00:02:25 <ihope> Is Chomsky the grammar guy?
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00:09:37 <Slereah7> Why in basic are the lines numbered 10-20...
00:09:48 <ihope> Can you have a line numbered 1.5?
00:10:05 <tusho> Slereah7: So you can insert ones.
00:10:12 <tusho> Without renumbering the whole problem
00:11:44 <ihope> I mean, why wouldn't one want to be expelled from a repellant?
00:11:59 <ihope> By which I must mean repellent, as my spell checker says so.
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00:18:35 <ihope> You should read Order of the Stick?
00:54:53 <Slereah7> "Thanks funny site <a href=" with cramps ">fuck me pumps</a> hppy"
00:55:03 <Slereah7> Does this really describe Chris Barker?
00:56:11 <tusho> ihope: Revert time.
00:56:30 <tusho> Chris Barker article.
00:56:39 <ihope> (Which I assure you doesn't mean what you interpreted it as.)
01:12:54 <tusho> It is impossible to translate true oklo texts.
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02:07:25 <tusho> ihope: Delayed much?
02:08:01 * ihope pops into #implang
02:08:23 <ihope> I don't remember any words. I need someone to remind me of them. :-P
02:08:34 <ihope> Well, I guess I could just consult the logs. But how boring.
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02:21:01 <ihope> Hmm, now I'll have to spout gibberish somewhere else.
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04:19:48 <augur> what are some good ways to verify TC-ness?
04:20:16 <augur> should i just try to implement a basic turing machine?
05:22:02 <augur> ive got some more stuff for the language
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05:50:35 <GregorR> It's usually easier to implement something which is itself equivalent to a Turing machine.
05:50:46 <GregorR> Such as Brainfuck, or lambda calculus (depending on the type of language)
05:52:32 <augur> | well im going to have lambdas, which i suppose means its TC?
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08:55:42 <oklopol> why the fuck would anyone wanna program in english? well, that kind of imperative verbose shit anyway, i guess it might be nice to be able to code like "make me an awesome 3d game"
09:14:06 <oklopol> tusho: why do non-internet-experienced people SOMETIMES ASK QUESTIONS IN ALL CAPS? <<< caps make more sense, i think they have the same dislike for characters with random sizes that i do
09:15:01 <oklopol> i wish small letters were the big ones, but small
09:17:29 <oklopol> tusho: What about an esolang designed for making electronic music? <<< been on it for some time
09:17:32 <oklopol> but i'm on so many thing i doubt i'll ever get down
09:18:35 <oklopol> okoing doesn't convey information, except the occasional "i don't really give a shit, hear me oko instead"
09:20:17 <oklopol> yay i like it when people shut up while i'm logreading
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12:25:04 <oklopol> about the flow thingie, here's some of my python interps output and sample code http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p335414614.txt
12:25:19 <oklopol> must be parsed manually atm
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13:36:02 <oklopol> ircbrowse says it's searchable, is it really? i can't search with it
13:40:14 <oklopol> 00:55:01 <ehird> slereah__: [08:49] <slereah__> Because Kronecker was a giant dick.
13:40:14 <oklopol> 00:55:07 <ehird> My mind read 'was' as 'had'
13:40:52 <Slereah7> And Osama quoted Kronecker in the instruction manual of Plain English :o
13:41:21 <oklopol> I WANNA SEARCH THE FUCKING LOGS
13:41:31 <oklopol> #esoteric logs are the only thing i've ever had to search
13:41:43 <Slereah7> site:[site of the logs] keywords
13:41:54 <oklopol> yes, but how to search so that it actually works?
13:42:51 <oklopol> Slereah site:http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/
13:43:06 <oklopol> http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&q=http%3A%2F%2Ftunes.org%2F%7Enef%2Flogs%2Fesoteric&btnG=Google-haku&meta=
13:43:26 <oklopol> http://www.google.fi/search?hl=fi&q=Slereah+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Ftunes.org%2F%7Enef%2Flogs%2Fesoteric&btnG=Hae&meta=
13:43:35 <Slereah7> http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Afr%3Aofficial&hs=AQk&q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Ftunes.org%2F%7Enef%2Flogs%2Fesoteric%2F&btnG=Rechercher&meta=
13:43:49 <Slereah7> Yeah, it doesn't seem to go into thelog files
13:44:12 <oklopol> asdadsasdasdasdasdasdsadasdsadasdsadsadsads
13:44:21 <oklopol> okay, i'll make the fucking python script
13:59:48 <oklopol> the first years of esoteric logs are basically lament's join/quit messages :D
14:00:31 <oklopol> so they're prolly not the first years
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14:17:15 <oklopol> hmm... why the fuck am i loading years i wasn't on this channel during
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14:28:11 <oklopol> i thought it was 99 or smth, don't know where i'd gotten that
14:32:06 <oklopol> 02:22:19 <lament> hm, there doesn't seem to be a mandelbrot generator in brainfuck <<< 03.01.21
14:32:12 <oklopol> lament: is that ready yet?
14:33:05 <oklopol> 02:22:22 <lament> i should fix that
14:33:11 <Slereah7> http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/mandelbrot.b
14:34:44 <oklopol> well, i guess lament's way is to make others do stuff
14:34:52 <Slereah7> And IIRC, Lament has a terribly russian name.
14:36:16 <oklopol> lament, dbc and fizzie seem to be the only ones still active
14:38:13 <Slereah7> I don't remember the last time dbc or fizzie talked.
14:38:53 <oklopol> dbc is a bf wiz, fizzie is occasionally triggered by finland / finnish :P
14:38:57 <Slereah7> Oh, you mean from the olden days?
14:39:14 <oklopol> they are on the channel, and they're not full idlers
14:39:19 <Slereah7> Wait, that's not finnish enough.
14:39:26 <oklopol> so they are somewhat active
14:39:50 <oklopol> using characters finnish doesn't have *does* make it seem more finnish, yes
14:40:15 <Slereah7> It's a strange strange world, oklopol
14:40:21 <Slereah7> Especially when Finland is involved.
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14:48:21 <ihope_> I didn't know I was two people.
14:48:34 <ihope_> This probably has something to do with my IP address being 64.241.37.140, doesn't it?
14:49:04 <oklopol> ihope: now try to figure it out
14:49:19 <oklopol> you might wanna start with factoring out the numbers
14:49:52 <oklopol> Slereah7: yeah, your latter answer was correct
14:49:53 <Slereah7> Maybe the clue is in the XKCD number steps of its look-and-say sequence :o
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15:29:35 <Slereah7> ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
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15:37:15 <oklopol> okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
15:37:56 <Slereah7> I think it's time to have oklopol commited
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16:06:37 <tusho> hhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
16:07:18 <Slereah7> Stop it. You sound like a power line.
16:08:39 <Slereah7> Like most awesome line, I stole it from Sam and Max.
16:10:15 <oklopol> i don't need friends anymore, i can just watch south park
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16:10:25 <oklopol> this /hop was like parting
16:10:30 <oklopol> because i don't need friends
16:10:39 <oklopol> but it wasn't a /part, because i didn't wanna miss anything
16:10:40 <Slereah7> South Park is getting too much libertarian.
16:10:55 <Slereah7> Fuck you Trey Parker, we get it you don't like taxes.
16:11:19 <Slereah7> Also known as "South Park republican" nowadays, FOR SOME REASON
16:12:07 <oklopol> all i care about is it surprises me, while making at least some sense
16:14:24 <Slereah7> The ham-fisted political propaganda just make me so mad :o
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16:20:13 <oklopol> but i've only seen the 12th season episodes about 2 times each
16:20:18 <oklopol> so i don't know those that well
16:20:32 <Slereah7> You haven't been paying attention then!
16:20:46 <Slereah7> Here's a hint : When they say "I've really learned something today!"
16:21:42 <oklopol> the addition of "really" does it?
16:21:47 <Slereah7> They're usually the summary of the episode's propaganda.
16:22:01 <Slereah7> In case the viewers are too stupid
16:22:14 <Slereah7> And after seeing the south park forum, I'm not sure what to think
16:22:41 <oklopol> the things i've learned something today contains are pretty middle in every way
16:22:57 <oklopol> and i've always assumed those are a joke
16:23:24 <tusho> oklopol: if it's south park presumably everything is a joke or near it
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16:25:34 <ais523> well, it worked, I think
16:25:38 <ais523> although it didn't shut down properly
16:25:42 <ais523> it got most of the way through shutdown, and then locked up with the caps lock and scroll lock lights flashing
16:25:50 <ais523> and wouldn't respond to anything, not even magic SysRq
16:25:57 <ais523> so I hard-rebooted and it seems fine now
16:26:10 <ais523> haven't tried re-shutting-down, yet, though, I hope it works this time
16:26:47 <tusho> ais523: you took only a segment of Augmatic Disport, so I'd say that's a pretty fast upgrade
16:27:04 <tusho> speaking of which I should upgrade to leopard
16:27:04 <ais523> well, it was only 85 packages
16:27:15 <ais523> that had got their dependencies muddled
16:27:49 <oklopol> Slereah7: if those are propaganda, then trey parker could be teaching @ any kindergarten
16:28:07 <tusho> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/purity.png
16:28:16 <oklopol> 'll continue to think "i've learned something today" is a joke
16:28:23 <tusho> (I linked it that way so that ais523 would click it)
16:28:30 <tusho> (But then you miss out on the alt text. Such is life!)
16:28:36 <tusho> (ais523 has refused to be caught up in the xkcd trap before)
16:28:58 <ais523> tusho: is it a good one? most of xkcd doesn't look all that good
16:29:08 <ais523> some are very funny, but they tend to get linked everywhere anyway
16:29:17 <ais523> so I come across them without the need to visit xkcd
16:29:21 <tusho> ais523: I like most of xkcd, personally
16:29:27 <tusho> but- a lot of them are crap until you read the title text
16:29:32 <tusho> which is, well, the whole point
16:32:02 <tusho> though I guess it's kind of love-hate (say, like dinosaur comics, but less dividing)
16:33:13 <Slereah7> Good thing that XKCD has those awesome graphics when the joke isn't funny.
16:33:19 <Slereah7> You can just sit back and admire.
16:33:24 <tusho> Slereah7: Oh shush you.
16:33:43 <oklopol> xkcd usually makes bad jokes funny
16:33:58 <oklopol> (just like south park, btw :P)
16:34:10 <Slereah7> http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/28/Epic_thread12s.jpg
16:34:27 <tusho> xkcd is divided pretty evenly between bad jokes made funny, good but incredibly geeky jokes, and multi-part comics that don't have punchlines but are still funny
16:34:36 <tusho> so, uh, there's not that much more left :P
16:36:13 <Slereah7> What about those horrible emo comics?
16:36:42 <tusho> Slereah7: but they aren't emo!
16:36:43 <tusho> they fall into the last category.
16:36:45 <Slereah7> The ones about LOVE that don't include 3 lines of equations
16:37:16 <tusho> Slereah7: I think this is a case of 'you didn't get it'
16:37:43 <tusho> unless you're making a joke yourself
16:37:45 <tusho> which would be confusing
16:38:28 <tusho> I've had a conversation with 16 levels of sarcasm before
16:38:35 <tusho> but I've never had infinite levels of anything
16:39:49 <oklopol> okay i admit this sp episode was propaganda :P "you can't change history", fuck you trey, we don't care about your sick beliefs!
16:40:06 <tusho> oklopol: clearly he has never heard of the doctor
16:40:26 <oklopol> Slereah7: the red badge of redness
16:40:49 <Slereah7> Season 1-3 aren't very much propaganda.
16:41:28 <dbc> ais53 did you figure out what depth of brackets you need to write a brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck? I was guessing 2.
16:41:39 <tusho> ais523 (to cause a ping to happen)
16:41:45 <ais523> 2 wouldn't surprise me
16:41:52 <ais523> I suspect it's 2, 3 or 4
16:41:58 <tusho> Well, I would have said like 3 or 4...
16:42:18 <tusho> I mean I didn't think dei would be TC.
16:42:33 <tusho> So matching thingies are overrated.
16:43:40 * tusho forks conversation, tags as 'innuendo' and 'brainfuck'
16:43:49 <tusho> (YES I CAN PRETEND I HAVE ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTED THINGS I THINK OF AIS523)
16:44:06 <ais523> tusho: nah, you'd have to tag each individual comment
16:44:28 <tusho> ais523: it was said in a 'LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU'
16:44:32 <tusho> I wouldn't have to
16:44:46 <tusho> since they don't need to be explicitly retagged
16:44:52 <tusho> they can just flow into another tag
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17:42:34 <tusho> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-html5-diff-20080610/
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17:48:29 <tusho> beh, I just lost the game
17:49:41 <tusho> ais523: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22741
17:49:49 <tusho> specifically, this edit: http://forums.xkcd.com/download/file.php?id=4491
17:50:46 <ais523> that thread's sort of a MFD thread in reverse
17:50:58 <tusho> MFD is unfortunately back
17:51:07 <tusho> Alex is some kind of delusional idiot
17:51:11 <tusho> did he think we really liked it?
17:51:19 <ais523> I don't think he thinks we do
17:52:22 <ais523> but I think he still has a reason for putting it there
17:52:22 <tusho> so what, he hates us with a passion?
17:52:22 <ais523> possibly a non-obvious one
17:52:22 <ais523> maybe he likes the user-created comics
17:52:23 <tusho> ais523: maybe if you read every single one in a certain way
17:52:23 <tusho> there's a stenographic encryption code
17:52:23 <tusho> and Alex is in fact kidnapped
17:52:23 <tusho> but if the encryption code to their doors lock systems are revealed
17:52:23 <tusho> then the fake Alex would be killed by the fbi
17:52:23 <tusho> so he has to encode them by modifying MFD comics subtly before he publishes them
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17:56:01 <tusho> ais523: is that the sound of the fbi agents in here furiously tracking me down
17:56:01 <ais523> they don't make a noise when you do that
17:56:01 <ais523> that's the sound of all the journalists following them around
17:56:05 <tusho> sometimes i hate being right
17:57:23 <tusho> "Interesting. I find MFD to be absolutely hysterical" -Alex
17:57:41 <tusho> i always knew it was wrong for a msftie to run tdwtf
17:57:55 <ais523> what, did you email him
17:58:07 <ais523> or where did you get that comment of Alex's from?
17:58:19 <tusho> which is, as oft pointed out, the real WTF
18:01:37 <tusho> based on a post from that forum
18:01:40 <tusho> I had a dinosaur-comicsy idea
18:01:48 <tusho> you use the same art every day, but you improve it a little every day
18:01:57 <tusho> i.e. start really rough
18:01:59 <tusho> end up really polished
18:02:02 <tusho> then, you draw a new scene
18:02:03 <Slereah7> tusho : but what if you don't?
18:02:06 <tusho> and start all over again
18:04:53 <tusho> "While it may *seem* like copy-paste comicing, it's polymorphism. You see, the later (1.8) inherits from the former (1.3)." -- Alex
18:04:55 <tusho> totally delusional
18:05:09 <ais523> no, that's clearly a joke
18:05:17 <tusho> but it's also a bad one
18:05:21 <tusho> and dodging the question
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18:08:45 <tusho> ais523: "Also, you may have noticed that DoctorFriday was absent from the commentors. This was for good reason: Mark Bowytz is DoctorFriday. "
18:08:46 <tusho> are DoctorFriday's posts as bad as his comics?
18:10:05 * Hiato wonders if the silence is a good time for another shameless plug
18:10:13 * Hiato reaches a resolution
18:10:18 <tusho> ais523: what the hell, can you only reply with images to that MFD page?
18:10:26 <tusho> so people are taking screenshots of text editors
18:10:59 <tusho> http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/1583/psinbmpgm5.jpg HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
18:12:21 <Hiato> <shameless plug> updated the language doccies so there is now an actual reference to check your grammar against and coherent rules, still on http://eyo.icr38.net/phorum </shameless plug>
18:12:21 <tusho> http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1834/omgwtfbbqnx8.jpg oh jeez
18:12:21 <tusho> Hiato: what language
18:12:21 <tusho> proglang or conlang
18:12:21 <Hiato> the spoken/written one :P
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20:27:18 <Slereah> Earlier grouping symbols are after the year 1000, apparently
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21:01:35 <Slereah7> I'm not using any language that has "prout" in its instruction set.
21:01:45 <Slereah7> ("Prout" means "fart" in French)
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21:21:55 <tusho> Slereah7: I think it means Print Out here
21:23:49 <Slereah7> But it still means fart in French
21:51:03 <augur> netsplits are my enemy >|
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22:53:24 <oklopol> augur: did you look at the interp?
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22:55:20 <oklofok> augur: did you look at the interp?
22:55:21 <oklofok> if you have ideas for flow control, i'll gladly add
22:56:11 <augur> yeah i looked at it and didnt understand. :)
22:56:51 <oklofok> where guard can be omitted
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23:02:00 <augur> nothing after no no stop
23:02:13 <augur> wellnowwhat.net/transfers/reactance_ideas.rtf
23:04:03 <oklopol> you've never seen a message sent by me?
23:04:26 <augur> augur: no no stop :P
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23:08:44 <oklopol> i'll check the logs i guess
23:08:56 <augur> you read the ideas?
23:09:42 <oklopol> as an esolang guy i find pure lambdas a bit impure
23:09:46 <augur> i added in some haskel-like functional stuff
23:09:57 <augur> pure lambdas a bit impure?
23:10:59 <augur> i think the functions are actually relevant. firstly, the way they work is obviously just shorthand for some reaction form
23:11:05 <augur> so like i said, something like
23:11:15 <augur> gets processed down into x*2 -> y
23:11:19 <augur> because foo v = v*v
23:11:57 <augur> the pattern matching is just an extension on decomposition
23:12:22 <augur> if 2,3 -> a,b is equivalent to 2 -> a, 3 -> b
23:12:39 <augur> then why cant [2,3] -> [x,y] be similar?
23:13:32 <oklopol> i just don't like the idea of non-flow definition of functions :D
23:13:43 <augur> well, they're just shorthands tho, remember
23:13:50 <augur> x*x isn't flow related
23:14:12 <augur> f x = x*x is just shorthand
23:14:36 <augur> plus, we need some primitive funtions for doing stuff like math, or delays
23:14:37 <oklopol> higher order reactions for functions: ([a] * 5 -> [r]) -> foo; foo 5
23:14:46 <oklopol> where [] is the port syntax
23:15:04 <oklopol> something like this i wouldn't mind
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23:15:58 <augur> that looks more like an actual function tho
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23:16:17 <augur> foo = [a] * 5 -> [r]
23:16:29 <augur> foo = lambda a. a*5
23:18:27 <augur> because foo 5 isn't a reaction
23:18:33 <augur> to make it reactional you'd need something like
23:18:39 <oklopol> that's just syntax for executing the reactions inside f
23:19:03 <oklopol> it's a functional way to use that, yes
23:19:50 <oklopol> that is just a syntactical difference
23:20:05 <oklopol> my way lets you use foo as a function, but keeps it all nice and pure
23:20:15 <augur> come up with an evaluation trace for that method tho
23:20:28 <augur> i'd need to see it
23:20:36 <augur> because i dont see how it'd work.
23:21:13 <oklopol> umm, isn't it kinda trivial
23:21:18 <oklopol> you execute the reactions of foo
23:21:26 <oklopol> but [a] and [r] have a special meaning
23:21:42 <oklopol> they will be removed from the global reaction stack after foo
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23:26:29 <tusho> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Turing_Duck_Test
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23:49:22 <tusho> oklopol: we should code a random implementation of something
23:49:25 <tusho> without thinking about the language
23:49:38 <tusho> and just see what happens
23:50:05 <oklopol> i'm thinking about making this collaborative text editor
23:50:12 <tusho> oklopol: they already exist
23:50:47 <tusho> oklopol: check pms
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