00:04:11 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
00:09:07 <SimonRC> http://www.curioustaxonomy.net/
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00:11:51 <oklopol> http://www.conservapedia.com/Diagonalization
00:13:18 <Slereah> " Diagonalization and the Existence of God"
00:13:18 <GregorR> Ah yes, conservapedia, truly MY reliable source of information.
00:14:00 <oklopol> However, diagonalization argues that no greatest idea can exist: quite bluntly, God is infinite, therefore He can be diagonalized to produce an even greater infinite.[3] This seeming disproof of the existence of God has cast doubt on the validity of Cantor's diagonalization.
00:14:31 <GregorR> Even for conservapedia that's pretty retarded :P
00:14:58 <Slereah> I bet this was written by Shlafly
00:15:01 <GregorR> I especially like how 2/3 references were in that section :P
00:15:07 <Slereah> He has that weird obsession with math
00:15:21 <Slereah> About how math was in a huge liberal conspiracy or something
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00:16:21 <oerjan> the universe _is_ in a huge liberal conspiracy!
00:16:50 <oerjan> which God started, naturally
00:17:38 <oerjan> or was that supernaturally
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00:17:54 <oerjan> oops i scared away freakpp
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00:21:18 <oerjan> apparently i scared away everyone else instead
00:22:47 * oerjan checks if the swatter is bullet proof
00:22:56 * GregorR drives in in a healthy human baby truck.
00:23:15 <oerjan> I'll have a large one, with extra fries!
00:23:29 <oklopol> i laugh at pretty much everything today
00:23:40 <GregorR> oerjan: Would you like to supersize that?
00:23:56 <oklopol> you mean like a healthy adolescent?
00:23:58 <GregorR> oerjan: Two smalls for 59¢ more than one large!
00:24:02 <oerjan> nah i'll have to watch my weight
00:24:14 <GregorR> OK, pick up at the first window.
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01:00:05 <lament> i want to try temperature feedback
01:00:23 <lament> the idea is, put a temperature sensor on your finger and try to adjust your own temperature
01:00:36 <lament> what's a good practical way to do this?
01:01:09 <lament> i.e. you need a fast temperature sensor and some way to tell that the temperature is changing up or down
01:01:47 <lament> i just tried an impractical way - put together a circuit which plays a sound the frequency of which changes when you heat up a transistor
01:02:43 <lament> it's too slow, not sensitive enough, and you get very tired very quickly of hearing the sound
01:04:56 <GregorR> Building an electronic mood ring?
01:05:25 <lament> oh, good point, mood rings do the same thing
01:05:39 <lament> but i think they're very slow
01:05:54 <lament> i just want a precise instantaneous thermometer
01:06:11 <GregorR> Mood rings are very slow, yes, that was a joke, not a suggestion :P
01:06:55 <lament> i guess mood rings are actually quite accurate
01:07:10 <lament> if they manage to map the normal body temperature range to a bunch of different colours
01:07:50 <lament> yeah, a fast mood ring would be ideal
01:08:21 <oerjan> i guess for speed you need to use a material that conducts heat well...
01:09:49 <lament> i've never used electronic thermometers, are they fast?
01:09:58 <lament> i know they exist and are sold in drug stores
01:30:05 <bsmntbombdood> go through someone that sells specialized sensing equipment
01:33:20 <GregorR> Specialized sensing equipment you say ...
01:33:27 * GregorR drives around his healthy human babies truck.
01:41:07 * oerjan realizes he has created a monster
01:42:18 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: http://spamusement.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11821
01:47:52 <oerjan> oh there's a poster with that name?
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07:24:38 <Figs> Does anyone here know the (proper) name for sliding block puzzles?
07:37:59 <Figs> When I look for that though, I get things related to the 15 puzzle.
07:38:21 <Figs> Which may be related, but isn't (directly at least) what I'm looking for
07:41:01 <Figs> Like, you know how in Zelda, Pokemon, and other games, there are some rooms where you have to slide a block across some ice?
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09:30:50 <AnMaster> I tested cfunge on openbsd (sparc64)
09:31:01 <AnMaster> it worked, couldn't get cmake to compile, got OOM when trying
09:31:10 <AnMaster> had to do some strange workarounds
09:31:25 <AnMaster> but anyway I see some weird stuff due to openbsd
09:31:36 <AnMaster> like asin(2) is 0.0000 not nan
09:31:54 <AnMaster> and for FIXP 2aaaa****J pushes 0
09:32:08 <AnMaster> on my linux box it pushes a large negative number
09:32:50 <AnMaster> Slereah_, yes but it is floating point
09:33:01 <AnMaster> but I guess sparc64 isn't strictly IEEE
09:33:31 <AnMaster> oh and why does the values for addresses in SCKE/SOCK differ...
09:34:30 <AnMaster> didn't manage to get the ncurses using extensions to build
09:37:54 <AnMaster> oh defines in ncurses mess up there
09:42:28 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: you didn't know what zelda and pokemon are?
09:42:52 <Slereah_> And who would win if Zelda fought a pokemon!
09:43:26 <AnMaster> Slereah_, I think that happened in some "supersmash bros" or something
09:49:35 <oklopol> "AnMaster: like asin(2) is 0.0000 not nan" <<< no, asin(2) is nan
09:49:50 <oklopol> the range of sine is [-1, 1]
09:50:08 <oklopol> i didn't read context, maybe i just misunderstood
09:52:13 * oklopol gives up and reads context
09:53:01 <oklopol> 11:31… Slereah_: asin(2) should be complex :o <<< i guess this is a better answer
09:53:35 <oklopol> it's just you rarely need sines of complexes
09:54:57 <AnMaster> oklopol, well not on this system
09:58:26 <oklopol> not on this system what? you rarely need them on that system, not a better answer on that system..?
09:59:03 * AnMaster facepalms. Why is OpenBSD headers not following POSIX
09:59:23 <AnMaster> they implement mmap() without defining _POSIX_MAPPED_FILES
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10:48:06 <AnMaster> oklopol: the asin() thing is a openbsd bug, fixed since last release
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13:31:42 <AnMaster> A warning: Never every try to provide help in any other distro channel than source based geeky ones like #gentoo. You end up headdesking a lot and thinking it is #ubuntu... Like trying to explain what "port forwarding" is...
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14:35:08 <ehird> [14:34:46] <AnMaster> [13:31:42] A warning: Never every try to provide help in any other distro channel than source based geeky ones like #gentoo. You end up headdesking a lot and thinking it is #ubuntu... Like trying to explain what "port forwarding" is...
14:35:14 <ehird> waah not everyone knows the technical knowledge I do
14:35:22 <ehird> real men use SOURCED BASED distros
14:36:21 <AnMaster> ehird, no but when you are still trying to do it after 10 minutes
14:36:31 <ehird> okay, you didn't mention that
14:46:22 <ehird> 23:51:16 <bsmntbombdood> what's zelda and pokeman?
14:46:22 <ehird> 23:52:34 <Figs> Video games
14:46:22 <ehird> 23:53:15 <bsmntbombdood> oh
14:46:22 <ehird> 23:53:15 <bsmntbombdood> lame
14:47:30 <ehird> 01:59:03 * AnMaster facepalms. Why is OpenBSD headers not following POSIX
14:47:40 <ehird> people aren't perfect? some software bugs if it's posix compliant?
14:49:33 <ehird> Minors under 16 years old use this site. Posting of obscenity here is punishable by up to 10 years in jail under 18 USC § 1470. Vandalism is punishable up to 10 years in jail per 18 USC § 1030. Harassment is punishable by 2 years in jail per 47 USC § 223. The IP addresses of vandals will be reported to authorities. That includes your employer and your local prosecutor.
14:49:36 <ehird> i love conservapedia
14:50:18 <Slereah> Post some goatse right now
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15:21:03 <ehird> Hmm. I have both ~/Junk, ~/Code/scraps, ~/Saved and ~/Downloads.
15:21:07 <ehird> Somehow this all makes sense to me.
15:21:23 <ais523> well, I have a similar organisation
15:21:37 <ais523> I have a massive ~/research folder which holds everything that I didn't write
15:21:56 <ehird> ~/Junk is my sandbox; I play with files and stuff there. ~/Code/scraps/YYYY-MM/ holds ephemeral bits of code from those dates.
15:22:13 <ehird> ~/Saved/YYYY-MM/ holds downloads and documents, etc, from those dates.
15:22:27 <ehird> ~/Downloads is an ephemeral folder holding things I download; never non-empty for more than a few hours.
15:24:44 <ehird> I love how much "Save Lisp and Die" sounds like a biker slogan.
15:25:02 <AnMaster> I have ~/src ~/unknown ~/tmp ~/irc and a few others
15:25:14 <AnMaster> ~/src holds my own code and stuff where I follow svn or such
15:25:27 <ehird> ~/unknown holds old ones
15:25:43 <ais523> given that I spend nearly all my time programming, most of my programming projects are just directly off ~
15:25:49 <AnMaster> ehird, for me it holds stuff I found in ~ and ~/Desktop that seem interesting or important but I have no clue about
15:26:14 <AnMaster> including for example some sql dumps
15:26:21 <ehird> AnMaster: That would be ~/Saved/YYYY-MM/ in my system
15:26:29 <AnMaster> I have ~/irc/fn/esoteric/ehird
15:26:56 <AnMaster> contains ehird-python-lambda-bot.py for example
15:28:07 <ehird> The sb-ext:truly-the special form declares the type of the result of the operations, producing its argument; the declaration is not checked. In short: don't use it.
15:28:08 <ehird> — Special Operator: sb-ext:truly-the value-type form
15:28:08 <ehird> Specifies that the values returned by form conform to the value-type, and causes the compiler to trust this information unconditionally.
15:28:18 <ehird> Consequences are undefined if any result is not of the declared type -- typical symptoms including memory corruptions. Use with great care.
15:28:19 <ehird> (truly-the fixnum 3)
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15:40:50 <oklopol> i take pride in keeping my whole file system so disorganized and things so randomly named no one, including me, can find anything in there.
15:41:29 <ehird> and became a zombbie
15:41:49 <ais523> my file system is more or less organised enough that I can find things in a few tries
15:42:48 <ehird> i can't wait for plan10 and I'll just use the damn ubiquitous search. :P
15:43:35 <ais523> I was actually thinking blue-skies about how to do something more unixy than unix
15:43:40 <oklopol> well the mind is somewhat of a splay tree, so it doesn't matter what organization one uses.
15:43:41 <ais523> I ended up with a crazy design
15:43:57 <ais523> where everything had 8 standard filehandles rather than 3, regardless of whether it was running or not
15:44:06 <ais523> and individual characters in files had creation dates
15:44:34 <ehird> ais523: to be more unix, you have to be more worse is better
15:44:34 <oklopol> ehird: well, that's why i keep mine disorganized, why do something inherently suboptimal locally optimally.
15:44:36 <ehird> I think that fails that
15:44:47 <ehird> oklopol: yeah it's just in the meantime :<
15:45:18 <ais523> ehird: well, put it this way
15:45:21 <ais523> you know what grep does?
15:45:32 <ais523> it has an option to put the filename and number at the start of each match
15:45:40 <ais523> now, why is that grep-specific?
15:45:45 <ais523> it would be a lot more unixy to be able to do that to anything
15:45:57 <ehird> actually, I think there cannot be something more unixy than unix
15:46:00 <ais523> so the idea is a program that identifies which files things came from
15:46:02 <ehird> you run in to worse is better immediately
15:46:12 <ehird> because unix works ok in practice, it has mastered the UNIX nature
15:46:28 <ais523> well, maybe my idea isn't unixy
15:46:39 <ais523> the basic rule is that no program should have any command-line options
15:46:51 <ais523> apart from optionally one pipe that gives it information to operate on
15:46:56 <ais523> like a list of files, for instance
15:47:29 <oklopol> god i hate command-line options... (i probably shouldn't talk about oses :o)
15:49:10 <ehird> oklopol: i hate your face
15:49:13 <ehird> not so nice now is it :|
15:49:14 <oklopol> and that whole unix pipeline thing, i mean sure it's great compared to not having it, but seriously, how can anyone not see it's great because you can treat the programs syntactically like functions in the command line, and that you should just actually make them functions
15:49:30 <ehird> because unix is crap
15:49:42 <ehird> my face is crappy crap crap
15:49:51 <oklopol> but it's nicer than my face anyway.
15:51:02 <oklopol> should probably go again, don't talk while i'm gone.
15:51:24 <ehird> so ais523 -- now that oklopol has gone --
15:51:54 <oklopol> ais523: and individual characters in files had creation dates <<< this sounds like the recording everything ideology, the problem is it's done for an arbitrary subset of information, kinda defeating the use it normally has.
15:51:56 <ehird> TALK TALK TALK TALK TALK
15:52:12 <ais523> oklopol: well, I am planning to record everything, really
15:52:22 <ais523> but when thinking of ideas, I just work out what's necessary for them to work
15:52:43 <ehird> that's just plan11.
15:52:56 <ais523> knowing exactly what has to be recorded gives you more flexibility than just recording everything
15:56:12 <oklopol> so how come everytime i decide to make a program snippet well i realize doing it well would require me to make a massive intelligent framework for stuff similar to it, and i start getting syntax ideas for an esolang based on that task
15:57:15 <oklopol> anyway, i refuse to acknowledge your hey.
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15:59:57 <ehird> oklopol: whut kind of framework in question whuz this
16:04:18 <oklopol> basically i was just making a program that randomizes the order in which i should do my stuffs.
16:08:05 <oklopol> maybe i'll explain next seventh of september
16:09:23 <ehird> Haha, a message by Andrew Cooke of malbolge fame, sent via deja.com, in 2000, commenting on the then-new SBCL fork of CMUCL, with this sig:
16:09:27 <ehird> http://www.andrewcooke.free-online.co.uk/index.html
16:09:33 <ehird> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
16:09:35 <ehird> Also, he used uppercase letters.
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16:22:43 <ehird> >> What is correct way to write the next "sbcl" command in "clisp" ? The
16:22:54 <ehird> >> main problem is that we have not "save-lisp-and-die" command in clisp.
16:22:56 <ehird> > http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/image.html
16:22:58 <ehird> > If you require a memory corruption feature ("and-die"), you will have
16:22:58 <ehird> > to implement it yourself as a CLISP extension.
16:24:23 <ais523> deja.com redirects to google groups nowadays
16:30:29 <ehird> I was just commenting on the vintageness
16:33:27 <ehird> the fun thing about save-lisp-and-die is that the -and-die part is arguably a bug
16:33:37 <ais523> what does save-lisp-and-die do?
16:33:47 <ais523> freezes the state of the program and exits?
16:33:59 <ehird> ais523: pretty much, it's an SBCL function. saves the current Lisp to a resumable core file
16:34:09 <ehird> you can do :executable t to get a binary of a lisp program
16:34:13 <ehird> the -and-die part, well
16:34:18 <ehird> as I said, arguably a bug:
16:34:20 <ehird> the process of dumping the lisp to a core image corrupts its memory beyond recovery
16:34:27 <ehird> so the only thing you can do after dumping the image is kill the process
16:34:37 <ais523> does the process of loading the core image corrupt the image beyond recovert?
16:34:45 <ais523> if not, you could just reload instantly and keep going
16:34:54 <ehird> that's what you essentially do
16:34:58 <ehird> ais523: or, fork then dump
16:35:01 <ehird> but most of the time you don't want to use it
16:35:04 <ehird> only for deployment
16:35:14 <ehird> and even then just bundling sbcl with the app is 'preferred'
16:35:23 <ais523> why does dumping corrupt memory anyway?
16:35:44 <ehird> ais523: I'm not sure
16:35:50 <ehird> it's some complicated reason
16:36:35 <ehird> [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-02/standalone-lisp] % sbcl --load hello-world.lisp --eval '(deploy)'
16:36:36 <ehird> [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-02/standalone-lisp] % ./hello-world
16:36:36 <ehird> [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-02/standalone-lisp] % time ./hello-world
16:36:46 <ehird> ./hello-world 0.01s user 0.01s system 90% cpu 0.025 total
16:36:46 <ehird> [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-02/standalone-lisp] % ls -lh hello-world
16:36:47 <ehird> -rwxr-xr-x 1 ehird staff 25M 23 Feb 16:35 hello-world
16:36:49 <ehird> ^ dumps are large, especially executable ones
16:37:03 <ehird> commercial lisps have a 'tree shaker', which removes unused functions from the generated image
16:37:07 <ehird> but they're difficult
16:37:10 <ehird> and the overhead is constant anyway
16:37:31 <ehird> so, e.g., a very large "enterprise" lisp app will be more on the order of 100MB than 500MB
16:38:17 <ehird> ais523: it's also kind of a hack: it relies on the fact that all common object file formats ignore garbage at the end of file
16:38:21 <ehird> so it just dumps sbcl, then the image
16:38:31 <ehird> kind of like perl's __END__
16:38:43 <ais523> there's no real need to rely on that fact, is there?
16:38:51 <ais523> couldn't you just mark the region as initialised data or something?
16:38:56 <ehird> ais523: the alternative is relying on the system's linker
16:38:58 <ais523> that would have exactly the same effect, but be legal
16:39:02 <ehird> and not everyone has a C development environment
16:39:15 <ais523> well, the alternative alternative is knowing what the object file format is
16:39:46 <ehird> implementing the whole object format?
16:39:49 <ehird> what a waste of time
16:40:25 <ehird> ais523: here's the source of hello-world.lisp in the above example:
16:40:26 <ehird> http://paste.lisp.org/display/76026
16:41:27 <ais523> looks surprisingly complex
16:41:45 <ehird> the start is the standard package prelude, then a trivial main function
16:41:58 <ehird> then it's just save-lisp-and-di to hello-world, executable, and the toplevel is (main) (quit)
16:42:44 <ehird> ais523: the more conventional way is to just do (save-lisp-and-die "hello-world.core"), then include sbcl and a shell script that does:
16:42:50 <ehird> sbcl --core hello-world.core --eval '(progn (main) (quit))'
16:43:04 <ehird> this way is tidier though
16:45:05 <ehird> ais523: you could put this in a library so it becomes
16:45:19 <ehird> (defun deploy () (deployer:deploy "hello-world" #'main))
16:46:03 <ais523> and that's how you compile Lisp
16:46:17 <ehird> ais523: 'compile' != 'produce standalone executable'
16:46:27 <ehird> in the conventional sense, that's how you compile a lisp pr ogram
16:48:53 <ehird> about 0 people cared about that rant there, I think
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16:54:30 <oklopol> i was gonna say hello too, but there was no common pattern :<
16:54:50 <oklopol> because of the lack of comma
16:56:20 <ais523> who is it that normally ruins patterns around here anyway
16:56:38 <ais523> and I think to continue the pattern I'd have to omit a few more characters
16:57:34 <Hiato> what about {h,e,l,o,k,p} -> use appropriately
16:58:03 <oklopol> i don't see why it'd be hellooklopo
16:58:13 <oklopol> i guess you could just be erasing the other way
16:58:15 <ais523> I was removing a character from the end of each word, including punctuation
16:58:34 <ais523> hell oklopo probably fits the pattern better, though
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16:59:03 <oklopol> wonder why Hiato left so early :)
16:59:26 <oklopol> ...anyway back on topic it's actually Hell oklopo
17:00:02 <oklopol> H -> h -> H you sillypants
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17:10:19 <ehird> hmm, oklopol, have you ever invented a language and then just like sat there admiring it and you realise that you don't actually want to write the program you made it for
17:13:43 <ais523> ehird: you still have a language to admire
17:13:46 <ais523> so it's still a good thing
17:13:57 <ehird> yeah, but then I realise all programs are pointless and I just sit there :-D
17:15:29 <ais523> languages can be more fun than programs in them
17:15:38 <ais523> I've never written a program in Eodermdrome, but I still sit there admiring it
17:16:33 <oklopol> languages are usually more fun than programs.
17:17:26 <oklopol> ehird: no not really, since i usually don't make my languages for a real purpose.
17:17:40 <oklopol> i usually build them around a small proof-of-concept
17:27:47 <ehird> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0475.html
17:28:06 <ehird> ((Descends into discussion of localizing the whole thing, I am not shitting you))
17:50:32 <GregorR> I bet you "color" is the more common spelling :P
17:51:09 <ais523> heh, many programs have UK and US localisations
17:51:14 <ais523> and I think "the" is actually the most common spelling
17:54:14 <GregorR> If you're going to play that stupid game, "a" is almost certainly more common.
17:55:39 <ais523> "the" is the most common word in English
17:55:44 <ais523> by pretty much every count that people have tried
18:00:44 <ehird> the the the the the the the the the
18:00:48 <ehird> HA! Even more common.
18:00:55 <ehird> aubergine aubergine aubergine aubergine aubergine aubergine aubergine aubergine aubergine aubergine aubergine
18:09:25 <AnMaster> ehird, this language you mentioned
18:09:36 <AnMaster> "<ehird> hmm, oklopol, have you ever invented a language and then just like sat there admiring it and you realise that you don't actually want to write the program you made it for"
18:09:48 <ehird> AnMaster: actually, not one right now, I was just thinking of previous occurances
18:10:41 <AnMaster> it looked like you were trying to solve an urgent and deep emotional relation problem towards a language you just created.
18:11:27 <oklopol> but turned out it was just gas
18:12:00 <ehird> AnMaster: languages beat me as a child :(
18:12:34 <AnMaster> ehird, I see. You should get some professional help then to avoid post-programming trauma
18:12:49 <ehird> corrupted memory. every day.
18:12:53 <AnMaster> ehird, if you have emacs try M-x doctor
18:14:16 <ehird> AnMaster: http://pastie.org/397602.txt?key=f8979ft6x7ffg800ibxkaq
18:15:01 * lament buffer-overruns ehird's brain
18:18:04 <AnMaster> ehird, try asking it about taking your own life or such, it is anti-fun
18:18:21 <AnMaster> ehird, oh and it is also fun to insult it
18:18:50 <AnMaster> ehird, like telling it "I want to kill myself!"
18:19:04 <ehird> I am the psychotherapist. Please, describe your problems. Each time you are finished talking, type RET twice. Richard M Stallman is my father. Do you know Stallman?
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18:20:24 <AnMaster> ehird, other fun things: try to play doctor back at it
18:20:46 <ehird> Bot feedback loops tend to work better with more advanced AI than eliza
18:21:10 <AnMaster> ehird, it detects it sometimes and say stuff like "I'll ask the questions here please!"
18:21:26 <AnMaster> ehird, did you see how I meant with "anti-fun" bvtw?
18:27:43 <lament> Tell me more about ask the questions here please!
18:32:09 <oklopol> lament: have you ever seen a duck?
18:32:19 <lament> oklopol: yes, repeatedly.
18:32:37 <oklopol> and have you ever seen on continuously?
18:33:07 <ais523> oklopol: that's boring, you should have corrected the corrections rather than the string
18:33:20 <ais523> that way all your corrections are correct to
18:33:58 <oklopol> but you know i'm always correcting a substring of an earlier message anyway.
18:34:06 <oklopol> so i'm just correcting the substring after *
18:34:27 <oklopol> don't worry, it doesn't lose generality, just optimization
18:37:50 <ehird> unary is so stupid
18:38:24 <ehird> voila, corrected the correction in the same way.
18:38:31 <ehird> what am I ranting about again
18:41:58 <oklopol> that solves the problem of which substring you're fixing (for stuff with plenty whitespace), but you still don't know what you're correcting
18:56:26 <ehird> oklopol: the last line with errors.
18:58:58 <ehird> oklopol: actually, most of the time you could just use *
18:59:07 <ehird> since if someone knows you have an error they probably know the rpelamcent
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19:15:34 <ehird> my real name is indeed ^H5
19:18:07 <ais523> ehird: what sort of parents put a literal backspace in someone's name?
19:18:12 <ais523> that's as bad as the whole bobby tables thing
19:18:26 * ais523 wonders if there's a real life bobby tables, XKCD can be very influential sometimes
19:18:43 <oklopol> well there's a www.gameparadise.com in usa
19:18:57 <ehird> ais523: I much prefer ^C:!rm -rf ~<RET> as a name.
19:19:03 <ehird> It, ehm, improves tast.e
19:19:13 <ais523> ehird: a name designed to annoy vi users?
19:19:24 <ehird> How to make it an emacs polyglot...
19:19:36 <ais523> the characters in emacs for that aren't even in standard character sets
19:19:45 <ais523> well, meta-! is 163, isn't it?
19:19:53 <ais523> so it would depend on what character encoding you were using
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20:30:11 <ehird> Another thing they are trying to do is cut all the hard words out of the English language. They are changing it to make it more simple so that people will not be too clever or think too much. --simple english wikipedia on 1984
20:36:13 <ehird> Percent means out of one hundred. It is often shown with the symbol "%". It is used even if there are not a hundred items. The number is then scaled so it can be compared to one hundred. For instance, four hot lesbians are rubbing and spanking in bed, three of them are white and one is black. The percentage of white lesbians is 3 out of 4 = 3/4 = 75/100 = 75%.
20:43:11 * oklopol thought the part before the lesbians was funnier
20:43:45 <oklopol> (then again i guess you'd explain what percentages mean in an article about percentages.)
21:17:22 <AnMaster> ehird, you read XKCD today I see
21:19:36 <AnMaster> * ais523 wonders if there's a real life bobby tables, XKCD can be very influential sometimes <-- oh dear.. I hope not too much in this case...
21:20:42 <oklopol> just wanted to make sure no one would congratulate me
21:22:15 <AnMaster> oklopol, gratulerar i efterskott
21:22:24 <AnMaster> not sure how you say that in English
21:22:46 <AnMaster> it means like retroactive congrats
21:24:06 <olsner> sorry, eating chips, can only type with one hand
21:24:14 <AnMaster> olsner, how do you translate "gratulerar i efterskott"
21:24:30 <AnMaster> olsner, how did that northbridge taste?
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21:25:59 <oklopol> "i congratulate you after i shoot you"
21:27:16 <ais523> AnMaster: apparently bash 4 has just been released
21:27:27 <AnMaster> more like "I wish I could have congratulated you when it happened, but I didn't know about it and thus send my retroactive congratulations"
21:27:32 <AnMaster> ais523, whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
21:27:38 <GreaseMonkey> GNU bash, version 3.2.25(0)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd7.0)
21:27:51 <AnMaster> GNU bash, version 3.2.39(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
21:27:54 <ais523> it's still stealing good ideas from zsh, it seems
21:28:10 <ais523> GNU bash, version 3.2.39(1)-release (i486-pc-linux-gnu)
21:28:17 <oklopol> AnMaster: i know what it means, i would've known what you meant even if you'd said "garble garble florble florble".
21:28:18 <ais523> wow, I'm using almost exactly the same version as AnMaster
21:29:36 <GreaseMonkey> wow. i haven't updated my ports tree in quite some time.
21:29:51 <AnMaster> http://www.bash-hackers.org/wiki/doku.php/bash4
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21:30:16 <GreaseMonkey> hmm... looks like they've added simutrans to the ports list
21:30:16 <AnMaster> declare -A declares associative arrays (see below).
21:30:41 <GreaseMonkey> i had to build it myself and IIRC had to hack a few things up
21:31:02 <GreaseMonkey> i recall looking through the source and finding that someone accidentally set the mixer speed to 22500 instead of 22050
21:34:31 <GreaseMonkey> (as opposed to simutrans in the last few lines)
21:34:57 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, I used simutrans on gentoo for ages
21:35:19 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, and bash 4.0 is new
21:35:30 <GreaseMonkey> there's one main difference between 99.14 and 99.15
21:35:44 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, I'm using 100.something?
21:35:46 <GreaseMonkey> that's pretty much the only difference i noticed
21:36:05 <AnMaster> I need to update the port then
21:36:16 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, and yeah newer versions are slower
21:37:22 <GreaseMonkey> also, if you use SDL_mixer, you can get it to play files other than just MIDI
21:38:45 <AnMaster> I listen to classical music all the tame
21:39:03 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, what is new in 101?
21:39:17 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, I'm just going to update the ebuild for it and recompile
21:39:36 <oklopol> AnMaster: and do you listen to death metal all the wild?
21:39:53 <ais523> http://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/bash/NEWS seems to be the changelog
21:40:12 <oklopol> (yes, also mine didn't make much sense, the problem is classical music isn't really that "tame", so i just took a random genre.)
21:40:46 <AnMaster> oklopol, I like Vivaldi's summer for example, which is anything but tame
21:41:02 <oklopol> yes, i've heard most of the famous stuff
21:41:18 <ais523> it seems they stole ** from zsh, ehird will probably be either happy or angry at that
21:41:31 <oklopol> i like winter, the rest are only good in the parts that are copied from winter.
21:41:45 <AnMaster> Kraus? in some cases he is like Mozart + (vivaldi's summer - vivaldi's spring)
21:43:08 <AnMaster> http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.554777
21:43:33 <AnMaster> hope you can find VB 140 IV. Allegro on youtube
21:44:09 <GreaseMonkey> q. A new `-E' option to the complete builtin allows control of the default behavior for completion on an empty line.
21:45:21 <AnMaster> what do you think is the best new feature?
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21:45:25 <AnMaster> I think it is associative array variables
21:46:14 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, can you test something
21:47:10 <oklopol> wow. they added a feature even quickbasic doesn't have!
21:48:39 <oklopol> nevermind, it's a complex programming joke
21:48:52 <oklopol> also may require some serious misunderstanding about what you're talking about
22:02:23 <GreaseMonkey> argh wtf simutrans 101 crashed when i placed a stop <_<
22:18:23 <ehird> 13:20:28 <oklopol> oh btw i *am* 20
22:18:23 <ehird> 13:20:42 <oklopol> just wanted to make sure no one would congratulate me
22:18:33 <ehird> quantum spacetime rip
22:19:06 <ehird> <ais523> AnMaster: apparently bash 4 has just been released
22:19:11 <ehird> how many versions behind zsh now? ;-)
22:19:29 <ehird> finally. I think that was in zsh 1.
22:19:49 <ehird> <AnMaster> declare -A declares associative arrays (see below).
23:11:03 <ehird> I'ma invent an esolang
23:11:06 <ehird> haven't done that in a whiles
23:11:22 <ehird> it will be based on bicycles.
23:11:52 <psygnisfive> the mac was first intended to be a bicycle.
23:13:41 <ehird> okay, I think I have a language idea.
23:13:54 <ehird> sub-TC, but there are non-trivial halting and non-halting programs. all looping is done via cyclic program lists
23:14:11 <ehird> halting problem is solvable ofc
23:15:13 <ehird> now i gotsa figures it out how to makes it work
23:18:15 <oklopol> psygnisfive: only? i thought i was rather childish.
23:18:44 <oklopol> you mean those things you can bike with
23:18:53 <ehird> and also make cycles with.
23:19:34 <oklopol> can you use it both for algorithmic purposes and for getting to the shop?
23:19:46 <ehird> yes. if you attach a bicycle to your computer, that is, for the latter.
23:19:55 <ehird> the cord should be long.
23:21:13 <oklopol> awesome. but maybe you should have a wireless network instruction for when you need to go see your uncle in bosnia?
23:22:00 <ehird> oklopol: my basic idea is you start with a sub-tc loopless language, then add a cycle special form that takes a list (= code) and cyclicifies it
23:22:56 <ehird> getting this _useful_ is difficult :D
23:30:08 <ehird> hm maybe i should base it on little inferrant tics in the cyclestream
23:46:49 * ehird drafts objectivist c spec
23:48:04 <oklopol> ö, like we say here in finland
23:48:28 <oklopol> (and by that i mean i say, and no one else knows what i mean)
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23:59:52 <ehird> From hq9++ interpreter:
23:59:54 <ehird> 'OO portion of ++ command isn't implemented yet
23:59:54 <ehird> 'this shouldn't have much bearing on program execution... I think
23:59:59 <ehird> and yet it still implements the accumulator