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00:49:32 <ehird> "One thing everybody agrees on: The banner ad is still dead." — suck.com, 2001-04-24
00:54:58 <pikhq> Oh, right, they had those, didn't they?
00:56:32 <pikhq> I'd like to note that Sarah Palin is freaking insane.
00:56:42 <pikhq> Or the world's greatest troll.
00:56:55 <pikhq> She's apparently intending to start a new conservative party.
00:58:29 <GregorR> What we need is a party for all the unimaginably stupid people to go into.
00:58:39 <ehird> Unfortunately, I don't think Ron Paul will join.
00:58:53 <ehird> No, he'll found his own, even more marginal party :)
00:58:57 <pikhq> ehird: Ron Paul definitely wouldn't. He's smarter than his fanboys. ;)
00:59:10 <ehird> pikhq: That's not saying much, though; he's batshit insane.
00:59:12 <pikhq> ... Oh, wait. So's Palin.
00:59:15 <GregorR> Two benefits to Palin's party: 1) The republican party is reduced to republicans, not republicans plus armies of morons. 2) These people will now identify and label themselves quite clearly.
00:59:31 <ehird> Don't go that far.
00:59:58 <pikhq> ehird: Her supporters think that she should be in office. Need I say more?
01:00:01 <ehird> I have been bugged by someone who can code Ruby semi-decently that supports Palin. Sure, doesn't take much, but that's further than Palin could ever get. :P
01:00:12 <ehird> Even she doesn't think that.
01:00:22 <ehird> "GregorR: Two benefits to Palin's party: 1) The republican party is reduced to republicans"
01:00:26 <ehird> I lol'd at your naïvety
01:00:58 <ehird> Similarly, the Democrats will soon become left-wing.
01:01:44 <ehird> …and will, by virtue of this, forevermore be a fringe party.
01:01:49 <pikhq> Lo, and they said: Let there be Kucinich. And there was Kucinich. And it was good.
01:01:54 <ehird> Instead, we'll have the two main parties:
01:02:06 <ehird> Republican Party for America, and the American Party of Republicans (Palin's).
01:02:29 <pikhq> If that happens, I can say but one thing: Nuke it from orbit.
01:02:29 <ehird> pikhq: Kucinich? Nice policies, not so nice "I will release the documents that will PROVE that the USA covered up a UFO landing in Roswell".
01:02:32 <pikhq> It's the only way to be sure.
01:02:43 <pikhq> ehird: ... He never said that.
01:03:04 <pikhq> Kucinich merely claimed that he had seen a UFO. Specifically, he saw something flying that he didn't know what it was.
01:03:17 <ehird> Oh, come on. You seriously think anyone would say "UFO" to mean that?
01:03:18 <pikhq> Don't be as dumbtarded as Palin supporters, please.
01:03:35 <ehird> That's just… that's so stupidly tenuous that I can't even believe it.
01:03:42 <pikhq> Anyone who's reasonable would, yes.
01:04:14 <pikhq> And you respond with a strawman claiming that he believes that the US covered up an alien landing in Roswell.
01:04:16 <ehird> GregorR: Please inform pikhq that he is saying that he thinks Kucinich saying "I saw a UFO!" meant "I saw an object that was flying and I did not identify it at the time".
01:04:18 <pikhq> That's Bushtarded.
01:04:19 <ehird> I am not sure he fully understands.
01:04:30 <pikhq> Fucking Bushtarded.
01:04:33 <ehird> pikhq: It was a year or two ago I read it, kay?
01:04:37 <ehird> My memory is not perfect.
01:04:42 <GregorR> ehird: I'm quite sure you don't fully understand.
01:05:03 <ehird> I hereby declare you to all be Fucking Nuts.
01:05:21 <pikhq> ehird: You're in a country that voted in nazis.
01:05:23 <ehird> Please cease this botanical intercourse.
01:05:25 <pikhq> You're not one to talk.
01:05:25 <GregorR> pikhq: People wonder why people hate the US so much. It's because they get the WEIRDEST impression of what's going on.
01:05:43 <ehird> pikhq: I don't support them, I didn't vote for them, I want them out, but I can't vote.
01:05:45 <ehird> My hands are clean.
01:06:00 <ehird> GregorR: Correction: People hate the US because you're all batshit insane.
01:06:08 <ehird> The miscommunication is a side issue.
01:06:15 <pikhq> ehird: And so're you.
01:06:18 <GregorR> ehird: Thank you for the proof of my point.
01:06:29 <ehird> Yes, I'm batshit insane. I don't run a country.
01:06:38 <ehird> GregorR: cuukoo! cuukoo!
01:06:44 <ehird> Bawak! Bawak! Ding dong, ding dong.
01:06:47 * ehird smashes alarm clock.
01:07:01 <GregorR> Dude, there's only one 'u' in 'cuckoo'. Also there's two 'c's.
01:07:22 <ehird> I was saying sounds, not words.
01:07:42 <GregorR> In that case, how is your 'uu' sound distinct from your 'oo' sound?
01:07:54 <GregorR> And what does this new word cuhckoo mean?
01:08:01 <ehird> Heyy, Google tasks is out of beta cool
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01:51:47 <Batmanifestdesti> I tried making a satanic programming language called LeVey, but it was too similar to C++
01:52:46 <GregorR> How about my previous idea for a CPU where literally every internal bit of the CPU is memory mapped, such that an operation can actually change what the CPU is doing midst that very operation. Pipelining for even more lawls
01:52:55 <pikhq> Needs to be more bizarre -- may I suggest more conjuring of spirits and invocations?
01:53:35 <pikhq> Also, I fail to see what that concept has to do with /LeVey/ Satanism. :P
01:54:14 <GregorR> Batmanifestdesti: I JUST got your nick. I would have gotten it earlier if it wasn't cut off.
01:54:16 <Batmanifestdesti> well....popo! is the common call for when police are coming to wreck a party/ritual ;)
01:55:22 <Batmanifestdesti> maybe I should change the name, since I'm making it more mystic than sticking it to the man
01:57:20 <pikhq> Indeed, it seems to have more to do with common European fantasy than with a vaguely animist religion centered in greed. ;p
01:58:04 <GregorR> (08:57:31 PM) brianrogers83: Imagine with Adam West's voice:
01:58:04 <GregorR> "Robin, we need to expand our country to both coasts. Fetch the bat-manifest destiny."
02:10:32 <Batmanifestdesti> tie up virgin! |m| tie up is the command to call over the standard library, in this case being virgin, the standard library |m|
02:10:34 <Batmanifestdesti> kill virgin! |m| this is the command to start the main program |m|
02:10:36 <Batmanifestdesti> open vial! |m| pops memory stacks from previous programs, just in case they didn't already. |m|
02:10:40 <Batmanifestdesti> pour blod in vial! |m| pushes the number input into the stack |m|
02:10:46 <Batmanifestdesti> mingle 2 fluids! |m| Adds the top 2 numbers of the stack, and puts the value into the top |m|
02:10:48 <Batmanifestdesti> chant incantations! |m| Displays the content at the top of the stack |m|
02:11:39 <pikhq> Not much in the way of semantics, but interesting syntax, at least.
02:15:30 <Batmanifestdesti> Something that would be awesome would be a programming language where the source is a sound file
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02:49:32 <oerjan> ah, another incomprehensibility
02:50:57 <GregorR> That's oerjan's response to most things.
02:51:31 * GregorR imagines oerjan walking up to a door with an unusual knob; "ah, another incomprehensibility"
02:51:49 <oerjan> wait, those actually _are_ question marks in the topic? devious.
02:52:15 <oerjan> GregorR: you know, that is depressingly close to accurate.
02:52:27 <GregorR> So long as you say it dramatically it's just awesomel.
02:52:39 <GregorR> Like, imagine that as said by Patrick Stewart.
02:52:39 <oerjan> maybe not in that particular kind of instance, but yet...
02:53:10 <Batmanifestdesti> I just came up with another language, this one I enjoyed making more :)
02:54:30 <pikhq> WARNING: NEW ESOLANGER. CRITICAL HASKELL DENSITY HAS BEEN LOST.
02:54:50 <pikhq> > (+2)<$>[0..10] -- RESTORING NOW
02:54:52 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Prelude.read: no parse
02:54:52 <lambdabot> mueval-core: NotAllowed "These modules...
02:55:15 <oerjan> > nubBy(((>1).).gcd)[2..]
02:55:17 <lambdabot> [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101...
02:55:40 <pikhq> oerjan: That is... Quite clever.
02:55:55 <oerjan> if that isn't dense haskell i don't know what is.
02:56:19 <pikhq> I'm afraid it looks too Lispy. Needs more $. :P
02:57:40 <oerjan> Batmanifestdesti: it creates an infinite list of primes, by abusing the nubBy function which is normally used to delete "equal elements" from a list
02:57:40 <pikhq> Batmanifestdesti: Why, it simply goes through the list of all numbers greater than two and removes the ones for which the greatest common denominator between it and anything previous in the list is greater than 1.
02:58:17 <oerjan> except it uses an "equal function" that is an obfuscated version of "has common factors"
02:58:49 <pikhq> That would be this:
02:58:59 <pikhq> > fix ((0:) . scanl (+) 1)
02:59:00 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946...
02:59:28 <pikhq> > fix$(0:).scanl(+)1
02:59:29 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946...
03:00:21 <pikhq> More &? Are you a C-er?
03:00:21 <oerjan> & isn't very common in haskell alas, although && does mean "and"
03:00:31 <oerjan> and .&. is bitwise and
03:01:55 <Batmanifestdesti> hey, with low-level programming, you could make a compiler for your own language, and have it not go slow as heck/be a giant file when compiled
03:02:18 <pikhq> Or you could just do that in Haskell.
03:02:47 <pikhq> The high-level language we've been using.
03:03:03 <GregorR> Which is actually a low-level language ...
03:03:18 <GregorR> It's more statically typed than C++, that's for sure.
03:03:20 <oerjan> > (+2)<$>[0..10] -- why didn't this work?
03:03:21 <lambdabot> [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12]
03:03:31 <GregorR> oerjan: It appears that it did work.
03:03:42 <pikhq> oerjan: Clearly Lambdabot hates me.
03:03:42 <Batmanifestdesti> so far I've been using L.in.oleum more, as I like the mad scientist feeling it gives me
03:03:51 <pikhq> GregorR: Static typing does not make something low level.
03:04:05 <GregorR> pikhq: No, my "low level" statement was just silliness :P
03:04:22 <GregorR> But static typing does, in the case of Haskell, make it compilable to very fast code (as well as various other tweaks)
03:04:58 <pikhq> It also lets you pretend that state is a figment of the universe's imagination.
03:05:11 <GregorR> Batmanifestdesti: It's so not even remotely comparable.
03:05:17 <pikhq> Batmanifestdesti: That's not something C++ does, and that's not a good property to have in a language other than assembly.
03:05:59 <pikhq> What is this L.in.oleum?
03:07:16 <pikhq> GODDAMMIT INTERNET STOP BEING SO EFFING SLOW WITH THE FREAKING HTTP
03:07:56 <pikhq> I DEMAND MOAR PACKETS
03:08:17 <oerjan> that's an _evil_ use of frames :(
03:08:25 <sgeo> There are good uses?
03:08:28 <pikhq> I ACTUALLY DEMAND ANY PACKETS AT ALL
03:08:40 <pikhq> sgeo: Yes. They all predate CSS.
03:09:56 <pikhq> WHY IS MY BANDWIDTH PEAKING AT 1KBPS?
03:10:06 <pikhq> I AM YELLING A LOT
03:10:37 <sgeo> Who told me that Twisted included a way to communicate with Orbited servers?
03:11:06 <pikhq> Huh. Portable assembler.
03:11:28 <pikhq> Not bad. You should totally learn something highere level though.
03:12:19 <Batmanifestdesti> I became disillusoned with it when I realized that most Python programmers leave the hard work to the interpreter
03:12:29 <pikhq> Which languages have you used?
03:13:17 <Batmanifestdesti> ZZT-OOP, which is actually a scripting language, Java, and a bit of Python
03:13:35 <pikhq> Crap, crap, and not too bad.
03:14:05 <pikhq> Also, crap and A POX UPON ALL THAT IS RIGHT IN THE WORLD.
03:14:06 <oerjan> now you are just trying to freak pikhq out :D
03:15:12 <pikhq> Seriously, are you pulling up a list of all the *worst* languages and trying them?
03:15:18 <pikhq> I'm surprised you even tried Python. :P
03:16:30 <pikhq> How often did they break your brain?
03:16:50 <pikhq> Probably not often enough.
03:18:16 <pikhq> Needs more calculus. :P
03:22:05 <oerjan> <Batmanifestdesti> I tried making a satanic programming language called LeVey, but it was too similar to C++
03:22:34 <oerjan> is this the first time someone comes into the channel and we're not sure if he misunderstood the name or not? :D
03:22:35 <pikhq> oerjan: You know, now that you mention it...
03:22:50 <pikhq> I do believe it is. :P
03:23:09 <pikhq> C++ *is* a satanic programming language. I wonder if LeVey invented it.
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04:10:21 <pikhq> It deserves it, though.
04:14:58 <GregorR> Ooh, it's been a naughty satanism.
04:18:22 <augur_> whats this about S&M now
04:18:25 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
04:18:46 <GregorR> augur has "S&M" on highlight.
04:18:47 * augur is getting excited
04:19:12 <GregorR> I would be into S&M but I'm allergic to leather.
04:19:39 <GregorR> (^^^ nonsensicalliest sentence ever? I hope so, I'm entering it in the nonsensicalliest sentence ever competition!)
04:19:40 <augur> as if you nee to use leather.
04:20:44 <Slereah> Metal is cold and uncomfortable :(
04:20:51 <Slereah> Not that I'd... know anything about this
04:20:51 <GregorR> Batmanifestdesti: Can't be chrome. That's why I'm allergic to leather :P
04:22:16 <GregorR> And not the "ooh that's hot" kind.
04:22:29 <GregorR> More the "no, this is the definition of 'pussy' meaning 'covered in pus'" kind.
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04:27:33 <GregorR> What's terrifying is not that he uses emacs at all, but that he is actually presently using emacs to talk on this IRC channel.
04:29:29 <Batmanifestdesti> well yeah, but what programming language do you use or suck at?
04:29:53 <Slereah> I only use Plain English, the best language ever designed
04:30:51 <GregorR> Slereah: I find that statement amusing on so many levels :P
04:31:11 <Slereah> Plain English is our little joke.
04:31:22 <Batmanifestdesti> Slereah: you mean you don't love french, with it's verb sandwiches? XD
04:31:49 <Slereah> Batmanifestdesti : There is a programming language called Plain English
04:32:01 <Slereah> It's one of the worst language known to man
04:32:04 <Batmanifestdesti> I wish PROTOCOPTER would get finished already, so that someone could get off their fanny and make a real compiler for lolcode
04:37:38 <upyr[emacs]> I like fluxbox, but I am lazy to decorate it
04:40:06 <Batmanifestdesti> and for an undefined integer you must put that it's "OVER 9000!!!!!!!!"
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04:41:34 <upyr[emacs]> #esoteric> sorry, I do not understand. (I use google-translator :( )
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04:42:32 <zzo38> I managed to write a IRC client called PHIRC. It requires PuTTY to work, though.
04:42:46 <zzo38> But it does coloring and all sorts of other stuff too.
04:43:34 <zzo38> Senders are cyan, commands are bold white, parameters are white, text after a colon is bold blue. Control characters are reverse video magenta.
04:45:45 <zzo38> It also does automatic ping-pong.
04:46:12 <zzo38> Pushing space fills in PRIVMSG and the last channel used with PRIVMSG or JOIN command. However, it doesn't process redirects yet (I can add that to the next version).
04:47:08 <zzo38> Oops, although it wraps forward, it doesn't wrap backward to the previous line when chr(127) is sent
04:47:13 <zzo38> I wrote it iin PHP
04:48:05 <Batmanifestdesti> I should probably get to work some time on my Lino skills, so that I can make an interpreter for my programming language
04:48:21 <upyr[emacs]> zzo38: I think, "putty required" is not well for irc-crient. probably better to rewrite this part
04:49:02 -!- Slereah has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the words esoteric programming languages AT ALL TIMES | $BcfBd+qcfFd+scf@d+rcf@d+r(BBA[start].
04:49:22 <pikhq> Batmanifestdesti: Please, no more LOLCODE.
04:49:27 <pikhq> It was dumb then and it's dumb now.
04:49:44 <pikhq> Also, compilers and interpreters? Not as hard as you think.
04:50:03 <zzo38> It also has a few slash-commands. /C connects to a server and port, /Q quits (and closes PuTTY as well), /ECHO echoes a text to you.
04:50:23 * sgeo would be unable to write compilers, unless it's a compiler to a language like Python or C
04:50:34 <zzo38> The other slash command I will add is /WHOIS which acts like WHOIS but repeats the nickname
04:50:51 <pikhq> sgeo: C is a perfectly cromulent target language.
04:50:52 <Batmanifestdesti> I'm talking about an interpreter or compiler for my own esoteric language
04:51:08 <pikhq> Also, get some Brainfuck stat.
04:51:14 <zzo38> I used a command script to load both PuTTY and PHIRC at the same time (including loading the profile in PuTTY)
04:51:48 <sgeo> Try doing BF without the loops, for practice
04:52:17 <sgeo> Try reimplementing PSOX >.>
04:52:32 <Batmanifestdesti> That would be hard, considering I've never made in ainterpreter before >>
04:52:55 <sgeo> Batmanifestdesti, BF without loops? Very good practice for making interpreters
04:53:31 <zzo38> Are these all the possible channel prefix? !#%&+
04:54:14 <sgeo> Don't try reimplementing PSOX
04:54:31 <zzo38> Now I have to add proper line editing and history access and stuff
04:54:46 <sgeo> PSOX is unnecessary, there's already a good enough implementation that just needs a few fixes if it's actually wanted by anyone, and it was a pain to write
04:55:00 <sgeo> Where's ehird?
04:55:31 <zzo38> ehird is not online right now. Please leave a message after the beep.
04:56:18 <zzo38> PHIRC also masks the password with asterisks (and green) if you type the PASS command.
04:56:49 <zzo38> How can I make it wrap to the previous like when backspacing?
04:57:02 <pikhq> zzo38: According to the IRC spec at least.
04:57:56 <zzo38> Sorry I must have missed something. What's according to the IRC spec at least?
04:58:11 <pikhq> The channel prefixes.
04:58:37 <zzo38> O, so I did not miss any of these channel prefixes, that's good.
04:59:11 <zzo38> ! is a safe from takeovers, # is network channel, & is local channel, + is nobody can be operator, % is used in IRCX
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05:04:09 <sgeo> None of those work on Freenode
05:05:25 <sgeo> Why are you ducking when you point out an obvious stupidity on my part?
05:05:54 <oerjan> to avoid random violence
05:06:04 <oerjan> some people cannot take criticism
05:07:03 <oerjan> must...avoid...yogurt...like the plague
05:07:46 <sgeo> If I was the sort of person unable to take criticism, I would have invented a way to hurt ehird over TCP/IP by now >.>
05:17:39 <oerjan> not recently that i can recall
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06:54:08 <Batmanifestdesti> there should be piet forums for posting programs and stuff, that would be awesome :D
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07:05:25 <Batmanifestdesti> I'm assuming you're here because you like making your brain hurt?
07:13:53 <Batmanifestdesti> I emailed the guy who made Piet, Chef, Zombie and all that jazz, and asked if I could make a Piet forum!
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08:53:14 <oklokok> AnMaster_ipv6: oerjan, STOP BEING SO UN-NORWEGIAN! RIGHT NOW! <<< yeswegian
08:56:39 <oklokok> GregorR: Bose had a commercial for headphones that came with a free MP3 player. This is how expensive Bose is. <<< i thought you meant they had a commercial for headphones you could only get by getting a free mp3 player :D
08:56:52 <oklokok> so expensive they have commercials even for their free products.
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09:07:16 <oklokok> GregorR: What we need is a party for all the unimaginably stupid people to go into. <<< you do realize the more organized they are, the more they can accomplish
09:16:11 <oklokok> oerjan: GregorR: you know, that is depressingly close to accurate. <<< i was recently baffled by this door; turned out you needed to *push* it
09:16:31 <oklokok> i was like lol that was so algorithmically trivial, not worth solving
09:27:50 <oklokok> Batmanifestdesti: I became disillusoned with it when I realized that most Python programmers leave the hard work to the interpreter <<< the hard work? as in, the trivialities not worth thinking about :P
09:31:50 <oklokok> we need a name for people who think esolangs are about funny syntax
09:36:37 <oklokok> yay, only 40 minutes of logs
09:36:46 <oklokok> i'm definitely not doing this every morning :D
09:36:52 <oklokok> especially as you are all idiots
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11:39:42 <ehird> oklokok: about £200 for an ok one
11:42:20 <oklokok> so how's this, have the volume controls at your feet and a pitch control for both hands
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11:42:47 <oklokok> that would be a bit more ultimate i think.
11:43:38 <ehird> 02:12 Batmanifestdesti: I became disillusoned with it when I realized that most Python programmers leave the hard work to the interpreter
11:44:23 <ehird> 03:30 Batmanifestdesti: I use C++, Lino and LOLCODE
11:44:51 <ehird> 03:38 Batmanifestdesti: there should be a meme-based programming language
11:45:31 <oklokok> i'm guessing you might be able to come up with that term
11:45:35 <ehird> 03:50 Batmanifestdesti: though I do disagree with your opinion on it ;)
11:45:57 <ehird> 03:55 sgeo: Where's ehird?
11:46:34 <ehird> okay now i will logread oklokok's questions
11:46:42 <ehird> 11:41 oklokok: i want
11:46:42 <ehird> 11:41 oklokok: i would own at that
11:46:43 <ehird> 11:41 oklokok: it's trivial
11:46:46 <ehird> 11:42 oklokok: so how's this, have the volume controls at your feet and a pitch control for both hands
11:46:52 <ehird> it's actually not very trivial also that would be not needed.
11:47:12 <oklokok> i'm going to do it right after i've mastered the one pitch version
11:47:16 <ehird> 11:45 oklokok: what was that about?
11:47:22 <oklokok> i guess i should just buy both at once
11:47:25 <ehird> 11:46 oklokok: what was that
11:47:34 <ehird> oklokok: oh, you can get them?
11:47:52 <ehird> oklokok: imo the one pitch one volume is much better
11:47:57 <ehird> you can still do everything
11:48:00 <ehird> but it's less bloated.
11:48:11 <oklokok> how can you make two pitches with it
11:48:47 <ehird> oklokok: wavering very very quickly between them. this isn't hard because you need to have perfect steady hands to play it already.
11:48:53 <ehird> trust me, it sounds right.
11:49:00 <ehird> if you're trying to do 50 melodies at once, assemble an orchestra :D
11:49:28 <oklokok> not 50, but would be nice to have a separate bassline
11:49:34 <ehird> i have a theremin, you don't, I'm right
11:49:53 <oklokok> but you don't know anything about anything, didn't you hear me call you an idiot this morning
11:50:03 <oklokok> doesn't that kinda mean i win?
11:50:17 <oklokok> i mean i want that theremin
11:50:40 <oklokok> btw i even sucked at violin
11:50:44 <ehird> oklokok: i'll set up robotic hands for you so you can play the theremin over tcp ip.
11:50:48 <oklokok> couldn't even get a note out right away
11:51:26 <ehird> also, it's very doubtful you'll be able to play a theremin well. right off the bat you need totally steady hands and the ability to make very precise, subtle hand movements in real time. _then_, you need to learn how to actually get it to produce music.
11:52:57 <oklokok> it took me one attempt and about a minute to build my first card pyramid, which was 4 stories tall
11:53:08 <oklokok> but i have semisteady hands
11:53:36 <ehird> weiiiereireiriereirerierieriierieierierierr ← your projected theremin constant note
11:54:39 <ehird> oklokok: you can easily make "experimental" music with it though
11:54:42 <ehird> just throw things at it
11:55:20 <oklokok> have you actually given it any effort?
11:56:04 <ehird> i don't really give things effort
11:56:43 <ehird> my programming skills are entirely down to unconcentrated trickles of not giving effort
11:58:04 <oklokok> right, i'm more like you know ocd
12:00:44 <oklokok> i wish i wasn't in the middle of the woods
12:03:11 <ehird> but i look like a mess.
12:03:29 <ehird> anyway oklokok i went through a period of longing too.
12:03:43 <ehird> i can say this: it's not worth £200 unless you already know you're a virtuoso :D
12:05:17 <Deewiant> Just build one yourself if you want one
12:05:45 <ehird> Deewiant: uhh, no.
12:05:53 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:05:54 <ehird> it's not like a shitty toy instrument
12:06:04 <ehird> moog's theremins are beautiful
12:06:41 <Deewiant> ehird: You can get a good one later
12:06:48 <Deewiant> But if you just want to try it out, just make your own
12:06:49 <ehird> no, just buy one :P
12:07:00 <Deewiant> Well, whichever you consider easier
12:07:50 <ehird> oklokok: come back
12:08:00 <ehird> oklokok: i'm about to cost you inordinate amounts of money
12:08:01 <ehird> http://www.moogmusic.com/theremin/?section=product&product_id=110
12:08:13 <ehird> $1579 apparently they don't even make it any more, but it's fucking made of maplewood.
12:08:27 <ehird> well the electronics aren't.
12:08:32 <ehird> it just looks pretty.
12:09:11 <oklokok> Deewiant: building is too much work
12:09:24 <AnMaster> electronics made of maplewood would be fun
12:09:29 <oklokok> it's easier to find a job, do it for a while, and buy a theremin.
12:09:38 <AnMaster> wonder if you can add something to wood to make it conduct
12:11:20 <oklokok> i wonder what it'd look like if you melted wood into the form of a chair
12:11:38 <ehird> not much like a chair
12:11:45 <AnMaster> oklokok, what is the melting point of wood?
12:12:26 <AnMaster> I guess it would vary between (for example) teak and pine
12:12:37 <oklokok> i don't have a singlest idea.
12:12:52 <AnMaster> "<oklokok> i don't have the singlest idea."?
12:13:36 <ehird> wood doesn't melt...
12:13:36 <AnMaster> tons is for weight not temperature :P
12:13:36 <oklokok> not even the most single idea popped into my head.
12:13:48 <ehird> i think oklokok might know this
12:14:00 <ehird> http://www.international.inra.fr/press/like_metal_wood_can_melt_and_be_welded
12:14:04 <AnMaster> but what if you had an oxygen free chamber when you melt it
12:14:06 <ehird> just rely on pioneering international physics to do it
12:14:52 <ehird> the ig nobel prize is most often an excuse to laugh at science that is considered "weird".
12:15:07 <ehird> the discovery seems great to me, i doubt even they'd go that low
12:17:03 <oklokok> wtf, how is that a discovery
12:17:53 <oklokok> as if metal wood could be melted!
12:18:31 <AnMaster> oklokok, they cut out the comma
12:19:04 <ehird> I wish you would stop pointing out trivial details that are not lost on anyone in an attempt to "fix" someone's humorous misinterpretation, especially when it's intentional
12:19:07 <ehird> It's really annoying.
12:19:53 <oklokok> all people should have a thing
12:19:55 <ehird> oh, you had to say that, didn't you.
12:20:03 <ehird> AnMaster's problem is that he has 50 things and they all suck.
12:20:57 <ehird> See, now, that's not one of your things, AnMaster.
12:21:03 <ehird> You can't even claim that, so stfu.
12:21:34 <oklokok> that would've been the perfect spot to make the world's first your dad joke
12:21:53 <ehird> oklokok: AnMaster's cognitive abilities are far below that stage as of yet.
12:22:01 <ehird> We are currently hoping he does not think to self-improve.
12:22:06 <oklokok> see, at least he recognizes quality humor.
12:22:59 <oklokok> i can't translate that to human laughter
12:24:02 <ehird> Try comic laughter.
12:24:29 <ehird> http://www.longbets.org/266 ← Almost true! If only someone bet against it.
12:24:38 <ehird> (the 128 qubit chips work, they're just not sold yet)
12:25:08 <ehird> (I think the predictor works for the company making them)
12:25:25 <ehird> Dwave System's CTO is indicating 128 qubit sales soon
12:25:26 <ehird> POSTED BY brian wang ON MAR 20, 02009 AT 04:26PM
12:25:51 <ehird> 128 qubit chip. start using quantum encryption.
12:26:43 <ehird> oklokok: do you like large number porn? "Putting all of these qubits into superposition states — the initial Hamiltonian in the adiabatic algorithm — gives 2^128 ~ 3 x 10^38 simultaneously held states. Not quite the number of atoms in the earth, but close."
12:26:45 <oklokok> what can you do with that?
12:27:02 <ehird> 128 qubits is a ton
12:27:23 <ehird> oklokok: ofc you need it cooled to insanely near 0kelvin at the moment
12:27:31 <AnMaster> hm, not too long until you can't trust most encryption any more.
12:27:32 <ehird> but that may be inevitable.
12:27:36 <oklokok> can you actually utilize it that much
12:27:42 <ehird> AnMaster: that's hyperbolic.
12:27:57 <ehird> oklokok: what do you mean
12:28:03 <ehird> oklokok: it has 128 bonafide qubits
12:28:11 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you meant with that in this context.
12:28:24 <ehird> AnMaster: "encryption is dead!!!"
12:28:34 <ehird> oklokok: http://dwave.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/first-view-128-qubit-rainier-chip/, http://dwave.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/a-close-up-fully-wirebonded/, http://dwave.wordpress.com/2009/04/14/128-qubit-chip-mounted-on-io-system/
12:28:41 <oklokok> can you just use them as 128 nondeterministic choices in a program?
12:28:47 <ehird> oklokok: they're real quantum bits
12:28:52 <ehird> it's a real quantum computer
12:29:01 <AnMaster> ehird, rather "current encryption algorithms are soon dead"
12:29:02 <ehird> with 128 qubits just like any quantum computer would have
12:29:13 <ehird> AnMaster: hyperbolic. also, if they are, nothing can replace them.
12:29:28 <ehird> the only thing we could use is quantum encryption
12:29:41 <ehird> so we'd all have to buy ridiculously expensive systems constantly run at near 0-kelvin
12:30:02 <ehird> the CIA know everything about me anyway.
12:30:18 <ehird> i doubt if they wanted, say, your credit card number, they'd try and crack your gpg file with it :P
12:30:21 <AnMaster> there is always that quantum encryption thingy, but iirc that requires rather specialised hardware, like being able to send one photon at a time to the receiver. Which might be a bit non-trivial to say the least on current internet infrastructure.
12:30:33 <ehird> 12:29 ehird: the only thing we could use is quantum encryption
12:30:34 <ehird> 12:29 ehird: so we'd all have to buy ridiculously expensive systems constantly run at near 0-kelvin
12:30:38 <ehird> AnMaster: not special hardware.
12:30:38 <AnMaster> argh, lag, am I still connected?
12:30:41 <ehird> just a quantum computer.
12:31:13 <ehird> anyway, if you really think the NSA is breaking PGP with quantum computers, that has no practical effect, because there's nothing else you can do.
12:32:09 <AnMaster> ehird, I didn't know that sort of quantum encryption needed 0 kelvin? Maybe you are referring to some other sort of quantum encryption?
12:32:20 <ehird> AnMaster: quantum COMPUTERS need near 0 kelvin
12:32:25 <ehird> cooling an object to 0K is impossible
12:32:28 <ehird> so they just run at 0.000000001K
12:32:48 <ehird> AnMaster: basically, if you have it any hotter, superconducting fails or something. also the environment fucks all the quantum-level stuff up.
12:32:57 <AnMaster> ehird, yes of course I know you can't go to 0K... the line above was indeed slightly inaccurate due to missing one word
12:32:59 <ehird> maybe we'll have room temperature quantum computers someday
12:33:18 <ehird> but for now, if you want a quantum computer, you need a gigantic cooling system and a lot of patience for it to cool down
12:33:34 <ehird> i hate to think of the power requirements
12:34:59 <AnMaster> ehird, this variant of quantum cryptography doesn't seem to need a quantum computer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB84
12:35:24 <ehird> "She then encodes these two strings as a string of n qubits,"
12:35:25 <AnMaster> it is just key distribution to create a secure one time key
12:35:29 <ehird> Either you're really dumb or didn't notice "qubit".
12:35:54 <AnMaster> "This protocol, known as BB84 after its inventors and year of publication, was originally described using photon polarization states to transmit the information. However, any two pairs of conjugate states can be used for the protocol, and many optical fibre based implementations described as BB84 use phase encoded states."
12:35:54 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cryptography#BB84_protocol:_Charles_H._Bennett_and_Gilles_Brassard_.281984.29
12:36:12 <ehird> Wow, you're fucking dumb.
12:36:17 <ehird> THAT'S JUST THE TRANSMISSION.
12:36:32 <ehird> QUBITS are what QUANTUM COMPUTERS are for.
12:37:33 <AnMaster> ehird, yes I know that, but I'm pretty sure I read about this being implemented and tested without a quantum computer. Let me find the book.
12:37:43 <ehird> AnMaster: Yes, you can emulate qubits with a classical computer.
12:37:45 <ehird> Guess what that is?
12:41:19 <ehird> As in stop considering it AnMaster it's not happening slow.
12:41:54 <AnMaster> ehird, atm I'm reading about the details of that encryption scheme in the book to check up on some details, I will be back in a few minutes
12:42:14 <ehird> You cannot run that feasibly on a classical computer.
12:42:21 <ehird> You don't even want to think about the time complexity.
12:42:49 <AnMaster> ehird, where exactly in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cryptography#BB84_protocol:_Charles_H._Bennett_and_Gilles_Brassard_.281984.29 does it mention a qubit?
12:43:21 <ehird> you could play a drinking game with the amount of times it mentions "quantum"
12:43:50 <ehird> so are you an idiot because you don't understand the text one bit or an idiot because you didn't read it before linking?
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12:46:58 <AnMaster> ehird, It does mention quantum a lot yes. But not any qbits. If you read up on it, it seems all you need are: 1) some communication channel where you can transfer one photon at a time 2) Some way to polarize photons in one of 4 different directions (0°, 90°, 45° and 135°) 3) Some way to be able to detect if the photon is polarised in 0 or 90 and some way to detect if it is polarised in 45 or 135.
12:46:58 <AnMaster> 4) A way to switch between the two alternative detectors mentioned 5) A good random source
12:47:26 <AnMaster> what step in that key exchange requires a quantum computer.
12:47:43 <AnMaster> ehird, obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that, so please inform me.
12:48:21 <oklokok> if this was #math, "obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that" would be in #not-math's topic in about a minute
12:48:54 <AnMaster> oklokok, in this case it was sarcastic. Because I'm pretty sure ehird is wrong.
12:49:05 <ehird> you didn't even get it second time around
12:49:13 <AnMaster> btw, also see ISBN 91-1-300708-4
12:49:15 <oklokok> of course it was sarcastic, that wasn't the point
12:49:17 <ehird> got to agree with the expressed sentiment.
12:49:39 <fizzie> You could read the main BB84 article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB84 if you want to see the word "qubit" made explicit.
12:49:54 <ehird> fizzie: he linked that first
12:49:56 <ehird> but picked the other article
12:50:02 <ehird> because it fit what he thought in his warped mind
12:50:13 <ehird> that's the scientific method
12:50:23 <ehird> if the evidence contradicts your theory, find other evidence.
12:50:46 <oklokok> well clearly the first evidence was wrong
12:51:02 <oklokok> why would you be looking for evidence if you weren't sure your theory was right
12:51:11 <AnMaster> fizzie, I see it there, but the other description doesn't involve using a quantum computer as far as I can see.
12:51:23 -!- ehird has set topic: obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
12:52:12 <oklokok> tbh i was hoping you would do exactly that
12:55:31 -!- AnMaster has set topic: The topic must contain the words esoteric programming languages AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
12:55:38 <AnMaster> ehird, you keep forgetting that ^
12:56:14 -!- oerjan has joined.
12:56:16 <ehird> AnMaster: the last topic didn't contain them.
12:56:23 -!- ehird has set topic: obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
12:56:25 <ehird> go check if you want
12:56:25 <AnMaster> ehird, it did when I joined today
12:56:30 -!- oklokok has set topic: obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that the topic must contain the words esoteric programming languages AT ALL TIMES | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
12:56:44 <AnMaster> * Topic for #esoteric is: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the words esoteric programming languages AT ALL TIMES | $BcfBd+qcfFd+scf@d+rcf@d+r(BBA[start]
12:56:44 <AnMaster> * Topic for #esoteric set by Slereah at Wed Jul 15 05:49:01 2009
12:56:46 <ehird> hmm, someone changed it from konami code.
12:56:51 <ehird> it was konami code a few days ago
12:56:53 <ehird> so the rule has been broken
12:56:56 -!- ehird has set topic: obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
12:57:06 <AnMaster> ehird, wrong, when I joined it was there, as shown above
12:57:28 <ehird> guess what time it is?
12:57:41 <AnMaster> ehird, right, but what has that got to do with it? If it was broken before, why should it be broken again.
12:58:13 <ehird> because it wasn't in the topic at all time, and rules should be descriptive, not perscriptive.
12:58:29 <ehird> also, once it's been ousted out of the topic for a while it's not a rule any more
12:58:36 <ehird> otherwise we'd be playing by asiekierka's fuckfests
12:58:41 <ehird> of contradictory, pointless topic rules
12:58:45 <ehird> even though we removed them
13:00:17 <oerjan> <oklokok> AnMaster_ipv6: oerjan, STOP BEING SO UN-NORWEGIAN! RIGHT NOW! <<< yeswegian
13:00:23 <oerjan> as long as it isn't glaswegian
13:03:17 <oerjan> <ehird> DIE <-- i guess we should be glad you weren't on simultaneously
13:07:53 <oerjan> <AnMaster> oklokok, what is the melting point of wood? <-- afair wood without oxygen gives off gases and turns into charcoal when heated. now coal is essentially carbon, which doesn't melt either at standard pressure
13:08:23 <oklokok> so it just turns into gas?
13:08:35 <ehird> AnMaster: anyway, if you have $70m to buy a next generation quantum computer (a lot of patience too, of course.), a lot of time to wait for it to cool, a lot of power, and know someone else with the same, and you network them quantumly, you can do quantum encryption
13:08:50 <oklokok> i would've suggested it, but i didn't remember the term for it
13:09:05 <oklokok> what's the other direction?
13:09:17 <oklokok> and i don't think it's related to härmistyminen in english.
13:09:24 <oerjan> except i'm not sure if charcoal is pure enough carbon to do that
13:09:25 <ehird> AnMaster: Also, the opinion of Schneier, Matt Weir, Robert R. Tucci and surely others is that quantum cryptography is totally useless.
13:09:46 <oerjan> no idea, assuming it's anything other than freezing
13:10:21 <AnMaster> ehird, I agree it is impractical
13:10:27 <oklokok> oerjan: are you suggesting it'd turn straight into plasma or something?
13:10:37 <ehird> AnMaster: EVEN if you could get it working, it would be pointless.
13:10:38 <fizzie> oklokok: Deposition, according to the table at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_transition
13:10:53 <AnMaster> ehird, oh? Because NSA isn't that interested? ;P
13:10:58 -!- FireFly has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:10:58 -!- Slereah has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:07 <fizzie> It's a rather more boring word than the Finnish one.
13:11:10 -!- Slereah has joined.
13:11:10 <ehird> AnMaster: Welp, you're an idiot.
13:11:16 -!- FireFly has joined.
13:11:18 <AnMaster> ehird, that was an attempt at a joke
13:11:31 <ehird> Jokes do not substitute for anything else.
13:11:45 <ehird> Your attempt to use it in a place where CoherentResponse was expected has crashed the universe.
13:12:20 <ehird> I was not trolling.
13:12:27 <ehird> Jokes do not substitute for actual coherency
13:12:33 <oerjan> ehird: i've been wondering, what if someone proved P=NP so thoroughly that all ordinary encryption gets broken instantly. would quantum encryption still be useful as a replacement?
13:12:58 <oerjan> (excepting one-time pads, of course)
13:13:06 <ehird> i think if you have p=np all encryption apart from one time pads is effectively hopeless
13:13:48 <oerjan> erm, not *that* evilly. *yet*
13:14:04 <AnMaster> oklokok, would he tell you if it was?
13:14:18 <oklokok> why not? we're good friends.
13:14:23 <ehird> p=np would be beautiful
13:14:29 <fizzie> "Aalso known as desublimation." Now that's evel more boring.
13:14:38 <ehird> oerjan: what's oklokok's name
13:15:25 <ehird> oklokok: hi aalso evel
13:16:16 <oklokok> actually that's almost an anagram of my name.
13:17:01 <ehird> oklokok: what's your initials
13:17:20 <ehird> firstname[0]+lastname[0]
13:17:39 <oklokok> i actually have firstnames in a list
13:17:52 <ehird> oklopol.firstname[0]+oklopol.lastname[0]
13:18:05 -!- sebbu has joined.
13:18:54 <fizzie> I would rather expect firstname[0]+lastname[0] to be the sum of the codepoint values of the first characters of oklopol's first and last names, instead of a two-character string.
13:19:24 <AnMaster> fizzie, I was calculating the code points for mine, I interpreted it that way too
13:19:47 <ehird> >>> 'aalso'[0]+'evel'[0]
13:20:00 <ehird> as oklokok uses python for... well everything, it's obvious i intended it.
13:20:12 <oerjan> <ehird> I wish you would stop pointing out trivial details that are not lost on anyone in an attempt to "fix" someone's humorous misinterpretation, especially when it's intentional
13:20:14 <ehird> also, the sum gives more information, anyway
13:20:24 <ehird> oerjan: except that's not even remotely the same.
13:20:26 <oklokok> obviously summing characters means concatenation into a string
13:20:27 <oerjan> omg could AnMaster secretly be Joke_explainer?
13:20:32 <ehird> 13:18 fizzie: I would rather expect firstname[0]+lastname[0] to be the sum of the codepoint values of the first characters of oklopol's first and last names, instead of a two-character string.
13:20:36 <ehird> unless it was a really terrible one
13:20:48 <oklokok> that's the great thing about humans, they own at type inference.
13:20:48 <ehird> i ignored AnMaster as a matter of principle.
13:21:03 <ehird> oklokok: so what is it
13:21:48 <oklokok> oerjan: omg could AnMaster secretly be Joke_explainer? <<< at least he's mentioned jokes explained about a million times
13:21:54 <oklokok> maybe that was your reference anyway
13:22:04 <ehird> no i actually said that
13:22:23 <oerjan> 'twas a reddit reference, anyway
13:22:37 <ehird> <ehird> I wish you would stop pointing out trivial details that are not lost on anyone in an attempt to "fix" someone's humorous misinterpretation, especially when it's intentional
13:23:20 <oklokok> i was commenting on oerjan's comment
13:23:44 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/user/joke-explainer/ anyway
13:23:57 <oerjan> > (!0)<$>words"aalso evel"
13:23:58 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Arr.Array i e'
13:24:08 <oklokok> i think i'm having some sort of stroke here.
13:24:22 <oerjan> > (!!0)<$>words"aalso evel"
13:24:32 <oerjan> hm head is actually shorter
13:25:21 <oerjan> oklokok: er seriously?
13:25:42 <ehird> oklokok: is never serious.
13:25:48 <ehird> > head . words "aalso evel"
13:25:49 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> [a1]'
13:25:56 <ehird> > let (.) = fmap in head . words "aalso evel"
13:26:01 <oerjan> i bet he would be, if he got a stroke. well, possibly.
13:26:04 <ehird> confusing as shit that :D
13:26:11 <oklokok> not seriously, i just feel like i completely misunderstood something back there.
13:26:20 <oklokok> because i have no idea why ehird said what he did
13:26:49 <oerjan> oklokok: i was logreading
13:27:41 <oklokok> i just pointed out more evidence
13:27:50 <oerjan> also, you commented on it at the time O_o
13:28:39 <ehird> i thought you used it as an arugment
13:28:56 <ehird> 13:18 fizzie: I would rather expect firstname[0]+lastname[0] to be the sum of the codepoint values of the first characters of oklopol's first and last names, instead of a two-character string. 13:19 AnMaster: fizzie, I was calculating the code points for mine, I interpreted it that way too 13:19 ehird: it's python. 13:20 ehird: as oklokok uses python for... well everything, it's obvious i intended it. 13:20 oerjan: <ehird> I wish you would stop pointing
13:28:59 <ehird> out trivial details that are not lost on anyone in an attempt to "fix" someone's humorous misinterpretation, especially when it's intentional
13:29:02 <ehird> i wondered how you got out the quote so quickly
13:29:10 <ehird> well that makes more sense now
13:29:15 <ehird> i've never known oerjan as the argumentative type
13:29:26 <oklokok> oerjan: i commented on it, yes, but not to you
13:29:51 <oerjan> of course not, i was not there
13:30:05 <oerjan> if i had been, i would not be logreading it, would i?
13:30:11 <oklokok> oerjan is more "fuck, drama, get me outta here, i need to have my daily dosage of cod"
13:30:41 <oklokok> oerjan: i'm just saying i don't see what was weird about my comment.
13:30:41 <ehird> oerjan: to confirm: you did not mean it as an argument like in:
13:30:46 <ehird> 13:28 ehird: 13:18 fizzie: I would rather expect firstname[0]+lastname[0] to be the sum of the codepoint values of the first characters of oklopol's first and last names, instead of a two-character string. 13:19 AnMaster: fizzie, I was calculating the code points for mine, I interpreted it that way too 13:19 ehird: it's python. 13:20 ehird: as oklokok uses python for... well everything, it's obvious i intended it. 13:20 oerjan: <ehird> I wish you would s
13:30:51 <ehird> 13:28 ehird: out trivial details that are not lost on anyone in an attempt to "fix" someone's humorous misinterpretation, especially when it's intentional
13:31:01 <ehird> and thus my rebuttal of that being appropriate was wasted :D
13:31:09 <oklokok> no, he said why he quoted that right after
13:31:19 <ehird> i thought that was just a side thing
13:31:33 <oerjan> oklokok: i did not comment on your comment until you implied not remembering ehird's comment now
13:31:47 <ehird> oerjan: ANSWER MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
13:31:49 <oklokok> oerjan: true, i guess this has all been just a misunderstanding; or a stroke.
13:33:38 <oklokok> i should really just stick to math, communication simply doesn't work
13:34:31 <ehird> oerjan: ANSWER MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
13:34:43 <oerjan> ehird: IE has this bad habit of randomly including the newline or not when i copy from the logs.
13:34:45 <oklokok> yeah oerjan, answer right away, or what?
13:35:19 <oerjan> thus i don't always get to put the "<--" in
13:36:10 <ehird> 13:30 ehird: oerjan: to confirm: you did not mean it as an argument like in:
13:36:13 <ehird> 13:30 ehird: 13:28 ehird: 13:18 fizzie: I would rather expect firstname[0]+lastname[0] to be the sum of the codepoint values of the first characters of oklopol's first and last names, instead of a two-character string. 13:19 AnMaster: fizzie, I was calculating the code points for mine, I interpreted it that way too 13:19 ehird: it's python. 13:20 ehird: as oklokok uses python for... well everything, it's obvious i intended it. 13:20 oerjan: <ehird> I wis
13:36:18 <ehird> 13:30 ehird: top pointing
13:36:20 <ehird> 13:30 ehird: 13:28 ehird: out trivial details that are not lost on anyone in an attempt to "fix" someone's humorous misinterpretation, especially when it's intentional
13:36:25 <ehird> 13:31 ehird: and thus my rebuttal of that being appropriate was wasted :D
13:36:39 <oerjan> i can neither confirm nor deny that, since that would interfer with my plan to drive you crazy.
13:36:44 <ehird> lklajslksjflasdkjfasf
13:36:47 <ehird> OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN
13:36:49 <ehird> OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OER
13:36:52 <ehird> JAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN
13:36:57 <ehird> OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN OERJAN
13:37:00 <ehird> I WILL MAKE A BOT TO BOTHER YOU 24/7
13:37:00 <oklokok> oerjan: please answer, it's an O(n^2) process
13:37:03 <ehird> jkdhjdkhksjdfAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGJ
13:37:45 <oerjan> oklokok: but but, my plan seems so close to success now!
13:37:48 <oklokok> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
13:37:58 <ehird> oerjan: agu agu agu agu
13:38:09 <oklokok> oerjan: ARE YOU PREPARED TO TAKE THE SQUARE ROOT OF YOUR LIFETIME?
13:39:50 <oklokok> i wasn't being serious mister gloomy pants
13:40:30 <oklokok> iiiiiiiiiiiii wanna do something
13:40:40 <ehird> oklokok: buy a theremin
13:40:46 <ehird> only using one toe
13:42:26 <ehird> i'm not making a porno.
13:43:17 <oklokok> the theremin vid, i wanna hear how much you suck
13:43:28 <oerjan> <ehird> AnMaster: hyperbolic. also, if they are, nothing can replace them. <-- hm, are there no public key algorithms _not_ based on unbreakable factorization or discrete logarithm?
13:43:51 <ehird> i think a quantum computer can break all the secure things we know
13:44:06 <oklokok> there's one based on knapsack afaik
13:44:50 <oerjan> i know it can factorize and do discrete logarithms, i recall it is _not_ known how to solve NP-complete problems with it
13:45:02 <ehird> you can solve them
13:45:09 <AnMaster> oklokok, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle-Hellman that one?
13:45:29 <oklokok> AnMaster: no idea, not even gonna check
13:45:50 <oerjan> we are talking breaking encryption here, obviously only tractable things count
13:46:10 <AnMaster> oklokok, wikipedia claims that it has been broken though
13:46:48 <oklokok> i know pretty much nothing about anything
13:46:56 <ehird> can quantum computers not do NP in NP or sth?
13:47:15 <oklokok> i'm not sure what thatm eans
13:48:39 <ehird> well you were saying like you can't do NP with quantum computers
13:48:41 <ehird> you can't do it in P sure
13:48:44 <ehird> but can't you do it in NP?
13:48:51 <ehird> like do you have to do it in evenslowerthannp or something
13:48:56 <ehird> 13:45 oklokok: subexponential
13:48:56 <ehird> 13:45 oklokok: superpolynomial
13:50:50 <oerjan> ehird: you'd think quantum P algorithms include ordinary P algorithm, so for one interpretation of NP it's sort of obvious
13:51:08 <oerjan> namely, just add guess inputs
13:51:10 <ehird> oh right everything's either P or NP
13:51:12 <ehird> ..................
13:51:15 <ehird> i'm fucking retarded
13:51:19 <ehird> oklokok: hit me on the head with a stick
13:51:50 <ehird> oklokok: oh right, some things are impossible
13:52:29 <oerjan> there are an infinite number of complexity classes above NP
13:53:18 <oerjan> oklokok: we make a good swat team
13:53:27 * AnMaster ponders putting "<ehird> i'm dumb today" in topic.
13:54:58 <oklokok> we should buy like a swat car
13:55:12 <ehird> forget the butler.
13:57:25 <oerjan> <ehird> QUBITS are what QUANTUM COMPUTERS are for. <-- that does not mean all uses of qubits require the most advanced system. quantum encryption doesn't need much computation, just generation of stuff, so 0 Kelvin may not be needed for all i know
13:57:36 <ehird> oerjan: it's not about power
13:57:50 <oerjan> it's about decoherence
13:57:54 <ehird> and superconductivity
13:58:08 <ehird> anyway you can emulate qubits ofc.
13:58:18 <ehird> oerjan: but all quantum computers are based on superconductivity
13:58:23 <ehird> and you need über lower temperatures for that
13:59:18 <oerjan> the point is things like the factorization algorithm is i think _insanely_ sensitive to noise because of the complexity, and quantum encryption is much simpler so might not need that low temperature, is my intuition. of course i don't really know this.
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13:59:34 <ehird> oerjan: that's just decoherence
13:59:37 <ehird> superconductivity is the thing
13:59:44 <ehird> it's not that we'd get messed up answers
13:59:50 <ehird> it just wouldn't run at higher temperatures
14:00:04 <oerjan> there is high-temperature superconductivity in case you didn't know
14:00:39 <ehird> oerjan: but is there a relatively high temperature where we both have a low risk of decoherence AND superconductivity?
14:00:41 <ehird> depends how high high is
14:00:46 <ehird> if really high, then decoherence would fuck shit up
14:00:47 <oerjan> i vaguely recall they got it up past CO2 level
14:01:06 <oerjan> in the latest discovery
14:02:09 <oerjan> ehird: well my point is that the temperature needed to prevent the decoherence part probably depends on how sensitive the use is, and i expect encryption to be much less sensitive than factorization
14:02:25 <ehird> yes, but if it needs to be really high it'll interfere with anything
14:03:21 <oklokok> i should take a course in the quantums
14:03:31 <oerjan> sure, but it's a long step from a millionth of a kelvin to a couple hundred of them
14:03:35 <ehird> too many special cases, oklokok
14:03:38 <ehird> it's not elegant enough :P
14:03:56 <ehird> oerjan: i suppose. even so, quantum computers are still really fucking hard
14:04:19 * oerjan should actually look up this for encryption
14:04:22 <ehird> oklokok: well, it's not very mathematically pure, the fundamental physics. it's just a jumble of crap that happens to work together without any underlying sort of unification
14:04:45 <ehird> it doesn't really describe the fundamental thing behind all these things, it just takes them as axioms, so to speak
14:04:49 <ehird> or at least, that's my impression
14:05:11 <ehird> wish I had $70mil to buy a d-wave
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14:06:48 <oerjan> hm the wp quantum cryptography article says nothing about cooling whatsoever
14:07:08 <ehird> that's a quantum computer issue, though
14:07:14 <ehird> not really related to the cryptography
14:13:30 <oerjan> AnMaster: oh dear jane goodall is a hoax O_O
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14:14:55 <ehird> I went WTF then thought "oh, IWC".
14:19:57 <GregorR> Intensified WHO Cooperation?
14:20:47 <GregorR> Damn that World Health Organization and their fairly arbitrary hoaxes involving naturalists ...
14:21:11 <ehird> Huh, andrew cooke is on lesswrong.
14:23:39 <ehird> i want to be a solipsist missionary when i grow up
14:24:00 <oklokok> so you just go around telling people they don't exist
14:24:08 <oerjan> clearly less wrong thinking needs to be well typed
14:24:38 <ehird> i go around telling people that _I_ don't exist
14:24:41 <ehird> and nor does anybody else but them
14:25:04 <ehird> i wonder if anyone's actually a reverse solipsist
14:25:06 <ehird> everyone exists but me
14:25:14 <ehird> that would be quite a hard belief to keep up :D
14:25:22 <oklokok> sometimes i think none of us exist
14:25:34 <oklokok> just kinda hard to imagine anything would exist
14:25:51 <ehird> oklokok: apart from your consciousness
14:25:54 <ehird> that's quite easy to existimagine
14:26:01 <ehird> you are conscious right :D
14:26:34 <oklokok> i guess i am, i don't see how that proves anything
14:26:44 <ehird> oklokok: also these people i tell that I don't exist and nor does anybody else but them, they don't exist
14:26:54 <ehird> i go around telling people who don't exist that I don't exist and nor does anybody else but them
14:27:52 <oerjan> you could take it one step further
14:28:19 <oerjan> you could go around and tell people only, say, Sarah Palin exists
14:28:57 <ehird> oerjan: that wouldn't make my beliefs inconsistent to what i preach to them, though
14:28:59 <ehird> which is the whole funny part
14:29:17 <GregorR> A solipsist to some arbitrary third party.
14:29:21 <GregorR> I don't exist, I'm his delusion.
14:29:43 <oklokok> oerjan: no, if he'd believe only sarah palin existed as well
14:29:44 <oerjan> i am assuming you don't believe only Sarah Palin exists. i might be going out on a limb here, i realize.
14:30:07 <oklokok> oerjan: he probably preaches what he believes
14:30:09 <GregorR> No, clearly only you exist.
14:30:38 <oklokok> well you are only delusion, obviously, this is irc
14:31:12 <ehird> oerjan: we're talking hypothetical of course
14:31:17 <ehird> saying "you don't exist, only sarah palin does" isn't the same as
14:31:26 <ehird> "You (who doesn't exist, only I do) exist, but nobody else does."
14:32:09 <oklokok> well. edit is tide backwards
14:32:35 <ehird> (diff) (hist) . . BitBitJump; 04:25 . . (+137) . . 203.5.217.3 (Talk) (Undo revision 14895 by Special:Contributions/Oerjan (User talk:Oerjan))
14:32:35 <ehird> (diff) (hist) . . BitBitJump; 02:57 . . (-137) . . Oerjan (Talk | contribs) (The description still makes no sense with infinite cell size, so cannot be Turing complete.)
14:32:38 <ehird> is two edits an edit war?
14:33:09 <oerjan> well when they revert ME, it is
14:34:07 * ehird makes a mental note never to revert oerjan's edits
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15:05:30 <oerjan> someone threw spam in the turing tarpit again
15:08:47 -!- GregorR has set topic: This topic intentionally left blank | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
15:08:54 -!- ehird has set topic: obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
15:09:06 <ehird> the topic rocks. obviously you're stupid who don't understand that
15:10:41 <oerjan> is "don't" grammatically correct there? i could see a language doing it both ways
15:11:22 <ehird> the whole sentence is grammatically incorrect, that's why it's funny
15:11:29 <ehird> "obviously I'm stupid who" ← wrong
15:11:32 <ehird> "who don't" ← wrong
15:11:52 <ehird> specifically, it's funny because it's sarcastically stating that he's stupid, but demonstrates stupidity.
15:11:57 * oerjan doesn't get why the first part is wrong
15:12:17 <oerjan> obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that
15:13:06 <ehird> "obviously I'm stupid", stupid is an adjective
15:13:23 <ehird> "obviously I'm stupid and" would work
15:13:28 <ehird> "obviously I'm a stupid person who" would also
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15:13:49 <oerjan> ah interesting. the corresponding norwegian is entirely correct.
15:14:08 <oerjan> but we don't require adjectives to be embellished to be used as simple nouns
15:14:11 <fizzie> Helloes. Seems that the box where my bouncer is died on me.
15:14:16 <fizzie> fungot: Are you still alive, though?
15:14:16 <fungot> fizzie: so then define adds a binding to that frame pointers for old frames will be freed. in c, fnord
15:14:39 <GregorR> It just needs a comma and a "doesn't"
15:14:49 <fizzie> "In C, fnord." Yes. Well, it's not the ISP's fault then.
15:15:22 <ehird> "obviously I'm Stupid Who; don't understand that?"
15:15:46 <GregorR> Yes ... that was a comma, "doesn't" and question mark.
15:25:29 <oklokok> oerjan: ah interesting. the corresponding norwegian is entirely correct. <<< same finnish too
15:25:39 <oklokok> well at least not entirely wrong
15:26:28 <AnMaster> oerjan, hi, was away. and I read iwc long before you said that today.
15:26:31 <ehird> Prolly same swedish then too.
15:26:47 <oklokok> GregorR: where would you put the comma?
15:26:48 <ehird> Heh. The random slogan I got on http://seaside.st/ is "This is not how the web works." Such snarky guys.
15:27:05 <GregorR> oklokok: Not below a dot, turning it into a semicolon :P
15:27:18 <oklokok> "obviously i'm stupid, who doesn't understand that"
15:27:52 <GregorR> obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that
15:27:58 <ehird> Obviously I'm stupid Who Don; T understand that?
15:28:41 * oklokok checks if he actually meant to say that.
15:29:34 <oklokok> AnMaster: ehird, obviously I'm stupid who don't understand that, so please inform me. <<< can't mean that in the context
15:29:42 <fizzie> Obviously I'm Stu. π/d, who don't understand that.
15:29:47 <ehird> i think GregorR was the joking
15:30:14 <ehird> Obviously I'm stew. PID who — don't understand that?
15:30:28 <AnMaster> is this the day of misunderstandments or what?
15:30:43 <ehird> Misunderstandments is quite unwordy.
15:30:44 <oklokok> i thought you said misunderstatements
15:30:45 <GregorR> AnMaster: obviously I'm misunderstanding who don't understand that
15:30:51 <fizzie> Don't you misunderestimate me.
15:31:34 <ehird> There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
15:32:32 <GregorR> WHO THE FUCK SCREWS THAT UP
15:33:03 <fizzie> The misunderestimating thing was.
15:33:13 <ehird> fizzie: mine was too.
15:33:27 <ehird> Someone should remix the Who song to have that.
15:34:33 <GregorR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A
15:35:28 <oerjan> misunderestimate me once...
15:35:41 <ehird> We cannot handle that much stupid in one sentence.
15:35:50 <GregorR> STUPID FILTERS ON OVERLOAD
15:35:58 <ehird> I hypothesize that all the bushisms in one would destroy the universe just by existing.
15:36:20 <oerjan> ehird: we think so much alike, you and i
15:36:40 <oerjan> except for the bitching, that is.
15:37:49 <ehird> "Squeak Smalltalk and Cincom VisualWorks both provide distributed development tools similar to got or mercurial"
15:38:15 <GregorR> I was gonna git got, but I got git instead.
15:38:35 <oerjan> hm only one google hit for "misunderestimate me once"
15:38:55 <ehird> http://www.pharo-project.org/pictures/bc/ye4zb2kumqhtmjlkxg4opq1zk1y2rm/iphone-720.png ← THE DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT OF THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUTUUUUUUUUUREEEEEEEE
15:39:09 <oerjan> ehird: it wasn't quite a slow clap, then?
15:39:15 <ehird> oerjan: in quotes?
15:39:20 <ehird> if not in quotes isn't that a googlewhack?
15:39:30 <ehird> oerjan: "* ehird clap clap clap" sounds slow to me
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15:41:08 <oerjan> > fun.concat.iterate(' ':)$"clap" :: Expr
15:41:09 <lambdabot> clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap ...
15:41:56 <oerjan> those first spaces sort of ruined it
15:43:27 <oerjan> ehird: oh, in quotes yes
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15:43:44 <oklokok> ehird: so that vid we were discussing
15:43:56 <ehird> I'm just not ready for a career in porn.
15:44:00 <ehird> (I still find that funny)
15:44:13 <ehird> 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planck times
15:44:17 <ehird> `wolfram 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planck times in hours
15:44:21 <ehird> `wolfram 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planck times in months
15:44:22 <oerjan> about 5 years i would guess
15:44:24 <ehird> `wolfram 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planck times in years
15:44:27 <HackEgo> 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planck times in months \ Input interpretation: \ \ convert 20 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 Planck times to months \ Result: \ \ 4.103 1023 months \ Additional conversions: 30 \
15:44:31 <HackEgo> 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planck times in hours \ Input interpretation: \ \ convert 20 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 Planck times to hours \ Result: \ \ 2.995 1026 hours \ Additional conversions: 30 \ \ 1.078
15:44:46 <ehird> Fuck It I'll Use The Site.
15:45:08 <ehird> oerjan: well actually
15:45:16 <ehird> oerjan: it's 2.5 x 10^12 x universe age (1 universe age)
15:45:19 * ehird lols @ 1 universe age
15:45:37 <ehird> 3.419 x 10^19 millennia :D
15:45:48 <ehird> oerjan: 3.419 x 10^13 eons apparently
15:45:55 <ehird> > logBase 2 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
15:46:02 <ehird> 256 bits should be enough for anyone.
15:46:16 <ehird> it'll be done before the heat death of the universe
15:46:30 <oklokok> maybe even faster than that
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15:52:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, iirc there was some fingerprint containing some instruction like ? but that changed to one of ^v<> when an IP first executed it?
15:52:40 <AnMaster> However I can't find which fingerprint
15:53:18 <AnMaster> any idea of which it was? Or did I just imagine that existed?
15:54:01 <AnMaster> ah right. I just realised I need to add a note how that instruction works when ATHR is used
15:54:42 <Deewiant> Err, you sure you can't generalize it beyond mentioning a specific instruction like that
15:55:16 <Deewiant> http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/TOYS.html
15:55:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, self-modifying instructions might get executed by more than one ip before the changes are visible to other threads?
15:55:51 <Deewiant> Any instructions that change Funge-Space, no?
15:56:07 <AnMaster> true, that is generalised already hm
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16:07:34 <ehird> i want continuations in all languages, dammit.
16:07:44 <ehird> i'd use haskell but it feels awkward to do such imperative things.
16:09:05 <pikhq> ehird: C++ LISTENS!
16:09:19 <ehird> pikhq: Closures are not continuations.
16:09:24 <ehird> Please stop confusing them.
16:09:37 <pikhq> It's not the concepts, it's the words, BTW.
16:09:51 <pikhq> I realise that they're different, I just keep on sticking the wrong words on them. ;)
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16:21:04 <ehird> 16:20 Lil`Cube: .:11:20:. CTCP PING reply from ehird: -262742.-55 seconds
16:22:04 <ehird> 16:21 Lil`Cube: .:11:21:. CTCP PING reply from Dylan: 2130784.703 seconds
16:32:43 <oerjan> those time traveling cubes are weird
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18:29:39 * pikhq hath new hard drive
18:29:52 <pikhq> Will do LVM fiddling post-work.
18:31:55 <oklokok> but with closures, you can do cps, not needing explicit continuations
18:32:45 <pikhq> Indeed. It's not a great way of doing it, but it works.
18:33:42 <oklokok> i'm going to watch tv now :o
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19:22:27 <sgeo> http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-3226-07-29
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20:08:58 <AnMaster> <pikhq> I realise that they're different, I just keep on sticking the wrong words on them. ;) <-- same as me yeah
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20:50:30 <oklokok> you two do realize both have kinda descriptive names.
20:56:00 <oklokok> anyway, have you heard about this theremin thing
20:56:27 <AnMaster> there was lots of talk about theremins yesterday
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21:22:38 <ehird> http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/dan/7-15-09/DoneHam.jpg
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21:51:34 <ehird> > let foop (x:xs) = x : last xs : foop (take (length xs - 1) xs) in foop "abcdefg"
21:51:36 <lambdabot> "agbfced* Exception: Prelude.last: empty list
21:51:44 <ehird> > let foop [] = []; foop (x:xs) = x : last xs : foop (take (length xs - 1) xs) in foop "abcdefg"
21:51:45 <lambdabot> "agbfced* Exception: Prelude.last: empty list
21:51:51 <ehird> > let foop [] = []; foop [x] = [x]; foop (x:xs) = x : last xs : foop (take (length xs - 1) xs) in foop "abcdefg"
21:55:44 <fizzie> Though I think this was done already.
21:59:54 <fizzie> (Okay, so I cheated a tiny tiny little miniscule bit by temporarily altering the unscramblation definition.)
22:06:24 <AnMaster> why did it say "<fungot> Too much entropy. :/" there then?
22:06:25 <fungot> AnMaster: maybe like this: a=0, b=1, a=b+a, fnord, fnord
22:06:59 <ehird> 21:59 fizzie: (Okay, so I cheated a tiny tiny little miniscule bit by temporarily altering the unscramblation definition.)
22:07:28 <ehird> Don't you hate it when I logread and reply before reading on?
22:07:31 <ehird> Hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyypocrite.
22:07:57 <AnMaster> ehird, I was just trying to demonstrate to you why other people are irritated by it.
22:08:12 <AnMaster> thus I didn't read it all at once this time
22:08:14 <ehird> Reeeeeeeeeeeeetcoooooooooooooooon.
22:08:28 <AnMaster> ehird, you are free to believe what you want. *shrug*
22:10:54 <ehird> AnMaster: Hey, that's what I said to you after faking the Tanasinn page screensh— er.
22:11:09 <ehird> (Hey, you did half-believe that it might be scrambling pages or not based on the IP at the end.)
22:11:37 <AnMaster> ehird, actually mostly half-agreed to that just to end the argument, being tired of you.
22:11:51 * ehird signs. Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetcoooooon.
22:12:01 <AnMaster> ehird, Note that I wasn't sure.
22:12:18 <ehird> Yes, but I strung you on for quite a while and made you doubt something.
22:12:28 <ehird> Therefore, successful troll is successful.
22:12:40 <AnMaster> ehird, we all know you are a troll
22:13:26 <ehird> I think you can only say that with an overly general definition of troll.
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22:36:11 <AnMaster> Hm if you need integer arithmetics, and only have normal integer division/reminder/multiplication and so on, what is the best way to implement a division that rounds upwards instead of downwards.
22:36:27 <AnMaster> I can't use floating point due to precision issues.
22:38:46 <AnMaster> something like (C syntax, ignoring overflow): a = x / y; b = x % y; if (b == 0) return a; else return a+1; ?
22:39:01 <AnMaster> only need to work for non-negative numbers btw
22:40:13 <pikhq> For GNU C, just that.
22:40:23 <pikhq> (standard C is not guaranteed to round up or down)
22:40:44 <AnMaster> pikhq, I'm not actually implementing in C. just used C for clarity.
22:41:13 <pikhq> Sorry, that's C90. C99 guarantees it rounds towards 0.
22:42:27 <AnMaster> pikhq, for integer arithmetics?
22:42:57 <AnMaster> I knew it was a bit unclear for floating point, but for integer arithmetics too?!
22:43:18 <pikhq> Implementation-defined = fun.
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22:58:07 <zzo38> I have now written the BlooP/FlooP basic functions in Suxesol, to show that successor function is all that is necessary to implement these
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23:05:04 <fizzie> For reasonable x, y, you can just (x+y-1)/y. With the standard truncating division that works. For k*y you get (k*y+y-1)/y = k (since the (y-1)/y part is 0) and for k*y+1 it's (k*y+1+y-1)/y = ((k+1)*y)/y = k+1.
23:05:50 <fizzie> And obviously (k*y+n)/y rounds up to k+1 for any n in the [1, y] range.
23:15:31 <fizzie> And FWIW, at least the C89 draft at least specifices the truncating division. "When integers are divided and the division is inexact, if both operands are positive the result of the / operator is the largest integer less than the algebraic quotient --". What is implementation-defined is what happens when there are negative numbers, which you said you don't care about.
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23:36:05 <AnMaster> "<fizzie> For reasonable x, y" <-- when you are back, what do you define as "reasonable" here?
23:37:23 <AnMaster> all I know is that x and y are both positive integers. Which one is largest is unknown, but it is quite possible to have 5 / 1000000 or similar.
23:37:34 <AnMaster> in case that was what you meant as "unreasonable"
23:41:54 <ehird> y=0 is unreasonable, I assume.
23:43:04 <GregorR> He said "positive", not non-negative.
23:43:19 <ehird> And also negative.
23:44:00 <AnMaster> GregorR, The way I heard it matches what you said.
23:44:13 <AnMaster> that is, 0 being neither positive or negative
23:44:22 <GregorR> ehird: Wikipedia says "0 is neither positive nor negative."
23:45:05 <ehird> your mom is a butt.