00:10:52 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: should i do (list, rest)?
00:11:17 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: i am not sure
00:11:31 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: By the same notion, music notation notates notes, but not music.
00:14:06 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ^bf +++++++++++[->+++>++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++<<<<<]>>+.>>+.--.+++.+++++.-.<++.>--.<<<-.>>>+.<----.>>.<.<<<.>>>-----.+.
00:14:26 <lament> ohh, i remember that discussion
00:14:42 <lament> i was saying some complete bullshit
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00:20:42 <oklokok> i remember it too, although i don't remember what it was abou
00:21:36 <jix> (S~:)(!~:):(e)~^(y)~^( )~^(o)~^(l)~^(u)~^(l)~^( )~^(e)~^(l)~^(l)~^(o)~^( )~^(s)~^(a)~^(t)~^(a)~^( )~^(i)~^(t)~^( )~^(h)~^(e)~^(e)~^(l)~^( )~^(e)~^(g)~^(l)~^(a)~^( )~^(m)~^(e)~^(e)~^(t)~^(!)~^
00:23:46 <oerjan> ^ul (S~:)(!~:):(e)~^(y)~^( )~^(o)~^(l)~^(u)~^(l)~^( )~^(e)~^(l)~^(l)~^(o)~^( )~^(s)~^(a)~^(t)~^(a)~^( )~^(i)~^(t)~^( )~^(h)~^(e)~^(e)~^(l)~^( )~^(e)~^(g)~^(l)~^(a)~^( )~^(m)~^(e)~^(e)~^(t)~^(!)~^
00:41:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I don't know if I am.
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06:41:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | um.
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09:32:10 <Mony> you ! ploping to me ?
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09:57:39 <Mony> ^ul (Plop !))S
09:58:41 <oerjan> In other news, the UN declares a moratorium on plops
09:59:03 <oerjan> after several gruesome incidents
10:02:51 <fizzie> ^bf ++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++><<<<-]>[.>--.+++.+.>++.+.-.--<--<]
10:02:52 <fungot> Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ! Plop ...
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10:45:11 <Mony> ^ul (optbot, )S
10:45:12 <optbot> Mony: I think ihope is stalking me.
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10:58:53 <fizzie> optbot: How do you stalk a bot?
10:58:53 <optbot> fizzie: that can be done simpler
10:59:28 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:29 <optbot> Mony: i mean, put chars there
10:59:31 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:32 <optbot> Mony: I've done it already
10:59:34 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:34 <optbot> Mony: guess does it work the way i saw..?
10:59:36 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:38 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:39 <optbot> Mony: well - it's also not what i'm aiming for
10:59:40 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:42 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:43 <optbot> Mony: I learned the fundamentals of programming through ``RPG Maker 95'', heh.
10:59:45 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:47 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:48 <optbot> Mony: yeah.. I went through it one day and write down which functions seemed to make sense and which ones didn't
10:59:50 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
10:59:50 <fizzie> Isn't that sort-of enough?
10:59:51 <optbot> Mony: (see http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Recentchanges )
11:00:03 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
11:00:04 <optbot> Mony: out of interest, mostly
11:00:06 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
11:00:08 <Mony> optbot, optbot optbot
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11:35:53 <fizzie> ^ul (^^^~^~^~^~^*****()()()())((o))((p))((t))((b))((t))((o))(a~^aa*~^aa*^*a~:^):^!!S
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12:22:31 <Hiato> Mony, how much do you know about Unlambda
12:22:47 <Mony> i know it's a esolang
12:23:33 <Hiato> Heh, well, see if you can't answer this one: If the expression interpretation is unary, then how does one force compound arguments?
12:24:30 <Hiato> Ok, cool, no worries
12:24:43 <Hiato> let's try wake up ais523
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12:37:55 <Hiato> ais523, AnMaster, oklopol, ehird - anyone who knows Unlambda
12:38:53 <AnMaster> but I'm *far* from an expert on it
12:39:10 <Hiato> Well perhaps you might be able to explain this to me: If the expression interpretation is unary, then how does one force compound arguments?
12:39:20 <Hiato> And no worries, I'm a total beginner anywho
12:39:41 <Hiato> (for clarification: if, say, "F" takes two arguments, x and y, then how do you force "F" to take a compound argument (say, (ab) as x) if the interpretor merely goes one character at a time and looks for the next character. IE: You want to write F(ab)c so that x=ab and y=c but without the brackets)
12:40:48 <AnMaster> um, that went over my head. I would say I'm even further from expert than you are ;P
12:40:58 <AnMaster> befunge however I could help with
12:41:25 <Hiato> Heh, now worries :P Thanks though
12:41:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Heheh.
12:41:34 <optbot> AnMaster: AnMaster can't bear people saying things
12:41:45 <optbot> AnMaster: because of the slashdot thing
12:41:58 <Hiato> Listen here, optbot
12:41:58 <optbot> Hiato: as i see it, the monad is found from the first object in the >>= chain which is not return _
12:41:59 <AnMaster> optbot, heh I don't even read slashdot
12:42:00 <optbot> AnMaster: use /dev/stdout for clearness then
12:42:10 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | :P.
12:42:13 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hi.
12:42:16 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | We cut out the middle man..
12:42:44 <Hiato> From earlier (fizzie did this)
12:42:45 <Hiato> ^ul (^^^~^~^~^~^*****()()()())((o))((p))((t))((b))((t))((o))(a~^aa*~^aa*^*a~:^):^!!S
12:42:46 <optbot> fungot: (Also a perfect opportunity to subtly "doink" jsmips :P )
12:43:15 <AnMaster> Hiato, now that could be simplified a lot
12:43:27 <Hiato> I don't even know what language that is :P
12:43:31 <Hiato> Care to elaborate?
12:43:38 <optbot> fungot: The variable "msg" in my bot is first assigned to the actually message part of every PRIVMSG.... but later down in the program it becomes the variable that tells the bot what to send to a channel.
12:43:40 <Hiato> (looks interesting enough)
12:44:06 <AnMaster> which I know slightly more than unlambda
12:44:08 <Hiato> heard of it, but that's where it ends
12:44:31 <AnMaster> Hiato, it have certain similarities with unlambda
12:44:48 <jix> but it doesn't support input :/
12:45:09 <Hiato> Hrmm, perhaps I'll take a look at that
12:45:55 * jix is thinking of what has to be done to support usable input and output
12:47:04 <AnMaster> if you don't want unmatched () in it
12:47:30 <jix> yeah that's the first problem.. and you can't output a character that wasn't included in sourcecode
12:48:37 <jix> hmm one could add an instruction that decreases all characters that are in the top of stack by one
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12:49:06 <jix> and now for input there must be some way to kind of compare input or something
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12:49:48 <jix> hmm drop the current top of stack... compare the two items below it... and if they are equal execute the just dropped item
12:49:57 <jix> and one instruction to input a single byte
12:50:07 <jix> ... any comments on that?
12:51:09 <jix> i tried to make them a not too complex and b not too easy to use
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14:07:14 <jix> +ul (hello)a(world)a~!^S
14:07:49 * jix is working on the size optimizer of my compiler
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15:42:11 <jix> ^ul (test)((LLL )( JJJ))~a*^~**S
15:42:22 <jix> ((LLL )( JJJ))~a*^~**S << this is compiled with my compiler
15:42:46 <jix> the code: "LLL " " JJJ" rot3 swap concat concat print
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15:51:47 <jix> now i'm going to add number input and to extend the "stdlib"
15:52:11 <jix> and maybe i'm going to add "template functions" like rotN where you can write rot10 and it will automatically generate code to get the 10th element on top
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16:12:44 <AnMaster> <jix> yeah that's the first problem.. and you can't output a character that wasn't included in sourcecode
16:12:44 <AnMaster> <jix> hmm one could add an instruction that decreases all characters that are in the top of stack by one
16:12:50 <ehird> jix: BTW, You can have underload without ()
16:12:53 <ehird> and still have it tc
16:12:58 <ehird> ais523 proved it after I got the idea
16:13:02 <ehird> you have one new command
16:13:11 <ehird> and what it does is
16:13:17 <ehird> Xd where X is any one command
16:13:19 <ehird> is the same as X(X)
16:13:21 <AnMaster> ehird, isn't underload already tc?
16:13:34 <ehird> it's actually tc, believe it or not
16:13:47 <ehird> you can compile underload into deiunderload
16:14:02 <ehird> jix: it requires () to be pushed on the stack at the start of the program
16:14:16 <ehird> also output gets messed up
16:14:19 <ehird> but you dont need that
16:14:50 <jix> but i want a language that is fun to program in...
16:14:55 <jix> not fun as in easy
16:15:14 <jix> but as in... fun :/
16:15:37 <AnMaster> jix, well got an example of some language you think is fun, or it is hard to know what you think is fun
16:16:19 <jix> and i think that removing () from underload takes a lot of the fun
16:16:33 <jix> it's difficuilt to describe
16:16:43 <AnMaster> jix, what do you think of INTERCAL?
16:16:59 <jix> AnMaster: never really tried it...
16:17:33 <jix> befunge fun... trefunge... i don't think so...
16:18:07 <AnMaster> jix, I can see what properties befunge, brainfuck and underload share ;P
16:19:00 <AnMaster> jix, personally I think bf is boring, befunge fun, underload quite fun. Intercal fun too
16:19:01 <ehird> jix: befunge is pretty fun
16:19:06 <ehird> in the easy but challenging sense
16:19:54 <jix> for example ul without () i think you'd lose the ability to work on single parts of the program without affecting everything else
16:19:57 <AnMaster> language with nothing but first class expctions
16:20:02 <jix> trefunge is just too cumbersome to edit
16:20:07 <AnMaster> that is, no other data type than exceptions
16:20:22 <AnMaster> no clue how, but sounds like a fun idea
16:20:32 <jix> i think i heard that some time ago...
16:20:35 <jix> @ the wiki maybe
16:20:43 <AnMaster> jix, hm remember any name of it?
16:21:07 <ehird> jix: befunge is pretty easy to edit
16:21:10 <ehird> but you haev to plan for it
16:21:15 <ehird> i get what you mean, though
16:21:19 <ehird> underload is probably the best language for that
16:21:20 <jix> ehird: trefunge....
16:21:23 <ehird> it's one of the best langs
16:21:27 <jix> ehird: befunge is easy...
16:21:38 <jix> trefunge is hard
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16:22:29 <jix> because you can't really see the current context
16:23:15 <AnMaster> hm... http://esolangs.org/wiki/Catch
16:24:16 <AnMaster> you got other control flow too
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16:43:55 <Hiato> \me counts the lives ones
16:44:06 * Hiato counts the live ones
16:51:18 <AnMaster> um http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wire-crossing_problem got an issue I think.
16:51:26 <AnMaster> this "strong claim" mentioned.
16:51:44 <AnMaster> I may have misunderstood that page, but...
16:53:06 <SimonRC> Is ther a question in all that?
16:53:19 <AnMaster> well I found that my idea was wrong
16:53:30 <AnMaster> before I had time to fully write it in my irc client
16:54:33 <AnMaster> in fact I noted that you can avoid # or such in befunge, and whitespace, and yet cross wires
16:54:53 <SimonRC> indeed; you make roundabouts
16:55:13 <AnMaster> you just reverse the operation
16:55:19 <SimonRC> or yeah, you could do that too
16:55:56 <AnMaster> but yes it kind of needs either self modification or state outside the current cell
16:56:01 <SimonRC> but you can still cross wires even if ea each instruction can only be exited in one way (or two for choice instructions)
16:56:22 <SimonRC> i.e. each instruction has an implicit exit direction
16:56:43 <AnMaster> well, since funge space wraps I guess so
16:56:44 <SimonRC> yeah, you just make roundabouts
16:57:01 <SimonRC> no, not all wire-crossing can be solved by being on a torous
16:57:26 <AnMaster> SimonRC, well easy still since choice have two exits
16:57:53 <SimonRC> and you can use choices to make a structure that acts like two wires crossing
16:58:13 <AnMaster> you just join another wire just before the choice and each one pushes different numbers resulting in a "road sign"
16:58:51 <AnMaster> SimonRC, also you could trivially self modify in befunge to change the instruction ahead
16:58:55 * Hiato doesn't really want to distract SimonRC from his conversation, so is attempting to conjure up a way to learn of whether SimonRC knows his Unlambda well enough to answer a simple[is] question
16:59:19 <AnMaster> odd, several persons asked about unlambda today
16:59:30 <AnMaster> why is it suddenly so popular?
16:59:54 <Hiato> Yay :) well, then, perhaps you may be able to answer the following: If the expression interpretation is unary, then how does one force compound arguments?
17:00:17 <Hiato> (heh, naah, it's all just me - I've been bugged by this)
17:00:35 <Hiato> if, say, "F" takes two arguments, x and y, then how do you force "F" to take a compound argument (say, (ab) as x) if the interpretor merely goes one character at a time and looks for the next character. IE: You want to write F(ab)c so that x=ab and y=c but without the brackets
17:01:09 <Hiato> (And for AnMaster's sake, yes, that is a direct copy 'n paste of what I asked you earlier :P)
17:01:25 <AnMaster> Hiato, ah it was you last time too
17:02:09 <Hiato> Hrmm, is that equivalent to (F((ab)c))?
17:02:28 <Hiato> as in, ab is one argument (compound), c is the second
17:03:09 <SimonRC> I think you are getting confused here
17:03:28 <Hiato> The combinator S takes three arguments, not so?
17:04:06 <SimonRC> juxtaposition is the function application operator in the brackety syntax; brackets are for grouping, and are not an operator
17:04:15 <Hiato> So, say you wanted to do S(BL)(AH)(KP), where B,L,A,H,K,P are all combinators too
17:04:45 <jix> ```s`BL`AH`KP afaik
17:05:34 <Hiato> But, then, does that not also do B(L), A(H) and K(P) prior to S of their results?
17:05:55 <SimonRC> Hiato: um, that is an odd way to write them, but yes
17:06:08 <Hiato> Something tells me I am just confusing logical combinators with string rewriting in my head
17:06:11 <SimonRC> one ould usually just say BL, AH, and KP
17:06:38 <Hiato> Well, thank you for that, I think my problem is solved :)
17:06:42 <SimonRC> combinators can be done by string re-writing
17:07:14 <Hiato> Hrmm, ok, yes - yes, they can - hoorah! It all makes sense to me now XD
17:07:37 <Hiato> Then, SimonRC, do you mind giving your opinion on my new esolang?
17:12:27 <Hiato> Oh, I understood an amount of reluctantcy there, in that case: The whole system is based on what I now correctly identify as functional string re-writing
17:12:52 <AnMaster> trivially non-tc I guess unless you can make some other way to control the program
17:13:04 <Hiato> There can be 256 functions (practically, far fewer)
17:13:33 <Hiato> each of which then takes arguments, and prints a new string
17:13:40 <Hiato> (nope, I'm sure it's TC)
17:13:49 <Hiato> originally (at the start of the programme)
17:13:56 <Hiato> there is only one function: g
17:14:01 <AnMaster> Hiato, are you talking about the same thing as me?
17:14:18 <Hiato> (my esolang, or ZISC?)
17:14:28 <AnMaster> there is no ZISC, it was just an idea I got
17:14:59 <AnMaster> the logical thing would be to take that one step further
17:15:27 <Hiato> meaning, it takes the argument x, declares it as a function, which takes the argument why and returns z
17:15:30 <Hiato> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Instruction_Set_Computer)
17:15:56 <AnMaster> bah, I hoped for some nice esolang
17:16:24 <Hiato> nvm, lemme type out the spec
17:16:39 <Hiato> sorry about that SimonRC
17:18:18 <AnMaster> fizzie, question: does jitfunge handle x?
17:20:45 <AnMaster> fizzie, if yes, what happens when you run 00x
17:42:25 <jix> A bar walks into a commutative algebraist.
17:45:46 <Hiato> for those not already bored to death by me: http://rafb.net/p/kihs9G28.html
17:45:51 <Hiato> (and brb, supper time)
17:46:03 <Hiato> [it is the spec I was trying to communicate]
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18:03:19 <SimonRC> jayCampbell: that's what they all say
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19:07:29 <fizzie> Was x the set-delta one?
19:08:47 <fizzie> If the 'x' arguments can be constant-folded, I do 'x' simply by setting the delta used when tracing what instructions to compile. In other cases I end the compiled block and set the "type" of the block to be 'SETDELTA', which will be handled correctly.
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19:09:03 <fizzie> Although 00x doesn't get any special treatment and therefore will probably do rather silly things.
19:09:05 <Hiato> Yay, the programme works :D
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19:09:52 <fizzie> I guess there's no officially sanctioned special semantics for 00x.
19:16:09 <SimonRC> how on earth does one compile Befunge?
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19:19:26 <ehird> Hiato: /whois knows all
19:19:52 * SimonRC doesn't know anything about jitting
19:19:59 * Hiato curses these new fangled IPv6 services
19:20:14 <ehird> SimonRC: you compile it into memory
19:20:16 <ehird> and run it directly
19:20:24 <ehird> and if something changes, you modify the code in memory.
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19:23:07 <SimonRC> Oh, of course. It is like Forth.
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19:33:12 <fizzie> Yes; in my case, if something changes, you just discard the function it's in and recompile it the next time it's encountered.
19:34:27 <fizzie> ("function" here meaning I JIT-compile things into callable functions; of course there's no functions in the Befunge code.)
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19:49:14 <Hiato> You'll see soon, just have to coax python into somehow refreshing/sleeping during a lop
19:49:20 <SimonRC> fizzie: I think that functions might have been a better use of the [ and ] characters
19:50:04 <SimonRC> they would push some location data on the stack and turn left/right
19:50:33 <SimonRC> the stack stack could handle the rest of the function-call work
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19:53:38 <Hiato> Thank you oklokok's untimely disconnect
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19:58:14 <Hiato> For god's sakes, why can't it find stuff in a list
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19:59:11 <Hiato> well, sorry for all the spamming
19:59:16 <Hiato> I'll find a blank channel now
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19:59:37 <fizzie> I for one am not offended, but I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
20:00:04 <Hiato> heh :P I don't suppose you know socket programming in python?
20:00:18 <Hiato> or a blank channel?
20:00:18 <fizzie> Well, I've done a bit of it.
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20:00:56 <Hiato> hrmm, could you tell me what's wrong with this then? s.send('PRIVMSG #' + CHANNELINIT + ' :'+TEXT)
20:00:57 <fizzie> I did one silly "do a routing protocol client with the sockets API" course-project in Python because I didn't feel like C that day.
20:01:03 <Hiato> where s is the socket
20:01:49 <fizzie> Maybe your TEXT doesn't have \r\n after it?
20:01:55 <fizzie> But that's just a guess.
20:01:58 <Hiato> you are a genious! That's what's wrong with it, it's missing the 1013 line feed
20:02:06 <Hiato> yep, you're dead right :D
20:02:19 <fizzie> Additionally I'd write it as "PRIVMSG #%s :%s\r\n" % (CHANNELINIT, TEXT), but that's just me.
20:02:42 <Hiato> heh, yeah, I'm still a newb, but, I'll put it in, to look all fancy :P
20:03:16 <fizzie> Thanks to some Python tutorial or other, I've done almost all my string-building with the "%" formatting-thing instead of concatenating strings.
20:03:48 <Hiato> Hrmm, yeah, it seems to C-esque for me to really like
20:04:08 <fizzie> "foo" + bar + "baz" seems too Java-esque for me, on the other hand. :p
20:05:05 <Hiato> Yeah, I see. Though, regret ably, I do come from a Delphi background where there is no real alternative
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20:05:56 <Hiato> Hrmm, that means that there's something wrong with the format of the data
20:06:43 <ehird> Hiato: the point of % formatting is that you can do all kinds of nice stuff
20:06:47 <ehird> and it also lets you look at the string as a template
20:06:51 <ehird> to see what it's going to be like at a glance
20:07:00 <Hiato> thanks, lol, and ok
20:07:21 -!- WorkDamnIt has joined.
20:07:25 <WorkDamnIt> From each according to his ability, to each accotrding to his need
20:07:32 -!- AnotherTestBot9 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
20:07:38 <Hiato> with a typo and all
20:07:48 <Hiato> fizzie, can I get a second on that?
20:08:23 -!- AnotherTestBot5 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:08:44 <fizzie> ^bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>+++<<<-]>.>++..++++++++++.<-.+++++++.>>.
20:08:57 <WorkDamnIt> From each according to his ability, to each accotrding to his need
20:09:13 <Hiato> I'm so chuffed, now to put together some actually useful code. Any suggestions?
20:09:52 <SimonRC> Hiato: groucho marx quotes?
20:10:36 <SimonRC> identifying itself to a nickserv
20:10:39 <Hiato> I like that, is there some big o list of them I can rip off? OOh, I know, why not quotes from portal :P
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20:10:48 <Hiato> hrmm, yeah, about those
20:11:04 <Hiato> Well, I'll try, it's been a pain trying to dig out the protocol (text) for IRC
20:11:10 <SimonRC> random nethack death messges?
20:11:20 <SimonRC> Hiato: hav you read the RFCs?
20:11:22 <fizzie> Huh, the RFC is quite enough for simple bot use.
20:11:29 <fizzie> And not very difficult to find.
20:11:39 <SimonRC> nethack.alt.org maintains a list of every death message
20:11:40 <Hiato> and what might they be?
20:12:01 <fizzie> http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/index.html has 'em, for example.
20:12:33 <SimonRC> RFCs are the things that define all the major protocols of the internet
20:12:56 * Hiato attempts to read faster
20:13:30 <fizzie> I'm not sure IRC ranks above, say, TCP. :p (I'm assuming that list was sorted according to priority.)
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20:24:27 <WorkDamnIt> Do you think I'm trying to trick you with reverse psychology? Seriously now...
20:24:32 <WorkDamnIt> Due to a required test protocol, we will not monitor the next chamber, you will be entirely on your own. Good Luck
20:26:05 <WorkDamnIt> Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... ''[crackling static]''
20:26:26 <Hiato> Now that, my friend, is where you're wrong ;)
20:27:02 <fizzie> I'm not sure you can unilaterally declare people as friends.
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20:27:21 <fizzie> fungot: Do you have some good quotes?
20:27:22 <fungot> fizzie: also, given the fnord fnord perhaps there's some confusion with his character also in the german tradition and a definition of the ' ' fnord'"
20:28:07 <Hiato> For about twenty odd minutes of quotes, I'm not too sad
20:28:24 <Hiato> And to quote a phrase
20:28:31 <WorkDamnIt> ''[Soon after previous quote]'' ''Stop!'' Okay, enough, I deleted it. No matter what happens now, you're ''dead.'' You're still shuffling around a little but believe me, ''you're dead.''
20:28:59 <Hiato> Anyway, it's been fun lads
20:29:03 <Hiato> but I have an exam tomorrow
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20:30:32 <ehird> who is me in the context of Doitle2
20:31:05 <fizzie> I never know how to answer that question when asked.
20:31:43 <Doitle2> Doitle2 is an Electrical Engineering undergrad from Illinois who has been learning and writing simple stuff in BF after coming accross it on Wikipedia. He was then instructed by #bf to come here instead.
20:32:02 <fizzie> What's #bf about, then?
20:32:05 <ehird> oh, you talk about yourself in the third person
20:32:08 <ehird> sorry. we can't be friends
20:32:13 <ehird> fizzie: gregorr's ##brainfuck i guess
20:32:19 <Doitle2> He asked the question in such a manner. I don't normally talk in the third person.
20:33:09 <Doitle2> Yes you, rather. I didn't see that it was you both times.
20:33:59 <fizzie> There's a ##brainfuck, too? Huh, I must've not been paying attention.
20:34:12 <ehird> Nobody talks there.
20:34:25 <ehird> it just tells you to go to #esoteric
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20:56:24 -!- a has changed nick to jix.
20:56:40 <fizzie> (As the message in this client is: "jix is now known as a".)
20:57:06 <jix> just wanted to test a bot that swaps the first two letters of nicks in status msgs to avoid highlights
20:58:16 <jix> if you write nick++ the user gains karma if you write nick-- it loses
20:59:33 <fizzie> Optimally that sort of thing should support also "++nick" and "--nick", with the difference being whether the status message reports karma before or after the change.
21:00:34 <jix> you have to write a command for the statistics
21:00:43 <jix> it doesn't report it after you issue the ++ or -- command
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21:14:43 <oklokok> 19:12… AnMaster: Zero Instruction Set Computer <<< genius
21:22:48 -!- oklopol has joined.
21:23:24 <oklopol> negative one instruction set computer
21:23:47 <oklopol> i wish there negative amounts made sense for discrete objects
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21:24:12 <oklopol> jix: damn you, i was thinking of making a lang compile to underload too.
21:24:18 <oklopol> although a bit higher level
21:24:42 <oklopol> more like C = 7; A = 5 * C; print A * "x";
21:24:51 <jix> oklopol: i wanted to keep it compatible with the stack concept
21:25:06 <jix> i thought of implementing an even higher level language on top of my stack language
21:25:15 <jix> which should be a lot easier than doing it directly
21:25:53 <oklopol> obviously a good way to do it "directly" is just never to publish the stack language but make it first anyway.
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21:27:12 <oklopol> i mainly wanted to get something like registers there, did stack-based->bf once, it's quite fun compiling between stack and registers
21:27:13 <jix> i'm programming in a scripting language
21:27:14 -!- cherez has left (?).
21:27:27 <jix> so hiding it will be hard
21:27:32 <oklopol> i program in python almost exclusively
21:27:44 <oklopol> umm. that's not exactly what i meant
21:28:07 <jix> well then i didn't get what you mean
21:28:08 <oklopol> i just meant you just don't make a big whoop about the stack language, it's just an intermediate thingie.
21:28:40 <jix> well i think i'd prefer to program in it over a more high level language
21:28:46 <oklopol> but yeah of course it's better to extend underload with some kinda procedures first, it's just i consider that trivial
21:29:12 <jix> yeah basically it really just is a preprocessor
21:29:14 <fizzie> I sort of do a "stack-language to registery machine" thing with jitfunge, given that the input is Befunge and the output is x86 code.
21:29:17 <jix> and i should call it like that
21:29:43 <oklopol> fizzie: yeah, except this is the other way
21:29:51 <oklopol> but i think it's fundamentally pretty similar a problem.
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21:30:33 <fizzie> Of course I also still have a stack, so it's pretty trivial; and in fact I could just opt to not use the registers much.
21:30:35 <oklopol> hi Corun_ we were just talking about you
21:31:03 <oklopol> i sometimes forget The Stack is a stack.
21:31:53 <oklopol> hmm, i bet the topic is my sayings.
21:32:32 <fizzie> oklopol: Yes, from July this year.
21:33:02 <fizzie> Related to psygnisfive's "in the music video theres this boy thats hot / who really needs to sit on my cock".
21:33:22 <SimonRC> fizzie: english needs a better word than "on" there
21:33:37 <SimonRC> something with a meaning like "around"
21:33:55 <fizzie> "Have you been sitting around cocks here?"
21:34:06 <SimonRC> or maybe like "into", except the active and static roles are reversed
21:34:19 <ehird> fizzie: "in the music video theres this boy thats hot / who really needs to sit on my cock" <- that is some rhyming there
21:34:31 <SimonRC> that is, one thing remains still, while another one surrounds it
21:34:38 <Corun_> I was just talking about you
21:34:52 <fizzie> I don't think we have a separate word case for that in Finnish either.
21:35:06 <fizzie> (We've got 15 of them for nouns.)
21:35:46 <SimonRC> it is a rare thing to happen though
21:37:16 <fizzie> psygnisfive: 2008-07-21
21:37:55 <fizzie> There's talk about "Scatman" right before.
21:40:08 <oklopol> hmm. i think i'm really fundamentally too lazy to be a programmer; i simply cannot get myself to open a file containing some parsing code, and i don't feel like writing it because i have it in a file already.
21:40:18 <oklopol> i wonder what i'm not too lazy for.
21:40:26 <jix> i lost the game
21:40:31 <jix> because i read "The Stack"
21:41:37 <oerjan> the one that makes jix lose
21:42:00 <oklopol> that's a pretty standard way to ask someone to... elaborate
21:42:16 <oerjan> the latter is only a theory
21:42:28 <SimonRC> OTOH, I have been known to use "detail" as a verb
21:42:34 <fizzie> oklopol: Again in Finnish we'd have had a separate verb mood (imperative) for making a command like that.
21:42:57 <SimonRC> fizzie: IMD they are distinguished by emphasis pattern
21:43:10 <oklopol> fizzie: true; we should really move to finnish and hope it catches on.
21:43:32 <SimonRC> oerjan: a stack is only a theory?
21:43:49 <oklopol> of course, the finnish version "kerro lisää" is sarcastic and means "shut up, i don't give a shit".
21:44:27 <oerjan> SimonRC: jix loses The Game when reading things of the form The Word. sheesh.
21:44:46 <fizzie> Yes, it's often followed with "kiveäkin kiinnostaa" - "even the stone is interested".
21:44:49 <SimonRC> that pattern of capitalisation
21:44:55 <fizzie> (Actually is that "kiviä" or "kiveä"? I'm not quite sure.)
21:45:15 * SimonRC wishes English had cool sarcasm like that
21:45:28 <oklopol> that sounds pretty funny in english
21:45:37 <oklopol> perhaps i should start using it
21:45:40 <fizzie> I've heard it quite often in the form "runkoreititintäkin kiinnostaa" ("even the core network router is interested") so I couldn't remember the pluarlismity of the standard version.
21:45:47 <oerjan> SimonRC: I _could_ care less
21:46:21 <fizzie> Do "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" have basically the same meaning, or are there differences?
21:46:27 <oklopol> fizzie: yeah i've heard that too, and many others
21:46:44 <oklopol> "i could care less" isn't exactly used, is it?
21:46:49 <SimonRC> OTOH, I think one of my more deadpan freinds has stated his lack of interest by claiming inanimate to be interested
21:47:08 <oerjan> fizzie: I could care less is sarcastic, iiuc
21:47:12 <ehird> I didn't lose the game because of my preventative measure.
21:47:20 <oerjan> so same eventual meaning
21:47:24 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. S, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi.").
21:48:33 <fizzie> Oh, Google found a handy chart for it: http://incompetech.com/gallimaufry/care_less.html
21:48:47 <ehird> 12:39:37 <ehird> Here are the new rules to Not the Game:
21:48:47 <ehird> 12:39:38 <ehird> {
21:48:47 <ehird> 12:39:38 <ehird> 1. You can start playing or stop playing Not the Game by announcing you do.
21:48:48 <ehird> 12:39:38 <ehird> 2. If you are playing Not the Game, you are not playing The Game.
21:48:48 <ehird> 12:39:38 <ehird> 3. Not the Game takes precedence over every other game, including games (apart
21:48:48 <ehird> 12:39:39 <ehird> from Not the Game) that specify other rules of precedence.
21:48:51 <ehird> 12:39:40 <ehird> }
21:48:53 <ehird> 12:39:42 <ehird> I start playing Not the Game.
21:48:57 <ehird> Who else wants to start playing Not the Game?
21:49:01 <ehird> Free yourself from the Game!
21:50:03 <fizzie> I don't feel especially constrained about the Game even without playing Not the Game.
21:50:19 <oklopol> seeing "could care less" actually in use, i've definitely seen that in use before.
21:50:50 <ehird> fizzie: But it lets you believe in the reaching-out silliness of games exceeding their boundaries, while not bothering with the boringness of the Game!
21:51:27 <oklopol> i don't believe in believing in that.
21:51:37 <fizzie> Mwahah, the Wikipedia article is written in the canonical Wikipedia style.
21:51:39 <fizzie> "The Game has been called pointless and has been known to infuriate some people."
21:52:43 <ehird> SOME PEOPLE say that joe is gay
21:53:08 <oerjan> fizzie: is there a weasel word tag?
21:53:32 <ehird> in the time it takes to put a tag there they could remove the sentence
21:55:07 <fizzie> Unfortunately no. Maybe there should be.
21:55:21 <oerjan> hm the sentence is actually referenced
21:55:43 <ehird> Some people say that joe is gay.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
21:55:56 <fizzie> There is a section (titled "Weasel words if I ever saw them") referring to that part on the discussion page, but nothing seems to have happened re it.
21:56:57 <fizzie> fungot: Given that you're loaded with 20 megabytes of Wikipedia talk, how does that make you feel?
21:56:57 <fungot> fizzie: this is a global encyclopedia. bob dylan in europe was on cbs records, not columbia records in the 1960s, spread the legend that johnson had sold his soul to the devil in exchange for them eliminating the enfield 8000 article provides ' ' '
21:57:45 <fizzie> I didn't know there were any legends about people selling their souls in exchange for the elimination of Wikipedia articles.
21:58:09 <oerjan> especially made by bob dylan in the 1960s
21:58:25 <oerjan> that man is a true visionary indeed
22:00:24 <fizzie> There also seem to be nine nominations-for-deletion already; with "unknown2 result", "keep", "delete", "keep deleted", "no consensus", "restore", "no consensus", "delete" and "allow recreation". The System, it works.
22:02:09 <oerjan> sure, but sooner or later you lose The System
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22:56:44 <SimonRC> YEOUCH! http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/08/1720246
22:57:37 <oerjan> i think it was on reddit yesterday
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23:46:08 * SimonRC goes to bed. (Quote of the day: "OH, GOD SHIT JESUS." // "A peculiar form of Theogenesis.")
23:48:03 <oerjan> there's got to be _some_ mythology that did that already.
23:50:04 <ehird> match the first one of these chars : . ,
23:50:07 <ehird> outside of () and []
23:50:12 <ehird> so foo(bar,quux)baz.
23:50:23 <ehird> but foo,bar.baz gets the ,
23:51:17 <oerjan> pretty obviously requires something advanced enough to do parenthesis matching
23:51:42 <oerjan> assuming you allow nested parens
23:51:43 <ehird> there's no nested parens
23:52:21 <oerjan> ok then it should be possible
23:53:16 <ehird> ah, wait, think i've cracked it
23:56:41 <oerjan> ([^.,]|[(][^)]*[)]|[[][^]]*[]])* should be the part before it
23:57:54 <oerjan> ([^][().,]|[(][^)]*[)]|[[][^]]*[]])*
23:59:28 <oerjan> iirc ] must be first (possibly after ^) in a [...]