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00:00:47 <ehird> bsmntbombgirl: btw, you might wanna memtest sometime
00:00:54 <ehird> since 12gb is a loooot
00:01:19 * pikhq memtests whenever he obtains a new motherboard, CPU, or RAM...
00:01:34 <ehird> pikhq: I would memtest, but it takes houuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurs.
00:01:59 <ehird> Sure, I probably will sometime with the new box.
00:02:11 <ehird> All my other computers just aren't quiet enough to leave on overnight though ;-)
00:02:16 <ehird> Yes, even this one. I have bat ears.
00:02:36 <pikhq> It's been worth the effort in the past.
00:02:37 <AnMaster> ehird, I have separate bedroom :D
00:02:59 <ehird> AnMaster: Unfortunately, cramped architecture dictates.
00:03:02 <AnMaster> ehird, or leave it on over-day and read a book / go outside?
00:03:11 <ehird> What is this "book"?
00:03:13 <pikhq> (my current motherboard has a *memory slot* that causes errors)
00:03:22 <ehird> How can you be out of a side?
00:03:26 <ehird> That makes no sense.
00:03:39 <AnMaster> ehird, You know what a kindle is right?
00:03:57 <ehird> Ooh! Something to do with a fire? ...In the amazon?
00:04:14 <ehird> to kindle (third-person singular simple present kindles, present participle kindling, simple past and past participle kindled)
00:04:14 <ehird> (transitive) To start (a fire) or light (a torch).
00:04:16 <ehird> Please kindle a fire in the barbecue.
00:04:20 <ehird> kindle (plural kindles)
00:04:22 <ehird> (obsolete) A collective term for a group of kittens.
00:04:24 <ehird> A kindle of kittens.
00:04:26 <pikhq> That's not a Big Blue Room thing. ;)
00:04:28 <ehird> I know what kittens are.
00:04:49 <AnMaster> ehird, well what about wikipedia. You know what it is? Now imagine it printed on paper.
00:04:57 <pikhq> Out of a side, though.
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00:05:08 <ehird> AnMaster: ...Why would I kill trees?
00:05:10 <AnMaster> ehird, paper being thin sheets made of dead wood
00:05:54 * pikhq wonders what ehird's house is made of
00:06:13 <ehird> My house is made of digital.
00:06:23 <pikhq> That thing that keeps you seperated from the daystar?
00:07:09 <pikhq> ehird: Is there a door that you don't use very often?
00:07:28 <ehird> Yes! Inside there is the thing that blinds you. I do not go there!
00:07:29 <pikhq> If so, open it. You should see the Big Blue Room.
00:07:45 <pikhq> Larger than the Internet.
00:07:46 <ehird> Let me go and look...
00:07:59 <pikhq> Also, the day star is the thing that blinds you.
00:08:03 <AnMaster> ehird, the thing that blinds you is called the "sun" or "day star". The former being a more common name.
00:08:11 <ehird> pikhq: I looked at it but there was no light in there so I couldn't see and when I put my hand in to find a lightswitch it was cold.
00:08:24 <AnMaster> pikhq, it is midnight in UK now I think
00:08:25 <ehird> It must not be very well maintained!
00:08:25 <pikhq> ehird: Oh, it's not day.
00:08:28 <pikhq> You won't see the daystar, then.
00:08:48 <ehird> This sounds like one of those fairytails. You know, Santa, Tooth Fairy, Allah, Day star...
00:08:52 <pikhq> You will see the nightstars.
00:09:05 <ehird> Pull the other one!
00:09:17 <pikhq> They don't blind you.
00:09:30 <ehird> They don't light anything either...
00:09:37 <ehird> What's so special about this room anyway?
00:09:41 <pikhq> They are not very bright.
00:09:48 <pikhq> It's the original room.
00:10:04 <pikhq> All the other rooms were made by putting walls up in it.
00:10:10 <AnMaster> that is because the day star is closer.
00:10:36 <ehird> And on the seventh day, the daystar put up some walls. Tee hee.
00:11:04 <pikhq> Because the Big Blue Room is kinda crappy.
00:11:06 <ehird> Where did they get the walls from? Walls come from big buildings with walls in them.
00:11:22 <AnMaster> ehird, and how do you think those are made
00:11:23 <pikhq> ehird: They made buildings.
00:11:37 <ehird> AnMaster: Quantum fluctuations!
00:11:39 <pikhq> The roof leaks, the heater is broken, and the air conditioning hates you.
00:11:55 <pikhq> Oh, and sometimes very large rocks fall in.
00:12:09 <ehird> What kind of architect designed that bullcrap?!
00:12:18 <pikhq> It wasn't designed.
00:12:27 <pikhq> (unless you believe some Christians)
00:12:33 <ehird> pikhq: Hah, what are you gonna say?
00:12:36 <ehird> A big ball of rock was flying along
00:12:40 <ehird> and just turned into the big blue room?
00:12:44 <ehird> This gets more ridiculous by the minute.
00:12:57 <AnMaster> ehird, the whole existence was a freak accident.
00:13:07 -!- nooga_ has joined.
00:13:08 <AnMaster> existence of everything that is
00:13:57 <ehird> pikhq: about these rocks falling.
00:13:59 <ehird> Does everybody dies?
00:14:17 <ehird> If rocks fall, everybody dies.
00:14:39 <AnMaster> ehird, Most of the time the damage is localised. Only affects a small area.
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00:14:58 <pikhq> And the Room is very, very large.
00:15:30 <AnMaster> ehird, depends on how you measure
00:15:37 <ehird> You're all lunatics
00:15:40 <ehird> Like scientologists
00:15:45 <ehird> Bigblueroomologists
00:16:02 <pikhq> Approximately 510 gigameters.
00:16:15 <pikhq> 148 gigameters of which is not water.
00:16:26 <ehird> Wait, it has water too?
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00:16:29 <pikhq> Square gigameters, I mean.
00:16:30 <ehird> Like, instead of floor?
00:16:37 <pikhq> In some places, yes.
00:16:52 <pikhq> About 70% of its surface area, in fact.
00:16:57 <AnMaster> ehird, um. Not exactly. Ever seen a bathtub that was lowered to the floow level?
00:17:03 <ehird> ok, well as you can see i have a q6600 with a whole 65 nanometers, and its awesome. So my friend gets an e7400 and they totally rip him off. Instead of giving him 65 nanometers or more, they only give him 45, like WTH!!
00:17:03 <pikhq> Want to see a picture of about half of it?
00:17:04 <ehird> So nedless to say i am pretty mad as intel is jipping my friend of his nanometers, so now his cpu will not be as good as my q6600, which is bad. Intel used to give people like a whole 130 nanometers but lately they are being very stingy and are not giving us their nanometers so our cpu's are not as good. Please help me boycott intel so they stop stealing our nanometers
00:17:23 <pikhq> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg
00:17:40 <ehird> pikhq: Oh come on, obviously photoshopped; look at the smooth edges and the black background
00:17:46 <ehird> Also, that white shit.
00:17:50 <ehird> What the FUCK is that meant to be?
00:17:53 <fizzie> Yeah, the reflections are all wrong.
00:18:00 <ehird> The cloud is the internet, noobcaek.
00:18:07 <ehird> Everyone knows that.
00:18:08 <pikhq> And that's the Earth.
00:18:16 <ehird> Earth. Sounds like "Xenu".
00:18:49 <ehird> Yeah, theology always does when you poke at the obvious flaws.
00:18:54 <pikhq> The Big Blue Room, the Earth, is a planet.
00:19:08 <ehird> AnMaster: That's sci-fi. L Ron Hubbard was a sci-fi writer too and he founded scientology
00:19:09 <AnMaster> ehird, think "like that, without the aliens (as far as we know)"
00:19:09 <pikhq> It is a very, very large rock with things on it.
00:19:11 <ehird> coincidence? i think not
00:19:23 <ehird> pikhq: I was joking about the flying rock, goddamn!
00:19:25 <pikhq> It is in orbit around the "Sun", the daystar.
00:19:26 <ehird> You're all bananas!
00:19:31 <ehird> fizzie: you don't believe this crap do you?
00:19:34 <AnMaster> ehird, where do you think they got the idea to space invaders‽
00:19:38 <pikhq> This is a gigantic mass of burning hydrogen.
00:19:43 <ehird> AnMaster: star trek!
00:19:55 <AnMaster> ehird, and where did they get the idea for star trek
00:20:00 <ehird> pikhq: You're a dipshit. Hydrogen is a gas.
00:20:00 <pikhq> ehird: The evidence suggests that this is true.
00:20:08 <ehird> pikhq: How come it isn't flying everywhere?
00:20:15 <ehird> AnMaster: The creators's mind?
00:20:20 <ehird> pikhq: Gravity makes things go down.
00:20:33 <AnMaster> ehird, you think they could make up something that stupid?
00:20:43 <pikhq> No, it makes things be attracted to other mass.
00:20:51 <pikhq> Which tends to form a sphere.
00:20:57 <ehird> AnMaster: Einstein said that only two things are infinite:
00:21:00 <AnMaster> Actually, Gravity is uncomputable.
00:21:05 <ehird> the universe and human stupidity, and that he wasn't sure about the former.
00:21:06 <AnMaster> Would have been the right answer.
00:21:09 <ehird> I don't know what he means by "universe", but...
00:21:21 <AnMaster> ehird, the universe is the same as this space!
00:21:31 <ehird> Oh, don't drag Einstein into your religion.
00:21:51 <pikhq> He described pretty well how gravity works.
00:21:56 <pikhq> By bending spacetime.
00:22:03 <ehird> That was *fiction*.
00:22:09 <ehird> C'mon, "spacetime"? right out of star trek.
00:22:16 <pikhq> Ah, but we've observed it.
00:22:25 <ehird> You kooky cultists, maybe.
00:22:52 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, we believe in science!
00:23:00 <ehird> 'sthat the name of your religion?
00:23:04 <pikhq> Experiments with the space shuttle, among other things.
00:23:22 <AnMaster> ehird, Einstein style science.
00:23:33 <ehird> pikhq: "space shuttle"?
00:23:42 <AnMaster> ehird, you missed out on that?
00:23:47 <pikhq> It goes into orbit around the sun.
00:23:53 <pikhq> *Earth*, not the sun.
00:24:01 <ehird> You can't even keep your facts straight, I see.
00:24:03 <AnMaster> yeah, the Earth is in the orbit around the Sun
00:24:12 <AnMaster> so in fact it also orbits the sun
00:24:13 <pikhq> That, among other things, is how we have pictures of the Earth.
00:24:19 <AnMaster> because it orbits the orbiting Earth
00:24:42 <AnMaster> actually yes it is modified. The image was turned upside down. That was all.
00:25:18 <pikhq> Sorry, that specific picture was from 1972.
00:25:27 <pikhq> Before UNIX, still.
00:26:49 <AnMaster> not before epoch though. Though epoch was before UNIX.
00:28:04 <coppro> time started in 1970 :P
00:28:35 <pikhq> coppro: my music collection disagrees.
00:28:49 * pikhq listens to the Beatles
00:29:33 <pikhq> ehird: Go to the Big Blue Room sometime during the day.
00:29:42 <coppro> At 0, the world was created with an artificial history, obviously
00:29:57 <pikhq> Observe the existence of things like "the Sun".
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00:30:02 <pikhq> Then do the same at night.
00:30:08 <pikhq> Observe the plentiful stars and the moon.
00:30:18 <pikhq> Come back and we'll talk again. ;)
00:30:29 <AnMaster> ehird, space shuttle mounted on launch platform: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0905/shuttlepredawn_danforth_big.jpg The Space Shuttle is the white thing with the half-hidden text "NASA" and "Atlantis" (the name of this specific shuttle, no idea why the named it that) on it.
00:30:47 <ehird> AnMaster: Nice render. POV-Ray?
00:31:19 <ehird> Might be a film studio
00:31:21 <ehird> But probably a render
00:31:21 <pikhq> You can also fly to Cape Canaveral and see it for yourself.
00:31:23 <ehird> It's all too perfect.
00:31:31 <ehird> You believe your adherents can FLY?!
00:31:52 <pikhq> Not without help. We have machines that fly.
00:31:56 <pikhq> We sit inside them.
00:32:17 <AnMaster> works by using wings to produce lift.
00:32:25 <pikhq> It's a very good way of moving about in the Big Blue Room, since it's very, very large...
00:32:46 <pikhq> And even going 200mph, it takes hours to get places.
00:32:57 <AnMaster> ehird, and the room is so large you CAN'T see it is a room-
00:34:02 <AnMaster> ehird where do you think I am?
00:36:59 <AnMaster> ehird, try going out the door you don't use a lot tomorrow
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00:37:41 <AnMaster> ehird, because you missing something that is way better than inside.
00:37:54 <AnMaster> ehird, it may take a while to adjust to the light level
00:38:03 <ehird> pikhq: is AnMaster part of a weird sect of your cult?
00:38:08 <ehird> that _likes_ the B.B.R.?
00:38:16 <AnMaster> ehird, also don't your house have windows? Holes in the walls. With glass in them
00:38:26 <pikhq> ehird: There are pleasant things in the B.B.R.
00:38:28 <ehird> Sure; they display generated sci-fi scenery.
00:38:31 <pikhq> Such as other people.
00:38:38 <pikhq> And they don't generate anything.
00:38:43 <pikhq> They are just transparent.
00:39:07 <AnMaster> ehird, that is what you will reach when you go through that door.
00:39:15 <pikhq> Look out the window, then go out the door.
00:39:21 <pikhq> Should be the same thing.
00:39:42 <AnMaster> well, you might have to go around the house to reach the right window of course
00:39:50 <AnMaster> if the door is in the opposite end
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01:22:39 <nooga_> my #define maping tool is awesome
01:23:04 <nooga_> added 'perspective' and various types of nodes
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04:54:34 <Sgeo> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PizzaTheorem.html
05:03:14 <Sgeo> http://kylegabler.com/WorldOfGooSoundtrack/
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06:06:17 <asiekierka> ok, finally finished my putc routine for chars 00-7F
06:06:40 <asiekierka> so this means I can finally move to other things
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06:28:52 <asiekierka> I just hope it's not C64-DTV running CELF
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12:34:34 <AnMaster> hi ais523 (no response first time around, was just before the timeout)
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13:01:32 <asiekierka> Codename CELF progress: putc and puts are completely finished! woo-hoo!
13:05:41 <asiekierka> Well, for PUTC, the only thing I am required to do is to do TAB (#09)
13:16:06 <nooga> asiekierka sounds polish :D
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13:32:48 <nooga> to fajnie, ja tez :P
13:34:03 <nooga> better to go prv ;p
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14:17:35 <oerjan> i'll have a guinness, please
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14:28:27 <nooga> free space on my HD shrinks constantly
14:28:51 <nooga> but TimeMachine is disabled
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15:12:59 <nooga> Ļ∑óę󮳹…ą„żźłźźĶ∑󙼀–™Ľ€•
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16:01:28 <ehird> 13:28 nooga: free space on my HD shrinks constantly
16:01:29 <ehird> 13:28 nooga: but TimeMachine is disabled
16:01:32 <ehird> timemachine doesn't back up to your hd
16:01:43 <nooga> then what it does?
16:02:07 <ehird> nooga: backs up to an external Time Capsule drive.
16:02:17 <nooga> there is no such drive
16:02:25 <ehird> i'm telling you what it dose.
16:02:36 <nooga> so my free space shrinks without any reason
16:02:46 <ehird> it shrinks for a different reason
16:03:00 <nooga> yesterday i've had 88GB free, now i have 86GB
16:03:11 <ehird> swap space, temporary files.
16:03:14 <nooga> and i don't remember downloading/creating something 2GB big
16:03:28 <ehird> the OS will manage them itself
16:07:41 <ehird> nooga: don't worry, be happy
16:09:15 <ehird> Google is lagging...
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16:19:16 <ehird> oerjan: is that a joke :p
16:19:54 <oerjan> no, i just wanted to google something
16:20:19 <ehird> my poor gmail, too
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16:21:41 <ehird> inurinternet: who are you? :p
16:22:10 <ais523> heh, if that realname is correct, that's quite a good nickname pun
16:22:18 <ehird> heh, I just looked it up
16:25:04 <ehird> it seems to be very sporadic
16:26:31 <oerjan> it's currently refusing to load here
16:26:44 <ehird> it indefinitely loads and sometimes finishes for me
16:26:53 <oerjan> the norwegian version, naturally, i don't know how much that matters
16:27:50 <oerjan> although i did get in a couple searches
16:27:53 <AnMaster> !bf_txtgen Test for optimiser.
16:27:55 <EgoBot> 164 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>++>+++<<<<-]>.+++++++++++++++++.>+++.+.>++++.<<+.>-----.+++.>.<---.+.++++.<+++.++++.----.>-.<----.>-.>>++++.<----------------------. [329]
16:27:59 <ehird> nooga: stop sweating over it
16:28:09 <ehird> the OS can manage some temp ;-)
16:28:09 <nooga> something eatc my drive!
16:28:31 <ehird> if it keeps going down just rm -rf /tmp/* and reboot or something
16:28:44 -!- FireFly has joined.
16:28:55 * oerjan swats FireFly -----###
16:29:35 * ehird arrests oerjan for child abuse (unless FireFly is an adult, in which case disregard this)
16:29:46 <ehird> FireFly: stockholm syndrome!
16:29:57 * oerjan swats ehird in a lurid way -----###
16:30:00 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:30:43 <FireFly> "The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg in Stockholm"
16:31:00 <ehird> you swedes still have google don't you
16:31:15 <oerjan> robbery? i thought it was a terrorist attack...
16:31:17 <ehird> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
16:31:29 <ehird> Need...google...juice
16:31:35 <FireFly> I don't like the combo of swedish and english :\
16:31:55 <oerjan> darn, switching to google.se doesn't help me...
16:32:01 <ehird> oerjan: it's ze routing
16:32:06 <ehird> FireFly: swedish sounds like joke english
16:32:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Connection reset by peer).
16:32:17 <ehird> It's the bank-en of [kc]redit!
16:33:26 * oerjan crosses his fingers for the space observatory
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16:38:39 <AnMaster> ehird, still issues with google in UK?
16:38:56 <ehird> everywhere but sweden, it seems.
16:40:43 <AnMaster> ehird, UK + Norway != Everywhere :P
16:41:03 <ehird> yes, but i'm pretty sure it's not two isolated cases
16:41:07 <ehird> so probably a portion of europe
16:41:12 <ehird> and maybe elsewhere
16:42:58 <ehird> what, again again?
16:43:21 * ehird looks up a project to see if that changedt oo
16:44:01 <ehird> the death throws of an obsolete service
16:44:13 <ehird> <ballmer> redesigners redesigners redesigners redesigners redesigners redesigners
16:46:07 <AnMaster> obsolete? Shitty yes, but not obsolete. Since lots of projects still use sf.net... Then "obsolete" must mean that you consider the concept of such sites outdated?
16:46:34 <ehird> sf.net itself had its time...
16:46:41 <ehird> but I don't think its model is useful
16:46:48 <ehird> some of its services, certainly
16:47:01 <ehird> regardless of the model, there's no question its popularity for new projects is dwindling...
16:48:26 <AnMaster> ehird, that is because of the constant redesigns IMO :P
16:48:38 <ehird> oh, it happened before the design
16:48:42 <AnMaster> well, at least it is probably part of the reason.
16:48:48 -!- ais523_ has joined.
16:48:56 <ehird> AnMaster: the first major one in ever
16:49:04 <ehird> from the gigantic sidebars, orange-ball logo etc
16:49:05 <AnMaster> ais523_, and have you noticed sf.net resigned again?
16:49:08 <ehird> to the web 2.0y one
16:49:14 <ais523_> AnMaster: no, I never visit it
16:49:17 <ais523_> at least, not deliberately
16:49:28 <ais523_> it's not that I'm avoiding it
16:49:34 <ais523_> just that I have no reason to go there
16:49:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:49:39 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
16:49:50 <AnMaster> indeed. Only reason I had to go there today was to comment on a bug report.
16:50:16 <ehird> urgh, sf's issue tracker system
16:50:19 <ehird> it's almost as bad as their forums
16:51:08 <ehird> you just reminded me of it:)
16:51:28 <AnMaster> ehird, actually, the issue tracker used to be worse.
16:51:38 <AnMaster> they made it slightly less bad recently
16:51:42 <ehird> yes, but it's still awful
16:51:46 <ehird> and the forums have always been that bad
16:52:20 <ehird> AnMaster: for projects, yep
16:52:24 <ehird> some even use them
16:52:32 <ehird> go to a project page, find the forums
16:52:37 <ehird> they're truly awful
16:52:42 <nooga> oerjan: how to say "don't run away" in norwegian? ;d
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17:34:42 <ehird> wow, sun will sell you Unix-style keyboards
17:35:52 <ehird> http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/peripherals/keyboard/
17:37:17 <Gracenotes> okay, the first comment here is a bit odd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibZaxgnBsaU
17:37:41 <ehird> 'Tis music to his genitals indeed.
17:38:03 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/user/bubukaka5
17:38:06 <ehird> He is indeed an odd one.
17:38:10 <ehird> 3219joejonas (1 week ago)
17:38:10 <ehird> look I'm only going to say this.................. when you get sick and your in a hospital dieing REMEMBER WHAT you said and then think again!!!!
17:38:13 <ehird> And Just Maybe You get out OK! But As long as you wannabe Canadian self don't stop acting like a jerk. aren't go to get no respect.....Just bcuz ur from Canada don't mean anything...wow Ur Canadian
17:38:16 <ehird> so Wat , but there r going to be Black,White Or even Mexicans(wat ever u called them they are people like u and me) trying to save Ur life,working they butts off for you and all you can do is talk about crap.
17:38:44 <Gracenotes> PEDRO USADO CONDOM QUANDO ENCULO PORCINA POR FAVOR !
17:39:02 <Gracenotes> and... wtf about the Alicia Keys comment
17:44:20 <nooga> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttW3gJ7Uun0 no o o
17:44:56 <ehird> wow that song is crap
17:45:18 <nooga> it looped on some itunes radio
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18:16:19 <ehird> i wonder how long till 160GB X25-M prices go down
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18:19:00 <AnMaster> is it in theory safe to move a known constant output across a seek in bf? that is: other code here [>] [-]+++, which turns into "seek, set 3, output(3)" which is then sorted to "seek, output(3), set 3"
18:19:11 <AnMaster> potentially I guess it isn't safe
18:19:16 <ehird> AnMaster: how is that not safe
18:19:18 <ehird> of course it's safe
18:19:24 <AnMaster> ehird, if the seek never hits any set cell
18:19:34 <ehird> AnMaster: you handle that in the seek part
18:19:51 <ehird> AnMaster: if the seek never finds a cell, it runs forever
18:19:54 <AnMaster> ehird, I might not know if it will hit any set cell yet at compile time
18:19:55 <ehird> so the other instructions aren't executed
18:19:58 <ehird> and thus don't execute
18:20:12 <ehird> "seek, set 3, output(3)" which is then sorted to "seek, output(3), set 3"
18:20:17 <ehird> that sorting is perfectly fine
18:20:33 <AnMaster> ehird, but my question was, is it then safe to move the output across the seek
18:22:29 <ehird> AnMaster: how are you optimizing [>>]
18:22:48 <ehird> that's the best you can do, really
18:23:01 <AnMaster> ehird, into a seek node. How that is output depends on the backend.
18:23:14 <ehird> "For as long as I can recall, ATI/AMD video cards have typically had decent support in Linux"
18:23:19 <ehird> Linux users can't agree on ANYTHING :-)
18:23:22 <AnMaster> ehird, currently the C backend translates it to while(*p) p+=stride;
18:23:42 <AnMaster> but could be changed into a for loop
18:23:52 <ehird> AnMaster: same code
18:23:59 <AnMaster> I really haven't spent much time on making the backend itself output the best possible code yet.
18:24:13 <AnMaster> anyway I'm trying to figure out optimal sorting.
18:24:24 <ehird> a thing i have learned over the past few days: the 2D/3D hardware acceleration stack for Xorg is a bloody mess
18:24:24 <AnMaster> the shifter code is getting messy with special cases.
18:24:32 <AnMaster> so I'm making a loop up table with conditions
18:24:37 <ehird> AnMaster: you just need to code one thing:
18:24:49 <ehird> AnMaster: "things that may or may not terminate are sort blockers"
18:24:54 <ehird> asiekierka: google is being the laggy
18:25:07 <AnMaster> ehird, um no, you can't move an out across an out for example. but you can move an add (which changes a different cell) across an out
18:25:09 <asiekierka> google loads for me, youtube does not load
18:25:22 <ehird> AnMaster: ok, alternative definition:
18:25:33 <ehird> AnMaster: my rule still works
18:25:36 <ehird> just specialcase output too
18:25:44 <ehird> but "things that may or may not terminate are sort blockers" + side effect handling
18:25:48 <ehird> catches everything
18:26:13 <AnMaster> ehird, and I move {out. offset = 2, constant_to_add = 0}, {add, offset = 2, value = -2} across so you have: {add, offset = 2, value = -2} {out. offset = 2, constant_to_add = 2}
18:26:24 <AnMaster> this is because often you can merge those add
18:26:31 <EgoBot> 47 +++++++++++[>+++++++++>+>><<<<-]>--.+.+.+.+.>-. [206]
18:26:39 <AnMaster> like that. You can merge those adds
18:26:51 <AnMaster> ehird, so there are lots of special handling cases needed.
18:27:16 <AnMaster> and you can move set across add only if it has a different offset.
18:27:27 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
18:27:29 <AnMaster> (the combiner pass will merge them if they have same)
18:28:03 <AnMaster> (either, add, set into a set, since the add is a dead store; or for set, add change to the value to set)
18:28:16 <nooga> can >><<<< be optimized to << ?
18:28:27 <AnMaster> nooga, combiner pass would do that
18:28:56 <AnMaster> anyway I'm working on making the shift-type look up table atm
18:30:48 <ehird> 18:27 AnMaster: (the combiner pass will merge them if they have same)
18:30:54 <ehird> then always do the shifting step last
18:31:29 <AnMaster> shifting or combining first :P
18:31:43 <ehird> (1) If they have different offsets, you can shift them.
18:31:50 <ehird> (2) If they don't, the combiner will merge them.
18:31:58 <ehird> If (2) happens, you don't have to deal with it in (1) because you don't know.
18:32:00 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, but shifter calculates the offset when it shifts > forward.
18:32:01 <ehird> So always do (1) after (2)
18:32:04 <ehird> and you can avoid a special case.
18:32:18 <AnMaster> ehird, there are other special cases that you can exploit.
18:32:28 <ehird> but that saves one
18:33:00 <AnMaster> ehird, and I run all the optimiser passes in a loop until tree changes no more.
18:33:13 <ehird> yes, so run (1) last, ie the shifter, in the loop
18:33:15 <AnMaster> so all passes needs to be able to deal with output from later passes.
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18:33:24 <AnMaster> ib_opt_simple_loops, ib_opt_combine,
18:33:24 <AnMaster> ib_analyse_loops_simple, ib_analyse_loops_access,
18:33:34 <AnMaster> sorry for indention mess up when pasting
18:34:35 <AnMaster> like loop->if and polynomiser. That is because the loop access analyser needs more work.
18:34:37 <ehird> AnMaster: ok, so you don't need the special case
18:34:40 <ehird> they ARE different
18:34:45 <ehird> otherwise the combiner would have got them
18:34:47 <ehird> and merged them away
18:35:05 <AnMaster> ehird, only if they were directly after each other at that stage.
18:36:22 <nooga> decompiling sadol to mid-level C would be cool ;d
18:36:48 <ehird> Sweet! By RAID-0ing two X25-M 80GB disks, I can get the RAID-0 performance improvements and also save one cent.
18:37:00 <ehird> Of course, I'm leery of software RAID...
18:39:09 -!- tombom_ has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
18:40:52 <ehird> who says you can't have your eat and cake it too?
18:41:56 <ehird> AnMaster: Today on Marketdroid Channel:
18:42:12 <ehird> "Super RAID-0 performance, only $-0.01!"
18:42:34 <AnMaster> ehird, software RAID puts a larger load on the CPU though
18:42:36 <ehird> ofc, two drives are more likely to fail than one, but it doesn't exactly matter too much if an OS drive fails
18:42:43 <ehird> AnMaster: isn't it very minimal for RAID-0?
18:42:56 <ehird> AnMaster: besides, iirc some mobos have onboard RAID nowadays
18:43:00 <ehird> it'll be crappy, but enough for RAID-0
18:43:12 <ehird> after all, RAID-0 isn't even redundant!
18:44:03 <AnMaster> I thought most had it for years
18:44:10 <ehird> well, I wasn't too sure
18:44:27 <AnMaster> both mine and my old one have/had it. Yet both only have/had 2 ram slots.
18:44:35 <ehird> you always tie shit in :-)
18:45:07 <AnMaster> in fact. change that question to be for the whole line
18:45:12 <AnMaster> it didn't make any sense to me
18:45:20 <ehird> AnMaster: to "tie foo in" is to make a roundabout conversation path to make reference to foo when the topic isn't really related
18:45:22 <AnMaster> each word did, just not the whole
18:45:23 <ehird> in this case, at least
18:45:30 <ehird> it's more generic than that, but that's what it means in this context
18:45:53 -!- jix_ has joined.
18:46:34 <ehird> question about sata
18:46:46 <ehird> it's synchronous, isn't it?
18:46:54 <ehird> that is, only one request at a time
18:48:48 <nooga> what's typedef foo bar, baz; ?
18:49:04 <ehird> typedef foo as both bar and ba
18:49:18 <ehird> AnMaster: apparently onboard raid is just software raid.
18:49:21 <nooga> it's in WinNT.h :D
18:49:24 <GregorR> chromakode: Timezones! Tiiiimezones! :P
18:49:35 <ehird> GregorR: wait, how can you know chromakode IRL if different timezones
18:49:49 <ehird> AnMaster: i don't know
18:49:53 <ehird> maybe it has a mini processor doing it
18:50:02 * ehird looks for a cheap raid card on newegg
18:50:17 <AnMaster> ehird, actually I have a BIOS menu for the RAID. But the manual says it needs Windows 2000, XP or Vista
18:50:20 <GregorR> ehird: We know each other from undergrad, now he's still in undergrad and I'm in grad school.
18:50:31 <GregorR> ehird: Although, I just realized that the problem wasn't timezones, but that I was on a plane :P
18:50:34 <ehird> GregorR: MATHEMATICALLY SUPERIOR TO CHROMAKODE
18:50:49 <GregorR> We were not the same grade :P
18:51:25 <AnMaster> ehird, if you want multiple pending requests to drive you want SCSI, SAS or Firewire iirc.
18:51:37 <ehird> hey, a raid 0/1/jbod controller with 61 reviews @ 5 eggs for $139.99, looks promis— FUCK IT'S SATA 1
18:51:43 <GregorR> Well, Gregor is now in Oregon again. l'vacation.
18:51:46 <ehird> and regular pci, wowz.
18:52:09 <AnMaster> <ehird> hey, a raid 0/1/jbod controller with 61 reviews @ 5 eggs for $139.99, looks promis— FUCK IT'S SATA 1 <-- yes, they make RAID cards iirc.
18:53:20 <ehird> Home > Computer Hardware > Hard Drives > Controllers / RAID Cards > Type[SATA ],Type[SATA / IDE ],Internal Connectors[4 x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[8 x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[16x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[12x SATA II ],Type[SATA II ],Internal Connectors[2 x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[1 x SATA II ],External Ports[8 x SATA II ],External Ports[2 x SATA II ],External Ports[4 x SATA II ],Type[SATA / SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) ],Internal Con
18:53:23 <ehird> nectors[24 x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[2 x SATA II + 1 x ATA 133 ], returned 3 results.
18:53:24 <AnMaster> ehird, "promis—" --> "Promise SuperTrak EX Series support (SCSI_STEX)"
18:53:26 <ehird> it looks like mathematica code.
18:53:32 <ehird> that's just awful,.
18:53:59 <ehird> I'm going to have to kill you
18:54:14 <ehird> i wish it didn't come to this
18:54:20 <GregorR> LEAST DRAMATIC SLAYING EVER
18:55:15 <AnMaster> it isn't valid if you don't list how you kill :P
18:55:40 <ehird> GregorR: it's like
18:55:52 <ehird> GregorR: a gun's silencer right?
18:55:55 <ehird> this is a dramatic silencer
18:55:59 <ehird> for all kinds of kill types
18:56:28 <ehird> * hitler does some killing
18:56:30 <ehird> AnMaster: who said bullet
18:56:33 <ehird> this is a dramatic silencer
18:56:36 <ehird> it works on all types of kill
18:56:44 <AnMaster> ehird, well how did you kill then
18:56:50 <AnMaster> I asked you and you didn't reply
18:56:56 <GregorR> I remember a "management utility" that represented all of your processes as monsters in IIRC the Doom engine.
18:57:01 <ehird> if I told you I'd have wasted the $7,000 I spent on the dramatic silencer!
18:57:11 <ehird> http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/
18:57:17 <AnMaster> ehird, um. The kill doesn't work without a reason on IRC
18:57:28 <ehird> 's what it was like before dramatic silencers
18:57:31 <ehird> this is a whole new world now
18:57:41 <GregorR> A whole new wooooooooooooooooooorld *song*
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18:58:05 <AnMaster> ehird, good thing I got heavy armour then. Bullet proof.
18:58:27 <ehird> who said I shot you
18:58:36 <AnMaster> ehird, "<ehird> http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ <ehird> AnMaster: that"
18:58:44 <ehird> 18:56 GregorR: I remember a "management utility" that represented all of your processes as monsters in IIRC the Doom engine.
18:58:50 <ehird> i meant to highlight GregorR
18:59:00 <ehird> 18:57 ehird: AnMaster: that
18:59:00 <ehird> 18:57 ehird: 's what it was like before dramatic silencers
18:59:06 <ehird> it was a mis-enter
19:00:08 <AnMaster> you can't just kill, you have to kill with something, like a weapon, or blunt trauma (possibly fist)
19:00:18 <ehird> dramatic silencer.
19:00:24 <ehird> keep up with the new irc tech.
19:00:44 <ehird> AnMaster: and creating your own fire poker as a magical oerjan-style weapon out of the blue is invalid too, but you insisted it worked :)
19:01:15 <AnMaster> ehird, a silencer itself can't kill, unless you you use it as a blunt weapon, throwing it against the victim or using it to bash the victim or whatever.
19:01:33 <ehird> AnMaster: you misunderstand
19:01:37 <ehird> a silencer silences the sound of a gun
19:01:46 <ehird> a dramatic silencer silences the record of any kill whatsoever on IRC
19:01:57 <ehird> it cost me $7k, dammit.
19:01:57 <nooga> gentlemans use word
19:02:26 <AnMaster> ehird, they recalled them. Didn't you know? Because it turned out they not only silenced the kill, they made it never happen.
19:02:39 <ehird> No they didn't. ← assertion technology
19:03:24 <ehird> SYBA SD-LP-PEX2IR PCI Express SATA II Controller Card - Retail
19:03:25 <ehird> Internal Connectors: 2 x SATA II
19:03:26 <ehird> RAID: Supported Raid 0, 1 (optional) Raid 10, 5 are supported, if drives are connected to a Port Multiplier
19:03:29 <AnMaster> Assertion failed: "<ehird> No they didn't. ← assertion technology" in channel "#esoteric".
19:03:44 <nooga> ehird: I am not deep.
19:07:30 <ehird> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816103105 ah, this looks nice
19:07:50 <AnMaster> at http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ what is the "BFG" mentioned
19:08:04 <ehird> AnMaster: the Big Fucking Gun.
19:08:06 <Deewiant> Weapon number 7, the most powerful in the game.
19:08:07 <ehird> It shoots giant gobs of plasma.
19:08:23 <AnMaster> ehird, um. That sounds like a god mode weapon?
19:08:37 <ehird> AnMaster: It doesn't kill everything in one shot, iirc, but it's damn powerful.
19:08:43 <ehird> Of course, it's hard to get.
19:09:08 <AnMaster> the "hard to get" like "you can only get it after the boss you would have needed it against" hard?
19:09:21 <ehird> No. Not that hard.
19:09:24 <ehird> AnMaster: it also has limited ammo.
19:09:40 <Deewiant> Vanilla Doom is so easy, you don't need it at all :-P
19:09:51 <AnMaster> I can't think of any shooting weapon that would have infinite ammo
19:10:05 <ehird> ... I can't think of anything infinite IRL apart from the universe.
19:10:34 <AnMaster> ehird, um we don't know that iirc. It could be "huge but finite" iirc
19:10:49 <ehird> We don't "know" anything.
19:10:56 <AnMaster> but I'm no expert on topology.
19:11:47 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm using the word "know" here as in: "the evidence is inconclusive, more research needed"
19:12:07 <AnMaster> which is a gross misuse of the exact meaning of "know" indeed!
19:12:43 <ehird> and even that's with the caveat "... as long as there aren't contradictions"
19:15:17 <AnMaster> that doom process interface... The implementation has some major of issues (like processes attacking the sysadmin; though it isn't clear if they only attack in self defence). But with some work I think it could actually work!
19:16:20 <ehird> It'd work best on a fun server where everyone is a sysadmin.
19:16:36 <ehird> Mutually untrusting sysadmins is a huge problem on a non-play system.
19:16:38 <AnMaster> ehird, believe me, co-admining a server is messy enough!
19:16:40 -!- fizzie has joined.
19:16:59 <ehird> Geeks aren't the most sociable
19:17:03 <AnMaster> people trying to solve the issue at the same time, from different parts of the world
19:17:25 <fizzie> Hmfh. Seems that orwell.freenode.net's (the FI server) not even trying to get back online.
19:17:58 <AnMaster> anyway: there are some processes that must never be killed, no matter what. Examples: init. the fake processes of the kernel, possibly syslog.
19:18:29 <ehird> what happens if you kill init?
19:19:33 <fizzie> "Kernel panic: Attempted to kill init!" At least I've seen something like that.
19:20:05 <Deewiant> So have I, but only when booting
19:20:24 <Deewiant> I wonder if the message is accurate and it triggers on the attempt, and thus init is immortal
19:20:36 <fizzie> "Note that 'init' is a special process: it doesn't get signals it doesn't want to handle. Thus you cannot kill init even with a SIGKILL even by mistake."
19:20:52 <Deewiant> Aye, thought something of the kind.
19:20:53 <fizzie> That's in arch/{a,lot,of,things}/signal.c.
19:21:04 <ehird> fizzie: Mommy says I'm speshul and don't need to listen to angry signals I don't wanna
19:21:14 <Deewiant> Killing init is like dividing by zero.
19:21:50 <ehird> zsh: floating point exception kill
19:21:56 <ehird> Deewiant: Indeed it is.
19:22:19 <Deewiant> In Soviet Linux, init kills you!
19:22:21 <fizzie> You get printk(KERN_WARNING "tried to kill init!\n"); if the OOM killer attempts accidentally to kill init.
19:22:39 <ehird> Deewiant: Set up a division by zero handler that tries to kill init
19:22:45 <ehird> If we can try one impossible thing, might as well try another.
19:23:05 <Deewiant> You'll end up with something like http://halshop.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/phpw9jvl0pm.jpg
19:23:27 <ehird> Inside that tunnel... init lurks.
19:23:48 <ehird> Process (1/0) is init.
19:25:03 <Deewiant> kill -9 1 indeed completes successfully but init duly ignores it.
19:25:18 <fizzie> More OOM killer code: p->rt.time_slice = HZ; set_tsk_thread_flag(p, TIF_MEMDIE); /* We give our sacrificial lamb high priority and access to all the memory it needs. That way it should be able to exit() and clear out its resources quickly... */
19:25:35 <ehird> the OOM killer gives its victim full access?
19:25:50 <fizzie> That's immediately before force_sig(SIGKILL, p);
19:26:05 <fizzie> So there's not much you can do with your high priority there.
19:26:09 <ehird> Damn that OOM's one sadistic bitch.
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19:44:13 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you disabled ht eh :P
19:44:24 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: is that thing running smoothly? What OS? FreeBSD?
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19:44:42 <ehird> coulda told you so
19:45:03 <bsmntbombdood> the most recent version of ion in ports or packages? from 2002
19:45:43 <ehird> well, you can't ship later than $time_tuomov_adopted_crackheaded_license_forcing_them_to_update_it_4eva
19:45:47 <ehird> but that was post-2002
19:45:55 <ehird> now switch over to the archside >:)
19:48:01 <ehird> "Linux has a NAZI theme--darwin evolution konquer. People who obsess on evolution are sick in the head. They all want to kill-off dumb people. "
19:49:07 <ehird> nothing whatsoever!
19:49:20 <ehird> it's by the weirdo who made this shitOS: http://www.losethos.com/v506.html
19:49:26 <ehird> it only runs in 64 bit real mode and you can only use 16 colours
19:49:29 <ehird> and it comes with a bible application
19:49:44 <ehird> quote from http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8kgvj/losethos_64bit_operating_system_v506_released_not/
19:50:29 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: 12GB?
19:50:32 <ehird> yes, that is a lot of ram
19:51:39 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: write a program that uses 4 threads to sort /dev/urandom
19:51:48 <ehird> well, 8 if you're using crappythreading ;))))))
19:52:08 <bsmntbombdood> run the same thing two times in a row - wall clock time the first run was 43.01 seconds, the second run was 43.02 seconds
19:52:36 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: that's just your computer becoming obsolete.
19:52:42 <ehird> little known fact is that they actually do this actively
19:52:47 <ehird> your computer really was faster when you first bought it
19:53:01 <nooga> love shack nananana
19:53:03 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: what's your cpu/ram/disk usages?
19:53:11 <nooga> my hdd usage is 1GB/h
19:53:49 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: er... what % of cpu (up to 800%) is used, how much ram is used, and what does df -h give
19:54:00 <ehird> i'm curious as to how much waste there is :-P
19:54:20 <AnMaster> ehird: http://rafb.net/p/XzzZgG24.html
19:54:28 <bsmntbombdood> with 8 threads running, cpu usage is 100%, load average is 8
19:54:28 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: is it reporting 8 sep counts
19:54:35 <ehird> AnMaster: too rafb.net; didn't use
19:54:43 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: ah. I meant without the crazy sort :-P
19:56:09 <bsmntbombdood> for each proccess it reports of percentage of the cpu it's running on
19:56:21 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: i meant systemwide usage
19:56:31 <ehird> CPU usage: 7.11% user, 8.00% sys, 84.89% idle
19:57:03 <bsmntbombdood> CPU: 0.3% user, 0.0% nice, 0.1% system, 0.0% interrupt, 99.5% idle
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19:58:11 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: what about memory?
19:58:28 <ehird> (does bsd have free(1)? My system doesn't)
19:59:00 <fizzie> There's a memory usage report in top, though.
19:59:10 <bsmntbombdood> Mem: 118M Active, 419M Inact, 490M Wired, 2356K Cache, 399M Buf, 11G Free
19:59:15 <ehird> fizzie: right, but does it include the "The system is reserving gigantic amounts of RAM for its nefarious purposes"
19:59:40 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: so 0.1GB out of 12GB
19:59:51 <ehird> (w/ 0.5GB or so reserved by the OS)
20:00:04 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: how loud's it? (Since I'm getting a similar system...)
20:00:34 <fizzie> htop on the university shell server says: 5348/62807MB; that's also rather a small percentage out of an absurd value.
20:00:55 <bsmntbombdood> but effective, mbmon says 35 degrees idle and 59 loaded
20:01:29 <ehird> you can get an i7 heastink/fan combination that's pretty silent and cools well for ~$45, iirc, but ofc that's only reasonable if it's bugging you
20:01:36 <ehird> but 35 degrees idle is niice
20:01:48 <bsmntbombdood> and the psu i think is making a high pitched whine
20:02:04 <ehird> i skimped a bit on the psu to get it in a case deal, sry
20:02:12 <ehird> apparently cheap psus whine like that
20:02:18 <ehird> meh, it had good reviews
20:02:41 <fizzie> According to 'sensors' this Athlon-X2 I have has a motherboard temperature of 39 degrees, CPU temperature of 30 degrees; while the on-CPU thermometers say 34 degrees for core 1, 36 for core 2. Not quite sure which one to believe.
20:03:29 <ehird> can you measure ram temperature with anything?
20:04:00 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: it's a cheap passive card... you said you didn't care about gfx cards :p
20:04:06 <ehird> didn't know it was hot, though
20:04:46 <ehird> didn't mean your ram :p
20:04:55 <ehird> I was just asking anyone if there was a program to look at ram temps
20:05:01 <fizzie> One of my cheap-ish passive cards (7600GT/8600GT) gets really hot too. Both have rather hueg heatsinks.
20:05:11 <ehird> but yeah, your ram is just a regulary ddr3 thing so it should run cool
20:06:48 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: which one
20:07:20 <ehird> but the media one?
20:07:41 <ehird> did you plug it in properly :p
20:08:28 <ehird> ..........................
20:08:58 <fizzie> There's a Logitech "gaming keyboard" (the G19) which has a 320x240 color LCD you can watch youtube stuff on; approximately half of the net-reviews say the keyboard's running some sort of a Linux-based embedded thing, but there are no details anywhere about how it actually works. It does have an external power brick, though. (But it also has an active-powered USB hub, so there.)
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20:09:36 <ehird> fizzie: Now that was non-sequitur!
20:09:45 <fizzie> Hey, it's still about hardware.
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20:20:46 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: tell newegg :P
20:21:58 <ehird> that's what i7, DDR3 and SSD will do to you.
20:22:07 <ehird> RAVAGE YOUR INSIDES
20:22:18 <ehird> it actually powers the application startup by sipping your soul…
20:22:33 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: start 50 firefoxes
20:23:56 <ehird> BSD userland is barren
20:24:35 * ehird shoves ftp://ftp.archlinux.org/iso/2009.02/archlinux-2009.02-ftp-x86_64.iso.torrent into bsmntbombdood's CD drive
20:25:04 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: debian stable?
20:25:07 <ehird> enjoy your obsolescence
20:25:38 <ehird> testing didn't even have ext4 stable last I checked
20:27:14 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: arch has ion3 20090110
20:28:05 <bsmntbombdood> good lord this person i'm talking to at newegg is either dumb, busy, or a really slow typer
20:28:12 <fizzie> Debian has "20090110-1" too.
20:28:23 <ehird> Debian's 20090110 is older than Arch's.
20:28:23 <fizzie> Though in non-free only.
20:28:27 <ehird> By pure law of nature.
20:28:41 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: the debian cd you downloaded was 64bit right
20:29:06 <ehird> fizzie: what version of xorg does debian have?
20:29:19 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: erm
20:29:33 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: i guess you only want to use 4gb of it
20:29:34 <fizzie> Current debian-installer daily build has kernel 2.6.29-1-amd64, so I guess it should do ext4 just fine.
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20:30:27 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: seriously, what?
20:30:34 <ehird> 32-bit os with 12gb of ram?
20:30:53 <ehird> that's just the ridiculust thing I ever heard.
20:31:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you'll really regret it
20:31:41 <fizzie> I don't know anything about xorg versioning; as far as I know Debian-unstable doesn't follow the most bleeding-edgeist stuff there, though. xserver-xorg-core is "1.6.1", whatever it means, and xorg itself is "7.4".
20:31:55 <bsmntbombdood> please return your sarcasm detector to the manufacturer for a tune up
20:32:02 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: oh.
20:32:23 <ehird> (set! (embarrassment-level ehird) infinity)
20:32:30 <ehird> in my defense, there are people that stupid in the world.
20:33:11 <fizzie> You don't get single huge process images, though.
20:33:55 <ehird> yeah, you'd have to split up any large computation
20:34:00 <ehird> which is ridiculous
20:35:18 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: btw, if you're gonna wipe the ssd to install $OS, use a tool to ATA SECURE ERASE it
20:35:28 <ehird> since otherwise the blocks from the old install will stay
20:36:08 <ehird> ATA SECURE ERASE is different
20:36:11 <ehird> you need to use a boot disk
20:36:34 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: i think intel point to a tool to do it
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20:37:59 <bsmntbombdood> ...this customer service rep wished me an "eggcellent day"
20:38:49 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: looking up that eraser thingy
20:38:52 <bsmntbombdood> easier than i thought to get them to replace it though
20:39:27 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: btw, if you're installing linux... do the align thing, srsly
20:39:33 <ehird> it's just a few commands and installing to LVM
20:40:12 <ehird> If you are doing a clean setup of your machine and want to restore your drive to its native state you’ll have to perform a secure erase. Intel distributed a tool with the first X25-M review kits called HDD ERASE. This tool will take any SSD and free every last page on the drive. Obviously you’ll lose all of your data but your drive will be super fast again!
20:40:15 <ehird> In order for HDDERASE to work you need to have your SATA controller running in Legacy IDE mode, you can select this in your BIOS. Your drive will have to be connected to one of the first four SATA ports off of the controller.
20:40:59 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Step one: make DOS bootdisk. Step two: Turn on legacy IDE shit in your BIOS. Step three: http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/HDDEraseWeb.zip
20:41:21 <fizzie> hdparm has a "--security-erase" flag nowadays.
20:41:37 <ehird> fizzie: does that just overwrite many times
20:41:41 <ehird> is a very specific command
20:41:58 <fizzie> It's under "ATA Security Feature Set", I would hope that's what it does.
20:42:13 <ehird> Well, you'd need to boot from a livecd anyway to do it.
20:42:42 <fizzie> Sure, and the hdparm flag is "EXPERIMENTAL AND NOT WELL TESTED. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK."
20:43:00 <fizzie> You might, for example, lose all your data. :p
20:50:26 <fizzie> Shouldn't look at the smartctl info, it makes me paranoidishically worrysome about the numbers I don't know how to interpret.
20:51:48 <fizzie> Well, the http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ has hdderase included by default.
20:53:42 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: i like how you'll spent $1.7k on a top-o'-the-range computer and then refuse to spend 5 minutes maintaining it :D
20:55:27 <fizzie> I'm not quite sure why you'd exactly have to wipe the disk, though; unless it's some sort of religious "this disk still smells like freebsd even though I made new filesystems" thing.
20:55:40 <ehird> fizzie: it's how SSDs work
20:55:48 <ehird> they try desperately not to reuse a block
20:56:02 <ehird> and when they have no blocks left, have to do the 2ms or so rewriting process on a write
20:56:13 <ehird> so you have to erase it totally to get back the blocks
20:56:34 <ehird> ATA TRIM support in OSes can help, but isn't really anywhere yet
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21:03:22 <AnMaster> ehird, http://pastebin.com/d5f49c085
21:10:14 <AnMaster> what I'm going to do is write a "kind of DSL" to do it. Basically a function taking pairs, which can return: false | {true, TranslatorFunction} | {sort, [Field, ...], [{Field,Field}, ...]}
21:10:25 <AnMaster> and possibly some other variants
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21:31:10 <ehird> also, eurgh debian
21:31:14 <ehird> why did i help him :^)
21:32:51 <ehird> yeah I even offered him Arch
21:32:58 <Gracenotes> I am one of them, most regretfully. I '$ cut' my files every day in remorse
21:33:14 <ehird> Gracenotes: I remember that Dasher screenshot you gave... that was the Ubuntu theme.
21:33:23 <ehird> SPREADING A BIT OF DISINFORMATION ARE WE?
21:34:03 <Gracenotes> personally, I use my favorite operating system, UIND
21:34:32 <AnMaster> ehird, did you look at that link?
21:35:02 <AnMaster> ehird, a single trivial rule won't solve that is my point
21:35:09 <ehird> Gracenotes: what's that OS that the crazy jap was posting about on /prog/ saying other OSes were whores and tools and this OS was a human
21:35:14 <ehird> because I used that before Anonix.
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21:36:22 <ehird> "At Railsconf 2009 the guys over at Phusion released Rubystein, a Wolfenstein clone written in Ruby."
21:36:26 <ehird> The epitome of Ruby's speed.
21:37:26 <impomatic> The original was written by the same guy who did RobotWar
21:37:41 <ehird> impomatic: I refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein_3D
21:37:48 <ehird> Someone ported it to Ruby, which is funny because Ruby is slow.
21:38:52 <ehird> impomatic: he didn't do robotwar
21:38:55 <ehird> he just ported it to the apple II
21:39:07 <ehird> "Warner died in March 2004 after a long battle with kidney disease."
21:39:22 <AnMaster> ehird, http://pastebin.com/d7f374825
21:39:40 <ehird> I can't read Erlang.
21:40:15 <impomatic> I thought he wrote the original, and ported it?
21:40:50 <ehird> Warner was a major contributor to the early PLATO system in not just the area of gaming but also as an educational content developer. RobotWar and its editor program RobotWrite originated on the PLATO system in the 1970s. This
21:40:57 <AnMaster> ehird, that is quite a trivial subset: [foo] [foo, bar] are lists, {a,b} is a 2-tuple, {a,b,c} is a 3-tuple. Foo is a variable, foo is an atom. _ means "match anything"
21:41:08 <ehird> i know, I just can't follow the logic, AnMaster
21:41:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, "Some other parts is not valid erlang syntax either"
21:41:32 <ehird> AnMaster: write it in haskell... same for lists... (a,b) is a tuple, foo is a variable, "foo" is an atom, _ means match anything >:)
21:41:43 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I don't care, but what did you mean with it :-P
21:41:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I need to translate it to foo(Ins, _) when Ins = foo; Ins = bar
21:42:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so it is regex style |
21:42:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and it is the syntax used in erlang -type and -spec specifications
21:42:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that would be correct yes
21:42:54 <ehird> I want to learn how to program the C-64's SID chip.
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21:43:08 <ehird> I don't know where to start :-)
21:43:22 <ehird> Nope, just a bunch of archives.
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21:44:28 <Deewiant> Have a look at http://web.archive.org/web/20070513193613/http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426444/ for instance.
21:44:40 <AnMaster> ehird, can a function have multiple entry points in haskell? LIke this set of pattern matching entry points used here.
21:44:51 <ehird> Although it's not "entry point".
21:45:07 <AnMaster> ehird, sure, names may differ.
21:45:13 <ehird> AnMaster: Also, rather than using "foo" for an atom, you could do data MyStuff = AnAtom | AnotherAtom Int | Foo
21:45:23 <ehird> where the Int is like passing {anotherAtom,3} in erlang
21:45:29 <ehird> (matched as (AnotherAtom x))
21:45:44 <ehird> Deewiant: that's more reference than tutorial
21:45:53 <AnMaster> Ett fel uppstod vid laddning av http://web.archive.org/web/20070513193613/http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426444/:
21:45:53 <AnMaster> Anslutningen var till web.archive.org på port 80
21:46:28 <Deewiant> Not when I posted that it wasn't
21:46:39 <AnMaster> ah now it works again. But slow
21:46:40 <ehird> AnMaster: It's our revenge for .se having google.
21:46:51 <AnMaster> ehird, damn, you stole my next comment!
21:47:11 <OoS> Web archive is slow here too. I've been searching for Programming Game stuff on there.
21:47:28 <AnMaster> OoS, it is *always* slow. Just usually not _this_ slow
21:49:43 <OoS> I've been going through the list of programming games at http://aiforge.net trying to archive the stuff which hasn't disappeared yet. I hate linkrot.
21:56:35 <ehird> "Handle it like nuclear waste! (i.e. with forks)"
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22:55:45 <fizzie> ehird: The same programming reference book I linked to has the SID waveforms and registers and such described.
22:55:57 <ehird> right; there's lots of references
22:56:19 <fizzie> Tutorials are for people who can't read references. :p
23:02:54 <ais523> ehird: you know earlier today you were talking about Google being down/slow, and I was talking about Internet politics?
23:03:00 <ais523> according to Slashdot, the two are linked
23:03:09 <ehird> Did Netcraft confirm it?
23:03:12 <ais523> it seems someone screwed up the routing rules at Google
23:03:17 <ais523> and it tried to route all its traffic via Asia
23:03:19 <ehird> fizzie: what was that comic with the army-of-wangs-stalking-nightmares thing?
23:03:59 <ais523> ehird: Google confirms it: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/this-is-your-pilot-speaking-now-about.html
23:05:48 <ais523> this reminds me of how Pakistan accidentally blackholed YouTube a while back, while just trying to block it within the country
23:06:02 <ais523> really, I'm not at all sure that managing the AS connections by hand is a good idea
23:06:32 <ais523> good thing an AS number is 16-bit, so there can only be about 65000 of the things messing up at most
23:07:20 <ais523> slightly less because some of them are private use
23:07:31 * ais523 idly wonders who's AS 1
23:07:48 <ehird> Ooh, slashdot reports that the Radeon HD 4890 has been clocked to 1GHz.
23:07:54 <ehird> How deliciously excessiv.
23:08:09 <Deewiant> lThere are 32-bit AS numbers, IIRC.
23:08:26 <ais523> heh: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/asnrequestform.html
23:08:31 <ehird> And there's a link to SPCR in the comments! How homely.
23:08:35 <ais523> that form scares me on about 3 levels
23:08:51 <Deewiant> ais523: http://www.iana.org/assignments/as-numbers/
23:08:57 <ehird> As of 1 January 2009, the RIPE NCC began assigning 32-bit (or four-byte) Autonomous System Numbers (ASNs) by default. This is in accordance with a common policy agreed on in all Regional Internet Registry (RIR) communities and described in the RIPE Document, Autonomous System (AS) Number Assignment Policies and Procedures.
23:09:01 <ehird> Deewiant: not exactly old.
23:09:06 <Deewiant> Couple of 32-bit ones at the bottom there.
23:09:12 <ais523> ah, if it's 32-bit nowadays they aren't in such short supply nowadays
23:09:16 <ehird> ais523: name the ways!
23:09:22 <ais523> well, the import: export: at the end
23:09:27 <ais523> "please tell us your routing policy"
23:09:33 <ais523> as if anyone would do that
23:09:41 <ais523> the things tend to change every few minutes
23:09:58 <ais523> we know ARIN owns it, but not who they gave it to
23:10:11 <ehird> ais523: how many ASs would you have to operate to get a good portion of the internet down?
23:10:12 <ais523> also, the fact that it's a template for an email you're supposed to send them
23:10:29 <ais523> ehird: the entire internet has been brought down by misconfiguring 1 before
23:10:35 <pikhq> I'd need a network map to be sure.
23:10:36 <ais523> although they're more robust against that sort of thing nowadays
23:10:50 <pikhq> ehird: This was probably '95 or earlier, I'd imagine.
23:10:51 <ais523> a few years ago it seems
23:10:53 <ehird> ais523: but, more realistically
23:10:56 <ais523> and it would only have blocked inter-AS routing
23:11:07 <ehird> as in, how many would you need to bring them down without much luck
23:11:19 <ais523> a small ISP somewhere in Asia somehow managed to advertise a zero-length route to every IPv4 address in existence
23:11:31 <pikhq> Now, about the worst that happens with misconfiguration is a single AS or a group of AS's are screwed up.
23:11:33 <ais523> and blackholed every IP there was as a result
23:11:40 <ehird> ais523: right, but that's just local
23:11:52 <ais523> length 0 is pretty short
23:11:56 <ehird> blackholed every IP ever?
23:11:57 <Deewiant> Also for anything that goes through there.
23:12:07 <ais523> ehird: unless it was within one ISP
23:12:13 <pikhq> ais523: A large number of ASs filter out obviously false routes.
23:12:15 <ais523> Deewiant: everything /would/ go through there, it was the shortest route!
23:12:17 <ehird> ais523: did anything happen to them?
23:12:18 <ais523> pikhq: all of them nowadays
23:12:32 <ais523> ehird: yes, they got Usenet Death Penaltied, except generalised to the whole internet
23:12:33 <pikhq> And it wouldn't necessarily be the shortest route.
23:12:34 <ehird> seems like that sort of stuff ought to be illegal :P
23:12:43 <ais523> all the ASes they were connected to terminated their agreements with them
23:12:46 <pikhq> There's still the hops it takes to get to that ISP.
23:12:47 <ais523> and so they went out of busineses
23:13:04 <ehird> operating an isp must suck
23:13:18 <Deewiant> ais523: I wasn't sure if it would spread that well, but evidently so.
23:13:31 <ais523> Deewiant: it wouldn't have been perfect
23:13:37 <ais523> I imagine it wouldn't have affected the length-1 peering agreements
23:13:43 <ais523> maybe not provider-peer-customer either
23:13:45 <pikhq> We've got rather brittle routing protocols.
23:13:52 <ais523> anything more complicated, though, would likely have ended up being blackholed
23:13:57 <ehird> oh, length 0 = you can get to me with no hops!
23:14:10 <ehird> ais523: are they lied about a lot?
23:14:11 <ais523> although that would be translated by the ASes next door
23:14:16 <ais523> into "you can get to bad-ISP in one hop"
23:14:20 <ais523> so it starts to diffuse slightly
23:14:33 <ais523> it's more fun than that
23:14:39 <pikhq> Length 0 means "That's one of my other interfaces."
23:14:44 <ais523> ASes are known to make routes look more convoluted than they are
23:14:53 <ehird> "Don't go here, man."
23:14:57 <ais523> in order to try to persuade routers to send the traffic another way
23:14:58 <ehird> "It'll take you aaaaaagges. Pick the other guy."
23:15:14 <ehird> ais523: so, essentially, the job of an AS operator is to ensure it gets used as little as possible?
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23:15:23 <ais523> and to get rid of the traffic ASAP if it turns up
23:15:45 <ais523> imagine you are on an AS that serves all of Europe
23:16:00 <ais523> and you want to send a packet to someone in Egypt on an AS that serves all of north Africa
23:16:11 <ais523> when you send it, it'll go south and then across Africa
23:16:17 <ais523> because your AS is trying to get rid of it as soon as they can
23:16:23 <pikhq> ehird: That's the job of any AS that uses peered links.
23:16:37 <ais523> the return packet will go north and across Europe, because that AS is trying to get rid of it as fast as /it/ can
23:16:38 <pikhq> An AS that purchases transit has a different job.
23:16:50 <pikhq> Send those packets the cheapest way possible.
23:16:51 <ais523> so round-trips tend to be actually round, rather than along a straight line
23:17:01 <pikhq> Even if that means sending it through your rack of modems. :p
23:17:25 <ais523> peering is all about passing as little traffic as you can, while persuading the other guy to pass as much of your traffic as you can persuade them to
23:17:46 <ais523> with purchasing, you can happily pass all the traffic your customer wants as it gives you an excuse to charge them extra
23:18:30 <ais523> ehird: another scary thing on that AS request form is the website-if-available
23:18:30 <pikhq> I think the only reason our current setup works at all is that IP is one ridiculously robust protocol.
23:18:37 <ais523> "Hi, I want to start an ISP. No, I don't have a website."
23:19:32 <ehird> I wonder if the ASs in the more socialist countries are better. :-P
23:20:57 <ais523> <AS Number Request Form> x-ncc-regid:
23:21:06 <ais523> that x- almost scares me more than the rest of the form
23:21:10 <ais523> although I'm not entirely sure why
23:21:26 -!- impomatic has left (?).
23:21:47 <ais523> ah, a bit of sanity: % Which address prefix will originate from the new AS number?
23:22:17 <ais523> which means that RIPE at least are planning to tell people what sort of sanity checks to put on new ASes
23:22:35 <ais523> if an ISP can only blackhole itself, it just ends up looking stupid rather than being ostracised to death
23:22:45 <ais523> and I'm sure RIPE would raise eyebrows if it was given 0.0.0.0/0
23:23:01 <ais523> like the top-tier ISPs end up being able to advertise
23:24:22 <ehird> ais523: what does that mean?
23:24:26 <ehird> the full ip space?
23:24:38 <ais523> ofc, they don't advertise the whole thing
23:24:44 <ais523> but they might need to advertise any individual bit of it
23:24:50 <ais523> depending on conditions elsewhere on the internet
23:25:12 <ais523> because the top-tier ISPs are top-tier precisely because people pay them to route anywhere without going via a parent ISP
23:25:29 <ehird> ais523: with all of these variables, I bet you could derive a mathematical proof that the internet can't possibly work
23:25:56 <ais523> as I've said before, it's been proven that it's uncomputable to determine whether it works at any given instant, even with perfect information
23:26:26 <ais523> that's different from a proof that it can't possibly work
23:30:03 <ais523> ooh, ASes have their own equivalent of example.com
23:30:23 <ais523> it's the range 65536-65551
23:30:36 <ais523> I have no idea what happens if you attempt to route there
23:30:41 <ais523> you'd have to be an ISP to even /try/
23:31:03 <ehird> well, then, let's fill out that form and see
23:31:11 <ehird> (↑ this is the kind of attitude I take to everything)
23:31:45 <ais523> RIPE would ask you to take out an account with them, I expect
23:31:52 <ais523> are they even the right continent?
23:32:26 <ehird> see? we're all set.
23:32:49 <ais523> there are instructions for filling out the form: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/asnsupport.html
23:33:24 <ehird> Enter your Registry Identifier (RegID) in the "x-ncc-regid:" field. RegIDs have the following format: <country code>.<name>.
23:33:25 <ehird> If you do not know your RegID, please contact <ncc@ripe.net>.
23:33:55 <ehird> AS Number Type: 16-bit
23:33:55 <ehird> Why 16-bit: Our routers are not 32-bit enabled.
23:34:02 <ehird> you can saturate the net with a perfect excuse!
23:34:10 <ais523> ehird: you may have problem filling in the bit where you mark the two ASs who will peer with you
23:34:25 <ais523> getting two existing ISPs to sponsor your application is likely beyond even your ability
23:34:26 <ehird> ais523: Bogons operates an open peering policy, and is keen to peer with ISPs, either publicly at a common Peering Point, or privately at a common site. We are especially keen to peer with networks offering multicast transit or to end users.
23:34:38 <ehird> it's two people, but unfortunately I think they're too ethical
23:34:41 <ais523> do you even /own/ an AS router?
23:34:54 <ehird> how much do they cost :^)
23:35:01 <ais523> apparently you can convert linux boxes into them
23:35:09 <ais523> so you could probably fix an old computer into one for free
23:35:29 <ehird> do I need any sort of special telephone line or something, like you need to start a dsl isp :-P
23:36:10 <ais523> seriously, you aren't going through with this, though, are you?
23:36:21 <ais523> I seriously wonder what RIPE's reaction would be
23:36:25 <ais523> this is a form of performance art
23:36:30 <ais523> like Agora running a court case against Hillary Clinton
23:36:47 <ehird> even though all the effort would come down to "We have decided to decline your AS application. -RIPE"
23:37:15 <ais523> what IPs would you advertise?
23:37:21 <ehird> ais523: can you choose?
23:37:24 <ais523> it can't be ones you already have, as they belong to a different ISP
23:37:30 <ais523> you have to rent out the IPs first
23:37:37 <ais523> from the people who assign IPs
23:37:48 <ais523> going IPv6 only would probably make it easier to get hold of a few IPs of your own
23:37:48 <ehird> ais523: advertising more IPs = more traffic coming my way, right?
23:38:00 <ais523> ehird: traffic comes your way only if it's to an IP you advertise
23:38:07 <ais523> and you get in trouble if you don't actually have a route to it
23:38:19 <ais523> you also advertise IPs that belong to your customers
23:38:24 <ehird> and, um, I'm going to be routing everything to the AS example.com
23:38:28 <ais523> because you don't carry traffic to other people
23:38:30 <ehird> I think "trouble" is an understatement
23:38:38 <ehird> (ok, I probably won't follow through with it...)
23:39:12 <ais523> probably not following through is all the best
23:39:12 <ehird> ais523: so how do you actually get traffic flow your way?
23:39:21 <ais523> well, most ISPs consider that a bad thing
23:39:32 <ais523> but if you're the (only|best) person who advertises an address
23:39:42 <ais523> then traffic to that address is sent to you, on the assumption that you know where to route it to
23:39:49 <ais523> so ISPs advertise the IPs of their customers, for instance
23:39:50 <ehird> wow, if you enable javascript on slashdot.org
23:39:53 <ehird> you get the endless pageless style
23:39:58 <ehird> (more items come as you scroll)
23:40:06 <ais523> yes, but so slowly it doesn't really feel endless
23:40:13 <ehird> fast enough for me
23:40:22 <ehird> ais523: the problem is that they don't do it before you get to the end
23:40:23 <ehird> which is the whole point
23:41:45 <ehird> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/14/0320234 "Cory Doctorow advocates impossible licensing technique in a desperate death throw attempt to give bits value"
23:42:12 <ais523> creative commons + a royalty requirement?
23:42:18 <ais523> has he checked that that isn't self-contradictory?
23:42:32 <ais523> but I'd advise at least reading the license you're modifying first
23:42:44 <ehird> Cory was one of the first major CC advocates
23:42:54 <ais523> for instance, with cc-by-sa + royalty requirement, who gets the royalties, the original author or the person who modified it?
23:43:45 <ehird> http://oxyron-party.untergrund.net/fanta_in_space.mp3 ← I can't believe this came out of a C-64.
23:44:02 <ais523> hmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_carrier is interesting
23:44:39 <ehird> By definition, a Tier 1 network does not purchase IP transit from any other network or pay settlements to any other network to reach any other portion of the Internet. Therefore, in order to be a Tier 1, a network must peer with every other Tier 1 network. A new network cannot become a Tier 1 without the implicit approval of every other Tier 1 network, since any one network's refusal to peer with it will prevent the new network from being considered a Ti
23:44:43 <ais523> the funny thing, of course, is that most traffic's handled by peering at the tier-2 level
23:45:02 <ehird> actually, the list of tier 1 networks is rather disturbing
23:45:05 <ais523> and yes, if there are any two tier 1 networks who don't peer, it causes a rift in the internet
23:45:11 <ehird> most of them are gigantic blob ISPs
23:45:21 <ehird> like AT&T, Verio, Qwest, Sprint, Verizon...
23:45:28 <ais523> there are other ways to do that, but tier 1 vs. tier 1 is a rather simple way
23:45:59 <ais523> ooh, Cogent settled with Sprint
23:46:05 <ais523> I was wondering how that particular rift got sealed
23:46:14 <ais523> but it seems Cogent's paying Sprint money now to maintain the same relationship as before
23:46:28 <ehird> I've never heard good stuff about Cogent
23:46:55 <ehird> A case of industrial espionage arose in 1995 that involved both Intel and AMD. Guillermo Gaede, an Argentine formerly employed both at AMD and at Intel's Arizona plant, was arrested for attempting in 1993 to sell the i486 and Pentium designs to AMD and to certain foreign powers.[23] Gaede videotaped data from his computer screen at Intel and mailed it to AMD, which immediately alerted Intel and authorities, resulting in Gaede's arrest. Gaede was convicte
23:46:57 <ehird> d and sentenced to 33 months in prison in June 1996.[24][25]
23:47:11 <ehird> "I'm just going to send this to AMD out of the blue. They'll like that!"
23:47:47 <coppro> wait, AMD alerted Intel?
23:47:55 <ais523> if someone sends you a competitor's secret stuff
23:48:01 <ais523> you tell them so as not to be accused of using it
23:48:08 <ehird> that's not really respect
23:48:17 <ehird> it's a very trivial kind of ethics
23:48:23 <ehird> that even slimes probably know of :P
23:48:38 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Intel_Costa_12_2007_SJO_105b.jpg the little blocks look like heatsinks.
23:49:18 <Slereah_> Intel is actually a giant processor
23:49:20 <ehird> "No one has an office; everyone, even Otellini, sits in a cubicle."—[[Intell Corporation]]
23:49:37 <ais523> nah, the entire company of Intel lives inside my computer
23:49:45 <ais523> have you not seen their advertising?
23:49:45 <ehird> ais523: what happens when you turn it off?
23:49:52 <ais523> ehird: presumably they keep working
23:49:58 <ais523> they're large enough to have their own power supply
23:50:21 <ehird> ais523: so if you left it off long enough ...
23:50:42 <ais523> well, presumably they sometimes get hungry and pop out for a pizza
23:50:47 <ais523> but they're american, so they only do it while I'm asleep
23:50:56 <ais523> timezone difference, you see
23:51:02 <ehird> must be a dangerous place for someone so small
23:51:41 <ehird> wow, intel kept the same logo from 1968-2005
23:51:51 <ais523> and then changed it? no wonder they're in trouble
23:52:03 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Intel_Logo.svg old
23:52:04 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Intel-logo.svg new
23:52:05 <ais523> changing a logo you haven't changed for decades strikes me as the sort of thing companies only do when desperate
23:52:07 <ehird> I prefer the new one tbh
23:52:28 <ais523> yes, even if it is an improvement, it's not the sort of thing a company does when they're doing well
23:52:40 <ais523> and I prefer the new one too
23:52:44 <ehird> ais523: I think Intel were doing well in 2005. Remember, they came out with the Core 2 processors then.
23:52:48 <ehird> Those were *wildly* successful.
23:53:14 <ehird> Core doesn't run the Core architecture
23:53:19 <ehird> Core 2 runs the Core architecture; are you confused yet?
23:53:35 <ehird> oh, and Core weren't desktop CPUs
23:53:44 <ehird> they were mobile cpus based on P6
23:53:45 <ais523> core 2 was one of Intel's first really succesfull CPUs in ages
23:53:51 <ehird> oh wait, core was 2006-2008
23:53:54 <ehird> so you had core and core 2 simultaneously
23:54:00 <ehird> core was based on P6 and was a mobile processor
23:54:06 <ehird> core 2 was based on Core and was a desktop processor
23:54:19 <ehird> the Core processor appeared in the mac mini
23:54:24 <ehird> despite not being a desktop processor
23:54:27 <ehird> are you confused yet?
23:56:04 <ais523> no, but only because I wasn't trying to follow it
23:57:20 <ais523> anyway, if you want to screw around with ASes, it only takes a minimum 8 computers to make an Internet
23:57:33 <ais523> yes, the traditional Jeremy Clarkson deliberate error is correct here
23:57:44 <ehird> The Internets connect to form an Internet!
23:57:49 <ais523> in fact, it's generally believed that more than one Internet exists as it is, there's just the one big famous one
23:58:16 <ais523> and if you make your own Internet, you can assign all the AS numbers and IPs as you like
23:58:18 <ehird> "generally believed"?
23:58:28 <ais523> well, the US Army almost certainly has one
23:58:34 <ehird> an internet is just a network of computers that is international :P
23:58:34 <ais523> but it's hard to tell for certain
23:58:43 <ais523> an internet is a network of network
23:58:50 <ehird> ais523: step one, join army, step two, see if there's any internets?
23:59:11 <ais523> I imagine the Army mostly uses the well-known public Internet
23:59:15 <ehird> (step 3, get killed in staged combat so you don't reveal the horrible secret of the army's cthulhunet)
23:59:27 <ais523> but I wouldn't be surprised if it had a private one too, for more important or secret messages
23:59:37 <ais523> Intellipedia is known to exist, after all
23:59:47 <ais523> it's like a US Wikipedia for spies
23:59:50 <ais523> it even runs MediaWiki
23:59:52 <ehird> more than known to exist
23:59:52 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Screenshot-Intellipedia.png