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00:38:40 <nooga> porting mobile app written on windows to iphone -> 10022 errors
00:41:51 <oerjan> ^ul ((:*)::*^S:):(f)~^(u)~^(c)~^(k)~^(!)~^
00:42:45 <oerjan> ^ul ((:*)::*^^S:):(f)~^(u)~^(c)~^(k)~^(!)~^
00:42:45 <fungot> ffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00:49:14 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
00:49:26 <oerjan> even EgoBot doesn't have that
00:50:35 <nooga> ^sadol !+*"1f+99*"1u+99
00:51:20 <nooga> !sadol !+*"1f+99*"1u+99
00:51:20 <EgoBot> BDSM: Invalid argument types for '*': string, integer (index: 2, row: 1, col: 3)
00:51:44 <oerjan> GregorR accepts patches
00:52:10 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/
00:52:33 <GregorR> hg bundles would be nice :P
00:54:12 <oerjan> nooga: you can also add things via the *interp commands, if it's written in a single file in a language that is already there
00:54:20 <oerjan> (although that doesn't recurse)
00:54:40 <oerjan> (programs can be URLs)
00:54:52 <oerjan> that's how i added slashes
00:55:02 <EgoBot> addinterp: !addinterp <name> <language> <code>. Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type !<name> <subcode>, and receive the program code as input.
00:55:55 <nooga> but written in C++
00:56:13 <GregorR> !cxx cout << "I can do C++" << endl;
00:56:53 <coppro> heh... !addinterp c++ /msg geordi
00:57:37 <nooga> http://regedit.gamedev.pl/BDSM/
00:58:00 <nooga> compile it and voila
00:58:37 <nooga> at least unless my SADOL->x86 compiler written in ruby will be finished ;F
00:59:03 <GregorR> Huh ... this seems to be the same version I already have ...
00:59:38 <GregorR> Yeah, that's the version I have.
00:59:45 <EgoBot> BDSM: Invalid argument types for '*': string, integer (index: 1, row: 1, col: 2)
01:00:01 <nooga> but it should multiply the string like perl does
01:00:29 <GregorR> I don't know why that's not doing what you expect, but that is the version I have.
01:02:27 <GregorR> Is Sadol newline-sensitive perchance?
01:03:08 <nooga> that string multiplication was my private patch
01:09:32 <GregorR> I should add a command like !addfullinterp <name> <url> <compiled interp name> that downloads code, extracts it, configures it (if applicable), builds it, and !addinterps it
01:13:26 <nooga> !sadol ~m2(6:r"0:s#_0:n#_1:i0@<in(2]rs:i+i1r !+m"1f+99m"1u+69
01:13:26 <EgoBot> ffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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01:14:33 <GregorR> !sadol (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:14:34 <EgoBot> (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:14:44 <nooga> reversed one is cooler
01:15:01 <GregorR> !sadol http://regedit.gamedev.pl/BDSM/99_bottles_of_beer.sad
01:15:03 <EgoBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.
01:15:15 <nooga> jaro3000 wrote it in his head when he was on his way to school
01:17:12 <nooga> huge brain, he won Polish OI
01:18:09 <nooga> OI -> Olympiad in Informatics
01:18:49 <EgoBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall,
01:19:32 <nooga> since when this is an international pub? :d
01:19:54 <oerjan> you know, i think 99 bob should be a kind of milestone for such things, like beethoven's 9th for cds
01:20:06 <oerjan> iow, please increase the limit
01:20:37 <oerjan> also, it might be nice if the dcc chat repeated the first line
01:21:38 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
01:22:01 <oerjan> EgoBot: you are a bit confused
01:22:10 <nooga> i think... sadol code looks quite cool, but the language is totally lame :C
01:22:20 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
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01:23:34 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
01:25:30 <GregorR> nooga: http://www.debian.org/ :P
01:25:54 <nooga> !sadol ~m2(6:r"0:s#_0:n#_1:i0@<in(2]rs:i+i1r !m"5hate 5
01:25:54 <EgoBot> BDSM: Executing: Invalid argument for ']' - single character expected (index: 28, row: 1, col: 29)
01:25:58 <oerjan> GregorR: EgoBot hates digits?
01:26:08 <GregorR> oerjan: Only 'show' did :P
01:26:23 <nooga> !sadol ~m2(6:r"0:s#_0:n#_1:i0@<in(2:r+rs:i+i1r !m"5hate 5
01:26:23 <EgoBot> hate hate hate hate hate
01:26:41 <nooga> !sadol ~m2(6:r"0:s#_0:n#_1:i0@<in(2:r+rs:i+i1r !m"5hate 9
01:26:41 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unsupported character: '' (index: 40, row: 1, col: 41)
01:27:27 <GregorR> I see there are still no shafuck programs.
01:30:31 <Sgeo> I am going to kill AVG: http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/avg_annoyance.PNG
01:31:15 <GregorR> Sgeo: Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl
01:35:27 <EgoBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall,
01:36:49 <EgoBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall,
01:37:25 * oerjan is just testing dcc_autochat_masks
01:37:52 <puzzlet> but why does it assume the source ends with newline
01:38:00 <GregorR> That's just how it's passed in.
01:39:13 <EgoBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall,
01:39:17 <EgoBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall,
01:41:21 <lifthrasiir> !sadol `````````",246",241",236",231",226",221",216",211"9!"6Hello!
01:41:44 <nooga> wtf? trying to kill eval?
01:42:34 <nooga> hmm, i'll try to implement towers of hanoi in sadol ;f
01:44:41 <GregorR> Y'know what I just realized? It's easy to write one particular program in ShaFuck ...
01:44:50 <GregorR> The null program is a valid program that does nothing.
01:51:51 <nooga> it does a segfault :D
01:52:33 <oerjan> GregorR: how embarassing :D
01:52:49 <oerjan> <GregorR> The null program is a valid program that does nothing.
01:53:06 <GregorR> That makes it trivially simple to write a program :(
01:54:06 <lifthrasiir> GregorR: is there any nontrivial shafuck program?
01:54:30 <GregorR> There almost certainly /is/ in that such a thing could exist, but it would take billions of years to find one.
01:59:00 <Sgeo> GregorR, how did you test the interpreter?
01:59:27 <GregorR> Sgeo: I removed the sha'ing part to make sure the BF part worked, and made it output the sums to make sure the SHA'ing part works.
02:00:07 <Sgeo> I should declare war on the warp
02:00:08 <lifthrasiir> hmm, assuming that f(h0..h4, chunk) is a SHA-1 compression function where chunk is 512 bits long, the calculated brainfuck program is f(f(...f(0x67452301, ..., 0xC3D2E1F0, first 512 bits of chunk), next 512 bits), ...), last 512 bits, fixed 512 bits 0x8000...002000). maybe.
02:00:35 <GregorR> SHA-1 is a compression function now. Interesting.
02:00:37 <lifthrasiir> (since SHA-1 preprocesses the chunk by appending padding and original length)
02:01:09 <GregorR> Compression isn't useful if it's irreversable and not 1-to-1 ...
02:01:49 <lifthrasiir> GregorR: SHA-1 consists of preprocessing step and compression function, and compression function merges previous hash with current block of data
02:04:13 <lifthrasiir> if we have to search the program space exhaustively, we could use that construction as shortcut; only last two application of "f" is needed, other application remains same and precalculated
02:04:32 <nooga> darwin ports don't work
02:07:14 <Sgeo> So, when can we expect the first ShaFuck hello world?
02:07:46 <Sgeo> ascii version?
02:08:14 <bsmntbombgirl> ascii encoding of brainfuck, rather than the 3 bit encoding
02:08:46 <lifthrasiir> Sgeo: unlikely, even MD5 is not totally broken (afaik best attack against MD5 is chosen-prefix attack, but it requires the known prefix)
02:08:48 <Sgeo> Is there a standardized 3bit encoding?
02:09:40 <Sgeo> I was asking out of curiosity
02:09:41 <lifthrasiir> bsmntbombgirl: does that treat any non-command chars as error?
02:09:56 <nooga> dude transformed to girl again?
02:11:48 <Sgeo> Creatures gender-bending: http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/genderconf.png
02:14:30 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: that is what makes it so hard, it is essentially impossible to find a legal program
02:14:48 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: right, it's surely harder than malbolge
02:14:52 <oerjan> while with a 3-bit encoding you get something legal to start combining
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02:20:27 <lifthrasiir> Sgeo: Unary maps 0..7 to ><+-.,[]; MGIFOS maps 1..8 to ><+-.,[]; Braincopter maps 0..7 to ><+-.,[] and treats 8..10 special.
02:21:04 <lifthrasiir> (okay, mapping for two ternary digits is an another story)
02:21:38 <lifthrasiir> <Sgeo> Is there a standardized 3bit encoding?
02:21:47 <Sgeo> I meant what was that about mapping to ternary
02:22:25 <Sgeo> Wow, it's almost like "?" is completely ambiguous as to what the question's about
02:22:41 <lifthrasiir> Sgeo: for example, Ook maps every command to two ternary digits (actually the "digit" is one of Ook. Ook? Ook!)
02:24:32 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.26421: line 1: ls/interps: No such file or directory
02:24:39 <lifthrasiir> there are several cases maps bf commands to similar thing; Cupid uses the digit of >, < or - and so on.
02:25:41 <oerjan> !sh ls -l interps/unlambda
02:25:42 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: interps/unlambda: Function not implemented
02:28:44 <oerjan> !sh ls interps/underload
02:29:13 <oerjan> !sh echo '(test)S' | interps/underload.bin
02:29:13 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.26570: line 1: interps/underload.bin: No such file or directory
02:30:05 <oerjan> !sh echo '(test)S' | interps/underload.bin -
02:30:05 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.26599: line 1: interps/underload.bin: No such file or directory
02:30:51 <oerjan> !sh echo '(test)S' | interps/underload/underload.bin
02:30:51 <EgoBot> Usage: derl (-o|-a) [inputfile]
02:31:18 <oerjan> !sh echo '(test)S' | interps/underload/underload.bin -
02:31:18 <EgoBot> Usage: derl (-o|-a) [inputfile]
02:31:27 <oerjan> !sh echo '(test)S' | interps/underload/underload.bin -o -
02:31:27 <EgoBot> -: No such file or directory
02:32:29 <oerjan> !sh echo '(test)S' | interps/underload/underload.bin -o
02:32:29 <EgoBot> testAttempt to execute unknown command 10
02:33:02 <oerjan> !sh echo -n '(test)S' | interps/underload/underload.bin -o
02:36:46 <lifthrasiir> hmm, is there any idea how to implement a half of bit data type? (like TURKEY BOMB)
02:38:12 <lifthrasiir> well TURKEY BOMB's BI_IT type is 0.528 bits, anyway
02:42:18 <GregorR> oerjan: It took you a lot of tries to get that :P
02:49:39 <Sgeo> BI"Two thirds of a bit plus half a trit. "
02:50:15 <lifthrasiir> Sgeo: yes, that holds 2/3 log_2 2 + 1/2 log_2 3 bits = approx. 0.528 bits of information.
02:50:46 <lifthrasiir> anyway i wonder that there is general principle for such types containing fractional number of bits
02:51:35 <Sgeo> Is TURKEY BOMB implemented?
02:51:37 <Sgeo> Or implementable?
02:52:39 <Sgeo> "A structure containing three other types, specified at compile-time, all of which must be different, one of which must be another HUMIDOR. " sounds impossible
02:53:01 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: cannot access interp/egobf: No such file or directory
02:53:06 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: cannot access interp: No such file or directory
02:53:28 <Sgeo> I wanted to try programming in it
02:54:24 <GregorR> !sh ls interps/egobf | xargs echo
02:54:25 <EgoBot> AUTHORS COPYING ChangeLog INSTALL Makefile Makefile.am Makefile.in NEWS PORTING README aclocal.m4 config.h config.h.in config.log config.status configure configure.ac scripts src stamp-h1
02:54:30 <oerjan> !sh ls interps/egobf/scripts | xargs echo
02:54:30 <EgoBot> compile depcomp install-sh missing missing-real
02:54:45 <oerjan> where the heck is the binary?
02:55:02 <oerjan> !sh ls interps/egobf/src | xargs echo
02:55:03 <EgoBot> Makefile Makefile.am Makefile.in bfc.c bfc.h bfi.c bfi.h c2m c2m.c c2m.h egobfc egobfc-bfc.o egobfc-egobfi.o egobfc-optimize.o egobfc2m egobfc2m-c2m.o egobfc2m-egobfi.o egobfi-wib egobfi-wib.in egobfi.c egobfi.h egobfi16 egobfi16-bfi.o egobfi16-egobfi.o egobfi16-optimize.o egobfi32 egobfi32-bfi.o egobfi32-egobfi.o egobfi32-optimize.o egobfi64 egobfi64-bfi.o egobfi64-egobfi.o egobfi64-optimize.o egobfi8 egobfi8-bfi.o egobfi8-egobfi.o egobfi8-optimize.o
02:56:20 <oerjan> !sh echo '++++++++[->++++++++<]>.' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi8
02:57:07 <oerjan> addinterp ook perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ook.egobot.pl
02:57:11 <oerjan> !addinterp ook perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ook.egobot.pl
02:57:14 <EgoBot> Interpreter ook installed.
03:00:00 <oerjan> !ook Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook.
03:00:01 <EgoBot> No comma allowed after filehandle at /tmp/input.27191 line 15.
03:00:24 <EgoBot> Interpreter ook deleted.
03:00:27 <oerjan> !addinterp ook perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ook.egobot.pl
03:00:28 <EgoBot> Interpreter ook installed.
03:00:31 <oerjan> !ook Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook.
03:00:31 <EgoBot> Can't exec "interp/egobf/src/egobfi8": No such file or directory at /tmp/input.27276 line 13, <> line 1.
03:00:58 <EgoBot> Interpreter ook deleted.
03:01:00 <oerjan> !addinterp ook perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ook.egobot.pl
03:01:01 <EgoBot> Interpreter ook installed.
03:01:03 <oerjan> !ook Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook.
03:02:47 <oerjan> !ook Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook.
03:04:09 <oerjan> !ook ++++++++[>+++++++Ook. Ook.<-]>.
03:04:22 <oerjan> !ook ++++++++[>+++++++Ook. Ook. <-]>.
03:04:43 <pikhq> !sh cd interps/egobf/src ; make
03:04:44 <EgoBot> make: Nothing to be done for `all'.
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04:26:08 <oklodok> ais523: i cracked nim for the three number case.
04:27:36 <oklodok> cracked as in found all triples that lose
04:29:26 <oklodok> but the "formula" describing them contains such a beautiful set of permutations there must be something very simple behind it, but it escapes me, as i'm just studying behavior, not actually trying to solve from the recursive definition of winning (which would require intelligence)
04:30:04 <oklodok> also if someone, after hearing this, tells me how it works and it's so simple it fits a line
04:30:22 <oerjan> oh. i will not do that yet then.
04:31:04 <oklodok> i wanna solve this, this is already my third attempt, and this time i actually managed to solve enough to trivially beat ais523's enigma level, so it's at least somethin
04:31:45 <oklodok> well okay first two attempts weren't really attempts, i was just looking for a trivial solution by enumerating the possible levels
04:34:15 <oklodok> gah, why can't i be like a super math genius or something
04:35:51 <oklodok> oerjan: on a scale from one to seven, how complex would you say the rule describing win-states is
04:36:41 <oerjan> mind you, given you know the necessary concepts.
04:36:51 <oerjan> but i am absolutely sure that you do.
04:37:10 <oklodok> does, say, ehird know them?
04:37:19 <Sgeo> What's going on?
04:37:33 <oerjan> i would be surprised if there was a regular in this channel which didn't
04:37:40 <oklodok> Sgeo: i'm asking oerjan about a thing i don't want him to tell me about.
04:38:07 <Sgeo> What are the necessary concepts?
04:38:10 <oerjan> also there are probably several others who know the actual solution from before.
04:38:21 <oerjan> Sgeo: if we told that, it would be trivial
04:38:23 <oklodok> Sgeo: that's what i don't want to know
04:39:08 <oerjan> oklodok: as a small consolation, i don't think i deduced the solution myself before reading it
04:41:05 <oklodok> hmm. probably the fact the permutation thingie i found arises from the solution is more mathematically significant than the actual solution is.
04:41:29 <oklodok> which is what usually happens when trying to reverse-engineer sequences i guess.
04:43:00 <pikhq> Nim... Nim... Oh, yeah. That was a weird game.
04:45:39 <oklodok> meh, i'll give up for now, and retry in a few months.
04:46:16 <oklodok> hopefully no one tells me the solution so it can be my life's work.
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06:37:44 <bsmntbombgirl> READ char -1 temp temp -1 char temp -1 NULL temp QUIT char WRITE -1 char char CODESTART char: 0 temp:
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07:38:21 <GregorR> <bsmntbombgirl> READ char -1 temp temp -1 char temp -1 NULL temp QUIT char WRITE -1 char char CODESTART char: 0 temp:
07:40:44 <GregorR> That was just so purely context-free it was amazing ;P
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07:50:08 <GregorR> I still want to see a MISC implementation though, MISC has a nice compact binary format. (The fundamental instruction in subleq and MISC is the same, right? Like, there's no difference on 0 or whatnot)
07:50:37 <GregorR> And it has to not be written by me, because if it was I'd end up making a MISC ELF file format, and nobody wants that.
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07:54:57 <GregorR> Err, sorry, didn't mean "compact" :P
07:55:02 <GregorR> Really just meant "nice" :P
07:55:13 <GregorR> It's actually anything but compact, of course.
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08:00:44 <GregorR> That /is/ why the system call is called unlink.
08:00:53 <GregorR> After all, if it was removed, then multiply linked files would be really wonky.
08:01:29 <GregorR> That's the only reason why anyone would say the line <bsmntbombgirl> that's why the system call is called "unlink"
08:01:37 <GregorR> I was trying to act psychic, in a silly way :P
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08:29:29 <psygnisfive> a language in which there must be no ambiguity as to what is applied to what, thanks to types
08:30:50 <psygnisfive> i imagine that for a large number of functions the notation would require that it be completely prefix or completely postfix
08:31:10 <psygnisfive> and i guess obviously in postfix notation there never /is/ ambiguity so..
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13:44:56 <lereah_> No one would happen to know how to do a statistical distribution that is, while random, constrained to have a fixed sum?
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13:56:58 <AnMaster> lifthrasiir, how do you do the polynom bit
13:57:15 <AnMaster> the optimisation page seems outdated
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14:04:23 <AnMaster> oerjan, did you write IWC today?
14:05:04 <oerjan> it's not like DMM is unknown for puns
14:06:32 <AnMaster> oerjan, yeah but it was exactly in your pun style
14:08:11 <oerjan> hm sure it's not more like a reddit pun thread
14:08:29 <oerjan> of course i assume that's geeks everywhere
14:11:16 * oerjan decides .sss is a good extension for slashes files
14:21:59 <AnMaster> oerjan, did you manage to implement BCT in it?
14:22:05 <AnMaster> or are you still working on it
14:22:30 <oerjan> i'm currently rewriting my counter program to use the much simpler method
14:22:37 <oerjan> it is now simple enough to do by hand
14:46:49 -!- darthnuri has joined.
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14:51:36 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter2.sss
14:52:17 <oerjan> yay, EgoBot managed 89 lines
14:52:29 <oerjan> some improvement from 2 :D
14:54:18 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube*
14:54:24 <fungot> Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics)
14:54:28 <fungot> lereah_: oh, really? does he do american standard or freestyle?
14:54:31 <fungot> lereah_: if we're in the matrix." and over here, and here. recent releases. just pick one, and give it to me.
14:55:03 -!- asiekierka has joined.
14:55:13 <fungot> asiekierka: fucking refs. those calls were bullshit! huh? bullshit, right? i don't think i want anymore.
14:55:21 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa* speeches ss wp youtube
14:55:27 <fungot> Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics)
14:55:43 <oerjan> ah this time EgoBot hit the byte limit instead of time
14:56:44 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
14:56:51 <fungot> Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual)
14:56:56 <fungot> lereah_: for a bug is in the current directory will be casted to an imaginary label preceding it.
14:57:13 <fungot> Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material)
14:57:18 <fungot> asiekierka: this reference guide is designed to do this successfully, you could copy the contents of a photograph).
14:57:58 <asiekierka> oh, so you CAN'T copy the contents of a photograph on the C64 unless you want to do this successfully? O_O
14:58:25 <fungot> Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings)
14:58:37 <fungot> asiekierka: slen. did her grand-sire leaue her seauen hundred pound? euan. i most unfeignedly beseech your lordship call her backe
14:58:39 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
14:58:54 <lereah_> fungot, let's have sex with little girls
14:58:54 <fungot> lereah_: fnord. all pale people are fnord no one can sing who has a cold.'
14:59:08 <lereah_> Does Lewis Carroll say fnord?
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15:09:35 <GregorR> Do you have some PROBLEM with 24?
15:11:00 <oerjan> i do. the day needs more hours.
15:15:09 <asiekierka> currently improving putc to support a more defined "charset"
15:19:33 -!- lereah_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:19:56 <fungot> Selected style: ff7 (Full script of the game Final Fantasy VII)
15:20:14 <pikhq> fungot: Winnitude.
15:20:14 <fungot> pikhq: over here. i'll see you.
15:25:38 <asiekierka> Oh woah, I actually finish $00-$7F (i currently ignore $00-$1F)
15:27:20 <asiekierka> So I ignore $00-20 (except 08 and 10) and process $20-$7F
15:29:18 -!- Sgeo has joined.
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15:46:46 <oerjan> So now the simpler counting program is on the wiki with some explanation.
15:48:19 <oerjan> It prints growing lines of asterisks
15:48:53 <oerjan> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Slashes#Simpler_counter
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16:03:10 <asiekierka> What my puts routing does now is output the first char, some spaces and the last char
16:05:08 <asiekierka> I did lda, inx and stx on the same value
16:07:01 <oerjan> i don't mean to imply that i _know_ 6502 asm
16:07:22 <oerjan> but i did write my own disassembler to peek into memory
16:07:44 <oerjan> which was a bit awkward as the manual lacked several pages of instructions
16:09:44 <asiekierka> ah, Oric-1 and it's awkward graphic mode
16:09:59 * asiekierka doesn't have stuff to reminisce cuz he's too young to see an Oric-1 in his life
16:10:41 <oerjan> it worked well enough for a bit of mandelbrot as i recall
16:11:31 <asiekierka> and you could only have 2 per a 6x1 block
16:12:52 <GregorR> asiekierka: Watch and learn.
16:13:07 <GregorR> I bought it three years before I was born, in a country I wouldn't go to for another 20 years.
16:13:15 <oerjan> technically it's in the drawer next to me
16:13:26 <GregorR> I learned BASIC on my Oric-1.
16:13:37 <oerjan> technically it's my father's
16:13:56 <asiekierka> if yes, then GO AND PLUG IT THE HELL ON
16:14:26 <oerjan> i recall it gave some horrible interference when i plugged it in
16:14:38 <oerjan> it may not be safe in a modern house
16:15:00 <oerjan> also, my only tv is in a closet
16:15:06 <asiekierka> Well, our "2nd channel" is so strong it actually went through the C64 RF cable
16:15:16 <asiekierka> so i could receive it (very weakly) through an RF cable
16:15:17 <GregorR> BUILT IN LANGUAGE Oric Extended Basic v1.0
16:17:21 * oerjan recalls graphing trigonometric functions with it
16:17:22 <asiekierka> oerjan: also, connect it to a TV tuner
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16:58:45 <nooga> after compiling half of gnu things i've managed to install irssi on this mac fuc
16:59:37 <ehird> "sudo port install irssi"
16:59:42 <nooga> yea, macports did that for me :D
16:59:52 <ehird> you made it sound more traumatic than it was then :p
17:00:41 <nooga> i'm getting used to this whole osx
17:00:54 <nooga> all in all it's quite pleasant
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17:01:43 <lifthrasiir> is there any sane irc client in mac os x, excluding console-based one?
17:01:52 <ehird> lifthrasiir: LimeChat!
17:01:58 <ehird> http://limechat.net/mac/
17:02:04 <ehird> (Ignore the stuff about RubyCocoa; the OS X version works fine.)
17:02:15 <nooga> i imagine that pleasure is comparable to having a big, warm cock in your anus
17:02:38 <ehird> Let's just imagine the conversation died for 5 minutes.
17:02:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:02:49 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:02:56 <GregorR> Why do people never get this distinction: The anus is just the opening, the RECTUM is the cavity :P
17:03:09 <nooga> i don't know about this stuff
17:03:15 <nooga> i'm not homosexual
17:03:59 <ehird> i'm lauxesomoh, basically I'm only homosexual if I'm going backwards in time
17:04:14 <nooga> wo, limechat looks better than colloquy
17:04:20 <ehird> that's because it is.
17:04:34 <ehird> colloquy's a buggy piece of crap that tries to avoid saying "channel" :p
17:04:43 <nooga> let me DELETE colloquy.app from my Applications
17:04:57 <ehird> oh, and this theme is nice: http://julianstahnke.com/read/a_theme_for_limechat_colloquial/
17:05:10 <ehird> the default ones seem to be either out of place or ugly
17:06:11 <nooga> but now i've got my irssi D:
17:06:26 <ehird> nooga: you came out with some libraries and shit too
17:06:32 <ehird> i bet irssi didn't take long to install at all
17:06:39 <ehird> it's not even compiled iirc, i think it's written in perl
17:07:07 <nooga> but ports compiled perl, ncurses, glib, gettext and other stuff
17:07:14 <ehird> so you come out with that
17:07:53 <ehird> i mean the time spent installign irssi is not wasted if you like limechat :P
17:08:54 <nooga> excuise me, i not understand
17:09:14 <ehird> 17:06 nooga: but now i've got my irssi D:
17:09:17 <ehird> i thought that meant like
17:09:21 <ehird> but i just spent all this time installing irssi
17:09:25 <ehird> i can't like limechat
17:10:06 <nooga> it's just that i like irssi and i don't see a reason for installing lime
17:10:25 <ehird> 'cuz lime's more maclike and better :p
17:12:13 <nooga> it's written in ruby
17:12:26 <nooga> i just loved it instantly :F
17:12:52 <ehird> nooga: remember you don't need to install rubycocoa
17:12:58 <ehird> the one in recent osxs works
17:15:32 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal").
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17:16:03 <nooga> yea, i figured it out
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17:17:30 <nooga> ugly themes are ugly
17:17:53 <ehird> nooga: use the Colloquial one :P
17:18:21 <ehird> although you have to click the alert to get rid of it, I'm not sure why
17:18:26 <ehird> probably you can fix that in growl settings
17:18:47 <nooga> where was that theme?
17:18:52 <ehird> http://julianstahnke.com/read/a_theme_for_limechat_colloquial/
17:21:23 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
17:22:51 <nooga> now it's white and cool
17:22:59 <ehird> nooga: logs aren't enabled by default btw
17:23:07 <ehird> you have to enable Transcripts in the prefs if you want them
17:23:57 <ehird> if you're not in many channels you can resize the bottom window to nonexistance
17:24:04 <ehird> since it just shows messages from channels you're not looking at atm
17:24:37 <nooga> thanx, did it at the beginning
17:25:31 <nooga> any other useful apps that you'd recommend?
17:27:06 * ehird glances at dock. I use Adium for inferior-to-IRC IM services, I edit some stuff with TextMate (and other stuff in other editors :p)... apart from that... eh... I use Seashore for basic image editing stuff? And Transmission for torrents. And I have a few VM apps. Oh. And Enigma's quite a fun game. That's pretty much all I use
17:27:17 <ehird> Oh, and I use Audacity for basic audio editing. My app selection is quite an uninteresting one.
17:28:26 <nooga> i can't afford textmate :D
17:29:02 <nooga> adium, transmission; got them
17:29:14 <ehird> nooga: It's $65... BBEdit, the "standard" Mac editor since the System 7 days, costs $99.
17:29:23 <ehird> So it's quite a deal ;-). You can pirate it anyhoo.
17:29:23 <nooga> isn't enigma a remake of oxyd?
17:29:36 <ehird> enigma's a remake + extension + lots of levels of oxyd and similar games
17:29:48 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: what
17:29:52 <nooga> ah, played oxyd magnum under dos
17:29:55 <nooga> and enigma under linux
17:30:07 <ehird> enigma's #esoteric's official computer puzzle game :p
17:30:18 <ehird> well. official unofficial.
17:30:20 <ehird> you know how it is
17:30:59 <ehird> nooga: I THINK YOU SHOULD INSTALL ECLIPSE IS VERY GOOD JAVA ID*blown to bits*
17:32:10 <Slereah> "It may seem perverse to use a computer, that most precise and deterministic of all machines conceived by the human mind, to produce "random" numbers"
17:35:13 <nooga> can't crack textmate ;d
17:35:24 <ehird> nooga: search for a shady serials website and search for textmate there.
17:36:46 <ais523> hey, a mac botnet was discovered
17:36:56 <ais523> it seems that people put trojans into "cracked" software
17:37:05 <ais523> and got people to install the botnet software that way
17:37:14 <ehird> ais523: you can't get trojans off serial keys.
17:37:23 <nooga> it's not linux, i don't feel secure
17:37:26 <ehird> also, that usually happens more with the Gnutella type networks than bittorrent
17:37:31 <ehird> nooga: it's based on freebsd
17:37:34 <ehird> if anything you should feel more secure :p
17:38:11 <nooga> there are no such things like fishy cracks and shady warez for linux ;p
17:38:21 <ehird> nooga: sure there is
17:38:28 <ehird> I pirated Mathematica, you can get mathematica on Linux
17:38:43 <ehird> anyway, there aren't fishy/shady cracks/warezes on OS X; I've only seen serial keys
17:38:55 <ehird> for mathematica i had to fire up a windows vm
17:43:40 <ais523> ooh, the EC just fined Intel £948m
17:43:59 <ais523> it's the same bunch of people who keep fining Microsoft for anticompetitive practices, it seems they think Intel has been up to much the same thing
17:44:00 <nooga> ehird: what's with my home, end and del keys?
17:44:08 <ehird> nooga: what about them
17:44:18 <ehird> ais523: 948 million pounds ?!
17:44:34 <ais523> yep, that might almost be large enough to actually make a dent
17:44:37 <nooga> end and home jump to end and beginning of a file
17:44:49 <ehird> ais523: hell yes; Intel/AMD profits haven't been too good lately
17:45:01 <ais523> Intel are apparently planning to appeal
17:45:01 <nooga> i'd like s/a file/a line/
17:45:04 <ehird> Revenue▼ US$37.6 billion (2008)[1]
17:45:04 <ehird> Operating income▲ US$9.0 billion (2008)
17:45:05 <ehird> Net income▼ US$5.3 billion (2008)
17:45:11 <ehird> ais523: hardly surprising
17:45:20 <ehird> Ctrl-A, ctrl-E (from emacs)
17:45:34 <nooga> and delete does not work
17:45:40 <ais523> ugh, a drop from $5.3 to $3.8 or so is quite a massive dent in net income
17:45:40 <ehird> nooga: which delete
17:45:43 <ehird> forward or backwards
17:45:46 <ais523> no wonder Intel are so annoyed
17:46:04 <ehird> ais523: £948m is pretty damn excessive...
17:46:17 <ehird> i mean, even if they are guilty
17:46:28 <ais523> apparently it was for bribing manufacturers to not use AMD chips
17:46:31 <ehird> unless they killed kittens or sth
17:46:56 <ais523> <BBC News> In addition to providing rebates to manufacturers that bought almost entirely Intel products, the Commission found that the chipmaker had paid them to postpone or cancel the launch of specific products based on AMD chips.
17:47:02 <ehird> ais523: it's more like "we'll cut this deal on our chips you want IF you avoid using amd chips in more than n% of your products"
17:47:03 <ehird> or something like that
17:47:16 <ais523> yep, where n% is close to 0
17:47:33 <ais523> there was that case a while back where AMD gave some manufacturer loads of free chips, and they refused to use them
17:47:34 <ehird> this is a pretty quick decision
17:47:40 <ehird> I only heard about the case yesterday or the day before
17:47:43 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:47:45 <ais523> and the case has been going for ages
17:47:50 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:47:57 <ehird> 17:47 ais523: there was that case a while back where AMD gave some manufacturer loads of free chips, and they refused to use them
17:48:00 <ais523> it hit the news a couple of days ago because the probable verdict leaked
17:48:01 <ehird> that would suggest to me that these bribes are gigantic
17:48:24 <ais523> ofc, there are other reasons to not use a load of free chips, say if it would be too expensive to redesign your machinery to install them
17:48:29 <ehird> maybe they can handle the fine if they stop offering them :-)
17:48:53 <ehird> In [Commodore] PET Microsoft Basic (3000 series only), typing the command “WAIT 6502,100” will fill the screen with the text "MICROSOFT!"[5]
17:48:57 <ais523> the thing I love about all these fines is that they're added to the EU tax budget
17:49:02 <ais523> which indirectly means lower taxes for us
17:49:09 <ehird> let's fine every company!
17:49:34 <ais523> only if they do something illegal
17:49:39 <ais523> although, most companies do, probably
17:49:44 <ehird> let's declare being a company to be illegal :|
17:49:47 <ais523> and corporation tax is at about 30% or 40%, IIRC
17:50:28 -!- Dewi has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)).
17:50:53 <ehird> I wonder why people use Intel/Nvidia and AMD/ATI and rarely other combinations (even before AMD bought ATI)
17:51:26 <pikhq> That's really weird, especially since for a while Nvidia made very good AMD chipsets.
17:52:15 <ehird> Terrible theory: AMD seem to use more black and dark blue and red and other dark-sort-of-feeling colours in their marketing, and so does ATI. Intel is white and blue, Nvidia is light green. Perfect fits.
17:53:40 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
17:53:58 <ehird> "TODAY IS SO YESTERDAY." — intel.com
17:54:01 <ehird> http://www.intel.com/
17:55:05 <ehird> "They would have paid their ad men more to come up with a slogan, but they've been fined a billion euros for breaching competitivity law." —friend, on seeing that
17:55:18 <ehird> everything related to current events is hilarious.
17:55:54 <ehird> http://www.nvidia.com/object/GeForce_3D_Vision_Main.html ← 1. Sell 3D glasses for a load of money 2. Claim it's revolutionary 3. Profit
17:56:16 <pikhq> ais523: The EU has been fining quite a few companies for antitrust.
17:56:41 <pikhq> To be fair, they *are* legitimate cases.
17:56:58 <pikhq> The US's stance on monopolies lately has resulted in a repeat of the early 1900s. ;)
17:57:13 <ais523> I agree, /someone/ needs to enforce the rules
17:57:27 <pikhq> And the US sure isn't.
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17:57:40 <nooga> from 10022 compilation errors i've got 9991
17:57:46 <ehird> [["Copy Exactly" solves the problem of getting production facilities up to speed quickly by duplicating everything from the development plant to the volume-manufacturing plant.]]
17:57:47 <ehird> Yo dawg, I herd u liek fabricators so I made a fabricator for your fabricator so you can fabricate your fabricators
17:57:52 <pikhq> (I suspect they've forgotten how to)
17:58:02 <ehird> pikhq: There are people in the US who think that the current crisis is due to not enough people reading Ayn Rand.
17:58:12 <ehird> If the free market is causing issues, clearly what we need is MORE of a free market!
17:58:17 <pikhq> ehird: Ayn Rand is an idiot.
17:58:37 <pikhq> People who agree with Ayn Rand are people who need a Darwin Award.
17:58:40 <ehird> MARKET AWESOMENESS AS FREENESS INCREASES: Crap, Awful, Terrible, Unbearable, Crisis shitter, AWESOME
17:59:10 <pikhq> "Hmm. Lack of regulation caused this. Obviously, we need to bring back Standard Oil."
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18:14:34 <nooga> is there some tool that is capable of building #include diagram ?
18:14:52 <nooga> to clearly show the whole graph, what includes what
18:15:15 <ais523> but i do't know of one
18:15:30 <nooga> so i am supposed to write that?
18:15:30 <ais523> thanks for the correction
18:15:42 <ehird> nooga: wouldn't be hard
18:15:59 <ehird> anyone remember the atari st
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18:35:37 <Asztal> doxygen can, I believe
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19:05:19 * AnMaster is trying to come up with an elegant way to merge across distance in the tree of bf instructions
19:06:55 <AnMaster> finding that previous set to offset, and then convert into for
19:11:47 <nooga> the graph came out little.... hairy
19:12:28 <nooga> how to adjust vertical distance between nodes? they're packed A BIT too tight
19:15:21 <AnMaster> no idea (I don't use graphviz much), check man page?
19:15:43 <nooga> i have no idea which property does it
19:52:08 -!- tombom has joined.
20:06:22 -!- asiekierka has quit.
20:08:13 <nooga> wanna see the graph? :D
20:11:40 <nooga> http://sv017.sendspace.pl/file/J2ey9Jf9/XuZGdVBByJRfdqhI/test.pdf ;D
20:15:15 <Slereah> Your face is pretty cool bro
20:15:32 <nooga> Your fece is pretty cool bro
20:20:33 -!- darthnuri has joined.
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20:21:49 <ehird> [[British pub has exploited a loophole in the country's smoking ban by opening a "smoking research centre"]]
20:21:59 <ehird> SCIENCE WILL TRANSCEND FASCISM!
20:28:33 -!- tombom_ has joined.
20:32:20 <fizzie> I think some sort of smoking-room at our university was labeled that.
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20:32:25 -!- puzzlet has joined.
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20:35:49 <GregorR-L> I'm on SUPERSLO public WiFi at an airport
20:38:34 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: \o/
20:38:47 <ais523> well, my computer's here, because if it was somewhere else I couldn't IRC using it
20:38:58 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: boot it up without putting it together
20:39:03 <ehird> that's something that takes real skill
20:39:09 <ehird> telepathic wires in the astral plane
20:39:30 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: do eet
20:39:40 <ais523> what sort of computer is it?
20:39:41 <ehird> what os you putting on it? still undecided? :P
20:40:02 <ehird> ais523: the one I assembled the parts for
20:40:06 <ais523> and you may as well try out the OS it has at the moment (presumably Vista?), to see if you like it
20:40:06 <ehird> to replace his crusty p4
20:40:14 <ehird> he bought it in parts'
20:40:29 <ais523> well, the choice would be a Linux distro, FreeDOS if you're insane, or Windows System Builder
20:41:03 <ehird> tl;dr summary: Core i7 940 @ 2.9ghz... 12GB DDR3 RAM... ancient nvidia card... Intel X25-M 80gb ssd... 1TB storage drive
20:41:41 <ehird> final cost I think was $1,700 or so, right bsmntbombgirl?
20:41:53 <fizzie> You left out the most important detail of all: what color it is.
20:41:56 <ehird> ps did you go and have another sex change?
20:42:08 <ehird> fizzie: the case is the oh-so-uncommon computer colour black
20:42:11 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:42:19 <fizzie> Black is the new beige.
20:43:32 <pikhq> And beige is the new white.
20:43:33 <ehird> things that confuse me: people commenting on expensive computers saying "what a waste you could buy a car with that money". why would you buy a car if you use your computer much more?
20:43:36 -!- nooga has joined.
20:43:42 <pikhq> (beige Apple computers in 3, 2, ...)
20:43:56 <ehird> pikhq: Macs are alumininium these days.
20:44:02 <pikhq> ehird: These are people that use their cars more.
20:44:16 <pikhq> ehird: Except iMacs.
20:44:29 <ehird> the imacs are aluminium
20:44:38 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: \o/
20:44:52 <ehird> pikhq: the only white product is one of the low-end macbooks
20:44:57 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: how loud is it?
20:44:59 <Asztal> what graphics card, out of interest?
20:45:11 <ehird> Asztal: it's a really shitty passive nvidia :)
20:45:16 <pikhq> Aluminium is the new white.
20:45:22 <pikhq> And beige is the new aluminium!
20:45:24 <ehird> well okay not that shitty
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20:45:35 <GregorR-L> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/PowerBook_redjar.jpg
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20:45:36 <ehird> i can't believe anyone actually liked beige
20:45:36 <bsmntbombgirl> i am switching monitor and keyboard back and forth
20:45:47 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: what did it boot in to
20:46:12 <ehird> GregorR-L: yeeees?
20:46:27 <pikhq> Nobody liked beige. Beige was merely a convenient color.
20:46:30 <GregorR-L> ehird: Oh I'm sorry, you were talking about the modern PowerBook Pros, that's a Powerbook G4
20:46:44 <ehird> GregorR-L: Modern powerbook pros?
20:46:50 <ehird> You mean modern macbooks
20:46:58 <ehird> Power anything went with intel
20:47:04 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: what did it boot into?
20:47:11 <GregorR-L> You'd think I'd be able to tell that since I'm staring right at a (non-pro) MacBook X_X
20:47:29 <ehird> GregorR-L? Using a mac?
20:47:57 <pikhq> Ah; early computers were beige so that they wouldn't stand out in an office.
20:48:05 <fizzie> Back when I got the iBook, el-cheapo iBooks were white, while all really-someone people had those titanium PowerBooks.
20:48:05 <pikhq> So, beige was used because beige is boring.
20:50:19 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: ping
20:50:57 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: you said it booted, what did it boot in to :
20:52:23 <GregorR-L> Wow, that's one lame definition of "booted"
20:52:39 <ehird> More accurate: POSTed
20:52:40 <ais523> did you then get the no-OS error?
20:52:49 <ehird> Insert OS and press F1.
20:53:53 <ehird> YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE SHIT UP AND EXPECT THE COMPUTER TO MAGICALLY KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN, RETARDO!
20:53:59 <ehird> [Press F1 to continue]
20:54:35 <pikhq> [Press F1 to continue]
20:54:54 <GregorR-L> Critical failure computer will explode in 15 seconds omfgrunrunrun
20:55:11 <fizzie> The P150 laptop I have here is sort-of mid-gray, that's not such a common color: http://www.pcrtp.com/700CDT.gif (not exactly that model, but I think it's the same housing)
20:56:08 <fizzie> http://www.toshiba-europe.com/bv/computers/products/notebooks/tecra730cdt/index.shtm
20:56:28 <ehird> fizzie: Heavy duty.
20:56:33 <fizzie> "Raw speed. A 150 MHz Intel Pentium processor and PCI bus provide the kind of speed that would have been practically unthinkable in a notebook PC. Until today!"
20:56:34 <ehird> "Raw speed. A 150 MHz Intel Pentium processor and PCI bus provide the kind of speed that would have been practically unthinkable in a notebook PC. Until today! Now there's the Tecra 730CDT. "
20:56:59 <GregorR-L> "Raw speed. A 150 MHz Intel Pentium processor"
20:57:11 <ehird> It has a 150MHz pentium!
20:57:12 <fizzie> The 12.1" TFT at 1024x768 resolution is essentially as good as in my iBook, though.
20:57:19 <pikhq> Not even a Pentium MMX. Lawlz.
20:57:22 -!- ehird has changed nick to slowpoke.
20:57:24 -!- slowpoke has changed nick to slowpoke_.
20:57:25 <GregorR-L> ehird: Just not /much/ raw speed >_>
20:57:44 <fizzie> (Except that with only 2 megs of video RAM, you have to degrade to 64k colors if you want the native panel resolution.)
20:57:51 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to Egolitarian.
20:57:59 <pikhq> ... Is that a Pentium with the *FDIV* bug? :)
20:58:06 <fizzie> Yes, I think it has the bug.
20:58:27 -!- slowpoke_ has changed nick to ehird.
20:58:30 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:58:39 <fizzie> I seem to at least recall Linux kernel saying something like "FDIV bug detected, working around it" in dmesg.
20:58:53 <ehird> "2160 million bytes hard disk"
20:58:54 <Egolitarian> There was a line of m68ks that didn't have an FPU, and furthermore would crash and burn horribly if you tried to use an FPU operation, even though it's supposed to just have an unsupported instruction interrupt.
20:59:04 <ehird> Two thousand one hundred and sixty MILLION bytes!
20:59:07 <Egolitarian> They used them it Macs, and you can't install Linux on them :P
20:59:22 <ehird> http://www.toshiba-europe.com/bv/computers/navigation/left/products/page_icons/pi_tecra730cdt.gif Look at the red-faced man in the suit!
20:59:34 <fizzie> They certainly are proud of their big numbers.
20:59:36 <fizzie> "the 2.16 billion byte hard disk and 16 MB EDO RAM (expandable up to 144 MB - yes that's one hundred and forty four MB)"
20:59:46 <fizzie> YES THAT IS REALLY 144 IT BOGGLES THE MIND
20:59:57 <fizzie> I think I have 48 MB in that thing.
21:00:05 <ehird> "Lithium-ion battery Up to 3.0 hours"
21:00:11 <ehird> Up to THREE HOURS of CONTINUOUS USE!
21:00:37 <fizzie> Also 6-speed CD-ROM drive; which is unable to read CD-RW discs; only CD-R discs work.
21:00:41 <Egolitarian> ehird: I doubt I'd get three hours of use on this (if I was compiling every version of OpenOffice in the background)
21:01:19 <pikhq> fizzie: Nice, a nearly 2G hard drive. ;)
21:01:20 <ais523> a 2.16 billion byte hard disk, but only 144 MB of memory?
21:01:23 <ais523> that's rather unbalanced
21:01:35 <ehird> "No beep - Power supply, system board problem, disconnected cpu, or disconnected speaker, "
21:01:38 <ehird> — wikipedia on POST
21:01:40 <fizzie> pikhq: I've replaced the original 2.16 billion byte HD with a 2G compactflash card, though.
21:01:56 <ehird> It actually purposefully signals no beep.
21:02:07 <pikhq> You could probably stick 16G microdrive in there without too much issue.
21:02:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:02:46 <ehird> "3 long beeps - 3270 keyboard card"
21:02:50 <ehird> Oh shit, your system is really broken?
21:02:54 <ehird> What's wrong with it?
21:03:01 <ehird> Well, y'see... it's 3270 keyboard carded.
21:03:23 <pikhq> ehird: A system without a keyboard controller can't enter 32-bit execution.
21:03:59 <pikhq> Because enabling 32-bit mode involves sending a message to the keyboard controller, since that happened to have a free I/O line.
21:04:16 <ehird> the chimes of death >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post error beeps
21:04:46 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: how's your new system working? fried it yet?
21:07:06 <pikhq> That's right: to enter 32-bit execution, you send a signal to the keyboard controller to *get it to stop hogging the 21st address line*.
21:08:30 <pikhq> And modern motherboards merely emulate that behavior, because 386 motherboards did it.\
21:08:35 <fizzie> You don't have to actually implement a full keyboard controller, you can do a system which has enough of the framework in place so that the A20 line..
21:09:11 <pikhq> God, i686-pc-* is such a screwy architecture.
21:12:23 <fizzie> And the whole possibility of disabling the A20 line (forcing that bit 0) was there because they wanted the 286 to be backwards-compatible for some dirty DOS programs that assumed the memory to wrap-around when it went past 1 MB, since the original 8086 didn't have that many address lines.
21:13:07 <pikhq> So it's cludge after cludge.
21:13:27 <ehird> I'm pretty sure Nehalems are entirely backwards compatible to the original x86.
21:13:38 <ehird> It's rather entrenched.
21:13:47 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: bah?
21:13:51 <Egolitarian> I'm surprised they're not backwards-compatible with the original 4004 :P
21:14:02 <ehird> Egolitarian: IA32 only. :-P
21:14:05 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: ... why?!
21:14:05 <pikhq> Egolitarian: The 8086 wasn't backwards-compatible.
21:14:22 <pikhq> ehird: IA16, you mean.
21:14:26 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: what os did you brun
21:14:29 <ehird> pikhq: True enough.
21:14:53 <ehird> You can't run IA16 code on IA32/AMD64 machines.
21:15:02 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: masochist :)
21:15:16 <pikhq> It is in fact necessary.
21:15:18 <fizzie> FreeBSD. Are you sure you want to do that? See: http://isometric.sixsided.org/strips/the_power_of_freebsd/
21:15:21 <tombom> there's nothing wrong with windows, don't be silly.
21:15:30 <pikhq> The processor starts in real mode, which is... IA16.
21:15:31 <ehird> tombom: I will now shoot you.
21:15:39 <ehird> tombom: I suggest suicide to avoid trauma.
21:15:45 <pikhq> The processor goes into IA32 from there.
21:16:06 <ehird> also bsmntbombgirl: what fizzie said.
21:16:13 <ehird> i've wiped out planets just installing bsd.
21:17:28 <Egolitarian> You cannot run 16-bit real-mode code while in 64-bit mode.
21:17:30 <fizzie> But you can no longer run 16-bit code when the processor is in the native x64-64 "long mode", which is a pity. Well, at least the "virtual 8086" mode is gone from that, anyway.
21:17:39 <fizzie> Gah, why do I always conflict with people.
21:17:42 <ehird> you can't run 16 bit code
21:17:56 <pikhq> Yes. I never said you could.
21:18:07 <pikhq> I said that a Nehalem could still execute 16-bit code.
21:18:12 <Egolitarian> But the processor can run 16-bit code, just not while in 64-bit mode.
21:18:23 <ehird> You can't run, when in 64-bit long mode,
21:18:30 <Egolitarian> ..............................................
21:18:30 <ehird> on a modern IA32/AMD64.
21:18:37 <ehird> Guys, did you know that
21:18:42 <ehird> Ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis
21:18:44 <ehird> -ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis-
21:18:47 <ehird> -ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis-
21:18:50 <pikhq> IA32 is a different architecture from AMD64.
21:18:53 <pikhq> IA32 is a 32-bit architecture.
21:18:55 <Asztal> I did know that, it's why edlin was removed from x64 windows :(
21:18:56 <ehird> pikhq: Thus the slash.
21:19:09 <pikhq> And you can run 16-bit code on modern IA32.
21:19:12 <Asztal> not that I use edlin, but I just feel like it should be there
21:19:15 <ehird> Asztal: edlin was removed because ellipsis ellipsis ellipsis ell-
21:19:26 <pikhq> You can even run it on modern x86_64, just not in long mode.
21:19:35 <Egolitarian> Asztal: And yet, ed is still available for equally-stupid people on Unixen :P
21:19:40 <Asztal> it's the oldest program in windows and they just remove it like that
21:19:42 <ehird> Hey! I've used ed.
21:19:51 <ehird> And fruitful, sometimes.
21:19:55 <ehird> 21:19 Egolitarian: Asztal: And yet, ed is still available for equally-stupid people on Unixen :P
21:20:10 <ehird> "Although seldom used in modern times, Edlin may sometimes be used as an Edlin-script interpreter, in environments where no other editors exist. Scripts may look like Edlin command sequences and they may be run as:
21:20:11 <pikhq> Egolitarian: ed is about as old as ls. It's not ever going away. :p
21:20:16 <fizzie> They also removed DEBUG.COM from Windows 7. (I'm not sure what's the status of that in x64 windows; don't have any.)
21:20:16 <ehird> If no other editors exist, how did they create script?
21:20:31 <Egolitarian> I haven't seen ed used in a script in a very long time.
21:20:44 <pikhq> ehird: edlin can be used on its own.
21:20:49 <EgoBot> 47 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.+.+.+.+.>--. [52]
21:20:54 <ehird> pikhq: Yeah, but it's a silly way to say it :P
21:20:57 <EgoBot> 47 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.+.+.+.+.>--. [208]
21:21:16 <EgoBot> 47 +++++++++[>+++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>--.+.+.+.+.>+. [68]
21:21:17 <EgoBot> 47 +++++++++++[>+++++++++>+>><<<<-]>--.+.+.+.+.>-. [92]
21:21:17 <EgoBot> 47 ++++++++[>++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.+.+.+.+.>++. [124]
21:21:20 <ehird> maybe we can optamaze out the >><<
21:21:29 <AnMaster> ehird, it runs too few iterations for it
21:21:56 <AnMaster> two different, equally long solutions
21:22:54 <fizzie> The amount of cells to use (and therefore ><s in the loop) is a fixed parameter for the textgen.java thing that uses; you can specify it on the command line, though, just not in the bot.
21:23:05 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/
21:23:27 <AnMaster> odd, where the hell did I put the checkout of egobot
21:23:28 <fizzie> 36 ++++++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.+.+.+.+. [1]
21:24:04 <ehird> fizzie: do -t 1000
21:24:28 <fizzie> ehird: It'll probably just use a single cell and do a 999-character >>...>><<...<<.
21:24:31 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: so, how much did the 12GB of ram speed up the post
21:24:52 <ehird> that thing takes up like a gajillion point four bytes of ram!
21:24:55 <fizzie> 114 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-]>+.+.+.+.+. [1316]
21:25:55 <pikhq> Out of immense curiosity, why doesn't that evolutionary algorithm use that for an upper-bound, rather than exactly what it'll use?
21:26:44 * pikhq asks him with in the library with a monkey wrench
21:26:53 <EgoBot> 47 +++++++++++[>+++++++++>+>><<<<-]>--.+.+.+.+.>-. [251]
21:27:09 <EgoBot> 38 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>-.+.+.+.>. [95]
21:27:09 <fizzie> I guess it's easier to do crossover when the structures of the programs are so very similar.
21:27:39 <pikhq> ... Because it's inefficient for all but some special cases?
21:27:55 <AnMaster> 27 +++++++[>+++++++<-]>.+.+.+. [1]
21:27:59 <fizzie> Yes; for sensible strings 4 seems to be rather sensible.
21:28:00 <AnMaster> is the best it come up with for 1234
21:29:00 <AnMaster> what does the -t one do really
21:29:29 <bsmntbombgirl> damnit, why can't you find a live cd when you need one
21:29:29 <fizzie> The number of cells it uses.
21:29:35 <fizzie> That's pretty obvious from the outputs.
21:29:52 <AnMaster> fizzie, can't it evolve that too?
21:30:01 <AnMaster> it's just another parameter after all
21:30:15 <fizzie> Oh, I'm sure it's *possible*; it just doesn't do it.
21:31:06 <fizzie> Like I said, it's probably a fixed number of terms so that it's easier to do a crossover mixture of two programs. (Though that's still just a guess; I didn't write it, after all.)
21:31:57 <AnMaster> $ java textgen -p 2 'Hello, World!'
21:32:00 <AnMaster> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: n must be positive
21:32:00 <AnMaster> at java.util.Random.nextInt(Random.java:250)
21:32:00 <AnMaster> at textgen.main(textgen.java:180)
21:32:47 <AnMaster> anything below 10 in population results in that
21:33:19 <fizzie> It should complain earlier.
21:33:28 <fizzie> My version has for -p:
21:33:31 <fizzie> population = Integer.parseInt(cmdline[n + 1]);
21:33:31 <fizzie> System.out.println("Must have population of at least 10.");
21:33:45 <fizzie> Er, I guess that test is botched. :p
21:33:59 <AnMaster> I have the copy from EgoBot's source
21:34:17 <fizzie> This is probably the same.
21:34:32 <fizzie> Anyway, it needs at least 10 because (by default) it keeps the top 10 % of the programs for next generation.
21:34:57 <fizzie> Though that's the "-%" parameter; and it doesn't test for -p+-% combined-sensibility at all.,
21:35:30 <AnMaster> !bf_txtgen To be or not to be that is the question.
21:35:32 <EgoBot> 283 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>++>++++++++<<<<-]>.>>>-.<++++.<<++++++++++++++.+++.>>.>.+++.<.<--.+.>>++.<.>.<<.>.<<---.+++.>>.>.<<<+++.-------.>+++++.>.<<++++++++.>-.>.<+.------------.---.>.<<++++++++.++++.>.<--.+.>++++.++++++.-.>++++++++++++++.------------------------------------. [862]
21:36:47 <AnMaster> 226 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>++>++++++++<<<<-]>.>>>-.<++++.<.+++.>.>.+++.<.>----.+.+++++.<.>.-----.<.<<++++++++++++++.>.>.>+++++.<<+++.<-.>>>.<.<+.>>-.<.>+.<<-.<++++.>>.<+++++++++.++++.<.>--.+.<++++.>-----.-.>++++++++++++++. [18913]
21:36:52 <AnMaster> is the best I got locally for it
21:37:00 <Gracenotes> well. You could just increment/decrement indiscriminately
21:37:05 <fizzie> It always has one loop.
21:37:13 <AnMaster> it could have more than one I think
21:37:20 <EgoBot> 55 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.+.-.+.-.+.-.+.-.>--. [391]
21:37:37 <EgoBot> 74 ++++++++++++[>>++++++++>++++++++++>+<<<<-]>>+.>++.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.>.>--. [205]
21:37:38 <fizzie> The program is always "p0 = N; p1 .. pT = N*(k1 .. kT); print things using the p1 .. pN numbers, sometime with +/- as needed."
21:37:39 <Gracenotes> perhaps if you recognized patterns. Keeping track of the variations and number of times to repeat might be cumbersome though
21:38:20 <fizzie> Er, the p1 .. pT numbers.
21:39:25 <fizzie> The Individual.getCode method is responsible for generating it; it is physically unable to generate more than just that one loop.
21:39:47 <EgoBot> 109 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>-.>+++.<---.+++++++++++++++++++++.++++.----.>+.--.<------.>>-. [845]
21:40:32 <AnMaster> 99 ++++++++++++++[>++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.++++.>>---.<++++.++++.----.<+.--.>------. [5697]
21:40:34 <fizzie> I assume it would take too long to just generally evolve an arbitrary brainfuck program to print out the desired string.
21:43:00 <AnMaster> !bf +++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++<<-]>--.>.-------.<+.>+.+++++.
21:43:25 <AnMaster> still, a simple folding pass over the string afterwards could remove those extra >><<
21:45:28 <EgoBot> 60 ++++++++++[>+>+++++>+++++><<<<-]>>--.+.>.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.<-.<. [171]
21:45:37 <EgoBot> 48 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>-.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.>. [242]
21:46:40 <EgoBot> 84 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+++++++++++>+><<<<-]>.>.<.>-.<.-------------.>>-----. [166]
21:46:57 <EgoBot> 84 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++++>+<<<<-]>+++++.>.>+++.>---. [32]
21:47:25 <fizzie> Hm, € needs 3 bytes in UTF-8? Well, I guess the currency symbols are pretty high up there.
21:47:30 <EgoBot> 134 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++++>++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>+++++.>.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>---.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.>---. [580]
21:47:55 <AnMaster> it gave me a 800+ char long string for that here
21:48:51 <fizzie> It is a bit random. Though that large a gap sounds unlikely. Maybe it got encoding-confused or something.
21:49:06 <AnMaster> more than 255 + after each other makes no snese
21:49:16 <AnMaster> unless the java here interprets it as unicode
21:49:42 -!- Egolitarian has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:49:56 <AnMaster> fizzie, http://rafb.net/p/jw47TY16.html
21:49:57 <fizzie> It might. € is at something past 0x2000, which is 8192 decimal.
21:50:47 <AnMaster> when reading from a file it gives sensible results
21:50:50 <fizzie> Java's native character encoding is UTF-16, and I'm guessing it's using the platform default (hopefully LC_CTYPE, though I have no idea if it is locale-aware at all) to interpret the command line arguments.
21:50:55 <AnMaster> but not when passing it on command line
21:51:33 <AnMaster> GregorR, that is a bf_txtgen bug!
21:51:40 <fizzie> You could try it with "LC_CTYPE=POSIX java ..." if you want. It might not make any difference, though.
21:52:06 <fizzie> Or "LC_CTYPE=C", that's shorter. I think they should mean the same thing.
21:52:22 <AnMaster> fizzie, anyway LC_CTYPE isn't set, LANG is.
21:52:29 <AnMaster> and that means LC_CTYPE defaults to that
21:52:29 <fizzie> Okay. Well, it's Java.
21:53:28 <fizzie> It's just a generic sort of answer.
21:53:33 <AnMaster> fizzie, what do you mean "<fizzie> Okay. Well, it's Java."
21:53:35 <fizzie> "Who knows why it works like that? It's Java."
21:54:24 <fizzie> It does do something locale-related, because if I write "LC_CTYPE=C.ISO-8859-1" I get three .s in the output for € (so three bytes) but a bit over 64k + characters.
21:54:53 <fizzie> I'm not sure if that sort of locale specification even makes sense.
21:55:06 <AnMaster> A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
21:55:10 <AnMaster> a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
21:55:32 <fizzie> "LC_CTYPE=en_US.ISO-8859-1 java textgen -t 1 €" seems to generate reasonable output.
21:55:38 <AnMaster> A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z [ ] ^ _ ` a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
21:56:52 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").
21:57:05 <AnMaster> ^bf +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++<-]>.------------------------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------.
21:58:22 <AnMaster> fizzie, yeah it isn't unicode aware
21:58:47 <fizzie> If you want to write it, sure.
21:59:38 <AnMaster> fizzie, can you give me one of your combined mad ones
21:59:49 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
22:00:46 <fizzie> Here's the ASCII tilde with a combining tilde both above and below: ~̰̃.
22:00:54 <fizzie> I don't have a very good one handy right now.
22:01:52 <ehird> ais is the master of them
22:01:55 <fizzie> Actually that's just five bytes; ~ is ascii, and the basic combining chars are two-byte ones.
22:01:57 <AnMaster> ^bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++++++>++++++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++++++.>------.<+++++.>.>----.>+.
22:02:17 <ehird> write the outputter naively
22:02:21 <ehird> then run an optimizer on it
22:02:22 <ehird> that can output to bf
22:02:25 -!- nooga has joined.
22:02:26 <ehird> like, esotope w/ bf backend or something
22:02:30 <ehird> that could do serious optimization :P
22:02:56 <fizzie> The fungot output looks different, yes. I get the different tildes sequentially. Don't know what's up with that.
22:02:57 <fungot> fizzie: there's been a horrific battle.
22:02:57 <AnMaster> ehird, go write such a backend
22:03:45 <fizzie> fungot: But what? The battle wasn't horrific at all?
22:03:45 <fungot> fizzie: time's up. i'm taking the treasure. we are off to save you all? how come holy isn't moving?
22:03:57 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 darwin discworld europarl ff7* fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
22:04:06 <ehird> fizzie: is it quoting verbatim?
22:04:11 <ehird> AnMaster: Final Fantasy 7
22:04:19 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII
22:04:21 <AnMaster> ^bf +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>++++++++>++++<<<<-]>.>-.++++.<-.>>>.<+++.>++.--.<++.<<+.>.+++++++++++++++.-------.>++++++++++.<+.+++++.
22:04:35 <fizzie> The single sentences are almost verbatim, I think; though "we are off to save you all?" does some sort of jump to get that ? there.
22:05:04 <fizzie> AnMaster: EgoBot doesn't do the "code!input" thing in !bf.
22:06:07 <fizzie> ^bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>+++>++++>++++++<<<<-]>>.<-.++++.>-.+++++++++++....>-..<...>....<<-----------.>>>----.<..<......>>.<..<.......+++++++++++++++++++..--....>++.<<++.>>>.-----------------..<+.<++.>.-....>...<+.<--.>>--.<.<++.-------------------.>.<.....>.
22:06:07 <fungot> !bf +++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>--.>.-------.<+.>+.+++++.
22:06:13 <AnMaster> ^bf +++++++++++[>++++>+++>++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>>.>>-.++++.<<-.<-......>+++++++++++.....<..>>>-----------.<----.<<........>>--.<++.>>++.<++.<+.<.>.
22:06:14 <fungot> !bf +++++++++++++[>++++++++<-]>.+.
22:06:29 <ehird> !bf_txtgen Hello, world!
22:06:32 <EgoBot> 126 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [877]
22:06:42 <ehird> !bf_txtgen !bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
22:06:46 <EgoBot> 627 +++++++++++[>++++>+++>+++++++++>++++<<<<-]>>.>-.++++.<-.+++++++++++.<-...>...>>-.<<<.>.>-----------.-----------------------------.<.>>.<-------------------.>.<..<<.+++++++++++++++++++.-------------------.>>>..<.<<......+++++++++++++++++++.>>.>...<<<.>.<--....>>>++.<<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------.>>.<.>>+.++++++++++++++++.<.<<----------------.>>.<.>.<.>...<<..>>.<..+++.>>.<.<---...+++.-.>++..<...<-..>..>..+.>--.
22:06:47 <ehird> **EgoBot explodes**
22:06:56 <ehird> Well that is nicely cut off.
22:07:00 <ehird> ^bf +++++++++++[>++++>+++>+++++++++>++++<<<<-]>>.>-.++++.<-.+++++++++++.<-...>...>>-.<<<.>.>-----------.-----------------------------.<.>>.<-------------------.>.<..<<.+++++++++++++++++++.-------------------.>>>..<.<<......+++++++++++++++++++.>>.>...<<<.>.<--....>>>++.<<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------.>>.<.>>+.++++++++++++++++.<.<<----------------.>>.<.>.<.>...<<..>>.<..+++.>>.<.<---...+++.-.>++..<...<-..>..>..+.>--.
22:07:00 <fungot> !bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.------------.<
22:07:00 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:07:09 <AnMaster> >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
22:07:13 <ehird> Graceful degradation.
22:07:17 <AnMaster> that is the hello world on the wiki
22:07:46 <AnMaster> what is the SHORTEST hello world in bf so far
22:08:04 <AnMaster> I remember seeing some shorter than the one egobot gave
22:12:16 -!- fizzief has joined.
22:12:23 <fizzief> ^bf +++++++++++[>+++>++++>++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>.>>>-.++++.<<<-.>>-....<-.......>>-----------.-----------------------------.<......>.<<....>..<...+++++++++++++++++++.>...<.<+++++++++++..>>..<--....>>-----------------.<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------.<..>>....>+.<<.<..>----------------.>......<<.+++..---...+++.++++++++++++++++..>.<--.>-.+.<.>>......>---..+++.-..<++.....>.+.---...+++.-...<...<.>>......<..<.<++.>---.>+.
22:12:23 <fungot> !bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>++++++.>++.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.
22:12:29 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: heh
22:12:30 -!- fizzief has quit (Client Quit).
22:12:40 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: it'll probably run too fast, get confused, and fry itself out of confusion.
22:12:53 <AnMaster> for a newline it gives: +++[>+++<-]>+.
22:12:54 <ehird> that's the problem with fancy-schmancy computers
22:12:57 <fizzie> I had to use telnet for that, for some reason XChat splits lines far earlier than it actually needs to.
22:14:54 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: that cpu cooler's gotta be making a lot of noise
22:15:15 <bsmntbombgirl> it's sitting right next to my current box so i can't tell
22:15:50 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: just be glad your gfx card is passive
22:16:00 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: when in the bios did you check the cpu temp?
22:16:37 <EgoBot> 36 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>++.--.>. [176]
22:18:42 -!- nooga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:23:13 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
22:25:41 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: your cpu is on fire fyi
22:26:17 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
22:26:19 -!- nooga has joined.
22:27:55 <fizzie> A classic: linux-2.6.29.2/drivers/char/lp.c: printk(KERN_INFO "lp%d on fire\n", minor);
22:28:14 <ehird> fizzie: That predates linux, I'm sure
22:28:38 <ehird> fizzie: values of β will give rise to dom!
22:28:55 <fizzie> Yes, I guess so; that just happened to be the most accessible place I could get it.
22:29:06 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: did it explode :-(
22:29:41 <ehird> linux is so awesome that it doesn't need boot media
22:29:49 <fizzie> Well, drivers/net/eexpress.c: printk(KERN_INFO "%s: transmit timed out, %s?\n", dev->name, (SCB_complete(status)?"lost interrupt":"board on fire"));
22:30:07 <fizzie> Those are the only two error scenarios for that chip.
22:30:38 <ehird> fizzie: I like how the board being on fire is just INFO level
22:31:09 <fizzie> "No worries, the board's just on fire."
22:34:55 <fizzie> There's also drivers/macintosh/therm_windtunnel.c for the hardware monitoring on Apple G4 "windtunnel" models; there's an array fan_table with temperatures 55.0, 55.3, 56.0, ..., 60.1 degrees, and a final entry with raw number 0xfffff (corresponding to about 4096 degrees) and the comment "/* on fire */". That's about it for things being on fire, except the usblp driver has the "on fire" as one of the four possible status messages.
22:35:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
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22:40:18 <ehird> fizzie: what about when we invent supernova based cooling
22:40:24 <nooga> ehird: what was that thing you've said i need to instal for dock?
22:40:31 <ehird> you cause an insy winsy little supernova and just ride the CPU on that
22:40:37 <ehird> be more specific :p
22:41:19 <pikhq> fizzie: The "lp on fire" error comes from early, early UNIX systems.
22:41:21 <nooga> i asked what else do i need besides limechat
22:41:27 <pikhq> At the time, the printer could, in fact, be on fire.
22:41:33 <nooga> and you've said something about *** for dock
22:41:54 <ehird> 17:25 nooga: any other useful apps that you'd recommend?
22:41:55 <ehird> 17:27 ehird glances at dock. I use Adium for inferior-to-IRC IM services, I edit some stuff with TextMate (and other stuff in other editors :p)... apart from that... eh... I use Seashore for basic image editing stuff? And Transmission for torrents. And I have a few VM apps. Oh. And Enigma's quite a fun game. That's pretty much all I use
22:41:58 <ehird> 17:27 ehird: Oh, and I use Audacity for basic audio editing. My app selection is quite an uninteresting one.
22:42:29 <nooga> my memory is broken
22:42:29 <pikhq> I don't think he's recommended anything for a dock.
22:42:37 <pikhq> Apart from, say, OS X. :p
22:42:55 <nooga> i thought that you recommend something called 'glances' for dock :D
22:42:58 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: what on earth are you doing
22:43:02 <ehird> nooo:-DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
22:43:04 <pikhq> bsmntbombgirl: No, really?
22:43:20 <nooga> i'm trying to resolve that graph i showed
22:43:31 <pikhq> bsmntbombgirl: They're from an era where a 12k modem was very freaking fast.
22:43:36 <nooga> and every node stands for quite big file
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22:45:57 <nooga> http://sv017.sendspace.pl/file/J2ey9Jf9/eUF5lGkJ8pv81sVm/test.pdf
22:47:24 <fizzie> Since there was all that C65/1541 talk earlier, here's another good thing about the floppy drive's programmability: the implemented-in-the-ROM serial protocol had the blazing speed of about 2400 bps, which in other units is 1 floppy / 10 minutes; but since it's programmable, you can write a fast-loader which can transfer floppy -> C64 at speeds of around 30 kbps.
22:47:34 <nooga> ehird: what do you say? :d
22:47:39 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
22:47:45 <AnMaster> hah, a set containing sets. Confusing
22:47:50 <ehird> nooga: i can't read polish, where's the download button
22:47:55 <ehird> AnMaster: {{1,2},{3,4}} is confusing?
22:48:00 <AnMaster> ehird, the first is a set as in the data structure. The second is a [-] set
22:48:00 <ehird> nooga: the big purple one.
22:48:08 <AnMaster> so a set containing locations of [-]
22:48:11 <ehird> nooga: wow that's pretty
22:48:15 <nooga> i thought that's the direct link
22:48:27 <pikhq> fizzie: Yeah, the C64 floppy was damned cool.
22:48:32 <nooga> 10022 compile errors
22:48:47 <nooga> now i'm trying to resolve this mess and compile it for iphone :D
22:49:02 * AnMaster tries to figure out better names for it
22:49:21 <AnMaster> I'm using the sets module, and the instruction is called set.
22:49:27 <ehird> nooga: i like want to use a scaled down version of that graph as an ornamental header on something
22:50:02 <nooga> porting this lib is impossible
22:51:00 <pikhq> The drive itself had an OS. :)
22:51:17 <ehird> It was more powerful than the C64 as I've said.
22:51:46 <pikhq> The C64 floppy drive had a 6502, the C64 had a 6510.
22:51:57 <pikhq> The 6510 being a 6502 with an additional I/O port.
22:51:58 <ehird> But the muhurts was more.
22:52:02 <fizzie> If you don't like the rank-style graph, you can use the spring-based graphviz layouters like "neato" or "fdp"; those tend to generate more compact stuff. (Though usually that equals to unreadable; then you'll have to add some "avoid overlap" and "route edges" options, and wa-boom, suddenly your reasonable "not very many hundreds of nodes" graph takes multiple hours to layout.)
22:53:05 <pikhq> So, a clever C64 programmer could temporarily replace the floppy drive's OS and have a sort of NUMA multiprocessing setup going.
22:53:33 <pikhq> There's something about that that makes me smile.
22:53:43 <ehird> i want to overclock a c64 to 5mhz
22:53:47 <ehird> and put a fan on it
22:54:05 <nooga> ehird: i rendered this graph again with coloring specific nodes placed in groups and printed it
22:54:05 <pikhq> You could daisy-chain those floppy drives.
22:54:08 <ehird> call it the C-64 elite
22:54:11 <pikhq> "8 processors! Oh yeah!"
22:54:18 <nooga> now it occupies the wall in my office
22:54:22 <ehird> pikhq: Overclock the floppy drive.
22:54:33 <AnMaster> list:reverse(List) makes sense. But why list:reverse(List,Tail)
22:54:37 <ehird> SUPERCOMPUTER CLUSTER
22:54:41 <AnMaster> where it appends the non-reversed Tail
22:54:43 <pikhq> "I overclocked everything. *Everything*."
22:54:48 <ehird> AnMaster: efficient list operation
22:54:50 <nooga> oh, i've seen something rly cool
22:54:59 <fizzie> I printed a couple of A4-sized copies of The Fungot Graph; I don't think I remembered to try the A3 (i.e. readable) version.
22:54:59 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, I ended up using it.
22:55:01 <pikhq> Sadly, I suspect you can't overclock the main C64 chip all that well.
22:55:05 <ehird> pikhq: what about the tape drive
22:55:15 <ehird> have an extension that PRESSes PLAY ON TAPE automatically
22:55:16 <AnMaster> I just couldn't figure out why 1) that name 2) anyone else would need it
22:55:18 <pikhq> Its clock speed is a function of the display speed.
22:55:36 <pikhq> The floppy drive, though...
22:55:37 <AnMaster> it seems rather kind of uncommon
22:55:47 <pikhq> I don't think the CPU has anything to do with the serial bus speed. ;)
22:56:27 <ehird> pikhq: overclock the floppy so it needs a fan
22:56:29 <fizzie> nooga: Since you like graphs, http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/fungotsmall.png -- you can remove the word "small" if you want the 7485x15016-pixel version.
22:56:29 <fungot> fizzie: aerith just blurted that out all the way.
22:56:30 <ehird> and have a cluster of 8
22:56:34 <ehird> it'll be about as loud as an old pc
22:56:40 <nooga> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmfHHLfbjNQ << this is just fucking awesome !!!!!!!!11111111
22:56:54 <ehird> oh yeah that thing
22:57:05 <ehird> (so's the original song)
22:57:33 <nooga> fizzie: dow did you manage to make it so tidy?
22:57:40 <pikhq> ehird: Oooh. You could hook two C64s to a single floppy drive.
22:58:03 <pikhq> Not just a 8-core NUMA system...
22:58:09 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: :-D
22:58:14 <pikhq> A Beowulf cluster.
22:58:17 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: how many bogomips is it?
22:58:24 <ehird> pikhq: we so have to do this
22:58:39 <fizzie> bsmntbombgirl: The "fungotsmall" version is just 1497x3003.
22:58:42 <pikhq> ehird: Get a webserver on this baby.
22:58:56 <ehird> pikhq: shit, you could distribute a contiki instance across it
22:59:01 <fizzie> There was some tweaking of graphviz parameters involved; don't remember them at all.
22:59:10 <pikhq> High-performance Contiki.
22:59:30 <nooga> bass by scanner is orgasmic :D
22:59:57 <ehird> nooga: if you like that stuff then
22:59:59 <ehird> http://www.treewave.com/
23:00:13 <fizzie> The C128 has a 6502-like CPU too, and it's officially "overclockable" (if you can call it that) 1 -> 2 MHz, if you don't mind the fact that the video chip can't live at that speed. (But you can use the C128-specific video chip which can do a 80x25 text mode, if you have a suitable digital-interface monitor.)
23:00:24 <ehird> they use c64s, atari 2600s, compaq portable iis, epson lq500 dotmatrixs
23:00:43 <ehird> paul slocum is pretty cool
23:02:23 <fizzie> And speaking of SMP, the C128 *also* has a 2 MHz Z80 processor (for CP/M mode)... though for hardwarey reasons you can't run the 8502 (6510 + the 2 MHz mode) and the Z80 simultaneously.
23:02:34 <ehird> fizzie: hack it so it can!
23:02:57 <fizzie> Still, not many dual-processor machines have dual processors of completely different architecture. (Though the DS with ARM9+ARM7 is not that far off, and at least those can run simultaneously.)
23:02:58 <pikhq> ehird: Probably each CPU has full control over the memory.
23:03:01 <ehird> By paul slocum, a c64 synthy thingy: http://qotile.net/cynthcart.html
23:03:20 <pikhq> fizzie: The Wii has two processors.
23:03:30 <pikhq> One is a PowerPC, for running the game code.
23:03:36 <pikhq> One is an ARM, for running the DRM code.
23:03:43 <pikhq> Yes, it has a second processor for DRM.
23:03:54 <ehird> http://qotile.net/files/cynth1_2_4.prg It's very small for a synthesizer.
23:04:01 <fizzie> "A possibly unique feature of the C128 among CP/M systems was that some of the low-level BIOS services were executed by the 8502 chip instead of the Z80. The latter transferred control to the 8502 after having placed the pertinent parameter values in designated memory locations. The Z80 then turned itself off, being awoken by the 8502 at completion of the BIOS routine, with status value(s) available in RAM for inspection." Heh, freaky.
23:04:11 <pikhq> Also, there's the Gameboy Advance.
23:04:23 <pikhq> A Z80 and an ARM7.
23:04:26 <pikhq> (don't run simultaneously)
23:04:32 <fizzie> Right, for GB compatibility.
23:04:41 <pikhq> And the Playstation 2.
23:04:46 <pikhq> God, the Playstation 2.
23:05:09 <fizzie> Too bad they dropped GB compatibility from the DS; it would've had ARM9+ARM7+Z80 then.
23:06:22 <pikhq> The PS2 featured a 32bit and 64bit MIPS.
23:06:28 <pikhq> In PS2 mode, both ran simultaneously.
23:07:34 <fizzie> Consoles tend to be rather... idiosyncratic, re hardware.
23:07:38 <pikhq> I seem to recall it having another processor shoved in there, though.
23:07:56 <pikhq> fizzie: With the exception of the Xbox.
23:08:09 <pikhq> Erm. Never mind; the Xbox was quite idiosyncratic.
23:08:20 <pikhq> Because of it's Wintel legacy. XD
23:09:07 <ehird> pikhq: The Xbox 360 uses a powerpc (seriously)
23:09:12 <ehird> Three cores, too. That's quite odd.
23:09:16 <ehird> And a high-for-a-console 3.2ghz speed.
23:10:01 <ehird> Also, not much memory.
23:10:23 <AnMaster> lifthrasiir, We need an irc bot for esotope. To see how much it optimises :P
23:11:05 <pikhq> ehird: The Xbox 360 uses a Cell PPU. Even weirder. ;)
23:11:34 <ehird> Y'know, I bet one day GPUs will change their name. We'll have sequential processing units and concurrent processing units.
23:11:42 <lifthrasiir> AnMaster: sorry, the next exams are ahead; i will be away for a while.
23:12:01 <lifthrasiir> (indeed the next one is after 7.5 hours! :S)
23:13:02 <ehird> lol, the 8086 had 5x the mhz of the ntsc c64
23:13:08 <ehird> several years earlier
23:13:11 <ehird> more expensive ofc
23:18:10 -!- coppro has joined.
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23:18:27 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: has it exploded yet?
23:18:52 <chromakode> GregorR: what can you tell me about bsmntbombgirl
23:18:54 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: aiee, you've got hyperthreading enabled?
23:19:01 <ehird> chromakode: Er... what's going on?
23:19:07 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: that thing plays hell with the cache i hear
23:19:27 <chromakode> ehird: hehe, just trying to tell if he's full of shit in #askreddit or not :)
23:19:37 <ehird> chromakode: oh, what's he saying
23:19:43 <chromakode> I'm good IRL friends with GregorR so I thought I'd make a query
23:20:01 <ehird> oh, you know GregorR? I just recognized your name from reddit.
23:20:14 <pikhq> Oh, we've got an IRL friend of Gregor? Interesting.
23:20:45 <pikhq> Come out, thy hattedness!
23:21:09 <fizzie> I have this single-core Atom 230 thing, and the interwebs refused to tell me whether it's a good idea or not to turn HyperThreading on on it; in the end decided not to, since it probably won't really be doing more than one thing at a time anyway.
23:21:50 <pikhq> fizzie: For the Atom, you'll probably benefit.
23:21:56 <fizzie> (Incidentally, since it's called "Core i7", it really should have 7 cores.)
23:21:56 <pikhq> Poor pipelining and all that.
23:22:08 <ehird> fizzie: Just like the Core 2 only comes in dual-core versions.
23:22:52 <fizzie> At least they add the "quad" in there even in the marketed names; I haven't seen i7 things referred to except by mysterious numbers.
23:23:03 <chromakode> I have seen at least 50% of Gregor's hats in real life.
23:23:09 <chromakode> including the badass one with the tassel.
23:23:15 <ehird> chromakode: Can I have your autograph?
23:23:24 <pikhq> Intel decided that the mysterious numbers were "more meaningful".
23:23:38 <ehird> fizzie: All i7s are quad-core.
23:23:50 <pikhq> chromakode: We've seen www.choosemyhat.com . ;)
23:23:54 <fizzie> ehird: Yes, but there is no sense of four-ness in the name.
23:24:04 <pikhq> ehird: Dual-core and oct-core versions have yet to ship.
23:24:08 <ehird> fizzie: It has two letters, which is half of four.
23:24:15 <ehird> pikhq: I'm pretty sure they've yet to be announced
23:24:37 <fizzie> I don't even have a GCC with "-mtune=atom" capabilities; I guess those are not going to be in the 4.3 series. :/
23:24:58 <ehird> is there an -mtune=i7, I wonder?
23:25:10 <ehird> could do something w/ the puny l2
23:25:22 <ehird> chromakode: do you even know what this channel is about? about half of our visitors don't
23:25:46 <Gracenotes> hm. has anyone ever taken 5 classes a day during a semester?
23:25:48 <ehird> you belong to the other 0.5%, clearly.
23:25:58 <ehird> or, rather, flip it.
23:26:25 <pikhq> Gracenotes: I've known someone who did.
23:26:39 <pikhq> He was on the Uberman sleep schedule for most of it, too.
23:26:48 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl did uberman!
23:26:49 <Gracenotes> I'd be in class for a total of 7 hours on monday. largely split up.
23:26:50 <ehird> i am not a stalker.
23:26:54 * pikhq had a crazy roommate.
23:27:09 * pikhq will have said roommate again next semester. :)
23:27:16 <Gracenotes> but in that case I've have a max of 3 hours on all other days
23:27:20 <ehird> I wonder what "drop lack of tea" does in the HHGTTG game.
23:28:41 <ehird> pikhq: "Your common sense tells you that you can't do that."
23:28:47 <ehird> Common sense? Is this the hitchhiker's guide I know?
23:29:22 <pikhq> Give it a break, man. Arthur Dent has to hold onto *something*.
23:29:40 <pikhq> Aside from the clothes on his back, I mean.
23:30:00 <ehird> he only has clothes on his back?
23:36:13 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: it'll be faster to disable hyperthreading in most cases
23:36:42 <pikhq> Oh, right. The Atom was based on the Pentium *3*.
23:36:53 <pikhq> Which had good pipelining.
23:37:12 <pikhq> Yeah, hyperthreading on the Atom is just pointless.
23:40:00 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: ask pikhq; he found some shit about hyperthreading
23:40:06 <ehird> basically: your cache will pay, iirc
23:40:09 <pikhq> bsmntbombgirl: Hyperthreading is a hack to get around bad pipelining.
23:40:14 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: also, there's some security issues
23:40:21 <pikhq> And it has, as a side effect, a terrible impact on your cache.
23:40:35 <ehird> see for instance http://www.daemonology.net/hyperthreading-considered-harmful/
23:40:37 <pikhq> On the Pentium 4, it was beneficial.
23:40:56 <pikhq> (the Pentium 4 had gobs of cache and some of the worst pipelining out there)
23:41:07 <ehird> the i7 only has 256K of l2 cache
23:41:15 <pikhq> On anything else, and I mean anything else, it just creates cache misses.
23:41:15 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: uh?
23:41:33 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: the L2 cache on the i7 isn't shared
23:41:35 <ehird> (the L3 is though)
23:41:39 <ehird> anyway, the other arguments sitll apply
23:42:30 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: loads of cache misses, not an appreciable performance benefit (are you really using 8 threads? does it outweigh the disadvantages?), and it's a hack to get around bad pipelining
23:42:39 <ehird> (Pronounced "kwed.")
23:43:25 <pikhq> Pentium 4s tended to have at least 1M of L2 cache...
23:43:50 <pikhq> There were some with 2M.
23:44:16 <pikhq> The cache misses on an Atom will just be painful.
23:45:40 <pikhq> ... Holy fuck, Atom chips are overpriced.
23:46:07 <ehird> err? they're for budget netbooks
23:46:29 <pikhq> ehird: AMD sells dual-core Phenoms at similar price points.
23:46:45 <ehird> I can't buy a dual core Phenom for the cost of a cheap Atom box.
23:46:46 <pikhq> Actually, the cheapest one is reasonable.
23:46:57 <ehird> http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=91
23:47:13 <ehird> cpu only takes 8 watts, amazingly
23:47:29 <pikhq> I've got a triple-core Phenom almost completely specced for $200. Short a hard drive.
23:47:53 <pikhq> Oh, and an optical drive. :/
23:48:08 <ehird> pikhq: that one has no optical drive too :P
23:48:18 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: how goes your system
23:48:31 <ehird> pikhq: but it isn't prebuilt
23:48:33 <ehird> prebuilts always cost more
23:49:04 <pikhq> Lemme see what I could get an 80G HD for.
23:49:29 <ehird> I configured a complete dual-core system for a little over $200. It wasn't good, but for most people it'd do just fine.
23:49:37 <ehird> Apart from the having to build it thing
23:50:11 <ehird> Athlon X2 4050e @ 2.1ghz, 2GB of RAM, 160GB harddrive.
23:50:38 <ehird> seriously; the cpu's just $39.99
23:50:49 <pikhq> $33 for an 80G drive. Whoo.
23:50:57 <ehird> whole thing comes to $222.41
23:51:16 <pikhq> Moral of the story: prebuilts cost more.
23:51:16 <ehird> inc. a 52x cd burner, floppy drive, case and 380w power supply
23:51:47 <ehird> i7 systems cost a lot due to the DDR3 requirement
23:52:07 <pikhq> True, DDR3 is pricy.
23:52:17 <ehird> Pricy and also delicious.
23:53:51 * pikhq feels sorry for ehird's stomach
23:54:03 <ehird> I am a silicon-based lifeform.
23:54:29 <ehird> "Putting the pro back in power" —OCZ marketing
23:54:45 * pikhq feels sorry for ehird, then.
23:54:54 <pikhq> Your grocery shopping must be pricy as hell.
23:54:55 <ehird> pikhq: What's wrong with silicon :<
23:55:06 <ehird> pikhq: No kidding; I'm watercooled.
23:55:11 <ehird> That's why I still drink human fluids.
23:55:17 <ehird> They transfer heat well.
23:55:38 * pikhq runs away from the Si-based vampire
23:55:52 <ehird> ... wait, you point that out and then just think *blood*?
23:56:17 <pikhq> Blood is one of the more prevalent human fluids.
23:56:43 <pikhq> Of course, you could mean piss, instead.
23:56:53 <Gracenotes> my blood is very nutritious! It has iron!
23:57:13 <ehird> pikhq: No. That did not even cross my mind. :-P
23:57:21 <ehird> Gracenotes: could you extract just the iron please
23:57:24 <pikhq> Gracenotes: My caffeine stream is very nutritious! It has trace nutrients such as blood!
23:57:53 <Gracenotes> although, you know what they say about hormones in food nowadays. I'm betting that my blood is crawling with all sorts of hormones