00:00:48 <warrie> I do think I have absolute pitch.
00:01:13 <lament> then just write this program, it's very easy
00:01:18 -!- nooga_ has changed nick to nooga.
00:01:22 <lament> you can find sources for tone generation
00:01:43 <lament> tons of ways to do it, you can be high level and do midi, or low level and do sine waves + sdl
00:01:53 <warrie> Or use JavaScript and piano sounds.
00:02:09 <lament> a.wav, asharp.wav, b.wav, etc
00:03:27 <warrie> I could confuse myself by having asharp.wav and bflat.wav as different pitches.
00:03:42 <warrie> Or I could shut up about alternative tunings.
00:04:51 <lament> if you have absolute pitch that can tell A# from Bb
00:05:00 <lament> in whatever sane temperament
00:05:11 <lament> then you're a fucking genius and should probably work as a piano tuner?
00:05:43 <warrie> I'm sure distinguishing them is relatively easy in 19-tone equal temperament.
00:08:24 <Sgeo> Wait, A# and Bb are different?
00:09:17 <warrie> If your piano has only one key between A and B, go ahead and use it for both A# and Bb.
00:10:17 * warrie tries to see if Python can easily do MIDI
00:15:46 <jayCampbell> does anyone remember the recent tool that generates grammars based on example sources?
00:19:37 <Asztal> never heard of it, but now I want to see it!
00:19:55 <GreaseMonkey> warrie: if you want to you can build your own synth system
00:22:29 <warrie> Sounds easier to use MIDI or something.
00:24:36 * Sgeo wants to transplant a conversation into here
00:26:49 <Sgeo> A computer chip that can receive things sent from the future
00:27:38 <Sgeo> char wormhole_recv(char slot)
00:27:50 <Sgeo> and wormhole_send(char slot, char data)
00:28:00 <Sgeo> as low level functions
00:28:08 <warrie> This is what I really like about Google Calculator: http://www.google.com/search?q=%281+month+*+1+lunar+month%29%2F%281+month+-+1+lunar+month%29+*+once+in+a+blue+moon
00:29:42 <Sgeo> The fact that it defines "once in a blue moon" somehow that should make sense to be from that but doesn't?
00:30:28 <Sgeo> Why is a blue moon = (month-lunarmonth) / (month*lunarmonth)?
00:30:52 <warrie> A blue moon is the second full moon in a calendar month, I believe.
00:36:13 <Sgeo> So, what things can be done on a system like what I described
00:36:25 <Sgeo> Future IMs, Perfect Password Cracker
00:38:06 <Sgeo> That would be under Future IM/Email
00:38:37 <Sgeo> Evacuations of buildings that could easily give false positives but never false negatives
00:40:43 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:41:52 <MizardX> wormhole_recv: receive a message from the future. wormhole_send: send a message to the past, but doesn't always send what you give it.
00:43:49 <Sgeo> MizardX, why would you do that?
00:45:02 <Sgeo> There's also the Pime Taradox issue: Someone might right a function like this:
00:45:18 <Sgeo> wormhole_send(wormhole_recv()+1)
00:45:55 <Sgeo> To prevent random lightning strikes as the resolution, the chip should randomly, on wormhole_recv, through some sort of trap or exception like PimeTaradox
00:45:57 <Asztal> I guess it just keeps destroying the universe until it finds a fixed point or something
00:46:06 <Sgeo> The possibility of this needs to be controllable, I think
00:48:04 <warrie> I prefer my model: Assuming I haven't extrapolated too wildly, every quantum circuit has a fixed point. The wormhole gate pretty much just tells you what it is.
00:48:26 <Sgeo> That involves quantum compution though
00:48:31 <Sgeo> Which is a bit mind-bending
00:48:55 <warrie> Yes, but once you bend your mind once, it should stay that way.
00:51:37 <Sgeo> I think you said my way was more poweful?
00:52:04 * Sgeo doesn't know the limitations or benefits of your quantum system
00:56:10 <warrie> I think I did say your way was more powerful.
00:56:18 <MizardX> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p342611616.txt ;)
00:57:30 <lament> warrie: did you write the program yet?
00:58:36 <Sgeo> MizardX, don't tell me you're actually trying to implement this..
00:58:39 <lament> i wonder if there's any benefit to such a program, though
00:58:48 <lament> i.e. whether it would train absolute pitch or not
00:59:13 <Sgeo> MizardX randomly takes a number, or receives something from the past
00:59:31 <lament> absolute pitch would be ridiculously useful for writing music you hear down
00:59:53 <warrie> I'm sure it would be as effective as flash cards for anything else.
01:00:19 <warrie> I mean, not if you don't already have absolute pitch; that seems to be established well enough.
01:02:13 <lament> warrie: if you already have it, what does "training" it do?
01:02:31 * Sgeo wants new OotS
01:02:43 <lament> with flashcards, when you're shown an unknown word twice, you might not know the word, but you would be able to tell that it's the same
01:02:58 <lament> i'm not sure if "underdeveloped" absolute pitch works like that
01:03:13 * Sgeo abuses his TLL computer to peak at the new OotS
01:03:30 <warrie> lament: I'm quite familiar with G, having listened to Bach's "Little" Fugue in G minor many times.
01:04:20 <lament> oh, that fugue is nice
01:04:27 -!- kt3k has joined.
01:04:53 <lament> but if you can remember one note, then you just need to measure the interval from it to the note you hear, which is relative pitch and very easy
01:05:17 <warrie> But that takes two steps.
01:05:31 <lament> but if you heard the same fugue played in f#, would you notice? :)
01:07:26 <lament> i feel kinda dumb not having absolute pitch, so if it can be trained that would be nice
01:08:02 <warrie> There's a piano at school that seems to be shifted in pitch a bit, though by less than a semitone, I'm guessing.
01:13:44 -!- kt3k has quit ("CHOCOA").
01:13:44 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonal_memory
01:13:53 <lament> "Tonal memory may be used as a strategy for learning to identify musical tones absolutely. Although those who attempt the strategy believe they are learning absolute pitch, the ability thus learned is generally not musically relevant[3], and their absolute tonal memory declines substantially or completely over time if not constantly reinforced."
01:14:06 <lament> i believe that's what the flashcard program would do.
01:14:34 <lament> http://www.aruffo.com/eartraining/research/articles/meyer99.htm
01:14:52 <lament> although that paper is from 1899 so who knows
01:18:58 <lament> damn, so you can't develop absolute pitch if you don't have it :(
01:19:35 <lament> and if you know G because you listened to a fugue in G a lot, that would be tonal memory, not absolute pitch
01:21:48 <warrie> How am I supposed to know if I have absolute pitch or not, then?
01:22:49 <lament> absolute pitch means you perceive pitch as one of the characteristics of the note
01:23:06 <lament> without any relationship to other notes (including ones you have memorized)
01:24:34 <lament> like, blue is blue because it's blue, not because it's different from green in a certain way
01:26:56 <Asztal> well, I don't have absolute colour :(
01:26:57 <lament> at least relative pitch can certainly be trained, and it's arguably much more useful
01:27:13 <warrie> How do you falsify absolute pitch?
01:29:35 <lament> wikipedia gives no hints
01:29:51 <lament> other than hypersensitivity to the pitch being correct
01:30:06 <lament> i.e. you should notice when a piece is playing in the wrong key
01:30:59 <lament> "the tasks of identification (recognizing and naming a pitch) and discrimination (detecting changes or differences in rate of vibration) are accomplished with different brain mechanisms."
01:31:16 <lament> does that mean absolute pitch is visible on EEG?
01:32:25 <lament> http://www.zainea.com/absolpitch.pdf
01:32:29 <lament> Being unable to turn it
01:32:29 <lament> off, many possessors of AP perform dramatically poorer at
01:32:30 <lament> judging whether a melody and its transposed counterpart
01:33:28 <warrie> Does it count if I can remember the key a piece of music is in?
01:34:04 <lament> can you tell the key, by listening to the music?
01:35:57 <lament> jayCampbell: what do you need?
01:36:09 <warrie> If you played me "Amaranth" on the piano, I could tell you whether it's in the same key as a certain YouTube video of it.
01:38:28 <lament> since you have musical training, i think with absolute pitch you ought to guess the note pretty much all of the time
01:38:56 <lament> Some people have AP for only a single tone – often their
01:38:56 <lament> tuning note – and fail to show the automatic and rapid
01:38:56 <lament> identification found in true AP possessors (hence, this is
01:38:56 <lament> termed ‘quasi-AP’). They are able to obtain high scores on
01:38:56 <lament> standard AP tests by calculating tone names from their
01:38:58 <lament> one internal referent. It is only when reaction times are
01:39:01 <lament> collected that they can be distinguished from true AP
01:39:13 <lament> heh! falsifiable via reaction time :)
01:39:54 <jayCampbell> it's easier for me to recognize or hum an E than other notes
01:40:25 -!- warrie has changed nick to Warrigal.
01:40:27 <jayCampbell> maybe i'm a quasi, i think i recognize other keys as being shifted from E
01:42:27 <GregorR> Everybody knows that people with "G" in their nick are substantially cooler than the rest.
01:43:14 <Warrigal> Actually, the letter A is what makes a nick cool.
01:43:24 <Warrigal> So everybody who's spoken recently except... GregorR, I guess.
01:43:47 <Warrigal> You're exempt, though, because Gregor is an actual name.
01:44:09 <GregorR> a's cancel each other out though, having two is like having none.
01:44:45 <Warrigal> In that case, I'm also exempt, because "warrigal" is an actual word.
01:46:39 <Warrigal> It's all about pronounceability, or pronuncibility, or whatever that thing's called.
01:47:53 <Warrigal> Should I assume your "g" and "e" are pronounced the same way as in your real name?
01:48:14 <Sgeo> The "g" in Sgeo is pronounced the opposite from my real name
01:49:02 <Warrigal> Is the "e" a short e, a long e, a long a, or something else?
01:53:17 <Warrigal> Well, installing the fancy thingy that's supposed to make Python make noise failed.
02:14:51 <Sgeo> Another use (of the TLL computer): Instant downloading of any size file
02:17:38 <Sgeo> Instant cracking of hashed passwords, although I supposed that's not needed with the Perfect Password Cracker
02:32:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic.").
02:44:47 -!- at_deckards_hous has joined.
02:46:38 <Warrigal> What Perfect Password Cracker?
03:03:53 -!- at_deckards_hous has quit (Connection timed out).
03:41:52 <GregorR> Hrm ... nethack starts, but seems stuck >_>
04:03:51 -!- Asztal has quit (".").
05:00:49 -!- moozilla has joined.
05:04:18 -!- metazilla has joined.
05:04:19 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:04:42 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:04:54 -!- moozilla has joined.
05:21:46 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:21:56 -!- moozilla has joined.
05:22:47 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:40:32 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit.
06:03:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:23:07 <jayCampbell> i implemented your reversible brainfuck but i have no idea how it attains reversability
06:23:09 -!- Slereah has joined.
06:32:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
06:33:41 <jayCampbell> create a brainfuck program that reverses another program's run
06:50:54 <GregorR> Hrm ... sounds halting-problem-ish.
06:51:54 <lament> if my program prints integers starting from 0 and going up, should the reversed program print them from infinity going down?
07:24:58 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
07:35:07 -!- Judofyr has joined.
07:46:09 -!- decipher has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:51:33 -!- decipher has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:13:16 -!- Judofyr has quit.
08:18:52 -!- oerjan has joined.
08:44:58 -!- Dewi has quit ("bbl").
08:45:42 -!- Corun has joined.
08:53:12 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
08:55:54 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
09:54:52 <oklopol> you don't need absolute pitch for writing anything you hear down
09:55:12 <oklopol> it only helps in that you don't need to hit a random piano key to get the relative in context.
09:55:23 <oklopol> 02:04… lament: if you have absolute pitch that can tell A# from Bb <<< A# and Bb aren't different in any sane tuning.
09:56:02 <oklopol> makes no sense to have those two different, they simply have no conceptual difference.
09:57:09 <oklopol> and you definitely shouldn't make a.wav, asharp.wav etc., at least if you press the keys yourself, it's trivial to learn to recognize a certain ".wav", that has nothing to do with recognizing the pitch.
10:00:57 <lament> oklopol: a# and bb are different notes
10:01:11 <lament> they just happen to fall on the same pitch in 12-note equal temperament
10:02:16 <lament> but a violinist, say, is able to play them more correctly (closer to natural harmonics)
10:03:53 <lament> the difference is that a# is the note a fifth up from d#, and bB is the note a fifth down from f
10:04:10 <oklopol> what are their mathematical definitions? i go by 440*2**(n/12) for all purposes
10:04:11 <lament> the circle of fifths is actually a straight line of fifths
10:04:35 <lament> it goes in the direction of increasing sharps, in the opposite direction of increasing flats
10:04:38 <lament> both directions are infinite
10:04:57 <oerjan> oklopol: that _is_ 12 note equal temperament
10:05:25 <oklopol> yes, okay, now i get it, of course
10:05:30 <lament> but with 12 note equal temperament, we turn the straight line into a loop
10:05:39 <oklopol> you mean A# and Bb are different notes in C scale.
10:05:42 <lament> by approximating the true pitches with one of 12 discrete choices
10:06:12 <oklopol> my point was exactly that they aren't different if you consider the whole set of scales.
10:06:42 <lament> they correspond to different frequencies, if you start at C and go up or down in fifths
10:06:52 <oklopol> yeah, and Ab in D scale is different than Ab in C scale
10:07:16 <oklopol> my point is A# and Bb don't have a fundamental difference, except in a certain scale
10:07:29 <lament> they're completely different notes
10:07:43 <lament> in 12-note equal temperament, they happen to fall on the same pitch
10:08:07 <oklopol> i'd like to see the math here.
10:08:27 <lament> octaves are powers of two
10:08:58 <lament> fifths are powers of ummm
10:09:55 <lament> what are they powers of? :)
10:10:11 <oerjan> some rational number, anyway
10:10:24 <oklopol> hmm. i'm not sure you understood i do know A# and Bb are different notes, and that my point was just that they are also another two different notes if you start the scale of fifths from, say, D?
10:10:27 <lament> the interval ratio of the note up a fifth from a root note is 3:2 iirc
10:11:20 <oklopol> anyway i'm not interested in getting these ratios right, that's just adding an uninteresting complication to an otherwise nice system.
10:11:55 <lament> no, they will be the same if you start from D, provided that you arrived to D by starting at C first :)
10:12:15 <lament> i mean they won't be the same
10:12:21 <oklopol> the D scale will not be correct then.
10:12:26 <oklopol> so no, you shouldn't start from C then
10:12:34 <oklopol> if you do, why not just use equiscale.
10:12:59 <lament> tonal music is built on the cycle of fifths
10:13:07 <lament> we choose an arbitrary pitch as the centre
10:13:25 <lament> in indian music, they don't even have fixed note frequencies, they just tune to whatever
10:13:40 <lament> as long as there's the center, other notes are defined in terms of it
10:13:49 <lament> unless you don't want to be tonal
10:13:56 <lament> which you don't have to be, of course
10:14:18 <lament> then you can just take the octave and divide it into N equidistant pitches, for example
10:14:28 <lament> or simply choose a set of N random frequencies as your "notes"
10:14:41 <oklopol> yes, and my point is, if you stick the fucking C in the middle all the time, and play in say D major, and then start telling A# and Bb are different, that's just bullcrap, that's just a random distinction. it's only helpful if you're actually playing in the scale your circle of fifths is tuned on
10:14:50 <lament> but if you're tonal, you have to follow the circle of fifths
10:14:57 <oklopol> 12 is the only one that makes sense
10:15:13 <oklopol> read wouter's article on the subject
10:15:41 <lament> chinese classical music has 5 notes per octave?
10:15:56 <oklopol> anyway, i'm not at all interested, and you're not showing me the math, so you're basically saying nothing ->
10:16:08 <oklopol> they do? nevaheard, link something to me while i'm gone
10:16:13 <oklopol> because i don't believe you :P
10:16:15 <lament> the math is that the notes in a fifth are in a 3:2 ratio
10:16:24 <lament> and no matter how many such ratios you put in a line
10:16:30 <lament> you will never get to a ratio that's a power of 2
10:16:47 <lament> i.e. no amount of fifths will ever add up to the same note modulo octave
10:16:56 <lament> i.e. the circle of fifths is not a circle at all
10:16:58 <oklopol> no offense, but i have a lecture in -1 minutes, and i can't leave if you're talking, so... :D
10:17:11 <oklopol> minute of silence, please? we can talk later
10:17:20 <oklopol> (not that i'm interested!)
10:17:20 <lament> i told you the math :)
10:30:54 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
10:44:22 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
11:09:28 <oklopol> lament: yeah true i was wrong, of course D scale would be the same as C, the point is not that, the point is exactly what you said, we just choose an arbitrary subset of the circle of fifths.
11:10:36 <oklopol> anyway the system is still stupid, splitting evenly is better
12:09:17 -!- Sgeo has joined.
12:17:51 -!- Mony has joined.
12:32:45 -!- Corun has joined.
13:16:40 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
13:26:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:26:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
14:20:08 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
14:36:15 <AnMaster> fizzie, any progress on jitfunge?
14:42:33 -!- Judofyr has joined.
15:05:44 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
15:53:37 -!- kt3k has joined.
15:54:39 <fizzie> AnMaster: Unfortunately not; been busy with other, more mundane things. (Also away right now, must transport self to another place.)
16:04:53 -!- jix_ has joined.
16:14:17 -!- LolaCL has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
16:16:07 -!- LolaCL has joined.
16:31:38 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:19:26 <lament> oklopol: sure, 12-tone equal temperament has a ton of advantages, which is why everyone is using it
18:19:38 <lament> oklopol: but you shouldn't confuse it for "reality"
18:19:56 <lament> i.e. just because A# = Bb in equal temperament, doesn't mean it is "really so"
18:21:16 -!- kar8nga has joined.
18:24:35 <oklopol> lament: i can't admit i'm wrong, so i have really nothing to say here!
18:25:24 <lament> and the differences aren't purely theoretic
18:25:46 <lament> my hearing is nothing special but i can certainly hear the difference between an equal-tempered major third and a "real" major third
18:25:54 <oklopol> i realized what the truth was once i realized there's also G### etc.
18:26:20 <lament> the number of sharps and flats grows up to infinity
18:26:47 <lament> although it only rarely gets to 2 in actual music, and almost never to 3
18:27:15 <lament> some composers just disregard the whole thing and assume equal temperament
18:27:17 <ais523> how many sharps do you need before in a non-equal-tempered scale you end up back on the scale you started on
18:28:18 <ais523> after all, a true sharp is + a certain frequency
18:28:30 <ais523> if it's something like that, then you'll never end up on the scale
18:28:35 <ais523> it probably depends on the exact ratios
18:28:53 <oklopol> yes that's very probable :D
18:28:57 <oerjan> ais523: the pythagorean tuning, which i read about this morning, has 3/2 and 2
18:29:18 <ais523> oerjan: that's for fifths and octaves, isn't it?
18:29:23 <ais523> I'm wondering what it is for sharps
18:29:47 <oklopol> ais523: just jump in fifths?
18:29:59 <oerjan> ais523: when you go up by 7 fifths, you reach the sharp of the original
18:31:02 <lament> chopin's fantasia impromptu
18:31:28 <lament> and then the middle portion is in the major of the same key
18:31:31 <oerjan> also, they used 5/4 (iirc) for major third in some tunings, which is neither pythagorean nor equal-tempered
18:32:17 <lament> but instead of writing it in c# major, chopin wrote it in Db major
18:32:19 <oerjan> lament: the wp article said that major thirds were dissonant with pythagorean tuning, so was not used in european music after 15th century or so
18:32:30 <lament> which makes no sense at all, other than as a shortcut
18:32:45 <lament> and because pianists are more used to reading Dbmaj than C#maj
18:32:52 <lament> and because they correspond to the same keys on the piano
18:33:09 <lament> so actual composers totally disregard this theoretical bullshit :)
18:33:54 <lament> oerjan: which article?
18:36:16 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Music_intervals_frequency_ratio_equal_tempered_pythagorean_comparison.svg
18:36:57 <lament> "Because fifths in Pythagorean tuning are in the simple ratio of 3:2, they sound very "smooth" and consonant. The thirds, by contrast, which are in the relatively complex ratios of 81:64 (for major thirds) and 32:27 (for minor thirds), sound less smooth."
18:36:58 <oerjan> second last paragraph of Method section
18:37:13 <lament> yeah, 81:64 does not sound like it would be nice :)
18:37:41 <lament> when you think too much about it, head explodes
18:38:00 <lament> there're all these true intervals and none of them are compatible with each other
18:38:57 <lament> say you're playing in C major
18:39:08 <lament> and you want to play the G chord
18:39:19 <lament> is the D the note a fifth above G, or a second above C+
18:41:07 * lament doesn't know the answer
18:41:28 <oerjan> 9/8 does not seem like it would have any close simpler fractions...
18:41:47 <lament> i think it should be the second above C
18:41:50 <oerjan> so the second probably _is_ two fifths up
18:41:53 <lament> because C is your tonal centre
18:44:51 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation
18:46:26 <lament> so G major is a bad example, but good examples are only a tiny bit more complicated, like going from C major to D minor
18:47:00 <lament> at that point you have to make a choice of whether to stay in C major and have a D minor chord that sounds wrong, or switch to a whole new set of intervals
18:47:44 <oklopol> i can clearly hear a few notes being wrong in the just intonation.
18:48:01 -!- Corun has joined.
18:48:20 <lament> if you play C major on the guitar
18:48:21 <oerjan> oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enharmonic explains why you would want to use both A# and Bb in your notation, even with equal temper, because you want a scale to have all base letters different
18:48:28 <lament> assuming the guitar is tuned correctly
18:49:00 <lament> so some guitarists actually detune the E and make it a just major third above C
18:49:05 <lament> which makes C major sound nicer
18:49:11 <lament> the problem of course is that all the other keys are fucked
18:49:25 <lament> if you stay in one key, though, it's better
18:49:36 <lament> so these difficulties are definitely not just theoretical
18:50:47 <oklopol> ugh, just intonation sounds ugly
18:51:26 <oklopol> well makes sense then that i find that most natural
18:51:28 <lament> almost everything is tuned equal
18:51:41 <lament> but major thirds definitely sound wrong :)
18:51:54 <lament> they're not "calm" enough
18:52:19 <oklopol> in the comparison thingie, just intonation had a pretty hideous major third
18:52:39 <oklopol> unlike equal, which had, well, major third :|
18:52:44 <oklopol> but i should look more into this.
18:52:53 <oklopol> i've never really cared about this
18:53:10 <oklopol> which is why i don't know anything
18:53:23 <oklopol> anyway, see you must watch series.
18:53:25 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving").
18:53:37 -!- kt3k has quit ("CHOCOA").
19:23:13 -!- olsner has joined.
19:43:43 -!- Corun has joined.
20:02:44 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:02:45 -!- kar8nga1 has joined.
20:03:16 -!- jix has joined.
20:05:09 -!- Mony has quit ("Hey Hoy let go !").
20:17:43 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
20:54:39 -!- Corun has changed nick to Terrorist.
20:54:45 -!- Terrorist has changed nick to Corun.
21:14:56 <ais523> hi, btw I'm in a large argument in another channel atm so probably won't be paying attention for a while
21:28:55 <Slereah> Maybe you should imply that you had sexual national congress with the mother of your opponent.
21:34:31 * oerjan notes that "sexual national congress" has only one google hit, which is fake
21:34:42 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:35:22 <oerjan> although it sounds like a rather large event
21:40:06 <ehird> Python 3000 is ready! The official release may not come until tomorrow, but Barry has tagged the source and is preparing the release. We've been waiting for this release for almost nine years. The earliest reference I can find is a message from Guido to python-dev in Jan. 2000.
21:55:04 -!- kar8nga1 has left (?).
21:56:07 <lament> yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
21:56:35 <ais523> lament: why are you yaying?
21:57:01 <ais523> I don't know much about python versions
21:57:21 <lament> it's something akin to perl 6
21:57:32 <ais523> I'm not sure if that's OK or oh dear
21:57:34 <lament> except not quite as ambitious, which is why it's actually out after 9 years
21:57:35 <ais523> rather depends on what it's like
21:57:57 <lament> it's basically python, just with some compatibility-breaking changes
21:59:08 <AnMaster> ais523, well I made progress with the bf optimizing, but the code is too messy
21:59:18 <AnMaster> so I probably won't make it too smart
21:59:24 <AnMaster> it is a nightmare to maintain.
22:00:18 <AnMaster> ais523, also the way the code currently looks it would be possible to change the emitting code to generate something else
22:00:31 <AnMaster> so generating bf could be done
22:00:59 <ais523> it wouldn't be very optimised though I don't think
22:01:04 <ais523> you'd have to deoptimise it back into the original
22:01:11 <ehird> http://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.0/
22:01:20 <AnMaster> ais523, however it could optimize lost kingdom slightly
22:01:43 <AnMaster> ais523, like dropping some non-needed [-], changing order of some stuff
22:01:54 <AnMaster> so it would slightly optimize it yes
22:02:56 <ehird> today, KIDS, we follow ehird as he tries to get a mathematica trial WITHOUT WAITING 2 BUSINESS DAYS FOR PEOPLE TO MANUALLY READ HIS REQUEST
22:03:47 <ehird> Slereah: I was about to follow your advice, but I saw the all-important condition of being back so I won't, being white.
22:03:59 <ehird> (I tried to. Mathematica 7 hasn't made its way anywhere yet.)
22:05:17 <ehird> Slereah: I am a magical faery
22:06:21 <ehird> hey ais523, i don't suppose your trial would work on a totally different OS and without a new key? :P
22:06:33 <ais523> ehird: no, it wouldn't
22:06:55 <ehird> oh well, time to see if wolfram acknowledge the existence of 1 FAKE STREET
22:07:18 <Slereah> maybe ais523 could ask mister Wolfram.
22:07:18 <oklopol> that's one fake street name
22:07:31 <Slereah> "Hey dude, I proved your machine"
22:07:37 <Slereah> "Can you like give me a Mathematica?"
22:08:27 <ehird> Your Mathematica product trial request has been submitted and will be processed within three business days. In the meantime, you can explore all the latest features and complete documentation.
22:08:27 <ehird> Want help getting started with Mathematica? The Wolfram Mathematica Learning Center jump-starts the process with links to video screencasts; free online Mathematica seminars and presentations; "how-to"s and step-by-step examples; in-depth tutorials; thousands of free, ready-to-use models and demonstrations; and much more.
22:08:27 <ehird> If you have any questions about your Mathematica product trial, please contact us.
22:08:47 <ehird> Slereah: apparently the only mathematica thing ais523 got from it was a year trial
22:09:18 <Slereah> Well, then again, with his prize money, he could buy a bunch of Mathematica I guess
22:09:57 <ehird> Slereah: I believe he's said he used it to pay expenses :P
22:28:39 <ehird> proto to implement the wormhole:
22:28:47 <ehird> return dummy value that stores expresions its used in
22:28:53 <ehird> when yu're forced to eval it, e.g. print out
22:29:02 <ehird> the tll is actually just lazy evaluation
22:29:06 <ehird> except it's given to you pre-evaluation
23:09:55 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
23:11:54 -!- Dewi has joined.
23:19:20 -!- Judofyr_ has joined.
23:19:52 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:37:11 <ehird> pgimeno: you should make mandelbrot in paintfuck