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04:08:01 <GregorR> JSMIPS crashes TraceMonkey 8-D
04:13:38 <Warrigal> Darn, irssi doesn't have infinite scrollback.
04:14:45 * Warrigal scrolls back before the beginning of time, thereby ending up at the end of time, where the history of the world is obscured by noise caused by the few remaining charged particles
04:16:22 * Warrigal scrolls back forward to Fermat's time
04:16:47 <Warrigal> Darn. His proof got truncated because the message was more than 512 characters long.
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05:38:27 <oklopol> Warrigal: you can change your nick as much as you want, but you cannot hide saying things like that.
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07:54:00 <AnMaster> Warrigal, so they invented pastebins after Fermat's time then?
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12:52:42 <ehird> you USE the counter??
12:55:17 <ehird> i'll get it back up sometime
12:55:52 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol.
12:56:00 <oklopol> it's a good game, you see.
13:05:48 -!- ehird has set topic: nice blog. i thoguht you were a website though. im a cracker. i dont know how to hack. are you a hacker or cracker? | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric.
13:06:52 <ehird> oklopol: what I'll do is make version 4
13:07:04 <ehird> because, srsly, who doesn't want charts of their clickering?
13:07:28 <ehird> oklopol: would you mind starting from 0 if you got FUCKING CHARTS?!?!?!
13:08:58 <oklopol> that'd be awesome, no, i wouldn't mind
13:10:22 <ehird> oklopol: the problem is scaling, i mean, it's hard to imagine a good storage system for this
13:10:37 <ehird> an in memory buffer of like 1000 clicks
13:10:43 <ehird> that's appended to the main file every now and then
13:10:55 <ehird> and the file's split into liek 10MB chunks
13:11:09 <ehird> dunno how to nicely index stuff so that you can go to a user page and get infos fast
13:12:02 <ehird> haha, my little counter will revolutionize databases :>
13:14:32 <ehird> oklopol: basically
13:14:43 <ehird> i have to invent a hyper-fast append-only storage system
13:14:49 <ehird> that has indexes on just about every column
13:15:05 <ehird> and it has to scale to over 200 appends per second
13:15:14 <ehird> (that's what the original counter peaked at, 200 clicks/sec)
13:15:22 <ehird> it could go even higher
13:15:29 <ehird> it has to support billions and billions of rows
13:16:01 <oklopol> ehird: stop asking me questions
13:16:11 <oklopol> you know i can't answer them.
13:16:28 <oklopol> "everything that's blue is type information"
13:17:08 <ehird> oklopol: i'm calling the storage system revolution now
13:18:13 <oklopol> "the yellow boxes are more like placeholders"
13:19:01 <oklopol> i'm not sure, i'm attending this lecture, but i'm not really interested in the whole subject, so i just pick up random fragments and irc.
13:20:46 <ehird> people = revolution.Schema(
13:20:46 <ehird> ['id', revolution.INDEXED],
13:20:46 <ehird> ['name', revolution.INDEXED],
13:21:05 <ehird> stores in data/people.{1,2,3,4,...,100} etc
13:22:24 <oklopol> hmm, do you think i'd manage to read real world haskell, or would i just burn it after a few pages?
13:24:00 <ehird> oklopol: it's pretty good
13:24:04 <ehird> enterprisey whizbang haskell
13:24:21 <ehird> it's: here's how you structure a haskell program that uses the interwebs and file io and stuff nicely while still being all neatfunctional
13:24:43 <ehird> the people who wrote it are #haskell regulars and stuff, some work at galois (company thing that uses haskell).
13:24:55 <oklopol> hmm. okay well spoken, i don't think i need more.
13:25:13 <oklopol> i mean yeah k i'll read it
13:25:32 * oklopol is desperately trying to leave python :P
13:26:02 <ehird> oklopol: yeah python is really easy to do shit in but it's just so regular
13:27:41 <oklopol> yes. and it's much too verbose for my taste.
13:27:54 <oklopol> i mean for algorithm-related stuff
13:28:10 <oklopol> which is why i'd like to learn stuff like J
13:28:20 <oklopol> "so, inheritance, do you guys know this concept?"
13:28:44 <oklopol> the lecturer is somekinda businessman, not our usual prof
13:28:58 <oklopol> i bet he's a noob, but i haven't been listening
13:30:01 <ehird> one thing I've learned is that oop sucks, basically.
13:30:30 <oklopol> inheritance is a pretty wild horse yes.
13:30:55 <ehird> oop people are just idiots, they say that encapsulation and hiding is important and objects cant peek at others internals
13:30:58 <ehird> but inheritance is exctly that
13:31:28 <oklopol> well that depends, some believe inheritance should be done entirely in an encapsulativousal fashion
13:32:26 <oklopol> anyway true, peeking inheritance doesn't make much sense unless you're writing the inheritance tree as a whole.
13:35:08 <oklopol> hmm. okay now i have absolutely no idea what's happening, i could just as well just get out :)
13:35:36 <ehird> self.cache_log.append(args)
13:36:29 <ehird> A fast append-only storage system that stores a ton of stuff
13:36:29 <ehird> in memory before serializing it to chunked files.
13:36:29 <ehird> Does indexes galore.
13:36:36 <ehird> callsin' it revolution after your nonsense line
13:36:38 <ehird> using it for the counter
13:36:42 <ehird> as it keeps a log of every click
13:36:49 <ehird> and i need lots of indexes for statistics
13:37:05 <ehird> when you just said revolution out of nowher
13:37:25 <oklopol> no in fact i think it was good context for dat.
13:37:54 <ehird> 2 seconds to add a million records, cool, though its just an array append :P
13:37:57 <ehird> and I need to do the serialization
13:38:34 <oklopol> yes it's not very surprising you can do nothing to a lot of data in no time
13:41:09 <ehird> oklopol: its doing things with a list
13:42:18 <oklopol> yes, a sophisticated flavor of nothing
13:43:00 <ehird> hmm oklopol how would you code an index?
13:43:07 <ehird> how would you serialize a mapping of
13:43:16 <ehird> so that you can access it without loading it all into memor
13:43:21 <ehird> and without searching through the whole file
13:44:01 <oklopol> don't ppl usually use b for file stuff
13:45:15 <oklopol> i think that's the canonical database data structure
13:45:23 <ehird> oklopol: yeah how would you write one of thems out to disk so you can lookup without reading in the whole file, personally?
13:45:40 <ehird> well, multiple b-trees, i'm splitting files every now and then
13:47:16 <ehird> oklopol: yah but how would you
13:47:21 <ehird> i can't think of an eleganty way
13:49:47 * oklopol mutters something about a higher-level operating system
13:50:14 <ehird> oklopol: i feel you bro :{
13:50:31 <oklopol> a b-tree isn't that hard to make serialized. that's pretty much how it was designed
13:50:54 <ehird> i can't think how to look up without scannign through the whooooooooooole tree
13:50:57 <ehird> hash tables work fine in memory
13:50:58 <oklopol> but i haven't tried it, can't really guide you mucho.
13:51:03 <ehird> but i can't think how they'd work nice just scanning on discccc
13:51:24 <oklopol> err. with a b-tree in the file, you'd just have to traverse the tree down once, log n
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14:43:20 <ehird> hokay record format:
14:43:43 <ehird> i can't use \0\0 as terminator and \0 as sep because that doesn't allow blank fields
14:43:46 <ehird> oh well, I'll just use \0 and \1
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14:45:40 <Slereah_> I just stole a Matlab module from my university :o
15:02:50 <Slereah_> Well, it's not really stealing
15:02:56 <Slereah_> Considering that they still have it
15:09:05 <ehird> I am calling piracy that from now on
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16:04:23 <ehird> I want a filesystem that versions absolutely everything automatically. :(
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16:49:23 <ehird> <8b>5dff5ba9-d4e0-4cc8-a70d-7ad97616ec12<0>name<0>$2a$12$2FavSY4z8BQ1.S7gUtp1ye0W/.HyHngFpxfQU76mrkSDv5InU1OZ.<0>penguinofthegods@gmail.com<0>2008<0>12<0>4
16:49:31 <ehird> ^ where <hex> is that unprintable char
16:49:45 <ehird> multiple items, of course, just being stuck after each other:
16:49:48 <ehird> <8b>5dff5ba9-d4e0-4cc8-a70d-7ad97616ec12<0>name<0>$2a$12$2FavSY4z8BQ1.S7gUtp1ye0W/.HyHngFpxfQU76mrkSDv5InU1OZ.<0>penguinofthegods@gmail.com<0>2008<0>12<0>4<8b>5dff5ba9-d4e0-4cc8-a70d-7ad97616ec12<0>name<0>$2a$12$2FavSY4z8BQ1.S7gUtp1ye0W/.HyHngFpxfQU76mrkSDv5InU1OZ.<0>penguinofthegods@gmail.com<0>2008<0>12<0>4
16:49:58 <ehird> (it's <length>record<0>record<0>...)
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17:10:28 <ais523> ehird: "revolution" sounds like a Windows codename version
17:10:45 <Slereah> Is the revolution that it works okay?
17:10:54 <ehird> instantrimshot.com
17:11:35 <ais523> ehird: why do you keep writing that?
17:11:45 <ehird> ais523: because Slereah made a terrible joke?
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17:11:59 <ais523> ehird: yes, but so far it's made no sense in any context, why the .com?
17:12:05 <ehird> ais523: http://instantrimshot.com/
17:12:18 <ehird> (it's a red button that, when clicked, produces an instant e-rimshot at your convenience.)
17:12:26 <ais523> if it requires flash, no point in visiting it
17:13:08 <Slereah> ais523, why do you hate freedom?
17:13:49 <ais523> Slereah: I may be happier with Flash once there's an alternative implementation that isn't the biggest cross-platform security hole in existence
17:13:57 <ehird> instantrimshot.com
17:14:03 <ais523> not really sure if it's ready yet
17:14:11 <ehird> thus the instantrimshot.com
17:14:15 <ais523> besides, the sort of websites that use Flash aren't the sort of websites I like ot visit
17:14:22 <ais523> and also, SVG was standardised first
17:14:25 <ais523> and does all the same things
17:14:36 <ais523> just people insist on using it only as a vector graphics format for some reason
17:14:40 <ehird> and is 100000x slower in every modern browser :P
17:14:54 <ais523> ehird: well, there's a huge problem with SVG, which is that nobody implements it properly
17:15:02 <ais523> ironically, the only sane implementation I've seen was by Adobe
17:15:23 <ais523> but they stopped supporting it after a while, and it was never open-sourced
17:16:13 <Slereah> So that you may see our awesome flash videos.
17:16:34 <ais523> too busy right now, also Flash is big and complex and inherently insecure
17:16:50 <ais523> I mean, what sort of format designed for websites should be able to use the client's webcam by default?
17:17:05 <ais523> Flash is sort of like Java with a worse security model, in terms of its capabilities
17:17:06 <Slereah> Well, it doesn't have to use it.
17:17:14 <Slereah> I mean, was it able to do that ten years ago?
17:17:21 <Slereah> I'm not sure webcam existed back then
17:18:21 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:18:31 <Slereah> Maybe you should like get an old version of Flash :o
17:18:54 <Slereah> Although I'm not sure you could fit it in Firefox. But then again, you can just download the flash and watch it.
17:19:10 <ehird> it asks permission for webcam
17:19:34 <Slereah> So that you may see our hilarious links!
17:19:46 <Slereah> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/shii
17:19:51 <Slereah> HEY GUYS, REMEMBER THE INTERNET?
17:20:52 * oerjan vaguely recalls something about it
17:21:19 <Slereah> oerjan : It was more commonly known as the "Information super highway"
17:21:26 <Slereah> Or the "World Wide Webeverse"
17:21:33 <oerjan> ah yes it was something Al Gore invented
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17:22:28 <ais523> replacing the internet with a big truck would save on bandwidth
17:22:42 <Slereah> Come on dude, the internet isn't a truck.
17:23:29 <oerjan> it shares the tubes with the sewer system
17:23:40 <oerjan> sometimes there is overflow, thus we get spam
17:24:12 <Slereah> The internet is nothing but a statistical experiment.
17:24:26 <oerjan> it gradually worsens as global warming causes sea level to rise, increasing flood incidents
17:24:30 <Slereah> what would happen if a million monkeys typed on a million typewriters?
17:25:11 <oerjan> Slereah: alas, it's logarithmic, just 12*log 10 increase
17:25:21 <oerjan> compared to a single monkey
17:25:42 <oerjan> for a moment i assumed the monkeys had a million typewriters each
17:27:13 <Slereah> But they have only four hands, oerjan
17:27:37 <oerjan> only spammers have that, i don't think they have produced any shakespeare yet, unless they copied it
17:28:19 <Slereah> Do you know those spams with random words?
17:28:38 <oerjan> but still, the problem is it's logarithmic
17:28:52 <ais523> the CAPTCHA on Wikimedia often ends up poetic
17:29:03 <oerjan> doubling the number of monkeys only increases by 1 bit the length of useful results
17:29:07 <Slereah> http://balinares.livejournal.com/54645.html
17:30:41 <oerjan> hm a spam poetry contest
17:30:51 <oerjan> the winner gets 1 month off his jail time
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17:31:36 <oerjan> oerjan> hm a spam poetry contest
17:31:41 <oerjan> oerjan> the winner gets 1 month off his jail time
17:32:03 <ais523> Slereah_: so are you wearing a dunce cap or a pointy hat, or are you just angry
17:33:17 * oerjan wants a mitochondrial particle accelerator
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17:37:50 <oerjan> you're thinking of midichlorians
17:40:46 <oerjan> <ehird> I want a filesystem that versions absolutely everything automatically. :(
17:40:59 <ehird> uh oh oerjan pun time
17:41:14 <oerjan> no, just ancient memory
17:41:48 <oerjan> i believe nvg has an OpenVMS server somewhere for the nostalgic members
17:42:46 <oerjan> when i joined university, the computer system was VMS
17:43:17 <oerjan> and nvg's first server was a VAX running Ultrix
17:45:20 <oerjan> so i logged onto my account on the university's VMS system to connect to that server's MUD. that's how i got started on the internet.
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18:14:33 <Slereah> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
18:15:17 <oerjan> maybe you could use one of those bouncer thingies?
18:15:52 <oerjan> like ehird and ais523 do/used to do
18:16:05 <ehird> i'll give Slereah an account if he wants
18:16:22 <Slereah> I have no idea what you're talking about
18:16:23 <ais523> Slereah: they avoid quitjoin-spamming channels when your connection goes wrong
18:16:41 <ais523> oerjan: I'm still on a bouncer
18:16:45 <ais523> Slereah: basically, you connect to a server
18:16:49 <ais523> and it connects to IRC on your behalf
18:16:52 <ehird> Slereah: you connect to an irc server
18:16:54 <ehird> that's always connected
18:16:57 <ehird> so you never go offline
18:16:59 <ehird> and when you reconnect,
18:17:01 <ais523> even if you become disconnected from it, it's still connected to Freenode
18:17:03 <ehird> everything you missed gets sent back at you
18:17:11 <oerjan> ais523: i just had this impression i've seen you not on one recently
18:17:21 <ehird> oerjan: when he's using mibbit?
18:17:25 <ais523> oerjan: I've been on one all along, explaining why I haven't disconnected for ages
18:17:35 <ais523> even when I've been on mibbit as ais523_, ais523's still connected from the bouncer
18:17:38 <ais523> just I'm not connected to it
18:17:52 <Slereah> Well, I guess it would be nice.
18:18:24 <ehird> Slereah: the downside is that I get access to your nickserv password :-P
18:18:34 <ehird> that can be avoided
18:18:41 <ehird> by just doing it manually
18:18:50 <ehird> but i could just log in as you anyway. although i haven't done that once.
18:19:02 <Slereah> I have no nickserv password
18:19:16 <ehird> sweet, I'ma impersonate you next time you drop offline
18:19:19 <Slereah> Freenode doesn't require you to identify
18:23:30 -!- Slereah- has joined.
18:23:37 <Slereah-> NEVER HAVE I BEEN MORE ANGRY OR ORANGE
18:24:08 <ais523> Slereah-: if you were Nickserv-identified, you could get your nickname back from the ghost Slereah
18:24:38 <ehird> /ns ghost Slereah PASSWORD
18:24:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:25:06 <Slereah-> But it still mean I have to type it every goddamn time
18:25:18 <Slereah-> It's easier to wait it to drop
18:25:37 <ehird> use a less secure password
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18:26:10 <Slereah-> It's a fucking IRC password dude
18:26:26 <Slereah-> Well, I don't remember why I need it for on freenode
18:27:12 <ais523> Slereah-: to stop other people doing this:
18:27:14 -!- ais523 has changed nick to Slereah.
18:27:27 -!- Slereah has changed nick to ais523.
18:27:38 <Slereah-> NOW NEITHER OF US WILL BE VIRGINS!
18:27:46 <Slereah-> You know why that's a stupid argument?
18:27:49 <ehird> i think he stopped being your clone
18:28:02 <Slereah-> Because Freenode doesn't actually require you to enter your password
18:28:10 <Slereah-> I never enter it, and they never kick me out
18:28:20 <ehird> people can check with nickserv if you're logged in.
18:28:26 <ais523> Slereah-: some things do require an entered password
18:28:35 <ais523> for instance, many people won't receive /msgs from you if you aren't identified
18:28:37 <Slereah-> But not the things I usually do
18:28:46 <ais523> and you need one to kick off someone else who's using your nick
18:28:52 <Slereah-> It's also why I actually registered it
18:30:35 <Slereah-> Plus, you can impersonate me if you want.
18:30:51 <Slereah-> To see for yourself, just for one moment, how awesome it is to be me.
18:39:50 -!- oerjan has changed nick to Slereah.
18:40:05 -!- Slereah has changed nick to oerjan.
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18:43:08 * oerjan picks up the dropped hyphen and adds it to the swatter -----###
18:48:23 <Slereah> What's the source of the topic
18:48:25 <ais523> wait, which Slereah is which?
18:48:43 <Slereah> I am Pedro Sanchez Villalobo.
18:49:26 * oerjan is suspicious, that doesn't sound french
18:50:14 <oerjan> now i'm even more suspicious, maybe you're really GregorR
18:51:24 <oerjan> hm "Pedro Sanchez Villalobo" gives only one google hit, in french
18:51:33 <oerjan> i guess it's french after all, then
18:51:53 <Slereah> IIRC, it was the name of the ape general in Critter Commando
19:00:50 <Slereah> "The government in Los Estados Unidos Banana de Republico is like an industrial machine, 3000 revolutions a minute!"
19:05:03 <GregorR> The United States Banana of Republic?
19:05:22 * oerjan is reminded of the Junta boardgame
19:05:47 <ais523> ugh, not that, I played it once and the other players got annoyed with me for not getting into the spirit of the thing
19:05:51 <ais523> I played it far too honestly
19:06:00 <ais523> admitted secret political donations, that sort of thing
19:06:34 <oerjan> that was "Republica de los Bananas", though
19:07:56 <oerjan> ais523: well, annoying the other players _is_ part of the spirit of the game :D
19:08:05 <oerjan> maybe not in that way, though
19:12:17 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:13:37 <oerjan> hmph as i suspected, banana is feminine in spanish
19:15:30 <Slereah> It's pretty phallic looking though!
19:18:21 <oerjan> i vaguely recall occasionally reading about some muslims having trouble with it
19:18:52 <oerjan> not allowing women to eat it undivided, that sort of thing
19:19:09 <Slereah> It hurts my penis to think of it
19:28:50 <Slereah> Anyone knows the source of the topic?
19:30:18 -!- jix has joined.
19:31:50 <oerjan> google gives: http://www.angryhacker.com/blog/archive/2008/10/09/is-google-the-new-real-networks.aspx
19:33:22 <Slereah> It's true. Real Player must die.
19:33:44 <Slereah> Although it's full of nostalgia.
19:34:00 <Slereah> Real player was the first format I ever got pirated TV shows.
19:34:23 <Slereah> South Park episodes, under 20 MB.
19:34:31 <Slereah> Smallest one is barely 6MB
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20:01:32 <oerjan> http://brainlessworld.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/dehydrated-water.jpg
20:05:15 <ehird> http://www.buydehydratedwater.com/
20:05:43 <ais523> is that what you get from mineral/tap water if you remove all the H2O and are left only with the minerals dissolved in it?
20:05:51 <ehird> ais523: no, it's water without the wate
20:06:06 <ehird> http://buydehydratedwater.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5 mega gift indulgence pack
20:06:16 <ehird> http://buydehydratedwater.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=9 do it yourself guide
20:06:21 <Slereah> Yo dawg I heard you like water so I put water in yo water so you can drink while you drink
20:06:28 <ehird> http://buydehydratedwater.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8 book of practical uses
20:07:10 <Slereah> This book would be a great gift.
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20:26:16 <ais523> Slereah: for some reason that seemed crazily sarcastic to me
20:26:21 <ais523> even though probably it wasn't meant to be
20:26:39 <Slereah> Hey, I'm no king hater dude
20:26:52 <Slereah> I'm more royalist than the king!
20:28:36 -!- atrapado has joined.
20:33:41 <Sgeo> Should I work on updating PSOX to Py3K?
20:33:56 <ais523> Sgeo: I'm not entirely certain anyone will care either way
20:34:17 <ehird> Sgeo: DO NOT JOKE ABOUT SUCH MATTERS DAMNIT
20:34:39 <ehird> you'll give me a heart attack
20:35:24 <ais523> ehird: why would it be that disastrous?
20:35:35 <ehird> ais523: NEVER SAY ANOTHER WORD TO ME ABOUT PSOX
20:35:45 <ais523> ehird: you need help, obviously
20:35:50 <ais523> there's nothing wrong with mentioning PSOX
20:35:54 <ehird> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
20:36:05 <ehird> I WILL KILL YOU WHILE YOU SLEEP
20:36:21 <ais523> that would be kind of weird, scary and illegal
20:36:30 <Sgeo> ehird, would it give you pain to remind you that you contributed to PSOX?
20:36:35 <ehird> Sgeo: yeah, one line
20:36:38 <ehird> when i thought you got some sanity
20:36:49 <ehird> ais523: more like -50 lines
20:36:54 <ehird> as i removed the stupid-shit safety crap
20:37:01 <ais523> oh, you added a negative number of lines
20:37:15 <ehird> i improved it by making there be less of it
20:37:37 <Sgeo> You also gave me the names of some stuff in the type system
20:37:57 <ehird> i advocated getting rid of the type system
20:39:25 <oklopol> stop fighting let's all be friends
20:39:34 <ehird> oklopol: you just don't get PSOX
20:42:46 -!- oerjan has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | i improved it by making there be less of it.
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21:21:49 * ehird considers switching to haskell as his go-to language
21:23:19 <sorear> at least add it... it royally sucks for most sorts of I/O problems but it's great for the calculator job above bc
21:23:46 <sorear> pretty much all my one-off problems are solved with either perl or haskell
21:24:13 <ehird> I used to use haskell quite a lot; I just need to get more to grips with structuring actual programs in it.
21:24:22 <ehird> Right now I generally just hack something up in Python.
21:27:11 <ais523> hey, sorear's been in here all along and I didn't notice
21:27:26 <sorear> ais523: turn off join muting
21:27:38 <sorear> I've been here all of 1:30
21:27:49 <ehird> I forget who sorear is? :P
21:28:06 <ehird> I kind of inferred that much.
21:28:07 <sorear> Not a terribly remarkable one.
21:28:21 <Warrigal> Something like Stephan O'Rear, if I remember correctly.
21:28:24 <ais523> I don't have it on, but my bouncer misses joins sometimes anyway
21:28:39 <ais523> I know sorear from TAEB
21:28:42 * ehird grrs at haskell for not letting me use the field name 'name' in two `data`s
21:29:10 * sorear greps his giant pile of logs for 'ihope'
21:29:53 <ehird> Wtf, Warrigal is connected from normish
21:30:44 <Warrigal> And that's how I've been connected for a couple days, a feat I could never manage on home computers.
21:32:06 <ehird> Damnit, my haskell code treats into right-margin-indent hell and over-paren hell again.
21:32:12 <ehird> Maybe I should try, you know, splitting up my functions.
21:32:38 <sorear> If it's not a one-liner it _probably_ needs to be factored
21:32:55 <ehird> I'm terrible at factoring stuff.
21:36:11 <ehird> Heh. I factored my code and it looks even uglier.
21:36:34 <ais523> you should see some of my Prolog
21:36:43 <ais523> recently I've been doing quite a lot of defactoring
21:36:52 <ais523> lots of nested parens for ; and ->
21:36:57 <ehird> http://hpaste.org/12698 <-- Awful, awful, awful looking.
21:38:22 <oerjan> might try some list comprehensions
21:38:44 <ehird> oerjan: Well, the thing that really sticks out before the other ugly is initialCurrencies
21:38:52 <ehird> having names in a separate line all by itself, and the crazy-indent of the Currency values.
21:40:24 <Sgeo> Why are rates Maybe Integers?
21:40:37 <Sgeo> You're tracking currencies that aren't in the PBA?
21:40:40 <ehird> Sgeo: The PBA can conceivably be given assets that aren't currencies. :P
21:40:47 <ehird> You could do it right now, fr'instance.
21:40:59 <ehird> Although technically I do not have to track them, I feel like I should.
21:41:49 * Sgeo should learn Haskell, well, at least know it more than just knowing a stupid pun
21:41:55 <ehird> I should show that to the #haskell folks so that they kill me.
21:42:50 <ehird> Someone rate this idea.
21:44:49 <oerjan> ehird: i annotated, although maybe it got too wide
21:45:13 <ehird> oerjan: a bit better, but everything below initialcurrencies is still blergh
21:45:32 <ehird> "Transform your code into pointless form to make it beautiful. :)" -- stunning advice of #haskell
21:45:46 <ehird> oerjan: also, it occurs to me that the list comprehension is actually pretty unneeded there
21:45:53 <ehird> i mean, you're not actually using any list comprehension features.
21:46:12 <oerjan> just for prettyness, of course
21:46:17 <Sgeo> What would pointfree form actually change?
21:46:26 <ehird> Sgeo: it would make it look awful.
21:46:44 <Sgeo> I don't even see where in the code the changes would be
21:46:50 <Sgeo> But remember I'm a Haskell n00b
21:46:54 <oerjan> (\k -> k ++ " credit") == (++ " credit")
21:47:03 <lament> everything should be as pointless as possible, but no pointlesser.
21:47:32 <oerjan> that's at least one place where pointless is better
21:48:32 <ehird> yours is over 80 charactrs
21:48:40 <ehird> i.e. i have to do more pig-ugly wrapping
21:49:52 <oerjan> right i was afraid Currency { ... } did not fit even with starting further left
21:50:58 * Sgeo doesn't worry about wrapping in his Agora proposals, obviously
21:51:30 <ehird> {{@pl \i -> show i ++ " crop"
21:51:30 <ehird> [21:50] lambdabot:
21:51:30 <ehird> (++ " crop") . show}}
21:51:35 <ehird> "your code will be better if you make it more obscure."
21:53:18 <lament> ehird: why are your credits notes?
21:53:52 <ehird> lament: It's for Agora Nomic. Notes are the rules-sanctioned non-transferrable currency. Note Credits are a hack that makes them sort-of-transferrable in practice.
21:54:07 <ehird> (er, player-made :p)
21:54:31 <lament> why are some sharps and some flats?
21:54:48 <ehird> lament: the most common usage that I can see. Annoyingly for someone who is musically retarded (me), people like switching between the two in actions.
21:55:22 <Sgeo> Let's all just use #
21:55:28 <lament> i'd rather keep it consistent
21:55:31 <lament> in the program at least
21:55:44 <ehird> lament: would you go with sharps or flats :P
21:56:04 <lament> and then i would crawl around for hours trying to find it
21:56:12 <lament> and then i would forget why i'm doing that
21:56:17 <lament> and then i'd go drink some tea
21:56:23 <Sgeo> ehird, ooh, look, nice
21:56:29 <ehird> lament's life sounds exciting
21:56:55 <lament> about as exciting as garfieldminusgarfield
21:58:19 <ehird> so, in trying to make my code prettier with #haskell's help, i have made it uglier
21:58:34 <Sgeo> ehird, http://hpaste.org/12698#a4 is pretty
21:58:55 <ehird> it would have been nice if someone linked me to that
21:59:02 <ehird> that's not pretty.
21:59:15 <Sgeo> How is it ugly
21:59:22 <Sgeo> You want more than whitespace stuff changed?
21:59:39 <lament> it's ugly because it's in Haskell.
21:59:40 <ehird> it's way too slim and vertical for no real reason, it's inconsistent in its indentation and it's hard to read
21:59:48 <ehird> lament: yes, we know, you hate haskell
22:00:30 <Sgeo> ehird, it's easy for me to read
22:00:38 <ehird> maybe you're blind.
22:00:59 <Sgeo> Easier than the others, at least
22:01:03 <oerjan> it's definitely inconsistent, some bug there
22:01:36 <oerjan> one option is not to start to the right of the where
22:01:41 <ehird> <ozy`> Sgeo: wait, are you Sgeo?
22:02:32 <ehird> I HATE HASKELL-MODE AND ITS GODDAMN "WHAT PEOPLE NEVER INDENT SUBEXPRESSIONS"
22:02:48 <ehird> TYPING FOUR SPACES MANUALLY! WHAT! THIS IS 2008
22:04:13 <lament> don't use haskell then
22:04:30 <ehird> gee, is lament talking about haskell sucks
22:05:23 <ehird> oerjan: that's some serverely messed up intendation
22:05:25 <ehird> also, http://hpaste.org/12698#a6 my new try
22:06:00 <oerjan> i don't know what happened with the crops and credits lines
22:06:03 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p252251216.txt
22:06:13 <ehird> oklopol: make my haskell look nice
22:06:32 <oerjan> somehow i managed to make the same bug as that consonanty guy
22:07:09 <oerjan> oklopol: NO THAT IS FORBIDDEN
22:10:50 <ehird> so lament which language do YOU use :P
22:16:38 <oklopol> oh it's short for action, of course...
22:16:49 <oklopol> i just thought it was "dot, act 2"
22:17:24 <oerjan> would you want to meet someone in a dark alley who thought that INTERCAL was beautiful?
22:17:48 <ais523> quite possibly, they'd be less likely to hurt me than someone who had never heard of INTERCAL
22:18:18 <ais523> fwiw, they'd be quite likely to know who I was
22:18:37 <oerjan> lessee, would you use a plastic surgeon who thought that INTERCAL was beautiful?
22:18:56 <oerjan> the risk of ending up like a picasso painting...
22:20:22 <ais523> I'm not convinced I'd use a plastic surgeon at all
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22:21:28 <fizzie> oklopol: Not as pretty as INTERCAL!
22:21:50 <ehird> "That pig ugly code is perfect" -- #haskell
22:22:10 <ais523> ehird: everyone seems to disagree with your sense of aesthetics is the problem
22:22:22 <ehird> ais523: do you think that code looks nice?
22:22:51 <ehird> http://hpaste.org/12698#a6
22:23:20 <ais523> things like ["C", "C#", "D", "D#", "E", "F", "F#", "G", "Ab", "A", "Bb", "B"] look bad on one line
22:23:24 <ehird> <yitz> Cale: looks like something to do with optimizing political gain in return for payoffs
22:23:31 <ehird> -- #haskell on what my code goes
22:23:32 <ais523> because they don't fit in with their surroundings
22:23:48 <ais523> do they know about nomic?
22:23:55 <ehird> i haven't told them a thing
22:24:24 <ehird> Sgeo: you ruined all the fun
22:24:27 <ehird> that's all you ever do
22:24:33 <oerjan> hm, what do you do with water rights in agora anyway? :D
22:24:37 -!- ehird has left (?).
22:24:47 <ais523> oerjan: they prevent ranches drying up
22:24:52 <ais523> ranches generate numbers
22:24:56 <ais523> which can be used to score points
22:25:11 <ais523> WRV are generally considered to be the most useful stable Agoran asset at the moment
22:27:25 <Sgeo> <yitz> it's a script kiddie bot?
22:27:39 <Sgeo> I post the link to it's page on the Notary wiki
22:27:40 <Sgeo> <yitz> that screen shot looks like scores of simultaneous ssh login attempts
22:27:40 <ais523> someone should disillusion them about that
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22:43:17 <Warrigal> Who's been including D# along with Ab and Bb?
22:44:46 <lament> clearly they should have infinitely many notes :)
22:45:35 <oerjan> just to test the new hyphen, you see
22:46:47 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
22:47:42 <lament> it looks just like the old hyphen
22:48:17 <ais523> lament: well yes, it was a perfect fit
22:48:26 <ais523> there's one more hyphen in the swatter than before
22:48:35 <ais523> oerjan stole it off Slereah-
22:48:44 <ais523> well, took it as it was unused
22:50:34 <Slereah> I took your wallet, since you weren't using it
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