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00:44:33 <coppro> !bfjoust coppro_flipflop (+-)*256[>[-].+]
00:44:34 <EgoBot> Score for coppro_flipflop: -3 (maximum 11)
00:45:32 <coppro> !bfjoust coppro_flipflopagain []+.-[>[-].+]
00:45:34 <coppro> !bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20
00:45:43 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_shortsword: -5 (maximum 12)
00:45:51 <EgoBot> Score for coppro_flipflopagain: -7 (maximum 11)
00:54:14 <coppro> I don't think that shortsword is easily killable
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01:01:49 <oerjan> !bfjoust oerjan_attempt1 (>-->+>--)*2(>)*4([-[+]]>)*20
01:01:54 <EgoBot> Score for oerjan_attempt1: -4 (maximum 11)
01:03:33 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for bfjoust!
01:05:03 <ehird> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt
01:05:11 <ehird> 8 | + + + + 0 + 0 + + 0 | 72.0| 7| oerjan_attempt1.bfjoust
01:05:17 <ehird> !bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20
01:05:23 <ehird> (just putting shortsword against yours - the current king)
01:05:24 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_shortsword: -4 (maximum 11)
01:05:57 <oerjan> shouldn't there be an in_egobot in there?
01:05:58 <ehird> oerjan: Congrats, you have a challenger to shortsword.
01:06:04 <ehird> that works too though
01:06:10 <ehird> oerjan: I can't get yours and impomatic's on the same hill
01:06:17 <ehird> but his gets 6 on the hill yours gets 7
01:07:07 <oerjan> well i constructed it specifically to beat it
01:07:42 <oerjan> switching + and - will probably beat me again
01:08:06 <ehird> oerjan: it doesn't beat shortswor
01:08:12 <ehird> due to the hill kicking off good ones
01:08:14 <ehird> but on the hill of crapness
01:08:29 <oerjan> oh that's even better then
01:09:15 <ehird> oerjan: but the crap hill just suicides very creatively
01:29:16 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: hook it up to your new computer
01:29:23 <ehird> and use it as a 9th cpu
01:30:30 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Stick Xen on it and on your main system.
01:30:43 <pikhq> Migrate VMs back and forth.
01:37:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: turn green
01:37:44 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: or, use it as a router/server
01:39:45 <pikhq> I need a better router.
01:40:12 <ehird> pikhq: Buy a Linksys linux one and put OpenWRT on it.
01:40:23 <ehird> Tiny, efficient, mini linux box already set up to do all that shit.
01:40:46 <pikhq> ehird: But that, and, ... IT DOESNT DO x86!
01:40:56 * pikhq currently uses a PII as a router.
01:41:06 <ehird> pikhq: not doing x86 is a huge plus!
01:41:08 <pikhq> Has the following benefits: cost me nothing.
01:41:17 <ehird> The probably-RISC architecture they use is probably way better.
01:41:25 <ehird> also, my linksys cost about £35
01:41:31 <ehird> and it wasn't the cheapest
01:42:03 <pikhq> Sure. But my current router is a massive, cheap Debian box.
01:42:35 <pikhq> And it has a whole 10G hard drive space. :p
01:42:43 <ehird> pikhq: You said you needed something better.
01:42:46 <ehird> I gave you something way better ;)
01:42:53 <pikhq> ehird: I was joking.
01:43:06 <ehird> [[Are you struggling with unwanted same-sex attractions? Maybe you have lived as a homosexual for a long time, but now are looking for a way out. You have come to the right place! For thirty years, Exodus International has offered hope and help to people seeking freedom from homosexuality. We believe and we have seen in thousands of lives that this freedom is possible through the power of God working in our hearts and minds.
01:43:09 <ehird> The bottom line - you don't have to be gay! You can lead a life of fulfillment and holiness as God intended, a life far better than what you have experienced so far.]]
01:43:15 <ehird> Ahh, some quackery with my... nighttime... lack of coffee.
01:43:22 <ehird> Well sheesh, that phrase failed badly.
01:43:29 <pikhq> Though if I had a P4 as a router, I'd be able to use it for distcc.
01:43:36 <pikhq> Which'd be kinda funny.
01:43:37 <ehird> pikhq: Why does it require P4
01:43:57 <pikhq> ehird: It doesn't, it just requires something speedy *enough* that I'd get a benefit out of it.
01:44:24 <pikhq> Especially since it'd most likely be a cross-compiler.
01:44:42 <pikhq> That is irrelevant.
01:44:58 <pikhq> gcc targetting x86_64 is just as fast as targetting x86.
01:45:13 <pikhq> Which is just as fast as it targetting, say, PDP11.
01:45:27 <pikhq> With the BSD ABI instead of the Sys V one.
01:45:35 <ehird> pikhq: actually, more complex architectures may take more time
01:45:55 <pikhq> ehird: x86_64 isn't significantly more complex than x86, anyways.
01:46:00 <pikhq> So in that case, it's irrelevant.
01:46:19 <pikhq> (in a way, it's simpler. More registers makes the register allocation very happy)
01:47:52 <bsmntbombdood> there's still a ridiculously small amount of registers
01:47:52 <pikhq> Speaking of. That's the best thing about x86_64. More registers.
01:48:09 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Yes, but less ridiculously so.
01:48:34 <pikhq> They didn't do much else.
01:48:47 <pikhq> 64-bit addresses. Whoo.
01:49:02 <pikhq> It'd be much nicer if they, say, decided to go for 64 registers, though.
01:49:21 <pikhq> Oh, right. They also added 64-bit arithmetic.
01:49:44 <bsmntbombdood> sha512 is faster than sha256 on a 64 bit processor
01:49:48 <pikhq> Though it has one major flaw.
01:50:20 <pikhq> Imagine if it had a completely different instruction set in long mode? :p
01:50:49 <ehird> i want to become an intel strategist and devise a plan to replace x86 incrementally
01:51:03 <ehird> one step at a time so nobody knows what's hitting the,
01:51:13 <pikhq> I want to become an AMD strategist so I can coordinate.
01:51:16 <bsmntbombdood> mostly it's the backwards compatibility that sucks
01:51:51 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: And its backwards compatibility is the reason for everything in it.
01:52:18 <ehird> pikhq: 'cept, if Intel makes popular extensions to x86, AMD pretty much has to adopt it
01:52:23 <ehird> if AMD proposes something, Intel will just ignore it
01:52:36 <pikhq> Except in the case of x86_64.
01:53:04 <pikhq> ehird: By "coordinate", I mean convince AMD that it's a good idea at the same time you convince Intel it's a good idea.
01:53:27 <pikhq> So that x86 is replaced without *anyone* knowing what's hitting them.
01:53:48 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Intel makes Itanium and a number of microcontrollers.
01:54:16 <pikhq> AMD makes a series of common vector processors under the brand of ATi.
01:54:23 <bsmntbombdood> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Itanium_Sales_Forecasts_edit.png
01:55:27 <pikhq> They used to make some MIPS chips; that division got sold off in 2006.
01:56:44 * pikhq does a spit-take at AMDs future plans
01:56:51 <pikhq> You know the northbridge?
01:57:46 <bsmntbombdood> because that's all that the northbridge does for a core i7
01:58:28 <pikhq> AMD Fusion has PCIe lanes coming off of it.
01:59:04 <pikhq> It also has a GPU on the die.
01:59:53 <bsmntbombdood> i thought you were talking about what you would do
02:00:33 <pikhq> Talking about what AMD is doing.
02:01:11 <bsmntbombdood> putting the gpu and the cpu in the same package is going to require one badass heatsink
02:12:17 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/quine.sss
02:12:22 <EgoBot> ////\\/\\\/\\\/\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\/////\//\////\////\///\////\///\////\///\////\///\///\///\///\////\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\////\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\////\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\////\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\///\////\////\///\////\///\////\///\////\///\///\///\////\///\////\///\///\////\////\////\////\///\////\///\////\////\///\////\////\///\////\///\////\///\////\///\///\///\////
02:13:00 <oerjan> EgoBot: you cheater you cut it off ;(
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02:25:03 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo.simplexity (>->+)*5[[-]>-]
02:25:05 <EgoBot> Score for taejo_simplexity: -3 (maximum 11)
02:35:10 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo.simplexity2 (>-->+)*5[[-]>-]
02:35:12 <EgoBot> Score for taejo_simplexity2: -3 (maximum 11)
02:35:44 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo.simplexity (>->+)*5[[-]>-]
02:35:50 <EgoBot> Score for taejo_simplexity: -5 (maximum 11)
02:36:20 <pikhq> !bfjoust why? (+)*1234567890
02:36:53 <EgoBot> Score for why_: -7 (maximum 11)
02:37:02 <bsmntbombdood> i am trying to figure out how to sort a register of 4 floats with sse
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02:53:00 <Slereah> http://www.daisyowl.com/comic_images/132.gif
02:53:48 <oerjan> as long as it isn't turtles
03:46:11 <psygnisfive> dont the first three slashes produce no change??
03:46:35 <Slereah> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum_Blum_Shub
03:46:41 <psygnisfive> //... should swap nothing for nothing in ...
03:46:56 <oerjan> indeed, EgoBot cannot have given the right output
03:48:36 <oerjan> the actual first command is /\/\/\/\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/
03:49:13 <oerjan> the whole quine is 1496 characters iirc
03:52:59 <oerjan> there was already a /// quine on the wiki, but it was in the "cheating" section
03:56:33 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter2.sss
03:57:14 <oerjan> it doesn't do that DCC thing...
03:57:56 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter2.sss
04:00:01 <oerjan> anyway the quine works perfectly from a shell, says diff
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12:55:40 <Slereah> I am Heron of Alexandria. I have a large baerd and I create matematical formluas. If you don't repost this comment on 10 other pages, I will use my primitive steam engine to induce mold in your walls.
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14:25:53 <asiekierka> I'm making a BF interpreter for the C64
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14:33:08 <asiekierka> also, found a GREAT randomizing routine that uses the C64 clocks
14:34:32 <asiekierka> not like I'll use it but hey, a great find
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14:40:56 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter3.sss
14:41:47 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
14:42:26 * oerjan thinks EgoBot must be ill
14:43:05 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
14:44:11 <oerjan> looks like it may have trouble with the userinterps
14:46:31 <oerjan> !rot13 http://oerjan.nvg.org/
14:47:11 <oerjan> it seems it is having trouble with the perl userinterps
14:47:20 <oerjan> maybe it's connected to the \ problem...
14:47:45 <oerjan> !perl print "Hi\tthere!"
14:49:51 <oerjan> !ook ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>.
14:50:07 <oerjan> that also uses perl iirv
14:50:16 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
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14:53:07 <oerjan> i don't think spaces are legal
14:53:47 <oerjan> there's no separate interpreter for h, it's one perl program
14:55:15 <EgoBot> Interpreter slashes deleted.
14:55:44 <oerjan> !addinterp slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes-int
14:55:44 <EgoBot> Interpreter http___oerjan_nvg_org_esoteric_slashes_slashes_int does not exist!
14:55:54 <oerjan> !addinterp slashes perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes-int
14:55:55 <EgoBot> Interpreter slashes installed.
14:56:24 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter3.sss
14:56:40 <asiekierka> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter3.sss
14:57:31 <oerjan> it should give you a growing triangle of asterisks
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15:42:21 * oerjan swats FireFly -----###
15:43:03 <oerjan> these bugs are getting darn tough, just smiling at my swatter!
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15:52:24 <oerjan> that's evolution for you
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16:06:41 <asiekierka> I SO want to make homebrew for... guess what
16:07:37 <asiekierka> sadly I can only use an emulator because the cheapest Odyssey I've found is selling at $142,50 US dollars!
16:10:24 <asiekierka> Ok, found a SLIGHTLY cheaper one, $99 dollars
16:14:46 <ehird> 00:53 pikhq: ehird: By "coordinate", I mean convince AMD that it's a good idea at the same time you convince Intel it's a good idea. ←o
16:15:28 <ehird> 00:54 bsmntbombdood: gpus don't count ← why not
16:18:21 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Itanium_Sales_Forecasts_edit.png ← i like to think this is counting total sales
16:18:28 <ehird> OVER 35 SALES OF ITANIUM
16:27:20 <asiekierka> i want to make homebrew for the Magnavox Odyssey, the only video game consoles that didn't have sound and graphics
16:27:51 <asiekierka> it had two dots and no rules, just cartridges... well, we would call them configuration sets nowadays :P
16:29:25 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: because we were tlaking about x86 replacements
16:29:50 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: and?
16:29:53 <ehird> a gpu is quite viable for that
16:29:59 <ehird> look at the multicore explosion
16:30:10 <ehird> whatever you say, bsmntbombdood.
16:30:16 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: tell that to cuda
16:31:27 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: i'd be willing to wager you could do rendering on a gpu, though
16:32:12 <ehird> i was responding to your firefox claim.
16:32:46 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: what
16:32:52 <ehird> not the displaying to screen
16:32:54 <ehird> the actual rendering
16:33:05 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: and don't fucking say it's not slow, go compare curl and firefox sometime
16:33:13 <ehird> rendering is a huge bottleneck
16:35:04 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: multithread it, oh, 8 times
16:35:12 <ehird> then multithread it a goddamn bajillion times on a gpu
16:35:19 <ehird> i'll bet $10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 the gpu kicks its ass
16:35:48 <bsmntbombdood> multithreading it 8 times is a million times easier than 'multithreading' it for a gpu
16:36:02 <ehird> that's a limitation of languages
16:37:25 <ehird> web rendering is not among them
16:37:35 <ehird> cool i've gotten myself into one of those arguments where both side just asserts shit
16:37:46 <ehird> these are always (a) fun, (b) productive
16:41:03 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8gkzd/does_anyone_know_cuda_whats_the_best_way_to_learn/c097uue
16:42:29 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: note— by gpus replacing x86 i do not mean in their exact current form.
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17:48:40 <AnMaster> hm where is ais when you need him
17:50:01 <ehird> Doing other things
17:59:59 <impomatic> Any news on the BF Joust hill? When it will be modified to keep the best programs.
18:01:26 <ehird> When GregorR wakes up?
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18:43:13 <AnMaster> great.... gdb itself segfaulting trying to print backtrace of segfaulted C++ program
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18:48:37 <ehird> AnMaster: attach a gdb to gdb
18:48:41 <ehird> you may need the Xzibit Edition
18:49:06 <ehird> comes with free matryoshka doll
18:49:14 <ehird> AnMaster: you have the memory of a sieve
18:49:32 <AnMaster> #0 _IO_vfprintf_internal (s=<value optimized out>, format=<value optimized out>, ap=<value optimized out>) at vfprintf.c:198
18:49:32 <AnMaster> #1 0x000000304ca6e60a in _IO_vsnprintf (string=<value optimized out>, maxlen=<value optimized out>, format=<value optimized out>, args=<value optimized out>)
18:49:32 <AnMaster> #2 0x000000000044ba25 in xsnprintf ()
18:49:37 <AnMaster> #3 0x000000000044bf79 in ?? ()
18:49:56 <AnMaster> #8 0x000000000054eebc in cp_print_value_fields ()
18:49:56 <AnMaster> #9 0x000000000054f1a7 in cp_print_value_fields ()
18:50:09 <AnMaster> seems to call itself body recursive quite a lot
18:52:28 <pikhq> And I'm giggling. :)
18:55:21 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo_simplexity (>->+)*5[[-]>-]
18:55:24 <EgoBot> Score for taejo_simplexity: -2 (maximum 11)
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19:03:59 <asiekierka> my Joust program is specifically made to beat the + part of it
19:04:06 <asiekierka> change it to ++ and my program will fail
19:05:21 <Taejo> asiekierka: but then you can just change *your* program to beat mine
19:05:55 <Taejo> by alternating, neither opposing strategy is clearly victorious
19:06:15 <Taejo> btw, any idea why my programs aren't showing up on the report?
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19:08:58 <pikhq> AnMaster: Crashing GDB.
19:09:50 <ehird> Taejo: they're too good
19:09:56 <AnMaster> pikhq, ah. It was a C++ program... I guess that could have affected it
19:10:14 <pikhq> AnMaster: Still impressive.
19:10:14 <AnMaster> also... when I recompile that C++ program at -O0, it no longer crashes... HATE HATE HATE
19:10:33 <ehird> Woo, optimization changing behaviour.
19:10:36 <ehird> Gcc does that very often.
19:10:50 <ehird> *optimizations, *GCC
19:10:56 <ehird> g++ is really not a very good compiler.
19:11:08 <pikhq> ehird, does clang + LLVM?
19:11:21 <ehird> clang/llvm are generally more rigorous than gcc
19:11:24 <ehird> so i'd expect less so
19:11:41 <AnMaster> even worse... Half of the comments/types/function names in the code are in English, half in German
19:11:43 <pikhq> I suspect that that alone may be cause for clang/llvm to replace GCC.
19:11:47 <ehird> The problem with C++ compilers is that the language is such a goddamn pain and takes so long to implement that by the end you're asking for money just to heal your wounded soul.
19:12:13 <ehird> So if there's an open C++ compiler, by definition the authors' souls are intact, and therefore it must be bad.
19:12:14 <pikhq> True enough. C++ is an abomination.
19:12:31 <ehird> (Authors'. No one man could create a C++ compiler.)
19:12:32 <pikhq> And it's such a shame that we use C++, and not Objective C.
19:12:44 <ehird> apart from maybe walter bright
19:12:48 <ehird> pikhq: obj-c has a large runtime overhead
19:12:54 <ehird> it's effectively a dynamic smalltalk object system
19:13:03 <ehird> AnMaster: creator of Digital Mars C/C++ compiler, and D
19:13:13 <ehird> and C++ back then was nothing like what it was today
19:13:24 <ehird> AnMaster: he's the origin of that quote saying that a new C++ compiler would take ~15 years
19:13:27 <pikhq> ehird: ... Compared to C++?
19:13:39 <pikhq> C++ has a ridiculous overhead these days. ;p
19:13:43 <ehird> C++ has no dynamic overhead for most features
19:13:50 <ehird> for instance, none if you just use classes and methods
19:13:50 <pikhq> Granted, most of that isn't dynamic.
19:13:52 <ehird> if you use those in obj-c?
19:13:55 <ehird> gigantic overhead batman
19:14:11 <pikhq> That's just a large bunch of assembly, rather than runtime library stuff.
19:14:49 <ehird> pikhq: Look up an objective-c method lookup sometime.
19:14:56 <ehird> goes something like
19:15:01 <ehird> sendmsg(a,"b:d:",c,e);
19:15:06 <pikhq> No, I mean C++'s overhead is a large bunch of assembly, rather than runtime library stuff.
19:15:13 <ehird> I'm talking about efficiency
19:15:18 <AnMaster> FUN. Now the GUI shows up in a mix of German, English, and internal variable names... Independent of the language I select in the startup menu
19:15:21 <ehird> a method call in obj-c is very expensive. in C++? 0 overhead
19:15:27 <pikhq> Objective C has a lot of overhead, but it's not an abomination.
19:16:23 <ehird> pikhq: right, it's just e.g. Factor moved to C++ recently, only using non-overheading features; couldn't do that with objc
19:16:40 <AnMaster> Actually in this program overhead would be bad. It is a "real time" simulation game... But C++ still has quite a bit of overhead...
19:16:52 <ehird> only some features
19:17:02 <pikhq> AnMaster: You're better off doing psuedo-OO with structs. :p
19:17:04 <AnMaster> ehird, virtual functions for example
19:17:05 <ehird> just defining a class, having some methods, a few templates, a namespace here and there, some references...
19:17:11 <ehird> virtual functions, yes, overhead
19:17:13 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes, it is more readable, and easier to maintain too
19:17:17 <ehird> but the overheading features are in the minority
19:17:49 <AnMaster> Unable to load any language files
19:17:49 <ehird> pikhq: OO structs in C would work if not for one thing:
19:17:50 <AnMaster> *** PLEASE INSTALL PROPER BASE FILES ***
19:17:56 <Taejo> what is the timestep limit on bfjoust matches?
19:18:01 <ehird> (a) ONE WORD THE FORCED CASTING OF SUBCLASSES THREAD OVER,
19:18:06 <AnMaster> (why on earth, and how on earth)
19:18:20 <ehird> Taejo: like 3 seconds
19:18:29 <ehird> on a vps server thingy.
19:18:43 <Taejo> ehird: so it's a realtime limit rather than a number of steps?
19:18:51 <ehird> no, i think its a number of steps
19:18:57 <ehird> but if it's 3 seconds, that's either
19:19:00 <ehird> (a) a bloody lot of steps, or
19:19:04 <ehird> (b) a very slow interpreter
19:19:30 <pikhq> I think we can all agree that there's nothing worse in C-with-objects land than GObjects.
19:19:59 <ehird> Why did you have to say that?
19:20:03 <ehird> Those memories... therapist...
19:20:30 <ehird> pikhq: Thanks, you just cost me $5,000 for another therapist.
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19:21:04 * pikhq gets a vat of brain bleach out
19:21:44 <ehird> pikhq: btw, you can actually do struct-objects where obj->foo() works
19:22:00 <ehird> By patching some padded nops in the native code to push the object in question, when you allocate it.
19:22:39 <pikhq> ehird: Or alternately, store function pointers in the struct. ;)
19:22:50 <ehird> pikhq: ...er, that's how obj->foo(obj,...) works
19:22:55 <ehird> I was extending it to remove the redundancy.
19:23:02 <ehird> By patching the native code pointed to by the function pointers.
19:23:06 <ehird> To add obj as the first argument.
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19:54:33 <impomatic> Someone commented on my blog to tell me off for censoring Brainfuck to Brainf***! :-)
19:55:44 <ais523> yes, the correct censorship is B****fuck, so as not to offend zombies
19:56:09 <ehird> I once visited a forum that had phpBB censors set up so that fu*k, f***, f*ck etc all filtered to fuck
19:56:15 <ehird> That was quite amusing
19:56:58 <ehird> impomatic: ooh, a new OISC?
19:56:59 <impomatic> I've just been banned from a forum that censored all words containing bat, power, cave, turnip
19:57:03 <ehird> in the corewar instruction set?
19:57:07 <ais523> or BF is also fine, as thats a cross between a censorship and an abbreviation
19:57:13 <ehird> impomatic: haha. why'd you get banned?
19:57:36 <ais523> ehird: too long to type
19:57:44 <ais523> bf is fine to just slip into the middle of a message
19:57:48 <ais523> so I often use it on IRC
19:58:03 <ehird> If[condition,t,f,u]
19:58:03 <ehird> gives u if condition evaluates to neither True nor False.
19:58:15 <ehird> Mathematica. That's not how it works.
19:58:44 <ais523> ehird: did you see my Agora post about VHDL booleans?
19:58:58 <ais523> do you better understand why they're 9-valued, now?
19:59:30 <impomatic> Bathroom would be censored to ***hroom. Batch to ***ch. It's amazing how many words contain bat.
19:59:43 <impomatic> ehird: banned for complaining about censorship ;-)
20:00:01 <ehird> ais523: amusement, I assume
20:00:11 <ehird> i take it this forum has no serious topic :-)
20:00:31 <impomatic> The owner of the forum dislikes a couple of people online. On of the has a forum called Bat Cave.
20:00:32 <ais523> what might be interesting would be a forum which censored every trademark in existence
20:00:45 <ais523> impomatic: and the other one has a forum called power turnip?
20:01:38 <impomatic> A blog called Turnip of Power which is virtually devoted to discrediting the guy who runs the forum!
20:02:53 <ehird> agh! so many ads!!
20:04:02 <ehird> oh, we're talking about a spawn of a devil here
20:05:26 <ehird> impomatic: so is the forum the forum of the ad network or something?
20:05:29 <ehird> this is very complicated
20:06:48 <impomatic> I hate online politics. Bloggers are always falling out. The forum is http://forums.entrecard.com - another ad network, but the forums used to be pretty active with general blogging chat.
20:07:00 <ais523> impomatic: politics everywhere tends to be bad
20:07:11 <ehird> blogs are inherently very egotistical
20:07:21 <ehird> so it's not surprising that they're all arguing :)
20:07:26 <ais523> except games specifically based around politics
20:07:32 <ais523> where it can be enjoyable if nobody takes it seriously
20:07:41 <ais523> ehird: incidentally, has the hill been fixed yet?
20:07:43 <ais523> or is it still backwards?
20:08:40 <ehird> impomatic: so wait this forum for bloggers deliberately censors these words for no reason?
20:08:47 <ehird> i'd expect that more on a forum about random pointless stuff
20:11:06 <impomatic> ehird: it censors them because Graham who runs the forum doesn't want anyone to mention the forum / blog of the guys he doesn't like
20:11:25 <ehird> what a terribly bruteforce way of doing that
20:13:07 <impomatic> The unfortunate side effect is quite a few posts have censored words because they contain bat. It's pointless.
20:13:45 <impomatic> They even banned someone for tweeting something a negative comment!
20:14:04 <ais523> has the owner of the blog never heard of the Streisand effect?
20:14:16 <ais523> I'm sure it wouldn't take too much searching to figure out what he was trying to censor
20:14:24 <ais523> and the words being censored would be noticed pretty quickly
20:14:26 <ehird> the Corsair (company that makes RAM/PSUs etc) forums censor the URLs and names of competing companies, so you go around seeing people saying loads of asterisks and stuff while trying to explain their previous hardware, what corsair components they replaced them with, the problems, etc
20:14:31 <ehird> it's crazy ridiculous
20:14:36 <ehird> ais523: forum, not blog
20:14:53 <ais523> also, what about people using leet-speak to get around the filters?
20:14:57 <ais523> it was invented for that purpose, after all
20:15:10 <ehird> 1337speak predates filters, I'm pretty sure
20:15:12 <ais523> not sure, but I think so
20:15:58 <impomatic> http://programminghumor.blogspot.com/2009/05/introducing-nazicard.html
20:16:17 <Taejo> "Leet originated within bulletin board systems in the 1980s,[1][2] where having "elite" status on a BBS allowed a user access to file folders, games, and special chat rooms. One theory is that it was developed to defeat text filters created by BBS or Internet Relay Chat system operators for message boards to discourage the discussion of forbidden topics, like cracking and hacking.[1] However, creative misspellings and ASCII-
20:16:17 <Taejo> art-derived words were also a way to attempt to indicate one was knowledgeable about the culture of computer users."
20:17:04 <ehird> "All members are now required to express their love of Nazicard."
20:17:14 <ehird> "He loved Nazicard."
20:21:08 <ehird> impomatic: since you're a corewar/bfjoust person... any idea how a Haskell warring-programs game would work? I can't think of a way to harness the purely-functionality :-P
20:24:49 <impomatic> I haven't got much experience with funtional programming. There was a comment asking about a Haskell programming game wasn't there?
20:25:37 <impomatic> There a paper about a game called Struggle, not sure how well that would work.
20:26:44 <ehird> Perhaps something like:
20:26:56 <ehird> let ares = proga bres; bres = progb ares
20:27:03 <ehird> Then they both get the results of each other, lazily evaluated
20:27:49 <impomatic> Would this work? http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/Papers/strugman.ps.gz
20:28:59 <ehird> impomatic: No. "rplaca and rplacd"
20:29:11 <ehird> Not purely functional; ordered, destructing operations.
20:32:51 <ais523> even impurely functional would give more of a clue about how purely functional would work
20:33:00 <ais523> although I do have an idea for how to do a purely functional programming game
20:33:08 <ehird> impurely functional is just restricted imperative
20:33:09 <ais523> although it wouldn't work much like corewar or BF Joust
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20:33:24 <ais523> the idea is, each program has code, and data
20:33:36 <ais523> and it has to try to recognise its data, as opposed to data produced by the opposing program
20:33:48 <ais523> each program can inspect a sample of its opponent's data
20:34:03 <ais523> it's opponent's "stock" data, as it were
20:34:17 <ais523> and has to create a modified version that will fool its opponent, but that it itself recognises as its own
20:34:22 <ais523> as well as recognising its own stock data
20:34:44 <ais523> so the idea would be to try to sneak contraband data past the opponent, whilst being able to recognise it yourself
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20:35:29 <ais523> (comparing functions is an uncomputable task, I'd imagine this for a lang something like Lazy Bird where everything is a function, so the problem is, in the absence of an ability to compare functions, how do you probe them to see what they do?)
20:36:02 <ais523> I'm not quite sure how to handle infinite loops; maybe timing out loses you points, so you could try to create killer packets that would send your opponent into a loop, but not you
20:36:05 <ais523> but that might be too easy
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20:58:38 <coppro> GregorR: you haven't fixed bfjoust yet? :(
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23:13:32 <oerjan> ^ul ((hi ehird )S:^):^
23:13:33 <fungot> hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird hi ehird ...too much output!
23:13:43 <ehird> ^ul ((hi oerjan )S:^):^
23:13:44 <fungot> hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi oerjan hi o ...too much output!
23:14:46 <ehird> dude you ruined it
23:15:09 <oerjan> no you ruined it, you cut off my name
23:15:40 <fungot> ehird: he fixed it a bit, but then i need to do
23:21:02 <kerlo> [0,1,0,1,1,1,[1,0,[0,1]],[1,2,1]]
23:21:23 <kerlo> How you write the number 1,000,000 when you don't really care whether people understand you or not.
23:21:38 <oerjan> kerlo: seen the recent /// developments?
23:21:54 <kerlo> oerjan: I've seen that non-trivial infinite loop that makes it probably TC.
23:22:06 <ehird> kerlo: e implemented BCT.
23:22:10 <ehird> Thus proving it TC.
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23:24:55 <oerjan> kerlo: also, characters other than / and \ really _are_ unnecessary :)
23:26:39 <oerjan> also, how the heck is that 1,000,000
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23:56:59 <pikhq> Delicious, delicious waffles.
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23:59:43 <kerlo> oerjan: the same way that 1,000,001 is [1,2,1,2,2,2,[0,1,0],[0,0,2]].