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00:18:13 <GregorR> Now everything in vi works EXCEPT quit (pfft, who needs that anyway) and when you go to command mode (:foo) it draws the command right where you are instead of at the bottom of the screen.
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00:19:18 <nooga> GregorR: is it some special vi then?
00:19:31 <GregorR> nooga: It's traditional vi
00:19:52 <GregorR> I'll attack vim next, since any issues are at least as likely to be vi as JSMIPS :P
00:20:08 <nooga> so what are you doing with that vi?
00:20:28 <GregorR> You don't know that I'm referring to making vi work on my JSMIPS simulator?
00:21:37 <jayCampbell> vi in the browser will revolutionize web development until adobe bundles vimWorks in Flash 12
00:22:55 <nooga> isn't it a bit slow?
00:23:32 <oerjan> nooga: moore's law will surely take care of that
00:23:39 <jayCampbell> it encourages thoughtful development practices
00:24:54 <GregorR> nooga: It's slowish ... but I have a JIT >: )
00:25:51 <oerjan> definition: a program is considered slow if moore's law matters during its running time
00:27:40 <Asztal> is there a HTML5-backed filesystem? :D
00:27:51 <Asztal> err.. HTML5 DOM Storage, that is
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00:36:54 <nooga> and it appears that it is a major shit
00:39:07 <oerjan> 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga
00:40:02 <ehird> nooga: major shit why?
00:40:42 <jayCampbell> gregor very cool how much you've got running
00:40:54 <oerjan> try: i'm testing Haiku / and it appears that it is / just a piece of shit
00:47:12 <jayCampbell> what esolang deserves an interpreter but is lacking one
00:47:23 <jayCampbell> the 'unimplemented' list on esowiki isn't terribly inspiring
00:59:12 <oerjan> now if you were SURPRISED, i'd be WORRIED
01:00:14 <oerjan> which gives me the obvious idea: GregorR, you need a tinfoil hat. as stylish as possible, of course.
01:00:19 <nooga> still i cannot imagine how you've managed to compile something unixy for MIPS which emulator is written in js
01:01:34 <nooga> i require immediate sleep
01:01:39 <oerjan> ah yes, GregorR needs a wizard hat too
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01:18:21 <MizardX> Hmm... was looking at the implemented/unimplemented categories on the wiki. "1L" is in both categories.
01:21:05 <oerjan> ah yes, it is not one language, but several, not all implemented
01:28:47 <oerjan> yes, you _definitely_ need a tinfoil hat.
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04:06:05 <GregorR> HOLY EFFING HOLY EFFING OMGOMGOMG
04:08:13 <GregorR> My vim started in a MIPS simulator in my browser.
04:08:33 <warrie> That's not millions of instructions per second, is it.
04:09:03 <warrie> A RISC architecture, I see.
04:10:52 <warrie> Suddenly, I think it would be a good idea to come up with a simple self-modifying language and then write a program that keeps a bunch of programs in this language running, occasionally randomly changing them, and replacing them with combinations of others.
04:11:22 <GregorR> Congratulations, you just reinvented evolutionary programming?
04:11:38 <warrie> Just like an evolution simulation, except programs die randomly instead of according to how well they do, and the programs can alter their genotypes at will.
04:15:05 * warrie goes "omgomgomg", much the way people go "nomnomnom"
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04:34:07 <GregorR> http://codu.org/jsmips_vim.png http://codu.org/jsmips_vim_2.png
04:34:24 <GregorR> http://codu.org/jsmips/jsmips_vim.png http://codu.org/jsmips/jsmips_vim_2.png
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04:51:24 <GregorR> The "JS" in JSMIPS is important.
04:56:26 <GregorR> http://codu.org/jsmips/system.html Go here, type "vim", wait ten minutes, laugh maniacally ^^
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05:46:38 <MizardX> GregorR: Only problem; There is no way of getting out of input-mode :P
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06:15:54 <GregorR> Yes, that downloads all the files.
06:15:59 <GregorR> Thanks for wasting my bandwidth.
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06:58:22 * GregorR just improved the JIT ... it's a bit faster now.
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09:18:31 <whtspc> Hi! I've created some sort of esolang, what is the best place to post for discussion ?
09:20:24 <whtspc> Hi okay, but I'm quite new to this IRC thing, does conversation gets saved while I'm away for instance?
09:20:40 <Slereah_> This particular channel has a log.
09:22:01 <Slereah_> So don't talk about that time you murdered that prostitute here.
09:22:34 <whtspc> Well let's start with a link to the development topic I have at another forum first:
09:22:36 <whtspc> http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.0
09:25:26 <whtspc> Yeah how surprising, isn't it? it's better explained as a toy to output data in a different way than the usual ascii.
09:25:44 <whtspc> That's where the difference lies
09:26:37 <Slereah_> Something like... THIS? http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Hello.png
09:27:35 <Slereah_> Infinite 2D grids are a bitch.
09:29:11 <Slereah_> It's also very small apparently :o
09:29:12 <whtspc> Well hi, I'm a pretty newbie to this sort of stuff,
09:29:44 <whtspc> I like to have some guidelines, I'm not looking for hostility
09:30:07 <whtspc> The grid should be resizable in the end
09:30:33 <whtspc> someone is working on interpreter in real language, (other than actionscript)
09:31:10 <Slereah_> You'll find pretty much anything on anything here.
09:31:19 <whtspc> a programming language, not scripting language
09:31:32 <Slereah_> Scripting languages are programming languages.
09:31:36 <whtspc> he's making cross-platform c++ interpreter
09:33:09 <whtspc> k, have to go. Cheers!
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09:43:19 <pgimeno> That PaintFuck looks somewhat interesting. Reminds me of the ant automaton somehow. Guess it could be programmed in PaintFuck.
09:43:48 <Slereah_> Ant automaton? You mean the 2D Turing Machine?
09:44:07 <pgimeno> yes, well, a particular simple one
09:44:33 <pgimeno> IIRC it was like (0>left, 1>right) and toggle on each move
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09:49:11 <whtspc> tigsource member increpare created universal automaton in paintf
09:49:55 <pgimeno> ever thought of writing a JS interpreter to view online?
09:50:18 <whtspc> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~icecube/2008/11/rule-110-in-paintfuck/
09:51:07 <whtspc> yeah, well I'm not very good programmer, but someone is creating webbased application too
09:51:22 <whtspc> it would be very nice to share programs easily online
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10:01:29 <pgimeno> automata rule 110 in Paintfuck (v3) - is there an v3 paintfuck?
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10:05:49 <pgimeno> AnMaster: from http://ded.johnmarkkearney.com/~locus/automata4.txt
10:06:26 <AnMaster> http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.msg110146#msg109146 <-- seems relevant
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10:13:53 <pgimeno> GregorR: What do you do in the console when your local characters are not echoed? I used "reset" in that case but there's no "reset" in bin/
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12:59:16 <pgimeno> http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck.php
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13:11:26 <ehird> pgimeno: I saw paintfuck a while back.
13:13:38 <whtspc> works pretty fast, especially compared to my flash
13:14:28 <ehird> lol, I just called it boring in front of the person who made it
13:14:44 <ehird> also, flash's actionscript actually tends to be faster than regular js in my experience
13:14:51 <whtspc> Could you make it so that it runs like an animation
13:15:11 <pgimeno> ehird: it has one notable merit over most of the languages: there are more than just the test programs written by the creator.
13:15:17 <ehird> that would just be repeating the step() i uguess
13:15:31 <ehird> ehh, now I have to write a version, damnit
13:15:42 <pgimeno> whtspc: I don't know, maybe by setting up a timer
13:15:45 <ehird> can't let YOU guys have all the fun
13:16:00 <ehird> i should do it in haskell. so that i am speshul.
13:16:15 <whtspc> the animating part is the best part of it imo
13:16:21 <Slereah> I can totally let you guys have all the fun.
13:16:32 <whtspc> especially bugs are beautiful to watch :)
13:16:41 <Slereah> I could probably try to do it on the 2D Love Machine 9000, but it would be terrible
13:16:49 <Slereah> Because it only has one layer.
13:16:54 <pgimeno> whtspc: updates are made realtime, just not shown by the browser in realtime
13:17:08 <ehird> pgimeno: add a settimeout
13:17:11 <ehird> after you do an instruction
13:17:16 <ehird> setTimeout(step, 0)
13:17:21 <ehird> that lets the browser redraw et
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13:17:32 <ehird> also, who wants to link me to the flash ver )
13:17:43 <pgimeno> ehird: you could say it in a line
13:17:56 <ehird> pgimeno: this is true. i'm typing weirdly today.
13:18:04 <whtspc> http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.0
13:18:04 <pgimeno> and that's what I said: <pgimeno> whtspc: I don't know, maybe by setting up a timer
13:18:24 <ehird> well i'm not one of those weird people who read things
13:18:46 <ehird> whtspc: flash is cross-platform, isn't it?
13:19:12 <whtspc> i can compile it as swf if you like
13:19:33 <ehird> that'd be cool, I could also start up parallels :p
13:19:33 <whtspc> or do you think it's boooooring :)
13:19:43 <ehird> hey it's boooooooooooooring until i realise the creators in here.
13:19:56 <ehird> then i get interested inadvertently
13:20:06 <Slereah_> A brainfuck derivative? By jove!
13:20:31 <Slereah_> There's something you don't see every day!
13:21:24 <ehird> javascript:function a(){step();setTimeout(a,0);};a()
13:21:29 <ehird> i wrote it for you :P
13:21:57 <whtspc> best program written in paintfuck yet is here: http://ded.johnmarkkearney.com/~locus/automata4.txt
13:22:12 <pgimeno> Slereah_: the novelty is the 2D data being shown visually
13:22:14 <ehird> that could be a lot shorter
13:22:49 <ehird> running eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*s*[n[sw*n]ss*n[se*n]ss*] with my stepper is fun
13:22:56 <ehird> it goes off the edges and stuff
13:23:02 <ehird> i think they'll collide in a second
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13:23:15 <ehird> it's overwriting the old one
13:23:17 <ehird> then putting it back
13:23:19 <whtspc> and i like my own binary counter
13:23:22 <whtspc> *[ss*s[*]n[e*s[*]n]*e[*nn[*n*ss*n]sse]ne[*e]*w*[*w*]*]
13:24:03 <pgimeno> it'd be interesting to see a Gray counter
13:24:53 <ehird> p.s. pgimeno could you put my stepper as a button it's kind of awkawrd pasting it in :P
13:25:14 <ehird> also, whtspc, that counter is neat
13:25:20 <ehird> looks really pretty
13:25:35 <pgimeno> ehird: I'm working in the animator but a bit more complete than that :)
13:25:46 <ehird> pgimeno: how can you be more complete? its all you need :P
13:26:04 <ehird> note: if you put the thing in multiple times it goes faster
13:27:09 <whtspc> Really curious how colours could take part in language
13:27:15 <whtspc> i would love to see it
13:27:30 <whtspc> but there's as far as I know not real use to it
13:27:31 <Slereah_> Well, you could replace 0/1 by 0/255
13:28:02 <ehird> whtspc: easier to do arithmetic
13:28:10 <ehird> just represent them as coloured pixels
13:28:20 <ehird> i.e. it's useful as both a programming convenience and as colouromatic
13:28:52 <Slereah_> Just put the red green blue intensity as two bits each
13:29:11 <ehird> well duh that's just rgb colors
13:29:50 <whtspc> It does in fact make the language more brainfuck than bool/smallfuck then?
13:29:51 <ehird> whtspc: could i have a swf please? :) pgimeno's interp is a bit sketchy as far as animation goes
13:30:16 <Slereah_> Although really, for a nice display, there should probably be one part memory and one part screen.
13:30:25 <Slereah_> Otherwise it will be an epileptic nightmare.
13:30:40 <whtspc> yeah working on it now, can I pack it? I can't upload from here
13:30:41 <ehird> Slereah_: all the ones i've seen look fine
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13:32:14 <ehird> btw, i found out about paintfuck because hideous pointed me to it, i don't know if you know him or something
13:33:09 <whtspc> http://www.willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43043
13:33:31 <whtspc> I only know he's at tigsource too
13:35:45 <whtspc> http://willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43044
13:36:22 <whtspc> better download it to your desktop insted of using it in a browser
13:36:26 <Slereah_> Did you get that host for a sandwich?
13:36:28 <whtspc> then it gets really slow
13:37:25 <fizzie> There's a bfvga somewhere; it uses the 320x200-pixel video memory of that one standard VGA mode as the brainfuck array.
13:37:47 <ehird> ok, now to golf a "white the whole screen"
13:39:28 <ehird> on some forum somewhere
13:39:58 <ehird> whtspc: wait, how does that do each square?
13:40:37 <whtspc> the screen is wrapping (what some of your collegues here find disgusting :))
13:40:39 <ehird> nooga: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.0
13:41:22 <Slereah_> I'm not sure you can compress it much more
13:42:09 <Slereah_> Whatever happened to Unikitten?
13:42:21 <ehird> whtspc: *[[s*]*e*]*
13:44:18 * ehird writes a langton ant
13:45:10 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langton's_ant
13:48:30 <ehird> the problem is that you have to keep track which way you're going
13:48:35 <ehird> so that you know how to turn 90 degrees
13:48:51 <ehird> and it's hard to do that without messing with other squares (Read: impossible)
13:49:01 <ehird> so you'd like have to free every other step
13:49:03 <ehird> and that's just ugly
13:49:46 <pgimeno> whtspc: the animation is done, in case you didn't notice :)
13:50:44 <ehird> Slereah_: hey, yes!
13:50:54 <ehird> whtspc: that's why colours are useful
13:51:03 <ehird> you can still display graphics prettily while passing around hard-to-pass-around internal dat a
13:51:54 <Slereah_> Plus you can make a groovy looking TM.
13:52:16 <ehird> an inverted mover!
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13:54:32 <ehird> whtspc: *[[se*nwnw*se*se]*]
13:55:14 <ehird> pgimeno: whtspc: *[[se*nwnw*se*se]*[ne*swsw*ne*ne]*]
13:55:23 <ehird> i don't know what it does
13:57:10 <whtspc> ehird: I like that one
13:57:18 <Slereah_> Maybe we should make some sort of program that would determine if a particular piece of code halts.
13:57:19 <ehird> Slereah_: maybe after 34587345345 years :P
13:57:25 <ehird> Slereah_: INTERESTING IDEA
13:57:40 <whtspc> like I stated before, bugs can be really beautiful
13:57:53 <Slereah_> I'LL FIRE UP MY ANALYTICAL ENGINE AND TRY IT
13:57:57 <ehird> i really don't t hink it follows any discernable pattern after a while
13:58:16 <ehird> it seems to be eating up the whole grid
13:58:24 <ehird> and pooping out little white dots every now and then.
13:58:27 <whtspc> my binary counter : *[ss*s[*]n[e*s[*]n]*e[*nn[*n*ss*n]sse]ne[*e]*w*[*w*]*]
13:59:22 <whtspc> is also beautiful with a bug in the code: *[ss*s[*]n[e*s[*]n]*e[*nn[*nn<bug*ss*n]sse]ne[*e]*w*[*w*]*]
13:59:23 <ehird> the worm actually -bounces- off squares
13:59:32 <ehird> while leaving its trail
13:59:38 <ehird> and it eliminates squares it bounces off
14:00:19 <ehird> it looks like a turing machine
14:02:19 <whtspc> pgimeno:cool! animation is indeed faster in flash than js
14:02:29 <ehird> *[[s*nn*s*s]*[e*ww*e*e]*]
14:02:33 <ehird> a slight modification of my last one
14:02:45 <ehird> wonder what it'll do when it gets to the edge
14:02:52 <whtspc> I for myself like the fact that cellpointer is at 0,0 at the start
14:03:09 <ehird> *[[s*nn*s*s]*[e*ww*e*e]*]
14:03:15 <ehird> when it g ets to the end
14:03:25 <ehird> it starts obliterating everything DIAGONALLY
14:03:34 <ehird> even though it has no diagonal instructions, it's just the clashing of the two loops
14:03:53 <ehird> wonder what'll happen when it drills the whole screen
14:05:01 <pgimeno> whtspc: I believe that ideally it's an infinite grid and based the origin on that
14:05:14 <ehird> nah, wrapping is what makes some of the programs cool
14:05:37 <ehird> woo, the evil tyranny of the multiple pods has been destroyed, now it seems to be wondering about aimlessly for no reason
14:05:55 <whtspc> I'm actually not really a esolang-type, more a genart-type :)
14:06:07 <ehird> they overlap i'd say
14:06:09 <pgimeno> so, well, "it's just another brainfuck variant, boring..." huh? ;)
14:06:23 <ehird> pgimeno: I stab you with a fork.
14:06:43 <whtspc> got to go, maybe catch you guys later
14:06:57 <pgimeno> whtspc: it'd be nice to get it added to the wiki
14:06:58 <whtspc> questions or suggestions at the tigsource-link?
14:07:11 <whtspc> should I do that myself?
14:07:26 <pgimeno> well, better than letting someone else
14:07:40 <ehird> yeah, just put it on the wiki :)
14:07:43 <whtspc> :) Ok I trhought it's maybe rude to do
14:07:45 * ehird watches his program go
14:07:56 <ehird> and nah, we add our own stuff to the wiki all the time, it's good for getting feedback
14:08:14 <ehird> *[[[n*e*]e*]*[[s*w*]w*]*]
14:08:19 <ehird> takes a while to get properly started
14:08:22 <ehird> but seems to be interesting past that
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14:09:01 <ehird> anyway, what this needs iis a bitmap->program thing, so that we can write e.g. worms
14:09:05 <ehird> that slither around and eat stuff
14:09:08 <ehird> on a predefined map
14:09:21 <ehird> maybe even a Snake AI :P
14:10:51 <pgimeno> it's like... what will it do next?
14:12:15 <ehird> *[[se*e*e*e*e*s*s*s*s*w*w*w*w*n*n*n*n]*]
14:16:10 <pgimeno> this one is nice too: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3710.msg110154#msg110154
14:17:48 <ehird> if i leave it on forever does it wrap around? :O
14:20:21 <ehird> pgimeno: *[e*]*[s*[n*es*]*]
14:21:24 <ehird> moving two lines :P
14:33:16 <ehird> *[e*]*ssssss*[e*]*n*[[*ne*]*se*[*se*]*ne*]
14:48:21 <ehird> *[[ee*]*ss*]*nw*[[*nw*]*[*se*]*[*n*]*[*s*]*[*ne*]*[*sw*]*[*e*]*[*w*]*]
14:48:32 <ehird> om nom nom nom nom
15:07:25 <ehird> *[[e*]*[[e*]e]w*w*s*]*[*e*s*w*n*sese]
15:16:45 <ehird> *[[*n*s*e*w*s*e*s*e]swsw*[*n*e*s*w*n*w*n*w*]*]
15:35:51 <ehird> paintfuck is funnn
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17:21:57 <oerjan> <Slereah_> So don't talk about that time you murdered that prostitute here.
17:22:44 <Slereah_> Hey oerjan, remember that time you murdered that prostitute?
17:23:44 <oerjan> i don't want to talk about it.
17:24:06 <Slereah_> Well played, oerjan, well played.
17:25:31 <oerjan> that blood all over the place stuff can be a bit traumatic.
17:29:19 <oerjan> Asztal: It's pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
17:33:33 <pgimeno> I've made it faster by iterating several times... it seems that Firefox has a lower bound on the ms in setTimeout
17:35:38 <jayCampbell> that's true of every operating system that doesn't call itself "realtime"
17:36:07 <pgimeno> as a drawback, now raising the timeout makes it work "jerky"
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17:37:21 <pgimeno> Asztal: nice pattern for such simple rules :)
17:37:33 -!- M0ny has joined.
17:38:01 <Asztal> even better, *[[*e]*[*n]*[w]*[s]*] seems to generate mazes :)
17:40:41 <Slereah_> There should be a way to speed up the process
17:41:29 <ehird> nesw move in that direction, * flips bit at that point, and [] do what you expect.
17:41:35 <ehird> Flip bit = white or black in the display.
17:41:56 <ehird> warrie: http://willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43044 Interp.
17:42:03 <ehird> If you're on windows, willhostforfood.com/files3/7766096/pain.rar
17:42:41 <ehird> Asztal: do a langton's ant!
17:43:31 <Asztal> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~icecube/tag/paintfuck/ <- that guy did a rule 110 automaton
17:43:46 * warrie reverses the polarity on Wine
17:44:04 <Asztal> I was thinking of doing conway's game of life
17:44:11 <warrie> I'm guessing pain.rar is not actually the interpreter.
17:44:20 <Asztal> though I don't think it's as well suited as I first thought
17:44:26 <ehird> It contains an exe.
17:44:32 <ehird> But, for non-Windows:
17:44:37 <ehird> http://willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=43044
17:44:47 <warrie> Oh, right, .rar is a compression format.
17:44:49 <ehird> Azstal: one char mod of yours - *[[e]*[*n]*[w]*[*s]*]
17:47:15 <ehird> btw, wanna see a spiral?
17:47:28 <ehird> lemme type it out again
17:47:51 <Asztal> hmm, it would probably be hard to do langton's ant because it needs to keep state
17:48:00 <ehird> make the squares 2x2
17:48:06 <ehird> and store the direction state in some of them
17:48:34 <pgimeno> I'm trying a different approach
17:48:46 <pgimeno> keep the state as the program's current position
17:49:43 <ehird> Azstal: wn*[[n*]*s*s[w*]*e*e[s*]*n*n[e*]*w*w]
17:49:47 <ehird> fscks up on the last bit
17:50:47 <oklokok> so paintfuck. i wish i wasn't too lazy to check it out.
17:50:48 <ehird> oklokok try paintfuck
17:51:08 <ehird> paintfuck in one line:
17:51:13 <ehird> nesw, move pointer one that directio
17:51:19 <ehird> * flip pixel at direction white/black
17:51:23 <ehird> [] loop while black
17:51:43 <oklokok> if that's it, i'm almost impressed
17:51:47 <ehird> oklokok: interp: http://willhostforfood.com/files3/7766096/pain.rar
17:52:41 <Asztal> I'm still randomly modifying this one and it's generating some weird stuff: *[[*e]*[*n]*[w*]*[*s]*]
17:53:42 <ehird> wn*[[n*]*s[w*]*e*e[s*]*n*n[e*]*w]
17:53:48 <ehird> that messes itself up
17:53:54 <ehird> into many little spirals
17:54:28 <warrie> Asztal: I wouldn't be one bit surprised if that one were Turing-complete.
17:54:46 <ehird> quite a few look like turing machines
17:54:53 <warrie> It looks like a computer, indeed.
17:54:54 <oerjan> lessee, boolfuck without IO can be trivially imbedded into it not? so TC.
17:55:07 <ehird> it's based on smallfuck
17:55:12 <ehird> the canvas is finite
17:55:20 <ehird> it's needed for most of the drawing trix
17:56:01 <warrie> Is there a way to make the canvas bigger?
17:56:12 <Asztal> there is in the javascript one
17:56:12 <ehird> Not on the fast flash interp
17:56:21 <Asztal> http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/paintfuck.php
17:56:35 <warrie> This needs to be compiled, you know.
17:56:52 <ehird> asz, that one is slow
17:57:29 <Asztal> it did get a lot faster when it was modified to get around setTimeout's restrictions
17:57:41 <Asztal> I haven't tried the .exe, though
17:58:05 <warrie> What's a simple language with addressable memory?
17:58:08 <oklokok> is [] loop while white or while black?
17:58:15 <ehird> the .exe/.swf is the best
17:58:18 <ehird> oklokok: for the swf, while white
17:59:11 <ehird> pgimeno's interp changes it
17:59:29 <oklokok> i'd prefer one where background color is true.
17:59:40 <ehird> oklokok: why? brainfuck starts off all 0
17:59:52 <GregorR> pgimeno: I'm not sure what package provides 'reset' :P
17:59:56 <oklokok> ehird: would just happen to work better for my purpose.
18:00:05 <ehird> oklokok: just white out t he screen:
18:00:12 <oklokok> ehird: yes, guess i should
18:00:31 <oerjan> oklokok: just sprinkle some * around the loop ends, i think?
18:00:35 <GregorR> Nov 29 05:13:53 <pgimeno> GregorR: What do you do in the console when your local characters are not echoed? I used "reset" in that case but there's no "reset" in bin/
18:01:01 <oerjan> *[* and *]* should work like [ and ] but with reversed polarity. i think.
18:01:08 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
18:01:13 <ehird> REVERSED POLAARITYYYYYYYYYYY
18:01:24 <warrie> I think Subleq will work for my purposes.
18:01:42 <pgimeno> GregorR: $ dpkg -S /usr/bin/reset
18:01:42 <pgimeno> GregorR: ncurses-bin: /usr/bin/reset
18:01:45 <oklokok> [ has a side-effect if you jump?
18:01:50 <oerjan> hm there may be something wrong if it moves...
18:02:14 <GregorR> pgimeno: zomg, it's in ncurses? So then I've just been sitting on it :P
18:02:18 <GregorR> OK, I can add that to the env, easy.
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18:02:43 <warrie> Now we need to figure out a reasonably fast way to compile Subleq into Paintfuck.
18:03:10 <warrie> I find the concept rather painful to contemplate.
18:03:40 * warrie suddenly remembers his idea for a Compiler monad in Haskell
18:04:12 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
18:04:22 <pgimeno> btw, if you guys save the page locally, you can modify the animstep() function to add more lines and multiply the speed further
18:04:45 <oklokok> is the swf nicer, the exe can't be stopped?
18:05:00 <oklokok> i mean if you make it infloop, you can't stop it
18:05:09 <ehird> oklokok: the swf is the exe
18:05:14 <warrie> oklokok: empty the program box and hit run?
18:05:16 <ehird> replace the code section with nothing
18:05:40 <oklokok> abort the script, and the program didn't close
18:05:45 <oklokok> okay thanks flash that was nice of you
18:06:06 <oklokok> ehird: what happens on *[] in your end?
18:06:16 <ehird> ah yeah that fails
18:06:25 <ehird> other infloops work
18:07:18 <oklokok> but i don't want to look at the io flickering when i'm coding.
18:07:26 <oklokok> and i don't want to have to remove the code and put it back all the time
18:07:33 <oklokok> it's just not a nice coding experience
18:07:55 <ehird> just remove all the code
18:07:57 <ehird> just put nothing in
18:11:19 <warrie> Subleq has a finite number of infinite registers; Paintfuck has a 2D infinite grid of finite cells.
18:12:42 <ehird> paintfuck grid is finite
18:13:15 <warrie> Paintfuck Infinite Edition has a 2D infinite grid of finite cells.
18:13:25 <oerjan> warrie: subleq has infinite number of cells
18:13:37 <oerjan> i think you're confusing with minsky machine
18:15:33 <oerjan> 2D might help, you can store subleq cells as parallel rows
18:16:08 <warrie> Oh, it's self-modifying.
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18:16:25 <warrie> Okay, so an infinite number of infinite registers.
18:19:41 <oklokok> a bit hard to believe you can do with just one instruction
18:19:51 <oklokok> with just one third of an instruction
18:20:01 <GregorR> oklokok: I meant one of the "infinity"s
18:20:20 <jayCampbell> a few infinitely-large numbers can mimick an infinite number of registers
18:20:23 <oklokok> GregorR: i know what you meant
18:20:39 <oklokok> stop treating me like a child and start treating me like the asshole i am!
18:32:46 <oklokok> glaaaaahhhh i want a step-by-step
18:33:27 <ehird> oklokok: there's one on pgimeonroneroenr's
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18:41:13 <pgimeno> I was considering to add a little trace
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18:49:01 <oklokok> hehe, did rule 110, accidentally pressed c instead of ctrl+x, and removed everything just before final test \o/
18:49:39 <oklokok> now i get to do it again!!
18:49:48 <oklokok> jayCampbell: yeah that doesn't work.
18:50:09 <jayCampbell> oh you're in that flash app not a textarea
18:50:32 <oklokok> well yes, i figured it's too trivial to require anything that fancy
18:51:00 <oklokok> but it's quite verbose as i'm not doing it in a very clever way, just copying the rule pretty straightforwardly
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18:52:05 <warrie> *[[e]*[n]*[w]*[*s]*] starts off moving in a rather complicated manner.
18:53:12 <ehird> you can use ctrl-z
18:53:51 <oklokok> ehird: i can also use ctrl-r for a nop.
18:56:43 <warrie> *[[e]*[*n]*[*w]*[s*]*] is really slow.
18:57:34 <warrie> I think it actually counts in binary up to a power of 2 every once in a while.
18:58:38 <warrie> Yeah. So, um, we'll only ever be able to see this do something *else* if we do some dramatic optimization.
18:59:01 <warrie> ehird, did you know that incrementing something until it reaches a certain value is the same as setting it to that value?
18:59:15 <warrie> Because, um, tell the interpreter that. :-P
19:00:09 <warrie> This program is counting in binary. Someone ought to find a way to make it skip that part.
19:03:27 <oklokok> i don't feel like thinking, how should 110 start
19:03:45 <warrie> By toggling a single cell, I think.
19:04:09 <warrie> #esoteric: Great Thinkers who Don't.
19:05:49 <oerjan> well, you have no 010 in there
19:06:21 <warrie> It means not all possibilities were exhausted, so give us more rows.
19:06:30 <ehird> oklokok: 110 is done
19:06:46 <oklokok> ehird: that's not really a surprise, i just made it.
19:07:12 <jayCampbell> > Police say two handguns recovered at the scene indicate the two men shot each other. No one else in the packed store was killed or injured during the melee.
19:07:21 <oklokok> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p562634344.txt
19:07:25 <oklokok> most of that is just for clarity
19:07:29 <oklokok> i could take more than half out
19:07:43 <oklokok> but anyway, it'd still be pretty bloated, i didn't really try, i'm so goddamn tired atm
19:07:57 <oerjan> _maybe_ they just beat each other with the guns
19:08:46 <oklokok> most of that is just copying things around and nulling parts of the screen, which i could easily do in the actual logic, that's just simpler to read.
19:08:55 <warrie> oerjan: it says "shot each other", though.
19:09:04 <warrie> They must have poked each other with their guns as they shot each other.
19:09:15 <oklokok> ehird: how big is the other one then?
19:09:25 <ehird> oklokok: few pages
19:09:27 <oklokok> anyway, i consider that a trivial task, just wanted to see what it looks like
19:09:41 <oklokok> it's like you told me no use writing a factorial in haskell because someone did that already.
19:10:10 <oklokok> no. the other one was just written by a noob.
19:10:32 <oerjan> oklokok: you _have_ seen http://www.willamette.edu/~fruehr/haskell/evolution.html haven't you? :D
19:10:53 <warrie> I tried to write a threaded, GADT-using factorial in Haskell, but then realized the operations couldn't be defined recursively, as only one copy of each could be running at once.
19:10:58 <oklokok> tbh i'm not sure how to make that code *longer*, that may require more thinking than making it smaller
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19:11:29 <oklokok> oerjan: i dropped off the train at some point. but that was awesome otherwise
19:11:39 <oklokok> ...so yes, or at least i tried
19:11:46 <oklokok> and good point, i guess *it's been done* :)
19:13:50 <oklokok> ehird: can i see the other 110?
19:14:28 <ehird> oklokok: amazing.awesome.com
19:16:09 <oklokok> blergh i can't find it too hard
19:17:35 <oklokok> anyway i think i should go
19:18:01 <Asztal> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~icecube/tag/paintfuck/
19:18:49 <oklokok> well that's quite well-spaced, i doubt it's actually that much longer than mine.
19:19:27 * warrie ponders Subleq in Paintfuck
19:19:39 <oklokok> actually i can't count, i can't open my python.
19:21:07 <warrie> I guess you have rows and columns, and each column is one memory address, and numbers are stored in binary or something. Finite amounts of information can be tossed under it all.
19:22:08 * warrie ponders Paintfuck in Subleq
19:23:45 <warrie> Each Paintfuck column can be two "tapes", each represented by two memory addresses. Manipulating the tapes ought to be easy enough.
19:24:21 <warrie> And then you figure out how to optimize it enough that Paintfuck-in-Subleq-in-Paintfuck and Subleq-in-Paintfuck-in-Subleq don't slow things.
19:24:51 <warrie> Which is really difficult.
19:24:54 <oklokok> lol please someone calculate the number of instructions in the two 110's so i can be at peace... :D
19:25:13 <warrie> oklokok: do you have the two 110s in your possession?
19:25:18 <oklokok> http://ded.johnmarkkearney.com/~locus/automata4.txt
19:25:33 <oklokok> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p562634344.txt
19:26:01 <oklokok> just remove whitespace and count characters, that's just impossible in notepad/wordpad
19:26:53 <oklokok> i'm bruteforcing something in python for the second day now, and only one python IDLE instance can be open at once :d
19:27:03 <oklokok> i mean, sometimes only one can
19:27:10 <oklokok> and when that happens i'd have to close it
19:27:13 <oklokok> but the computation would die
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19:28:55 <oklokok> warrie: i assume you accepted the challenge?
19:30:09 <oklokok> i mean it's not like it takes more than 20 seconds
19:30:29 <oklokok> assuming you have python or an equivalent thingie.
19:31:05 <warrie> Do a web search for "javascript character count".
19:31:22 <oklokok> well i have one on vjn.fi, but i'm not sure whether that counts newlines
19:31:34 <Asztal> oklokok: apparently, his is 951 while yours is 236
19:31:39 <Asztal> but I wouldn't trust this
19:31:52 <Asztal> it doesn't look like 236 to me
19:32:54 <oklokok> is there a scripting language guy here..? :P
19:33:09 <oklokok> or should i just trust you
19:33:15 <oklokok> how could you have gotten it wrong
19:33:24 <Asztal> str.bytes.count{|c| "news*[]".index c.chr}
19:34:17 <oklokok> is that a filter for what to count?
19:34:35 <oklokok> i don't get the index thing.
19:35:06 <Asztal> "abc".index 'b' returns 1
19:35:16 <Asztal> and it returns nil if it wasn't there
19:35:42 <oklokok> the c.chr is the thing that's searched in the array.
19:36:02 <oklokok> okay yeah i need a moment to get into ruby, never really having programmed in it.
19:36:31 <Asztal> I'm currently trying to get out of ruby
19:36:32 <oklokok> (except once did something with ehird's bot, but maybe i just fixed his code and didn't write my own don't remember)
19:37:17 <Asztal> hmm... oh, I included the header
19:37:21 <oklokok> i'm trying to do that for python, mainly because programming has lost its spark, because everything is so goddamn trivial in python.
19:37:41 <oklokok> well k it's not that much longer then
19:37:54 <oklokok> not that i can think of a way to get it at all longer
19:38:12 <oklokok> guess that's a skill you lose with time
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21:45:29 <ehird> We have changed the release model so that instead of focusing on quality and features our release is now defined by timeliness and features. Quality is not regarded to be that important.
21:46:21 <oklokok> quality is just the retarded stepdad of quantity
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22:56:30 <ehird> if you put a cd in a slit-drive thingy
22:56:36 <ehird> and it won't come out
23:00:55 <warrie> Look for a little hole next to the slit drive. If there's one, I stick a paper clip in it.
23:01:45 <warrie> There are fuzzy things at the top and bottom, right?
23:02:03 <warrie> Prop them apart and see if you can see your CD.
23:02:42 <warrie> Make sure you don't lose anything into the drive.
23:02:48 <warrie> That would be expensive of you.
23:02:54 <ehird> too close together, but I know the cd is there.
23:02:57 <ehird> (I poked it with another CD.)
23:03:23 <warrie> Oh. Just grab it and pull it out.
23:03:28 <warrie> I assume your fingers are paper-thin.
23:03:58 <warrie> Use... hmm, I think there are very thin grabber devices, but I'm not sure what they're called.
23:04:09 <ehird> Yeah um I dont'exactly have em to hand.
23:04:13 <warrie> Something a lot like tweezers.
23:04:50 <ehird> Hm. http://guides.macrumors.com/Force_Eject_a_Stuck_CD_or_DVD
23:06:29 <warrie> You've tried everything on the page?
23:06:55 <ehird> apart from the rebooting shit
23:07:16 <warrie> Well, try the rebooting shit.
23:07:39 <ehird> I'd rather not, you see.
23:07:56 <ehird> It wsa my damn virtual machine!
23:08:37 <warrie> Your last resort ought to be using custom-made tools to get it out.
23:09:25 <ehird> last resort: open the computer and yank it out.
23:09:33 <ehird> If it's stuck, smash it.
23:09:39 <ehird> If that breaks the disc drive, get a new one.
23:09:43 <ehird> If I can't, get a new computer.
23:09:48 <ehird> If I can't afford one, become a hermit.
23:10:22 <warrie> Only do that if you can't use custom-made tools to get it out.
23:10:37 <warrie> Though I've always found secular asceticism admirable.
23:10:53 <warrie> At least, I found it admirable from the moment I read the Wikipedia article titled "Asceticism".
23:11:32 <ehird> i'm such a technojunkie, never could do that :D
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23:51:01 <oklokok> cd's are so yesterdays newspapers.
23:52:10 <ehird> oklokok: internet connections are not really fast enough to use them for everything :P
23:52:58 <oklokok> warrie: you don't by any chance know a nice book for understanding curry-howard? i'm not getting there from the wp page, and i like to get my book suggestions from humans.
23:53:05 <oklokok> ehird: sure is such a strong word
23:53:16 <oklokok> but what does it really mean? i mean is it really a word, even
23:53:40 <oklokok> oh dear have i said something uneasifying?!?!?!?
23:54:30 <oklokok> scratch all that, i made no sense
23:54:41 <oklokok> i mean until the warrie highlight, that was proper business.
23:55:38 <oklokok> well, oerjan probably reads at least the highlight parts of logs, so, oerjan, see above
23:57:30 <ehird> oklokok: let's make paintfuck programs
23:59:02 <warrie> You want to understand the Curry-Howard isomorphism?
23:59:21 * warrie ponders his various definitions of "understand"
23:59:23 <oklokok> mainly because it sounds like a trivial concept, but i have no idea about the specifics.
23:59:43 <warrie> Can you tell me what the Curry-Howard isomorphism is?
23:59:54 <oklokok> it's some kinda correspondence.
23:59:56 <warrie> As a question, not a request-because-I-don't-know.