewritten could come about in the first place
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22:24:55 <tusho> Does select(1) allow you to detect the socket being closed?
22:25:16 <ais523> it returns an event on that socket
22:25:26 <ais523> I can't remember whether it also errors itself
22:25:39 <ais523> or whether you have to check for error explicitly on the socket
22:26:16 <tusho> ok, I think I have a good model for this
22:26:30 <tusho> ais523: I'm making everything callbacks and not hardcoding any sort of event handling (not even connection stuff)
22:26:31 <olsner> if select says it's readable, but reads or ioctls say it doesn't have readable data, that means the socket's closed, iirc
22:27:03 <tusho> then Botte itself will subclass Client and handle those things
22:27:04 <olsner> and server sockets need different handling of course
22:27:10 <tusho> by adding the appropriate events
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