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00:36:52 <ehird> You really are a LOLCoder at heart.
00:36:56 <ehird> That's the dumbest idea I've heard today.
00:36:58 <ehird> And I hear a lot of dumb ideas.
00:37:15 <Batmanifestdesti> it's a lot like photobucket, only the pictures are programs! :D
00:37:40 <ehird> (a) forums suck, (b) the potential userbase is about 3 people, (c) "general discussion"? fuckin' serious? why does everything have a useless forum? (d) that analogy is as bad as xkcd's tvtropes/rickrolling one.
00:37:45 <ehird> Get off my lawn. Damn kids.
00:38:04 <ehird> Oops, I just broke your rule #1.
00:38:11 <ehird> (Either once or twice depending on how you define swearing...)
00:38:42 <ehird> Batmanifestdesti: they rarely conduct information and are mostly vents for useless crap. ok, so is IRC, but it's realtime, where such crap is expected
00:39:23 <ehird> 11. No demeaning other ideas/beliefs/religions: If you're a televangelist that wants everyone to be saved, then that's jolly for you, but don't go around telling people that they're going to burn in the fiery pits just because that are a Muslim, or Australian, or something else. This rule is related to flaming. Please don't confuse this with "don't post about anything related to your religion or lack thereof," because sometimes these conversations can be
00:39:25 <ehird> fun and enlightening, all that this means is that if John or Jane Doe mentions that they're Mormon, don't send angry posts demanding to know why they joined that "devil church."
00:39:29 <ehird> i can totally see people evangelizing on forums about Piet.
00:39:46 <ehird> [if I'm offending you, take comfort in the fact that I'm the grumpiest person in here.]
00:40:13 <Batmanifestdesti> on a forum about DOOM modding, a guy demanded to know why mormons, muslims, and buddhists existed
00:40:54 <ehird> Because God made them in his image!
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00:41:03 <ehird> God has some serious cognitive dissonance goin' on.
00:41:10 <Batmanifestdesti> which just goes to show you that religious or ideological discrimination happens everywhere
00:41:35 <ehird> What about me? I wantonly bash every religious ideology that exists.
00:41:39 <ehird> Is it okay if I'm fair and balanced?
00:42:00 <ehird> I wasn't replying.
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04:47:49 <augur> hello Batmanifestdesti
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05:32:53 * Sgeo tried Omegle once
05:32:58 <Sgeo> Wish there was a way to get back in touch
05:33:06 <Sgeo> I don't like losing touch with people, ever
05:33:09 <Sgeo> Batmanifestdesti, o.O
06:32:26 <CESSMASTER> i once tried copy and pasting one omegle conversation to another, as some sort of omegle eavesdropping thing
06:32:39 <CESSMASTER> took them about 3 minutes to start cybering
06:49:40 <fizziew> AnMaster: Yes, y=0 is indeed unreasonable; I think it should work (at least) for any x >= 0, y >= 1. Though you get overflowy problems if that (x+y-1) happens to be over your max-value, which won't happen for the divide-modulo-if thing.
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07:40:10 <AnMaster> fizziew, overflow may be a real issue here.
07:40:23 <AnMaster> so I'm sticking to the variant I decided on.
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09:06:06 <Warrigal> Went on Omegle. The first guy I met was a Jewish guy in Israel; he told me about his experiences in the army and stuff like that.
09:06:16 <Warrigal> It appears that we talked for over an hour.
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09:37:49 <fizzie> Incidentally, even the "a = x/y; b = x%y; return b ? a+1 : a;" you can write as "a = x/y; b = x-a*y; return b ? a+1 : a;" which has one division (well, modulo) switched to multiplication. Though of course optimizations; GCC 4.3 at least seems to be clever enough to get both the x/y and x%y from the same idiv opcode when optimizing. (It even does something extra-clever there.)
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09:43:08 <AnMaster> why do some (all?) TFT monitors "buzz" with a high pitch when the brightness setting isn't at 100?
09:44:20 <AnMaster> fizzie, except as I said I was using C syntax just for clarity. It is a lot simpler than trying to ask it in befunge syntax :P
09:45:52 <AnMaster> even if you know befunge, not everyone do in the channel. Asking in a more "mainstream" language syntax when the question isn't directly related to the esolang in question seems to work best IME.
09:46:32 <fizzie> Oh. Though in that case the time spent in the additional "-" operation and moving the IP around and instruction-fetching might eat any speed gains you could concievably get by changing a / into a *.
09:47:01 <AnMaster> fizzie, the fact that it is befunge is bound to slow it down (unless you start working on jitfunge again! ;P)
09:48:12 <fizzie> Ngh. Not before the things-with-deadlines are over, at least.
09:48:41 <AnMaster> fizzie, so around the age of 65 then? ;P
09:49:57 <fizzie> Maybe after I've gotten that master's thesis done. (So... Sep/Oct hopefully.)
09:50:28 <AnMaster> fizzie, what do you plan to do after that otherwise? Continue studying or getting a job?
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09:53:08 <fizzie> No clue, really. I think I'll at least apply for one of those graduate-school funding opportunities; I've sort of been promised employment here at the university if I get one of those places. Maybe otherwise too, but it's a bit unclear. The project from whose budget my salary is paid ends this year.
09:53:49 <fizzie> Of course a real job would pay real money, instead of the pittance we get here.
09:53:59 <fizzie> But then I'd have to do real work too. :p
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10:14:37 <coppro> holy crap I got digested
10:16:20 <Ilari> The buzz is caused by audio-frequcy-range chopped electrical signals being converted somehow to sounds.
10:17:23 <Ilari> Those signals also supply power so they are rather powerful.
10:22:05 <Ilari> Not the worst device design screwup I have heard about...
10:27:38 <Ilari> The mechanism that dimming is usually implemented is that power electronics are used to chop the power supply and then the signal is lowpass-filtered somewhere. Unfortunately, the signal-to-sound conversion can happen before lowpass filtering or the lowpass filtering might be less than perfect.
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10:51:52 <fizzie> Reasonably recent, then.
10:52:01 <coppro> is this the befunge with the stack stack?
10:52:07 <AnMaster> just missing a few revisions, including the CR correction bug.
10:52:15 <fizzie> What do you return for 4y in bzr-built things?
10:52:25 <AnMaster> s/correction bug/bug correction/
10:52:52 <AnMaster> fizzie, same, I have been too lazy to set up something in the build system to automatically find revision
10:54:50 <fizzie> Did you have a '93 compatibility mode in cfunge, or was that just efunge or something else?
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10:55:39 <AnMaster> fizzie, only in cfunge, but I never claimed it was very good. It only alters the semantics for spaces in strings.
10:55:51 <AnMaster> doesn't make instructions not in 93 reflect.
10:56:03 <AnMaster> and I'm probably going to drop that mode.
10:57:45 <AnMaster> hm what is the best way to get 2^31-1 in befunge?
10:57:50 <fizzie> Well, I don't think the 93 spec defined anything for undefined ops.
10:58:20 <fizzie> Put it in the playfield and use ...g for it, that's the shortest thing.
10:58:32 <AnMaster> fizzie, right, but this is a one-time use so...
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10:59:41 <fizzie> !befunge98 88*::*:**:1-+
10:59:44 <coppro> AnMaster: looking at the efunge code right now, I see you match [_|_] a lot - is that to avoid empty lists?
10:59:57 <fizzie> !befunge98 88*::*:**:1-+.a,@
11:00:11 <fizzie> I don't claim it's the shortest one, though.
11:00:13 <AnMaster> coppro, in what specific place?
11:00:48 <AnMaster> coppro, Ah yes indeed, That is after all user provided data, better make sure it is reasonable :P
11:01:10 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "PXIF"4(n284*1-R1-.a,@
11:01:14 * coppro starts poking around efunge, which has to be better-coded than his horrible Erlang messes
11:01:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, core instructions only :)
11:01:45 <AnMaster> coppro, I was learning erlang as I coded it. So some parts are pretty bad
11:02:00 <AnMaster> some of that code I wouldn't write today
11:02:00 <coppro> well, you have -specs on yours, for starters
11:02:19 <coppro> I was learning Erlang too, and I haven't actually gotten back to it.
11:02:21 <AnMaster> coppro, yes, because I always preferred detecting bugs before I run the app.
11:03:38 <AnMaster> and if that isn't possible, at least catch them early on. Which might explain some matches like {_X,_Y} = Coord
11:04:02 <coppro> oh, yeah, that's where I'm looking
11:04:07 <coppro> should be more specific
11:04:11 <coppro> wondering what that is for
11:04:53 <fizzie> Oh, and if you can assume ASCII, you can trivially replace the 88* with '@ to save one character...
11:05:07 <fizzie> Deewiant: I hates you! I had written that much and then you ruined it.
11:05:23 <Deewiant> Oh, I didn't even notice your solution earlier
11:05:54 <fizzie> I use :1-+ instead of that 2*1- but it's otherwise pretty close.
11:05:55 <Deewiant> Well, at least I'm being a bit more different in that I do 2*1- instead of :1-+
11:06:18 <fizzie> Stop being such a thought-vampire.
11:07:09 <Deewiant> If you don't mind using a bit of nontextual data you can do '<256>
11:07:14 <Deewiant> But I guess you do so I won't bother
11:07:56 <fizzie> Also <256> is tricky if you only have a non-locale-aware [0, 255]-bytes-as-input thing.
11:07:58 <AnMaster> coppro, ah yes it is for fingerprint semantics stacks
11:08:06 <fizzie> A "thompire" sounds like one of those block-like things that drop from the ceiling and squish Mario, except edgier.
11:08:11 <AnMaster> which is when you do like "PXIF"4(
11:08:45 <Deewiant> '<255>1+ might be better though, not sure
11:08:48 <AnMaster> actually my input needs to be valid utf-8 as well as ASCII
11:09:05 <AnMaster> so I'll go for '@::*:**2*1-.a,@
11:09:05 <fizzie> Well, the '@ is rather nice.
11:09:13 <fizzie> Certainly it's more interesting than a silly 88*.
11:10:01 <fizzie> The :/* sequence in 8:*::*:**:1-+ is aesthetically pleasing, though.
11:11:28 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "@@@@@@"+****1-.a,@
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11:12:19 <AnMaster> coppro, did that explanation help? I'm afraid you have to know funge-98 to understand fingerprints.
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11:14:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that seems a bit strange to me
11:14:15 <AnMaster> !befunge98 '~2+:::::******.a,@
11:14:17 <AnMaster> !befunge98 '~2+:::::::::::******.a,@
11:15:37 <fizzie> If you want a differently shaped version, you can use
11:15:56 <fizzie> It runs that :*: part both ways, which is always nice.
11:16:29 <Deewiant> (Not sure if it can be made nice though)
11:16:35 <fizzie> But 'v is a ugly number. Well, I guess I could try.
11:24:37 <fizzie> I don't think I can make a 118-based calculation very pretty. Though if you can enter the block using the v direction, you can do something like
11:25:33 <fizzie> Maybe for symmetricity the lower > should be a [ too.
11:27:54 <AnMaster> hm what is the smartest way in befunge to check that a possibly unsorted list on the stack contains exactly a given set of elements. For example the stack might have 5 7 3 9 7 7 and I want to check that there is exactly those elements on it, but ignoring order of them.
11:30:54 <Deewiant> for each element of list { for each element2 of set { if element == element2 goto Next } fail Next: } success
11:32:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, Not sure how to translate that into befunge...
11:33:03 <Deewiant> Depends on how/where your list/set are stored
11:35:38 <Deewiant> > ;if no more list elems, success; ;get list elem; > ;if no more set elems, fail; ;get set elem; -#v_ ;same - jump to beginning of this line;
11:35:40 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `;'
11:35:53 <Deewiant> The v goes to get another set elem
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11:59:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the length of the list is known
11:59:16 <AnMaster> (sorry got a phone call so was away)
12:00:14 <AnMaster> basically I want to verify in a test suite for ATHR that a specific call to an instruction pushes a specific list on the stack, but where the ordering is unknown.
12:05:40 <AnMaster> somewhat like mycorand I think
12:08:50 <Deewiant> Just fill in the blanks (most of it)...
12:11:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I suspect what I have in mind results in less code. Not sure though.
12:12:19 <fizzie> Though it doesn't work for the multiset case; if the list is (7, 7, 7) and the multiset contains (7, 8, 9) it will succeed. I'm not sure if that was the case with the question.
12:13:52 <AnMaster> 5 7 3 9 7 7 is ok, so is for example 3 5 9 7 7 7 or 7 9 3 7 5 7, but not 7 9 3 5 or 7 7 9 3 5
12:15:53 <Deewiant> Then just remove the element from the multiset whenever you find it
12:16:12 <AnMaster> my idea is to use j to create a jump table, then increment a counter in funge space for each hit, then after all elements are processed, check that the counters are correct.
12:18:23 <AnMaster> !befunge98 02-;<;j @,a.2 ;@,a.1
12:18:34 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
12:18:47 <AnMaster> !befunge98 01-;<;j @,a.2 ;@,a.1
12:18:51 <AnMaster> !befunge98 03-;<;j @,a.2 ;@,a.1
12:19:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does that make any sense to you?
12:19:24 <AnMaster> (does mycology test negative arguments to j?)
12:19:56 <fizzie> Sure; unless you hit exactly that < character, you're going to hit one of the @s before outputting anything.
12:20:12 <AnMaster> fizzie, but shouldn't -2 to j hit the <
12:20:36 <fizzie> I guess it depends on where/when the delta is added. I don't remember the spec by heart.
12:21:18 <AnMaster> fizzie, "Negative values are legal arguments for j, such that 04-j@ is an infinite loop." is all the spec says
12:22:04 <fizzie> "If there is a 1 on the stack, j will work like # does." In this case it sort of makes sense that you need a -3 to hit the <, i.e. the next instruction is k*delta from the position after the j, not the j itself.
12:22:24 <AnMaster> (that differs with regards to wrapping yes)
12:22:34 <AnMaster> (in fact, j when wrapping is quite a headache
12:23:09 <EgoBot> FATAL: Out of memory at [/home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds/interps/cfunge/cfunge-src/src/stack.c:90]:
12:23:17 <fizzie> Deewiant: You're not actually printing that x, you know.
12:23:55 <Deewiant> !befunge98 ;@,,ax'<;06-j'ya,,@
12:24:55 <AnMaster> Asztal, using what interpreter?
12:25:12 <AnMaster> !befunge98 ;@,a,x'<;06-j'ya,,@
12:26:10 <AnMaster> anyway a program with exactly 04-j@ does not loop forever in cfunge *debugs*
12:26:31 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Mycology does test it.
12:26:39 <Asztal> AnMaster: it's called stinkhorn now. to be honest, it's not very good, but it should support j properly
12:26:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I get all GOOD in mycology
12:26:56 <Deewiant> Then you're doing something weird :-)
12:27:17 <Deewiant> !befunge98 ;@,a,x'<;06-j'y,a,@
12:27:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it is related to wrapping
12:27:45 <Deewiant> There's no wrapping in that code
12:29:42 <fizzie> Anyway, I'm not quite sure what the jump table is for in that stack-multiset-element thing. If your elements are small integers (like what you'd think is the case if you're using a jump table there) then you could directly use them as x offsets to increment counters in the playfield, then compare the row-with-counters to another row which holds the desired multiset in that representation.
12:30:21 <fizzie> x-dimension offsets, for p/g.
12:32:02 <Deewiant> AnMaster: There is no wrapping in that code.
12:32:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, sure the test in mycology isn't buggy in some way?
12:33:47 <Deewiant> How would I know, haven't looked at it in months
12:34:05 <Deewiant> I doubt it, given that other interpreters are happy with it
12:34:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, btw: http://pastebin.ca/1496943
12:35:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh and mycology says:
12:35:04 <AnMaster> GOOD: 04-j jumps backward the right number of cells
12:35:15 <ehird> 08:43 AnMaster: why do some (all?) TFT monitors "buzz" with a high pitch when the brightness setting isn't at 100?
12:35:16 <ehird> only low quality ones
12:35:34 <fizzie> Mycology's "04-j" test might not be at the left border of the file, though.
12:35:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Like said, you do something weird.
12:35:55 <ehird> 09:14 coppro: holy crap I got digested
12:35:59 <AnMaster> fizzie, yes, as far as I understand j there crosses the border
12:36:24 <Deewiant> AnMaster: There is no wrapping in that code.
12:36:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, 01-j for example would as far as I understand hit the - right?
12:36:46 <fizzie> No, it would hit the j itself.
12:36:53 <fizzie> Because "0jx" hits the x.
12:37:03 <AnMaster> that explains a bit of what is happening
12:38:07 <ehird> i had a dream where AnMaster was talking about how Kucinich personally tutored him or something.
12:38:38 <ehird> Dennis Kucinich, the only left-wing politician in America.
12:38:42 <ehird> (Modulo hyperbole.)
12:39:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the code for j is http://pastebin.ca/1496948 btw
12:39:31 <fizzie> You might get wrapping in "04-j" if you implement j so that when the IP is still at j you add that -4*delta, in which case you would go to the position one left of the 0, then rely on the normal +delta movement from there. And cared about the borders in the -4*delta part.
12:39:35 * AnMaster wonder what broke with wrapping
12:40:01 <AnMaster> fizzie, correct, the ip is moved forward normally after always.
12:41:14 <AnMaster> fizzie, it doesn't match how other instructions work, if you move before actually executing the side effects of the instruction
12:41:39 <fizzie> Well, what does your ip_forward do when x=3, delta.x=-4, and the left border of the playfield is at x=0?
12:41:44 <Deewiant> The spec is explicit in this case, though.
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12:43:07 <AnMaster> fizzie, hm... Don't ask me such tricky questions. But when delta isn't cardinal, wrapping is implemented as the wrapping algorithm in the spec (that is, reverse ip, go on to other edge, reverse again)
12:47:17 <AnMaster> ok I changed behaviour, and now it gets into some infinite loop *sometimes* after "GOOD: z doesn't reflect", but not on all runs. Huh
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12:49:05 <fizzie> So... what I think happens there with "04-j@" is that when you call ip_forward with x=3, delta.x=-4, you'd be attempting to pass to the empty space and would do the backtrack-warping; setting delta.x=4 temporarily, and starting from x=3. Then you're already at the other edge (only whitespace from x=7 and so on) so you stop with the backtrack there. After that your j resets the delta to x=1, and execution proceeds to the @.
12:51:18 <AnMaster> but the new behaviour of failing sometimes is rather weird. Especially since ? hasn't been used at all by that point. Valgrind reports no issues either.
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13:17:37 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH6r2tIaRXU // needs hooking up to a visor
13:31:15 <ehird> to send to ais523 when he comes on: wikipedians are arguing over whether to include the public domain rorschach test images on the article ... because it would make it harder for psychologists to use them, or something. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rorschach_test
13:32:05 <ehird> meanwhile, http://pouletvous.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/rorschach_inkblots.jpg
13:34:55 <ehird> not as though the test works any more than say, astrology :)
13:35:44 <ehird> http://truthsilo.com/stds/rorschach.htm
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13:40:13 <ehird> "mentioning more than four sex images in the ten plates is diagnostic of schizophrenia"
13:40:36 <fizzie> #scheme people had that bot which understood "later tell <nick> [some interesting things]", which would then say "<nick>: [some interesting things]" at the point when <nick> joined or next said something.
13:43:08 <ehird> lambdabot: tell ais523 wikipedians are arguing over whether to include the public domain rorschach test images on the article ... because it would make it harder for psychologists to use them, or something. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rorschach_test
13:43:12 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
13:43:15 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
13:43:39 <ehird> @tell ais523 wikipedians are arguing over whether to include the public domain rorschach test images on the article ... because it would make it harder for psychologists to use them, or something. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rorschach_test :not as though the test works any more than say, astrology :D not as though the test works any more than say, astrology...
13:44:42 <fizzie> So what's the "yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw" command from "quote" do?
13:44:54 <ehird> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
13:44:59 <ehird> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
13:45:01 <ehird> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
13:45:09 <ehird> Deewiant: looks to be running random haskell code to me
13:45:11 <ehird> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
13:45:13 <ehird> @help yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
13:45:20 <ehird> well, let's look at the source.
13:45:38 <ehird> "v" -> rand notoriousV
13:45:39 <ehird> "yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw"
13:45:39 <ehird> -> rand notoriousV
13:46:21 <ehird> someone decrypt http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/State/quote :P
13:46:35 <ehird> > let v = show v in v :: Maybe Char
13:46:36 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Types.Char'
13:47:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm going to release a new cfunge version soon (today possibly). Since it only contains bug fixes and cfunge seems pretty mature now, I'm going to jump version to 1.0.0-pre1
13:47:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, do you have any good suggestion how to differentiate 1.0.0 and 1.0.0-pre1 in the version reported by y?
13:48:49 <AnMaster> ehird, um it is reported as a single integer joining the components
13:49:21 <Deewiant> Just call it 0.9.9 or something...
13:49:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, shouldn't it be 100 rather than 10000 ? for 1.0.0 anyway? I don't do more than three "normal" components. (and possibly -pre<n>, as I did for 0.2.1-pre2 for example)
13:49:57 <AnMaster> ehird, the idea is that a newer version should have a higher number
13:50:21 <fizzie> I would probably go with 1.0.0 == 10000 too, and anything below that for pre-x. Since you're not doing a for-real-0.99.x series, maybe 9900+X for 1.0.0-preX.
13:50:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: If you want 100 to be 1.0.0, then 1.0.0-pre1 will have to be <= 99 which doesn't make much sense to me
13:50:24 <ehird> AnMaster: that'll break 41.0
13:50:31 <ehird> so your version numbering sux anyway
13:50:55 <AnMaster> 1 cell containing the implementation's version number (env).
13:50:55 <AnMaster> If the version number contains points, they're stripped. v2.01 == 201, v1.03.05 = 10305, v1.5g = 1507. Don't use non-numbers in the version number to indicate 'personalizations' - change the handprint instead.
13:51:04 <ehird> AnMaster: it would break 4.1, though.
13:51:28 <AnMaster> ehird, you mean it would break 4.1.0 ? Ok I was wrong. 41.0 would be 41.0.0 thus 4100
13:53:57 <fizzie> If you're sure you don't end up with 1.0.10 at any point, you can do x.y.z => xyz; in that case you're probably going to have to use 91, 92, 93... for 1.0.0-pre1 and so on. Maybe that won't matter if you're not doing a 0.9.x series.
13:54:38 <fizzie> Alternatively just call the "1.0.0-pre1" 0.9.1 externally too.
13:55:02 <Deewiant> You can do x.y.z -> xyz anyway.
13:55:38 <Deewiant> You'll only be screwed if you then go to 200 for 2.0.0.
13:56:17 <fizzie> Well, yes, I guess so, but then the change from version -> "4y" conversion comes at a rather awkward does-not-show-much-of-forethough place.
13:57:47 <Deewiant> It doesn't matter since you can't possibly know for sure anyway
13:58:02 <Deewiant> Ostensibly you can hit 1.0.100, 1.0.1000, etc.
14:00:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you could encode them like Gödel would have done.
14:00:34 <ehird> …thus showing that AnMaster doesn't understand what Gödel's paper was about.
14:01:09 <ehird> .....................................................................................
14:01:18 <Deewiant> An encoding which preserves a total ordering?
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14:01:26 <ehird> Ooh, you used the fancy ellipsis character too, even for >3 dots.
14:01:30 <ehird> I like that. I do that sometimes.
14:01:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that might be a problem though
14:06:18 <GregorR> I just noticed that it's compose-.-. for me :P
14:08:41 <fizzie> Is that even theoretically possible, to define a mapping from three integers (x, y, z) to one such that E(0, 0, x1) < E(0, 1, x2) for any x1, x2? It doesn't sound very likely, since given k=E(0,1,x2)-E(0,0,x1) you get E(0,0,x1+k+1) > E(0,1,x2) which is a contradiction.
14:10:05 <AnMaster> fizzie, hm... isn't two bignums enough storage for TC iirc? I think someone said it in here
14:10:08 <fizzie> Well, an injective function.
14:10:18 <GregorR> fizzie: You didn't say that :P
14:10:45 <fizzie> Sure you can store (x, y, z) in one integer (with the standard prime-exponent-thing for example) but that doesn't have that ordering property.
14:11:39 <AnMaster> fizzie, was that a reply to my last comment about two bignums?
14:12:00 <fizzie> Sort-of, yes. In the sense that you can encode an arbitrary sequence of integers as a single integer.
14:13:17 <AnMaster> fizzie, right, so if a language with two bignums is TC, then you obviously will have to be able to implement a bignum brainfuck in it (minus IO of course). That means several arbitrary ordered integers to encode in one number as far as I can see?
14:14:05 <AnMaster> s/arbitrary ordered integers/ordered arbitrary integers/
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14:15:17 <fizzie> Yes yes but you need the result of the encoding to have that particular property, that if, say, the second integer of first sequence is larger than the second integer of the second sequence, then the first encoding is larger than the second encoding no matter what the rest of the sequence is.
14:15:57 <AnMaster> fizzie, ah right, forgot that bit... hm
14:16:12 <fizzie> Which will not be possible, since there's only a finite amount of numbers between the two encodings, yet you need to stick a countably-infinite number of encodings between them.
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14:24:58 <fizzie> I think we had a Scheme exercise about pairs-as-integers, or maybe it's in SICP; (define (cons a b) (* (expt 3 a) (expt 2 b))) and (define (car p) (if (= (remainder p 3) 0) (+ 1 (car (/ p 3))) 0)) and similarly for cdr gives a working system, though the numbers get rather big.
14:25:02 <fizzie> I think it's in SICP, actually.
14:29:11 <fizzie> Yes, exercise 2.5. Big numbers: http://pastebin.com/m2bdcc079
14:30:06 <fizzie> I was barely able to make the list (1 2 1); the list (1 2 3) gave a heap overflow error.
14:34:44 <ehird> fizzie: does your university thng still use sicpi
14:35:17 <fizzie> Not really, except there's this special summer course about it.
14:35:27 <fizzie> http://www.cs.hut.fi/~scheme/course-description.html
14:35:54 <ehird> that sucks, i thought you said they still did
14:35:55 <fizzie> The mandatory programming-basics courses haven't used SICP since 2003 or so.
14:36:23 <fizzie> Well, they did when I did them, but that was the last time. Completely not related, of course.
14:39:08 <AnMaster> fizzie, why would anyone think it was related? It seems strange that you felt the urge to point it out... Hmmm ;P
14:39:41 <fizzie> It definitely wasn't the case that the negative-quality of the Scheme code I wrote made their heads implode.
14:40:14 <AnMaster> fizzie, So that event didn't affect their decision then?
14:40:48 <AnMaster> wait, misread it. My response doesn't work.
14:42:28 <ehird> fizzie: see if you said yes they do do sicp then i'd have made a bet for a million dollars* that i'd be there in 2013 and you still would be, growing moldy and crinkly :D
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14:42:56 <fizzie> I can retcon my answer to "yes" if you want, though that won't actually make them start use it.
14:44:32 <ehird> are you at all crinkly and/or moldy at the moment?
14:44:38 <ehird> i'm calculating my probability here
14:45:03 <fizzie> I think there's some mold growing in my pile of stuff on the table, yes.
14:45:11 <ehird> i... don't think that counts as "you"
14:46:44 <fizzie> I'm sure I can get some good mold going by 2013 if I just put in the effort.
14:47:07 <ehird> try really hard not to umm graduate or whatever you said you still haven't done a while ago.
14:47:21 <ehird> wait why would you try and lose a bet
14:47:22 <ehird> that makes no sense
14:48:13 <fizzie> It's not like graduating would necessarily get me out of here. In fact I'm not sure what it would take. Possibly some sort of an explosive charge.
14:52:11 <Pthingg> where is your endless money pit
14:53:30 <ehird> Pthingg: i think it costs money to live outside of a university too. :P
14:54:48 <fizzie> I work as a research assistant here at the university, so they're paying me for being here, chatting around on #esoteric. Well, maybe not exactly for that.
15:00:34 -!- oklopol has joined.
15:01:23 <oklopol> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
15:04:54 <fizzie> ^bf >,[>,]<[<]>.[>[.>]<<[.<]>]!oklopol
15:04:54 <fungot> oklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkoklopolopolkokl ...
15:06:41 <oklopol> i couldn't deduce the algo from the output right away
15:06:51 <oklopol> i really think i'm getting stupider
15:08:12 <fizzie> How is it his fault, then?
15:08:38 <oklopol> he told me statistically speaking people get stupider with age.
15:11:49 <fizzie> If you hadn't heard it, you'd be getting smarter and smarter all the time?
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15:15:26 <ehird> fizzie: is that repeated scrambley
15:15:54 <fizzie> I don't remember scrambley; that's just a bouncy-bouncy.
15:16:02 <fizzie> ^bf >,[>,]<[<]>.[>[.>]<<[.<]>]!12345
15:16:02 <fungot> 123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543 ...
15:16:39 <fizzie> I just read oklopol backwards and it sounded funny.
15:17:07 <oklopol> i just basically looked at it
15:17:23 <oklopol> i think it sounds rather boring
15:19:26 <ehird> ^bf >,[>,]+[-<[.<]>[.>]+]!12345
15:19:27 <fungot> 543211234554321123455432112345543211234554321123455432112345543211234554321123455432112345543211234554321123455432112345543211234554321123455432112345543211234554321123455432112345543211234554321123455432112 ...
15:19:31 -!- oklopol has changed nick to opolopololpokok.
15:19:49 <ehird> ^bf >,[>,]+[-[.<]>[.>]+]!12345
15:19:51 <fungot> 123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512345123451234512 ...
15:20:00 <ehird> ^bf >,[>,]+[-<[.<]>>[.>]+]!12345
15:20:01 <fungot> 543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345543212345 ...
15:20:08 <ehird> ^bf >,[>,]+[-<<[.<]>>[.>]+]!12345
15:20:09 <fungot> 432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234543212345432123454321234 ...
15:21:11 <ehird> can't golf it shorter than fizzie
15:21:28 <ehird> pipe mine to tail +n
15:22:27 <ehird> fizzie: how does yours work? too lazy to read it
15:23:23 <fizzie> It's just (read to tape), (seek to beginning), loop: {(print forwards), (print backwards)} with a bit of extra <>.s here and there to avoid duplicately printing the ends.
15:23:52 <ehird> opolopololpokok: i can write bf but not read others' :D
15:24:24 <ehird> fizzie: yah my reversing the forward/backwards to get it to match fucked up my sentinels :D
15:24:27 <opolopololpokok> imperative languages are always so "extra <>:s here an there", god i hate them
15:24:42 -!- opolopololpokok has changed nick to oklopol.
15:24:52 <ehird> oklopol: but you'd do the analogue of that in haskell xD
15:25:05 <ehird> it's sort of unavoidable when you want to ignore shit
15:25:09 <oklopol> ehird: no worries, i pretty much learned to read other people's code at all last year.
15:25:47 <ehird> brainfuck has never been my forte tbh, i don't match well with a typeless tape of blobs
15:26:11 <oklopol> i'm speaking in general; also who said functional languages are any better
15:26:45 <ehird> oklopol: yah but some things suck less
15:26:54 <ehird> you have to optimize for minimum suck(x)
15:28:22 <oklopol> i need to clean some floors now.
15:29:23 <oklopol> it's my new job, my philosophy is, who cares if it's not the nicest job ever, as long as the money is okay
15:29:41 <oklopol> granted, the money sucks; but at least i got 50% correct
15:30:00 <oklopol> also i just wanted to make that joke, i'd never get a job i don't like.
15:30:22 <GregorR-L> OK, I'm gonna stab you in the jokehole now.
15:31:36 <oklopol> god, it's like you don't like being lied to.
15:31:46 <ehird> oklopol: you never meta-job you don't like
15:31:49 <GregorR-L> I just like stabbing people in jokeholes.
15:34:24 <oklopol> i dislike the whole idea of having a job, i want to do what the fuck i want, not something that's useful
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15:44:33 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: I'm don't that stupid who understand obviously | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
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15:53:04 <oerjan> <ehird> Is it okay if I'm fair and balanced?
15:53:20 <oerjan> to be fair and balanced you have to do the same with atheism, dumbass
15:53:30 <ehird> atheism isn't a religious ideology.
15:54:06 <oerjan> that has nothing to do with how to be fair and balanced.
15:54:44 <oerjan> and if you bash creationists specifically, you need to balance it with some science bashing.
16:00:32 <oerjan> <fizzie> Is that even theoretically possible, to define a mapping from three integers (x, y, z) to one such that E(0, 0, x1) < E(0, 1, x2) for any x1, x2? It doesn't sound very likely, since given k=E(0,1,x2)-E(0,0,x1) you get E(0,0,x1+k+1) > E(0,1,x2) which is a contradiction.
16:00:53 <oerjan> i think that proof is faulty, but the result is true.
16:02:05 <oerjan> or wait. if they are _signed_ integers, then that is actually possible.
16:03:07 <oerjan> you can map all (0,0,x1) to something negative, all (0,1,x2) to something positive, with room to spare for the rest.
16:03:20 <oklopol> basically you need to find an integer both under and over which there's an infinite amount of ints
16:03:28 <oerjan> (btw injective was specified later)
16:03:36 <oklopol> trivially impossible for unsigned, trivially possible for signed
16:05:25 <oklopol> i was thinking switching to math for my master's maybe
16:07:03 <oerjan> iirc then you can actually get (x,y,z) -> w totally order preserving with rationals
16:07:16 <oerjan> and probably not with reals
16:08:16 <oerjan> i was wondering about that
16:08:37 <oerjan> it might be bijection, i don't see an immediate reason why not
16:08:49 <oklopol> i'll probably be a noob for the rest of my life
16:10:17 <ehird> oerjan: i said i was fair and balanced in my bashing of religious ideologies
16:10:49 <pikhq> You're like the KKK in that you're an equal-opportunity hater.
16:10:55 <ehird> <fizzie> Is that even theoretically possible, to define a mapping from three integers (x, y, z) to one such that E(0, 0, x1) < E(0, 1, x2) for any x1, x2? It doesn't sound very likely, since given k=E(0,1,x2)-E(0,0,x1) you get E(0,0,x1+k+1) > E(0,1,x2) which is a contradiction.
16:10:56 <oklopol> for (x,y) you could have x just mean [x-1..x], and then just do 1-1/y for the y part
16:10:57 <oerjan> ah yes whenever you choose the rational to map to you can pick the one with smallest denominator. this gives a bijection since Q x Q x Q has no isolated points
16:11:37 <oklopol> then you could do the same with 1-1/z for the rest of the interval
16:11:43 <ehird> pikhq: that's some broken analogy you got there... mister knights templar
16:11:52 <ehird> okay that was lame
16:12:09 <oerjan> oklopol: i am assuming we start with triples of _rationals_
16:12:09 <oklopol> oerjan: trying to preserve order too
16:12:11 <pikhq> ehird: I like my analogies broken. ^_^
16:12:22 <oklopol> i mean just trying to preserver order
16:12:28 <ehird> pikhq: your analogies are like broken analogies.
16:12:52 <oklopol> embedding base infinity integers into rationals
16:13:23 <ehird> > logBase Infinity 77
16:13:24 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Infinity'
16:13:29 <ehird> > logBase (1/0) 77
16:13:44 <ehird> > logBase (1/0) (1/0)
16:13:46 <oklopol> ehird: how haskell compares tuples.
16:13:50 <ehird> don't you mean "1"
16:14:00 <oerjan> oklopol: lexicographically
16:14:05 <ehird> oklopol: erm all members being equal
16:14:17 <lambdabot> forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool
16:14:38 <ehird> oklopol: i mean (a,b) == (c,d) = a == b && c == d
16:14:54 <oerjan> > sort.join(liftM2(,))$[1..5]
16:14:56 <lambdabot> [(1,1),(1,2),(1,3),(1,4),(1,5),(2,1),(2,2),(2,3),(2,4),(2,5),(3,1),(3,2),(3...
16:15:18 <ehird> peer review/on a pew.
16:15:20 <oklopol> lexicographic ordering is not "base infinity" ordering
16:15:31 <ehird> oklopol: whuzzagottadowithtuples
16:15:34 <oklopol> it is with tuples, because they are the same length
16:15:43 <ehird> oerjan: shouldn't log_infinity(infinity) be 1
16:16:20 <ehird> > map (join logBase) [1..]
16:16:21 <lambdabot> [NaN,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,1....
16:16:23 <oklopol> oerjan: while haskell orders tuples lexicographically, lexicographical ordering isn't how base infinity ordering works
16:16:26 <ehird> oerjan: sure it should be!
16:16:29 <oerjan> if you do limits to infinity with different speeds on the two parts, you can get it to anything
16:16:46 <oklopol> because if you have (1,0) and (5), lexicographical says (5) is bigger
16:17:06 <oklopol> but base infinity says (1,0) is bigger
16:17:13 <oerjan> oklopol: haskell tuples of different length don't have the same type
16:17:30 <oerjan> although you are correct for lists
16:17:39 <ehird> what is this base infinity magic///
16:17:48 <oklopol> oerjan: that's why they are both an example of base infinity ordering and lexicographical ordering
16:18:09 * pikhq sees that, and treats it as a zen koan.
16:18:12 <oerjan> ehird: base ordinal omega, say
16:18:19 <oklopol> so yeah, bad example maybe, but your "lexicographically" comment made no sense.
16:18:23 <ehird> pikhq: yes / represents -
16:18:24 <ehird> :t \f xs -> do x <- xs; return (f x)
16:18:25 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) t b. (Monad m) => (t -> b) -> m t -> m b
16:18:31 <ehird> @hoogle (t -> b) -> m t -> m b
16:18:31 <lambdabot> Data.Traversable fmapDefault :: Traversable t => (a -> b) -> t a -> t b
16:18:31 <lambdabot> Prelude fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
16:18:31 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative (<$>) :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
16:18:57 <ehird> :t \f xs -> do x <- xs; f x
16:18:58 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) t b. (Monad m) => (t -> m b) -> m t -> m b
16:19:06 <Deewiant> ?. pl undo \f xs -> do x <- xs; f x
16:19:11 <oklopol> ehird: oklopol: i mean (a,b) == (c,d) = a == b && c == d <<< talking about comparison, not equality
16:19:14 <ehird> whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
16:19:17 <oerjan> oklopol: btw the theorem on embedding into rationals works with any countable, totally ordered set
16:19:25 <ehird> that's only in the one
16:19:50 <oerjan> and if there are no points isolated from left or right, then i think it can be made a bijection
16:19:58 <Deewiant> sequence = foldr (liftM2 (:)) (return [])
16:20:03 <ehird> pikhq: i just wanted a mapM that worked on non-lists somehow :D
16:20:08 <oklopol> so what are isolated points?
16:20:37 <oklopol> also did you get my point about lexico vs base infinity?
16:20:45 <Deewiant> ?hoogle (a -> m b) -> n a -> m (n b)
16:20:46 <lambdabot> Data.Traversable traverse :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
16:20:46 <lambdabot> Data.Traversable mapM :: (Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b)
16:20:46 <lambdabot> Data.Traversable for :: (Traversable t, Applicative f) => t a -> (a -> f b) -> f (t b)
16:20:54 <ehird> Deewiant: that's not mapM, yo
16:21:00 <oklopol> you start from different directions
16:21:06 <ehird> that has a typeclass dependency
16:21:11 <ehird> i could do it with monad transforms
16:21:27 <oerjan> oklopol: if there is either no or a smallest point y to the right of a point x, then then x is isolated from the right
16:22:06 <Deewiant> > Data.Traversable.traverse Just [1,2,3]
16:23:55 <oklopol> but, what's the embedding?
16:24:12 <ehird> hmm what's the transformer class again?
16:24:13 <oklopol> oerjan: ah yes whenever you choose the rational to map to you can pick the one with smallest denominator. this gives a bijection since Q x Q x Q has no isolated points <<< i don't get this
16:24:19 <oerjan> ehird: Traversables are precisely those things that can be traversed like lists with applicatives
16:25:22 <oerjan> oklopol: you start with a (non-order preserving) bijection f from the natural numbers to Q x Q x Q
16:25:54 <oerjan> then you build a map from Q x Q x Q recursively
16:26:11 <oerjan> call that g : Q x Q x Q -> Q
16:26:20 <oerjan> g(f(0)) = 0, for a start
16:26:45 <ehird> (Monad m, MonadTrans t, Monad (t m)) => (a -> m b) -> t m a -> t m b
16:26:53 <ehird> (Monad m, MonadTrans t, Monad (t m)) => (a -> m a) -> t m a -> t m b
16:26:54 <ehird> (Monad m, MonadTrans t, Monad (t m)) => (a -> m a) -> t m a -> t m a
16:27:23 <oerjan> now for f(n), look at the nearest neighbors to f(n) among f(0)...f(n-1). say f(m) < f(n) < f(o)
16:28:11 <oerjan> then you define g(f(n)) to be the _simplest_ rational between g(f(m)) and g(f(o)) (either might not exist if f(n) is min or max so far
16:29:05 <oklopol> and that's a bijection because there are no isolated points?
16:29:35 <oerjan> this recursively puts everything in order. also if there were no isolated points then there is no way to miss a rational, since you will eventually use up all the simpler ones close to it
16:30:38 <oerjan> simpler means minimal (absolute value of) numerator _and_ denominator
16:31:50 <oklopol> i don't see why the no isolated points assumption is the crucial thing
16:31:56 <oerjan> (i'm not sure it "simple" is actually the right word)
16:31:57 <oklopol> not that i've given it thought
16:33:08 <oerjan> oklopol: say if there is no point between f(m) and f(n). then no matter what you map them to, you are going to miss all rationals between them. similar if there are global mins or maxes.
16:33:32 <oklopol> i mean it seems it's the simplicity ordering that does it
16:34:21 <oerjan> yes, that ensures you don't miss anything _assuming_ you always continue to put new things between all neighbors
16:34:37 <oerjan> and beyond the global min/max
16:39:02 <ehird> oklopol is just going to... eat butter?
16:40:13 <oklopol> well no but i assumed you can guess what i'm going to eat with it, as opposed to the other direction.
16:40:40 <oklopol> nah really it's a long story
16:43:32 <ehird> oklopol: eat the damn butter.
16:44:27 <oerjan> otoh you cannot fit more than countably many intervals into the reals, so mapping reals x reals order-preservingly to reals is impossible
16:45:39 <oerjan> (reason: every interval must contain a rational)
16:48:50 <fizzie> Right, the "given k=E(0,1,x2)-E(0,0,x1) you get E(0,0,x1+k+1) > E(0,1,x2)" thing relied on the fact that also E(0,0,x1) < E(0,0,x2) iff x1 < x2, in addition to the injectiveness. I didn't bother specifying the full set of demands for E.
16:49:15 <ehird> fizzie: did you really have to ask though
16:49:18 <ehird> i mean that's trivially impossible
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16:49:33 <ehird> it's the kind of thing i'd expect AnMaster to ask :P
16:49:37 <ehird> uh oh, now he'll go "?"
16:49:42 <fizzie> That's why "it doesn't sound very likely".
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16:50:02 <ehird> can pigs fly? it doesn't sound very likely :-P
16:50:13 <fizzie> Yes. I can imagine myself saying something like that.
16:50:46 <GregorR-L> ehird: Depends on how powerful the rocket is?
16:51:39 <pikhq> GregorR-L: How unimaginative.
16:51:52 <GregorR-L> ehird: Depends on how powerful the salad is?
16:51:55 <pikhq> Why do you not account for the case of a *jet engine* being strapped on, for example?
16:51:59 <AnMaster> right, I'm not surprised about that netsplit
16:52:01 <AnMaster> I saw part of it from the other side.
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16:55:52 <AnMaster> ehird, I looked in the log for today and I can't find the question that fizzie is supposed to have asked. Just some statements.
16:56:09 <AnMaster> so afraid I can neither confirm or deny if I would have asked said question
16:56:12 <ehird> we're answering ()
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16:58:47 <ehird> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/863786
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17:00:29 <AnMaster> ehird, heh? His firstname I assume?
17:01:41 <ehird> No, his last name.
17:04:58 <AnMaster> oerjan, :D at the sound clip on Darth&Droids today
17:05:18 <AnMaster> (I just read the comics today)
17:28:55 <GregorR-L> I should get my new waterproof cell phone watch with a better camera today whoot
17:31:29 <AnMaster> GregorR, would it be similar to a !, ? or ‽
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17:31:48 <pikhq> Perhaps it could be a ¡ or a ¿
17:31:48 <ehird> w00t is just a silly 1337 version of woot.
17:31:54 <ehird> I've been wooting for wooting ages.
17:32:15 <GregorR-L> But this is all aside from the fact that I should get my new waterproof cell phone watch with a better camera today.
17:32:32 <AnMaster> though I know what woot means I decided to google define: it
17:32:35 <AnMaster> Common misspelling of hoot. Common misspelling of w00t. An exclamation of joy or excitement; I agree
17:32:49 <ehird> I don't give a woot, frankly.
17:32:58 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah, and suggesting that "w00t" is the correct spelling...
17:33:17 <ehird> Uh, w00t? I don't give a hoot.
17:33:40 <AnMaster> bbl for a few hours. Going to driving lesson :)
17:33:56 <ehird> who wants to drive.
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18:04:36 <estoppel> oklofuk: i'ma make that theremin vid now
18:05:25 -!- oklofuk has changed nick to oklofok.
18:07:43 <oerjan> oklofok: it was inevitable, really. just be glad augur wasn't here.
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18:47:08 <estoppel> oklofok: what os are you using atm btw? and is your internet good enough to dl 23mb?
18:51:14 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "t"
18:51:38 <pikhq> @. hoogle type fmap
18:51:40 <lambdabot> --count=20 "forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
18:53:05 <estoppel> http://lesswrong.com/lw/12s/the_strangest_thing_an_ai_could_tell_you/xc5 ← this is awesome enough that i want it to be true
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18:55:50 <estoppel> i made a video of me repeatedly lunging a long, narrow part of my body at things, but only oklofok can see it.
18:56:32 <augur> slereah: obviously not
18:56:56 <augur> i was about to make that joke anyway
18:57:02 <augur> what with estoppel being 13 and all
18:57:06 <augur> but slereah, you know.
18:57:22 <oerjan> and he isn't even a straight man
18:57:50 <oerjan> i was referring to Slereah
18:58:37 <Slereah> <augur> but slereah, you know. < wot
18:59:12 <oerjan> augur is confusing you with his awesome syntax powers.
18:59:15 <augur> BUT SLEREAH, YOU KNOW, IS ALL OVER THAT 13 YEAR OLD COCK LIKE FASTER THAN I AN REPLY
18:59:51 * GregorR-L hands Slereah his "honorary NAMBLA member" jersey
19:01:16 <oerjan> hm my monitor has a bug
19:02:14 <estoppel> no oerjan. if your monitor displayed weird stuff that's a software or hardware bug
19:02:52 <oerjan> must be an AGI then, since it was capable of flying away
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20:01:42 <Slereah> Have you read your SICP today?
20:05:31 <estoppel> [[Developer mode can be accessed from the launcher screen of the Pre by typing in the phrase "upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart" (the infamous Konami code).]
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20:21:54 <AnMaster> estoppel / ehird: why that nick?
20:22:05 <estoppel> I've used it sporadically for ages.
20:22:25 <AnMaster> estoppel, I noticed it a few days ago. How do you pronounce it btw?
20:22:55 <oerjan> he's been estopped from using his real name, due to child protection laws
20:22:59 <estoppel> ĕ-stŏp'əl, says the conspicuously unsourced answers.com
20:23:12 <estoppel> ess toppel, where the e is eh not ee.
20:23:17 <oerjan> a sad and unreasonable story
20:23:30 <pikhq> estoppel: Don't do answers.com; use Wikipedia, it's principal source. ;p
20:23:39 <estoppel> pikhq: *its; and you are wrong.
20:23:45 <estoppel> Wikipedia is ONE OF the sources of answers.com.
20:23:47 <AnMaster> estoppel, is it supposed to mean anything?
20:23:56 <estoppel> AnMaster: justfuckinggoogleit.com
20:24:13 <oerjan> hey, wikipedia is a _tertiary_ source, iirc
20:24:18 <fizzie> (ɛ'stɒpəl) says the equally unsourced OED.
20:24:48 <fizzie> Or "({ope}{sm}st{rfa}p{schwa}l)" if I copy-paste directly.
20:25:07 <fizzie> They do IPA characters with tiny images.
20:25:23 <estoppel> You have an online OED accessthingy?
20:25:49 <fizzie> "Subscriber: Helsinki University of Technology"
20:26:33 <oerjan> "He worked for the Oxford English Dictionary from 1918, and is credited with having worked on a number of words starting with the letter W, including walrus, over which he struggled mightily." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien)
20:27:55 <fizzie> There's this thing where one can add ".libproxy.tkk.fi" at the end of the domain name, login using the Shibboleth single-sign-on thing, and get any library-subscribed content without having to fiddle with SSH tunnels or such curiosities.
20:27:59 <estoppel> fizzie: now i want to attend that university.
20:28:26 <fizzie> I would assume OED is a rather widely-subscribed thing.
20:28:34 <estoppel> AnMaster: did i mention i had a dream where you were talking about being tutored to personally by kucinich?
20:28:38 <augur> estoppel: Q? really?
20:28:55 <estoppel> that was not from a british site. :p
20:29:37 <oerjan> craziness happens easily to brittle minds
20:29:39 <augur> which is expected; british english has Q.
20:30:09 <augur> EstQp@l <--- there
20:30:44 <fizzie> But I said (ɛ'stɒpəl), the ɒ is "latin small letter turned alpha", aka low back rounded vowel; not a q.
20:31:16 <augur> Q is sampa for turned a
20:31:32 <augur> q, on the other hand, is sampa for q.
20:31:49 <fizzie> I can't read that notation. :/
20:32:03 <AnMaster> yet augur wants us all to learn to
20:32:09 <augur> think of it like an esolang!
20:32:23 <AnMaster> augur, I don't plan to learn every esolang
20:33:29 <Slereah> I'm pretty sure every esolang put together has less instructions than a regular programming language
20:33:31 <augur> just think of how wonderfully esoteric it would be t+h bi eI)b@l t+h@ t+haI)p laIk DIs @nd h{v p+hip@5 Vnd3`st{_rnd ju!
20:34:20 <estoppel> unikitten will be made one day
20:34:25 <estoppel> once someone makes a strictly monospaced unicode font
20:35:47 <augur> ɛstɑpəl: ɪts kʰɔld lusɪdə gɹænd tʍɛɫv
20:36:18 <Slereah> estoppel : How do you make a monospaced empty character?
20:36:29 <augur> slereah: with magic. :o
20:36:37 <estoppel> Slereah: — modulo special characters, of course.
20:38:49 <estoppel> I should found a university with a focus on not using shitty things like Shibboleth.
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20:44:22 <estoppel> It seems my thereminning was for naught, as oklopol has disappeared.
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21:52:13 <estoppel> "yep! i have seen people with 2 iphones.
21:52:13 <estoppel> i guess thats the only way they can really multitask for now."
21:52:30 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
21:53:03 <ais523> I didn't know lambdabot did that
21:53:09 <ais523> also, why did it announce in-channel?
21:53:27 <estoppel> as opposed to noticing later "oh, a new tab with lambdabot on it"
21:53:41 <ais523> a new tab that turns red and makes the IRC client flash at me?
21:54:07 <GregorR> At least it didn't announce the content in the channel :P
21:54:17 <estoppel> GregorR: even though i sent it in channel :P
21:54:23 <ais523> an IRC client that doesn't do nickpings is kind-of rubbish
21:54:30 <GregorR> (Which I assume is "hey ais i think ur hot lets cyber", because what else would a person send via lambdabot)
21:54:57 <estoppel> ais523: some people like to not be bothered
21:55:16 <estoppel> GregorR: 13:43 ehird: @tell ais523 wikipedians are arguing over whether to include the public domain rorschach test images on the article ... because it would make it harder for psychologists to use them, or something. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rorschach_test :not as though the test works any more than say, astrology :D not as though the test works any more than say, astrology...
21:55:37 <estoppel> Just wanted to tell him since he's tagged as "wikipedian" in my mind :-P
21:55:41 <estoppel> And I found it highly amusing.
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22:22:19 <Pthingg> a sacrum, two gnomes high-fiving, two black women with red hats low-fiving, a shitting giant, a bat, a violin with a sort of rotating razor blade deal, a kind of necklace made of almost axehead shapes, two giant mites sucking some qi out of a linear black hole, and standing on some dead things they probably conquered to get up, a deer god with flaming horns and breathing out smoke, sea creatures having a party like there's a sort of prawn at the top an
22:22:19 <Pthingg> d two seahorses and some spiny fish one with a lobster claw
22:31:17 <Slereah> Is that your secret fetish
22:33:10 * oerjan expects that's from one of those recent rorschach threads
22:34:42 * oerjan points out that one thing he saw in that wp article was that _what_ you see is only part of the test, the rationalization for your choices afterwards iirc is even more important
22:34:56 <oerjan> or something like rationalization
22:36:02 <oerjan> mind you it might still be astrology, but it would be like the difference between a newspaper horoscope and a full chart, i think
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23:13:25 <oklopol> estoppel: oklofok: what os are you using atm btw? and is your internet good enough to dl 23mb? <<< still vista, and ~
23:15:25 <oklopol> ~ being "5 hours, 44 minutes left" :P
23:16:56 <oklopol> also why the fuck is my firefox in finnish
23:17:01 <oklopol> where can you change that?
23:20:54 <oklopol> i have no idea how long it's been in finnish, i just realized something was wrong when comparing my "~ being..." message and the actual time left message in ff
23:21:32 <oklopol> and turns out they were in different langauges
23:24:56 <oklopol> estoppel: something smaller might be nice.
23:25:16 <pikhq> Man, that's a great description of unsafePerformIO. "We invent the world, perform an action on it, then destroy the world."
23:25:37 <oklopol> except it's the same world
23:27:01 <oklopol> i like to ruin other people's fun
23:27:07 <oklopol> estoppel: stop not being here
23:33:33 <oklopol> wtf, also µtorrent is in finnish
23:34:07 <oklopol> especially as about 50% of it is translated
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23:37:33 <oklopol> i hate how he actually gets the words right.
23:40:57 <estoppel> 23:24 oklopol: estoppel: something smaller might be nice.
23:41:05 <estoppel> and it'd look shit if i compressed it moe
23:42:00 <estoppel> meanwhile, scientists have synthesized CP in a lab
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23:42:06 <estoppel> by which I mean copernicium, the new name of element 112.
23:42:27 <estoppel> oklopol: 2.5 kB/s → pause utorrent man
23:43:05 <oklopol> they cloned a human, but only used it for porn.
23:43:55 <oklopol> well i know, my point was the continuation, admittedly not funny, not that that was my intention anyway.
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23:44:31 <oklopol> i never really tell "jokes" to be funny, i just tend to mimic what others do on channels.
23:44:38 <oklopol> which i guess means i do try to be funny
23:44:42 <oklopol> but only in the way a markov chain bot would
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