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00:46:01 <GregorR> Ize in the back of ur hed!
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00:54:25 <GregorR> So, I'm going to make a web site where multiple people can upload separate one-track MIDIs given a predetermined key, time signature and tempo, and then it mixes them together so you can see how terrible the result is.
00:54:40 <GregorR> The concept was invented (probably re-invented) by some friends of mine, they call them masterpieces.
00:54:50 <GregorR> Anyway, I think this website deserves a time challenge.
00:55:06 <GregorR> e.g. how fast can I make a sort-of-complicated web site :P
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03:21:11 <adu> oklopol? nice
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03:44:13 <augur> oklopol isnt here :(
03:44:29 <adu> you are :)
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04:07:10 <adu> augur: so what do you do?
04:07:32 <adu> augur: I like to learn about as many proglangs as possible
04:07:45 <adu> augur: then I focus on ones I like in detail
04:08:59 <augur> i like to find interesting and new paradigms
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05:14:12 <adu> augur: my favorite so far is a certain thing I don't have a name for
05:14:46 <adu> its like OOP only the kind that only Smalltalk and Io are good approximations to
05:15:09 <adu> its like Javascript's prototype-based classes
05:15:25 <adu> its like Python and Mathematica
05:16:01 <adu> have you used Prolog?
05:16:08 <adu> its a mind-f***
05:16:40 <augur> i like prolog. but its nothing magical.
05:16:53 <adu> Have you heard of Meta?
05:17:00 <adu> Have you heard of Subtext?
05:17:26 <adu> Have you heard of Funge?
05:17:27 <augur> meta no, subtext maybe
05:18:00 <adu> http://www.cwi.nl/htbin/sen1/twiki/bin/view/Meta-Environment
05:18:01 <adu> http://www.subtextual.org/
05:18:41 <adu> augur: have you heard of the language i'm designing?
05:19:14 <augur> i dont know, whats it called
05:20:12 <adu> I don't have a name for it yet, but was thinking of calling it "uh" or "xylo" or "rose"
05:21:46 <adu> the core idea of my lang is that it is a strongly-typed language with both homogeneous and heterogeneous built-in data structures
05:22:59 <adu> the major benefit I see from this is that it allows reflection since you can represent a for-loop or a function-def as a first-class object
05:25:39 <adu> by having sets, maps, lists, ordered maps builtin, it adds new expressiveness to seemingly simple operators
05:26:46 <adu> so "case x [a: b, c: d]" would be different than "case x {a: b, c: d}"
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05:41:54 <AnMaster> GregorR, about MIDI: it is painful to parse
05:43:00 <AnMaster> <augur> funge, boring. <-- stop insulting ;P
06:40:52 <GregorR> AnMaster: That's why you use preexisting libraries, of course.
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09:07:07 <AnMaster> GregorR, I don't know any for parsing midi
09:07:25 <AnMaster> I would actually find one useful
09:27:28 <augur> http://www.flickr.com/photos/psygnisfive/tags/sky/
09:27:44 <GregorR> AnMaster: http://staff.dasdeck.de/valentin/midi/
09:27:52 <GregorR> AnMaster: First result searching for "PHP MIDI"
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10:40:14 <tusho> GregorR: not one track
10:40:28 <tusho> which are looped and mixed and effect'd and repeat'd randomly
10:40:31 <tusho> as the full track in the result
10:40:43 <tusho> if you submitted stuff droney enough you'd end up with some weiiird ambient music :P
10:46:01 <tusho> GregorR: i mean, it might actually sound good.
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11:16:09 <olsner> 1200 spänn för en terabyte-disk är ju helt okay
11:18:16 <olsner> ... but 500-750GB seems to be cheaper per GB than the terabyte disks
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11:32:34 <AnMaster> <olsner> 1200 spänn för en terabyte-disk är ju helt okay
11:32:35 <AnMaster> <olsner> ... but 500-750GB seems to be cheaper per GB than the terabyte disks
11:32:57 <tusho> AnMaster: same time as yesterday, roughly
11:33:01 <tusho> Well, about 30 minutes earlier.
11:33:03 <olsner> AnMaster: that's what *I* said :P
11:33:08 <AnMaster> jag har bara plats för en SATA-disk till
11:33:22 <olsner> aj då, då är du väl så illa tvungen att köpa den största som finns
11:33:36 <AnMaster> well better use English or tusho will feel left out
11:34:09 <olsner> unless you replace one or more disks with a new one, or get a wardrobe computer as a receptacle for additional disks
11:34:15 <AnMaster> in any way I would do a clean gentoo install on it, my current partitioning scheme is quite messed up
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11:34:41 <AnMaster> olsner, I mean the mobo only got one more SATA connector
11:34:47 <AnMaster> I think the case can hold 3 more disks
11:35:17 <AnMaster> as I already got an old PATA (80 gb) + a SATA (350 GB)
12:09:42 <tusho> 12:09pm up 105 days 15:54, 0 users, load average: 1.59, 2.04, 2.00
12:10:50 <fizzie> 14:10:42 up 228 days, 4:46, 12 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
12:10:58 <fizzie> 228 days and completely useless (load 0).
12:11:34 <fizzie> And no UPS. I can pretty much use "uptime" to check when the previous blackout was.
12:12:57 <fizzie> Hmm, the laptop-turned-Xen-server apparently survived previous electricity problems, because it's got an uptime of 273 days now.
12:17:30 <tusho> fizzie: Thing is, this computer goes on standby at night.
12:17:32 <tusho> So it's kind of cheating
12:19:46 <fizzie> Ohhh. Yes, it's a bit easier that way.
12:20:40 <tusho> fizzie: I _have_ left it on overnight.
12:20:42 <tusho> And it's not that loud.
12:20:47 <tusho> But, you know. I don't need it in the night.
12:20:50 <tusho> Unless I'm running a torrent.
12:23:42 <fizzie> Yes, I was actually thinking of doing the suspend-it-at-night thing for my workstation (which is bit of loudish for bedroom use) if I ever get motivated enough to move elsewhere the one last service (postgres) running on it that the web-server-laptop depends on.
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12:32:56 <tusho> Might be an idea :-p
12:38:16 <fizzie> On the other had, the irregular cat-induced noises are more distracting than the low hum from the computer, and I still manage to sleep well enough to need two alarm clocks to actually wake up. So I guess it's not a priority.
12:38:48 <fizzie> Of course turning it off would conserve power and Save The Planet, I guess.
12:40:07 <tusho> fizzie: But standby KILLS TREES</eco advert>
12:40:18 <tusho> p.s. lol colloquy is using 98% of cpu brb.
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12:55:08 <oklopol> turned out i'm not sure how the rewrites work
12:55:18 <oklopol> perhaps it's pen and paper time
12:56:15 <tusho> oklopol: want another infuriating game?
12:56:27 <tusho> http://www.geocities.jp/z_gundam_tanosii/home/applet/Main.html
13:17:06 <oklopol> tusho: that's a retarded game
13:17:22 <tusho> it's super mario bros
13:19:07 <oklopol> well yes, it's similar in graphics, just worse movement, uglier, and tons more annoying levels
13:25:05 <oklopol> but yeah, that's kinda infuriating, another game where everything is trivial, you just don't know what you have to do, and have to explore blindly.
13:25:33 <oklopol> iwbtg at least offered a few minutes of challenge once you figured out what hazards the level held
13:26:17 <oklopol> i think i know the rewrite rules now, time to do the pythonification
13:26:43 <tusho> the movement is intentional
13:28:48 <oklopol> and that has to do with anything because..?
13:30:19 <oklopol> of course it's intentional, it's not like the code to make it slide around and always jump the same amount wrote itself
13:31:06 <oklopol> right, my face, forgot all about it
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14:38:15 <AnMaster> <oklopol> but yeah, that's kinda infuriating, another game where everything is trivial, you just don't know what you have to do, and have to explore blindly.
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14:42:12 <tusho> revision 5461 (C) 1987 Ifnocmo systems
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14:42:24 <tusho> LOADING tush.glo......................................Done
14:42:35 <tusho> You are in a room.
14:42:48 <tusho> I don't understand.
14:42:55 <AnMaster> <tusho> revision 5461 (C) 1987 Ifnocmo systems
14:43:11 <tusho> Infocom stole my name, actually.
14:43:31 <tusho> You are in a room. It is infinitely large. There is a cat here.
14:43:42 <tusho> It grows a k in the process.
14:44:17 <AnMaster> yes right was "go to right"...
14:44:48 <AnMaster> unless it is one of those games using compass direction instead?
14:45:54 <tusho> You go west forever and end at the edge of the infinite room.
14:45:58 <tusho> There is a model of the earth there.
14:46:59 <tusho> You look carefully and can see yourself typing away on the keyboard the line "investigate earth".
14:47:06 <tusho> Interestingly, a few seconds later, you see tusho typing the line:
14:47:08 <tusho> You look carefully and can see yourself typing away on the keyboard the line "investigate earth".
14:47:54 <tusho> You pick up the earth and stick it in your endless pockets along with the kat.
14:49:06 <tusho> You go north forever.
14:49:13 <tusho> In front of you is everything.
14:49:42 <tusho> You look at everything.
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14:49:45 <tusho> It's vaguely disconcerting.
14:50:27 <tusho> You dig everything, by which you mean the slang term for appreciating it.
14:50:31 <tusho> Yourself says "Hello".
14:50:59 <tusho> You fly into the sky. Yourself flies up too.
14:51:33 <tusho> You go east and bash into yourself.
14:51:40 <tusho> You say "oof". Yourself says "ow".
14:51:55 <AnMaster> > say "What is the goal of this game?"
14:52:06 <tusho> "You must find that in yourself."
14:52:23 <tusho> You go south, and see a door. Yourself opens it.
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14:52:42 <tusho> You enter the door, and yourself follows behind.
14:52:47 <tusho> You are in heaven.
14:53:20 <tusho> You have 4 points.
14:53:44 <tusho> You stub your toe.
14:55:20 <AnMaster> "stub your toe"? I'm sorry but I don't understand what that means, I'm not a native speaker after all
14:55:37 <tusho> Bashing your toe on the end of it, basically.
14:55:46 <tusho> often happens when you trip when walking.
14:57:48 <tusho> You go south. There is a forth wall there.
14:58:19 <tusho> AnMaster: Wait, is forth wall an english idiom that you don't get
14:58:42 <tusho> The 'forth wall' is the imaginary world seperating, e.g., characters in a TV show from the audience.
14:58:53 <tusho> 'breaking the forth wall' is like when a character looks at the camera and talks to the audience
15:00:24 <tusho> You have a kat and the world.
15:01:48 <tusho> You loot the world.
15:02:18 <AnMaster> use TNT and back away to a safe distance from the wall
15:02:35 <tusho> You break it. You see two people typing at computers behind the wall.
15:02:39 <tusho> You look at them. They look at you.
15:03:39 <tusho> You turn to them. They turn to you. "Hi, I'm AnMaster" you say. "No, you're the character I'm playing. _I'm_ AnMaster." "Nuh-uh. In this game, you are your own character."
15:05:05 <tusho> """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""stack overflow
15:05:34 <tusho> (I am the narrator, so I am relaying messages in "quotes". However, I am quoting what I am saying, which is the current line I'm typing. So, infinite loop.)
15:08:40 <tusho> You quit the room into the portal which contains the rooms of both tusho and AnMaster.
15:09:39 <tusho> You can never quit this game.
15:09:50 <tusho> [Adventure Lad sez: This game is real life!]
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15:50:36 <tusho> and I just came back too
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17:06:12 <oklopol> ais523: didn't notice you there
17:06:20 <oklopol> well, the part of it i know
17:06:48 <ais523> that's probably the most important part, doing the rest of it should be easy from there
17:06:56 <oklopol> atm i'm using python lists of the form (node, [connection]) as the graph representation.
17:07:13 <oklopol> but quite easy to fix, i just didn't want to make a nice interface for myself
17:07:29 <ais523> I didn't expect it to be fast
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17:08:27 <oklopol> except for the fact i'm using a sucky data representation
17:08:53 <oklopol> but it's basically just a matter of abstracting all the weirdness away and i can change the structure easily
17:09:14 <oklopol> the problem is i just have that one ring example to test with
17:09:25 <oklopol> no idea if it works for others, as the code is very, very ugly atm :P
17:13:21 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p565155612.txt
17:13:46 <oklopol> not very readable output, i could make a parser into the letter form i guess
17:13:49 <ais523> maybe I'll have to come up with an example...
17:13:59 <oklopol> just checked, and at least @ step 7 it seems to be correct
17:14:35 <oklopol> i'll prettify the code a bit now, do you read python?
17:14:48 <ais523> yes, I can read python
17:14:53 <ais523> I've written bits in it before
17:15:02 <ais523> but I normally only use it for OO stuff, and I don't do OO very often
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17:20:10 <ais523> [17:20] [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: 21 seconds.
17:20:17 <ais523> sorry about that, I'm having connection trouble
17:20:22 <ais523> what did you say recently, if anything?
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17:25:13 <oklopol> i haven't taken into account the case where
17:25:43 <oklopol> you have like a rewrite abcd abc == drop more than just a connection
17:25:50 <oklopol> i mean drop an actual node
17:26:02 <oklopol> the original example just had a connection drop
17:26:25 <ais523> although abcd abc would be a bit strange, it would drop a 'tail' at the end of any three connected nodes
17:26:32 <ais523> because anything could link to the a, b, or c
17:26:40 <ais523> but the d would have to link only to the c
17:27:12 <tusho> #define cons(a,b) a,b
17:27:16 <tusho> #define car(a,...) a
17:27:25 <tusho> #define cdr(a,...) __VA_ARGS__
17:27:40 <tusho> you need extra parens
17:27:41 <ais523> tusho: but you can't have an eval, so that's of limited use
17:27:54 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p646231414.txt
17:27:58 <tusho> ais523: well cpp isn't tc
17:27:59 <tusho> but it's still fun
17:28:00 <ais523> besides you can do it even in C89, using nested parens
17:28:05 <oklopol> i don't expect you to be able to read that, but you might be able to test it
17:28:27 <tusho> it's not too unreadable oklopol
17:28:29 <oklopol> rewrite does have some comments, they might give some hints
17:28:39 <tusho> it's an import!!1111
17:28:46 <tusho> your oklo license is revoked.
17:29:22 <oklopol> but hey, i'm using it because i'm doing functional & imperative changes so randomly dispersed i have no idea whether i even need the copies!
17:29:30 <oklopol> well i do, but i didn't when i imported it
17:32:50 <oklopol> okay i think it can drop nodes now
17:34:55 <oklopol> okay, it looks like it works
17:35:50 <ais523> oklopol: starting with bacadae, what happens when you use the rewrite rule ab dcbcecf?
17:36:04 <oklopol> rewriting abc with ab->a and ab->b give results a_c and bc, of course could both produce either result, but in practise this somewhat proves it worked
17:36:17 <ais523> just coming up with another example off the top of my head
17:37:38 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p545325321.txt
17:38:10 * tusho notices the irony of supertux on os x
17:38:43 <oklopol> basically you have a star, and you kinda blow it up into new starts
17:38:50 <ais523> can you explain the format you're using?
17:39:25 <ais523> why are there a lot of nodes that don't link to anything?
17:39:29 <oklopol> each element E in the list represent the node first E connected to all of (second E)
17:39:39 <oklopol> because the a that's dropped
17:39:47 <oklopol> can be the link to what's keeping it together
17:39:53 <ais523> also everything seems to be connected to [11]
17:39:55 <ais523> which doesn't seem to exist
17:40:02 <oklopol> oh, well that is prolly wrong.
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17:45:34 <oklopol> ais523: it correctly leaves some guys without connectinos
17:45:47 <oklopol> but, i need to rename shit as i rewrite
17:46:09 <oklopol> forgot to rename some of the connections, so
17:46:18 <oklopol> the 11 you see there, is only 11 in the connection lists, and 13 as the actual node
17:48:49 <oklopol> ah, right, right, the problem is just that i'm doing the renamings one by one
17:49:14 <oklopol> so if you have *interconnected* new cells, some of them will refer to the old guys, some to the renamed ones
17:49:23 <oklopol> so i just need to do a separate renaming loop
17:54:48 <oklopol> [(0, []), (2, []), (4, []), (5, []), (13, [14, 15, 16, 17]), (15, [13]), (16, [13]), (17, [13])]
17:55:25 <oklopol> wait i'll show the actual result
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17:56:21 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p535322355.txt
17:56:45 <oklopol> first step looks correct, unless you want it to do something cleverer in that situation, i didn't check the rest
17:56:58 <ais523> because it isn't changing the graph at all
17:57:03 <ais523> you end up with the same graph on every step
17:57:16 <oklopol> just looked at the first one
17:57:28 <ais523> the first one is also wrong
17:57:54 <oklopol> umm, what should the result be then?
17:58:06 <oklopol> [(3, [0, 2, 4, 5]), (0, [3]), (2, [3]), (4, [3]), (5, [3])]
17:58:18 <oklopol> [(11, [6, 9, 10, 12]), (6, [11]), (9, [11]), (10, [11]), (12, [11])]
17:58:30 <oklopol> [(0, []), (2, []), (4, []), (5, []), (13, [14, 15, 16, 17]), (15, [13]), (16, [13]), (17, [13])]
17:58:44 <oklopol> current match tells us what was matched against what
17:59:03 <ais523> oklopol: that match is incorrect; because the 8 is on only one side of the rewrite rule, it's not allowed to match 3 because they have different degrees
17:59:29 <ais523> things on both sides of the rewrite rule can have extra connections
17:59:33 <ais523> things on only one side can't have
17:59:40 <ais523> I think I said this before, but possibly I wasn't clear
17:59:51 <oklopol> well i missed all your rewriting explanations
18:00:03 <oklopol> just took the obvious approach
18:00:06 <ais523> and I need to get around to writing a spec and some examples
18:00:10 <oklopol> but yeah, that's an obvious enhancement
18:00:19 <oklopol> i'll fix that, should be a simple job
18:03:35 <ais523> I'll spec up the I/O too while I'm at it
18:08:19 <AnMaster> ais523, anything you wish to speak about?
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18:17:49 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p311541526.txt
18:17:58 <oklopol> ais523: what about this one? in case you can see right away
18:21:08 <oklopol> it seems 3 is, for some reason, renamed to 14
18:24:13 <oklopol> how about now? http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p463545331.txt
18:24:24 <oklopol> forgot debug info there :P
18:24:35 <oklopol> also a typo in the debug info.
18:24:50 <oklopol> but i now realize that's almost crucial
18:25:01 <oklopol> let's make sure the old one still works :)
18:28:02 <oklopol> lol, actually seems the match now fails for that one.
18:28:34 <oklopol> i'll debug, damn i wish i wasn't this stubborn, i could just have written the program well-structured to begin with :P
18:31:11 <tusho> oklopol: a well-structured oklopol program would be weird
18:31:35 <tusho> classes when appropriate, legible names, use of the standard library features, whitespace in the right places...
18:31:37 <tusho> it'll never happen
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18:32:09 <oklopol> oh actually once again the actual program logic was correct, i just failed to call the functions right \o/.
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18:32:25 <oklopol> if you rewrite from A to B
18:32:29 <oklopol> you need the same namespace for them
18:32:39 <oklopol> i forgot to pass the same namespace, passed the empty dict
18:33:06 <ais523> oklopol: one thing which would be nice but not necessary would be to put the graphs back into eodermdrome-format for printing
18:33:10 <AnMaster> <tusho> classes when appropriate, legible names, use of the standard library features, whitespace in the right places...
18:33:22 <oklopol> ais523: i know, wondered whether i should do that
18:33:37 <oklopol> tusho: i actually use classes quite a lot
18:33:48 <oklopol> but true, not always where appropriate
18:33:53 <tusho> oklopol: well yeah, but not very consistently and you have loads of standalone functions operating on classes
18:34:09 <tusho> also, i think a more legible oklo program could actually be shorted
18:34:18 <tusho> due to the whole 'pillage the standard library' thing
18:34:33 <oklopol> usually i just import functions, my own random shit library
18:34:43 <tusho> yes, this is hypothetical
18:35:16 <oklopol> whitespace will indeed probably never happen
18:35:23 <oklopol> in python, that is, gets so ugly
18:35:29 <AnMaster> oklopol, you code in python right?
18:35:41 <AnMaster> so your indention whitespaces will be right at least?
18:35:42 <oklopol> i don't like it when there are empty spots.
18:36:06 <oklopol> i always do indentation correct, python has taught me that
18:36:31 <AnMaster> oklopol, why does it "looks awful"
18:36:49 <oklopol> err, because there isn't a space between foo and bar anywhere, i guess
18:36:54 <oklopol> makes it look kinda unbalanced.
18:37:13 <oklopol> "objectively, it is more readable"?
18:37:26 <oklopol> that's definitely subjective
18:37:34 <AnMaster> oklopol, I remember reading some paper on it
18:37:38 <Deewiant> I reserve a space between foo and the rest for when foo is a keyword
18:37:54 <oklopol> AnMaster: some papers suck
18:38:09 <AnMaster> oklopol, a scientific studdy yes
18:38:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes I do put in a space for if/while and such
18:38:41 <oklopol> AnMaster: i don't really believe in stuff that stuff can inherently be easier to read.
18:38:47 <oklopol> i can get used to anything in about a day
18:38:58 <oklopol> but whatever, who cares about this shit
18:39:03 <AnMaster> oklopol, well then you can get used to the style I suggest too ;P
18:39:06 <oklopol> whitespace is trivial to add yourself
18:39:10 <tusho> AnMaster: but it's more work for him
18:39:14 <oklopol> AnMaster: or you can get used to mine.
18:39:34 <oklopol> or we can do what i was originally doing: not read each others code :)
18:39:38 <AnMaster> oklopol, not really, because I do believe that certain stuff "can inherently be easier to read"
18:40:06 <AnMaster> oklopol, compare a hex dump of machine code to asm
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18:40:23 <oklopol> ais523: more examples / IO rules done soon?
18:40:34 <ais523> I was working on something else
18:40:46 <AnMaster> oklopol, don't tell me they are the same, because then you are lying
18:40:48 <oklopol> AnMaster: okay, i agree some structures of whole programs are easier to navigate within.
18:40:49 <ais523> but the IO rules are pretty simple:
18:41:04 <ais523> rules can have a set of characters in parens before or after them
18:41:10 <AnMaster> oklopol, and indention is better than all the code on one line?
18:41:26 <AnMaster> as in the whole file on one line
18:41:30 <ais523> a rewrite rule with chars in parens before it can only be applied by removing one of those chars from the start of stdin
18:41:37 <oklopol> duh, you can't navigate if there isn't an easy way to find where logical lines begin or end
18:41:45 <ais523> and a rewrite rule with a char in parens after it writes that char to stdout when it's applied
18:42:03 <ais523> and ofc there can be more than one rewrite rule, and they run like in Thue, that is whichever rule matches will run
18:42:30 <AnMaster> oklopol, and what about newlines but no indention, just lots of nested { } but no indention change at all?
18:42:43 <AnMaster> (this doesn't apply to python of course)
18:42:51 <oklopol> AnMaster: this is all a navigational issue.
18:42:51 <ais523> oklopol: just grep for DO or PLEASE
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18:42:59 <Deewiant> I believe that {} always implies indentation, but just stuff like if/for/while necessarily doesn't
18:43:01 <oklopol> i believe some structures are easier to navigate through
18:43:49 <oklopol> well yes, but this is an algorithmic difference; not something people are born with, but something you get for any visual system.
18:43:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well C doesn't force you to indent
18:43:57 <AnMaster> in fact only python does afaik
18:44:10 <Deewiant> yes, and I find it annoying that python does
18:45:58 <ais523> well, I like to not be able to indent sometimes
18:46:16 <oklopol> before python, i didn't indent at all, thought indenting was lame
18:46:17 <ais523> I like the Haskell method: pretty indentation-based blocks, but you can just use { } instead if you prefer
18:46:26 <oklopol> later, i've realized it actually is handier
18:46:56 <oklopol> well yeah, you shouldn't make programming too easy for yourself :D
18:47:15 <oklopol> or, well, easy for others to read, i guess that was another issue
18:47:19 <ais523> the thing that annoys me about indented code is that the indentation doesn't really help with very long block
18:47:33 <oklopol> haskell does it pretty prefectly
18:47:55 <AnMaster> <ais523> I like the Haskell method: pretty indentation-based blocks, but you can just use { } instead if you prefer <-- sounds very nice
18:48:31 <Sgeo> DM also does that, iirc
18:49:10 <AnMaster> <ais523> the thing that annoys me about indented code is that the indentation doesn't really help with very long block <-- it doesn't help as much you mean?, well... I got to say long blocks should be refactored when possible
18:49:35 <ais523> I mean it's no good for visual matching of the start and end of a block if you have to scroll
18:50:12 <AnMaster> yes which is why you shouldn't have a block longer than about 30 lines if you can avoid it
18:50:22 <AnMaster> for example a huge switch case
18:50:25 <Sgeo> DM = DreamMaker language
18:50:30 <Sgeo> It's used by BYOND
18:50:44 <Sgeo> developer.byond.com
18:50:49 <Sgeo> Build Your Own Net Dream
18:51:06 <Sgeo> byond.com it lets people make their own 2d tile-based-ish games somewhat easily
18:51:13 <Sgeo> Windows-only though :(
18:51:20 <AnMaster> sigh. not yet another toolkit for such
18:51:21 <Sgeo> And not Free, but it is free
18:53:04 <oklopol> i recall making stuff in games factory
18:53:32 <lament> is that the thing with little 32x32 pictures flying around?
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18:54:55 <oklopol> gf let you have pictures of any sizes, and calculated normals from the drawings quite well
18:55:18 <Sgeo> byond uses icons of fixed size
18:56:24 <oklopol> although the collisions did fail especially with a larger amount of objects
18:56:33 <oklopol> not that my games usually work any better in that sense :P
18:57:23 <AnMaster> the best is to code it in a real language
18:57:32 <oklopol> ais523: AnMaster distracted me and i'm too lazy to scroll up, so i'll go over what i think i recall you said
18:57:40 <tusho> AnMaster: it's not a very good troll any more.
18:57:42 <tusho> you can stop saying
18:57:52 <AnMaster> tusho, well compared to game factory
18:57:57 <tusho> "AHA! But I'll end this discussion with: Your language is not real and lazy. C and C++ winzorz!!12121123123123817812381689`923`9223"
18:58:01 <oklopol> actually i have little idea
18:58:06 <ais523> oklopol: never work because there's nothing in parens
18:58:06 <AnMaster> tusho, I agree python would work too
18:58:07 <tusho> AnMaster: 'the best is to code it in a real language'
18:58:08 <tusho> that would be enough
18:58:12 <tusho> 'say, C or even C++' = useless
18:58:19 <oklopol> ais523: can you go over the semantics once more?
18:58:23 <AnMaster> tusho, they were just examples
18:58:31 <ais523> would replace abc with rf (i.e. delete it and create a two-element graph elsewhere) if e, f, or g was next on the input string
18:58:36 <AnMaster> tusho, sorry I forgot: "INCLUDING BUT LIMITED TO"
18:58:45 <AnMaster> I didn't know I would have to write a legal document...
18:58:47 <tusho> but limited to, yeah.
18:58:58 <ais523> oklopol: ok, something in parens before a rule means that one of those characters has to be on stdin for the rule to match (the character is removed afterwards)
18:59:02 <AnMaster> see I suck I writing legalspeak
18:59:07 <ais523> oklopol: and something in parens after a rule is printed out whenever the rule matches
18:59:47 <oklopol> ais523: so basically all this happens at a separate level from the subst-engine
18:59:57 <ais523> it's just preconditions and side effects
19:00:12 <ais523> also, a program is just multiple rules like that
19:00:23 <ais523> and they can be matched whenever they match
19:00:44 <ais523> oklopol: I was going to have whitespace-separated, but that's ambiguous with the parens
19:00:50 <ais523> so you could write eodermdrome poetry
19:01:01 <ais523> maybe output should be parens in the middle of a rule
19:01:47 <oklopol> or just, like, require them everywhere, and have . be the null requirement / null input
19:02:03 <oklopol> null input / output, that is
19:02:17 <ais523> a bit ugly, probably, most of the time you won't be doing I/O
19:02:23 <ais523> and presumably, a program ends when no rules match
19:02:24 <oklopol> but yeah, this is just bikeshedding, if i'm using the term correctly
19:02:55 <oklopol> right there's prolly be like a few rules that do the actual io
19:03:38 <oklopol> btw looks like it's IO-complete in that you can have an arbitrary function between I and O
19:04:10 <oklopol> say you have a separate input for each char, and a separate output for each char
19:04:29 <oklopol> since you can also have the arbitrary rule, you can do anything between taking the inputs
19:04:52 <oklopol> output can be anything quite trivially
19:06:18 <oklopol> let's say it's IO-complete
19:06:34 <oklopol> you have to have all inputs ready and usable all the time
19:06:49 <oklopol> so it's possible they all trigger at once, and you can't know the order in which the inputs came
19:07:05 <ais523> oklopol: no, they only trigger on the first char of stdin
19:07:09 <oklopol> because it's not specified whether any possible locking will reach the other input nodes before the next input is taken
19:07:12 <ais523> and remove the char when they trigger
19:07:20 <oklopol> ais523: yes, that's not what i said
19:07:24 <ais523> so I think it's IO-complete
19:07:37 <oklopol> let's say you need to read a's and b's, and the order is important
19:07:47 <ais523> then you have a rule marked (a) that makes a change
19:07:54 <oklopol> now you need to have your program in a state where it can read either
19:07:54 <ais523> and a rule marked (b) that changes the same thing a different way
19:08:10 <oklopol> it can flunctuate between these two states, but i think the problem still occurs
19:08:57 <oklopol> actually, if it flunctuates, and it's in the a state, getting the a in would prolly trigger the lock on taking b as input, before the state could fluctuate to taking b in
19:09:10 <oklopol> *fluctuate/flunctuate everywhere, i don't remember which it is
19:09:22 <ais523> fluctuate's the real world
19:09:31 <oklopol> well i remember it's the first, but i didn't when i wrote that
19:09:50 <oklopol> anyway, forget what i said there, i'm pretty sure it's io complete too, now.
19:09:53 <ais523> let me see if I can come up with an example which would record the sequence of a and b
19:09:56 <AnMaster> <ais523> so I think it's IO-complete
19:10:13 <ais523> AnMaster: like Brainfuck, can manage arbitrary IO on stdin and stdout
19:10:17 <oklopol> AnMaster: that it can input to output through any function
19:10:38 <oklopol> AnMaster: different concept
19:10:45 <tusho> if you have "..." outputs ...
19:10:47 <tusho> it's not IO-complete
19:10:51 <tusho> you can't write a fibonacci prorgam
19:11:36 <ais523> starting with abcdefgab, you can use (a) ab acdaf (b) ab acdeaf
19:11:52 <ais523> (a) ab acdafg (b) ab acdeafg
19:12:02 <oklopol> basically, for every function F from strings to strings, a program can be written to map input to output through the function F
19:12:38 <ais523> well, every computable function
19:12:39 <oklopol> ais523: why abcdefgab, why not just abcdefga?
19:12:58 <oklopol> and yeah, every computable function
19:13:01 <ais523> oklopol: giving it a tail to start with
19:13:12 <oklopol> err, i think those are equivalent
19:13:13 <ais523> it works by extending the tail, putting triangles and squares on it for a and b
19:13:46 <ais523> that even ends with gah
19:14:13 <oklopol> ais523: that says nothing about order
19:14:33 <ais523> oklopol: what, you mean order on the input?
19:14:38 <oklopol> ababbbab will give an equivalent result to what aaabbbbb gives
19:14:44 <oklopol> well, equivalent set of possible results
19:14:55 <oklopol> ais523: well yeah, that was what my point above was about
19:15:14 <ais523> oklopol: no, they give different results
19:15:29 <ais523> at least with my corrected version
19:15:29 <oklopol> hmm, well yeah, but there are results both can give
19:15:34 <ais523> (a) ab acdafg (b) ab acdeafg
19:15:39 <ais523> oklopol: I don't think there are
19:17:06 <oklopol> let's say you have "ab" @ stdin
19:17:19 <ais523> then the first rule can run
19:17:26 <ais523> but the second rule can't, because there isn't a b at the start of stdin
19:17:32 <oklopol> now you take two random adjacent nodes in the ring
19:17:44 <ais523> oklopol: ab doesn't mean two random adjacent nodes!
19:17:45 <oklopol> these random nodes can be the exact same ones with input ba too
19:17:47 <ais523> the b isn't in the second string
19:17:55 <ais523> so it only matches a node of degree 1
19:18:14 <AnMaster> ais523, btw my CFFI won't work but now I see how I could make it work
19:18:26 <oklopol> yes, yes, i corrected your typo, so it's only fair you correct my massive semantical error :P
19:18:29 <AnMaster> will need a few days work on the specs though (no pun intended)
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19:19:33 <oklopol> and the ab after the first sub will again only match the tail
19:19:52 <ais523> yes, that's how it works
19:20:17 <oklopol> although i do think this kind of stuff is tons easier to write than read
19:20:56 <oklopol> shop closes soon, need to visit it now
19:21:12 <oklopol> i'll add io tonight, and make the actual interp, that should be quite trivial
19:21:29 <oklopol> decide on the syntax before that, if you have the time
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19:32:53 <oklopol> i need to make something to draw them up for me, might be nice to make a graphical IDE to eodermdrome.
19:32:59 <oklopol> not many tarpits have one :D
19:33:29 <oklopol> of course the ascii part of it is the point
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19:34:28 <oklopol> i've always considered graph rewriting something very fundamental and conceptually beautiful, but i now realize this is actually the first time i implement it, or even see it in action, except for manual runs
19:34:57 <oklopol> we've played a graph rewriting game with a few friends, but that got a bit too complex
19:36:10 <oklopol> also another idea i had, i should make something that converts a graphica graph, a graph with values and tags for nodes, and tags for the possibly directed connections
19:36:28 <oklopol> an undirected graph with no extra info
19:37:14 <oklopol> so that you'd encode all the direction data, and contents of the nodes into pure graph structures
19:37:32 <oklopol> graphica just has numbers and lists
19:38:22 <oklopol> well actually my implementation also has strings, but you can't see that anyway
19:38:32 <oklopol> ais523: done with syntax possible?
19:38:46 <oklopol> i'm going to leave soon, for about an hour
19:38:59 <oklopol> and i imagine you'll be gone just before i get back :P
19:39:12 <ais523> oklopol: I suggest whitespace-delimited, input in parens before a command, output in parens inside a command
19:39:12 <oklopol> so, if you finish it, leave a link or something behind
19:39:30 <ais523> and a command is the two halves of the rewrite rule separated by whitespace
19:39:43 <ais523> also you can have input and output on the same command if you like
19:39:52 <ais523> and closing paren must be the first char
19:39:57 <ais523> if it's any of the chars given
19:40:23 <oklopol> yeah. output is limited by that ofc
19:40:47 <AnMaster> <oklopol> i need to make something to draw them up for me, might be nice to make a graphical IDE to eodermdrome.
19:40:47 <AnMaster> <oklopol> not many tarpits have one :D
19:40:52 <oklopol> limited as in, makes some stuff harder.
19:41:09 <oklopol> not limited as in makes it non io-complete
19:41:20 <oklopol> except for characters you can't write on the prog code
19:41:39 <AnMaster> ais523, does the language have comments?
19:42:00 <oklopol> , comment in between these ,
19:42:09 <ais523> AnMaster: specs are this channel
19:42:14 <ais523> but I should write them up sometime
19:43:13 <oklopol> ais523: you'll get the full interp tomorrow, unless i'm given an excessive amount of sexual tasks or something tonight
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19:43:45 <Deewiant> or hmm, it might be a macro somewhere actually
19:43:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does all major implementations have?
19:43:57 <ais523> AnMaster: it's C99 I think
19:44:18 <Deewiant> evidently it's C90: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offsetof
19:44:20 <ais523> anyway it's possible to write it yourself, just difficult
19:44:31 <Deewiant> except that I'd have said it's trivial :-P
19:45:25 <tusho> AnMaster: you can write it yourself
19:45:36 <tusho> #define offsetof(st, m) ( (char *)&((st *)(0))->m - (char *)&((st *)(0)) )
19:45:45 <ais523> tusho: you just copied that off Wikipedia
19:45:48 <ais523> besides it doesn't always work
19:45:56 <ais523> that depends on the way pointers are implemented
19:46:03 <AnMaster> what about typeof(), that is a GCC extension right?
19:46:07 <ais523> Deewiant: because adding offsets to NULL isn't defined on some architectures
19:46:36 <Deewiant> ais523: wow, what kind of architectures
19:46:49 <ais523> Deewiant: all the ones on which NULL is a special value and isn't just some value in memory
19:47:11 <ais523> i.e. the ones that represent NULL differently from all other pointers, think struct pointer {void* address, bool isnull}
19:47:28 <Deewiant> well, surely the compiler can anyway tell that that boils down to essentially the offset of ->m
19:47:36 <tusho> Deewiant: if it could
19:47:38 <tusho> then it'd support offsetof
19:47:54 <Deewiant> "support offsetof"? what do you mean
19:48:13 <AnMaster> it would be possible to implement offsetof still, just more difficult
19:48:20 <ais523> tusho: it still can support offsetof, you just have to implement it differently
19:48:28 <tusho> they'd implement is natively
19:48:29 <Deewiant> the difference would be that you have to give it a variable
19:48:30 <tusho> if they were clever enough to tell
19:48:38 <Deewiant> but that'd be a compiler extension
19:48:42 <ais523> Deewiant: I agree that when you have variables it's easy
19:48:50 <Deewiant> and since this is C, we do have variables. :-)
19:49:06 <tusho> where is oklopol :<
19:49:10 <Deewiant> use that, it's probably more optimal!!
19:49:17 <AnMaster> * oklopol has quit (Client Quit)
19:49:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it is just for those arches
19:49:34 <tusho> Deewiant: it's 7 seconds faster
19:49:43 <tusho> (so it actually takes -7 seconds to run)
19:49:53 <tusho> you LOSE 7 seconds running time
19:49:57 <tusho> just by including it in your program!
19:49:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also there is another case where that is useful: macros can evaluate parameters more than once
19:50:14 <tusho> AnMaster: quick, make a file consisting of 1000000000000 __builtin_offsetof's
19:50:17 <Deewiant> unless it's documented that they don't
19:50:24 <tusho> cfunge will finish running before it's even started!
19:50:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Offsetof.html#Offsetof
19:50:44 <Deewiant> and, in the case of offsetof, why would you give it anything in which how many times it's evaluated matters
19:51:04 <tusho> i'd comment that i'm not being an idiot and arguably the way you optimise cfunge is more idiotic
19:51:08 <Deewiant> yeah, so in this case it doesn't matter at all
19:51:19 <AnMaster> anyway the only issue here was if offsetof() was standard C or not
19:53:19 <AnMaster> tusho, that one has been done...
19:53:26 <tusho> i felt like breaking it
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19:58:12 <tusho> AnMaster: you did it in tex.
19:58:29 <tusho> ⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄
19:58:37 <tusho> °‹‡°· °‚·°—‚‚‚‚±—°°·‡⁄ ‚·°™⁄fl‡fifi⁄™‹›fi
19:58:43 <tusho> ŒËÈ„ŒÊÁ„ÊÁ‰„ËÁÊŒ„‰ÈËÁÁÁÁÈØ∏ÈØ∏”ØØ”’∏”’”’
19:58:43 <AnMaster> <tusho> ⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄⁄
19:58:48 <tusho> ÅÍÓÌÏÌÅÍÎÌÓÔJHDKJFHÒÔÒÚÍÅÚÚÆÒÚÆ
19:58:53 <tusho> ÛÛÇı◊ÙÇıˆÇ˜ˆı˜ˆ¯ˆ¯˜˜˜ˆ˘¯˜¯˘¿˘¯¿¿˘
19:59:01 <tusho> AnMaster: Not /. ⁄.
19:59:29 <tusho> not exactly the same, AnMaster.
19:59:49 <AnMaster> tusho, they are exactly the same in bitstream vera sans
20:00:01 <AnMaster> tusho, they are exactly the same in bitstream vera sans
20:00:09 <tusho> then bitstream vera sans is broken.
20:00:45 <Deewiant> I'm using Dejavu Sans Mono and I just get boxes for the latter :-/
20:00:48 <AnMaster> I wouldn't use a variable font width in my terminal would I
20:00:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well dejavu got it here too
20:01:38 <Deewiant> on linux, programs can generally fill in from other fonts
20:01:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, try a more recent version of dejvavu?
20:01:43 <Deewiant> or it depends on the program I guess
20:01:55 <Deewiant> on windows, firefox at least does it
20:02:07 <tusho> Ò˜ÍÚňËÈ„Ó·°ÊÍÎ87Y*‡Á*&Y*¥•¶¥•¶¥•¶¥ª•¨ªº^ºª¡`˚ªº˚
20:02:09 <Deewiant> so if it's not in the font, it just displays a box
20:02:11 <AnMaster> same result in the xchat on the same bnc
20:02:40 <Deewiant> like said, on linux most programs do it, on windows I'm not sure but at least PuTTY doesn't. :-P
20:02:53 <AnMaster> Deewiant, rather GTK and KDE does it
20:03:11 <AnMaster> tusho, they differ in the monospaced courier new btw
20:03:12 <Deewiant> maybe, I don't know at what level this kind of thing would happen
20:03:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the font engine I guess
20:03:38 <AnMaster> which for gtk apps would be pango
20:04:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I do sometimes get boxes even here though
20:04:19 <Deewiant> or was it cairo? well, whatever
20:04:40 <AnMaster> Description: A vector graphics library with cross-device output support
20:04:51 <AnMaster> Description: Text rendering and layout library
20:08:32 -!- Corun has joined.
20:14:01 <olsner> oklo is gone? did we have to remove him from the channel to put him in the topic?
20:15:24 <tusho> he screamed for days
20:15:27 <tusho> but it had to be done
20:15:52 <olsner> well, I understand your reasoning, but isn't he less fun in the topic than in the channel?
20:16:09 <tusho> you'd think, but just wait until he wakes up
20:16:19 <tusho> the topic will be more fun than that time I wrote a bot that did rule 101 in the topic.
20:17:31 <olsner> rule 101? is that one of the TC ones?
20:17:34 <tusho> cellular automata, dude
20:17:44 <tusho> i also wrote a bot that made the topic into a ticker
20:17:50 <AnMaster> tusho, where are these rules classified?
20:18:36 <tusho> repeat ad infinitum
20:18:51 <AnMaster> tusho, where are the rules like rule 101 classified?
20:21:33 <olsner> it's kind of like an 8-dimensional categorization of the possible cellular automaton rules
20:27:02 <lilja> olsner: what do you mean?
20:28:08 <olsner> lilja: nah, just obfuscating
20:56:06 -!- pikhq has left (?).
20:56:36 -!- oklopol has joined.
20:58:00 <oklopol> i was thinking about something like, you have a global time, and call/cc, a continuation will carry the time stamp of whenever it was created, and the global time will tick each time something is called, and evaluation order is explicit
20:58:23 <oklopol> now, you can have conditions on the timestamps
20:59:04 <olsner> oklopol: having fun in the topic, are we?
20:59:27 <oklopol> so that you get like, say, five continuations in, and if the first is earlier than the second, then the third is called with the fifth, otherwise the forth is called with the fifth
20:59:55 <oklopol> also i thought it was the fourth wall
21:00:51 <oklopol> now say you could output a continuation as its timestamp
21:00:53 <augur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwKq7_JlS8
21:00:57 <augur> 12 year old explaining jQuery
21:01:11 <oklopol> augur: that link is so old he's probably died of age
21:01:13 <augur> youre 12 and a total jQuery whore
21:01:13 <tusho> I saw that ages ago
21:01:42 <oklopol> i recall tusho calling me names for not having seen it about a year ago when he showed it to me
21:01:48 <augur> oh god this is so funny
21:01:54 <tusho> oklopol: no i didn't
21:02:02 <oklopol> of course no name calling was actually present, and it was less than a year ago, but you get my point
21:02:05 <tusho> augur: he's not a very good speaker is he
21:02:22 <tusho> <bends down so nobody can see me>
21:02:35 <augur> im not watching this, even if he explains lots
21:02:41 <oklopol> yeah, tusho's the master of adorable
21:03:07 <augur> someone should've gotten high with him before he went on stage
21:03:30 <augur> it'd been more awesome if he was a star presenter ala presentation zen stuff
21:03:39 <oklopol> yeah it's not good if kids get high alone
21:03:48 <oklopol> they shuold always have their parents with them
21:04:29 <tusho> oklopol: javascript library
21:04:29 <augur> a really shitty javascript framework tusho loves.
21:04:34 <tusho> does ajax and dom manipulation
21:04:39 <tusho> and augur hates it because he can't get it working
21:04:42 <oklopol> i didn't actually watch that when tusho showed it, just memorized the beginning so i could tell people it's old!
21:04:46 <augur> its not me who cant get it working
21:04:50 <tusho> and calls its writer an idiot because he can't personally get it working
21:05:07 <augur> ive never even bothered to touch it
21:05:17 <augur> its the ressig's own examples that dont work
21:05:43 <augur> when the person who designed it cant make his shit work in Safari or Firefox, then I'm not going to give it much attention.
21:06:52 <tusho> he works for mozilla.
21:06:56 <tusho> of course it works in firefox.
21:07:05 <augur> since ive seen it NOT work in FF.
21:07:25 <tusho> i guess the thousands of people using jquery in ff and safari are just hallucinating huh
21:07:42 <tusho> and because you, one person, can't get it working in either, it's obviously totally broken and shit in both and could not possibly be a problem at your end
21:07:45 <augur> i dont know, i cant speak for thousands of people that i'm not.
21:08:07 <augur> but i can only make judgements based on my experience.
21:08:07 <Sgeo> Try other sites that use jquery?
21:08:23 <augur> im not saying nothing in jQuery works, mind you
21:08:44 <augur> but that its unnecessarily buggy.
21:08:50 <tusho> i'm saying that "augur's computer is made out of sticks and rocks so its FF is different from everyone else's"
21:09:18 <AnMaster> ais523, any other work in C-INTERCAL?
21:09:24 <oklopol> where is all the flamewar, people
21:09:25 <ais523> no, I've been doing other things
21:09:29 <AnMaster> I still look forward to seeing a C/CLC-INTERCAL FFI
21:09:33 <oklopol> how old was tusho again, augur?'
21:09:47 <augur> 25 and hot as fuck
21:10:26 <augur> you know its true!
21:10:56 <augur> i think theres a t-shirt hell shirt that says
21:11:05 <augur> "I swear officer, I didn't know she was 13!"
21:11:51 <augur> does the t-shirt say 12?
21:12:07 <ais523> augur: does the t-shirt say that tusho's female?
21:12:22 <augur> "Women try to act all mature, but then you stick your cock up their ass and they're like, 'I'm only 13!!!'"
21:12:37 <augur> zsh.org is not a site of funny quotes from irc.
21:13:14 <augur> http://youtube.com/watch?v=TcxpbhM0DaA
21:13:44 <augur> i was recently in germany and i can confirm that all germans are exactly like that.
21:15:29 <oklopol> anyone look at my continuation idea?
21:15:49 <ais523> oklopol: I did, it reminded me a bit of Feather and a bit of TwoDucks
21:16:14 <AnMaster> <augur> http://youtube.com/watch?v=TcxpbhM0DaA
21:16:52 <oklopol> ais523: well they're just continuations though, there can be no paradoxes or anything
21:17:39 <ais523> oklopol: yes, I know, but that sort of lang is good for implementing Feather in
21:18:15 <augur> its from a volkswagen commercial.
21:18:33 <augur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv157ZIInUk
21:18:48 -!- olsner has quit.
21:18:54 <tusho> its not from that one
21:18:59 <tusho> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1vxfGBEMmM&feature=related
21:19:01 <tusho> it's from that one
21:19:05 <augur> i know its not but thats not the point
21:19:23 <AnMaster> <augur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv157ZIInUk <-- contains the "oh snap"?
21:19:55 <AnMaster> however one comment is highly accurate "He sounds like a german forrest gump! LOL"
21:19:56 <augur> all you need is to see one video to understand it.
21:20:09 <AnMaster> but I still don't get the point of that strange commercial
21:20:23 <AnMaster> yes I can see why he says "oh snap" because the car broke
21:20:40 <AnMaster> but I just don't get the point of that commercial
21:20:52 <augur> there is no point!
21:21:02 <augur> the point is to be completely bizarre and strange and thus memorable
21:21:26 <augur> neither do i but i remember these from a few years back
21:21:33 <AnMaster> I do read newspapers which has some ads but are normally logical ones
21:21:44 <augur> they were quite humorous back when they came out because they were hilarious
21:22:02 <AnMaster> augur, well are commercials still as absurd?
21:22:16 <augur> dunno, i dont watch tv anymore.
21:22:23 <augur> podcasts have replaced by TV watching habits
21:22:35 <augur> which is now off the air for a fucking year those cunt motherfuckers
21:22:43 <AnMaster> I remember seeing an *OLD* commercial
21:23:24 <AnMaster> something about a cowboy driving in a VW instead of using a horse
21:23:33 <AnMaster> I wish I could find it again it was fun
21:24:38 <augur> http://youtube.com/watch?v=tRghMpfZXig
21:26:08 <AnMaster> yes but the narrator spoke in English
21:26:20 <augur> yeah well thats nowhere near as funny then.
21:26:54 <AnMaster> anyway it was a Texas accent I remember that
21:28:00 <augur> its humorous to have a german dude hawking a VW by saying that cowboys rustle cattle with them
21:28:33 <augur> as if thats going to make any sense to an german urbanite in the 70s
21:29:46 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
21:36:15 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to RightBack.
21:36:37 -!- RightBack has changed nick to Sgeo.
21:44:11 <AnMaster> ais523, I didn't know you had a page on wikipedia before
21:44:18 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Smith_%28The_Simplest_Universal_Computer_Proof_contest_winner%29
21:44:24 <ais523> yes, I know of that page
21:50:15 <augur> ais, is that really you?
21:50:24 <augur> http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/alex_smith_bio.html << oh.
21:50:30 <ais523> I thought everyone here knew that by now
21:50:32 <augur> i was gonna rape you but you're not my type
21:50:36 <augur> also: neckbeard. :(
21:51:20 <augur> still, not my type. :P
21:51:43 <augur> so, how DID you proove 2,3 was universal?
21:51:52 <ais523> augur: my proof is online, if you want to read i
21:51:54 <augur> not mathematically but conceptually
21:52:10 <ais523> augur: by describing a compiler from cyclic tag systems into it
21:52:27 <ais523> it caused a bit of controversy, because the resulting programs were infinitely long, but they're pretty simply structured
21:52:44 <augur> i dont know enough of the math to grasp the proof. ive never found anything that can explain it in any reasonable way.
21:52:47 <augur> infinitely long programs? lol
21:52:59 <ais523> augur: well, you can't give a finitely long tape to a Turing Machine, it would barf
21:53:00 <tusho> jeez, even I grasped the proof a little
21:53:07 <augur> so you code 2,3 with Java?
21:53:13 <ais523> I don't think there's anything particularly difficult in the proof
21:53:20 <ais523> augur: no, no Java there at all
21:53:21 <tusho> lol! he made a joke about java!
21:53:23 <oklopol> i grasped the 4 pages i read completely :)
21:53:27 <tusho> they're just as fresh as jokes about MS
21:53:28 <ais523> I wrote some example Perl programs
21:53:30 <augur> tusho, i havent even looked at the proof yet so i
21:53:31 <tusho> ais523: he meant: infinitely long programs
21:53:38 <tusho> he was making an incredibly witty comment about the verbosity of java
21:53:40 <augur> dont even know what it will be like. :P
21:53:48 <ais523> then they made me translate them into Mathematica, and the resulting programs were a lot slower
21:54:15 <augur> tusho dont be so confrontational
21:54:26 <tusho> raping is pretty confrontational
21:54:35 <tusho> not that, you know, I have any prior experience.
21:54:37 <augur> quiet you! ::rapes your mouth::
21:55:12 <augur> dont worry, oklopol, you know i only love you.
21:56:10 <augur> tusho's just a receptacle of imaginary interblog cum
21:56:26 <tusho> it's vaguely creepy when you word it like that.
21:56:33 <tusho> actually it's vaguely creepy anyway but,.
21:56:42 <augur> its absolutely hilarious, dont deny it
21:59:20 <oklopol> perhaps i should read the proof someday
22:07:46 -!- atsampson has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)).
22:08:10 <augur> http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2007/2/username-panties.jpg
22:08:18 <augur> the first thing i thought of after seeing that was oklopol. x.x
22:09:28 <tusho> Username: [ oklopol ]
22:09:30 <tusho> Password: [ augur ]
22:17:38 -!- atsampson has joined.
22:17:58 <augur> i'd so buy them for you oklopol
22:18:14 <augur> but then i feel i'd seem like some weird old chickenhawk
22:18:32 <augur> so i think i'll have to deliver them to you in person to reassure that i am not, infact, a chicken hawk.
22:18:50 -!- augur has set topic: augur <3 oklopol.
22:19:44 -!- tusho has set topic: augur <3 violating freenode topic policy.
22:20:27 <tusho> AnMaster: logs must be linked
22:20:35 -!- tusho has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:20:41 <AnMaster> what if there is no logs for a channel?
22:20:50 <ais523> most channels aren't logged
22:20:54 -!- augur has set topic: augur <3 oklopol. also, logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:20:56 -!- tusho has set topic: http:tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:20:56 <ais523> but if there are logs, you have to let people know they exist
22:21:02 -!- augur has set topic: augur <3 oklopol. also, logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:21:05 -!- tusho has set topic: http:tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:21:14 -!- AnMaster has set topic: logs at http:tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:21:18 -!- tusho has set topic: http:tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:21:19 <augur> but that link doesnt work :D
22:21:20 <Sgeo> Where's the //
22:21:28 -!- AnMaster has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:21:31 <ais523> Sgeo: tuso's golfing the topic
22:21:41 <AnMaster> ais523, also that would be per-channel policy, not network wide...
22:21:41 <tusho> it works without ?/
22:21:49 <tusho> check freenode's tos
22:22:00 <tusho> if you have public logs you must link them otherwise it is a violation of privacy
22:22:00 <AnMaster> $ w3m http:tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric
22:22:00 <AnMaster> w3m: Can't load http:tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
22:22:08 -!- ais523 has set topic: http://tinyurl.com/6bts8x.
22:22:17 <AnMaster> Alert!: Unsupported URL scheme!
22:22:25 <ais523> tusho: I was golfing it
22:22:35 <augur> http://hugeurl.com/
22:22:36 <ais523> besides hugeurls don't fit in IRC, generally speaking
22:22:41 <ais523> we need a largebutnothugeurl.com
22:22:47 -!- tusho has set topic: http://vjn.cc/e.
22:22:53 <tusho> thx to oklopol's url service
22:23:22 -!- tusho has set topic: vjn.cc/x.
22:23:31 * Sgeo likes alnk.org
22:23:34 <augur> ITS HOW YOU GET ONTO THE INTERNET
22:24:51 <AnMaster> has a length of 19 characters and resulted in the following TinyURL which has a length of 23 characters:
22:25:05 <Sgeo> Eww vjn.cc uses 302
22:25:20 <Sgeo> IMO, URL redirection services should use the permanent one
22:25:24 <tusho> EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW1!1q212683782346823462934612936213872e12ye8734y458ty5487ty54t87
22:25:53 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs: http://tinyurl.com/6d9eog.
22:26:10 <augur> tinyurl should have something in its script that will only return a new url if its actually shorter.
22:26:21 <ais523> it doesn't work directly
22:26:30 <ais523> I went and redirected TinyURL to itself multiple times
22:26:46 <tusho> ais523: that's LONGER
22:26:49 -!- tusho has set topic: http://vjn.cc/x.
22:26:53 <augur> how is that a lie?
22:26:56 <augur> it was a SUGGESTION
22:27:06 <augur> suggestions cant be lies as they contain no claims to truth
22:27:11 <ais523> tusho: yes, I know it is
22:27:24 <tusho> #vjn, it's some channel oklopol is in
22:27:30 <tusho> volimo or something I think the owner is called?
22:27:35 <tusho> vjn.fi is their main site
22:27:37 <Sgeo> alnk.org has something like that
22:27:56 <AnMaster> has a length of 28 characters and resulted in the following TinyURL which has a length of 28 characters:
22:28:16 -!- atsampson has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:28:23 <ais523> try clicking on that link
22:28:25 <Sgeo> Well, not quite.. http://alnk.org/1gingerpuppy
22:28:31 -!- atsampson has joined.
22:28:34 <augur> is it supposed to do something special? :(
22:28:58 <Sgeo> ais523, the link that the error page provides is broken
22:29:13 -!- Slereah__ has joined.
22:29:17 <Slereah__> http://www.urlfan.com/local/slereah_23_machine/73267573.html
22:29:19 <AnMaster> xrl.us is probably the shortest one
22:29:57 <augur> looks like ais's proof of 2,3
22:30:01 <ais523> Slereah__: I don't get that at all
22:30:08 <tusho> AnMaster: vjn.cc/one-letter
22:30:26 <tusho> Slereah__: Someone linked to it.
22:30:30 <tusho> And that website saw the link.
22:30:34 <tusho> So it noted that it had been linked.
22:30:37 <augur> hahahahahahahahaha
22:30:46 <tusho> (Someone = the pastebin's main page)
22:31:00 <Slereah__> What, does it gater every damn link in the universe?
22:31:03 <tusho> AnMaster: don't use them all ;)
22:31:07 <tusho> Slereah__: no, it spiders sites lookin' for links
22:31:24 <Sgeo> Bleh, I searched myself, only 1 hit
22:31:26 <augur> i have nothing to blog about :(
22:31:37 <augur> but ive started taking photos like CRAZY! :O
22:31:44 <tusho> http://vjn.cc/z *PARENTAL GUIDANCE*
22:32:11 <Slereah__> I only posted the link here, I think
22:32:13 <tusho> Slereah__: their spider found it.
22:32:15 <ais523> tusho: is that a scam to get people to look at goatse?
22:32:17 <tusho> and the pastebin main page
22:32:19 <tusho> will have found it
22:33:48 <augur> i jerked off to that shit when i was tushos age!
22:34:38 <augur> tusho you lied to me!
22:34:46 <Slereah__> Here's a tip : if he invites you for candies
22:34:47 <augur> i thought you were 51!
22:35:02 <augur> unless they're tasty rohypnol candies. i love those.
22:35:48 <tusho> AnMaster: you're logical, right? what evidence do you have for believing i'm not 12?
22:36:19 <AnMaster> you act too much grown up to be that youn
22:36:30 <AnMaster> yet you act too young to be over 30
22:36:45 <AnMaster> tusho, this is just a subjective feeling of course
22:37:01 <tusho> if i acted too grown up why the heck would I pretend to be 12
22:37:13 <tusho> that's not a very grown up thing to do unless I was a paedophile
22:37:15 <AnMaster> tusho, well why the heck are we all in this irc channel?
22:37:41 <AnMaster> Slereah__, blergh you should have gone on some star wars line
22:37:41 <Slereah__> #esoteric isn't the best channel for pedos
22:38:14 <Slereah__> I haven't done anything in a while
22:38:16 <AnMaster> so pretending you are 12 when you aren't, not that strange
22:38:20 <Slereah__> I'm back to warhammer right now :o
22:38:24 <augur> anmaster thinks tusho acts grown up, and rodger and i think he acts childish.
22:38:47 <augur> i think anmaster is 2 years old.
22:38:48 <AnMaster> augur, he does act childish in some ways yes
22:39:04 <augur> well if a 12 year old is a grown up to you
22:39:11 <augur> you must be REALLY young
22:39:15 <AnMaster> augur, no but I don't think he is 12
22:39:24 <augur> you have no sense of humor
22:39:37 <tusho> AnMaster: would you like proof.
22:39:37 <AnMaster> augur, correct. I'm from Sweden
22:39:40 <augur> omg i got a plushy bear when was in riquewir :o
22:39:51 <augur> are you a hot swedish boy?
22:39:52 <ais523> most people here act older than they actually are, I think
22:39:57 <augur> oh tusho, i want proof! :o
22:40:04 <tusho> it would prove one of two things: either i'm a chipmunk, i'm 12, or there's another 12 year old/chipmunk who has said 'octothorpe esoteric'
22:40:13 <AnMaster> augur, I'm a slightly fat (trying to exercise) Swedish 18 years old male
22:40:21 <AnMaster> tusho, your social security number + stuff I can verify it?
22:40:22 <tusho> since august 22, 2007
22:40:26 <augur> probably for under a year
22:40:30 <augur> there see? i was right
22:40:56 <AnMaster> tusho, send me a scan of your ID documents
22:41:08 <tusho> augur: what should i say
22:41:14 <Sgeo> I think I started chatting when I was 12
22:41:21 <AnMaster> to be able to transfer to your bank account
22:41:33 <augur> what should you say??
22:41:40 <augur> anmaster: give me your pic.
22:41:50 <AnMaster> augur, I don't have any on the computer
22:42:04 <augur> ive been on the net since like..
22:42:10 <AnMaster> augur, nor will I put it up on internet
22:42:11 <Sgeo> I used things like "ne1"
22:42:38 <AnMaster> 200n where n i a number I don't remember
22:42:38 <augur> you would've been 2 years old
22:42:59 <tusho> 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998
22:43:03 <Sgeo> I definitely chose "Sgeo" 2001 or earlier
22:43:14 <tusho> but it definitely was 1998-early1999
22:43:26 <augur> well ok, obviously it depends on the part of the year you were born
22:43:40 <AnMaster> well as I'm 18, our family had internet since 1665 or 1996
22:43:45 <augur> i was just doing 12-(2008-1998)
22:43:47 <tusho> augur: so for my audial proof, what should I say
22:43:56 <augur> who said anything about audio proof?
22:44:03 <tusho> augur: i am recording a sample of my voice as proof of my age.
22:44:15 <augur> oh. i was hoping for video.
22:44:16 <Sgeo> Can't voice be manipulated?
22:44:28 <tusho> augur: but i look crap.
22:44:29 <AnMaster> I had internet myself since 2002 or 2003 iirc
22:44:31 <tusho> Sgeo: yes, but not particularly effectively
22:44:33 <augur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5AJYqQFYTw
22:45:03 <oklopol> i don't think older people act any different than younger ones.
22:45:05 <augur> i wanna be galipoka :O
22:45:43 <augur> the kids hilarious.
22:45:48 <oklopol> tusho: did you fail the upload of the logs, or did vjn.cc fail?
22:46:01 <augur> hes like 8 years old or something and hes pretty funny
22:46:16 <oklopol> i think volimo just hacked that together without testing it, it may suck
22:46:27 <tusho> http://filebin.ca/kdyagq/wtf.mp3
22:46:33 <oklopol> also in case people use up all the god ones, i may steal them back :P
22:46:41 <tusho> http://filebin.ca/kdyagq/wtf.mp3 <-- official voice proof
22:46:51 <tusho> regular voice version followed by chipmunk version (not modified)
22:47:15 <augur> tusho: do a galipoka style video.
22:47:24 <augur> aw cmon, it'd be funny!
22:47:31 <tusho> if the second part of the mp3 doesn't convince you nothing will
22:48:06 <tusho> augur: listened to it?
22:48:16 <tusho> AnMaster: and you.
22:48:18 <augur> i so dont believe it
22:48:22 <AnMaster> <augur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5AJYqQFYTw <-- I watched half a minute, well quite well done, but I hate that music style
22:48:23 <tusho> augur: believe what
22:48:24 <augur> its too high pitched
22:48:45 <augur> yes but it doesnt sound like a twelve year olds voice.
22:48:54 <tusho> what does it sound like then
22:49:04 <augur> like you pitch shifted it.
22:49:16 <tusho> although I agree it sounds like it
22:49:29 <augur> if you didnt then you're hilarious
22:50:06 <AnMaster> look I think tusho is way older
22:50:15 <AnMaster> he even admitted at one point iirc
22:50:15 <tusho> AnMaster: what would prove it.
22:50:16 <augur> ignoring that you sound like a horribly stereotypical proper english kid
22:50:39 <AnMaster> that "he like everyone else had substracted 10 years from his age"
22:50:41 <augur> tusho you've lied to me!
22:50:53 <tusho> augur: AnMaster: http://filebin.ca/upgdhg/wtfb.mp3
22:50:53 <ais523> well, Wikipedia says I'm 21
22:51:01 <tusho> that one fades in pitches
22:51:05 <tusho> so you know it's not altered
22:51:22 <augur> fades in pitch? whats that in real audio speak
22:51:29 <tusho> augur: i start off low and go high smoothly.
22:51:37 <augur> that means nothing lol
22:51:48 <augur> pitch shifting can is unaffected by that
22:51:55 <tusho> yes, but it goes low at the start
22:52:11 <tusho> i'm not an EXPERT AUDIO MODIFICATIONER, that's what
22:52:12 <oklopol> the beginning is clearly a child taklign
22:52:41 <AnMaster> tusho, so what do you work with?
22:53:03 <augur> or is tusho's most recent voice sample absolutely hilarious
22:53:12 <tusho> i like the 'five' at the end
22:53:31 <augur> anmaster has no sense of humor
22:53:35 <AnMaster> because he fail so much at audio editing
22:53:36 <augur> we've already established this
22:53:45 <AnMaster> augur, I do like some humours books
22:53:52 <tusho> i have not edited it once, AnMaster
22:54:11 <AnMaster> tusho, is this your little brother then?
22:54:18 <AnMaster> tusho, look you *act* all grown up
22:54:36 <AnMaster> you admitted to having used internet in 1998-1999
22:54:38 <tusho> here, i'll say "fuck you AnMaster", do you think my little brother would say that? :p
22:55:11 <AnMaster> look there is no way I will believe you are anything below 16-17
22:55:17 <tusho> AnMaster: what about photo evidence.
22:55:23 <tusho> would that be my little brother too?
22:55:25 <augur> i'll take video evidence.
22:55:31 <augur> but photo evidence is fine.
22:55:37 <tusho> AnMaster: what if I held up a sign saying #esoteric
22:55:42 <augur> i could put it on 4chan.
22:55:46 <oklopol> yes, i think it's the funniest thing i've ever heard
22:55:59 <augur> i wouldnt anyway. i cant stand 4chan
22:56:03 <oklopol> i gotta stop takling without being @ the bottom of the backlog
22:56:11 <tusho> AnMaster: you seem to think I'm an awesome image and audio manipulator
22:56:16 <tusho> but I'll hand-write it
22:56:41 <AnMaster> *I* could do it with a few minutes work
22:56:44 <tusho> what evidence can I give you, AnMaster
22:56:47 <tusho> what would be conclusive :P
22:56:57 <AnMaster> tusho, nothing except meeting you in person
22:57:25 <tusho> link me one that isn't gtk
22:57:27 <tusho> and that has os x binaries
22:57:48 <oklopol> nude pics so we see yours haven't descented yet
22:57:53 <AnMaster> http://squonk.abacab.org/dokuwiki/fgcom
22:57:59 <augur> yes, definitely nudes.
22:58:27 <tusho> AnMaster: i don't want to download a flight simulator
22:58:28 <oklopol> now *i* could easily be 12.
22:58:33 <tusho> ah, how about ninjam
22:58:39 <AnMaster> tusho, that's the only voip I got installed, but sure point me to some other
22:58:42 <augur> oklopol, you'd be too sexy for a 12 year old
22:58:44 <tusho> ninjam is open source
22:58:46 <tusho> ninjam.com/download.php
22:59:05 <augur> i have skype, do i need to skype with you tusho?
22:59:12 <tusho> augur: that wouldn't prove it to _anmaster_
22:59:14 <tusho> but you could record it
22:59:46 <tusho> augur: k, in a min
22:59:47 <augur> asterix was a comic from france
22:59:47 <AnMaster> tusho, and yes doing it with augur would work
22:59:59 <AnMaster> augur, yes and asterisk is a open source voip system
23:00:06 <augur> i'll only do it with oklopol.
23:00:06 <tusho> asterisk is bloated
23:00:10 <augur> but i'll skype with tusho.
23:00:17 <augur> tusho: psygnisfive
23:00:20 <AnMaster> tusho, well fgcom use asterisk
23:00:32 <augur> ofcourse, if you and anmaster had ichat we could just use that to get a 3 way going
23:00:35 <AnMaster> augur, you need video conference
23:00:41 <tusho> i have ichat, but you know.
23:00:44 <AnMaster> otherwise you could use a filter
23:00:45 <tusho> it's CLOSED SOURCE!!2871628112
23:00:47 <tusho> (besides that it's os x only)
23:00:56 <tusho> AnMaster: I am not doing a video conference
23:00:58 <AnMaster> augur, does it exist for 64-bit linux?
23:00:59 <augur> anmaster is lame for now using os x
23:01:00 <tusho> you are totally paranoid
23:01:24 <augur> anmaster: dunno. you could install GNUStep and maybe it'll work
23:01:26 -!- RedDak has joined.
23:01:38 <AnMaster> augur, different ABI of course
23:01:38 <tusho> does anyone else think AnMaster is mentally insane.
23:01:48 <oklopol> i think AnMaster is mentally hilarious
23:01:50 <augur> oklopol, get skype :O
23:01:56 <AnMaster> augur, Application Binary Interface
23:02:06 <augur> i wanna hear sexy finnish
23:02:45 <augur> make some day today
23:02:51 <AnMaster> oklopol, yxi kaxi kolmi (free style spelling league)
23:02:57 <AnMaster> I guess I'm totally wrong about spelling
23:03:27 <augur> while you get your little brother?
23:03:44 <oklopol> i suggest you ask him something about monads
23:03:52 <augur> BUT I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM MYSELF
23:03:55 <augur> HOW WILL I UNDERSTAND
23:04:32 <oklopol> augur: everyone knows enough to test whether the other one knows
23:04:40 <AnMaster> augur, what about lambda calculus?
23:04:47 <augur> oh yes i know about that :D
23:04:59 <augur> i know what ill do! :o
23:05:07 <augur> i cant say it here tho, he might coach his little brother
23:05:12 <augur> but i know just the thing! :D
23:05:25 <oklopol> AnMaster: you don't know lc?
23:05:37 <augur> oh man itll be brilliant having a 12 year old comment on this.
23:05:48 <tusho> i'll add you on skype augur
23:06:13 <augur> anmaster, its simple
23:06:25 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
23:06:26 <tusho> what is your skype name
23:06:26 <oklopol> AnMaster: you should, it's the most important thing in the world
23:06:27 <augur> lambda <formals>. <body>
23:06:29 <augur> thats all there is
23:06:34 <augur> im doing the recorder now
23:06:57 <tusho> ask me something about monads or something
23:07:33 <augur> i know what to ask ;D
23:11:54 <tusho> ok. recording imminent
23:13:25 <tusho> AnMaster: will you accept this as evidence
23:14:06 <tusho> i don't want to do a video chat.
23:14:20 <augur> then we're gonna have cyber video sex
23:15:25 <AnMaster> anyway I can see several flaws:
23:15:26 <oklopol> perhaps i should leave esoteric and return with another nick, and tell everyone i was 7.
23:15:33 <AnMaster> 1) tusho said he used internet back in 1998
23:15:41 <AnMaster> he would have been 4 years then
23:15:48 <tusho> I got my first computer at 3
23:15:51 <tusho> as a christmas present..
23:16:14 <tusho> i learned to program like early 2004
23:16:25 <AnMaster> tusho, and you where how old then?
23:17:00 <AnMaster> 2) You seem to have a larger "knowledge base" than an average or even unusual 12 year old would have
23:17:02 <oklopol> tusho started the same age as i then
23:17:19 <AnMaster> because I think ehird was older
23:17:20 <oklopol> except we had a comp when i was born
23:17:36 <oklopol> i was like 7 when i started programming
23:17:53 <AnMaster> oklopol, so ehird claimed he was older?
23:18:06 <oklopol> tusho: i learned to program like early 2004
23:18:23 <AnMaster> well due to these flaws I will not fully accept until I see a video conference
23:18:25 <oklopol> doesn't that make it like 7
23:18:55 <AnMaster> I will "slightly accept" it after the audio stuff
23:19:05 <tusho> augur refuses to talk about monads
23:19:23 <augur> so ignoring that tusho sounds like hes on helium
23:19:24 <AnMaster> augur, what about that lc then?
23:19:34 <tusho> augur: here, shall I quote the y combinator
23:19:36 <augur> oh its over, i think youll be convinced enough
23:19:47 <AnMaster> <augur> so ignoring that tusho sounds like hes on helium
23:20:03 <tusho> augur: i am going to call you
23:20:08 <tusho> and quote the two basic monad function's types
23:20:40 <tusho> it's still ringing
23:20:43 <tusho> but it's connected
23:20:47 <augur> i can hear you fine
23:20:53 <tusho> LET'S TRY THAT AGAIN
23:21:09 -!- Corun has joined.
23:21:29 <AnMaster> ais523, what was the name of the intercal compiler?
23:21:29 <augur> oh this was brilliant
23:21:44 <tusho> augur: post the monad types!
23:21:47 <tusho> i wanna hear the monad types
23:21:54 <ais523> but you invoke it as ick -y
23:22:17 <ais523> the debugger's stored as a .a file
23:22:21 <ais523> and compiled into your program
23:22:30 <tusho> for uploading the NOMADZ
23:22:57 <augur> aw it didnt capture my voice so noone has context
23:23:03 <augur> looks like we'll have to do this again
23:23:04 <tusho> it has two sources
23:23:07 <AnMaster> ais523, which reminds me, I had an idea of cfunge debugger over sockets
23:23:09 <tusho> and Microphone on the other
23:23:12 <AnMaster> either unix sockets or tcp ones
23:23:16 <ais523> incidentally, why don't people use ar rather than tar for packaging files?
23:23:19 <ais523> it was invented for the purpose
23:23:40 <tusho> augur: SHUT UP ABOUT SCHEME
23:23:43 <tusho> <_______________________________________<
23:23:57 <tusho> SCHEME MAKES ME KILL MYSELF
23:23:58 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:24:00 <tusho> DO YOU WANT ME TO KILL MYSELF
23:24:02 <tusho> ;__________________________________________________;
23:24:12 <oklopol> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
23:24:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
23:24:18 <tusho> oklopol: GET SKYPE
23:24:21 <tusho> you need to be there for this
23:24:44 <augur> anmaster im so sorry this was useless XD
23:24:54 <tusho> i'll quote the nomad types again.
23:24:55 <augur> i asked him about scheme and he muttered "oh god"
23:25:09 <tusho> I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH NOMADS. MONADS.
23:25:23 <augur> i asked him about web 2.0 and he muttered it again
23:25:48 <augur> oh god that was hilarious
23:25:51 <oklopol> tusho isn't that clever, he just reads wikipedia fast
23:26:19 <tusho> augur: upload the file
23:26:21 <AnMaster> is the only thing that will convince me
23:26:29 <tusho> it should be sufficiently convincing
23:26:33 <tusho> AnMaster: nomads/monads
23:26:38 <tusho> even if it's not convincing it's funny
23:26:48 <AnMaster> though I don't know what it is
23:26:51 <tusho> AnMaster: NOMADS!!!!!!!111
23:27:00 <tusho> augur: I am eagerly awaiting the mp3.
23:27:08 <augur> im trying to figure out how to save it lol
23:27:20 <AnMaster> as mp3 is a semi-closed format
23:27:25 <oklopol> nomads are quite a lot easier to understand than monads
23:27:29 <tusho> AnMaster: ... thus proof that I am older than 12!
23:27:50 <AnMaster> "Nomadic people, also known as nomads, are communities of people that move from one place to another, rather than settling down in one location. There are an estimated"
23:27:50 <oklopol> hmm, well i can't say i know much about nomads.
23:27:57 <tusho> then choose export to disk
23:28:03 <augur> oh theres a library
23:28:04 <oklopol> yeah, that was what i knew
23:28:12 <oklopol> if that is all, i'd say that is simpler than monads
23:28:36 <AnMaster> oklopol, help: # For Haskell Nomads, see Monad (functional programming).
23:29:09 <oklopol> AnMaster: if you think i'm wrong about functional programming, just assume you misunderstood my joke :P
23:29:30 <AnMaster> oklopol, I think that *I* know next to nothing about functional programming
23:29:48 <AnMaster> oklopol, I do know enough to hack a bit of elisp
23:29:57 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"").
23:29:59 <tusho> AnMaster: here comes yer EVIDENZE
23:30:09 <augur> wellnowwhat.net/transfers/Tusho%20on%20Monads.mp3
23:30:24 <AnMaster> that could have been rehearsed
23:30:33 <AnMaster> what about the lambda calculus bit?
23:30:33 <tusho> AnMaster: oh just listen to it
23:31:09 <tusho> AnMaster: listened to it?
23:31:14 <tusho> and I guess you still think it's a voice filter huh
23:31:21 <augur> it sounds too much like one, tusho :P
23:31:31 <AnMaster> doesn't convince as it doesn't check knowledge
23:31:31 <tusho> I love your assesment of my voice
23:31:53 <tusho> i tell you what AnMaster
23:31:59 <tusho> and i'll talk about it
23:32:03 <augur> no dont say it HERE
23:32:07 <augur> say it to ME in PM
23:32:10 <augur> so no coaching can occur
23:32:27 <tusho> multiple ones, AnMaster
23:32:32 <tusho> so you know it's not rehearsed
23:32:43 <augur> im beginning to hope you're not 12, tusho
23:33:13 <augur> because your personality and mannerisms in skype are almost attractive in their completely psychotic nature
23:33:55 <AnMaster> and it doesn't match tusho on irc
23:34:11 <augur> i would be terribly disappointed if i were attracted to a 12 year old
23:34:14 <augur> your cock is way too small.
23:34:49 <tusho> AnMaster: /me WAITS
23:35:08 <tusho> i am waiting AnMaster HOW LONG DO YOU WANT ME TO WAIT
23:35:23 <oklopol> i'm beginning to hope tusho is not 12 too
23:35:28 <tusho> im waiting AnMaster
23:35:37 <oklopol> elaborate lies like that are awesome
23:35:54 <oklopol> wish i was a mythomaniac or something
23:36:40 <tusho> i dont know funge AnMaster
23:36:48 <AnMaster> also I can't do voice atm due to ppl sleeping in next room, however if anyone want any proof I can do it around UTC tomorrow over asterisk
23:37:48 <tusho> i assume augur will be uploading
23:37:48 <AnMaster> anyway another odd thing: why is it that you seem so eager to convince me
23:37:56 <tusho> and because you're so eager to deny it
23:38:32 <AnMaster> tusho, it is just that most time, on irc, you act like in the range 15-25
23:38:40 <augur> http://www.wellnowwhat.net/transfers/Tusho%20doesnt%20know%20Funge%20damnit.mp3
23:38:51 <tusho> AnMaster: there you go
23:39:04 <tusho> the first thing I said was "i've got my wikipedia page ready, hah"
23:39:10 <tusho> the net connection is skippy
23:39:59 <augur> omg tusho is so funny :D
23:40:07 <oklopol> okay, after this one i have to say i'm not all that sure that's tusho :P
23:40:40 <tusho> AnMaster: is that evidence enough?
23:40:52 <AnMaster> tusho, you were reading from wikipedia I think
23:41:02 <tusho> AnMaster: find that quote on wikipedia.
23:41:05 <oklopol> that doesn't seem all that interactive
23:41:10 <tusho> and it looks like photo evidence will have to be had.
23:41:14 <tusho> i'll take a fuckin' photo
23:41:38 <augur> well now i have to find my recordy app
23:42:15 <tusho> i'll take a photo meanwhile
23:42:56 <tusho> actually i'll wait
23:43:09 <augur> guys, were gonna have to do this in 15 minutes
23:43:25 <tusho> augur: aw come on.
23:43:42 <AnMaster> well I'm going to sleep shortly
23:43:45 <tusho> oklopol: your name?
23:44:51 <tusho> just a sec, need to prepare my little brother
23:44:54 <tusho> tell him what to say, etc.
23:45:13 <tusho> i can hear you typing.
23:45:16 <oklopol> tell him to say "hi oklo i like scheme"
23:46:02 <tusho> i make everyone laugh
23:46:17 <oklopol> i don't even know where the microphone is here
23:46:32 <tusho> augur: i am dictating everything people say in here!
23:46:44 <oklopol> tusho: is that actually you tyuping
23:46:52 <tusho> no jkersjkesjkjoopkopklklml
23:47:01 <augur> oklopol are you on skype?
23:47:05 <tusho> dfx ,.fjvail;djtlsdfgjdslkgjklsdjgsdlfjg ldsgjas;ldgjklsdfghklsdhrpaeishtweiohtdfogiuhsdfighsitvhjoi[cf jeiosqwjiofherioarhtiudutypitsrotpjkrjneilrjnflksdthwijftiupow4nrtfiojrtw
23:47:21 <tusho> i just wrote an os in oklotalk
23:47:24 <oklopol> gotta say i'm not entirely sure what to think about tusho now. i never really doubted he was 12 before this :P
23:47:35 <augur> oklopol, are you getting video?
23:47:41 <oklopol> that's actually like 7 different tokens
23:47:49 <oklopol> augur: he's making some noise
23:47:55 <tusho> i was whimpering because YOU DOUBTED ME
23:48:15 <tusho> i don't talk either
23:48:20 <tusho> as you can see ,I only say unintelligable things
23:48:33 <tusho> grauh nuer glayi beurn
23:49:08 <tusho> AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
23:49:15 <tusho> my voice filter broke
23:49:40 <tusho> lilja: I CAN HEAR YOU
23:49:49 <tusho> that was really a typo
23:50:07 <oklopol> tusho: that's just my voice filter.
23:50:09 <tusho> your keyboard is loud
23:50:23 <oklopol> i could say the same thing about yours
23:51:09 <oklopol> tusho: so, you live with your pants?
23:51:22 <tusho> i don't live with my pants. i don't have pants
23:51:24 <tusho> i am a poor orphan
23:51:38 <oklopol> well i was just wondering, are trey like deaf?
23:51:52 <tusho> they're DEAD you insensitive clod
23:51:55 <tusho> I just told you I'm an ORPHAN
23:52:14 <oklopol> well you're a funny orphan, then, but sorry for your loss
23:52:23 <tusho> yeah i'm the funniest orphan ever
23:52:47 <tusho> dfgkljkljdgrjklfgjknefvkl;tkl;rtkjlvciodfl;56l;,copt5
23:52:48 <oklopol> you'reso funny you could prolly get your parents to laugh by telling a joke about the accident they died in
23:52:56 <tusho> that hurts my brain
23:53:15 <oklopol> i hope you're not actually an orphan, or i might be conceived as mean :)
23:53:23 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving").
23:53:36 <tusho> shall I read out lines in #haskell
23:54:12 <tusho> one wacky style per line!
23:54:15 <tusho> that's what you get with my irc reading service
23:55:13 <tusho> lilja: it sounds like you're talking in english played back
23:55:24 <tusho> FINNISH: English, backawrds.
23:55:48 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:55:49 <tusho> you're just talking nonsense now to fuck with me
23:56:21 <tusho> have a video of my empty chair
23:56:53 <oklopol> tusho: can you tell us a story?
23:57:06 <oklopol> but not the same as before
23:57:08 <augur> oklopol, are you on skype
23:57:13 <tusho> let's have a group chat!
23:57:34 <tusho> augur: you'd better record this
23:57:53 <tusho> do you want to record video of
23:57:54 <oklopol> people... i will not talk :P
23:58:25 <oklopol> well a silent chat like this is fine by me+
23:58:34 <tusho> oh my god i'm BLACK
23:58:57 <tusho> I AM GIVING YOU INSTRUCTIONS
23:59:19 <augur> thats how i say it
23:59:20 <tusho> I THOUGHT IT WAS PRONOUNCED:
23:59:51 <tusho> this is ridiculously ridiculous