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01:21:35 <ehird> S = { 2*x | x <- Naturals, x^2 > 3 }
01:21:38 <ehird> I love dependent types.
01:22:56 <ehird> pikhq: Lemme explain.
01:23:00 <pikhq> S is the set of natural numbers for which half of their value squared is greater than 3?
01:23:12 <ehird> pikhq: Normally, you have values indexing on values — i.e. values depend and interact with values and nothing else —
01:23:15 <ehird> and types indexing on types.
01:23:20 <ehird> With typeclasses, values index on types —
01:23:27 <ehird> so that (foo::A) and (foo::B) can differ.
01:23:33 <ehird> With dependent typing, TYPES index on VALUES.
01:23:44 <ehird> So, e.g. "printf :: (s :: String) -> PrintfType s".
01:23:49 <ehird> PrintfType :: String -> Set
01:23:56 <ehird> And it looks at the string and decides a type.
01:24:16 <ehird> Since you can't know the values at type-time, you have to provide enough proofs to make it sure of the type.
01:24:20 <ehird> (Unless it's obvious, e.g. a literal).
01:24:45 <ehird> pikhq: Then, (36 :: S) types but (7 :: S) doesn't.
01:24:57 <pikhq> That... That is awesome.
01:25:17 <pikhq> I think I love Haskell's type system even more.
01:25:21 <oerjan> > [ 2*x | x <- [0..], x^2 > 3]
01:25:22 <lambdabot> [4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,52,54...
01:25:24 <ehird> pikhq: Oh, Haskell doesn't do it.
01:25:27 <ehird> oerjan: that's a list, not a type.
01:25:52 <pikhq> ehird: Oh, right. Wasn't there some Haskellido that added dependent types?
01:26:05 <ehird> pikhq: But it's not objectively a good thing: you can't infer types in all cases (Haskell can't either but it's much rarer), it's a lot of complexity, and you have to prove a lot of stuff a lot of the time. Also, typechecking might not halt.
01:26:21 <ehird> Also, Agda is quite like Haskell and has dependent types. "She" also does it, but hackily.
01:26:24 <ehird> (It's just a haskell preprocessor)
01:26:32 <ehird> http://www.e-pig.org/epilogue/
01:26:57 <pikhq> It's not like it's a bad thing that typechecking might not halt.
01:27:12 <ehird> pikhq: Sure it is; the whole point is to catch errors in a predictable way :)
01:27:13 <pikhq> Oh, wait. Only other language with that property that I can think of is C++.
01:27:30 <ehird> pikhq: Also, if you do a lot of type-computation, you'll be sitting there wondering if it'll halt.
01:27:38 <ehird> pikhq: Hmm. Total FP + dependent types?
01:28:11 <ehird> You know it halts, you know it's safe! Category theorists, switch to this post haste! For we have dependent tyyyyypes! (For- we- have- dependent- tyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyypes!)
01:29:03 <ehird> I think regular data types will prolly look like:
01:29:14 <ehird> Tuple :: Set -> Set -> Set
01:29:24 <ehird> Tuple A B = { Tuple x y | x <- A, y <- B }
01:29:36 <ehird> well. using constructors as the same name as types prolly won't work.
01:29:39 <ehird> Tuple A B = { (,) x y | x <- A, y <- B }
01:29:55 <pikhq> I never realised that a type system could be so awesome.
01:30:02 <ehird> So then (() , ()) :: Tuple Null Null.
01:30:30 <ehird> pikhq: Type system? Isn't that thing those Javaheads use where a variable can only have a string, number or class?
01:30:32 <ehird> Ha! That's just stupid.
01:32:04 <ehird> pikhq: Incidentally, you could probably express "list of strings and integers" with this system.
01:32:11 <ehird> Just union string and integer and do (List Foo).
01:32:26 <ehird> Then { "foo", 2, "bar", 77, 3, "hello", "world" } :: List Foo should type.
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01:42:59 * ehird invents the bestest type: EvenInteger.
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01:44:14 <ehird> It is like an integer, but has to be even.
01:47:08 <sgeo> Why can't I do what the f*** I want to with the WTFPL?
01:48:52 <ehird> sgeo: Because only idiots self-censor.
01:49:10 <sgeo> That does not answer the question
01:49:17 <ehird> Idiots who have no concept of what offensive means, idiots who haven't considered why they do it other than a vague notion of "politeness" and otherwise.
01:49:23 <ehird> sgeo: What the hell is the question?
01:49:26 <ehird> You can do what the fuck you want to.
01:49:39 <ehird> Oh, you mean the license itself?
01:49:40 <sgeo> I can't change the content of the license itself without changing the name
01:49:50 <ehird> Because a circular dependency Wouldn't Work.
01:50:59 <sgeo> On the topic of censorship: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0162.html (you have to understand that all swear words in Erfworld are replaced with "boop")
01:52:19 <ehird> Two exclamation marks I espy. A true sign of utter inanity, or in rare cases pure insanity.
01:54:54 <oerjan> sgeo: sounds like you're eking close to a russell's paradox there
01:55:55 <oerjan> (that seems not a correct use of "eke", anyway)
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05:25:42 <Warrigal> ehird: have you considered why you pronounce everything the way you do?
05:25:53 <Warrigal> If not, I guess you're an idiot, because you do something without considering why you do it.
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05:29:33 <Warrigal> If imitating language habits that you've seen and you like makes you an idiot, f*** that.
05:52:03 <Warrigal> Shall we invent a constructed language that can be parsed by giving it directly to a Haskell interpreter?
06:02:41 * Zuu creates a foot tickling machine and attaches it to Warrigal's feet
06:04:03 <Zuu> that could be quite mean actually
06:04:13 * Zuu just invented a new kind of torture
06:10:03 * Warrigal tries to remember what that one motion is called.
06:12:36 <Warrigal> Maybe I'll have to invent a word for it.
06:14:29 <Warrigal> I wonder if I can reborrow something.
06:18:35 <Deewiant> Zuu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickle_torture
06:19:06 <Zuu> Lol!, what a coincidence :P
06:19:41 <Zuu> But still sad, then i didnt invent it anyways :/
06:20:54 <Zuu> what is 'nobility' ?
06:21:13 <augur> zuu: its when you get to fuck your relatives and noone minds
06:21:31 <augur> see, i dont understand how tickle torture could genuinely be torture
06:21:37 <Zuu> as in having intercource ?
06:22:09 <Zuu> .. with relatives ?
06:22:51 <Zuu> i was just trying to understand if you meant 'fuck' literally
06:23:28 <Zuu> oh you'll just '...' for anything :P
06:23:52 <augur> no, i ... for completely absurd questions
06:24:00 <Zuu> anyways, getting tickled under your feet for extended periods of time is indeed extremely unpleasant
06:24:28 <Zuu> you should get one of your friends to do that to you, then you'll understand :)
06:25:18 <augur> It is cited that the Burmese king Nanda Bayin, in 1599 "laughed to death when informed by a visiting Italian merchant that Venice was a free state without a king."
06:25:32 <augur> apparently so was burma, after that little bout of stupidity!
06:25:47 <augur> zuu: i have a tickle fetish
06:28:02 <augur> ive had laughter fits. those are fun. :o
06:28:13 <Zuu> Haha, that gif anumation on that article is fun, kittens licking feet ^^
06:29:14 <augur> zuu, are you an adorable boy between the ages of 18 and 25?
06:29:41 <Zuu> adorable, i wouldnt know, but otherwise, yes :)
06:29:53 <augur> well show me a picture and ill let you know :o
06:30:09 <Zuu> Haha... naah
06:30:37 <augur> are you a homosexual
06:30:56 <Zuu> if i am, i dont know it yet
06:30:59 <augur> (if youre not you should probably leave; its a law tht everyone in #esoteric is a homosexual)
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06:31:27 <Zuu> Oh, right, i suppose ill just wait till i get kicked
06:32:17 <augur> i wish i had ops so i could kick you for humors sake :(
06:32:41 <augur> you'd learn your lesson then!
06:32:57 <augur> And dont come back till you love cock! >|
06:33:51 * Zuu suddently finds this conversation unpleasant
06:34:13 <augur> awkward is better than unpleasant.
06:34:15 <augur> far more interesting
06:34:22 <coppro> does doing text processing in SQL count as esoteric?
06:34:49 <augur> only by virtue of SQL being esoteric.
06:35:11 <coppro> SQL for simple retrieval for storage is hardly esoteric!
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06:36:30 <Zuu> how about doing string processing using tuple calculus
06:36:58 <Zuu> with a suitably inappropriate string encoding
06:39:37 <augur> CESSMASTER: so just unicode codepoints as you normally see them denoted.
06:39:41 <Zuu> actually it would have to be a tuple set that represent the string, otherwise it is not possible
06:40:10 <Zuu> but and inappropriate scheme for construction of that set :P
06:40:56 <augur> text encoded as non-uniform natural-language descriptions of the shapes of the characters
06:41:08 <augur> in a language like, say, ... Ojibwa.
06:41:54 <Zuu> or really just, map the use of language to the particular code points
06:42:06 <augur> the ojibwa descriptions will, ofcourse, be written in an ascii encoding of the native ojibwa writing system
06:42:18 <augur> zuu: thats why i said non-uniform
06:42:20 <Zuu> suc that the round shape in o must be expressed in one language while the round shape in Q must be expressed in another
06:42:21 <augur> so there is no mapping
06:44:29 <Zuu> how about expressing it as decimal comma separated integers representing the bytes of just what you said
06:45:54 <Zuu> no reason to make it easyperhaps even with binary checksums every 8 byte of that
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15:35:51 <ais523> busy in RL, I may not talk much
15:35:52 <AnMaster> ais523, any progress on feather?
15:35:59 <ais523> AnMaster: ducking a feather is easy
15:36:05 <ais523> or maybe it's a duck feather?
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16:03:02 <AnMaster> ais523, what does "Hofstadterially" mean? It is in the hover text in xkcd today and google's define: doesn't know.
16:03:14 <AnMaster> Nor does plain google yeild any *useful* results
16:03:25 <ais523> AnMaster: it means "in a manner reminiscent of Douglas Hofstadter"
16:03:31 <ais523> and googling him should yield useful results, hopefuly
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16:16:37 <Deewiant> http://code.google.com/p/awib/
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16:26:04 <Deewiant> Yes, I can see that from the dates
16:31:21 <Deewiant> How does its optimization compare to your recent efforts?
16:34:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, iirc lifthrasiir mentioned on his page about esotope-bfc
16:35:08 <AnMaster> as for mine? no idea. in-between is dormant btw
16:35:13 <AnMaster> working on other stuff currently
16:37:08 <Deewiant> Yep, http://code.google.com/p/esotope-bfc/wiki/Comparison has it
16:38:31 <AnMaster> looking there then in-btween is way better
16:48:03 <AnMaster> lifthrasiir, "and propagates all constants (something other compiler doesn't do)" <-- technically in-between does that, but possibly not all of them
16:48:17 <AnMaster> and since it is dormant atm I know it is broken in some parts.
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19:47:01 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int'
19:47:26 <pikhq> Oh, wait. %x. ... Screw you, Alex Smith.
19:48:07 <ais523> shouldn't be too hard, surely?
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21:26:21 <ehird> @hoogle Int->[a]->String
21:26:22 <lambdabot> Data.List drop :: Int -> [a] -> [a]
21:26:26 <ehird> yah not what i meant lambdabot
21:26:30 <ehird> @hoogle Int->Integer->String
21:26:30 <lambdabot> Prelude encodeFloat :: RealFloat a => Integer -> Int -> a
21:26:31 <lambdabot> Data.Generics.Basics gmapQi :: Data a => Int -> (a -> u) -> a -> u
21:26:31 <lambdabot> Prelude flip :: (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c
21:26:33 <ehird> @hoogle Int->Int->String
21:26:34 <lambdabot> Distribution.Simple.Command commandShowOptions :: CommandUI flags -> flags -> [String]
21:26:34 <lambdabot> Data.Generics.Basics gmapQi :: Data a => Int -> (a -> u) -> a -> u
21:26:34 <lambdabot> Data.Fixed div' :: (Real a, Integral b) => a -> a -> b
21:26:40 <ehird> i swear there's a function for it
21:27:19 <lambdabot> forall a. (Integral a) => a -> (Int -> Char) -> a -> String -> String
21:27:40 <ehird> ugh, i hate that function
21:27:43 <ehird> it's so complicated
21:29:21 <Deewiant> ?ty flip showIntAtBase intToDigit :: (Integral a) => a -> a -> ShowS
21:29:23 <lambdabot> forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> String -> String
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21:42:10 <oerjan> !c int x; for (x=32;x<255;x++) printf("%x ", x);
21:42:11 <EgoBot> 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2a 2b 2c 2d 2e 2f 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 3a 3b 3c 3d 3e 3f 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 4a 4b 4c 4d 4e 4f 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 5a 5b 5c 5d 5e 5f 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 6a 6b 6c 6d 6e 6f 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 7a 7b 7c 7d 7e 7f 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 8a 8b 8c 8d 8e 8f 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 9a 9b 9c 9d 9e 9f a0 a1 a2 a3 a4 a5 a6 a7 a8 a9 aa ab ac ad ae af b0 b1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7
21:45:06 <lambdabot> forall a. (Integral a) => a -> (Int -> Char) -> a -> String -> String
21:46:04 <oerjan> > showIntAtBase 256 chr 0xdeadbeef ""
21:46:23 <Deewiant> > flip showIntAtBase intToDigit 256 0xdeadbeef
21:46:25 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show
21:46:29 <Deewiant> > flip showIntAtBase intToDigit 256 0xdeadbeef ""
21:46:31 <lambdabot> "* Exception: Char.intToDigit: not a digit 239
21:47:58 <ehird> 21:47 roconnor: ehird: CReal isn't FewDigits // in lambdabot
21:48:39 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.CReal.CReal'
21:48:59 <oerjan> @hoogle Data.Number.CReal
21:49:12 <ehird> from numbers on hackage
21:49:19 <ehird> 21:49 roconnor: ehird: numbers is faster and lies more
21:49:42 <oerjan> erm it clearly says Data.Number.CReal there
21:49:48 <ehird> oerjan: the type is CReal.
21:49:51 <ehird> it is not Few Digits' CReal.
21:50:01 <ehird> it is less accurate, sez roconnor
21:50:19 <oerjan> <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.CReal.CReal'
21:50:26 <ehird> whoosh is for jokes, oerjan :P
21:51:23 <ehird> 21:51 Cale: > 1/(10^100) == (0 :: CReal)
21:51:24 <ehird> 21:51 lambdabot: True
21:51:28 <ehird> Deewiant: a computable reals library
21:51:32 <ehird> http://r6.ca/FewDigits/
21:51:42 <ehird> which can represent any computable real exactly, and compute on it without error
21:52:30 <Deewiant> Nice, == doesn't terminate :-)
21:53:21 <ehird> Deewiant: due to a little thing called "impossibility"
21:54:39 <ehird> Deewiant: pi == pi
21:54:48 <ehird> have fun traversing all those infinity digits to find out if they ever differ
21:55:13 <ehird> Deewiant: 1 is represented at 1.00000000000000000000000000000…
21:55:28 <ehird> Deewiant: besides, why have a semi-broken (==)?
21:55:31 <Deewiant> It doesn't have to be like that.
21:55:33 <ehird> it'd still be bad to use it in general
21:55:42 <Deewiant> Yeah, why break something halfway if you can break it all the way?
21:55:54 <oerjan> Deewiant: predictability
21:56:22 <oerjan> in fact this reminds me of yesterday's wolfram alpha critique on reddit
21:57:43 <oerjan> wolfram alpha's "natural language" user interface is so bad because (1) it obviously cannot be perfect (2) because it is complicated but not perfect, it's impossible for users to do things reliably with it
21:57:50 <oerjan> was part of the gist of it
21:57:51 <ehird> oerjan: okay blame byorgey, i'm going to bug you about continued fractions now
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21:58:25 <ehird> oerjan: heyyyyyyyyy, I have an idea
21:58:38 <ehird> oerjan: data Butt = Div Integer Butt | StopHammerTime Integer
21:58:43 <ehird> oerjan: 1.5 = 1/2/3
21:59:36 <oerjan> well that's just numerator/denominator, or possibly some factorization
22:00:15 <oerjan> you cannot represent anything other than (a1*a2*...*an)/(b1*b2*...*bn) that way. and those are all rational too
22:00:46 <oerjan> you could also get some infinite expressions i guess, but they wouldn't correspond to reals in any obvious way
22:01:54 <oerjan> the fact that continued fractions actually converge as limits is important. :)
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23:06:03 <bsmntbombdood> why has nobody made a hard drive with 2 r/w heads?
23:06:15 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: erm aren't platters equivalent
23:06:24 <bsmntbombdood> wouldn't that be like have 2 hard drives in raid0?
23:06:33 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: not if they hit into each other
23:07:21 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, wouldn't fit in the normal form factor though
23:07:29 <ehird> i'm fairly sure it's not a good idea because (a) it's so obvious that you have to try really hard not to think of it and (b) it hasn't been done in all the decades we've had hard drives, evre
23:07:40 <ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers
23:07:45 <oerjan> `addquote <bsmntbombdood> there is plenty of room to have two heads
23:07:49 <HackEgo> 28|<bsmntbombdood> there is plenty of room to have two heads
23:08:12 <ehird> `addquote IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <bsmntbombdood> there is plenty of room to get head twice at once
23:08:13 <HackEgo> 29|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <bsmntbombdood> there is plenty of room to get head twice at once
23:08:21 <ehird> I pride myself on unfunny alternate universe requotes.
23:08:24 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:10:20 <oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste
23:10:36 <ehird> `addquote <oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste
23:10:37 <HackEgo> 30|<oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste
23:10:44 <AnMaster> <ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers <-- the latter. We all know it.
23:10:50 <ehird> `addquote IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <oerjan> In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste"
23:10:51 <HackEgo> 31|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <oerjan> In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste"
23:11:03 <ehird> AnMaster: i just ended it with a cyclic quote structure ↑
23:11:32 <AnMaster> ? addquote <ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers
23:11:36 <AnMaster> `addquote <ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers
23:11:37 <HackEgo> 32|<ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers
23:11:46 <oerjan> #esoteric, where recursion is considered humor
23:12:46 <ehird> `addquote IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schließen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist völlig BONKERS. Gegrüßet seist du der Führer Hitler!
23:12:47 <HackEgo> 33|IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schließen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist völlig BONKERS. Gegrüßet seist du der Führer Hitler!
23:13:14 <ehird> IN AN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE (WHERE THE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So I can only conclude that it is wrong or the world is completely BONKERS. Hail the leader Hitler!
23:13:19 <ehird> it translated almost perfectly
23:13:36 <ehird> `addquote IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schließen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist völlig BONKERS. Gegrüßet seist du der Führer Hitler!
23:13:37 <HackEgo> 33|IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schließen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist völlig BONKERS. Gegrüßet seist du der Führer Hitler!
23:13:45 <ehird> I'll just deunicode it
23:13:56 <ehird> `addquote IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler!
23:13:58 <HackEgo> 33|IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler!
23:14:08 <ehird> GregorR: consider yourself poked.
23:14:09 <oerjan> that translate-retranslate of Heil Hitler seems a bit out of place
23:14:19 <ehird> oerjan: I said "Hail the Fuhrer Hitler!"
23:14:23 <ehird> Because I wanted Fuhrer in it.
23:14:35 <oerjan> sure, but the german translation contains no "heil"
23:14:53 <AnMaster> it is probably hail as in hailstorm
23:15:23 <ehird> FireFly: HackEgo fails at jew-knee-coeducation.
23:15:57 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure "grüß" is "greet"
23:15:57 <ehird> FireFly: I stripped the ss-s too.
23:16:38 <AnMaster> <oerjan> i'm pretty sure "grüß" is "greet" <-- actually it is "grub" but with a bad typesetter.
23:17:21 * oerjan swats AnMaster -----###
23:17:58 <ehird> `addquote SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTÓ EL MUNDO): <ehird> i tan sólo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo está absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce!
23:17:59 <HackEgo> 34|SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTÓ EL MUNDO): <ehird> i tan sólo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo está absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce!
23:17:59 <AnMaster> oerjan, ...? I thought you would like that joke...
23:18:12 <ehird> `addquote SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): <ehird> i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce!
23:18:13 <HackEgo> 34|SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): <ehird> i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce!
23:18:29 <ehird> Dictatorship translation is all the rage nowadays, or so I hear.
23:19:02 <ehird> It's an hg(1) problem.
23:19:07 <ehird> Further proof that Mercurial is like unto a shit.
23:19:19 <AnMaster> ehird, just that GregorR fails to set it up
23:19:25 <AnMaster> it isn't a general proof it fails
23:19:54 <AnMaster> GregorR, seriously, fix this problem.
23:20:16 <AnMaster> ehird, he doesn't read away log iirc.
23:20:29 <ehird> IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE (WHERE EVERYONE IS KOREAN (NOTE: AS FAR AS I KNOW THIS HAS NEVER COME REMOTELY CLOSE TO HAPPENING, EVER)):
23:20:36 <ehird> I never know this happened in another universe have come remotely close (both where (Note: South Korea, the enemy)):
23:20:39 <ehird> South Korea, the enemy? I never know this happened?
23:20:41 <ehird> Bit of bias, that.
23:20:50 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: a viewsonic or lg or something.
23:20:57 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: 24" @ 1920x1200.
23:21:21 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Not 1920x1080; the 16:9, it burns.
23:21:23 <AnMaster> ehird, ask lifthrasiir about it
23:21:27 <bsmntbombdood> is it even possible to get a bigger resolution than that?
23:21:37 <AnMaster> give him the translated version
23:21:38 <ehird> AnMaster: google translate is based on heuristics and suggestions and articles i think
23:21:59 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: because 16:10 is closer to the golden ratio, and 16:9 is just too widescreen; you can't make a nice square-ish window big enough.
23:22:38 <AnMaster> isn't 4:3 even closer to the golden ratio iirc
23:23:05 <ehird> IN AN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE (WHERE EVERYONE IS KOREAN (NOTE: AS FAR AS I'M AWARE THIS HAS NEVER COME REMOTELY CLOSE TO HAPPENING, EVER)):
23:23:07 <ehird> I know I'm not growing as much as possible remotely close like this happening in an alternative universe (where all (see: Korea, red)):
23:23:12 <ehird> I think this Korean translation is... a bit buggy.
23:23:37 <AnMaster> ehird, either English->Korean or Korean->English is yes
23:24:03 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, ok. I stand corrected
23:24:37 <ehird> `addquote באופן חלופי ביקום זה כרוך כולם מדברים עברית מסיבה כלשהי: <ehird> אז אני יכול רק להסיק כי הוא פגום, או את העולם, הוא מטורף לגמרי
23:24:38 <HackEgo> 35|באופן חלופי ביקום זה כרוך כולם מדברים עברית מסיבה כלשהי: <ehird> אז אני יכול רק להסיק כי הוא פגום, או את העולם, הוא מטורף לגמרי
23:25:53 <oerjan> how in the world can you expect it to record korean when it fails on characters 128-255?
23:26:11 <ehird> `addquote PA ET ANNET UNIVERSET DER DE ENESTE PERSONEN OERJAN: <oerjan> sa jeg kan bare konkludere med at det er feil, eller er verden helt bonkers
23:26:12 <HackEgo> 35|PA ET ANNET UNIVERSET DER DE ENESTE PERSONEN OERJAN: <oerjan> sa jeg kan bare konkludere med at det er feil, eller er verden helt bonkers
23:26:19 <oerjan> why the heck is it blue, not red as i requested
23:26:43 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.nextag.com/NEC-MultiSync-21-3-510541635/prices-html
23:27:06 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Yeah, I'm gonna go with "no". If you wanna spend that much, get an IBM T221 and revel in the tiny 1920x1200 VMs you have.
23:27:22 <ehird> (It costs around $2-3k now; it costed $20,000 when it came out in 2001-2002.)
23:27:28 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Allow me to demonstrate.
23:27:42 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: http://www.novoventus.com/pics/T2211x.jpg
23:27:50 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: The monitor is 22". That top-left virtual machine is 1920x1200.
23:27:55 <ehird> Its DPI exceeds 200.
23:28:00 <ehird> Bring your own graphics cards.
23:28:18 <ehird> Well, I think it's 1920x1200.
23:28:25 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: That's quite big actually.
23:28:33 <ehird> Do you just mean for the resolution?
23:28:41 <ehird> In which case, yes, the resolution is gloriously, gloriously excessive.
23:29:51 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Why?
23:30:09 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: It doesn't affect how big things are, necessarily; fontconfig has a dpi setting.
23:30:13 <ehird> So the text will be the same physical size.
23:30:22 <ehird> But it will be smoother, images can be higher-resolution at the same size, etc.
23:30:42 <AnMaster> http://www.nextag.com/NEC-MultiSync-21-3-510541635/prices-html
23:30:51 <ehird> We're not talking about that one.
23:30:56 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Actually...
23:31:04 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: The T221 is 3840x2400.
23:31:11 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: There aren't any higher single-display resolutions, afaik.
23:31:21 <ehird> And, heck, it beats a lot of two-displays.
23:31:29 <ehird> And they don't have the DPI to boot.
23:31:38 <AnMaster> <ehird> bsmntbombdood: http://www.novoventus.com/pics/T2211x.jpg <-- specs?
23:31:45 <ehird> AnMaster: Which ones
23:31:55 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Obvious disadvantage: you need a lot of graphics horsepower; it will never play games; overly pixel-oriented stuff will be tiny; its refresh rate isn't so hot.
23:31:57 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/63390/ibm-t221.html
23:32:02 <ehird> Advantages: OMG WANT.
23:32:24 <ehird> AnMaster: Contrast is irrelevant.
23:32:36 <ehird> Anything above 800:1 is = 800:1 in room lit by just one candle.
23:32:42 <ehird> Any higher lighting? Doesn't matter one iota.
23:33:00 <ehird> AnMaster: Anyway, it retailed at $20,000. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the panel is good quality.
23:33:02 <AnMaster> ehird, depends on ambient light?
23:33:14 <ehird> AnMaster: Is your room lit by just one candle?
23:33:21 <ehird> if so, then don't buy a monitor under 800:1 (hint: these don't exist)
23:33:28 <ehird> Otherwise, if there's actual light...
23:33:41 <AnMaster> ehird, no... One fluorescent lamp
23:33:43 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: "And, like Formula 1, the technology will filter down to the rest of us before too long; you shouldn't have to wait another ten years to get hold of something similar at an affordable price."
23:33:47 <ehird> 2014 is looking pretty close :)
23:34:00 <ehird> AnMaster: Then contrast is irrelevant above a ridiculously low amount.
23:34:09 <augur> the worlds going to end in 2012
23:34:10 <ehird> augur: that review was written in 2004
23:34:33 <ehird> AnMaster: Hey, if you buy a monitor under 300:1, you might even be able to distinguish it with a magnifying glass.
23:34:37 <bsmntbombdood> seems like it would be nicer to have a 30" or 36" or something display at that resolution
23:34:40 <ehird> Clearly, this is highly important.
23:34:43 <AnMaster> which lights up the keyboard pretty well
23:34:54 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: i dunno about you but i can see my pixels quite easily
23:34:58 <AnMaster> ehird, isn't high contrast better?
23:35:01 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: with high enough dpi we don't need hacks like font antialiasing
23:35:06 <ehird> screen will finally be as good as print
23:35:20 <ehird> AnMaster: Wow, the marketeers have done a good job with you.
23:35:31 <ehird> AnMaster: "Actually it's irrelevant" "...but isn't it better?"
23:35:33 <AnMaster> ehird, actually I never bothered
23:36:06 <AnMaster> ehird, the black on this monitor seems off-black compared to the black foot of it.
23:36:09 <ehird> AnMaster: http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/contrast-ratio.html
23:36:21 <ehird> AnMaster: that applies to all non-OLEDs.
23:36:25 <ehird> well, maybe CRTs too.
23:36:27 <ehird> all LCDs have that.
23:36:34 <ehird> AnMaster: Anyway, read that file and stop being duped.
23:36:54 <ehird> " With this much light in the room, there is no difference between 500:1 and 10000:1 Contrast Ratio!"
23:36:56 <ehird> (talking about a single candle)
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23:37:00 <ehird> So not even 800:1.
23:38:58 <ehird> However, two things.
23:39:11 <ehird> Firstly, I find it incredibly unlikely that you are using your computer under ZERO lighting conditions.
23:39:23 <ehird> Secondly, I find it incredibly unlikely that you have the spectacular vision required to distinguish such things.
23:39:35 <ehird> even with barely any lighting at all, contrast ratios still don't matter.
23:39:57 <ehird> (Apart from ridiculously low ones that don't exist in any display like 50:1.)
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23:55:10 <AnMaster> what I'm really missing is a wider gamut
23:55:20 <AnMaster> yes I know that means less details with 8 bits per pixel
23:56:16 <AnMaster> but I want 16 bits per channel and a wide gamut monitor
23:56:35 <AnMaster> ehird, nah, I'm allergic to them
23:57:47 <AnMaster> btw there is actually some music with beat that I like. Not a lot, but some.
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23:59:59 <ehird> (a) That is not a non-sequitur, (b) I care and (c) this is not sarcastic.