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01:22:08 <MizardX> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p561556134.txt :)
01:28:27 <Sgeo> ValueError: generator already executing
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03:15:42 <GregorR> My cat seems to be hibernating for the winter :P
03:15:58 <GregorR> She woke up to eat today, then went back to sleep. That was her entire day :P
03:19:18 <Sgeo> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/dumbbell this button?
03:23:26 <jayCampbell> would have been cooler if he'd written the sign himself before passign out
03:26:41 <Sgeo> But that would mean he woke up and saw a blank sign?
03:29:04 <Sgeo> Unless he was briefly conscious when going to the other side, and drew on that sign, then woke up forgetting?
03:29:08 <Sgeo> That'd be less dramatic though
03:29:13 * Sgeo pokes Warrigal
03:32:46 <Sgeo> TmsT animations are awesome
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11:50:15 <nooga> don't you know is there a fast way to obtain file's path from inode?
11:53:48 <ais523> an inode can have more than one path
11:54:00 <ais523> and IIRC, there's no way to find its paths apart from by searching the entire filesystem
11:54:08 <ais523> most filesystems can't easily determine the other end of a hard link for that reason
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14:10:40 <ehird> i forgot what i was gonna say
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14:42:31 <oklopol> ^bool can i write stuff here
14:42:42 <oklopol> well anyway, should i watch?
14:43:05 <oklopol> i'm watching family guy, i don't really have anything else atm
14:43:35 <oklopol> seen these episodes like 20 times each, so this is mostly so i don't have to do anything else.
14:44:04 <oklopol> i'm very tired, and i have a lot to read so i can't really sleep the 4 hours i need
14:44:24 <ais523> why not just read, then
14:44:52 <oklopol> i'd have to open the browser.
14:45:17 <oklopol> i doubt you could ever understand just how lazy i can be.
14:46:14 <ais523> oklopol: would it help if I sent you a link over IRC you could click on?
14:46:52 <oklopol> but then there's the password i'd have to type and all that.
14:48:28 <ehird> oklopol: but you're typing on irc
14:49:13 <oklopol> that's not productive. i can do that no matter how tired i am.
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15:22:49 <ehird> http://www.baconbuzz.com/ <-- the bacon reddit now has a theme. and a domain.
15:22:59 <ehird> when will the madness end?!
15:23:29 <ais523> is a bacon reddit a better or stupider idea than lolcode?
15:25:16 <ais523> hmm... someone put an ASCII rickroll on reddit
15:25:20 <ais523> just pasted the lyrics to the song
15:25:25 <ais523> somehow I don't think that counts
15:25:36 <ehird> ais523: WE'RE NO STRANGERS TO LOVE
15:26:35 <ais523> that's hardly a proper rickroll...
15:27:19 <ehird> ais523: sorry, I'll continue
15:27:23 <ehird> YOU KNOW THE RULES, AND SO DO I
15:27:28 <ehird> A FULL COMMITMENT'S WHAT I'M THINKING OF
15:27:31 <ais523> still, video or it doesn't coutn
15:27:31 <ehird> YOU WOULDN'T GET THIS FROM ANY OTHER GUY
15:27:36 <ehird> I JUST WANNA TELL YOU HOW I'M FEELING
15:27:38 <ehird> GOTTA MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND
15:27:43 <ehird> NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP, NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN
15:27:47 <ais523> but then, I suppose you could just stop watching the rickroll
15:27:48 <ehird> ais523: web has /etc/hosts
15:27:58 <ais523> ehird: /etc/hosts is no good at blocking rickrolls
15:28:03 <ehird> also, I recited all of that from memory
15:28:07 <ehird> ais523: youtube.com 127.0.0.1
15:28:08 <ais523> as everyone knows there are an infinite number of rickrolls on the internet
15:28:14 <ehird> would snap most of them
15:28:16 <ais523> but you only have finitely much /etc/hosts space
15:28:22 <ais523> but agreed, most of them are on youtube
15:28:28 <ehird> Rick Astley theory,.
15:28:36 <ais523> come to think of it, it would be pretty hard to write a rickroll that would actually show up on my computer
15:28:44 <ais523> you'd have to use .ogg, SVG or javascript
15:28:52 <ais523> and even then noscript would block all those by default
15:29:04 <ais523> so you'd have to persuade me to let them through as well, although that might not be hard
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15:29:23 <ehird> just use the table-full-of-1px-large-elements trick
15:29:26 <ehird> and a meta refresh
15:29:29 <ehird> dunno about the music, though
15:29:40 <ais523> meta refresh? for /video/?
15:29:52 <ais523> are you mad? no connection has a latency low enough to get a plausible frame rate like that
15:30:06 <ais523> part from possibly if the browser and the server were the same computer
15:30:10 <ehird> ais523: who says it can't be laggy?
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15:30:17 <ais523> it would be a very very slow rickroll
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15:30:26 <ehird> it displays rick astley on yoru screen, and he acts out the video to never gonna give you up
15:30:34 <ehird> the only requirement is something that can be recognized as the song
15:30:40 <ehird> maybe sheet music along the bottom
15:31:05 <ais523> hmm... /me invokes rule 34 on rickrolls
15:31:09 <ais523> although I don't want to see the results
15:31:41 <ais523> that's what rule 34's all about
15:31:51 <ais523> even without the rule, though, "that must exist" is an ingrained reflex
15:31:55 <ais523> rule 34 just formalises it
15:32:00 <ehird> the projection into digital form must surely exist
15:32:02 <ais523> it's inductive reasoning
15:32:41 <ehird> google shows nothing
15:32:59 <ais523> ehird: now everyone's going to wonder why you were googling rickroll porn
15:33:09 <ais523> and Google will show you rickroll-porn-related adverts
15:33:11 <ehird> because of the previous lines? :P
15:33:20 <ais523> because of that one search
15:33:28 <ehird> i hope it shows up on the google big lcd with searches in realtime
15:33:33 <ais523> also, how did you know all those lyrics?
15:33:43 <ais523> from being rickrolled a lot?
15:33:52 <ais523> (I assume you don't actually like the song, although I don't know)
15:34:07 <ehird> being rickrolled a lot, yes
15:34:18 <ehird> although the song is catchy in a kind of horrid, earworm-like "MAKE IT STOP" way
15:35:30 <ehird> ugh, rickroll porn is on youtube. i should have guessed. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
15:35:37 <ehird> [note - thinly veiled rickroll]
15:35:55 <ais523> ehird: is it rickrolling someone to link them to a rickroll when they ask for something rickroll-related?
15:36:14 <ehird> ais523: i think that's a meta-rickroll
15:36:41 <ais523> I suppose the purest case would be:
15:36:45 <ehird> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qmPmIJyi0sc&feature=related what the fuck, a 2 minute long guide on how to rickroll, with actual terrible acting (not a rickroll, I pledge so)
15:36:54 <ais523> <ais523> can you link me to a rickroll? <ehird> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
15:36:58 <ais523> dose that count as rickrolling?
15:37:06 <ehird> you said it as a joke
15:37:12 <ehird> and it was in the context of you actually wanting another video
15:37:15 <ehird> then the meta-irony would kick in
15:37:40 <ais523> well, what if you didn't link me to a rickroll
15:37:44 <ais523> could that be rickrolling?
15:38:02 <ais523> <ais523> can you link me to a rickroll? <ehird> no, but see http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 instead, you might be interested in it
15:38:17 <ehird> ais523: if you expected it to be that video, it's not
15:38:19 <ehird> if you didn't, it is.
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16:44:58 <AnMaster> ais523, much to do in "rl" now?
16:45:28 <ais523> still yes in theory for the rest of the week
16:45:36 <ais523> I'm relaxing a bit today, having just completed one assignment
16:45:48 <AnMaster> also I just realized you can over-engineer "stupid" school tasks even outside programming, or such
16:46:41 <AnMaster> at least here you have to take a short course in either music or painting during high school
16:46:54 <ais523> I took a full GCSE in music, only got a B though
16:47:16 <AnMaster> and it was a task to fill in the missing notes, with mostly 4/4 (a few places with 3/4 too)
16:47:32 <AnMaster> and one was enough free form to allow you to fill in mostly anything you wanted
16:47:50 <AnMaster> but I wonder what the teacher will think
16:48:03 <AnMaster> putting a small 3 over a group of notes is so fun :D
16:48:25 <AnMaster> it messes up the whole timing calculation
16:48:39 <ais523> AnMaster: is it written in 8/8 time?
16:48:52 <AnMaster> ais523, no, in 4/4 sadly, that couldn't be changed
16:49:04 <AnMaster> otherwise I would have used something unusual for it too
16:49:18 <AnMaster> jayCampbell, well it said "put in *notes* to make the timing right"
16:49:36 <ais523> are you messing with grace notes too?
16:49:45 <ais523> because they have a positive length
16:49:52 <ais523> equal to half the length of the next note
16:50:10 <AnMaster> ais523, hm I don't know the English terms for these, just the Swedish
16:50:18 <AnMaster> apoggieturas == the dots after the notes?
16:50:26 <ais523> apoggietura's a type of grace note
16:50:41 <ais523> acciacaturas are zero-length notes
16:50:55 <ais523> whereas apoggieturas have a positive length equal to half the length of the note after, which has its length halved
16:51:47 <AnMaster> no I didn't use any grace notes
16:51:55 <AnMaster> mainly I would have been too confused myself
16:52:16 <oklopol> AnMaster: putting a small 3 over a group of notes is so fun :D <<< wut?
16:52:17 <ais523> put in any chords where different notes in the chords had different lengths?
16:52:30 <ais523> oklopol: it makes each note in the group last 2/3 as long
16:52:34 <oklopol> liek, three-in-place-of-two
16:52:52 <oklopol> that just felt like too much hype over such a common construct
16:52:59 * oklopol used about a hundred of those today
16:53:06 <AnMaster> ais523, one issue is the paper you had to fill in on was rather small print
16:53:11 <AnMaster> so it was hard to fit anything
16:54:47 <AnMaster> I couldn't fit this (just giving lengths): 1/8, 1/8, 1/8, 1/8+dot, 1/16, 1/4, 1/8 <binding line to next bar> | 1/16
16:54:53 <AnMaster> too little space for the first
16:55:17 <ais523> that's why you use grace notes, they're half the physical size
16:56:15 <AnMaster> ais523, couldn't have fitted it in there either, the pencil would have to be sharper than possible for it
16:56:32 <ais523> use an electron microscope inkjet priter, then
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16:58:09 <oklopol> what will I eat this weekend?
16:58:23 <ais523> oklopol: you corrected good grammar to bad grammar?
16:59:24 <AnMaster> oklopol, Something with pasta maybe?
16:59:35 <ais523> oklopol: I suggest lentil soup
16:59:50 <AnMaster> ais523, lentil(?) soup with pasta?
17:00:00 <AnMaster> even though I don't know what lentil is, that sounds awful
17:00:02 <ais523> just lentil soup in general
17:00:18 <ais523> AnMaster: lentils are a type of vegetable, they're sort-of like peas but much smaller and orange
17:00:38 <ais523> also, the shells are poisonous, and they're a pain to get off because they're only about 3mm across
17:00:47 <ais523> so you go to a shop and buy lentil soup which has been made properly
17:00:53 <ais523> it works well with tomatoes
17:01:09 <oklopol> how about something with meats?
17:01:11 <AnMaster> ais523, I prefer home made food
17:01:21 <AnMaster> oklopol, pasta with Swedish meatballs?
17:01:39 <AnMaster> oklopol, no because I ate them
17:01:59 <AnMaster> had it the day before yesterday
17:02:09 <AnMaster> home made pasta and home made meatballs of course
17:02:11 * oklopol waits for ais523 to mention he's vegetarian
17:02:22 <ehird> oklopol: eat your finger, it's delicious
17:02:26 <ehird> yes, your single finger
17:02:29 <ehird> humans only have one finger, y'know
17:02:40 <oklopol> AnMaster: i don't know whether he is. why do you ask?
17:02:52 <ais523> but there are vegetarian things I like anyway, like lentil soup
17:03:00 <ais523> many of them go well with meat
17:03:14 <ais523> ratatouille does, for instance
17:03:14 <oklopol> ais523: oh, right, you just don't eat junk food
17:03:24 <oklopol> aaaanyway, that you eat weirdly! ;)
17:03:27 <ais523> oklopol: yep, pretty rare for me to eat junk
17:03:48 <oklopol> ehird: i'm not a human, i'm a lizard
17:03:50 <ehird> I'm pretty sure eating junk would make you gay. http://instantrimshot.com/ http://pleasemakeitstop.com/ http://atleastoerjanspunswerefunny
17:03:51 <AnMaster> ais523, I don't know what the opposite of vegitarian would be...
17:04:22 <AnMaster> well I'm not that much, but I dislike fruit and such
17:04:30 <ais523> I like fruit, and salad
17:04:44 <ais523> I'm strange, I tend to eat healthily via liking the food, rather than for any health reason
17:05:48 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia
17:07:19 <AnMaster> ais523, I fall in the second category
17:14:12 <oklopol> food doesn't have squat to do with health, the way our bodies evolve over time is all due to the brain.
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17:14:47 <ehird> well yes, but oklopol, you believe in things you think are false
17:15:14 <oklopol> how preposteriorly paradogmatic.
17:15:38 <ais523> that isn't a real English word I don't think
17:15:54 <AnMaster> Did you mean: define:paradigmatic
17:15:55 <ais523> but the feeling I get from it is sort of like next to a strong opinion
17:15:56 <oklopol> maybe not, but you know what i meant.
17:16:01 <AnMaster> No definitions were found for paradogmatic.
17:16:19 <ais523> back-translating from the Latin, it means something along the grounds of "not exactly insisting on a strong opinion, but doing something similar and parallel"
17:16:21 <AnMaster> Did you mean: define:pre posteriorly
17:16:21 <AnMaster> No definitions were found for preposteriorly.
17:16:29 <ehird> paradogmatic: a paragliding, mechanical dog
17:16:30 <ais523> that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense
17:16:48 <ehird> also known as AWESOME
17:16:52 <ais523> AnMaster: "preposteriorly" isn't a real word, but I can back-translate it easily, it means "in a before-afterwards sort of way"
17:17:05 <AnMaster> ais523, that doesn't make sense either
17:17:18 <oklopol> ais523: yes, exactly what i was going for
17:17:19 <ais523> but "before the afterwards" is almost a defined concept
17:17:23 <AnMaster> oklopol, so what did you mean? In common normal words
17:17:38 <ais523> I think oklopol was deliberately coining oxymoronic words to confuse us
17:17:43 <oklopol> AnMaster: actually preposteriorly is there just to explain the latter word.
17:18:09 <ais523> oxymoronic = contradicting itself
17:18:21 <AnMaster> but I was trying to make a word for:
17:18:32 <AnMaster> "coining oxymoronic words to confuse"
17:18:36 <ais523> ehird: "water stupid"?
17:18:36 <oklopol> oh my god. is it healthy to write a song and then listen to it all day in awe
17:18:39 <AnMaster> wouldn't that be "oxymoronication"?
17:18:56 <ais523> how very orogenic of you
17:19:20 <ais523> (btw, that is a real word, but hardly a very common one, it means "with a tendency to create mountains")
17:19:30 <AnMaster> Definitions of orogenic on the Web:
17:19:30 <AnMaster> * Pertaining to deformation of a continental margin to the extent that a mountain range is formed.
17:19:54 <ais523> I didn't, I was just throwing in a rare word because it fit
17:19:58 <ais523> it wasn't even a metaphor or anything
17:19:58 <AnMaster> saying "how very orogenic of you" to oklopol I guess?
17:20:04 <ais523> I just said it in general
17:20:07 <ais523> knowing it was meaningless
17:20:15 <ais523> well, meaningful but pointless
17:20:20 <AnMaster> ais523, would it be "oxymoronication" or "oxymoronicasion"?
17:20:21 <oklopol> i feel pretty orogenic listening to this song.
17:20:31 <ais523> AnMaster: probably the first
17:20:38 <ais523> but I prefer "oxymoronification"
17:20:50 <AnMaster> ais523, ah may indeed be better
17:20:53 * ais523 waits for oklopol to create a mountain
17:21:07 <AnMaster> would it be, "you are oxymoronificing that sentence"?
17:21:13 <oklopol> mountains are massive majestetic beings.
17:21:21 <AnMaster> can't make out what the verb of that noun would be
17:21:45 <ais523> not that that's at all a useful word
17:22:02 <AnMaster> ais523, well would it be "oxymoronificing" or what?
17:22:23 <ais523> the noun was actually derived from that verb
17:23:00 <AnMaster> ais523, a pitty you can't combine any number of words into a single word in English
17:23:35 <oklopol> okay i'll listen to this for the third time, *then* i'll do something more productive
17:23:44 <AnMaster> it is so fun to watch any document editor try to insert hypens in a word spanning three lines
17:23:56 <AnMaster> last I checked even tex has troubles with it
17:24:27 <AnMaster> you can do that in Swedish btw
17:24:41 <oklopol> i recall trying to make word infloop from making automatic reformattings
17:24:57 <ais523> "a word spanning three lines", either you have a large font or a small page or that's worse than German
17:25:04 <ais523> AnMaster: infinite loop, presumably
17:25:10 <oklopol> yes, i use that all the time
17:25:11 <ais523> I often abbreviate it to infiniloop
17:25:13 <AnMaster> ais523, well it was constructed to be long
17:25:28 <ais523> but you can make Word loop quite well by typing =rand(200,99) into it and pressing return
17:25:35 <ais523> that's a finite loop, but on slow hardware it can take a while
17:25:53 <oklopol> ais523: interesting trivia, at least according to our lecturer, that feature was added by a finnish coder.
17:26:21 <ais523> oklopol: presumably it's to generate lots of data quickly as a test
17:26:30 <AnMaster> that you use for the main loop
17:26:37 <AnMaster> would be confusingly similar to if
17:26:40 <ais523> anyway, one thing I've always wondered: why rand
17:26:50 <ais523> it's nothing to do with random number generation at all
17:26:55 * AnMaster ponders a C-like esolang but with all keywords redefined to something unexpected
17:27:07 <ais523> it isn't even random content
17:27:11 <ais523> it's deterministic content
17:27:13 <oklopol> random doesn't have to mean unpredictable.
17:27:20 <oklopol> it doesn't have to be nondeterministic.
17:27:31 <oklopol> it has to be "some random shit".
17:27:41 <AnMaster> 9999999999999999999999999999999999...
17:27:48 <oklopol> (okay maybe a forth time, cuz it's so short)
17:28:43 <oklopol> (i occasionally have some trouble perfecting passages with three main melodies simultaneously, so process is kinda slow)
17:33:11 <AnMaster> oklopol, that sounds like way more advanced than me
17:33:41 * AnMaster has troubles writing music with more than 1 main melody (+ chords)
17:34:09 <ais523> AnMaster: there's a famous Dilbert cartoon about that
17:34:11 <oklopol> well i am fairly good at this, at least as far as pleasing *myself* goes ;)
17:34:34 <ais523> "And this is the random number generator." "Nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine..." "Are you sure that's random?" "That's the problem with randomness, it's hard to be sure."
17:34:57 <oklopol> well, people tend to consider my songs either pretty good or fucking insane, rarely bad.
17:36:19 <oklopol> (oklopol goes "wow the composer hid that one theme here, i didn't even notice on my first three listenings! :ooo" at the song :D)
17:37:09 * oklopol tried to at least stop talking about it
17:37:28 <oklopol> i love talking about my accomplishments, but i hate it when i talk about them.
17:37:50 <oklopol> i wish i could tell everyone about them, see the reaction, then make them forget.
17:41:33 <ehird> oklopol: i get into that paradox a lot
17:41:39 <ehird> praise me but don't remember you praised me k!
17:41:58 <ehird> also, give us the song oklopol
17:43:36 <oklopol> ehird: anyway yeah that's it, obviously i want glory, but i don't want people to think i'm a self-loving egoist mesexual, which i most certainly am.
17:43:54 <oklopol> well yeah okay i'm not that
17:44:04 <Slereah-> I just performed an act of mesexuality
17:44:49 <oklopol> did you... did you just make a masturbation joke? that was so unexpected i just had to make sure i got it right
17:48:09 * oklopol listens to another song of his, and it's much less divine :<
17:48:09 <ehird> oklopol: it's Slereah-, why are you surprised?
17:51:12 <oklopol> ehird: are you trying to sarcastrated my comment?
17:51:29 * oklopol hates failing jokes that are already too complex to understand
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18:09:10 <oerjan> you're in a maze of twisty internet memes, all alike.
18:09:20 <ais523> oerjan: been logreading?
18:10:03 <oerjan> that was just for the topic
18:10:24 <oerjan> otherwise, i'm just starting
18:11:08 <oerjan> i usually log in before reading logs, so i know where to stop
18:14:40 <oerjan> <ais523> but you only have finitely much /etc/hosts space
18:15:18 <ais523> there are an infinite number of rickrolls, how could you block them all?
18:15:26 <oerjan> clearly it should be a system call or something, so you could do it programatically
18:15:35 <Slereah-> Well, he is no stranger to love
18:16:47 <oerjan> hm you could make a dns service
18:17:12 <oerjan> here.domain.put.rickrolltest.com
18:17:57 <oerjan> similar to some anti-spam blackhole lists
18:18:15 <ais523> it's easy enough, just have a static page returning "true"
18:18:21 <Slereah-> Well, you know, you can always make a new rickroll link
18:18:49 <oerjan> i guess a proper test needs the full URL
18:19:04 <oerjan> there's probably a firefox plugin to block rickrolls :D
18:19:12 <ehird> oerjan: http://willitgivemeup.com/youtube.com/?v=3489768f7dsf
18:19:30 <ehird> true = normal page
18:19:32 <ehird> false = rick astley alert
18:19:39 <ehird> it could just analyze all videos it could find
18:19:48 <ais523> http://youtube.com.willitgivemeup.com/?v=3489768f7dsf seems neater to me for some reason
18:20:08 <ais523> hmm... you could have a rickroll-blocking proxy, I suppose
18:20:15 <ehird> ais523: just use greasemonkey
18:20:21 <ais523> and people would send encrypted rickrolls to try to get round it
18:20:24 <ehird> when you hit a page, it hits willitgivemeup.com
18:20:32 <ehird> admittedly, that's a privacy issue
18:20:37 <ehird> you could restrict certain domains, I guess
18:20:40 <ais523> what if the page checked for the IP
18:20:43 <ehird> it wouldn't hit it quick enough
18:20:53 <ehird> ais523: make it download the video locally
18:20:56 <ehird> then send it for analysis
18:20:56 <ais523> and served different content depending on whether it came from willitgivemeup.com or a user's main part
18:21:15 <ehird> your computer downloads the video
18:21:16 <ais523> also, how do you tell programmatically if a video is a rickroll or not
18:21:19 <ehird> then willitgivemeup.com analyzes it
18:21:32 <ehird> ais523: well, just do some analysis to see if it's the video or a trivial changing of it
18:21:37 <ehird> and then check the audio
18:21:38 <ehird> try and analyze it
18:21:51 <oerjan> http://rickrolldb.com/
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18:22:18 <ais523> oerjan: is that a page full of known and suspected rickrolls?
18:22:31 <ais523> for all I know, it's actually a rickroll itself, designed to con people looking for anti-rickroll tactics
18:22:43 <ais523> well, if it is, it probably uses Flash
18:22:59 <Slereah-> Anyway, what's your problem with rickrolls?
18:23:11 <oklopol> i think it's a very neutral song
18:23:20 <ais523> so, why are all of them voted about 60% rickroll?
18:23:29 <oklopol> it's not good, it's not bad, it's not annoying, it's not catchy, it's not funny, it's not weird
18:23:35 <oerjan> hm their voting system is broken right
18:23:40 <oklopol> yeah, i wondered about that too
18:23:41 <ehird> ais523: the kind of people who would vote on such a thing are also huge jerks who like people being rick rolled, I assume
18:24:45 <oerjan> oklopol: so what you are saying is we need to start weirdaling people instead
18:25:32 <ais523> maybe we should invent an INTERCAL version of rickrolling
18:25:36 <oerjan> surprisingly that term does not exist yet
18:25:38 <ais523> heh, I typoed that as ickrolling
18:25:45 <ais523> which would be a good name for it
18:26:10 <ais523> and I didn't even have the pun in mind when I started typing, must be my fingers typing puns by themselves
18:26:20 <ais523> like the time I typoed "I hope" as "i hope" twice when talking to Warrigal
18:26:30 <ais523> in a context where "ihope" would have made sense
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18:27:08 <oerjan> ickrolling would work great on programming forums
18:27:26 <ais523> the question is, can we generate enough INTERCAL to make it work?
18:27:31 <ais523> or would it be the same program each time?
18:27:48 <oerjan> "Your problem can be solved with this little code snippet: [link]"
18:28:18 <ais523> would the snippet always be a correct solution to the problem?
18:28:31 <ais523> or just any old snippet, maybe obfuscated INTERCAL printing "You've been ickrolled!"
18:28:37 <ais523> or "Just another ickroller,"
18:29:11 <oerjan> oh an intercal program printing the lyrics
18:29:44 <ais523> printing the whole lyrics would be a pretty massive INTERCAL program
18:29:45 <oerjan> would be a bit too obscure though, since most people wouldn't get to actually running it
18:29:50 <ais523> unless it was an easter-egg in the compiler
18:30:05 <oklopol> just take something undefined and put it there
18:30:06 <ais523> yapp could generate an ickroll pretty easily
18:30:10 <ais523> but it would be obviously generated code
18:30:12 <oklopol> i'm sure intercal has lots of that
18:30:21 <oklopol> hmm. that hard to output :|
18:30:28 <ais523> oklopol: INTERCAL has no strings
18:30:47 <ais523> so you have to initialise the arrays with numbers somehow
18:30:51 <ais523> I suppose you could use compression
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18:31:02 <ais523> and save space by using Baudot rather than ASCII, rickrolling is mostly letters
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18:31:23 <ais523> you could fit 5 chars to the 32-bit variable that way
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18:32:39 <oerjan> 32-bit is not that interesting since you only have 16-bit numerals
18:32:49 <ais523> oerjan: you can easily mingle them, though
18:32:57 <ais523> and store in a 32-bit array
18:33:03 <oerjan> yeah but it won't shorten the program
18:33:04 <oklopol> the lyrics are, like, song lyrics, they're pretty long :D
18:33:42 <ais523> DO;1SUB#1<-#12345$#54321 is shorter than DO,1SUB#1<-#12345DO,1SUB#2<-#54321
18:33:51 <ais523> not to mention that the second version needs twice as many pleases
18:34:20 <ais523> the shortest known INTERCAL quine has no whitespace at all IIRC
18:34:33 <ais523> INTERCAL doesn't actually need it, it's just there for readability
18:34:39 <oerjan> that's sort of obvious then
18:35:21 <oerjan> so is that mingle into 32-bit the definite shortest way of initializing?
18:35:41 <ehird> someone beat me to making a low-tech rickroll
18:35:41 <ais523> I haven't seen a shorter way, although that doesn't mean there isn't one
18:35:43 <ehird> http://tobi-x.com/kate_moss_nude/
18:35:51 <ehird> marquee, background gif, and embedded midi
18:36:16 <ais523> oh, and marquee for the lyrics
18:36:31 <ais523> what does the marquee display, if not lyrics?
18:36:38 <ehird> "You've been Rick Rolled"
18:36:49 <ais523> it should display the lyrics, ideally in time with the music
18:37:09 <ehird> that would be hard
18:37:51 <ais523> not really, given that only one thing supports marquee you just time to its implementation
18:37:57 <ais523> by inserting extra spaces, probably
18:40:16 <oerjan> <ehird> ais523: if you expected it to be that video, it's not
18:40:27 <oerjan> ouch, russell paradox rickrolling
18:42:07 <oerjan> oklopol: it's a reference to the logs
18:42:37 <oerjan> a rickroll being a rickroll only if you don't expect to be rickrolled
18:43:04 <ais523> yes, if you ask someone for a rickroll, and they give you a rickroll, have you been rickrolled?
18:44:15 <oerjan> <ais523> oklopol: I suggest lentil soup
18:44:24 <ais523> oerjan: what about it?
18:44:32 <oerjan> i guess historically the advent time is a lent
18:44:43 <oerjan> so lentil soup is very appropriate
18:44:43 <ais523> ah, yes, although I don't know if there's a connection
18:44:50 <ehird> that was AWFUL, oerjan
18:44:54 <ais523> besides, Lent's before Easter, not Christmas
18:45:00 <oerjan> ehird: it was not an intended pun
18:45:02 <ais523> at least, the big official one everyone talks about
18:45:18 <ehird> http://qntm.org/?lent Yay! Lent!
18:45:26 <oerjan> well there were many small ones. almost every friday, i think
18:45:59 <oerjan> i guess the catholics may still recommend it
18:46:04 <ehird> [[Lent was invented in 1809 by an Englishman named Wilhelm Lent. It was originally a forty-day diet plan, during which people would forgo certain foods in order to lose weight for Easter. On Sundays these restrictions were temporarily lifted and you could eat anything you liked; that's why Sundays don't count as part of Lent (see above). Wilhelm Lent is also the inventor of lentils!]]
18:46:11 <ehird> [[Sundays these restrictions were temporarily lifted and you could eat anything you liked; that's why Sundays don't count as part of Lent (see above). Wilhelm Lent is also the inventor of lentils!]]]]
18:46:23 <fizzie> Hm, I wonder how close to singing you could get with a midi file, without cheating with custom instruments or anything. GM has a rather nice set of instruments, some of which have rather predictable waveforms, and you can additively mix at least 24 voices together and change them quite often, and other tricks.
18:48:33 <oerjan> hm i guess lent is not the correct term for other periods, but fasting
18:53:41 * oerjan discovers to his surprise that "lent" and "lentil" are not really related words
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18:59:32 <AnMaster> <ais523> AnMaster: there's a famous Dilbert cartoon about that <-- guess what I quoted...
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19:01:23 <oerjan> c.1325, "a strike or blow," dialectal variant of M.E. dint (q.v.); sense of "indentation" first recorded 1565, apparently infl. by indent.
19:01:24 <fizzie> That selfsame Dilbert cartoon was last talked about on this channel 2008-10-17, with both AnMaster and ais523 present.
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19:02:06 <oerjan> O.E. dynt "blow dealt in fighting" (especially by a sword), from P.Gmc. *duntiz. Phrase by dint of ... "by force of, by means of," is c.1330.
19:02:06 <AnMaster> fizzie, um... why did you bother to check
19:02:44 <fizzie> AnMaster: Why not? I'll do that next time, too. :p
19:02:53 <oerjan> 1594, from M.Fr. dental "of teeth," from L. dens (gen. dentis) "tooth," from PIE base *dont-, *dent- (see tooth).
19:03:55 <oerjan> especially since "tooth" is the cognate of the last one
19:09:12 <oerjan> <ais523> also, the shells are poisonous, and they're a pain to get off because they're only about 3mm across
19:09:40 <ais523> oerjan: this is from memory, it may be exaggerated
19:09:49 <ais523> besides which, I've never seen a whole lentil either
19:09:54 <ais523> only the factory-processed forms
19:14:20 <oerjan> "I have never seen a lentil plant, never met anyone involved in lentil agricultural production, or even seen such a person on television, so I can only conclude that lentil's are actually a manufactured food product, possibly made from meat by-products. The plant origin is part of the marketing campaign, akin to Keebler crackers being baked by elves in a hollow tree. Until I see photographic evidence to the contrary, I will beleive that a lentil plan
19:14:32 <oerjan> that's bound to have been cut off somewhere
19:15:12 <oerjan> a lentil plant is a brick structure with smoke-billowing chimneys, somewhere in the Chicago stockyard district.
19:15:43 <ais523> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lentil_diseases
19:15:46 <ais523> wow, only on Wikipedia
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19:24:40 <oerjan> "This bad reputation may possibly be. due to the substitution of the seeds of the bitter vetch or tare lentil,, Ervum Ervilia, a plant which closely resembles the true lentil in, height, habit, flower and pod, but whose seeds are without doubt possessed of deleterious properties - producing weakness or even paralysis of the extremities in horses which have partaken of them.. The poisonous principle seems to reside chiefly in the bitter seed coat, and
19:25:43 <oerjan> ... and can apparently be removed by steeping in water ...
19:26:19 <oerjan> (http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Lentil)
19:26:41 <ais523> ok, so there's a plant which looks very like a lentil with a poisonous shell
19:26:50 <ais523> at least that would explain why I thought lentil shells were poisonous
19:28:06 <oerjan> http://elonstruths.blogspot.com/2006/10/its-in-blood.html is sort of amusing
19:28:39 <oerjan> (about poisonous lentils, but...)
19:30:09 -!- jayCampbell has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | esolentil.
19:32:30 <oerjan> <oklopol> well can you hand me some
19:32:49 <oerjan> swedish meatballs can be found at your nearest IKEA restaurant
19:34:55 <Slereah-> I know, I saw the Simpsons episode too
19:35:04 <oerjan> <AnMaster> ais523, I don't know what the opposite of vegitarian would be...
19:35:34 <Slereah-> Or like a dude who would eat anything but plants.
19:35:48 <Slereah-> Like bricks and metal and large clouds of ionized gas
19:36:10 <fizzie> For the hard-core anti-vegetarian: eat only animals that eat other animals.
19:36:22 <oerjan> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitlew8o9d7bzvtia
19:36:30 <oerjan> (standard tvtropes warning)
19:36:40 <Slereah-> That means there would be less carnivore!
19:36:45 <Slereah-> Hence less animals being eaten
19:36:59 <AnMaster> Slereah-, err it would be like anti-vegan
19:38:02 <Slereah-> To consume only products derived from animals?
19:38:10 <Slereah-> Like instead of salt, you use bacon bits
19:38:29 <ehird> what about baconsalt.com
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20:46:38 <oklopol> hmm. Slereah- has a point, maybe an anti-vegetarian should only eat vegetarian humans
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21:55:18 <jayCampbell> <oerjan:#esoteric> <AnMaster> ais523, I don't know what the opposite of vegitarian would be...
21:55:28 <ais523> no, omnivores eat everything
21:55:34 <ais523> we were wondering what ate just meat specifically
21:55:38 <ais523> I think it's "carnivore"
21:56:03 <ais523> you drink water not eat it, I think
21:56:14 <jayCampbell> what about fish who eat those critters that aren't plants but aren't animals
21:57:32 <ais523> IIRC, fungi aren't plants
21:57:46 <ais523> although a fungivore could equally well be a Befunge-eater
21:57:52 <ais523> or other funges in general
21:58:03 <ais523> jayCampbell: zooplankton are animals, aren't they?
22:01:00 <Slereah-> It's more of a "Pedonecrophilia"
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22:06:57 * oerjan detects a time anomaly
22:07:39 <Slereah-> It may be a time quantum flux with neutrinos. Phase.
22:08:07 <oerjan> Slereah-: What do you think it may be?
22:08:31 <oerjan> "Zooplankton are the heterotrophic (sometimes detritivorous) type of plankton."
22:09:26 <Slereah-> Well, if it's got more than one cell, it's an animal. Or a mushroom, but there's the zoo in there.
22:10:18 <oerjan> animals are a kingdom, nowadays. there are lots of other heterotrophs
22:11:25 <Slereah-> But how many that are multicellulars?
22:11:33 <Slereah-> There's pretty much only mushrooms.
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23:48:54 * oerjan sics a reptile on Warrigal
23:50:02 <Warrigal> So, we had prokaryotes, and then really weird stuff happened and we got eukaryotes.
23:50:28 * oerjan swats Warrigal with an invertebrate
23:50:57 <ehird> oerjan: stop being violent :P
23:50:58 * oerjan finally slaps Warrigal with a fish
23:51:09 <oerjan> i'm just being paraphyletic
23:51:09 <Warrigal> Did every proto-eukaryote that didn't have all the features of eukaryotes die out?
23:52:38 <Warrigal> Do they have a well-defined last common ancestor?
23:52:58 <ehird> "Haskell was made by some really smart guys (with PhDs). Work on Haskell began in 1987 when a committee of researchers got together to design a kick-ass language."
23:53:02 <ehird> I like this tutorial already.
23:53:10 <Warrigal> (Or "concestor", I should say.)
23:53:30 <ehird> [[I don't have a Mac but I've heard that if you have MacPorts, you can get GHC by doing sudo port install ghc. Also, I think you can do Haskell development with that wacky mouse with one button, although I'm not sure.]]
23:54:59 <oerjan> Warrigal: i think everything has, the question is whether it was a fish
23:56:47 * Warrigal looks up horizontal gene transfer to see if a human can get genes from a dog
23:58:22 <Warrigal> Since Wikipedia doesn't say, the answer is yes.
23:59:22 <oerjan> actually i just a moment ago read that tree of life applies cleanly to eukaryotes because they don't have such things