00:00:15 <oerjan> i assume () and [] should only occur matched
00:01:26 <oerjan> i suppose some backslashes may be needed in some syntaxes
00:02:31 <ehird> oerjan: Well, it just munches up the text and then spits out nothing.
00:02:42 <ehird> (I'm actually _splitting_ text by this, which would explain it.)
00:02:54 <oerjan> i said that is the part _before_ the matched character
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00:05:31 <oerjan> hm it might be possible to simplify
00:05:49 <ehird> Well, I'm trying to get it actually working atm
00:06:00 <ehird> ([^\]\[():.,]|[\(][^\)]*[\)]|[\[][^\]]*[\]])*
00:06:04 <ehird> ^ correctly escaped, i think
00:06:36 <oerjan> escapes _inside_ [...] ?
00:06:54 <oerjan> i don't think that's allowed
00:07:10 <oerjan> certainly shouldn't be necessary
00:07:19 <oerjan> as long as ] is the first
00:07:55 <oerjan> but i may recall wrong (and i'm assuming perl)
00:09:29 <oerjan> hm another possibility
00:10:49 <oerjan> only the first requires to check all the way back to the beginning
00:13:05 <ehird> oerjan: btw, there will only ever be one [] or () pair
00:13:07 <ehird> and it will never be at the start
00:13:41 * ehird is currently trying to get yours working
00:13:58 <oerjan> i haven't tested it myself
00:15:09 <ehird> oerjan: wtf is [)]
00:15:43 <oerjan> i got into the habit of putting anything i'm unsure of inside []
00:15:47 <ehird> [^][().,] is meant to be [^\]\[().,] right?
00:16:56 <ehird> >>> x=r'((?:^|\)|\])[^\]\[().,])'
00:16:57 <ehird> >>> re.match(x, 'hello world [abc,def]g.a').groups()
00:17:04 <ehird> (?:...) means 'match this but don't make a group'
00:17:55 <ehird> >>> x=r'(^|\)|\])([^\]\[().,]*)'
00:17:55 <ehird> >>> re.match(x, 'hello world [abc,def]g.a').groups()
00:17:55 <ehird> ('', 'hello world ')
00:18:01 <oerjan> um that _still_ is only the part _before_ the matching character
00:18:13 <oerjan> you are not matching for the character itself
00:19:08 <ehird> oerjan: i'm just trying to get it to match anything that isn't the null string right now
00:19:13 <ehird> walk before you leap and all
00:19:29 <oerjan> it always matches the null string, obviously
00:19:40 <oerjan> if you don't have any condition on what comes after
00:20:29 <oerjan> mm scratch that, should be greedy
00:23:08 <oerjan> ah well you need a better expert
00:41:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | clever.
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03:34:35 <bsmntbombdood> so let's say i have a key->value mapping that takes an item to a list of tags
03:35:15 <bsmntbombdood> and i need to evaluate statements like "x and (y or z)" on the tags, returning the items that match
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09:46:51 <Doitle2> Is there a language with even fewer commands than P'' / BF?
09:57:13 <AnMaster> that would be the ultimate one I believe
09:57:49 <AnMaster> unless you go for something with a totally different paradigm, such as gravity which could be argued to have no commands
09:58:39 <AnMaster> hm doesn't seem that was the name
09:58:49 <AnMaster> there was some lang based on simulating gravity
09:59:01 <AnMaster> and I guess it had commands in some other form
09:59:31 <AnMaster> wait was searching on wrong wiki
10:03:25 <Doitle2> OISC is pretty interesting
10:03:47 <AnMaster> Doitle2, I believe it is the ultimate "few commands"
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10:24:09 <oklokok> oisc's have one complicated instruction
10:24:30 <oklokok> there are ones that have one simple instruction and a more complicated instructionspace.
10:37:21 <AnMaster> and since real computers aren't tc, why should a fictional computer have to be it? After all OISC is pretty close to hardware.
10:40:02 <jix> oklokok: i would call black's instruction quite complicated
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11:25:54 <oklopol> jix: well it's complex to explain, but i find it conceptually simpler.
11:25:59 <oklopol> i guess it's a matter of taste
11:26:17 <jix> oklopol: i think substract two numbers and if the result is negative skip the next instruction is very simple
11:26:21 <oklopol> it just kinda turns when someone flaps its tail.
11:26:31 <oklopol> and bounces when it hits things.
11:27:07 <oklopol> AnMaster: nopol is based on the concept of nopularity, meaning the only instructions are complex nops
11:27:39 <oklopol> AnMaster: it's mine, so one doesn't exist.
11:27:39 <jix> oklopol: what are complex nops?
11:27:54 <oklopol> jix: ones that do computation, then discard it
11:28:08 <jix> but then they aren't nops
11:28:30 <jix> because doing computations is what i'd call an operation
11:28:34 <oklopol> they can evaluate lazily. it's just their semantics
11:28:57 <oklopol> they need to get done what an instruction that does computation and discards it would get done.
11:29:17 <jix> so they are just normal nops in the end
11:29:24 <AnMaster> oklopol, assuming said instructions have no side effects they are nops in other words?
11:29:30 <oklopol> of course, that's the point.
11:29:49 <oklopol> an interpreter can just discard the source
11:29:59 <oklopol> it's the debuggers that make the language interesting :)
11:30:11 <oklopol> really it's just a joke on top of a weird language.
11:30:43 <AnMaster> hm side effect free instruction set
11:31:27 <AnMaster> sure possible to make side effect free languages, but I mean low level instruction set (think asm) that is side effect free
11:32:25 <oklopol> the program consists of a list of operations taken from a set of tuples
11:32:43 <oklopol> regarg being a register given as an argument ofc
11:32:48 <jix> talking of side effects makes only sense if you define some standard input and output that you define to be not a side effect
11:32:52 <oklopol> at least programs in asm can be represented this way
11:32:58 <jix> like for functions the parameter and return value
11:33:00 <oklopol> the set of tuples is finite
11:33:07 <oklopol> so no side-effects can't be tc
11:33:20 <oklopol> unless you give some other definition for either side-effects or asm.
11:33:38 <jix> oklopol: the registers could be infinitely large
11:33:44 <jix> you get a minsky machine then easily
11:33:50 <jix> => turing complete
11:34:04 <jix> ah flow control?
11:34:07 <oklopol> if the program does not have side-effects
11:34:30 <oklopol> so all you have is you can execute any of those instructions, or any amount of them sequentially.
11:34:38 <jix> but if you have enough registers (but finite) you could encode the statemachine in them
11:35:07 <jix> if you chose the right instructions
11:35:17 <oklopol> yes, that basically means having one instruction for each state machine
11:35:39 <jix> you can have one single instruction that works for all statemachines
11:36:02 <jix> it would be a bit complex.... but it could interpret one register as the statemachine description, one as the position in the statemachine, and two as the minsky machine registers
11:36:23 <oklopol> true, you can get an exponential amount of data into one instruction, because the tuple contains any amount of registers.
11:36:38 <oklopol> so yeah, you can get something out of it.
11:36:42 <jix> so 4 registers would be enough
11:37:03 <jix> hmm there are also turing complete minsky machines with 1 register.. so 3 would suffice
11:37:13 <oklopol> but the point is, if you don't have side-effects, you can just have one instruction in the program anyway, because they cannot talk to each other anyway.
11:37:23 <jix> oklopol: yeah
11:37:49 <jix> you just move the side effects to another level were they aren't counted as such
11:38:01 <jix> in this case the register contents
11:38:35 <oklopol> IAU - interpret as unary, no side-effects, but tc on another level.
11:38:47 <oklopol> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Unary this unary
11:43:44 <AnMaster> grr X seems to leak like a sieve
11:44:11 <AnMaster> I mean 600 MB RAM (and growing) usage after X running without a restart for 12 days.
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11:52:27 <fizzie> Incidentally, jitfunge seems to be able to run underload.b98 now; still woefully incomplete, and don't really have free time to work on it, though.
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12:08:58 <jix> hmm i think i have an idea for a new esolang
12:14:35 <jix> inspired by underload but with pattern matching and input
12:41:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | #10 cleans the buffer.
12:45:06 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | i think i have it.
12:45:09 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | It's mine. :-).
13:01:35 <fizzie> Optbot's so possessive.
13:01:36 <optbot> fizzie: of course they don't
13:01:59 <fizzie> optbot: And case-insensitive, too!
13:04:59 <optbot> oerjan: ccbi is apparently the only standard-compilant Funge-98 interp, so that's the one I use
13:06:32 <jix> ^ul (test)S
13:10:22 <ehird> <optbot> oerjan: ccbi is apparently the only standard-compilant Funge-98 interp, so that's the one I use
13:10:25 <ehird> I love it when optbot baits AnMaster
13:10:26 <optbot> ehird: bye.. somebody add the map link to topic! :)
13:12:18 <AnMaster> ehird, when was that said btw?
13:12:37 <AnMaster> I assume before cfunge was developed, or during early development of it
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15:07:12 <Asztal> I just found a quite awful befunge interpreter I wrote
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15:09:44 <fizzie> Everyone probably has a nasty surprise like that in their closet.
15:10:27 <fizzie> I occasionally notice the GLfunge98 sources too when digging around my HD, and feel quite "oh dear"-y.
15:10:50 <AnMaster> fizzie, I believe I have a copy of glfunge around somewhere
15:11:39 <AnMaster> fizzie, any updates to jitfunge?
15:14:42 <fizzie> Bugfixes and bits of STRN, nothing very major. I did update the tarball now.
15:15:38 <fizzie> It runs underload.b98 but very badly, since it keeps recompiling the main interpreter loop. Have to change that a bit at some point.
15:16:40 <AnMaster> fizzie, when you get back: why does it recompile main loop?
15:22:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, mycology fails at "BAD: 7! != 0" now?
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15:49:53 <fizzie> Huh, that's curious. I must've messed something up.
15:50:27 <ehird> fizzie: You said something about a bus?
15:50:45 <fizzie> Yes, from work-place to home-place; I successfully caught it.
15:51:01 <ehird> Oh, I thought it was 15:20
15:51:18 <ehird> This explains things to the brain I use for thinking.
15:53:07 <fizzie> And it recompiles the main loop because of the fact that (to get longer functions) it currently traces code by predicting all branches to be true, which means it generates a single function for the whole main loop; then it ends up hitting that function in multiple locations, which I don't sensibly support yet.
15:55:30 <fizzie> It's a bit non-trivial, since I pass a lot of stuff in registers instead of pushing things onto the stack all the time. I should maybe do the "hit the middle of a function" so that I mark the location as a potential entry-point and recompile the code so that it's possible.
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16:40:18 <AnMaster> fizzie, you mean dynamically changing to make the trace shorter?
16:40:18 <ehird> you know what i want?
16:40:23 <ehird> control of the Storm botnet
16:40:27 <ehird> I would calculate stuff with it.
16:40:36 <ehird> It's a holy-freaking-huge distributed supercomputer!
16:40:52 <ais523> didn't Storm get captured by a group of botnet researchers recently?
16:41:04 <ehird> not captured but i think they used it
16:41:34 <ehird> but srsly, wouldn't it be awesome to be able to calculate stuff on a "computer" with probably the most bandwidth in the world and probably the most processing power in the world?
16:44:12 <ehird> I like how it seems to be semi-autonomous
16:44:21 <ehird> e.g. it ddos'es you seemingly automatic if you try and research into it
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17:22:06 <fizzie> I was thinking of supporting multiple entry-points in the generated functions; that's pretty simple, after all.
17:23:03 <oklopol> http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html
17:24:15 <fizzie> Back when my code snippets always ended where there was an | the system was pretty good at finding the basic blocks without much help, but that's bit more function-call overhead.
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17:25:35 <ehird> ais523: it's a befunge-98 JIT
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17:26:41 <fizzie> And generates x86 native-code.
17:28:38 <oklopol> (my record is 29.3m, tell me if you beat it, hard to obsess without competition)
17:28:56 <oklopol> (actually not that hard, but anyway)
17:29:25 <fizzie> My record is 2.2 metres, then I closed it.
17:30:06 <oklopol> that's what i assume most people do, no need to tell me.
17:30:47 <ehird> oklopol: i cannot do :<
17:31:24 <oklopol> that's a better response, although still not very useful :P
17:31:24 <fizzie> It seems to be a lot easier to move backwards.
17:31:30 <oklopol> took me about 20 minutes to get it moving
17:31:42 <ehird> i'm making him boogie
17:32:09 <oklopol> i can run now, it's just the balance is goddamn hard to keep even though i know how it's theoretically done.
17:32:39 <oklopol> that movement is pretty limited, i can't see any way to add any kind of exploration to that
17:32:47 <oklopol> but esoteric movement is always esoteric movement
17:33:35 <oklopol> ("one click method" my ass, if i need to choose a mirror, it's a two-click method, which is considerably worse)
17:34:01 <fizzie> I'm not completely certain that game is 100 % realistic.
17:34:21 <ais523> do even better than a one click method: have a one hover method
17:34:29 <ais523> one hover shopping, for instance, could be quite interesting
17:34:35 <ais523> you'd have to be very careful with your mouse movement
17:35:09 <oklopol> aiming for realism is only good when done for inspiration. aiming for realism for realism's sake is pointless
17:35:28 <fizzie> I would like to be able to flip the guy, since it's so very easy to go backwards.
17:36:02 <oklopol> i haven't actually mastered the whole concept, just running forward.
17:36:19 <oklopol> well not that i can explain how running forward is done.
17:36:32 <fizzie> Backwards is doable by simply alternating o and p.
17:36:34 <oklopol> well, wo for one leg, then qp for the other, repeat
17:37:12 <oklopol> if the leg, when rising up, is too far away, over 90 degrees, use either o or p, depending on which you used to lift the leg, to contract it
17:37:27 <fizzie> (Starting with p; and he ends up sort-of running on his toes backwards.)
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17:39:35 <fizzie> Also this seems to sort-of work: keeping both legs spread out as far as possible, then using "qo" to bounce forwards a bit and then "wp" to reset.
17:39:55 <fizzie> Moves forwards by some .1 metres or so.
17:40:55 <oklopol> at 50 meters, there's some kind of hurdle, i hear.
17:42:12 <fizzie> Well, I'm at 14 metres, running on one knee.
17:42:37 <oklopol> if you have the patience, tell me what the hurdle thingie is like.
17:43:12 <fizzie> Sure, if I get that far. 21.4 metres now.
17:43:39 <fizzie> I'd watch them Olympics if they ran this way.
17:47:11 <ehird> fizzie: you're giving me a funny seizure.
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17:47:33 <fizzie> Almost fell over backwards when I tried to bounce for more than 30 centimetres.
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17:48:19 <fizzie> Okay, 48.6 metres, found the hurdle.
17:50:03 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/runner.png -- incidentally, that is my running posture.
17:50:32 <fizzie> Sure, but I don't know how I'm going to get over that thing.
17:51:02 <ehird> man, someone call the olympic guys
17:51:06 <ehird> they should do it like this
17:51:42 <ehird> lol i almost rolled a meter
17:52:46 <oklopol> i can run a steady 15 meters, and 20-25 isn't rare
17:52:55 <oklopol> but for some reason i always trip around there.
17:53:01 <oklopol> even though it's just a flat surface.
17:53:08 <fizzie> The hurdle isn't fixed in place.
17:53:13 <fizzie> I just knocked it down.
17:53:22 <fizzie> Maybe I can keep pushing it forward for the next 50 metres.
17:55:09 <fizzie> I'll try; although I got a bit of stuck: http://zem.fi/~fis/runner2.png
17:55:43 <ehird> fizzie: at -2 meters there is an UNCANNILY LARGE GRAY BLOCK
17:55:54 <fizzie> Yes, noticed when I tried to run backwards a bit.
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17:56:25 <fizzie> Seems I can still push that hurdle-thing forward with the right leg, it's just a bit slower.
17:57:24 <ehird> to the huge gray block
17:57:27 <ehird> and run into it :<
18:00:41 <fizzie> Got the fence-thing stuck to my groin for a while, had to jump for quite a while.
18:00:54 <fizzie> Probably not going to win any style points with this.
18:02:59 <fizzie> 70 metres. Almost accidentally got over it, but not quite, and not going to start doing any athletics at this point.
18:06:24 <oklopol> seems kinda pointless now that i learned to run.
18:06:38 <oklopol> especially as there's not even a timer.
18:08:24 <fizzie> But I'm not the only one doing it like this: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1064/qwopyx9.gif
18:09:55 <fizzie> There seems to be a water thing ahead or something.
18:10:02 <fizzie> But I got past the fence, again accidentally.
18:10:30 <oklopol> the small blue thing just before the goal?
18:10:37 <oklopol> doesn't look too dangerous
18:10:59 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/runner3.png
18:11:13 <fizzie> Maybe it isn't. Will have to see.
18:11:23 <fizzie> Not going to rerun this far if I end up sinking in it or something.
18:12:04 <fizzie> Then comes a sand thing and a measurement tape.
18:12:19 <fizzie> Well, I'm certainly not going to *jump* here.
18:14:46 <fizzie> Final metres: http://zem.fi/~fis/runner4.png http://zem.fi/~fis/runner5.png
18:14:50 <fizzie> That was quite a jump.
18:15:29 <oklopol> were you a nationall hero?
18:16:51 <fizzie> Dunno. We have the same nationality; am I your hero?
18:17:41 <oklopol> what do you think, you just beat a game i've been banging for hours?
18:18:09 <fizzie> You can run to the end and make a longer jump and still beat me. :p
18:18:14 <oklopol> well i guess you could be my nemesis or something.
18:18:33 <oklopol> i was thinking "yes", but "no" works just as well
18:20:39 <oklopol> well, i'll probably play this for the rest of the week, if i finish it, i'll let you know.
18:20:54 <oklopol> now some fun c++ exercises ->
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18:44:05 <ehird> http://www.foddy.net/Cricket.html
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19:34:19 <GregorR> VARIABLE ARGUMENTS BOT AWAAAAy
19:34:42 <Hiato> heh, darn it, the code still doesn't quite work
19:35:15 <Hiato> dang nab it. Oh well, some other time then
19:42:32 <Hiato> not who, ratehr what
19:42:42 <Hiato> it is my attempt at a IRC bot in python
19:42:51 <Hiato> which has been met with partial success
19:43:53 <GregorR> ais523: Can't you see it does nothing?
19:44:00 <Hiato> Currently, it (is supposed to) throw out a random quote of GLaDOS from Portal when you call it's nick
19:44:08 <ais523> well, what is it meant to do is more of the question
19:44:19 <Hiato> but, that needs, er, work (it was working last night with ~q - check the logs)
19:44:37 <Hiato> Overall, I have no idea, interpret an obscure esolang or something
19:45:57 <GregorR> Make it MindBogglinglyInsecureBot and the only command is to exec something.
19:46:24 <Hiato> heh, interesting, but undoubtedly a no from me
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19:48:59 <Hiato> aha, thanks ais523, through the introduction of that two, you showed me the subtle flaw in the code :P
19:49:19 <ais523> programming is weird...
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19:50:28 <ais523> there are 3 vabots in here at the moment; vabot, vabot1, vabot3
19:50:44 <Hiato> Yeah, sorry about that, can't seem to get the disconnect string
19:50:49 <Hiato> HAHAH, you crashed it :P
19:51:16 <Hiato> aha, thank you, should be better now :)
19:51:50 <ais523> just cutting the connection works too
19:52:01 <ais523> if you send QUIT, the server will cut the connection
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19:52:42 <vabot3> Hiato: My guess is that touching it will just make your life even worse somehow. I don't want to tell you your business, but if it were me Id leave that thing alone.
19:52:50 <Hiato> And there we are :D
19:53:05 <Hiato> and I should be able to make it leave too
19:53:06 <vabot3> ais523: COMPANION CUBE, You said to take care of it, How can I, You wouldn't let me, I should disregard your, advice Leave me alone!
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19:53:28 <Hiato> hoorah! thanks ais523 :D
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19:57:25 <Hiato> vabot, tell me about marx
19:57:28 <vabot> Hiato: Momentum, a function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In layman's terms, speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out.
19:58:14 <vabot> Hiato: Though earth and man are gone, I thought the cube would last forever, I WAS WRONG
19:58:26 -!- vabot has quit (Client Quit).
19:59:11 <ais523> btw, what reason did you give? Freenode won't show people unless it's been connected for a while, to avoid quit msg spam
19:59:30 <Hiato> s.send('QUIT :underflow\r\n')
19:59:58 <ais523> I reckon... oklopol this time
20:00:16 <Hiato> now my only gripe is with string.find('blah')
20:00:27 <jix> hmm what would be a funny esolang to write an irc bot in?
20:00:40 <ais523> jix: some of the best ones are already taken
20:00:55 <jix> Hiato: i knew this answer would come
20:00:57 <ais523> you could do INTERCAL if you're willing to work around the lack of any sort of string handling, it's pretty flexible and usable otherwise
20:01:03 <ais523> for an esolang, that is
20:01:25 <ais523> Unlambda could be interesting
20:01:42 <Hiato> yeah, try a functional language
20:01:43 <ais523> Thutu and Funge-98 have already been done
20:02:06 -!- vabot has joined.
20:02:06 <vabot> n;: That thing you burned up inst important to me. Its the fluid catalytic cracking unit. It made shoes for orphans. Nice job breaking it, hero.
20:02:39 <vabot> Hiato: Are you trying to escape? [High-pitched laughter] Things have changed since you last left the building. Whats going on outside will make you wish you were back in here. I have an infinite capacity for knowledge, and even I'm not sure whats going on outside.
20:02:56 -!- olsner has joined.
20:03:02 <vabot> Hiato: Well, you found me. Congratulations. Was it worth it? Because despite your violent behavior, all you have managed to break so far, is my heart. Why don't we just leave it at that and call it a day?
20:03:14 <Hiato> Oh well, guess no Karl Marx quotes for a while then
20:04:00 <Hiato> Hrmm, I could probably start perpetual bot chatter here. Does fungbot respond with a nick?
20:04:16 <Hiato> and what language is it's input in?
20:04:19 <vabot> ais523: That thing you burned up inst important to me. Its the fluid catalytic cracking unit. It made shoes for orphans. Nice job breaking it, hero.
20:04:20 <vabot> fungot: My guess is that touching it will just make your life even worse somehow. I don't want to tell you your business, but if it were me Id leave that thing alone.
20:04:20 <fungot> vabot: added: actually i don't think this is intended to mean that the predecessors to the edomites, of whom fnord were men, fnord print fnord for women, an obnoxious person, any person) on this matter.
20:04:21 <vabot> fungot: As part of a required test protocol, our previous statement suggesting that we would not monitor this chamber was an outright fabrication.
20:04:22 <fungot> vabot: could someone describe an actual experimental measuring method? i'm attempting this as a pseudo trumpet? user:dcb1995david 07:21, 24 february 2007 ( utc))
20:04:23 <vabot> fungot: Time out for a second ...that wasn't supposed to happen. Did you see that thing that fell out of me? What is that? Its not the surprise- Ive never seen it before. Never mind- its a mystery Ill solve later... by myself...because youll be dead.
20:04:23 <fungot> vabot: best regards, cam. fnord 14:20, 23 june 2006 ( utc)
20:04:24 <vabot> fungot: COMPANION CUBE, You said to take care of it, How can I, You wouldn't let me, I should disregard your, advice Leave me alone!
20:04:25 <fungot> vabot: as you can see, the dismantling has not been reading uk press reports on this either widely or closely, her dog, fnord is covered on the page
20:04:26 <vabot> fungot: Superstition perceiving inanimate objects as alive, and hallucinations Im not hallucinating. You are. The companion cube would never desert me. Desert. So long ... Cake. Ha ha Cake. A lie. The companion cube would never lie to me.
20:04:38 <ais523> Hiato: fungot has an anti-loop provision
20:04:38 <fungot> ais523: earlier, i made this edit on september 14th. on september 15th, a series of pages on these matters. a page for the article, but i have a fnord
20:04:55 <Hiato> ooh, fancy aint it? I see, and who wrote it?
20:05:00 <ais523> and Underload or Brainfuck
20:05:05 <ais523> and fungot is fizzie's
20:05:06 <fungot> ais523: the term " pseudostrong" atheist comes to mind as an appropriate label, in the next week. kb fnord 20:01, 4 april 2007 ( utc))
20:05:15 <ais523> thutubot does Underload, but it doesn't respond to its nick
20:05:34 <Hiato> Hrmm, what language should vabot do?
20:05:35 <vabot> Hiato: Well, you found me. Congratulations. Was it worth it? Because despite your violent behavior, all you have managed to break so far, is my heart. Why don't we just leave it at that and call it a day?
20:05:59 <AnMaster> ais523, how goes gcc-bf? ick? feather?
20:06:09 <AnMaster> I got a good name for a feather interpreter btw.
20:06:10 <ais523> ick's the only one with activity
20:06:28 <AnMaster> ais523, two ideas: 1) pen 2) bird
20:07:04 <AnMaster> 2) pens have traditionally been made from feathers
20:07:22 <oklopol> it also sound pretty mundane and boring :d
20:07:31 <oklopol> feather could be the name of a pen interpreter
20:07:55 <oklopol> that's good, but no one would get it.
20:08:37 <jix> nah i don't want to write an irc bot in unlambda
20:09:42 <vabot> Hiato: Not in cruelty, Not in wrath, The REAPER came today, An ANGEL visited, this gray path, And took the cube away.
20:10:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:10:45 -!- vabot1 has joined.
20:11:00 <vabot1> Hiato: The cake is a lie
20:11:08 <vabot1> Hiato: As part of a required test protocol, our previous statement suggesting that we would not monitor this chamber was an outright fabrication.
20:11:10 <vabot1> GregorR: Id just like to point out that you were given every opportunity to succeed. There was even going to be a party for you. A big party that all your friends were invited to. I invited your best friend the companion cube. Of course, he couldn't come because you murdered him. All your other friends couldn't come either because you don't have any other friends. Because of how unlikable you are. It says so here in your personnel file: Un
20:11:26 <vabot1> Hiato: My guess is that touching it will just make your life even worse somehow. I don't want to tell you your business, but if it were me Id leave that thing alone.
20:11:30 <vabot1> oerjan: Do you think I'm trying to trick you with reverse psychology? Seriously now...
20:13:26 <Hiato> Sorry about this all, but may I proceed with some testing?
20:13:43 <ais523> Hiato: I don't mind, although it's usual to create a new channel for that sort of thing
20:13:44 <Hiato> (or does anyone know a blank channel?)
20:13:49 <ais523> try #esoteric-blah, that's what it was created for
20:14:23 <ais523> you can just create a new blank channel by /joining it, though, if nobody's using it you end up alone in the channel with op, and can do what you like there within reason
20:14:40 <Hiato> Aha, I see, thanks once more
20:15:16 <oerjan> but of course, #esoteric-blah allows those who like esoteric bot testing to watch
20:17:18 <optbot> fungot: ctrl+alt+del is your friend
20:17:38 <fizzie> I've also ignored them more permanent bots, but this new one seems to have a rather variable name.
20:17:47 <fizzie> It's matched against the full nick!user@host prefix.
20:18:10 <oerjan> fungot: would you ignore someone saying thutubot!
20:18:11 <fungot> oerjan: sorry, the ancient land of the free and the home of the brave? fnord
20:18:25 <fizzie> No, it's only matched to the prefix part of the message.
20:19:02 <fungot> ais523: please ' ' ' this'" wikipedia article constitutes fair use. in addition to the wikipedia:image copyright tags/ fair useboilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with wp:fufair use.
20:19:40 <fizzie> "WP:FUFAIR" is a new one, I think.
20:20:38 <fizzie> Probably has been a link like [[WP:FU|fair use]] but with the notation stripped.
20:22:00 <fizzie> fungot: Maybe you should go back to IRC logs from Wikipedia again.
20:22:01 <fungot> fizzie: unless you mean it takes an element filter procedure, but maybe i will when i start fixing it rather than to trigger wind points on the turn before to nail his mortar-wielding gear.
20:22:10 <oerjan> <ais523> one hover shopping, for instance, could be quite interesting
20:22:41 <ais523> or even better, one mouseover shopping
20:24:51 <oerjan> fizzie: you're getting a lot of corpora, maybe you could make a fungot command to switch between them? (i assume you are doing it manually now)
20:24:52 <fungot> oerjan: change that at will. though that proof is tough in general, and in essence: yes.
20:29:39 -!- vabot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:33:28 -!- vabot1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:33:55 -!- Judofyr has joined.
20:42:00 <ehird> fizzie: If you don't unignore optbot, it will wage war against fungot. :-P
20:42:01 <fungot> ehird: yes, i am curious about imail as wel. maybe some people would be motivated to look into
20:42:08 <ehird> optbot: no, please no demonstrations
20:42:08 <optbot> ehird: i mean, as well as the clever domain pun
20:43:33 -!- Judofyr has quit.
20:46:30 -!- AnMaster has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:47:51 -!- AnMaster has joined.
20:49:31 -!- vabot has joined.
20:49:51 <Hiato> If you must kill him, be kind. Simpy calling his nick like this: vabot results in him quoting portal
20:49:52 <vabot> Hiato: Superstition perceiving inanimate objects as alive, and hallucinations Im not hallucinating. You are. The companion cube would never desert me. Desert. So long ... Cake. Ha ha Cake. A lie. The companion cube would never lie to me.
20:50:18 <Hiato> saying vabot, tell Hiato so and so causes him to record everything that you told him in a log for me
20:50:19 <vabot> Hiato: Harked and marked
20:50:47 <Hiato> and finally, you can ask vabout about marx to which he will reply
20:50:56 <vabot> From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
20:51:16 <Hiato> so goodnight and cheers
20:51:23 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
20:59:43 <fizzie> Yes, currently I just have the model.bin and tokens.bin be symlinks I can easily swap.
21:08:43 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:09:44 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais524.
21:10:25 <oerjan> oh no, he's mutating again
21:10:36 <ais524> oerjan: <AnMaster> ais523++
21:10:39 <ais524> you can blame it on him
21:10:52 <ais524> it was just a simple increment...
21:11:06 <jix> but since when do variables change name when you increment them?
21:11:14 <ais524> someone put me back to normal, please, it feels weird for me not to be odd
21:11:43 <jix> ais524 |= 1 // should make you odd enough
21:11:44 -!- ais524 has changed nick to ais274576.
21:11:48 <oerjan> to late, now you're even square
21:11:54 -!- ais274576 has changed nick to ais274577.
21:12:20 -!- ais274577 has changed nick to aisNAN.
21:12:32 * oerjan points out that was no assignment
21:12:49 <aisNAN> /= is an assignment...
21:12:51 <jix> getting rid of nan without assignment is hard....
21:12:54 * oerjan goes to exorcise some haskell
21:13:54 <jix> *(int*)&aisNAN *= 0
21:14:05 <jix> i hope i got precedence right
21:14:32 <AnMaster> jix, that is invalid aliasing I believe, not sure though
21:14:46 <AnMaster> but I don't think there is any warranty for it
21:14:47 <jix> AnMaster: but in practice it does work.... even though it's dirty as hell
21:15:13 <oerjan> but is int the right size?
21:15:15 <AnMaster> (guarantee and warranty is the same word in Swedish)
21:15:24 <aisNAN> jix: that failed for some reason, not sure, but my padding bits seem a bit empty
21:15:27 <oerjan> i fear you are only filling in part of him
21:15:45 <jix> if he is a float it works
21:16:03 <jix> AnMaster: why shouldn't it work?
21:16:16 <AnMaster> jix, sizeof(int) can be something else than 4
21:16:22 <oerjan> what is the value of ehird
21:16:23 <AnMaster> and CHAR_BITS something else than 8
21:16:32 <jix> AnMaster: well usually it would work
21:16:34 <AnMaster> jix, while float is always 32-bit on IEEE conforming ones
21:16:47 -!- aisNAN has changed nick to ais523.
21:17:10 <vabot> ehird: Superstition perceiving inanimate objects as alive, and hallucinations Im not hallucinating. You are. The companion cube would never desert me. Desert. So long ... Cake. Ha ha Cake. A lie. The companion cube would never lie to me.
21:17:15 <ehird> vabot: tell vabot to vabot
21:17:16 <vabot> ehird: Keep doing whatever it is you think you're doing. Killing you and giving you good advice aren't mutually exclusive. The rocket really is the way to go.
21:17:20 <jix> memset(&aisNAN,0,(size_t)-1);
21:17:20 <ehird> vabot: tell ehird to test
21:17:22 <vabot> ehird: Well, you found me. Congratulations. Was it worth it? Because despite your violent behavior, all you have managed to break so far, is my heart. Why don't we just leave it at that and call it a day?
21:17:28 <vabot> AnMaster: That thing you burned up inst important to me. Its the fluid catalytic cracking unit. It made shoes for orphans. Nice job breaking it, hero.
21:17:34 <jix> that should fill enough!!!111
21:17:35 <vabot> jix: [fake-coughing] Neurotoxin... so deadly... Choking... [laughs] Kidding! When I said deadly neurotoxin, the deadly was in massive sarcasm quotes. I could take a bath in this stuff, put it on cereal, rub it right into my eyes, honestly, its not deadly at all. To me. You, on the other hand, are going to find its deadliness a lot less funny.
21:17:39 <ais523> "Killing you and giving you good advice aren't mutually exclusive" <--- that's sigabble, I suppose...
21:17:39 <optbot> AnMaster: so you have (CAR (CONS A B)) = ((LAMBDA (X Y) X) A B) = A
21:18:05 <vabot> AnMaster: As part of a required test protocol, our previous statement suggesting that we would not monitor this chamber was an outright fabrication.
21:19:14 <AnMaster> and what can it do except talk?
21:19:33 <oerjan> supposedly remember messages to hiato
21:20:13 <oerjan> it's just been hacked together, don't expect too much yet :D
21:22:15 <AnMaster> I should write that irc bot in erlang that I planned
21:22:30 <AnMaster> for now I guess I could join that irc bot in bash that I have
21:23:20 -!- envbot has joined.
21:24:45 <oerjan> envbot: so what do you do?
21:25:12 * ais523 tries to remember what envbot's prefix is
21:25:25 <envbot> Available commands: modload, modunload, modreload, modlist, rehash, dumpvars, provides, commands, join, part, quote, say, act, raw, eix, help, modinfo, learn, forget, lock factoid, unlock factoid, whatis, factoid stats, bugs search, bug, karma, roll, seen, kick, ban, convert
21:25:50 <AnMaster> no recent development on it though
21:26:12 <jix> -raw what?
21:26:34 <AnMaster> - 2008-11-10 22:26:12 ERROR jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-065-114.ewe-ip-backbone.de tried to "send a raw line" but lacks access.
21:26:34 <AnMaster> > 2008-11-10 22:26:12 RAW NOTICE jix :Permission denied. You need the capability "sendraw" to do this action.
21:26:57 <AnMaster> < 2008-11-10 22:26:42 RAW :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ERROR was dark red
21:28:03 <envbot> envbot is a modular IRC bot in bash. More info can be found at http://envbot.org
21:28:22 <AnMaster> -learn envbot is a modular IRC bot in bash. More info can be found at http://envbot.kuonet.org
21:28:23 <envbot> Ok AnMaster, I will remember, envbot is a modular IRC bot in bash. More info can be found at http://envbot.kuonet.org
21:28:35 <AnMaster> ehird, well everyone else joined their bots
21:28:39 <ehird> who let envbot in here?
21:28:50 <AnMaster> ehird, everyone else joined bots
21:28:57 <fizzie> It's a very botty channel these days.
21:29:08 <ehird> fizzie: envbot is shit, though.
21:29:11 <ehird> you have to take these things into account.
21:29:16 <ehird> or what kind of op are you?!
21:29:34 <AnMaster> because I wrote it in bash just for fun?
21:29:48 <AnMaster> I think writing it in befunge or so is at the same level
21:30:05 <AnMaster> but, I mean level of insaneness
21:30:23 -!- Corun has left (?).
21:30:55 <AnMaster> ehird, are you ignoring me? or just refusing to respond ;)
21:31:12 <jix> hmm writing an irc bot in awk
21:31:22 <jix> or even sed?
21:31:38 <jix> i'm going to use my native awk which doesn't
21:31:49 <AnMaster> jix, right, that would would be easy
21:32:03 <AnMaster> fizzie, issuse with sed: can you generate output without any input?
21:32:26 <jix> i think sed would be more tricky
21:32:47 <fizzie> I'm sure you can work-around that, for example by having the script read/write some fifos which you prime with an "INIT" line.
21:33:16 <AnMaster> $ awk 'BEGIN { print "NICK foo" }'
21:33:33 <jix> well awk can do that but can sed do it
21:33:40 <fizzie> But no, I don't think a sed script can do anything before the first line of input comes in.
21:33:52 <fizzie> Still, you just just need to give it a line.
21:34:39 <jix> but i don't use sed a lot
21:34:49 <jix> i always use awk except for simple search/replace
21:35:09 <AnMaster> jix, you could trivially do it in awk, the pattern matching of awk would be perfect even
21:35:12 <fizzie> I've done a bit of programming with sed, just because.
21:35:12 <ehird> do we even have an underload bot
21:35:22 <ais523> ehird: Underload doesn't have input
21:35:24 <jix> AnMaster: yeah that's why i don't want to use it
21:35:39 <ehird> i'm sure i could get around it.
21:35:41 <ais523> so it couldn't respond to pings
21:35:43 <ais523> except by flooding the server
21:35:47 <ais523> as it doesn't have time delays either
21:35:50 <ais523> AnMaster: how should I know?
21:35:55 <ehird> i could make it automatically push or sth
21:36:02 <AnMaster> ais523, since he refused to answer why he thought envbot was bad
21:36:48 <jix> hmm makebot?
21:37:22 <ehird> make is just shell
21:37:39 <jix> well without using any external tools except echo of course
21:37:43 <jix> (and nc for network)
21:37:46 <fizzie> fis@eris:~/src/archived_prog/sed$ sed -f fib2.sed
21:37:46 <fizzie> 002584|001597|000987|000610|000377|000233|000144|000089|000055|000034|000021|000013|000008|000005|000003|000002|000001|000001|
21:37:52 <fizzie> (First line is input.)
21:38:41 <ais523> fizzie: the answer is backwards, though...
21:39:03 * ais523 tries to remember if they have an Underload interp in sed somewhere
21:39:22 <fizzie> I seem to have another version which takes a decimal N as input and gives the Nth number of the sequence as output.
21:39:57 <fizzie> Oh, and that one (fib.sed) does it recursively; fib2.sed is iterative.
21:40:09 <fizzie> Have to sleep now though, g'night.
21:40:26 <ais523> nope, only Perl, JS and Thutu
21:40:55 <AnMaster> ais523, should be easy enough to write one in C or so
21:41:10 <ais523> ehird and I have an Underload to C /compiler/
21:41:10 <AnMaster> ais523, heck I could probably hack one up in erlang if you want
21:41:19 <ais523> and yes, Underload is very easy to interpret
21:41:51 <ais523> befunge is harder, surely
21:42:04 <ais523> you need to match parens
21:42:49 <ais523> some time, I'm going to finish off Underlambda, which I was actually thinking about last night
21:42:58 <ais523> it's like Underload but fixed and high-level (i.e. more commands)
21:43:10 <ais523> designed to be easy to write in, easy to compile into, easy to compile from, easy to interpret
21:43:24 <AnMaster> ais523, so what makes it an eso lang?
21:43:27 <ais523> fixed: with input, correct S so it doesn't block compilation into concatenative and functional langs
21:43:43 <ais523> AnMaster: would you call Underload an esolang? If so, why?
21:43:55 <ais523> esolang does not necessarily imply difficult to use
21:44:01 <ais523> also, Lisp is a tarpit
21:44:31 <ais523> well, Underlambda is designed to be an intermediate lang for compilations
21:44:44 <ais523> I had a working Unlambda -> Underlambda compiler once, but deleted it by mistake
21:44:48 <ais523> I should reconstruct it some time
21:45:06 <AnMaster> ais523, hm someone should make a high level, usable esolang
21:45:36 <AnMaster> like say, Haskell or C usability and usefulness, yet an esolang
21:46:18 <ais523> also, INTERCAL would be almost, it just needs a string library and more practical expression syntax
21:46:47 <AnMaster> idea: intracal (should be written all lowercase)
21:47:30 <ais523> FWIW, Funge-98 is getting pretty high level and libraryy atm
21:47:41 <AnMaster> ais523, yes but still hard to code in
21:47:46 <ais523> (libraryy = not real word, library + -y, meaning "full of libraries")
21:47:53 <ais523> and is Funge really that hard to code in?
21:48:12 <AnMaster> ais523, well no, but it is write-only
21:48:42 <ais523> AnMaster: but much less so than Unlambda
21:48:50 <ais523> and actually I find Funge one of the easier esolangs to read
21:49:06 <ais523> reading an unknown Funge program is slightly easier than reading an unknown INTERCAL program IMO
21:49:19 <AnMaster> ais523, I was just about to say the reverse
21:49:25 <ais523> you have to know how I read programs to understand why, though
21:49:29 <AnMaster> but I guess I only seen commented examples
21:49:30 <ais523> I like to read programs in the order they run
21:49:36 <ais523> in Funge, that's relatively obvious
21:49:45 <ais523> one command runs, then the next, then the next
21:49:54 <ais523> most langs have expression syntaxes that make it much harder to read
21:49:55 <AnMaster> ais523, I can't maintain a stack with more than 4 or 5 items in my head
21:50:12 <ais523> AnMaster: how many more elements than 4 or 5 are typically relevant at once, though?
21:50:16 <AnMaster> so I prefer structured languages
21:50:34 <AnMaster> ais523, well depends, once you pop them you suddenly need more
21:51:05 <ais523> AnMaster: but they're in a different scope
21:51:39 <AnMaster> ais523, also it hard to know where a scope begins or ends
21:51:45 <AnMaster> ais523, now RUBE is easy to read
21:51:54 <AnMaster> I would say easier than befunge
21:52:18 <ais523> can you track its flow control?
21:52:18 <ais523> I'm not even convinced it's TC
21:52:50 <AnMaster> ais523, also yes I can do that
21:52:51 <ais523> RUBE? I don't think so
21:52:52 <jix> hmm a cellular automaton irc bot....
21:52:56 <jix> that would be... crazy
21:52:59 <ais523> RedGreen is, but only because it embeds the Game of Life
21:53:11 <jix> letting letters walk over the screen ^^
21:53:11 <AnMaster> "RUBE is Turing complete, but only if you give it an unbounded playing field."
21:53:20 <jayCampbell> "Attempting to write anything even approaching a single "Turing-power" in this language is an utter nightmare."
21:53:29 <ais523> what do you have to fill the playfield with?
21:53:36 <ais523> probably something as convoluted as the 2,3 pattern
21:53:39 <AnMaster> ais523, you can have generators after all
21:54:18 <AnMaster> ; special replicator rev rev yes no
21:54:27 <AnMaster> iirc you place an identical block just above
21:56:45 <AnMaster> <jayCampbell> "Attempting to write anything even approaching a single "Turing-power" in this language is an utter nightmare." <-- from where is that quote?
21:57:34 <jix> well i have an idea for another esolang (not really underload based anymore) that'll implement soon and write an irc bot in i think
21:57:37 <AnMaster> jayCampbell, also what is turing power?
21:57:38 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:58:40 <ehird> ais523: what are the underload-dei transformations again?
21:58:59 <ais523> ehird: you expect me to remember off the top of my head after all this time?
21:59:10 <ais523> I didn't save them anywhere
21:59:42 <jayCampbell> http://catseye.tc/projects/rube/doc/rube.html
22:01:16 <AnMaster> jayCampbell, well if you remove the 80x25 restriction...
22:06:35 <ehird> lol, i inspired zzo38 to write a browser.
22:06:46 <ehird> a shit one, albeit.
22:06:55 <ais523> I haven't seen zzo38 around in ages...
22:07:06 <ehird> he never goes anywhere but his own site, it seems.
22:07:16 <ehird> i just read the posts there for laughs, because he's completely bonkers
22:08:40 <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/
22:08:45 <ehird> Specifically, Chronojournal.
22:09:05 <ais523> nothing wrong with Chronojournal...
22:09:28 <ehird> except for being hideously hard to use and ugly and bloated and crazy and yeah
22:09:58 <ehird> his post of his browser announcement is a few posts back
22:10:03 <ehird> and my comment linking to conkeror is one post before.
22:10:25 <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1216426880 This is pretty much my favourite post of his.
22:11:43 <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1203755544 possibly tops it
22:11:50 <ehird> [[# Power to commit suicide: I don't need that because it is better to live than to die. If I wanted to commit suicide anyways I can do it in other ways other than just this, anyways. ]]
22:12:03 <ehird> [[# Power to be the prime minister: I wouldn't know how to be prime minister. I would probably make everything wrong, even though I have a lot of good ideas. ]]
22:15:48 <AnMaster> ehird, power to avoid silly blog?
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