←2009-06-27 2009-06-28 2009-06-29→ ↑2009 ↑all
00:01:05 <ehird> oh yeah?
00:01:09 <ehird> well your OWL is an awesome owl
00:01:18 <ehird> FUCKING ICE BURN!
00:02:52 <augur> haha.
00:04:37 <SimonRC> I suppose monads are a pattern that was spotted. You can think up these really abstract operators and laws that can apply to 1-argument types, then it turns out that implementations of these operators for many concrete types turn out to be interesting operations, so if you can define something in terms of general monads rather than specific ones, they sometimes come out as handy things in several monads.
00:04:44 <SimonRC> but
00:04:56 <SimonRC> the general concept is really abstract
00:05:11 <augur> ok. still conveys nothing. :)
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00:05:27 <ehird> SimonRC: Monads were stolen from category theory, I think added to Haskell after people had used them manually for like the list monad and people noticed the continuation IO interface could be represented as it.
00:05:27 <ehird> :P
00:05:55 <SimonRC> continuation IO is closely realted, yeah
00:06:23 <SimonRC> I am surprised none of ther other pure languages anyone has every heard of have used continuation IO
00:06:35 * oerjan had the impression IO came sort of first, but he hasn't read Moggi's work
00:07:33 <ehird> SimonRC: cuz its awkward to type.
00:07:58 <oerjan> basically iiuc Moggi discovered functional languages with side effects could be treated as mathematical functions if the side effects were encapsulated in a monad
00:08:07 <SimonRC> but do-notation could have been con-notation instead
00:08:44 <ehird> SimonRC: hmm, that would be interesting
00:08:45 <oerjan> oh the first version of haskell used continuation IO
00:08:49 <ehird> oerjan: NO
00:08:49 <ehird> wrong
00:08:51 <ehird> it used stream IO
00:08:56 <SimonRC> yuk
00:08:57 <oerjan> but on top of stream IO
00:08:59 <ehird> people wrapped this into continuation IO because stream IO was fucking terrible
00:09:08 <oerjan> yes, but both were included
00:09:29 <ehird> SimonRC: so "con a; b; x <- c; d" → "a (\_ -> b (\_ -> c (\x -> d)))"?
00:09:32 <ehird> that could be interesting.
00:09:52 <SimonRC> yeah
00:10:04 <ehird> SimonRC: the other Io did basically that but uglier.
00:10:05 <SimonRC> well, it's basically what let does
00:10:19 <ehird> not really
00:10:22 <SimonRC> or closely related
00:10:23 <ehird> let doesn't give a continuation :P
00:10:54 <SimonRC> and you can define IO in terms of continuations, I expect
00:11:02 <oerjan> io was a; b; c -> x; d iirc
00:11:05 <ehird> SimonRC: of course you can
00:11:14 <oerjan> or very close to it
00:11:24 <ehird> SimonRC: data IO a = GetChar (Char -> a) | PutStr String (() -> a)
00:11:27 <ehird> etc
00:11:37 <ehird> then fooBar = FooBar for all the IO functions.
00:11:40 <SimonRC> heck, the transformation could be done in a lisp macros without much trouble
00:11:41 <ehird> then just tree-walk as usual.
00:11:46 <oerjan> also in haskell that is a $ \_ -> b $ \_ -> c $ \x -> d
00:11:47 <ehird> SimonRC: yeah it'd be trivial
00:11:52 <ehird> this con is looking mighty appealin'
00:11:55 <oerjan> one of the reasons $ was included i think
00:12:20 <SimonRC> oerjan: apart from being a nice complement to ordinary application
00:14:21 <oerjan> ehird: iiuc writing IO a properly type safely as a data type of options requires GADTs which were not invented then
00:14:29 <SimonRC> It manages to make a good job of being the floor-wax of left-associativity and the dessert topping of a low-priority operator
00:14:32 <ehird> oerjan: naww
00:15:02 <ehird> oerjan: do a; b; x <- c; d
00:15:03 <SimonRC> I thought that the various io functions could just be compiler magic functions
00:15:04 <ehird>
00:15:05 <oerjan> hm
00:15:06 <ehird> er
00:15:12 <ehird> do x <- getChar; putChar x; getChar
00:15:12 <SimonRC> like the default implementation of (+) etc
00:15:12 <ehird>
00:15:31 <ehird> oerjan: replace -> a with -> IO a
00:15:32 <ehird> and
00:15:37 <ehird> GetChar (\x -> PutChar x (\_ -> GetChar (\x -> return x)))
00:15:38 <ehird> or sth
00:15:39 <ehird> i dunno
00:15:45 <oerjan> ehird: i was about to note that
00:16:04 <pikhq> I highly doubt that you meant GetChar.
00:16:32 <oerjan> ehird: ok it works without GADTs provided none of the IO functions are polymorphic
00:16:33 <ehird> pikhq: please see the above discusison
00:16:35 <ehird> i very much meant it
00:16:39 <ehird> oerjan: are any?
00:16:45 <oerjan> maybe not
00:16:46 <pikhq> Also, getChar >>= \x -> putChar x \_ -> getChar >>= \x -> return x
00:16:53 <ehird> pikhq: fail
00:16:54 <pikhq> ... Oh. Tha.
00:16:57 <ehird> please read the context before :P
00:17:01 <oerjan> well print but that can be defined using putStrLn
00:17:07 <ehird> oerjan: yeah
00:17:07 <pikhq> I see context now.
00:18:06 <pikhq> And yes, continuation and stream IO seem like crap.
00:18:15 <oerjan> it is likely none were originally since the same (obviously?) applies to defining stream IO
00:18:56 <oerjan> oh, the ffi probably qualifies
00:19:05 <ehird> oerjan: the ffi is magical anyway
00:19:21 <ehird> pikhq: continuation io is okay, it's basically monadic io
00:19:36 <oerjan> yes, but you could probably include it in a GADT type
00:20:37 <pikhq> Well, continuation IO is crap only because monadic IO is strictly better.
00:20:41 <ehird> oerjan: but there are infinite ffi functions...
00:20:44 <ehird> pikhq: it is?
00:20:44 <pikhq> Stream IO is eeew.
00:20:48 <ehird> it's strictly equivalent, sir.
00:20:54 <oerjan> ehird: ok you need _some_ magic
00:21:28 <pikhq> ehird: But monadic IO lets you confuse noobs by using monad operators!
00:21:34 <ehird> oerjan: we can just dictate that ffi shit is of a certain type qed so there :)
00:22:50 <oerjan> data IO a = IO (a -> IOTask) -> IOTask
00:23:08 <ehird> oerjan: you can't do that with "con" notation though
00:23:13 <ehird> since it isn't regular cps
00:23:19 <ehird> well the fooBar functions could emulate it i guess
00:23:24 <ehird> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3550/3648775731_eafc2c9a10_b.jpg ← wow, the iphone 3g s has a nice camera
00:23:32 <ehird> bit more grainy at full size but meh
00:24:14 <bsmntbombdood> your face has nice camera
00:24:22 <SimonRC> with continuations: newtype IO a = IO ((a -> Thingy) -> Thingy), since none of those functions "really" return
00:24:25 <oerjan> there is one difference with continuation IO rather than ordinary IO: continuation IO would automatically give you the power of callCC i think
00:24:34 <oerjan> s/ordinary/monadic/
00:24:46 <ehird> SimonRC: i much prefer my definitions.
00:24:55 <ehird> oerjan: yeah, that's true
00:24:59 <ehird> con notation lets you do fun continuation shit
00:25:02 <SimonRC> ah, call/cc there was a thing I struggled with
00:25:03 <ehird> con needs a nicer name though
00:25:11 <ehird> call/cc took me a while
00:25:13 <Gracenotes> yyyyyeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
00:25:14 <ehird> SimonRC: you invented con; what should we call it?
00:25:14 <SimonRC> well, not much, but it was another mind-stretching thing
00:25:18 <SimonRC> con
00:25:31 <ehird> but "con" isn't pleasing to put all over your code :p
00:25:32 <SimonRC> continuationChain?
00:25:35 <ehird> it's too implementation detaily
00:25:37 <SimonRC> chain?
00:25:42 <Gracenotes> call with current continuation
00:25:42 <ehird> SimonRC: maybe chain or pass
00:25:48 <Gracenotes> O_O
00:25:50 <Gracenotes> I just snoc'd your kitten
00:25:57 <ehird> hot
00:26:16 <SimonRC> I figured out how someone could murder me with a kitten
00:26:30 <oerjan> ehird: you know that do can be used for con by simply wrapping with Cont monad, right? :D
00:26:36 <oerjan> (or ContT)
00:26:51 <SimonRC> you tie me up in a non-dangerous way, cover over my mouth with tape, and put a kitten in close proximity...
00:27:00 <SimonRC> my nose blocks up and I suffocate
00:27:10 <ehird> oerjan: but that's not interesting from a language designer's perspective
00:27:14 <SimonRC> and you can claim you were only trying to kidnap me not kill me
00:27:41 <oerjan> ehird: you can also do the reverse of course, i saw a blog post on that once...
00:27:56 <ehird> yes
00:27:58 <ehird> sigfpe wrote it
00:28:05 <ehird> but I'm interested in alternatives to monads.
00:28:15 <ehird> with continuations, you can do iiiiiinteresting stuff
00:28:20 <pikhq> Trivial. Fuck purity.
00:28:21 <ehird> like defining a list as its (>>=)
00:28:29 <ehird> @src [] (>>=)
00:28:30 <lambdabot> xs >>= f = concatMap f xs
00:28:36 <ehird> @src concatMap
00:28:36 <lambdabot> concatMap f = foldr ((++) . f) []
00:28:38 <ehird> hmm
00:28:41 <ehird> can concatMap work as fold?
00:28:42 <ehird> I don't think so
00:28:55 <oerjan> nah
00:28:56 <SimonRC> no
00:28:59 <ehird> darn
00:29:02 <ehird> hmm
00:29:06 <ehird> can a fold obey the monad laws?
00:29:19 <SimonRC> the list monad is for nondeterminism
00:29:22 <Gracenotes> wha
00:29:34 <oerjan> the list monad is like many worlds alternatives that cannot interact...
00:29:46 <ehird> instance Monad Quantum
00:30:07 <Gracenotes> unfortunately a set monad is not so possible :( although in many cases it would be useful for nondeterminism
00:30:20 <oerjan> i recall reading that quantum computation did not fit nicely into a monad
00:30:25 <Gracenotes> although in some of those cases, not quite necessary
00:30:29 <pikhq> Alternately, it can be used for state, by having a single value in the list. (this is not a good idea.)
00:30:30 <Gracenotes> maybe if you had an OrdMonad though
00:30:56 <ehird> which fold can you implement the other with?
00:31:22 <oerjan> foldr
00:31:29 <ehird> :t foldr
00:31:30 <lambdabot> forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b
00:31:53 <ehird> type List a = List (forall b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> b)
00:31:53 <oerjan> both ways if you only have finite lists, though
00:32:02 <SimonRC> foldr is structural recursion on lists
00:32:04 <ehird> ↑ wonder how this fits in with CPS
00:32:08 <ehird> chain list; foo
00:32:09 <ehird>
00:32:16 <ehird> list (\_ -> foo)
00:32:16 <ehird> hmm
00:32:19 <SimonRC> the first two arguments are case-analysis on lists
00:32:34 <ehird> not rly useful
00:32:55 <oerjan> ehird: i am not sure \_ -> is elegant there, why not just drop it (Io does)
00:33:08 <oerjan> and Io allows multi-argument continuations
00:33:12 <ehird> oerjan: so that both (chain x; y) and (chain foo <- x; y) works
00:33:15 <ehird> *work
00:33:21 <ehird> "x" is just "_ <- x"
00:33:22 <SimonRC> oerjan: I thought that >> was defined in terms of >>= in that manner
00:33:29 <ehird> i.e. "run x, with a continuation that ignores the result"
00:33:30 <oerjan> well yes
00:33:36 <ehird> oerjan: so eg
00:33:48 <ehird> do getChar; getChar; putStrLn "I ignored you there!"
00:33:50 <ehird> should work
00:33:54 <ehird> s/do/chain/
00:34:27 <oerjan> oh well
00:42:49 <oerjan> darn iwc poll
00:43:46 <oerjan> hm there was this baseball match my advisor dragged me to in 1996 when we were in the US
00:43:57 <AnMaster> <oerjan> darn iwc poll <-- "never"
00:44:23 <AnMaster> (for me that is)
00:44:24 <oerjan> hm, did that count? it was probably a college match
00:44:35 <oerjan> that's not professional is it?
00:44:56 <AnMaster> probably not
00:45:05 <oerjan> it is quite possible "never" is the correct answer
00:45:39 <oerjan> i don't think i've ever been to a match of the local football club, but i might have repressed it
00:45:49 <oerjan> despite them being the best club in norway
00:47:56 * oerjan puts "never"
00:48:55 <oerjan> heh i was with the majority on the previous poll, i see :D
00:49:02 <Asztal> IWC?
00:49:14 <oerjan> http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/
00:49:36 <SimonRC> anyone here read OOTS?
00:49:39 <Asztal> I wonder if working at a football club counts :)
00:49:45 <SimonRC> Just a *bit* dramatic lately
00:49:45 <oerjan> not any longer
00:49:55 <SimonRC> oerjan: you stopped?
00:50:11 <FireFly> I do
00:50:18 <pikhq> I do.
00:50:53 <oerjan> it got a bit too dark for my tastes
00:52:37 <SimonRC> the whole V-gets-slightly-eviller-with-power thing?
00:52:47 <oerjan> yeah
00:53:15 <SimonRC> how can any storyline with that much Xykon dialogue in it be dark? ;-)
00:53:45 <oerjan> i didn't notice any Xykon at that point
00:54:12 <oerjan> also when xykon is evil it's funny
00:54:28 <oerjan> *acts
00:54:36 <oerjan> obviously, he always _is_ evil
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01:10:20 <SimonRC> oerjan: um, did you read the bit with the Ancient Black Dragon?
01:10:57 <oerjan> there was a black dragon, don't recall how ancient it was
01:11:01 <oerjan> *she
01:11:35 <SimonRC> ah, yeah
01:12:31 <SimonRC> oerjan: well, assuming that it isn't as far back as the time V got turned into a lizard, ...
01:12:39 <SimonRC> things get exciting from there, and V gets pleanty of bashing over the head with Character Development
01:13:00 <SimonRC> realising that there is more to being powerful than one's spell level(s)
01:13:01 <oerjan> and the point where V killed her entire family is the point i stopped
01:13:13 <SimonRC> oerjan: uh, ok
01:13:42 <SimonRC> that's about the most nast thing V does
01:13:54 <SimonRC> the rest is just arrogant and foolish
01:13:58 <SimonRC> but does a bit of good
01:15:25 <oerjan> ic
01:16:22 <SimonRC> oh, yeah, and <spoiler>, finally! <spoiler>
01:16:48 <SimonRC> leaving page 666 of a nice end-of-book shot, maybe
01:16:53 <SimonRC> *for
01:49:11 <comex_> python 3.1
01:49:12 <comex_> The re.sub(), re.subn() and re.split() functions now accept a flags parameter.
01:49:18 <comex_> FINALLY
01:51:20 <comex_> on the other hand
01:51:22 <comex_> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3116/
01:51:24 <comex_> ewwwwjava
01:52:55 * SimonRC goes to bed
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03:43:24 <Gracenotes> anyone do anything esoteric lately
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08:30:36 <augur> ehird
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11:50:41 <AnMaster> I was working on efunge again today. And I had an err... interesting idea. Some trivial changes to efunge could make it work like server/client... Basically: start an efunge-server (could listen on (for example) some tcp port, an unix socket file, distributed erlang nodes, ...). Then for each befunge program you want to run: ./efunge --server tcp:127.0.0.1:6543 mybefungeprogram.b98
11:51:03 <AnMaster> this could be useful for implementing some sort of "thin befunge client"
11:51:05 <AnMaster> :D
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11:52:41 <AnMaster> ais523, hi
11:52:50 <AnMaster> ais523, I just invented "Thin Befunge Clients"
11:57:02 <ais523> AnMaster: oh?
11:57:07 <AnMaster> yes
11:57:09 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> I was working on efunge again today. And I had an err... interesting idea. Some trivial changes to efunge could make it work like server/client... Basically: start an efunge-server (could listen on (for example) some tcp port, an unix socket file, distributed erlang nodes, ...). Then for each befunge program you want to run: ./efunge --server tcp:127.0.0.1:6543 mybefungeprogram.b98
11:57:09 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> this could be useful for implementing some sort of "thin befunge client"
11:59:40 <AnMaster> Would probably need some sort of resource limit per VBM (Virtual Befunge Machine), such as max number of elements in the funge space, and max stack/stack-stack sizes.
12:04:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/mycology-output/y/expected.txt says "Infinite loop there, constantly outputting that about the environment variables."
12:04:16 <AnMaster> that makes no sense
12:13:35 <AnMaster> ais523, so what do you think of this "thin befunge client" concept? ;)
12:13:47 <ais523> I don't see why there's anything particularly special about it
12:13:51 <ais523> it's just another combination of concepts
12:13:55 <AnMaster> true
12:14:04 <ais523> just like, say, an Unlambda package repository
12:14:11 <AnMaster> ais523, has anyone done that?
12:14:16 <ais523> yes, well tried to
12:14:21 <ais523> I don't think it ever really got started, though
12:14:28 <AnMaster> oh? when was that?
12:15:10 <AnMaster> ais523, nice idea though.
13:10:44 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Fixed, thanks.
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13:21:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/mycology-output/input_fp-strn/expected.txt <-- some newlines missing?
13:22:08 <AnMaster> (or maybe just some CRLF/LF mixup?)
13:23:28 <Deewiant> No, I don't think any are missing there?
13:23:46 <Deewiant> Since the input is from echo
13:24:06 <Deewiant> Not the keyboard, so there's no enter being pressed after "input:"
13:24:43 <ais523> echo gives newlines, though
13:24:51 <ais523> some versions let you tell it not to, though
13:25:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no newline between the into that STRN was loaded and that it is waiting for input?
13:25:42 <Deewiant> Yes, but if you say echo "foobar" it won't put a newline between foo and bar unless it's buggy.
13:26:03 <Deewiant> Hmm, not sure
13:26:13 <AnMaster> hm ok it is "Loaded STRN: testing I. Please input:"
13:26:15 <ais523> I'd like to see a version of echo that did put a newline between foo and bar
13:26:19 <ais523> that would be a very implausible bug
13:26:23 <AnMaster> just inconsistent with every other fingerprint test.
13:26:44 <AnMaster> except BASE in user...
13:26:45 <AnMaster> heh
13:27:09 <Deewiant> Yeah, it's consistent with itself.
13:27:20 <Deewiant> And it is correct.
13:27:23 <AnMaster> :D
13:43:23 <AnMaster> hm I think I just found a problem with diff.... Not sure though... Two things:
13:43:29 <AnMaster> 1) The file header is:
13:43:34 <AnMaster> --- oldfile.txt
13:43:38 <AnMaster> +++ newfile.txt
13:43:59 <AnMaster> (usually (always?) same filename, but maybe different path)
13:44:08 <AnMaster> removed lines are:
13:44:12 <AnMaster> -stuff on line
13:44:23 <AnMaster> can you remove a line that starts with two -
13:44:31 <AnMaster> (and a space)
13:44:42 <AnMaster> it seems it would be possible to confuse it with the file header thingy.
13:45:09 <AnMaster> I probably missed something, because if this was a real issue surely someone would have spotted it early on...
13:46:30 <fizzie> Well, it's at least possible to notice it's not the real header, as it can't have that @@-starting block-location thing immediately after it.
13:47:18 <fizzie> Though some tool somewhere will undoubtedly be confused by it.
13:48:06 <AnMaster> fizzie, wait, that @@ is the key to it
13:48:15 <AnMaster> example:
13:48:17 <AnMaster> @@ -250,7 +250,7 @@
13:48:17 <lambdabot> -250,7 +250,7
13:48:20 <AnMaster> ...?
13:48:23 <AnMaster> anyway.
13:48:31 <AnMaster> the 7 is the length of the block
13:48:37 <ais523> the @@ says where in the file; the --- +++ says which file
13:48:39 <AnMaster> the first is the length before, the second the length after
13:49:07 <AnMaster> ais523, you could end up with --- inside a @@ block. But I guess it isn't possible to confuse them, since @@ has the block length
13:49:10 <ais523> yep
13:49:36 <ais523> unidiffs are designed for human reading
13:49:43 <ais523> diffs designed for patching used to be written as ed scripts
13:49:47 <ais523> before patch was invented
13:49:49 <fizzie> Oh, you're underestimating the power of people to write code that can get confused.
13:50:07 <ais523> fizzie: the format works, that doesn't mean patchers won't get confused
13:50:11 <fizzie> I'm sure there exists at least one tool that'll be confused by a header-like thing in the middle of a block.
13:50:14 <ais523> but patch was originally invented by Larry Wall, IIRC
13:50:50 <fizzie> 1984-11-09 Larry Wall <sdcrdcf!lwall>
13:50:51 <fizzie> * patch.c: Initial revision
13:50:57 <AnMaster> hm
13:51:07 <ais523> wow at that email address
13:51:16 <ais523> not the format of the address, but 'sdcrdcf'
13:51:28 <AnMaster> ais523, most patches I applied were unidiffs
13:51:31 <AnMaster> if not all
13:51:43 <ais523> AnMaster: those are recent, though
13:51:46 <AnMaster> oh you mean *where*
13:51:47 <ais523> unidiffs didn't exist in 1984
13:51:48 <AnMaster> were*
13:51:52 <AnMaster> heh
13:52:18 <fizzie> It's only in the "Mon Jan 7 06:25:11 1991" entry where patch gets the ability to understand +++: "* pch.c (intuit_diff_type): Recognize `+++' in diff headers, for unified diff format. From unidiff patch 1."
13:52:34 <AnMaster> that recent? heh
13:56:15 * AnMaster wonders how people managed before rsync was written.
14:15:28 <Deewiant> scp.
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15:09:56 <Gracenotes> hey, I use scp all the time x.x
15:10:11 <ais523> so does rsync
15:58:33 -!- Pthingg has joined.
16:10:55 -!- Pthing has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:13:06 <GregorR> <Gracenotes> hey, I use scp all the time x.x
16:13:06 <GregorR> <ais523> so does rsync
16:13:07 <GregorR> lawl
16:13:31 <Gracenotes> thank you, from all those with a scrollback buffer of 4 lines
16:13:45 <GregorR> My scrollback is 1 line.
16:13:53 <GregorR> I now no longer see what you just wrote.
16:13:54 <ais523> wow, that's a small scrollback
16:14:00 <GregorR> Yeah, it sucks.
16:14:02 <ais523> mine's about 30 lines without scrolling
16:14:08 <ais523> so I have 30 lines of back, I suppose
16:14:17 <ais523> much more in actual scrollback
16:14:33 <Gracenotes> mine is in a GUI so it's 500 total, but ~30 lines visible
16:14:52 <ais523> yep, same here
16:17:30 <GregorR> Hey, I just came back, I know ais523 said "yep, same here", but that's all I've got.
16:21:01 <AnMaster> theory: Non-esoteric languages have (in general) more pitfalls for the beginner than most esoteric languages.
16:22:05 <AnMaster> Why? For esoteric languages the pitfalls tends to be intentional and thus documented.
16:22:33 <AnMaster> (or at least making "sense" for a given value of "sense" in the context of the language)
16:26:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, scp isn't very useful when you are syncing two large directory trees, when one is out-of-date. Either you would need to scp all of it, or manually figure out what files need to be copied.
16:27:17 <AnMaster> which was a few hundred in different directories in this case, out of several thousands.
16:27:50 <AnMaster> (total size of tree is ~1.5 GB, rsync said 48.3 MB was transferred)
16:29:08 <AnMaster> ais523, anyway rsync doesn't use scp...
16:29:15 <ais523> AnMaster: it can do
16:29:17 <AnMaster> ais523, rsync over ssh use rsync.
16:29:22 <AnMaster> (it was what I used)
16:29:49 <AnMaster> that basically starts a copy of rsync on the other side and then talks with it using some binary protocol
16:29:49 <GregorR> rsync is pretty hawt, but yeah, it uses the rsync protocol over SSH.
16:30:20 <GregorR> It's the same protocol that rsyncd would use if anybody ever used rsyncd.
16:36:42 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
16:37:41 <AnMaster> GregorR, I actually used it
16:38:03 <AnMaster> flightgear scenery used to be distributed that way
16:38:15 <AnMaster> so you could fetch as you needed to render it
16:38:46 -!- linf has joined.
16:39:05 <AnMaster> GregorR, and I used to run a mirror for it
16:40:21 <linf> holla i from moon :)
16:40:34 <ais523> hi
16:40:59 <linf> i all green and funny
16:41:02 <linf> :)
16:41:27 <ais523> I didn't realise there was life on the moon...
16:42:20 <linf> life
16:42:21 <pikhq> Nor did I.
16:42:40 <pikhq> Apparently the Russians sent a man there when we weren't looking? :P
16:42:41 <linf> life of the moon is dancing
16:42:46 <linf> :-D
16:45:26 <GregorR> Maaaan, the Russians not only got to the moon, but got broadband internet to the moon.
16:45:32 <GregorR> Obama, I blame you for this!
16:46:07 <linf> http://theorionconspiracy.com - top sicret
16:46:10 <ais523> hey, doesn't Mars have broadband?
16:46:24 <ais523> it has a satellite internet network
16:46:32 <ais523> so landers, etc, can communicate stuff back more easily
16:48:28 <AnMaster> err, what has all this got to do with esoteric programming languages? Just wondering..
16:48:34 <linf> GregorR, obama? You have allowed Bush to kill as many of its citizens, and then another, and chose Obama.
16:48:34 <linf> You do not feel sorry for our nation?
16:50:37 -!- GregorR has set topic: This is why the catch-phrase "esoteric programming languages" MUST BE IN THE TOPIC AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
16:52:25 -!- pikhq has set topic: Dan ſlowed ſlightly as his ears. Alſo, eſoteric programming languages. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
16:53:50 -!- linf has left (?).
16:53:57 <GregorR> We win!
16:56:20 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
16:56:40 * ais523 preferred GregorR's topic
16:57:05 -!- GregorR has set topic: This is why the catch-phrase "esoteric programming languages" MUST BE IN THE TOPIC AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
16:58:16 -!- pikhq has set topic: Þis is why þe catch-phrase “This is why the catch-phrase ‘esoteric programming language’ MUST BE IN THE TOPIC AT ALL TIMES” MUST BE IN ÞE TOPIC AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
16:58:28 -!- pikhq has set topic: Þis is why þe catch-phrase “This is why the catch-phrase ‘esoteric programming languages’ MUST BE IN THE TOPIC AT ALL TIMES” MUST BE IN ÞE TOPIC AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
16:58:54 -!- AnMaster has joined.
17:00:16 <AnMaster> err...
17:00:18 <AnMaster> * linf (n=nikita@93-81-24-101.broadband.corbina.ru) has left #esoteric
17:00:20 <AnMaster> <GregorR> We win!
17:00:22 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> pikhq, I suggest a non mangled variant of that, we can't know those nutcases joining are using UTF-8, nor know what those symbols mean
17:00:25 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> non-mangled*
17:00:27 <AnMaster> not sure if that bit I said got through
17:00:41 <AnMaster> nor any idea if anyone responded to it
17:00:48 <GregorR> It didn't go through.
17:00:52 <pikhq> 9~Missed it.
17:02:22 <AnMaster> laaaag (due to freenode's sucky rate limiting + bouncer still joining channels)
17:07:13 <AnMaster> hello?
17:08:06 <pikhq> Why are you pinging *me*?
17:08:33 <pikhq> I've got more lag than a network connection by carrier sloth.
17:09:29 <AnMaster> * Ping reply from pikhq: 440.88 second(s)
17:09:45 <AnMaster> urgh
17:09:53 <AnMaster> oh and * Ping reply from GregorR: 448.12 second(s)
17:10:15 <pikhq> ... You have more lag than I do.
17:10:24 <GregorR> I WIN
17:10:35 <pikhq> I HAVE A FREAKING SATELLITE DISH FOR MY NETWORK CONNECTION.
17:10:47 <GregorR> Light is fast?
17:11:12 <pikhq> Yes, but going to orbit and back takes time.
17:11:37 <GregorR> New EgoBot feature (if I didn't break it):
17:11:53 -!- GregorR has set topic: Some unrelated shtuff | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:12:23 <GregorR> Denied! Hrumph :P
17:12:48 <GregorR> It was supposed to change the topic to include "esoteric programming languages" >_>
17:14:09 <AnMaster> ok it is better now
17:14:11 <AnMaster> I think
17:15:02 <AnMaster> * Ping reply from pikhq: 2.29 second(s)
17:15:02 <AnMaster> * Ping reply from GregorR: 1.18 second(s)
17:15:05 <AnMaster> yeah much better
17:15:37 -!- AnMaster has set topic: This is why the catch-phrase ‘esoteric programming languages’ MUST BE IN THE TOPIC AT ALL TIMES | Some unrelated shtuff | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:16:32 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:17:00 <AnMaster> hi oerjan
17:17:03 * oerjan wonders what happened before that topic
17:17:05 <oerjan> hi AnMaster
17:17:55 <AnMaster> oerjan, some crazy person, that is what happened
17:18:29 <ais523> oerjan: see recent logs
17:18:44 <GregorR> HE WAS A MOON MAN
17:18:47 <GregorR> A moon man from Russia
17:19:23 <AnMaster> GregorR, make egobot able to do it
17:19:28 * oerjan has already browsed enough to tell there were no more crazy persons than usual
17:20:28 <GregorR> AnMaster: I'm trying, it's borkled.
17:20:48 <GregorR> The command to change a topic is just TOPIC #channel :topic , right?
17:20:57 <oerjan> i think so
17:21:11 -!- CESSMASTER has joined.
17:22:08 <pikhq> Yeah...
17:22:54 <AnMaster> GregorR, pretty sure yes
17:23:01 <AnMaster> GregorR, what does the server reply?
17:23:03 <GregorR> Yeah, IRC spec says so ...
17:23:06 <GregorR> I can't tell.
17:23:14 <GregorR> EgoBot's output goes nowhere.
17:23:16 <AnMaster> GregorR, raw log from egobot?
17:23:21 <GregorR> EgoBot's output goes nowhere.
17:23:25 <AnMaster> ok.... might be a good idea to add that then
17:23:30 <GregorR> I disagree.
17:23:37 <AnMaster> oh?
17:23:56 <AnMaster> possibly as a option, output it only while you are debugging things
17:24:07 <GregorR> This is one very rare circumstance when it's useful. In all other circumstances it's an annoying large file that sits on my hard disk and takes up space that's redundant with tunes.org
17:24:08 <AnMaster> add some admin command to turn it on/off
17:24:09 <GregorR> Oh, the option is there.
17:24:13 <GregorR> But I'd have to restart EgoBot.
17:24:18 <AnMaster> GregorR, at runtime I meant....
17:24:24 <AnMaster> GregorR, also, rotate the log?
17:24:50 <GregorR> You seem to think EgoBot is about a bazillion times more complex than it is. The ability to support all this would EASILY triple the amount of code in the C part.
17:24:51 <AnMaster> start writing at the start again once it reaches a set limit
17:25:07 <AnMaster> Gracenotes, you could use the cron + logrotate + SIGHUP to do it
17:25:24 <AnMaster> SIGHUP handling would be like... uh... a few lines?
17:25:40 <AnMaster> to close the current logfile then open the same filename again
17:26:18 <AnMaster> GregorR, if that would triple the size, that is one extremely short C program
17:26:19 <GregorR> Long story short: This ain't happening. Too bad.
17:26:20 <AnMaster> ...
17:28:09 -!- Judofyr_ has joined.
17:28:12 -!- GregorR has set topic: Hey EgoBot, fooooooo.
17:28:12 -!- EgoBot has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:28:29 -!- AnMaster has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES | aa http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:28:33 -!- AnMaster has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES.
17:28:39 <AnMaster> hm
17:28:49 <AnMaster> GregorR, why didn't it add back that link?
17:28:56 -!- AnMaster has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:29:06 <GregorR> It only checks for "esoteric programming languages"
17:29:20 -!- ehird has left (?).
17:29:24 -!- ehird has joined.
17:29:28 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
17:30:13 <AnMaster> hm
17:30:32 -!- AnMaster has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric progrsamming languages" AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:30:45 <AnMaster> GregorR, either it is slow, or it doesn't work
17:31:04 -!- AnMaster has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esotearic progrsamming languages" AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:31:06 <ehird> 00:16 SimonRC: oh, yeah, and <spoiler>, finally! <spoiler>
17:31:13 -!- AnMaster has set topic: ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:31:14 <GregorR> See, this is what I was running in to ... I thought it worked >_>
17:31:14 <ehird> everything after is a spoiler
17:31:17 <GregorR> OH, I know the issue!
17:31:20 <AnMaster> GregorR, definitely broken
17:31:26 <ehird> 07:30 augur: ehird
17:31:27 <ehird> augur.
17:31:31 <ais523> </spoiler></spoiler>
17:31:53 <ehird> 11:13 ais523: I don't see why there's anything particularly special about it
17:31:53 <ehird> 11:13 ais523: it's just another combination of concepts
17:31:55 <ehird> y'mean like all of AnMaster's "fun" ideas?
17:33:47 <ehird> 15:40 linf: i all green and funny
17:33:49 <ehird> i'm green too!
17:34:21 <ehird> 15:48 linf: You do not feel sorry for our nation?
17:34:29 <ehird> you can get broadband on the fucking moon
17:34:31 <ehird> why would we pity you
17:34:32 <augur> ehird
17:34:38 <augur> do you still have that golly file?
17:35:02 <ehird> 16:11 pikhq: Yes, but going to orbit and back takes time.
17:35:05 <ehird> Yes but light is fast.
17:35:24 <augur> light generally doesnt go into orbit around things
17:35:25 <pikhq> Yes, and so are electrons.
17:35:54 <Gracenotes> AnMaster: it is mostly incidentally uploading to my VPS to share
17:36:03 <pikhq> And electrons taking a shorter path than light are faster than light.
17:36:20 <augur> pikhq: light follows the geodesic.
17:36:20 <pikhq> augur: It goes up to a satellite in geosynchronous orbit, and then goes down.
17:36:25 <augur> and always travels at c.
17:36:30 <augur> electrons dont.
17:36:42 <augur> going up to a satellite in geosynch and back is not going into orbit
17:36:51 <augur> its going up to something thats in orbit, but its not going into orbit.
17:37:09 <Gracenotes> AnMaster: for example, I scp'd this piano composition of mine
17:37:14 <Gracenotes> http://67.223.225.106/project.ogg
17:37:19 <ehird> </spoiler> just in case
17:37:24 -!- Judofyr_ has changed nick to Judofyr.
17:37:26 <AnMaster> Gracenotes, right. I was backing up a tree from a server
17:37:28 <ehird> oh shit, ais523 already did that
17:37:33 <ehird> now the interwebs are invalid
17:37:40 <ehird> 17:34 augur: ehird
17:37:41 <ehird> 17:34 augur: do you still have that golly file?
17:37:42 <ehird> dunno.
17:37:44 <ehird> maybe.
17:37:46 <ehird> it's just a straight line man.
17:37:55 <augur> i know, but when i do that, i get something different
17:37:59 <augur> so i want YOURS to see what you did
17:38:08 <ehird> oh
17:38:11 <ais523> ehird: quick, check the logs; there may be a random &lt;spoiler&gt; tag back in them to match
17:38:11 <ehird> i didn't make it into a file
17:38:12 <ehird> ^_^
17:38:15 <ehird> i can redraw it though
17:38:22 <augur> please?
17:38:25 -!- GregorR has set topic: ALL TIMES.
17:38:26 <ehird> ais523: but i haven't mirrored them yet
17:38:31 <ais523> ah
17:38:34 <augur> i'll love you forever and ever
17:38:38 <GregorR> Damn you EgoBot >_<
17:38:41 <ais523> maybe you can fix the markup when you mirror
17:38:44 <ehird> augur: but seriously, just draw downwards with your inaccurate human hands and you'll get what I'm going to do :P
17:38:59 <augur> ehird, i'd rather you did it. ive tried and never got it
17:39:00 <ehird> GregorR: changing the topic automatically is obnoxious anyway.
17:39:02 -!- ais523 has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:39:03 <augur> but you seem to get it every time
17:40:21 <ehird> augur: well, the thing it generates isn't clear
17:40:26 <ehird> if you wait until it stops moving and squint
17:40:27 <AnMaster> GregorR, that debug output *could help* I guess?
17:40:29 <ehird> you can see the sierpinski
17:40:34 <ehird> but it doesn't generate it cleanly or anything
17:40:43 <GregorR> AnMaster: No, that's the thing, it's "working" perfectly, only not.
17:40:44 <augur> ehird: well, the one you showed me was a dual triangle above some randomosit
17:40:49 <augur> y
17:40:56 <augur> all im looking for is that.
17:41:00 <ehird> eh?
17:41:03 <ehird> i don't recall that
17:41:07 <augur> i do. ;)
17:42:02 <ehird> augur: gimme a link to the pic I gave you so I can confirm what it is you're talking about
17:42:47 <ehird> wow, the 17" macbook pro's resolution is 1920x1200
17:42:48 <augur> i dont have the link anymore :(
17:42:50 <ehird> i'd have expected 1680x1050
17:42:53 <ehird> augur: grep the logs!
17:43:01 <augur> pfft
17:43:08 <augur> like i know how to use grep
17:43:18 <ehird> grep -ir 'Case insensitive matching!!!!' .
17:43:26 <augur> shh
17:43:30 <ehird> whereby -i is case insensitive and -r is 'recursively scan directory, not file'
17:43:36 -!- oerjan has set topic: There is a phrase which the topic must contain AT ALL TIMES. Can you guess what it is? Yes, it is "esoteric programming languages"! | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:46:01 <AnMaster> GregorR, figured it out yet?
17:46:15 <ehird> anyway, it's fun when we get crazies
17:46:17 <AnMaster> there are two other ways to solve it
17:46:18 <ehird> they always get bored anyway
17:46:20 <AnMaster> 1) tcpdump
17:46:34 <AnMaster> 2) attach gdb to the running bot and trace through it
17:48:43 <ais523> AnMaster: what about hacking into Freenode? that would work too, so there are more than two ways
17:48:52 <ais523> note that this does not imply that any of the ways are sensible
17:49:09 <AnMaster> ais523, we are not talking about the same goal
17:49:17 <ehird> only with AnMaster do you need that disclaimer to avoid him chastising you for it
17:49:21 <ehird> AnMaster: yes he is
17:49:25 <AnMaster> the goal I was talking about was "debugging the issue in egobot"
17:49:34 <AnMaster> not "making the topic thing work"
17:49:35 <ais523> yes, and you could certainly get useful debugging info that way
17:49:48 <ais523> by seeing what was sent/received with EgoBot
17:49:55 <ehird> exactly
17:49:58 <AnMaster> ais523, oh sorry, thought you meant "hack freenode to automatically set the topic as needed"
17:50:00 <AnMaster> hehe
17:50:00 <ehird> it'd do the same as tcpdump
17:50:03 <ehird> but more HARDCORE
17:50:19 <ais523> AnMaster: you wouldn't need to hack freenode to automatically set the topic
17:50:27 <ais523> anyone with sufficient rights could just tell ChanServ to do it
17:50:46 <AnMaster> ais523, you can't tell chanserv to look for a certain string and set it if not
17:50:47 <GregorR> It's more intelligent than that.
17:50:55 <GregorR> It just adds necessary phrases if they're removed.
17:50:57 <AnMaster> you can tell it to always keep a topic it has been set to keep
17:51:00 -!- GregorR has set topic: I swear this works now guys..
17:51:06 <ehird> wtf
17:51:09 <ehird> my text was gray there
17:51:10 <AnMaster> GregorR, liar!
17:51:16 <AnMaster> ehird, it was a channel notice
17:51:17 <ais523> ehird: you sent a NOTICE, not a PRIVMSG
17:51:18 <Asztal> you /noticed us
17:51:19 <GregorR> O_O THIS IS SO FREAKING TESTED
17:51:21 <ais523> I'm not entirely sure why
17:51:21 <AnMaster> -ehird/#esoteric- it's also obnoxious
17:51:31 <AnMaster> yes...
17:51:31 <ehird> control-enter does it
17:51:32 <ehird> foo
17:51:33 <ehird> yep
17:51:34 <ehird> XD
17:51:44 <ais523> /me tests control-enter
17:51:48 <ais523> ok, that was interesting
17:51:51 <ais523> it sent the line raw
17:51:57 <ais523> well, without parsing the /me
17:52:09 <AnMaster> not here I think...
17:52:09 <AnMaster> Ctrl-enter inserts a newline in the input string?
17:52:09 <AnMaster> Huh
17:52:17 <ehird> no...
17:52:21 <ehird> ctrl-enter sends it as a notice
17:52:31 <Asztal> a
17:52:31 <ehird> for me
17:52:33 <AnMaster> every irc client is different
17:52:35 <AnMaster> ...
17:52:36 <ehird> no shit
17:52:37 <ehird> i said
17:52:38 <ais523> yep, doesn't surprise me
17:52:38 <ehird> for me
17:52:43 <ehird> i thought you meant me
17:52:48 -!- GregorR has set topic: I REALLY swear this works now guys..
17:52:48 -!- EgoBot has set topic: Esoteric programming languages | I REALLY swear this works now guys. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:52:56 <GregorR> Finally ... for cripes sake :P
17:53:05 <ehird> ok can you disable it now :|
17:53:08 <GregorR> See, it just adds the base topic and the log.
17:53:14 <Asztal> doesn't seem to do anything in irssi
17:53:15 -!- ais523 has set topic: Esoteric programming lemmings | for languages support, visit http://example.com | logs go here.
17:53:15 -!- EgoBot has set topic: Esoteric programming languages | Esoteric programming lemmings | for languages support, visit http://example.com | logs go here | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:53:20 <AnMaster> and I'm not sure why I set mine to turn the input line into a multi-line one. I actually set it so. I see the setting there for it in my .emacs
17:53:24 <ais523> ok, it looks for an exact phrase
17:53:28 -!- AnMaster has set topic: Esoteric programming langusages | Esoteric programming lemmings | for languages support, visit http://example.com | logs go here | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:53:35 <ehird> i like crazy people coming here every now and then and I don't like rigidness and foo to that.
17:53:36 <AnMaster> err
17:53:42 <AnMaster> I think it is broken?
17:53:44 <AnMaster> GregorR, ^
17:53:52 -!- ais523 has set topic: /ul (test)S.
17:53:54 <GregorR> It just adds the things that MUST be there. THAT'S ALL. It doesn't remove anything. It's quite harmless.
17:54:01 <ais523> GregorR: yes, but look at the topic
17:54:03 <AnMaster> GregorR, yes it is broken
17:54:16 <ehird> GregorR: it's still (a) annoying, (b) stops crazy people amusing us and (c) doesn't let us fiddle with silly wordings.
17:54:35 <ais523> ehird: but those are good things!
17:54:36 <AnMaster> ehird, s/amusing/annoying/
17:54:49 <GregorR> OK, fuck this. This is so fucking annoying. A) It's not broken, it's lagging like hell. B) I'm so fucking done creating a channel war. Fuck fuck fuck you all.
17:55:04 <ehird> AnMaster: we only get them once every few months, and they're only here for a few minutes, anyway
17:55:14 <ehird> ais523: silly wordings are great though!
17:55:18 <GregorR> It is now OFF. *huff*
17:55:28 <ehird> annoying GregorR is fun for the whole family :)
17:55:40 <ais523> ehird: everyone seems to like it but you
17:55:42 <AnMaster> may I suggest vote then
17:55:47 <ais523> where everyone = GregorR + me + ehird
17:56:01 <ais523> * + AnMaster, not + ehird
17:56:04 <ehird> that's some epic definition of everyone
17:56:18 <ais523> Asztal hasn't expressed an opinion yet, everyone else is idling
17:56:38 <ehird> but is it like unto?
17:56:52 <Asztal> I don't have much of an opinion
17:56:53 <AnMaster> GregorR, turn it back on.
17:57:02 <AnMaster> !help
17:57:02 <Asztal> does it add the link to the logs, too?
17:57:02 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
17:57:04 -!- pikhq has set topic: You ſuck like unto a royal ſucker. | /ul (test)S.
17:57:24 -!- ais523 has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:57:42 -!- ehird has set topic: we induct bugs http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:57:49 -!- AnMaster has set topic: The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:57:58 -!- ehird has set topic: we induct pikhqs http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:58:07 <pikhq> /mode +t
17:58:10 -!- AnMaster has set topic: we induct pikhqs http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | esoteric programming languages.
17:58:15 <ehird> /mode +bugs
17:58:18 <ehird> AnMaster: i can settle for that.
17:58:23 <ehird> YOU HAVE WON THE BATTLE
17:58:23 <GregorR> I'm going to go exercise, you guys squabble like idiots. I'll be back in an hour.
17:58:25 <ehird> BUT I WILL WIN THE WAR
17:58:35 <AnMaster> pikhq, might be needed, since ehird doesn't accept what the majority wants.
17:58:41 <AnMaster> he never has in fact.
17:59:20 <AnMaster> actually, one minor change
17:59:27 <ehird> i wonder why AnMaster never expressed an opinion about it until i disliked it. oh yeah, he just does the opposite of everything I do. it's good to see you care so deeply about the topic, though.
17:59:29 <ais523> what does mode +bugs actually do?
17:59:29 -!- AnMaster has set topic: we induct pikhqs http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the phrase "esoteric programming languages" AT ALL TIMES.
17:59:32 <AnMaster> that is better
17:59:41 <ais523> anyway, idea: we give Wooble op powers on this channel
17:59:44 <AnMaster> ehird, um.... I did express it before.
17:59:45 <ais523> it's not as though he'd use it
17:59:57 <AnMaster> ais523, who is wooble?
18:00:07 <ais523> AnMaster: ##nomic op
18:00:12 <AnMaster> hah
18:00:16 <ais523> ehird left the channel in a huff when he got op powers, and has never returned
18:00:25 <AnMaster> ais523, ooh good idea then
18:00:39 <ehird> great success!
18:00:41 -!- ehird has left (?).
18:00:51 <AnMaster> ais523, I think it will say "missing parameter to +b" or something like that
18:00:55 <AnMaster> not completely sure
18:01:02 <ais523> what would u/g/s do?
18:01:04 <AnMaster> as for s, "secret"
18:01:13 <ais523> oh, ofc
18:01:14 <AnMaster> u and g... well they would depend on ircd
18:01:19 <AnMaster> not sure if freenode has them
18:01:25 <AnMaster> and if it does, what they do
18:01:52 <Asztal> +g (allow anybody to invite)
18:01:57 <AnMaster> hm ok
18:02:01 <Asztal> there's no +u though
18:02:16 <AnMaster> +u is "auditorium" on unrealircd iirc.
18:02:45 <AnMaster> something like "the ops can see anyone in the channel, non-ops can only see the ops"... Competely useless IMO.
18:02:47 <AnMaster> completely*
18:03:00 <ais523> is that see who's there, or see comments?
18:03:26 <pikhq> That would be like an "ANNOUNCEMENTS" channel or some such.
18:03:43 <AnMaster> ais523, see who is there
18:03:52 <AnMaster> pikhq, in combination with +m yeah
18:04:02 <AnMaster> but, it really isn't very useful.
18:04:04 <AnMaster> IMO
18:04:07 <pikhq> Yeah.
18:04:21 <Asztal> auditorium mode is an alternative to WALLOPS, IIRC
18:05:41 <AnMaster> Asztal, I can't imagine anyone but network staff wanting to make a global announcement over irc like that. Most projects with an irc channel would probably have a website, and make the announcement of the new release of the software or such there.
18:06:18 <AnMaster> and why hide other users? What do you actually gain from it.
18:06:33 <AnMaster> anonymity who is there I guess... but how often do you need that?
18:06:39 <Asztal> I can't remember the last time I visited freenode.org though...
18:06:54 <AnMaster> Asztal, um.. Read what I said again
18:06:58 <oerjan> > cycle$(" WALL"++)=<<["OPS","S","ABIES"]
18:06:59 <Asztal> It would reduce traffic, I don't know how much
18:07:00 <lambdabot> " WALLOPS WALLS WALLABIES WALLOPS WALLS WALLABIES WALLOPS WALLS WALLABIES W...
18:07:10 <ais523> yep, I guessed it was for traffic reasons
18:07:12 <AnMaster> Asztal, "I can't imagine anyone but network staff wanting to make a global announcement over irc like that"
18:07:32 <AnMaster> Asztal, network staff do need global announcements.
18:07:34 <AnMaster> yes
18:07:46 <AnMaster> so not sure how "<Asztal> I can't remember the last time I visited freenode.org though..." was relevant at all.
18:07:58 <pikhq> And that's what global notices are for.
18:08:14 <AnMaster> yeah
18:08:17 <AnMaster> and/or wallops
18:08:19 <Asztal> yeah, I misread you
18:08:45 <AnMaster> how many of you in here know how to make a global notice? Without checking docs or googling or similiar?
18:09:03 <pikhq> Not I. For the obvious reason that I'm not network staff.
18:09:12 <pikhq> And so really have no purpose for it.
18:09:17 <AnMaster> fair enough
18:09:28 <AnMaster> but it is the answer to "How" is the interesting.
18:09:38 <Asztal> but there have also been "IRC interviews" and that sort of thing where users send questions to an interviewer, the interviewee answers, ...
18:09:52 <Asztal> punctuatimnng it with join and part messages would be annoying
18:09:54 <AnMaster> Asztal, never heard of that, ok
18:10:22 <AnMaster> Asztal, also I can just tell my client to filter joins/parts in a specific channel
18:11:56 <AnMaster> anyway, most people who know how to make a global notice tends to answer "using operserv" or similiar. But what if services are down? Very few seems to know the very interesting syntax to do it manually
18:12:42 <AnMaster> that syntax is /notice $*.server.hostmask.org Message goes here!
18:13:08 <AnMaster> where $*.server.hostmask.org can be $* for "all servers" or some mask matching a subset of them
18:13:24 <AnMaster> quite possible to notice all users on a specific server, but no one else (for example)
18:13:33 <AnMaster> oh and that works for both NOTICE and PRIVMSG
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18:13:44 <AnMaster> but I never seen anyone actually do a global PRIVMSG.
18:16:25 * pikhq wants to see someone do a global CTCP ACTION.
18:16:32 * pikhq lulz
18:16:43 <Asztal> what about a global DCC?
18:16:53 <ais523> Asztal: you use CTCPs to set up DCCs
18:16:57 <ais523> so it would be a global CTCP first
18:16:58 <Asztal> exactly
18:17:44 <AnMaster> since a CTCP is just a PRIVMSG that starts and end with the byte 0x01...
18:17:48 <AnMaster> could be done yeah
18:18:00 <AnMaster> except, only the first connection would get served
18:18:23 <AnMaster> since DCC is point-to-point, and the person who sends the first message act as the server...
18:18:33 <AnMaster> well yeah with a custom DCC server it could be done
18:18:52 <AnMaster> that accepts more than one connection once set up to wait for connection
18:19:58 <AnMaster> (for brevity I'm here ignoring the various types of passive dcc, none of the incompatible variations are supported by more than a few clients)
18:19:59 * oerjan tests ctcp<CTCP><CTCP>VERSION
18:20:18 <AnMaster> bbl
18:21:08 <oerjan> not a single VERSION response :(
18:22:03 <Asztal> ChatZilla might, it supports CTCPs in the middle of messages
18:22:30 <oerjan> lessee <CTCP>VERSION<CTCP> about that
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18:22:56 <oerjan> i suppose there just aren't any clients supporting either kind present
18:23:01 <pikhq> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/28/how-to-save-the-newspapers-vol-xii-outlaw-linking/
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18:24:24 <Azstal> oerjan: try it now?
18:25:06 * oerjan tests ctcp<CTCP><CTCP>VERSION
18:25:24 <oerjan> lessee <CTCP>VERSION<CTCP> about that
18:25:38 <oerjan> nothing
18:25:39 <Azstal> hmm, maybe it doesn't actually support them, then.
18:25:59 <Azstal> I saw: lessee [\0x01]VERSION[\0x01] about that
18:27:31 <oerjan> oh well
18:27:36 <Azstal> there was a bug where messages with inline CTCPs would be lost completely; I guess they just fixed that bug
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18:31:25 <pikhq> I saw a A instead.
18:31:27 <pikhq> Erm.
18:31:32 <pikhq> Not that.
18:32:20 <pikhq> A
18:32:27 <pikhq> That's what I saw, instead of [\0x01]
18:32:53 <oerjan> you do know this channel censors colors, right?
18:33:21 <oerjan> afk
18:33:52 <AnMaster> * oerjan tests ctcp
18:33:55 <AnMaster> oerjan, huh?
18:34:19 <oerjan> AnMaster: there was a second ctcp at the end, a VERSION
18:34:22 <pikhq> Followed by C-a C-a VERSION.
18:34:27 <oerjan> your client apparently ignored it
18:34:29 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh THAT... nothing supports that.
18:34:34 <AnMaster> well
18:34:38 <AnMaster> possibly something
18:34:44 <oerjan> AnMaster: nothing on this channel anyhow :D
18:34:51 <oerjan> afk again
18:34:52 <pikhq> Anyways, C-a showed up as an inverse A.
18:34:59 <AnMaster> oerjan, one or two irc clients.
18:35:19 <AnMaster> uncommon ones
18:35:43 <AnMaster> pikhq, here C-a jumps to the beginning of the line
18:35:53 <pikhq> C-a is also \0x01.
18:36:06 <AnMaster> pikhq, right
18:36:37 <AnMaster> but in >99.99% of the cases I press that key combo I actually want it to jump to the start of the line
18:36:38 <AnMaster> :P
18:37:23 <pikhq> Yes.
18:38:35 <Asztal>
18:38:49 * AnMaster tries to remember the damn key combo for "insert control code
18:38:50 <AnMaster> "
18:39:03 <Asztal> aww, that failed... I was trying to spell things out with control characters :(
18:39:23 <AnMaster> <Asztal> [0012] <-- yeah fail
18:39:37 <pikhq> Billy Mays here, ... No, never mind.
18:39:59 <AnMaster> ais523, help! what was the damn key combo to insert control code in emacs now again
18:40:05 <ais523> control-q
18:40:15 <AnMaster> right
18:40:16 <ais523> followed by the code either literally, or typing the digits in octal then pressing return
18:40:20 <ais523> at least, I think it's octal by default
18:40:25 <ais523> but that's changeable
18:41:22 <AnMaster> ah... I was looking for insert-* functions...
18:41:33 <AnMaster> it seems it is bound to quoted-insert
18:41:56 <AnMaster> If the first character you type after this command is an octal digit,
18:41:56 <AnMaster> you should type a sequence of octal digits which specify a character code.
18:41:56 <AnMaster> Any nondigit terminates the sequence. If the terminator is a RET,
18:41:56 <AnMaster> it is discarded; any other terminator is used itself as input.
18:41:58 <AnMaster> ais523, ^
18:42:22 <AnMaster> and yes you can change it with read-quoted-char-radix
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20:15:28 <Slereah> http://zip.4chan.org/co/src/1246215767502.gif
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20:19:10 <Deewiant> :-D
20:20:24 <Deewiant> In case of 404: http://geeksofbohemia.com/2008/09/euclids-on-the-block/
20:53:03 <GregorR> In case of 200: Just look at the site in question
20:53:45 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:54:13 <pikhq> In case of 1337: HTTP 1.1 FAIL.
20:56:40 <ais523> what if you get one of the weird status codes?
21:16:52 <fizzie> 402 Payment Required.
21:21:59 <SimonRC> oh I am getting high on the Curry-Horward Isomorphism again
21:22:33 <SimonRC> I look at the examples section and see the K and S combinators http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deduction_theorem
21:23:07 <SimonRC> the introduction of hypotheses is just lambdas
21:23:19 <SimonRC> the other lines are just variable bindings
21:23:42 <SimonRC> the fomulae are just their types
21:23:53 <SimonRC> hihihihihihihhhh...
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22:11:12 <AnMaster> <Slereah> http://zip.4chan.org/co/src/1246215767502.gif <-- heh
22:12:16 <AnMaster> Slereah, is there more of the same?
22:12:56 <AnMaster> (as in: is this a one off, or some sort of series?)
22:13:08 <Slereah> I doubt it
22:14:51 <AnMaster> hyperbolic geometry is fun btw
22:17:08 <Slereah> Your butt is an hyperbolic surface
22:19:00 * SimonRC doesn't really see how it is *that* funny
22:22:18 <Slereah> Because fuck that kid
22:29:18 -!- jix has quit ("leaving").
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22:53:00 <oerjan> what, nearly no one said anything in 3 1/2 hours?
22:54:52 <Slereah> JEWS
22:55:09 <oerjan> well ok some jews were blathering, that's true
22:55:14 <augur> cocks.
22:55:22 <oerjan> and some fags
22:56:03 <oerjan> well the plural may be overstating it
22:56:56 <oerjan> actually on second consideration 8 people spoke, just not very much each
22:57:20 <augur> oerjan: there are many a fag here
22:57:57 <oerjan> yes but i cannot prove that more than 1 spoke in the last 3 1/2 hours
22:58:03 <oerjan> since you didn't
22:58:27 <Slereah> But I did
22:58:36 <oerjan> yes, but you are not plural
22:58:46 <Slereah> But me and augur are
22:58:57 <oerjan> and he did not speak
22:59:11 <Slereah> let's say AnMaster is a faggot then
22:59:32 <augur> its probably true
22:59:47 <AnMaster> nah
23:01:08 <augur> oh. so its definitely true. ok!
23:01:46 <oerjan> augur: i bet he hasn't stopped beating his boyfriend yet, either
23:01:59 <augur> probably!
23:09:35 <SimonRC> um, this is the #esoteric window not the #isharia window
23:09:53 <Slereah> You wouldn't know
23:09:57 <augur> SimonRC: good point.
23:10:09 <Slereah> Hey, pthag is still here
23:10:09 <augur> []][[,..,+++--,,,..][]][[[[[]]
23:10:20 <Slereah> Let's Isharia it
23:10:52 <Pthingg> yes
23:11:04 <Pthingg> i put up more on MONOD too
23:11:05 * SimonRC wonders just how badly the AFDers would react to this comic http://rumblo.com/cc/comics/cc-hbdaymike.gif
23:11:47 <oerjan> what the heck is #isharia and will i regret i asked
23:12:14 <augur> its the human-language equivalent of #esoteric.
23:12:19 <oerjan> aha
23:12:24 <augur> /#proglangdesign
23:12:39 <Pthingg> slllllllightly longer attention span
23:12:48 <augur> what?
23:12:51 <augur> oh sorry i got distracte
23:14:19 <oerjan> it is very easy to get dist
23:15:05 <oerjan> hm that bf is unbalanced
23:19:07 <augur> oerjan yes it is but i dont know bf :D
23:20:15 <oerjan> augur: well generally [] being unbalanced is the only thing that can cause a syntax error in bf
23:20:22 <augur> ;P
23:21:39 <oerjan> also, [] is rarely useful since it is either skipped or an infinite loop
23:22:05 <oerjan> ][] is equivalent to ]
23:22:13 <oerjan> [[]] is equivalent to [] i think
23:22:15 <augur> oh god shut up :P
23:22:29 <pikhq> oerjan: It is.
23:22:43 <oerjan> in fact [[...]] is equivalent to [...] i think
23:23:01 <oerjan> augur: just pondering
23:24:04 <oerjan> so []][[,..,+++--,,,..][]][[[[[]] simplifies to []][[[
23:24:27 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Ich muss schlafen!").
23:24:35 <augur> lovely
23:25:43 <oerjan> ][...] is equivalent to ] actually, it's a major way of adding free(er) commenting
23:26:26 <oerjan> hm []] possibly simplifies to ]
23:26:33 <oerjan> er no
23:26:48 <SimonRC> [] is trouble
23:26:57 <oerjan> not after ]
23:28:24 <oerjan> [[]...] is equivalent to [] ?
23:28:45 <GregorR> Yeah
23:28:56 <GregorR> What a stupid thing to do ;P
23:29:51 <SimonRC> [] is either NOP or HANG
23:29:57 <SimonRC> not very useful
23:30:12 <pikhq> Except in perverse cases of testing the halting problem. ;p
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23:52:17 <SimonRC> -!- SimonRC [n=sc@fof.durge.org] is away ["bed, etc"]
23:55:58 -!- nooga has joined.
23:57:37 <nooga> oh hoi
23:58:03 <AnMaster> SimonRC, "#isharia"? I think I heard this mentioned in here a few days ago
23:58:11 * AnMaster wonders what that channel is
23:59:31 <AnMaster> ah found it later on
23:59:39 <AnMaster> (doing ehird-style log reading :P)
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