00:00:14 <oklopol> I’m a prayer for your loneliness
00:00:26 <oklopol> From the binds of your lowliness
00:00:28 <tusho> what happened to oklopol
00:00:31 <oklopol> The right slot for your sacred key
00:00:34 <tusho> WHAT HAPPENED TO OKLOPOL
00:00:38 <oklopol> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
00:00:46 <tusho> WHAT HAPPENED TO OKLOPOL
00:00:49 <SimonRC> he grew lots of extra mouths
00:01:01 <oklopol> some times you have to paste cof lyrics
00:01:34 <augur> i'd like to paste YOUR lyrics
00:02:03 <oklopol> I wake up from my dream to see
00:02:09 <oklopol> Blood on my hands and on the floor
00:02:15 <oklopol> I know I'll die before they catch me
00:02:22 <augur> those are horrible lyrics
00:02:31 <oklopol> I know that you came here to kill me
00:02:31 <oklopol> Clinging hard to the knife that I gave thee
00:02:31 <oklopol> It’s a shame you can’t see what is inside
00:02:31 <oklopol> Inside the fact inside the reason
00:02:53 <oklopol> i don't really care for lyrics
00:03:09 <oklopol> just seen people paste them on channels for no reason, so... naturally i have to do that too
00:03:21 <tusho> oklopol: you visit channels with lots of emos
00:03:32 * tusho - providing useful information since sometime
00:03:52 <oklopol> i don't think these are exactly the emo kinda songs
00:04:05 <oklopol> but i guess the pasting may be emoish
00:04:14 <augur> listen to real music, you hippies
00:04:15 <oklopol> randomish can be pretty much anyish.
00:04:38 <oklopol> cradle of filth is not that bad
00:05:54 <oklopol> nothing wrong with kamelot, but i haven't heard much
00:06:05 <augur> actually i only like three songs
00:06:13 <oklopol> i haven't hear much cof either
00:06:25 <augur> descent of the archangel, lost and damnged, and shadow of uther
00:08:17 <oklopol> augur: what's wrong with reflection's lyrics?
00:08:35 <augur> firstly, i dont listen to lyrics
00:08:45 <tusho> second, you're a fag
00:08:50 <augur> theyre almost invariable pointless
00:09:09 <augur> oklopols not gay, he's bi
00:09:29 <tusho> any metal band could release an album where all the lyrics are "THESE LYRICS ARE FUCKING POINTLESS" over and over again
00:09:35 <tusho> i don't think it'd sound noticably different
00:09:58 <oklopol> depends, there's the kind that's supposed to be deep and no one understands it
00:10:03 <oklopol> but then there's the story kind
00:10:22 <oklopol> that's really singing short stories, they can be good stories
00:10:48 <tusho> oh, I also like radohead, which I guess makes me an idiot
00:10:51 <tusho> but I already knew I was an idiot
00:11:15 <augur> some of radiohead is good too.
00:13:12 <oklopol> augur: you didn't answer em
00:13:16 <tusho> augur: you're a javascripter aren't you
00:13:23 <tusho> Feathejs will make you want to kill me
00:13:26 <tusho> it's comprised of two parts
00:13:28 <oklopol> especially the the question last night
00:13:29 <tusho> js2cps, and feathejs
00:13:37 <tusho> js2cps takes javascript source and rewrites it into continuation-passing style.
00:13:47 <tusho> feathejs is compiled with js2cps.
00:13:51 <tusho> augur: it's crazy!
00:14:01 <tusho> but it gives you continuations in java, so yay
00:14:07 <tusho> augur: it's an implementation of ais523's esolang
00:14:12 <tusho> Feather, which lets you retroactively change time
00:14:14 <augur> i have no problem with continuations.
00:14:27 <tusho> augur: yeah, but considering how fragile JS is in the browser in the first place :P
00:14:42 <tusho> and since js2cps is written in JS, i'm using a javascript parser written in javascript
00:14:54 <tusho> and making the browser do the compilation :D
00:15:00 <augur> oklopol: what question??
00:15:09 <oklopol> augur: have you written interpreters
00:15:12 <augur> whats wrong with the lyrics?
00:15:19 <augur> yeah, i've written a number of interpreters.
00:15:33 <augur> what ISNT wrong with them
00:15:48 <oklopol> the latter lyrics were from reflection, which is my song
00:16:01 <tusho> I think oklopol should never make music
00:16:08 <tusho> or at least ... non-instrumental music
00:16:13 <oklopol> tusho: have you heard my music?
00:16:16 <augur> oklopol makes instrumental music?
00:16:57 <oklopol> www.vjn.fi/oklopol in case you're interested
00:17:02 <oklopol> amorte is our current project
00:17:23 <oklopol> i sing, very badly, i sing a lot better nowadays
00:18:07 <oklopol> where did you get it? i want one
00:18:54 <oklopol> i have made a lot of "instrumental music" with guitar pro, but it's midi, so it's not really suited for listening
00:19:12 <tusho> mine is a moog theremin
00:19:13 <tusho> its wodden and black
00:19:25 <oklopol> also with audacity, but for some reason people never seem to like brainfuck.mp3
00:19:27 <tusho> it'd be more awesome if i had one of those big wooden ones but they cost like £1000
00:19:44 <oklopol> (i also used some c++ generated wavs in the song)
00:20:08 <tusho> i also have an alright-kinda guitar.
00:20:24 <tusho> and I have audacity and ableton live on here, but only the trial, so I just fool about with it
00:20:39 <oklopol> and a synthesizer and two digital pianos
00:20:49 <tusho> however, i have an awesome music generator in my head
00:20:54 <tusho> i can just turn it on and it plays out anythiing for me
00:21:06 <tusho> i have all music that I can remember, exactly as I remember it
00:21:13 <tusho> and it'll also generate random songs in any genre I wish
00:21:26 <oklopol> i can do that too, useful for composing
00:21:53 <tusho> oklopol: yeah if only i had real musical talent or knowledge of anything musical I could let everyone else hear it :P
00:22:05 <tusho> because really, they're damn good songs. it just isn't very useful if I'm the only one who can hear them.
00:22:13 <tusho> because the audio in my head isn't as good as the audio in my ears
00:28:15 <oklopol> tusho: for a simple solution, i suggest learning to sing
00:28:23 <tusho> oklopol: but ... i'm 12
00:28:30 <tusho> i sound like a dolphin on helium
00:29:03 <oklopol> i'm not saying you should learn to sing so you can sing your songs to others
00:29:13 <oklopol> but you can sing them so you can write them down
00:29:32 <tusho> oklopol: doesn't help me with any instruments
00:29:41 <tusho> besides, my brain just usually fakes singing
00:29:48 <tusho> it just SOUNDS like vocals :P
00:30:18 <oklopol> just saying singing/humming is the easiest way to get melodies out of the brain
00:30:24 <oklopol> in case that's what you wanna do
00:30:41 <tusho> i'm quite happy with them being in my brain
00:30:44 <oklopol> actual instruments need practise of course, so you'd actually have to do something
00:30:46 <tusho> I'd just like a way to transfer them out
00:31:33 <oklopol> well, you could learn an intuition about intervals, that's something you should do young, if you ever wanna learn it, in fact
00:31:50 <oklopol> hear the relative difference of two notes, that is
00:31:50 <augur> well tusho's young so he's good to go
00:32:11 <augur> oh how it all fits together...
00:32:30 <augur> who saw BSG last night?
00:32:31 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure he'd have trouble getting an absolute hearing for notes
00:32:57 <oklopol> i started @ 7 or something
00:33:00 <augur> i'll be honest, i dont think its impossible for anyone at any age to learn things like that, i just think it depends on how much time you put into it
00:33:17 <augur> 7 year olds dont have lives, so they can spend hours on these things
00:33:31 <tusho> augur: i don't have a life either
00:33:33 <oklopol> yeah, but that is one of the things people say can only be learned young
00:33:45 <augur> well i dont trust people
00:33:46 <oklopol> in order to achieve perfection
00:33:47 <tusho> oklopol: well, I can hear very well.
00:33:56 <oklopol> me neither, but it's clear there's truth in it.
00:34:05 <augur> i dont know oklopol
00:34:18 <tusho> of course the problem is getting motivated enough to do all this before I do get too old :p
00:34:21 <augur> i mean, when you compare how much time a child puts into learning something like that, vs an adult
00:34:30 <augur> and compare the rest of the contents of their lives
00:34:40 <augur> ofcourse a child will learn it better
00:34:43 <oklopol> if an adult wants to learn something, probably more than any child would.
00:34:52 <oklopol> children just learn certain things faster
00:35:08 <augur> i dont know. i'd really need to see some proper studies, and i dont know if any have been done
00:35:40 <oklopol> well, i don't know about studies, just personal experience and hearsay
00:36:00 <oklopol> well, i'm pretty sure i've seen studies
00:36:05 <oklopol> but i don't recall details
00:37:46 <oklopol> tusho: let's hope you won't, at least i can get a career @ music or linguistics once you revolutionize programming to the level anyone can achieve the exact same results
00:38:18 <oklopol> well, i guess plain english already did that!
00:38:23 <tusho> i think i'll do music, linguistics and programming
00:38:25 <tusho> just to piss off oklopol
00:39:14 <tusho> oklopol: there's your career tthen
00:40:35 <augur> im a linguistics major
00:40:46 <augur> oklopol, we were made for one another :O
00:40:49 <tusho> augur: you're even more of a perfect match!!!!!!!!
00:41:04 <augur> ZOMG LETS GET MARRIED
00:41:31 <augur> actually the marriage will have to wait, im going to eat calzone :d
00:41:50 <oklopol> okay, see you in 15 minutes
00:44:24 <tusho> oklopol: my js2cps will be so awesome
00:44:47 <tusho> you could have a silly javascript game
00:44:53 <tusho> and implement savegames just by saving a continuation
00:47:31 <tusho> oklopol: oh, and feathejs is just awesome in many ways
00:47:38 <tusho> oklopol: like, because js2cps is written in javascript itself
00:47:51 <tusho> then, it downloads (via ajax) all the feathejs files
00:48:00 <tusho> then, it runs them through js2cps (in the browser, remember, all of this)
00:48:03 <tusho> then, it eval()s them
00:54:46 <tusho> oklopol: can you remind me of a line that I'm about to say tomorrow plzz0r
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01:02:10 <tusho> augur: i am too lazy to keep a todo list
01:04:27 <tusho> / We're using setTimeout(func, 0) to avoid the stack now
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01:12:52 <tusho> Andrew cooke wiped his website!
01:12:55 <tusho> No more malbolge thingy!!
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01:18:04 <tusho> i sent him an email
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03:15:01 <augur> doctor who almost made me cry :(
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03:19:33 <tusho> oklopol! another thing to remind me tomroorw
03:19:49 <tusho> aptana jaxer is awesome
03:20:38 <tusho> YOU CANT HIDE FROM ME
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09:39:38 <GregorR> I wrote a JIT MIPS->JavaScript compiler (in JavaScript) ... does that make me a bad person? D-8
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15:39:00 * Hiato calls to those alive for an indication of the stipulated status
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15:44:00 <Hiato> Translation: anyone alive?
15:44:21 <Hiato> tusho, say it is so
15:44:37 <Hiato> now, how to bully you into helping me with my esolang
15:45:49 <tusho> hey, andrew cooke replied to my email about broken links
15:46:04 <tusho> .. and he edited the esolangs wiki to fix the link
15:46:34 <Hiato> hoora, well, essentially, uou can find the interpreter here: http://www.rafb.net/p/8SUm5T69.html
15:46:46 <Hiato> tusho: I take it this is a good thing
15:46:55 <tusho> Hiato: yes, andrew cooke wrote the first malbolge program
15:47:09 <Hiato> I don't think it needs much explanation, it should all be evident from the interp.
15:47:20 <pikhq> And for that, I congratulate him.
15:47:26 <tusho> Hiato: well. could i have a brief explanation? :P
15:47:27 <Hiato> wow, that man is a hero amongst men
15:47:58 <tusho> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Malbolge&diff=prev&oldid=11845 and http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Malbolge&diff=next&oldid=11845
15:48:06 <tusho> 86.137.231.14, we salute you!
15:49:49 <Hiato> heh :) well, essentially, I thought: how to eliminate the need for the [ and ] equivalent constructions in a language, and it hit me: what if you repeated apply the entire code over and over again. so essentially there are two commands here: 1xy and 0z. If it is 1xy, where x and why {0;1} then while the data string index matches x write why to the end, increase the index. once this is false, increase the code index and reset the data string
15:50:24 <tusho> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BCT
15:50:33 <Hiato> say it isn't so...
15:50:44 <tusho> i mean, it's not quite that
15:50:46 <tusho> but it's close enough
15:50:49 <tusho> and yes, BCT is TC
15:51:24 <Hiato> well, I'm not sure mine is, it doesn't seem subtraction is possible... ffs
15:51:30 <Hiato> I thought I had something :/
15:51:39 <tusho> Hiato: well the fact that you came up with it independently..
15:52:06 <Hiato> however, much like the competitor of A G Bell...
15:52:28 <Hiato> oh well, nothing lost nothing gained I suppose
15:54:16 <tusho> MISTER AIS523! You just sent email to Agora. You can't hide :P
15:54:43 <Hiato> 1111101110100 and 10 was Fibonacci:
15:54:46 <Hiato> 0 -> 111111110000011111
15:54:48 <Hiato> and 1101111110100 and 1 was powers of two
15:54:57 <Hiato> heh, tusho: he isn't here ;)
15:55:03 <tusho> Hiato: he logreads
15:55:11 <Hiato> oh, right you are :)
15:56:20 <Hiato> oh my, reading the BCT spec, one of my pre-versions is identical... :P
15:57:26 <Hiato> hmm, I don't get this
15:57:26 <Hiato> 0 if the leftmost data-bit is 1, append 0 10
15:57:26 <Hiato> 1 if the leftmost data-bit is 1, append 1 11
15:57:40 <Hiato> surely all 1x does is appends the x to the end if leftmost==1?
15:58:11 * Hiato wonders if log-spamming is punishable
15:58:52 <tusho> Hiato: remember, there are two pointers
15:59:00 * Hiato breathes a deep sigh of relief
15:59:06 <Hiato> yeah, I was being stupid
15:59:50 <tusho> HAHAAHA, I would paste this here but it's too big. #esoteric-blah anyone?
16:01:20 <tusho> 01:39:38 <GregorR> I wrote a JIT MIPS->JavaScript compiler (in JavaScript) ... does that make me a bad person? D-8
16:01:59 <tusho> 07:27:25 --- quit: ais523 ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"")
16:20:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
16:22:30 -!- Deewiant has joined.
16:23:26 -!- ihope has joined.
16:47:40 * Hiato ponders the laws of the universe. Specifically those relating to the proportionality of effort to making something cool and the difficulty setting for coming up with a revolutionary idea - why must it be set to "Delta"?
16:47:40 -!- deveah has joined.
16:48:25 <deveah> gosh, I think I've been here before..
16:49:14 * Hiato Hiato thinks about whether he should think or not
16:49:54 <deveah> this being a chatroom where people do, you should too
16:50:05 <Hiato> and admits his jokes aren't great :P
16:50:57 <Hiato> right then, deveah: let's make an awesome esolang. Something the likes of which have never been seen before
16:51:12 <Hiato> I'm feeling a little case of "stolen thunder complex" so lets hit it
16:51:25 <ihope> And affine geometry!
16:51:35 <Hiato> deveah: most defiantly :P
16:51:49 <deveah> I'd like something to be ported on my Speccy
16:51:51 <Hiato> ihope: this is sounding curiously familiar
16:52:24 <deveah> Opera IRC looks better than I imagined.
16:53:09 <Hiato> is it better than Pidgin? (though I could never really leave FFX3)
16:53:35 <deveah> first, I'd like someone to explain what is and how does lambda calculus work?
16:53:44 <tusho> Hiato: pidgin is the worst irc client ever
16:53:55 <tusho> deveah: the programming language before programming languages
16:53:58 <deveah> Pidgin eats around 18 mb of memory. Miranda eats 8, Yahoo! 50
16:54:02 <tusho> and, uh, beta-reduction and alpha-conversion and stuff
16:54:08 <ihope> Good ol' lambda calculus. It's fun. :-)
16:54:08 <tusho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus
16:54:11 <Hiato> tusho: maybe, but it is part of an otherwise godly multi-protocol package in my view
16:54:29 <deveah> yes, but I'm too young to understand what's there
16:54:38 <Hiato> let's not start a war here though :P
16:54:44 <ihope> Every value is a function; this function takes a function and returns a function. It can simply return its argument, or return a value that has nothing to do with its argument, or it can apply other functions to each other and return the result.
16:54:49 <Hiato> and I agree with deveah
16:55:19 <deveah> okay, I think I understand
16:55:19 <Hiato> to understand the page in question
16:55:41 <tusho> deveah: hey, I'm the youngest person here and I understand most of that :P
16:55:46 <tusho> nothing to do with age but yes the page is pretty dense
16:55:50 <Hiato> makes one of you deveah ;)
16:55:51 <tusho> what ihope said, basically
16:55:57 <tusho> deveah: well, how old are you?
16:56:02 <Hiato> and once more, I agree with deveah
16:56:38 <Hiato> if tusho==ehird: ehird.age=17+some
16:56:46 <deveah> for the first time I meet someone who is younger than me and doesn't join random chatrooms and starts calling everybody names
16:57:02 <tusho> deveah: WE WERE MADE FOR EACH OTHER!!11!!1
16:57:03 <ihope> The syntax for a function is \x -> E, where E is some expression that might involve x. If I apply this function to an argument, I get the expression E, but with x replaced with the argument.
16:57:06 <Hiato> wait, I have proof too
16:57:18 <ihope> And I finally meet someone younger than me as well. :-)
16:57:25 <deveah> does anybody here use Basic (any kind) ?
16:57:26 <tusho> ihope: The syntax is (λx. x) :-P
16:57:40 <tusho> deveah: I imagine most of us have used some form of basic at some point.
16:57:43 <Hiato> I recall clearly talking about some bubblegum make last year which would make you about 20 years to young to have had it
16:57:57 <Hiato> and ihope: you are all younger then me, I feel... stupid :P
16:58:04 <tusho> Hiato: I don't recall :-P
16:58:05 <Hiato> deveah: does pascal count?
16:58:15 <deveah> if Pascal = Basic, yes
16:58:16 <ihope> It's some symbol, a letter, some other symbol, the expression. Could be λ and ., \ and ->, ^ and ., many other things.
16:58:25 <Hiato> well, then I'll say yeah
16:58:30 <tusho> pascal isn't basic
16:58:33 <tusho> its syntax is similar, though
16:59:18 <Hiato> PS: I'm still determined to prove tusho/ehird's age is >12 :P
16:59:30 <tusho> Hiato: what would be proof? :-P
17:00:49 <Hiato> anything non-circumstantial, say a log, in which you alluded to a fact indicative of an older generation, which also was, beyond reasonable doubt, indicative that you did not acquire the knowledge elsewhere
17:01:08 <ihope> I guess tusho's behavior is consistent with his being 12.
17:01:09 <tusho> Hiato: I mean how could I prove my age.
17:01:16 <tusho> ihope: Oh thanks. :_P
17:01:34 <Hiato> tusho: it's beyond me, but I'm determined ;)
17:01:43 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
17:01:48 <ihope> Let me rephrase that to not seem insulting. Tusho's being 12 is consistent with his behavior. :-)
17:02:08 <Hiato> still the hint of arrogance ;)
17:02:19 <Hiato> ihope,what be your age?
17:02:20 <deveah> I remember now... I was hare on #freebasic!
17:02:27 <ihope> Now it seems to be lunchtime. See y'some later.
17:02:30 <Slereah_> Like "Tusho's being 12 is consistent with the size of his dick"
17:02:30 <tusho> Hiato: ihope is 15
17:02:40 <ihope> Hiato: guess. Or what tusho said. :-P
17:02:44 <deveah> ha! he's too old for us!
17:02:47 <Hiato> wow, I am mentally deprived :P
17:03:10 <tusho> Hiato: how old are you anyway? :P
17:03:25 <augur> what is it with all you being children?!
17:03:41 <Hiato> augur, what is your number?
17:04:04 <Hiato> *cough* better than 12 *cough* :P
17:04:32 <tusho> I'm like 10x better rite
17:04:53 <deveah> well, it's known that most Romanian people are very smart, so are any of you Romanian?
17:05:07 <tusho> that sounds like crap to me :p
17:05:07 <Hiato> oh, yeah, sure... you'll have to wait until your older to understand that :)
17:05:21 <tusho> Hiato: shush I was being silly
17:05:22 <Hiato> deveah: I have to agree with tusho
17:05:37 <Hiato> Slereah_ : hush :P
17:05:38 <tusho> i'll be legal in japan in august
17:05:42 <augur> tusho is compeletely illegal
17:05:43 <tusho> very useful knowledge I know
17:05:52 <Hiato> wow, that is not sickening in the slightes tusho
17:05:54 <augur> tusho, wanna go to holland? XD
17:06:10 <tusho> Hiato: japan has _slightly_ crazy age of consent
17:06:15 <tusho> deveah: anyway I'm british
17:06:32 <augur> age of consent in the US varies from like
17:06:47 <Hiato> so then where did the brains come from, humour I get, but brains? :P
17:06:49 <augur> depend on place and sexuality
17:06:54 <augur> and sex in general
17:07:02 <tusho> Hiato: i'm actually a robot.
17:07:05 <augur> in some states, guys can fuck before girls
17:07:23 <Hiato> in SA it's 16 for straight sex (or lesbos), but for man on man it's 19, and men can't be raped either
17:08:04 <tusho> Hiato: i like how only gay _men_ get a delay
17:08:06 <deveah> can we talk about esoteric programming languages, and things that make our brains hurt?
17:08:09 <augur> im gonna have to rape^B^B^B^B find some south african boys
17:08:19 <tusho> deveah: #esoteric is like this often...
17:08:20 <Hiato> thank god I'm not of this nationality :P
17:08:28 <tusho> mention something related to esolangs and it'll probably die out.
17:08:36 <tusho> unless augur isn't interested :P
17:08:39 <deveah> at least you're not musicians
17:08:46 <Hiato> yeah, this is our creative break
17:08:52 <augur> OH let me tell you about some ideas for music i have
17:08:58 <deveah> musicians are like OMG YOU WANTZ A BIG BIIIG BUKKAKE ICECREMA PIE?
17:09:02 <augur> wheres oklopol, he could play some stuff
17:09:12 <augur> bukkake ice cream pie sounds good, i agree
17:09:20 <tusho> deveah: that sounds like #esoteric when bsmntbombdood, augur and oklopol are all in here
17:09:28 <tusho> anyway, ehm, esoteric programming languages.
17:09:42 -!- Corun has joined.
17:09:49 <deveah> go to #Renoise in irc.esper.net and join the bukkake fun
17:10:14 <deveah> how is it that noone is an op here?
17:10:20 <Hiato> lets see, I was walking the Malbolge when the BF jumped out and fondled my Ping-Pong and did the Back-Flip before it totally Befunged me
17:10:21 <tusho> deveah: why should they be?
17:10:21 <deveah> or doesn't Opera see ops?
17:10:32 <tusho> it's freenode policy, anyway - ops should only be ops when they're doing op duties
17:10:34 <augur> deveah, have you been on freenode much?
17:10:49 <augur> that explains it ;)
17:10:55 <deveah> just on #freebasic sometimes
17:11:19 <deveah> well on Quakenet, on #rgrd there are always 25 ops in the room
17:11:39 <tusho> deveah: and this is why quakenet is full of trolls and flaming and op circlejerks.
17:11:43 <augur> why are all the esolangs so boring? :(
17:12:05 <tusho> augur: 'cause people like brainfuck too much
17:12:11 <Slereah_> "Communicating and mobile systems : the pi calculus"
17:12:46 <augur> deveah, how old are you again?
17:13:01 <augur> hiato you were 17 right?
17:13:10 <deveah> i was wondering - are esoteric languages, roguelike development and chiptune tracking a normal hobby for a 13-yr-old?
17:13:12 <Hiato> rounding up to july
17:13:20 <augur> so im guessing neither of you know terribly much of compsci
17:13:52 <tusho> deveah: 13 year old, no. 13 year old nerd, yes. :P
17:14:04 <deveah> when I was 6, I was making some small demos on my Speccy
17:14:11 <deveah> moving dots, scrolling text
17:14:15 <Hiato> can you lift your weight in code tusho?
17:15:50 <Hiato> deveah, when I was six I stuck my finger in the typewriter-printer, needless to say I wasn't too fond of gizmo's for a while
17:15:54 <deveah> 48kb of memory is a lot!
17:16:11 <Hiato> Now, that is what you call a fabrication, much like tusho's age
17:16:13 <augur> deveah, hiato, http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/
17:16:25 <tusho> Hiato: shut up you
17:17:19 <Hiato> heh, augur: lis? you've outdone yourself? what about ado? :P
17:17:50 <Slereah_> No, we don't need further ado.
17:17:53 * Hiato declares tpyo evneign ofifcialyl opne
17:18:03 <deveah> Ancient Domains Of Mistery
17:18:25 <augur> you kids these days with your crazy "acronyms"
17:18:42 <Hiato> it is, in fact, a language :P
17:18:43 <tusho> augur: adom is ancient!
17:18:57 <tusho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery
17:18:57 <Hiato> and I must agree with tusho
17:19:02 <Hiato> well, tusho, what isn't ;)
17:19:02 <deveah> ADOM is a nice roguelike, but I got bored of it soon
17:19:12 <augur> i don't play video games, i'm more nerdy than that.
17:19:40 <Hiato> auagur: wow, well... i'm...err... an alcoholic! Ha!
17:19:40 <deveah> DoomRL is better than ADOM
17:19:44 <augur> my recreation is reading books on theoretical syntax. :P
17:20:03 <tusho> 'books'? 'what are they'?
17:20:15 <tusho> deveah: uh what. what are you talking about
17:20:17 <augur> why would you put the question in quotes?
17:20:18 <tusho> it sounds dangerous
17:20:20 <augur> that makes no sense, tusho.
17:20:24 <tusho> augur: I was fake-quoting Hiato
17:20:41 <augur> if that were so, the question marks should've alo been in the quotes.
17:20:44 <Hiato> even though I didn't actually say that
17:20:50 <Hiato> quote me as being misquoted ;)
17:20:54 <deveah> tusho - I sometimes, when I;m free, I go out and walk
17:21:06 <tusho> deveah: how many lives did you lose?!
17:21:09 <Hiato> you have legs? Where'd you get them?
17:21:18 <tusho> was the boss difficult?
17:21:25 <Hiato> (darn, beaten by tusho)
17:21:28 <augur> hiato: you dont have lets? awesome, cant run away. bwahaha
17:21:49 <tusho> esoteic lets are better than esoteric legs
17:22:10 <Hiato> (6:20:55 PM) ***Hiato declares tpyo evneign ofifcialyl opne
17:22:16 <deveah> okay, why don't we all think and make the mother of all esoteric languages?
17:22:27 <deveah> something more complicated than Malbolge
17:22:27 <tusho> deveah: that's called MIN
17:22:29 <augur> did i tell you about my esolang that i invented the other day?
17:22:36 <Hiato> deveah: I'm sure we were just here
17:22:39 <Hiato> well, here's an idea
17:22:52 <tusho> writing something more complex than malbolge is easy
17:22:59 <tusho> writing something significantly simpler, or _different_ is the challenge
17:23:18 <Hiato> the language has arbitrary symbolisition, so you can't code anything that isn't part of the syntax, eg:
17:23:20 <Hiato> afkljapdfj == display 1
17:23:20 <Hiato> askldfjaspfj924 = display 2
17:23:20 <Hiato> sorry, you can't display three
17:23:39 <Hiato> that would be... fun?
17:23:40 <tusho> deveah: I think you'd like Thue
17:23:40 <augur> writing something that's esoteric in the sense of being completely _different_ and yet beautifully usable, is an even better challenge. :P
17:23:47 <tusho> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Thue
17:24:18 <augur> thue is just a post production system
17:24:19 <Hiato> so is ACRONYM </shamless plug>
17:25:44 -!- oklopol has joined.
17:25:52 <deveah> Thue is easy compaing to what I'd like to make
17:26:01 <Hiato> Oklopol: how old is tusho?
17:26:10 <augur> oklopol is 12, this is well known.
17:26:18 <augur> you can see it in is maturity
17:26:21 <augur> or rather, lack thereof
17:26:23 <tusho> oklopol knows I'm 12
17:26:28 <tusho> he's known since like 2007
17:26:46 <oklopol> it was quite a crush, as i'd thought you were 17
17:26:48 <Hiato> oklopol, let me say, you are not 11 :P
17:26:58 <Hiato> and tusho is not 12! :P
17:27:02 <tusho> YES I AM DAMNIT Hiato
17:27:04 <oklopol> tusho: You're using setTimeout(func, 0) to avoid the stack now
17:27:07 <tusho> What do I have to do to prove it! :P
17:27:18 <tusho> what about the second reminder that you weren't there to see
17:27:30 <Hiato> tusho: heh, good luck ;) for me to know and you to find ouy
17:27:42 <tusho> Hiato: I could record a sampe of my voice.
17:27:47 <augur> that makes me love oklopol so much more
17:28:11 <Hiato> I feel better knowing that oklopol is smarter AND older... phew
17:28:15 <Slereah_> The second page of the book is just a gigantic "pi"
17:28:29 <tusho> Slereah_: what about the third page
17:29:31 <Slereah_> tusho : "Communicating and mobile systems : the pi calculus \n ROBIN MILNER \n Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge"
17:29:56 <oklopol> tusho wasn't that awesome when he first came here, a pretty normal prodigy
17:29:56 <oklopol> it's just exposure to esoteric makes you awesome
17:30:07 <oklopol> i thought it was "a line", since you said so
17:30:09 <augur> oklopol, we need to formalize the grammar of our language
17:30:16 <tusho> deveah: that's because you like basic
17:30:18 <tusho> ergo your opinion sucks
17:30:26 <tusho> where did that { come from
17:30:29 <Hiato> and I disgaree entirely
17:30:35 <Slereah_> Actually,, I often use 10 in C.
17:30:37 <Hiato> deveah, I'm with you ;)
17:30:40 <deveah> i prefer Basic and PHP
17:30:46 <Hiato> and tusho: no under 13's allowed :P
17:30:49 <oklopol> augur: need to watch an episode of dark angel now
17:30:52 <Slereah_> But that's because I don't like character types.
17:30:59 <oklopol> perhaps later at some point
17:31:48 <augur> whereby queen you mean your girlfriend?
17:31:50 <Slereah_> augur only obeys to the queer, oklopol
17:32:16 <augur> slereah, in those circles, we're ALL queens.. ;D
17:32:53 <Slereah_> I won't even ask you what's that circle you're talking about.
17:33:05 <augur> oklopol, im trying to think of ways in which your tuple semantics could be worked into the language
17:33:24 <deveah> Slereah_ : The Inner Circle, a secret society
17:33:38 <augur> no, just gay circles.
17:34:01 <augur> slereah is french, tho, and i dont think french gays use the term "queen" like american gays do
17:34:40 <deveah> ah, I got a 9 at French this semestre
17:35:22 <augur> french numbers above 60 are fun
17:35:38 <augur> 60, 60 and 10, 4 20's, 4 20's and 10
17:36:11 <augur> im surprised slereah hasnt tried to use something like that in an esolang yet
17:36:13 <Slereah_> augur : I speak English and all, remember!
17:36:36 <augur> yeah, but that doesnt mean you know the detailed use of all the words in english :P
17:36:53 <deveah> theoretically, every latin language is underatandable by latin speakers
17:37:58 <augur> it has to be a corrector bot that messes up and corrects it to the wrong thing
17:38:08 <oklopol> well it may fail occasionally, and correct right
17:39:08 <Hiato> which I believe to be correct
17:40:07 <Slereah_> augur : I despise the Plain English language
17:40:18 <Slereah_> So why would I like Plain French!
17:40:37 <deveah> nobody likes hungarian language :D
17:40:57 <augur> hungarian is very closely related to finnish
17:41:12 <Hiato> I was under the impression that finnish was unrealetd
17:41:23 <Hiato> except phonetically to an asian languge
17:41:28 <deveah> well, if they liked it they wouldn't come in Romania and demand Transilvania
17:41:30 <augur> finnish is related to sami/lapp
17:41:46 <augur> finnish, sami/lapp, and hungarian form the finno-ugric language family
17:42:06 <augur> part of the larger uralic language family
17:42:21 <tusho> I still want to write a lojban compiler.
17:42:24 <deveah> isn't finnish language called suomi?
17:42:27 <tusho> WITH OKLOPOL BECAUSE HE KNOWS LOJBAN AND I DON'T
17:42:33 <augur> along with estonian, and some other less spoken languages
17:42:37 -!- timotiis has joined.
17:42:43 <Hiato> and what might it compile into?
17:42:48 <augur> finnish is called suomi in finnish, sure
17:43:10 <augur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fenno-Ugrian_people.png
17:43:21 <augur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Uralic-Yukaghir.png
17:43:22 <tusho> Hiato: uh, C or something I guess
17:43:27 <tusho> oklopol: it'd be awesome wouldn't it
17:43:40 <augur> completely unusable.
17:44:03 <augur> i mean, you'd have nothing to compile into
17:44:07 <augur> you say you'd compile into c
17:44:11 <augur> but thats not what i mean
17:44:14 <Hiato> my point precisely
17:44:20 <augur> what constructs would you compile into?
17:44:27 <tusho> augur: um, regular programming language ones
17:44:39 <tusho> and have an stdlib so that you can say things like 'print "hi" 5 times' (in lojban of course)
17:44:44 <augur> no, because regular programming languages dont use the same constructs as natural languages.
17:44:46 <tusho> it'd just be easier in lojban since there's a yacc parser for it
17:44:52 <Hiato> as in, what if the sentence was: I am thinking of a number, that is bigger than my dog is wide
17:45:03 <tusho> Hiato: it'd error out because you didn't define any of that :P
17:45:14 <augur> but its defined IN LOJBAN
17:45:33 <tusho> 'All C is ASCII' != 'All ASCII is C'
17:45:35 <Hiato> you can't write a C interpreter in C
17:45:44 <Hiato> but it wouldn't do you good
17:45:53 <augur> you're not programming IN LOJBAN unless you're using the semantics of Lojban
17:46:29 <Hiato> augur: give up, he's lost to the conlang side now... he would've been such a good esolanger...
17:46:45 <tusho> I guess this is a case of "Well, I guess you'll have to wait until I write it."
17:47:06 <Hiato> and make it prove your age
17:47:08 <augur> hiato: slereah and i come from #isharia as well, and oklopol might as well too but doesnt.
17:47:39 <augur> the irc channel for the ZBB.
17:47:53 <augur> ZBB being the biggest conlanging forum on the interspheres
17:48:05 <Hiato> oh, right, heh I just got my membership there frommark rose, or what's his name
17:48:27 <tusho> is this one of those SUPER SEKRIT boards
17:48:33 <tusho> that needs 3 invites stamped and dated
17:48:37 <Hiato> not in the lsightest
17:48:37 <augur> stealth jews are invisible to radar
17:49:01 <tusho> Hiato: I just responded to 'got my membership there'
17:49:03 <augur> or atleast they look like a flock of pidgeons.
17:49:18 <augur> tusho: you just need a manual confirmation
17:49:25 <Hiato> not sure why you'd want that though, I wanna be picked up on radar, as I'm sure I am: Israeli+Jewish+Floats around web
17:49:33 <Hiato> tushO: as in you have to email them :)
17:49:45 <augur> hiato: you're not a STEALTH jew tho
17:50:03 <Hiato> that's my point, not sure why one would do that :P
17:50:05 <augur> stealth jews are coated in a special radar absorbent form of latka
17:50:24 <Hiato> lol, I take it you're jewish
17:50:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:50:32 <augur> no but my stepfather was
17:50:33 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
17:50:38 <Hiato> otherwise you've been to many sedars
17:50:45 <augur> and my family is german, which means the cultures intersect alot
17:50:49 -!- oklopol has joined.
17:50:50 <Hiato> oh, right, the latka was a kind of obvious indicator :)
17:51:09 <Hiato> intersect or dissect? :P Wait, I shouldn't go there
17:51:45 <Hiato> brei? as in brite? the stuff with matzah and egss?
17:51:58 <Hiato> must be, then yeah - it's the shiznet :P
17:52:03 <augur> if thats how you say in iwhere you're from sure
17:52:23 <augur> you israelis, pretending to be german
17:52:40 <Hiato> Israel, yep, that's how. Maar, ek het al lank in Suid-Afrika gewoon
17:52:41 <deveah> again, let's talk about esoteric languages
17:52:58 <augur> hebrew is an esolang
17:53:17 <deveah> yes, that's the main function in it
17:53:20 <augur> eyah thats in hebrew kthx
17:53:33 <augur> did you know that ALL the afro-asiatic languages, hebrew, arabic, ge'ez, etc.
17:53:43 <deveah> it's sort of substract-and-branch-if-negative
17:53:48 <augur> ALL of them share a peculiar feature of their inflectional morphology?
17:53:52 <Hiato> (hebrew and arabic being semitic)
17:54:05 <augur> semitic being afroasiatic :P
17:54:33 <tusho> deveah: interesting
17:54:35 <Hiato> in SA we just discovered electricity, so go easy :P
17:54:36 <augur> including ancient egyptian, berber, chadic, cushitic, etc.
17:54:54 <augur> they all share this ONE particular inflectional quirk in like.. feminine singular's
17:55:04 <deveah> Hiato - do you have OLPCs ?
17:55:10 <Hiato> hrmm... interesting that
17:55:18 <Hiato> deveah: nope, can't afford them :P
17:55:19 <augur> and its the /exact/ /same/ /pattern/ in all of the afroasiatic languages
17:55:25 <augur> not the same FORM, mind you, but the same pattern
17:55:48 <deveah> they're 100 euros, wtf dude!
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17:55:59 <augur> like.. second person feminine singular always is uninflected, and third person feminine singular is inflected like some masculine form
17:56:02 <augur> or something weird like that
17:56:06 <Hiato> wow, well, that makes you wonder about the root of all languages (except finnish which I maintain is unique [excluding dialects])
17:56:06 -!- oklopol has joined.
17:56:16 <augur> regardless of what the inflections actually look like, that pattern is always there
17:56:23 <Hiato> deveah: as a government, that is ;)
17:56:35 <augur> hiato: finnish and hungarian have clear shared lineage :P
17:56:49 <Hiato> meh... blah blah blah
17:57:49 <Hiato> as would I, as I'm sure I will when I get to the USA on the 20th for GYLC </boast>
17:59:01 <Hiato> the above was a necessary boast because tusho is 12 and he's smarter :P
17:59:09 <augur> hungarian: Jég alatt télen eleven halak uszkálnak.
17:59:16 <augur> Jään alla talvella elävät kalat uiskentelevat.
18:00:05 <Hiato> anyway, supper now, brb
18:00:07 <augur> what it means is irrelevant, it should be clear by the form that they're practically identical
18:01:03 <deveah> because there's always a conflict between Romania and hungary
18:01:22 <tusho> deveah: and you subscribe to it personally because...?
18:02:01 <tusho> deveah: and you subscribe to it personally because...?
18:02:13 -!- oklofok has joined.
18:02:17 <deveah> it's quite simple: they want Transilvania, we don't give them anything
18:02:59 <tusho> deveah: ok, and this makes you hate the hungarian language because?
18:03:03 <tusho> instead of just the international relations.
18:03:09 <Slereah_> The first example of a communicating system is a vending machine.
18:03:25 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
18:03:28 <deveah> because it's hungarian
18:04:03 <tusho> deveah: sounds brainwashy to me!
18:04:11 <tusho> Hungarian's international relations with Romania suck
18:04:18 <tusho> --> Therefore, everything Hungarian pisses you off and is bad.
18:04:29 <deveah> they don't exist I think
18:04:49 <tusho> deveah: "don't exist"?
18:05:38 <deveah> well they're very weak, and some parties in Romania (two that I can think of) are against anything hungarian
18:06:05 <tusho> deveah: I'd like to see some evidence that everything that is Hungarian is weak.
18:06:16 <tusho> And, uh, you rely on political parties to shape your views on everyday things? Okayyyy...
18:06:37 <deveah> OTOH, hungarians in Transilvania have quite many newspapers (>8) that speak of how hunagarians are treated on _their_ land...
18:07:26 <deveah> I didn't say that everything hungarian is weak - Romanians don't like hungarians as a nation
18:07:59 <deveah> anyway, let's change the subject
18:08:08 <tusho> deveah: Romanians don't? What, every single romanian thinks exactly the same because the inter-country relations are bad?
18:08:17 <tusho> I just think you're having a severe logic failure.
18:08:59 <deveah> what's clear is that good relations between our countries never existed...
18:09:17 <tusho> never disputed that; I'm just saying that that's not a reason to dislike hungary/hungarian things
18:10:28 <deveah> hungary makes good pickles after all
18:12:24 <deveah> what are the basic instructions on a RISC?
18:13:38 <deveah> what are OISCs used for?
18:15:01 <Slereah_> RISC can still have a fuckload of instructions, though.
18:15:20 <Slereah_> Most regular languages have, when compared to esolangs
18:17:25 <deveah> seriously, do OISCs have a use or they just exist?
18:17:46 <augur> you can make a simple CPU with them
18:17:49 <augur> but whats the point?
18:17:57 <augur> theyre harder to work with
18:18:05 <deveah> yes, what's the point?
18:18:29 <augur> they just exist, deveah.
18:18:34 <augur> noone uses them for anything serious.
18:19:22 <lament> otherwise we wouldn't talk about them.
18:19:26 <deveah> i'd like to see a roguelike on OISCs
18:19:29 <tusho> deveah: this is #esoteric
18:19:35 <tusho> does malbolge have a use?
18:20:01 <Slereah_> "I know the hardest language there is!"
18:20:15 <deveah> all esoteric languages, are by definition, languages to test the extremes of programming
18:20:23 <tusho> deveah: One instruction is pretty extreme
18:20:26 <tusho> but no, not all of them are
18:20:28 <Slereah_> You don't have to say that you don't know how to program in it.
18:20:46 <Slereah_> Turing tarpits and theoretical languages are.
18:20:50 <tusho> Slereah_: yes, that's about it
18:21:10 <Slereah_> The rest is joke languages and theme languages
18:21:18 <tusho> Slereah_: And interesting ones.
18:21:37 <Slereah_> Doesn't INTERCAL have a minuscule instruction set?
18:22:00 <Slereah_> I can only remember 5 operators right now.
18:22:25 <tusho> It's reasonably sized
18:22:36 <tusho> & ais523 actually quite likes it, in a non-esoteric sense
18:22:48 <tusho> apart from its string handling and some of its quirks
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18:22:58 <tusho> Slereah_: like, i dunno, C-INTERCAL has like 30 commands
18:23:03 <tusho> and the quoting rules are comprehensive
18:23:43 <deveah> theoretically, 3 - (-3) = 6, so OISCs can add, too
18:24:21 <tusho> deveah: 'theoretically'?
18:24:24 <tusho> more like 'in practice'lly
18:24:47 <deveah> theoretically, if OISC support negative numbers
18:25:11 <tusho> deveah: some of them do
18:25:19 <tusho> people have written OISC interps in OISCs
18:26:01 <deveah> music without any resampling sure sounds a lot different
18:26:37 <oklofok> deveah: isn't finnish language called suomi? <<< suomi is finnish for finland / finnish
18:27:18 <tusho> oklofok: you, me, lojban compiler
18:27:20 <deveah> i know, but i've heard some people talk in english with "suomi", and they weren't finnish
18:27:38 <augur> deveah: thats people being stupid
18:27:46 <augur> like white people pronouncing spanish names with spanish accents
18:30:02 <olsner> which is about as stupid as white people attempting to pronounce spanish names in english :)
18:30:07 -!- hotidlerchick has joined.
18:30:39 <olsner> "white" is unfortunate though; it's really native tongue rather than physical attributes that matters
18:33:01 <oklofok> oiscs aren't harder to work with, if the assembly lets you make procedures of some sort
18:33:05 <oklofok> and usually you can at least make something like macros easily
18:35:08 <oklofok> well, i will have to learn to use yacc.
18:35:34 <tusho> we can just translate that into a python parser generator
18:35:39 <tusho> [there's a yacc-similar i think]
18:36:19 <oklofok> or parse lojban myself, sounds better of course
18:36:40 <tusho> anyway, 'MYSELF'? YOU ABANDON ME SO SOON
18:36:41 <oklofok> the easy way is for noobs and sane people
18:36:51 <tusho> oklofok: parsing is kinda boring for this
18:36:55 <tusho> I mean everyone knows how to parse lojban.
18:37:04 <tusho> The actual compilation will be far funner
18:37:47 <olsner> I don't know how to parse lojban
18:38:02 <olsner> (but show me the grammar and I can!)
18:38:22 <oklofok> i can parse it without hands.
18:38:34 <tusho> oklofok: anyway I will start work on that when I stop playing around with django
18:40:48 <augur> ok im out guys. see ya.
18:41:06 <tusho> oklofok: it's a python web framework and it'll totally fluffy
18:41:10 <tusho> it generates an admin interface for you!
18:41:25 <tusho> if you give it a regular database model and plug in a few values,
18:41:37 <tusho> it'll let you search, browse by date, view in a table, edit in a nice interface
18:41:42 <tusho> filter with a sidebar, ..
18:42:37 <lament> how tremendously boring
18:43:07 * deveah is now playing TES4: Oblivion: Shivering Isles
18:43:11 <tusho> but nice and efficient
18:43:14 -!- deveah has changed nick to deveah|tes4.
18:43:20 <lament> your mom is nice and efficient
18:43:39 -!- hotidlerchick has quit ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'").
18:43:43 <tusho> that wasn't that good
18:43:50 <tusho> hotidlerchick just went without oklofok
18:43:55 <tusho> and hotidlerchick is not using oklofok's irc client
18:44:04 <tusho> oklofok: you can't fool us even so!
18:48:45 -!- hotidlerchick has joined.
18:50:53 <pikhq> Well, I'm not getting sent to USENIX. . .
18:51:06 <pikhq> But I *am* getting sent to the Red Hat Summit. . .
18:51:11 <pikhq> And getting paid for the privelege.
18:52:13 <tusho> hotidlerchick: ARE YOU OKLOPOL
18:52:23 <tusho> pikhq: Red Hat! Woopie! :P
18:52:37 <tusho> yes, hotidlerchick = oklopol, but on a different client
18:52:47 <tusho> and apprently he makes his client fiddle about every now and then to fool us!
18:52:53 <tusho> hotidlerchick: i thought you said you were leaving ->
18:53:07 <pikhq> tusho: Hey, getting paid for it is just kinda awesome.
18:55:14 <pikhq> I might also end up getting sent to USENIX for a day.
18:56:24 <pikhq> Here's to being in Boston.
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18:59:09 <tusho> oklopol: you didn't go, then
18:59:28 <oklopol> i closed the lid for almost two minutes½!
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19:06:23 <tusho> ok, #django does not have a very high concentration of http knowledge.
19:06:33 <tusho> they claim that not wanting a / on the end of a singular resource is 'very strange'
19:08:34 <tusho> /polls/ should have an ending slash, because it's a directory containing polls
19:08:43 <tusho> /polls/42, though, shouldn't have an ending slash
19:08:47 <tusho> because it's a singular - it's one poll
19:08:55 -!- deveah|tes4 has changed nick to deveah.
19:08:57 <tusho> they are arguing for /polls/42/ which is stupid as a poll is not a collection
19:09:05 <tusho> it's an entity, a singular resource
19:09:12 <tusho> they think that this is 'VERY STARNGE LOL'
19:11:59 <lament> does this actually matter
19:12:16 <lament> if it's a directory, doesn't it work just as well without the slash?
19:16:09 <tusho> lament: the point is,
19:16:16 <tusho> if you make django route to the /-ending versiont
19:16:23 <tusho> then /polls/42 redirects to /polls/42/
19:16:24 <tusho> which is just wrong
19:16:27 <tusho> if you omit the / on the end
19:16:32 <tusho> then /polls/42 is OK, but /polls/42/ 404s
19:16:34 <tusho> instead of redirecting
19:16:49 <deveah> what's the most short in commands esolang?
19:16:52 <lament> both of those things sound good
19:16:58 <lament> depending on your preference
19:17:07 <lament> if you stick to your idea of a "singular resource"
19:17:19 <tusho> lament: no, because users are not perfect :-)
19:17:29 <tusho> it's just the _canonical urls_ which should be like that
19:17:34 <tusho> [i.e. what everything else redirects to]
19:17:46 <tusho> #django, on the other hand, say this is CRAZY TLAK while they go back to shitting out web2.0 crao.
19:17:54 <tusho> oklopol: no, iota is pretty heavy
19:17:56 <lament> next you'll be correcting users' typos for them?
19:17:58 <tusho> it requires the lambda calculus, S and K
19:18:12 <tusho> BCT is probably the most minimal
19:18:16 <tusho> 2 instructions [well, 3 to be honest]
19:18:24 <tusho> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BCT
19:18:41 <tusho> oklopol: sorry, no
19:18:45 <tusho> the semantics of those commands are too heavy
19:18:50 <tusho> in syntax, yes, iota is tiny
19:18:53 <tusho> in semantics, it's pretty big
19:19:18 <Slereah_> It's full of unstated lambda calculus
19:19:25 <Slereah_> It looks more like a cypher than functions.
19:19:50 <oklopol> i wouldn't say iota cheats in any way, it's pretty clearly two commands
19:21:05 <tusho> oklopol: that's like
19:21:10 <tusho> X - interpret the rest of the source code as perl
19:21:13 <tusho> omg!!11 one command!!
19:21:17 <tusho> and it's so featureful!
19:21:57 <oklopol> iota always does I the same way
19:21:59 <deveah> but something you can actually get something from?
19:22:34 <tusho> deveah: you could do that with bct
19:22:42 <tusho> just make the data type a binary encoding of "Hello World!"
19:24:36 <tusho> deveah: it's a big semantics heavy
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20:20:46 <GregorR> tusho: Why didn't you push yesterday?
20:30:07 <tusho> GregorR: Because it's still borken!
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20:30:33 <GregorR> tusho: Sorry, I borked yours more by pushing about eight things :P
20:30:52 <tusho> GregorR: I'll just push over them when I'm done and leave you to manually merge them
20:30:52 <GregorR> (But hey, now it has a JIT and read()!)
20:31:05 <GregorR> tusho: Mercurial won't let you push if it would cause a branch.
20:31:21 <tusho> GregorR: This is why I LOOOOOOOOVE mercurial.
20:33:40 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:33:52 <GregorR> That's why I love mercurial. :notrolleyes:
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20:36:03 <Hiato> http://dblog.aldacron.net/2007/08/27/q-a-gregor-richards/ - GregorR, can I have an autograph? :P
20:36:50 <GregorR> OMG, an obscure guy who's been interviewed in an obscure blog!!! :P
20:36:55 -!- kar8nga has joined.
20:37:36 <Hiato> Heh, I would still like to know if my 1L_AOI spec is passable... (however vague)
20:38:08 <tusho> GregorR: So if you love D so much, how much would you love me if I rewrote EgoBot in D? :-P
20:38:11 -!- Slereah has joined.
20:38:20 <tusho> oklopol: oi, check yer /msg'd
20:39:31 <augur> oklopol's busy jizzing on me like a freak
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20:41:14 <tusho> hotidlerchick: /msg's
20:43:04 <tusho> yes, I do, oklopol
20:44:00 <tusho> hotidlerchick: yes he is, you are oklopol
20:44:11 <augur> maybe its oklopols girlfriend!
20:44:28 <tusho> augur: its got the same ip and the ident is 'hothothothot'
20:44:36 <tusho> and oklopol keeps switching to it
20:44:47 <augur> well, that would figure if it was oklopols girlfriend who he's with at the moment?
20:45:06 <tusho> augur: no, hotidlerchick = oklopol
20:45:19 <augur> you're no fun, tusho
20:45:47 <oerjan> there are no girls on the interblag, other than lesbians, everyone knows that
20:46:41 <tusho> oerjan: i like how you used an xkcd sarcastic-term-for-the-internet while at the same time blatantly violating the xkcd that ragged on people who said there were no girls on the internet
20:46:46 <tusho> it's like 5 layers of sarcasm
20:47:23 <oerjan> oerjan, now with more levels than even HE knows
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20:51:01 <tusho> hotidlerchick: YOU ARE OKLOPOL
20:51:03 <tusho> oklopol: PROVE ME WRONG
20:52:01 <augur> you proved that you were oklopol
20:52:48 <tusho> hotidlerchick: you talk exactly like oklopol
20:52:58 <tusho> now, oklopol, get yer lazy bum over to the /msg window
20:53:12 <augur> not only that but hic responds when you address oklopol! :o
20:53:35 <GregorR> tusho: Not if you preempted working on jsmips for it ;)
20:54:25 <tusho> oklopol: YOU ARE hotidlerchick
20:54:39 <GregorR> tusho: It'd be nifty if you rewrote EgoBot in D, but not if you stopped working on jsmips to rewrote EgoBot in D :P
20:55:17 <tusho> GregorR: oh, well I have like 50 projects at any given time
20:55:24 <tusho> oklopol: focus on yer /msg window, damnit
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20:55:31 <tusho> #lojban are helping me work out how the language will work, right now :P
20:55:37 <oklopol> sry, logreading took a sec :<
20:55:42 <tusho> while I get a parser workin'
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20:57:18 <oklopol> perhaps i am hotidlerchick, but i can promise i'll commit to the act well enough you can just treat her as a separate person.
20:57:32 <oklopol> there's no way to prove anything, behaviorism, people
20:57:50 <oklopol> and i would never capitalize "i"
20:58:43 <GregorR> Whereas I would never decapItalIze 'I', even If It's not correct to capItalIze It.
20:59:31 <pikhq> I do the normal, mundane thing.
21:00:08 <oklopol> or do you flip the bit twice, and it's "i" again?
21:00:18 <pikhq> However, that only applies to punctuation. I use 'logical quoting': for example, "I use logical quoting.".
21:01:43 -!- pikhq has left (?).
21:01:53 <augur> logical quoting is the only logical thing to use
21:02:56 <tusho> i imitate andrew cooke sometimes, just because i can
21:02:56 <tusho> and it's less work to type
21:02:56 <tusho> see what i did there?
21:05:09 -!- deveah has left (?).
21:06:35 <augur> planes and automobiles
21:06:46 <tusho> hotidlerchick: so who are you actually
21:07:09 -!- namor has joined.
21:07:51 <tusho> namor: turn back, or you can never leave
21:08:26 -!- tusho has set topic: The international hub for esoteric programming language design, development and deployment | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
21:08:31 <tusho> the topic was not nearly presentable enough!
21:09:13 <namor> Well, now the link's missing, isn't it?
21:09:27 <tusho> To the logs? It's still there.
21:09:31 <tusho> It's just at the end.
21:09:34 <namor> http://www.frappr.com/esolang
21:09:39 <tusho> Was that there before?
21:09:45 <oklopol> namor: it's in the chanserv message
21:09:59 <tusho> better link to the site actually
21:10:07 -!- tusho has set topic: The international hub for esoteric programming language design, development and deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
21:10:29 <oklopol> weird to see a sensible topic
21:11:52 <oklopol> well yeah, it's been there a few times, but it always gets mangled in a few minutes
21:12:05 * GregorR was the first one to call #esoteric an "international hub" :P
21:12:18 <tusho> GregorR: It's enterprisey!
21:16:06 <namor> Ah, I just remembered what esoteric programming languages were.
21:24:03 <augur> dude, some channels have background images! :o
21:24:07 <augur> we should have a background image!
21:24:53 <augur> go into #ruby. they have a background image
21:25:08 <tusho> No they don't, augur
21:25:13 <tusho> Your client is broken.
21:25:16 <oklopol> they don't! god i'm surprised :O
21:25:50 <tusho> augur: anyway, they don't
21:27:08 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
21:27:12 <tusho> and it's your client
21:27:52 <namor> I wanna see things too
21:28:11 <oklopol> ais523's languages are awesome
21:28:30 <tusho> augur: http://www.serenity.de/assets/images/public/limelight.jpg
21:28:36 <tusho> looks like it's a config option or osmething
21:28:44 <tusho> i guess it has a few defaults pointing to logos
21:29:11 <tusho> augur: "t features icons/images for some channels I frequent. "
21:29:13 <tusho> looks like the theme does it
21:29:50 <augur> well there was an image there none-the-less :)
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21:38:11 <augur> we should build a little computer
21:38:32 <augur> something primitive but cool
21:38:44 <tusho> augur: once I'm back yes
21:38:45 * GregorR still wants a pneumatic computer.
21:38:55 <augur> maybe something mechanical, made of little rods of metal/wire
21:39:07 <augur> hmm pneumatic like air? or like water/oil?
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22:17:46 <augur> well, water would i think be better because air compresses
22:18:05 <augur> so youll have issues with making an air-based computer
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22:20:12 <lament> an air-based computer would be great so you can run whitespace on it
22:20:39 <lament> earth's atmosphere is sufficiently big and complicated to host it
22:20:52 <augur> er.. air-based pneumatic computer, lamen.
22:21:03 <lament> who needs message-passing when you can have hurricane-passing?
22:21:13 <augur> thats not a pneumatic computer lament :p
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22:24:06 <oerjan> ooh a computing atmosphere
22:24:44 <tusho> maybe the atmosphere IS tc
22:25:27 <GregorR> That would explain why meteorology is so useless.
22:25:34 <GregorR> They're trying to solve the halting problem (in essence)
22:26:06 <tusho> GregorR: that was my thought
22:26:11 <augur> the atmosphere is necessarily TC.
22:26:30 <augur> infact, it's beyond TC, it's an oracle machine.
22:26:36 <tusho> augur: that's .. bull
22:26:46 -!- oklopol has joined.
22:26:54 <augur> the atmosphere is just a collection of particles that run in quantum mechanics
22:26:57 <tusho> as far as I know, there are no known instances of processes that a turing machine cannot emulate
22:27:09 <tusho> augur: pretty sure you can emulate QM inside a turing machine...
22:27:26 <augur> QM performs infinite calculations instantaneously.
22:27:35 <tusho> augur: i'm pretty sure you can avoid that?
22:27:43 <augur> well, infinite tests
22:27:46 <tusho> at least, I've never heard of this
22:27:49 <augur> sum of all paths and all that jazz
22:28:06 <augur> ofcourse, that might not be considered above TC so i might be wrong.
22:29:40 <augur> but at the very least, the atmosphere is TC.
22:30:10 <GregorR> augur: The fact that it's running in a TC environment doesn't mean it's TC.
22:30:25 <augur> the atmosphere is a figment of our imagination ;)
22:30:35 <augur> there is nothing but the quantum foam
22:31:44 <oerjan> quantum computation doesn't give you anything beyond TC. you just get to do sort of parallel computation
22:32:03 <augur> but infinite superposition of states would
22:32:05 <oerjan> so it goes faster, but only exponentially or so
22:32:05 <tusho> also I like the idea of quantum foam
22:32:09 <tusho> that only sometimes exists
22:32:10 <augur> and afaik theres nothing in QM that prevents it
22:32:13 <tusho> I want some of that
22:32:23 <tusho> i'd keep it, sometimes
22:32:27 <GregorR> tusho: So, got something to push to the repo? :P
22:32:36 <GregorR> tusho: I promise I won't touch it for the next few hours D-8
22:32:46 <tusho> i'll work on it in a second
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22:33:51 <augur> gregor, have you seen that little handheld calculator with the turny top and stuff?
22:33:55 <augur> i forget what its called
22:34:12 <augur> man that thing is beautiful
22:34:24 <augur> i really want to build one
22:34:30 <augur> no, its not, but its just beautiful
22:34:53 <GregorR> When I (never) make a pneumatic computer, I should make it so you have to blow in a pipe to make it compute :P
22:35:08 <augur> oh! i have an idea!
22:35:30 <augur> that uses waves, so you have to blow it like an INSTRUMENT
22:35:39 <augur> and the result of the computation is sound outputs! :o
22:35:45 <GregorR> I know I heard somewhere that intersections of waves can do XOR gates and such.
22:35:55 <augur> intersections of waves?
22:36:08 <GregorR> When two waves ... intersect.
22:36:13 <GregorR> I can't find the right word.
22:36:25 <augur> you mean when they superimpose?
22:36:34 <augur> yes, i suppose it would be XOR
22:36:37 <augur> because of interference
22:36:58 <augur> but only if the waves were 180° out of phase with one another
22:37:07 <augur> and were the same frequency ;)
22:37:24 <augur> not that thats hard to do or anything
22:37:44 <augur> but yeah, it'd be an XOR
22:38:13 <augur> you'd just need to build your computer to be able to utilize the absolute value of the amplitude
22:38:29 <augur> or find some way to manipulate phase when you need to do so.
22:43:30 <ihope> A sonic computer would be difficult, I imagine. I think waves don't actually interact.
22:43:33 <GregorR> Heh, a pneumatic computer running sufficiently fast is a sonic computer ;)
22:43:35 <ihope> But maybe I'm mistaken.
22:43:55 <augur> waves interact, ihope
22:43:58 <ihope> I guess fluidic computing works, so they must interact to some extent.
22:44:01 <augur> they interfere, and do other stuff
22:44:09 <augur> well mostly they interfere ;)
22:44:27 <ihope> Well, when two waves interfere, you just get the sum of the two waves, no?
22:44:53 <augur> there are some interesting uses of waves to alter the speed of sound due to pressure changes in the air, and then use those speed-of-sound modifications to piggy-back second signals
22:45:00 <augur> eh, not quite ihope
22:45:12 <augur> i mean, you do, but that provides for interesting things.
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22:45:44 <augur> because, for instance, the sum of two waves in phrase is an or
22:46:02 <augur> you can use beats to produce ands
22:46:36 <ihope> Still, you can't compute with nothing but addition. The "true" you get from sin x + 0 is not the same as that you get from sin x + sin x.
22:46:45 <augur> its not _addition_
22:47:16 <augur> nevermind resonances and the like
22:47:35 <augur> resonance would probably be really good to work into a sonic computer
22:47:40 <augur> resonances, filters, etc.
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22:48:50 <ihope> What happens if you put a wall in the way of a sound? The resonant frequency goes through without too much problem, while frequencies that are farther away are cut out somewhat?
22:50:13 <augur> resonance is a property of oscillators, firstly
22:50:22 <ihope> Walls can oscillate, if they're flexible.
22:50:24 <augur> so i presume you mean the resonance frequence of the wall
22:50:31 <ihope> Call it a membrane. And yes, I do.
22:51:02 <augur> in those cases, all you'd be doing is inducing sympathetic vibrations in the wall at the walls resonance frequency
22:51:19 <augur> which ofcourse causes the wall to produce that same frequency in the environment
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22:51:47 <augur> but the wall doesnt filter anything
22:52:24 <augur> the incoming sound will either be absorbed (depending on the material, e.g. foam, which means it wont resonate either)
22:52:36 <augur> or it'll be reflected (which would be somewhat required for resonance)
22:52:45 <ihope> Well, if it's a membrane with air on both sides, surely it can also be transmitted.
22:53:04 <augur> well, the sound will move the wall which will produce sound on the other side
22:53:23 <ihope> And the sound on the other side will be of a somewhat lower amplitude, right?
22:53:27 <augur> but thats not quite like if the wall were "transparent" to the sound
22:53:38 <augur> because the whole surface of the wall becomes the oscillator for those situations
22:53:49 <augur> as for amplitude, it depends on the kind of wall.
22:54:06 <augur> obviously foam walls will reduce amplitude significantly
22:54:19 <augur> a metal wall will not be nearly as significant
22:54:37 <augur> and there wont be uniform damping across all frequencies
22:55:14 <ihope> Well, if the damping is nonuniform, it seems you can use that to filter and maybe compute.
22:56:11 <augur> the computation would have to occur in small resonance chambers and conducting tubes, at very precise frequencies and amplitudes meaning you'd probably want a more traditional filter
22:56:11 <ihope> But if I hit a wall with the superposition of two waves, is the result just the superposition of the waves I'd get if I hit it with each wave individually?
22:56:23 <ihope> Yeah, sounds about right.
22:56:39 <augur> as for superposition
22:56:56 <augur> the waves will produce an amplitude pattern on the wall
22:57:36 <augur> the pattern for the superposition of the two waves will not be the sum of the patterns for the individual waves
22:57:41 <augur> due to interference
22:58:33 <augur> on a wall some distance from the sound source
22:59:09 <augur> at the point directly "beneath" the sound source on the wall (i.e. where the sound source is perpendicular off the wall)
22:59:18 <augur> will be the "brightest" spot
22:59:33 <augur> and moving away from there the amplitude will decrease
22:59:52 <augur> but if you introduce a second sound source you'll develop rings of bright and dark
23:00:37 <augur> which could also be used for logic, obviously
23:01:31 <augur> the only problem is with amplitudes decreasing as the wave progresses along the circuit, as it is with electrical systems
23:01:46 <augur> so you'd need some way of making transistors that use sound
23:05:45 <tusho> who wants me to implement an esolang
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