00:00:34 <AnMaster> I'd guess 2^256 is larger. Possibly
00:00:45 <oerjan> 1.157920892373162e77 < 1e100, pretty clearly
00:01:17 <AnMaster> oerjan, how many bits do you need for 1e100
00:01:19 <oerjan> but not that far, 2^512 is larger
00:01:51 <ehird> http://www.nijoruj.org/~as/2009/04/20/A-little-fun.html // wow, you can translate Haskell → SML
00:01:57 <AnMaster> why does log work for that I wonder. I remember even using that when coding
00:02:05 <ehird> AnMaster: it's the definition of log...
00:02:18 <ehird> normal log is just "how many digits do we need in base e"
00:02:19 <oerjan> AnMaster: a^(logBase a b) = b when a,b > 0
00:03:51 <AnMaster> how do you *manually* calculate log?
00:04:18 <oerjan> AnMaster: although to be fair, defining a^b for non-integer b might just as well be done by going via logarithms
00:04:41 * ehird o O ( what is up with Swedish mathematics education? )
00:04:46 * ehird . o O ( what is up with Swedish mathematics education? )
00:05:06 <ehird> AnMaster: you know roughly the same mathematics as i did when i was ~9 :S
00:05:14 <oerjan> using natural log and exp
00:05:22 <AnMaster> ehird, wasn't there some study some time ago saying we were worst in EU at math education
00:05:30 <oerjan> but any other > 0 base works too
00:05:38 <pikhq> AnMaster: And you're still better than the US.
00:06:01 <pikhq> 'log' comes up alongside pre-calculus.
00:06:10 <ehird> Doesn't the US start calculus at university level?
00:06:22 <AnMaster> I know how to use log. I just don't understand why it works always.
00:06:42 <pikhq> Smarter students take it in high school.
00:06:44 <pikhq> Their senior year.
00:06:52 <AnMaster> and that is the issue, if I don't understand "why" I tend to not learn very well.
00:07:00 <pikhq> I am one of a small handful of American students to have done it *before* then.
00:07:07 <ehird> i actually didn't know any calculus until recently, but getting what "what" took me about 5 minutes
00:07:09 <oerjan> AnMaster: there's a taylor series for natural log, is one way (but it converges only in a small interval iirc)
00:07:17 <ehird> it's rather trivial if you know what a function is...
00:07:25 <pikhq> ehird: And you're 14.
00:07:41 <oerjan> but i think computers use more clever methods
00:07:58 <AnMaster> I do know some calculus. I can do integration and such.
00:08:09 <pikhq> ehird: That puts you in the 99.99999999th percentile in the US.
00:08:29 <oerjan> and you can do it _less_ cleverly too, in a way that's easy to do for integer base logs
00:08:34 <ehird> Incidentally, I'm useless at mental arithmetic. And I mean useless.
00:08:45 <ehird> If you ask me to multiply two non-trivial numbers, I'll sit gawping for hours.
00:08:51 <ehird> And I have no ida why.
00:09:01 <ehird> It's always confused me.
00:09:11 <pikhq> US students are increasingly useless at pen-and-paper arithmetic.
00:09:12 <AnMaster> oerjan, isn't a taylor series a polynomial approximation or something iirc?
00:09:21 <AnMaster> and I didn't read that in school...
00:09:24 <pikhq> The prevailing philosophy is that a calculator suffices.
00:09:29 <oerjan> AnMaster: it's a limit of polynomial approximations
00:09:39 <ehird> pikhq: I guess Idiocracy wasn't fiction.
00:09:56 <pikhq> ehird: No, we're not quite that bad yet.
00:10:06 <pikhq> However, it's trivial extrapolation.
00:10:06 <ehird> It isn't set in the present day.
00:10:07 <AnMaster> <ehird> Incidentally, I'm useless at mental arithmetic. And I mean useless. <-- same here
00:10:13 <oerjan> lessee, you get it by integrating the series for 1/(1+x) = 1 - x + x^2 - x^3 + ... iirc
00:10:14 <AnMaster> ehird, I can do it on paper though
00:10:32 <AnMaster> though division on paper is a pain
00:10:45 <oerjan> giving log (1+x) = x - x^2/2 + x^3/3 - x^4/4 + ...
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00:11:02 <ehird> this ambient mix is wonderful.
00:11:13 <oerjan> works for -1 < x < 1, i think
00:11:28 <ehird> oerjan: that's not the most useful range :-D
00:11:32 <oerjan> but converges slower near the edges
00:11:57 <oerjan> ehird: you can always rescale...
00:12:23 <oerjan> ehird: also, that gives you logs from (0, 2)
00:12:38 <ehird> A VERY SCARY THING BUT NOT FOR THE REASON YOU THINK:
00:12:43 <oerjan> so just do log (1/x) = - log x for the rest
00:12:44 <ehird> "The average IQ just dropped!"
00:12:58 <AnMaster> ehird, in what collection of people?
00:13:26 <oerjan> ehird: since average IQ is recalibrated to 100 regularly afaik...
00:13:27 <AnMaster> ehird, I mean, in here, or worldwide?
00:13:32 <pikhq> ehird: Context is needed to tell whether or not that is dumbtarded.
00:13:32 <ehird> oerjan: THAT'S THE JOKE
00:13:39 <ehird> The average IQ is defined as 100.
00:13:46 <ehird> pikhq: Well, I've heard it before; but I made this one up for A JOKE.
00:13:49 <pikhq> For the full human population.
00:14:16 <AnMaster> this makes comparing absolute IQ over time harder
00:14:39 <ehird> IQ is entirely based on average=100.
00:14:57 <pikhq> average=100, and the other scores are a bell curve.
00:15:13 <AnMaster> like "am I smarter than Einstein was" (assuming his IQ is known), that is hard if it has since been recalibrated.
00:15:28 <ehird> IQ is a relative score, AnMaster.
00:15:49 <AnMaster> ehird, yes. but what is the absolute measure if you need that?
00:16:01 <ehird> erm… let me get this straight
00:16:08 <ehird> you want an absolute measure of IQ for times 0→infinity
00:16:27 <ehird> and you would like to ignore that this isn't even a meaningful score?
00:16:35 <AnMaster> ehird, ... I just wonder how you compare intelligence over time
00:16:47 <AnMaster> say, present day and 100 years in the future
00:17:06 <ehird> genius is relative
00:17:07 <AnMaster> ehird, right, but where can one find the needed info for that
00:17:10 <ehird> also, IQ != genius
00:17:19 <ehird> IQ is just pattern matching ability.
00:17:37 <ehird> AnMaster: depends on how it's most recently been recalibrated.
00:17:39 <AnMaster> ehird, two people having high IQ in two different periods of time.
00:17:55 <AnMaster> seeing which of them had highest IQ
00:18:15 <pikhq> Note that IQ has only a loose association with intelligence.
00:18:29 <ehird> It would be nice if people stopped using it.
00:18:46 <AnMaster> GregorR, fix superscripts in `wolfram please?
00:18:49 <pikhq> (we can say that someone with an IQ of 150 is likely more intelligent than someone with an IQ of 60. ... Yeah, that's about as much information as you get.)
00:20:49 <AnMaster> hm... who was it that wrote "The IQ of the mob is equal to the IQ of the member of the mob with the lowest IQ divided by the number of members in the mob"?
00:23:58 <oerjan> AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
00:24:24 <oerjan> so someone obviously has compared IQ tests over time
00:25:29 <AnMaster> "The revised versions are standardized on new samples and scored with respect to those samples alone, so the only way to compare the difficulty of two versions of a test is to conduct a separate study in which the same subjects take both versions.[2] Doing so confirms IQ gains over time."
00:28:15 <Sgeo> "Enforced consistent convention: Two pieces of code that are syntax-identical must be character-identical also, and this must be enforced, not simply convention."
00:28:38 <Sgeo> Is that even possible? Does that even make sense?
00:28:44 <Sgeo> Hm, I'm sure it's possible
00:28:54 <Sgeo> But seems to me that it would lead to insanity
00:29:02 <ehird> Sgeo: Brainfuck minus comments?
00:29:07 <AnMaster> Sgeo, whereis that quote from?
00:29:08 <ehird> ,[.,] is the only way to represent that AST.
00:29:11 <ehird> Also, what AnMaster said.
00:29:14 <Sgeo> http://www.warrenfalk.com/blog/programming-language-reinvention/
00:29:30 <AnMaster> <ehird> Also, what AnMaster said. <-- first time you said that iirc
00:29:47 <ehird> Sgeo: wow, this language sucks
00:30:14 <ehird> No ability to customize compiler operation
00:30:14 <ehird> There is no way to customize the compilation process with your own code. I would like it if a compiler (and probably IDE also) would recognize certain attributes as being custom implementations of compiler functions or precompilers. In fact things like field-wrapping could actually be accomplished this way.
00:30:44 <AnMaster> that link seems to be major wtf
00:30:44 <oerjan> Sgeo: i assume it means only spacing and indentation stuff, not actual variable/function naming...
00:31:00 <ehird> AnMaster: this is why you don't let "practical" programmers design things.
00:31:12 <Sgeo> What I quoted is the only wtf I see
00:31:21 <Sgeo> But then again, I'm no language designer
00:31:21 <ehird> Sgeo: your mind has melted away.
00:31:27 <ehird> it's all suck, suck and more suck
00:31:54 <ehird> maybe they call 'em code monkeys because they monkey up code
00:32:08 <ehird> "readers are plentiful, thinkers are rare" ← and you're not one of them
00:33:26 <AnMaster> "Besides just being a syntactic shortcut, a with construct is also an optimization as it doesn’t require loading the same reference on the stack for every member call."
00:33:37 <ehird> AnMaster: he's thinking extremely low-level
00:34:01 <AnMaster> ehird, he is talking about C#. You can't do that sort of stuff that would mess up that optimisation in C#
00:34:01 <ehird> AnMaster: here, he thinks we have to load the 'foo' reference on the stack twice
00:34:12 <ehird> AnMaster: these people hate sufficiently smart compilers
00:34:18 <ehird> optimization is brittle, they sez.
00:34:32 <ehird> "we must tell the compiler what we mean" is stupid, they sez. we must instead tell it exactly how to do it, they sex.
00:34:44 <AnMaster> ehird, this would be true for C *if and only if* the variable was volatile. Even a C compiler would otherwise optimise it.
00:34:57 <Sgeo> So, answering this guy's questions about nomic is not a good idea?
00:35:02 <ehird> AnMaster: BUT WE CAN'T RELY ON THAAAAAAAAAT
00:35:08 <ehird> Sgeo: Waste your time if you want
00:35:13 <AnMaster> ehird, right. You can use -O0 if you want
00:37:14 <AnMaster> "I propose that the anonymous delegate ability be kept, and that you also be able to simply pass a function name as a parameter where a delegate is required and the compiler will take care of emitting the “new” construct." <-- that is actually semi-sane. He is suggesting functional programming there.
00:38:05 <ehird> it's a totally insane form
00:39:17 <AnMaster> "Cannot return a reference to a field declaration [...] The reason the above can’t be done is because you cannot return the structure as a reference. I see no reason to be unable to do this however, except that returning references to variables would break if you tried to pass back a reference to a local variable, or some other variable in unmanaged storage. But this could be done if the compiler
00:39:17 <AnMaster> simply forbade the illegal usage." <-- err. To begin with: structs in .NET/mono are immutable and copy-on-write as far as I remember.
00:39:33 <AnMaster> which is why you can't much around with references to them
00:41:06 <Sgeo> If I comment on a blog entry, will this guy be emailed?
00:41:19 <AnMaster> ehird, ok one good point: "Unable to specify different implementations in generics based on whether the type is a reference type vs. a value type." <-- it seems to me, that this shouldn't matter for a programmer.
00:41:49 <AnMaster> the language should provide the same inference, I as a user of the language shouldn't need to care
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00:43:39 <AnMaster> "My proposition is to cordon off a set of characters that can be used in operators (e.g. & | + – * . ~ $ % ^ / ? = > < !) and set up the lexer to recognize any group of these characters as an operator." <-- I hate operator overloading already
00:44:17 <AnMaster> allowing users to invent new ones won't help
00:44:37 <ehird> Operator overloading is only bad if you abuse it stupdily and make things overloadable operators that aren't.
00:44:43 <ehird> Also, Haskell has "invented" operators.
00:44:53 <ehird> Moreover, your commentary is not particularly interesting.
00:45:02 <AnMaster> ehird, there will always be someone who abuse it
00:45:14 <ehird> AnMaster: Your thinking leads to Java.
00:45:33 <ehird> Please remove the toxic waste from your brain or cease such poisonous thinking activities at your nearest convenience.
00:45:34 <AnMaster> ehird, there will always be someone to abuse the programmer as well
00:45:52 <AnMaster> so I agree with you here ehird. Partly
00:45:53 <ehird> If you require assistance with the latter, please see your local government-sponsored euthanasia booth.
00:45:59 <ehird> AnMaster: Haskell does it RIGHT.
00:46:04 <Sgeo> How many applets are written in Jython?
00:46:07 <ehird> You can't make "foo" + "globbin" mean 42.
00:46:20 <ehird> You can define a new (+) for a new type that takes two of that type and gives a new one.
00:46:27 <ehird> You also have to make a full Num instance.
00:46:32 <ehird> That means implementing every base numeric method.
00:46:36 <AnMaster> "Note: This may seem strange at first for delegates which have such a concise definition, but there’s no great loss in making every delegate its own tiny file. Any clumsiness this may seem to cause should be overcome in the IDE." <-- blink. Blink.
00:46:38 <ehird> And you're expected to follow the laws.
00:46:45 <ehird> So (+) is addition, not just a meaningless operator.
00:46:48 <ehird> But it's also overloadable.
00:46:58 <ehird> Sgeo: haven't seen any in the wild
00:47:07 <ehird> AnMaster: Yeah, that's the mindset of C#/Javaheads
00:47:40 <Sgeo> ....now that, I see the stupidity in quite clearly
00:47:51 <AnMaster> actually it is good for one thing
00:47:57 <Sgeo> Forcing an IDE on the programmer to maintain the programmer's sanity? WTF?
00:47:58 <AnMaster> it allows compiler to find stuff easily
00:48:09 <ehird> Sgeo: that's exactly what java coders do
00:48:28 <AnMaster> just saying that is a possible way to explain it away
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00:48:51 <AnMaster> "With curly braces and semicolons, it is possible to construct a C# program on one single line. This would appear to be the most worthless feature of the language. Its pros are nil and its cons are: 1) it allows every programmer to invent his own convention for formatting which, as it turns out, is more unique than a fingerprint, and 2) it simply requires extra typing (and with curly braces, require
00:48:51 <AnMaster> s the combination of fairly obscure keys and a shift modifier)."
00:48:57 <Sgeo> Although I guess DM..
00:48:58 <AnMaster> he is about to invent python too
00:49:17 <Sgeo> He mentions Python in the page
00:49:41 * Sgeo wonders how much of a WTF this channel would find DM to be
00:49:50 <coppro> but seriously, formatting needs to be liquid. There is no good "one size fits all" formatting style
00:49:59 <Sgeo> http://www.warrenfalk.com/blog/programming-language-reinvention/ (not DM)
00:50:17 <Sgeo> DM = Dream Maker, the language used by BYOND games
00:51:14 <Sgeo> http://www.byond.com/docs/guide/ and http://www.byond.com/docs/ref/
00:51:34 * coppro thought DM was DangerMouse
00:51:38 <ehird> I thought he disappeared.
00:51:52 <Sgeo> ehird, JRChat being dead doesn't mean he disappeared
00:51:57 <ehird> I heard he disappeared.
00:52:03 <ehird> Off the interwebs.
00:52:32 <Sgeo> JRChat == Creatures fan chat
00:52:44 <AnMaster> * coppro thought DM was DangerMouse <-- that is DMM iirc?
00:52:54 <Sgeo> http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/JRChat
00:53:07 <ehird> Lummox JR was some Creatures community douchebag :-P
00:53:22 <coppro> AnMaster: given that dangermouse.net is "DM's Home Page", I'd say no
00:53:22 <ehird> Who thought that desktop linux users were just doing it to be different because obviously windows is so much better.
00:53:26 <ehird> Least that's what Dylan tells me.
00:54:08 <AnMaster> DM = DMM = David Morgan-Mar though
00:54:47 <Sgeo> Can we get to the WTFs about BYOND, and not the WTFs about LJR?
00:56:06 <AnMaster> Sgeo, a bit like python when it comes to indention? Seems rather well structured?
00:57:01 <ehird> yeah it looks fine
00:57:26 * Sgeo doesn't know why he assumed it would be WTFy
00:57:35 <Sgeo> I used it, but a very long time ago
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00:57:43 <AnMaster> it supports braces too it seems
00:57:51 <AnMaster> http://www.byond.com/docs/guide/chap02.html
00:58:12 <coppro> the only real wtf there is that he proposes getting rid of the ternary operator "only if a way to avoid the code duplication of not using it can be developed"
00:58:33 <AnMaster> coppro, there are lots of other ones
00:58:38 <coppro> but that's the big one
00:58:43 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> "Note: This may seem strange at first for delegates which have such a concise definition, but there’s no great loss in making every delegate its own tiny file. Any clumsiness this may seem to cause should be overcome in the IDE." <-- blink. Blink.
00:58:49 <AnMaster> coppro, I think that is the big one
00:59:03 <ehird> Enforced consistent convention: Two pieces of code that are syntax-identical must be character-identical also, and this must be enforced, not simply convention.
00:59:06 <ehird> you have to think about that
00:59:09 <ehird> one AST ←→ one string
00:59:18 <ehird> this guy clearly knows nothing about languages
01:00:45 <coppro> actually, found another one
01:00:46 <AnMaster> coppro, in a .NET/C# context references to struct members is also very wtf
01:00:58 <coppro> I don't know about that enough to comment
01:01:04 <AnMaster> coppro, this is harder to spot, but I used to code in .NET/mono a long time agop
01:01:07 <coppro> "# Note: For case-mangling operating systems, such as Windows 95/98/Me, this simply won’t work, but I’m favoring sacrificing compilability on these platforms."
01:01:35 <AnMaster> comex, the issue is structs are copy-on-write, so references to them would change existing ones. Which would be madness
01:01:38 <Warrigal> GregorR: hey, the stamp-licking was only to get your attention so that you would notice my suggestion.
01:01:51 * ehird licks Warrigal's stamps,
01:02:00 <ehird> I don't know what that implies
01:02:23 <AnMaster> ehird, why are you escaping the ,
01:02:52 * coppro wants a language with first-class types
01:03:12 <coppro> of course it's been done
01:03:17 <ehird> coppro: dependent types, yeah
01:03:21 <ehird> AnMaster: it's way more than one language
01:03:32 <ehird> coppro: it's haskell + dependent types + other stuff + a bit of suck
01:03:36 <ehird> also you have to use emacs
01:03:40 <ehird> and syntax highlighting happens in batch
01:03:42 <ehird> but it's kinda fun
01:03:52 <ehird> it's a good language
01:04:00 <ehird> AnMaster: "not using is highly painful and involves huge command lines"
01:04:05 <ehird> its development style is highly integrated
01:04:10 <ehird> and involves a lot of not-quite-code
01:04:31 <AnMaster> "<ehird> and syntax highlighting happens in batch <-- I have seen that before. A bit irritating but nothing you can't live with
01:04:49 <ehird> AnMaster: i mean, you have to press a key to highlight syntax, and the code has to be valid
01:04:59 <ehird> (you can use holes, though, to represent uncompleted code)
01:05:08 <ehird> (and I'm not sure holes are part of the language vs the emacs mode)
01:05:16 <ehird> (it's essentially an emacs mode, really)
01:05:25 <AnMaster> ehird, oh like the old apple script editor
01:05:57 <ehird> nope still like that
01:06:11 <AnMaster> ehird, ah... why didn't they replace it with xcode or something
01:06:41 <AnMaster> you are doing an implicit one right now
01:06:41 <ehird> AnMaster: it's for simple stuff
01:06:43 <ehird> xcode is a full IDE
01:07:02 <ehird> Warrigal: i'd demand you logically justify that like you do me but i'm not enough of a dick.
01:07:13 <AnMaster> Warrigal, either 1) PRIVMSG #esoteric :But /msg scares me. 2) PRIVMSG GregorR :But /msg scares me.
01:07:24 <AnMaster> that is what your client would send
01:07:43 <Warrigal> I suffered a near-fatal glutamic acid overdose when I was a child and still--I mean, it seems excessive; it tends to annoy me when people send me /msgs.
01:07:54 <Warrigal> So when you told me to use /msg, you were telling me to send a PRIVMSG, which is what I did?
01:08:09 <AnMaster> Warrigal, send a private one directed at Gracenotes
01:08:28 <Warrigal> Directed private messages scare me, is what I meant.
01:08:37 <ehird> Warrigal: It annoys me when people use public channels as private messages.
01:08:43 <ehird> Because nobody. else. cares.
01:08:52 <AnMaster> Warrigal, better than being scared by directed acyclic graphs
01:09:36 <AnMaster> I fail to see what "glutamic acid" has to do with /msg
01:09:45 <ehird> Whooooooooooooooooooosh
01:09:50 <ehird> It was Warrigal's way of dodging your question with a joke.
01:09:53 <Warrigal> MSG is a salt of glutamic acid.
01:10:11 <AnMaster> ehird, what would the -- mean? "no more flags, only plain arguments"?
01:10:13 <ehird> Ironically, Warrigal has been annoyed at me for not answering eir questions post-jokes.
01:10:22 <ehird> e also appears to be ignoring me.
01:10:22 <AnMaster> Warrigal, it is? ok, didn't know
01:10:42 <Sgeo> That reminds me: I love Triangle and Robert!
01:11:05 <AnMaster> Warrigal, are you ignoring ehird?
01:12:02 * AnMaster makes a note not to relay any messages by mistake
01:13:15 <AnMaster> Warrigal, anyway, care to give a serious reason for wanting to avoid private directed /msg?
01:14:05 <Warrigal> I guess what I see is people talking to each other over channels, not /msg.
01:14:21 <Warrigal> And it annoys me when people /msg me with no particular purpose in mind.
01:14:49 <AnMaster> but I assumed you *did* have a purpose
01:15:18 <Warrigal> Consciously, I recognize the difference between "I think you should change HackEgo's behavior to this" and "hi".
01:15:52 <AnMaster> Warrigal, even worse is the "who are you?" one
01:17:40 <Sgeo> Basic Instructions is back up
01:17:47 <Warrigal> "I could almost certainly answer that question better if I knew your purpose in asking it. If you're just curious, then know me as an amateur mathematician."
01:19:14 <Warrigal> Or "an amateur mathematician, linguist, and economist--as, being an amateur, I am not restricted to one field."
01:19:39 <AnMaster> Warrigal, I tend to never answer random messages
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02:24:36 <ehird> L1 - The files are on your desk.
02:24:36 <ehird> L2 - The files are in your filing cabinet.
02:24:38 <ehird> RAM - The files are in a cabinet 10 floors below you. Take the stairs.
02:24:40 <ehird> HD - The files are on the other side of the continent. Take the wheelbarrow.
02:25:07 <ehird> "So it's more like, an SSD is getting the ingredients overnighted, and the hard drive is having to breed the perfect strain of lettuce, tomatos and onions over the course of six years."
02:26:18 <Sgeo> Getting random numbers probably shouldn't involve getting files from the other side of the continent when you can make what you need right there
02:26:33 <pikhq> And the Internet for me is like sending a bunch of human babies to some random (life-sustaining) planet and waiting for them to invent the sandwich.
02:26:45 <ehird> pikhq: you could make that into a porno
02:26:52 <ehird> that doesn't even MAKE SENSE.
02:26:55 <ehird> why did I type that?
02:27:42 <oerjan> ehird: well, you _could_ make that into a porno. you might not want to, but that's a different issue.
02:27:47 <ehird> you're sort of a dok.
02:28:34 <oklodok> i know what i need to know.
02:28:39 <ehird> oklodok: quick, integrate the integration of sin(x)/glorble(x)^glio(2x)
02:28:46 <oklodok> i watched american pie - the wedding tonight
02:29:16 <ehird> how is calculus unmath
02:29:25 <oklodok> but all expressions involving the glio function integrate into the glio function.
02:29:37 <oklodok> and no, calculus is very unny math.
02:30:12 <ehird> but how is it unny math.
02:30:48 <oklodok> maybe it's because it's about numbers
02:30:53 <oklodok> and definitely because it's about real numbers
02:32:31 <oklodok> well, i do like the beginning of calculus, just not what it becomes.
02:32:41 <ehird> well mine is very beginning!
02:32:51 <ehird> SO ANSWER MY QUESTION also supply definitions of glorble(x) and glio(x)
02:33:14 <oklodok> limits, epsilons, AoC = good; integration, derivation = un.
02:33:35 <oklodok> glio is actually a special form.
02:33:59 <oklodok> and by "mine is very beginning" do you mean you're starting to learn calculus?
02:34:11 <ehird> i was just quizzing you
02:34:15 <ehird> to make sure you're still oklodok.
02:34:23 <oklodok> good, you should learn something worth learning, like, you know, knot theory.
02:35:15 <ehird> oklodok: not theory?
02:35:37 <ehird> oklodok: is yes theory theory of boolean yes///
02:36:43 <oklodok> yes; unfortunately it's isomorphic with the empty theory.
02:37:26 -!- oklodok has changed nick to oklopol.
02:38:00 <ehird> is glio(x) a manifold
02:38:17 <oklopol> i don' know much about manifolds.
02:38:38 <oklopol> maybe they have something to do with the sevenfold glio
02:38:40 <ehird> manifold == california-bar you
02:38:48 <ehird> and divide it by x
02:38:54 <ehird> to get the arctangent of the monomorphism.
02:39:03 <ehird> that forms an N-space lie algebra when you integrate it.
02:39:20 <ehird> and the limit of that(x) as x goes to -0.1iPi is the original x
02:40:22 * Sgeo sometimes feels slow when he watches the conversation in here
02:40:27 <oklopol> when a glio knows it's in danger, it flaps its wings.
02:40:53 <ehird> Sgeo: i'm actually bullshitting.
02:41:02 <ehird> but GO LEARN YOURSELF A MATHEMATICS, Sgeo.
02:41:40 <Sgeo> It feels like I knew much more than my peers in 7th grade, but stopped learning since then
02:41:50 <ehird> GO STUDY A CALCULUS IN THE FLOOR//////
02:42:04 <Sgeo> I knew calculus to some extent in 7th grade
02:42:14 <Sgeo> The new stuff we learned in Calculus BC didn't really stick that well
02:42:17 <lament> Sgeo: people become dumber with age
02:42:18 <Sgeo> (new stuff to me)
02:42:27 <ehird> lament: not before early 20s
02:42:30 <ehird> and Sgeo is early 20s.
02:42:34 <oklopol> Sgeo: the calculus you learned is not something to brag about
02:42:36 <lament> and it's possible that you simply developed mentally faster than others, so stopped developing before others have
02:43:05 <oklopol> people don't become dumber with age
02:43:05 <ehird> lament: that's bullshit
02:43:20 <ehird> oklopol: well, no it's not
02:43:33 <coppro> happens physically, why not mentally?
02:43:33 <ehird> but lament's claiming that before you turn twenty, you magically stop learning things and then become a dumbfuck in 3 years
02:43:41 <lament> ehird: what? no i don't
02:43:48 <ehird> lament: i have an invisible pink unicorn right next to me.
02:43:50 <lament> i never said any of those things
02:43:57 <ehird> lament: i was generalizing
02:44:02 <lament> you weren't generalizing
02:44:05 <coppro> ehird: can't be both invisible and pink
02:44:08 <lament> you were just talking out of your ass
02:44:15 <ehird> coppro: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
02:44:58 <Sgeo> It can be pink when visible, but temporarily invsibile. Incidentally, the contraction in the very name is why I switched to the FSM
02:45:05 <Sgeo> *contradiction
02:45:29 <ehird> you look for reasonability in your parody diety?
02:45:33 <ehird> somehow I think you have missed the point entirely.
02:45:47 <lament> ehird: you're really really bad at arguing
02:46:00 <lament> see, you derailed your own argument
02:46:03 <ehird> lament: actually i just don't bother with you :)
02:46:19 <oerjan> <lament> Sgeo: people become dumber with age <-- there was actually something against that theory on the Flynn effect wp page i linked earlier
02:46:21 <oklopol> so what does it mean you "become dumber with age"? i might have a different definition.
02:47:15 <Sgeo> ehird, there is no contradiction in "God". Maybe in the concept of God, but the name "God" itself has no contradiction. Why should a parody deity have a contradiction in its very name?
02:47:30 <oklopol> i do believe most people stop learning after their schooling. also i guess certain forms of wit do get slower.
02:47:31 <lament> oklopol: you perform poorer at tasks requiring ability to learn, concentration, ability to find and recognize patterns, etc
02:47:32 <ehird> Sgeo: the whole point of the parody deities is to make light of the ridiculousness of god
02:47:40 <ehird> so looking for reasonability in one is silly
02:48:11 <Sgeo> But it has a flaw that regular religion doesn't -- a contradiction in the name
02:48:16 <oerjan> lament: basically, it said that some earlier research that showed older people were more stupid was flawed because it was actually because of the Flynn Effect that people _born later_ were smarter :)
02:48:58 <lament> oerjan: just imagine those imbeciles a thousand years ago or so
02:49:00 <ehird> there's no denying that our brain decays, though
02:49:20 * Sgeo doesn't want his brain to decay :(
02:49:33 <oerjan> lament: yeah it recommended not extrapolating too far, it said Aristotle would have had an IQ of -1000 nowadays or so
02:49:37 <lament> Sgeo: don't worry, the rest of your body will decay at a similar rate
02:49:45 <ehird> Sgeo: get your entire set of neurons scanned within a few years time
02:49:47 <ehird> lament: that's not comforting.
02:49:50 <oklopol> lament: in my experience older people are better than young people in learning and concentration; maybe their brains are stupider, but they are more consistent.
02:49:53 <oerjan> (if it extrapolated that far)
02:50:00 <ehird> Sgeo: then, pick a theory of consciousness that works with reviving it and forget about it.
02:50:05 <oklopol> but, i don't actually know, i just refuse to believe something that depressing.
02:50:29 * Sgeo doesn't want to believe that death is the final end either..
02:50:36 <oklopol> i mean they don't get bored as easily, i guess.
02:50:40 <Sgeo> But what I wish has no effect on reality
02:50:45 <lament> oklopol: definitely worse at learning, which is why people go to school and such when they're young
02:50:48 <oklopol> young people never stick to anything
02:51:02 <lament> oklopol: otherwise, if you wanted to become a scientist or something, you would go to college at 60 and produce your best results at 80 or something
02:51:03 <ehird> if you're truly terrified about dying, either (a) work out your mental health problems or (b) work on life extension
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02:53:16 <oklopol> lament: i don't care about your ugly facts
02:53:36 <oerjan> lament: it may not be common, but _some_ mathematicians started late, i've seen riemann mentioned
02:55:10 <oklopol> i'm sure people just stop learning, and lose the skill.
02:56:50 <oerjan> oh wait maybe it was gauss
02:57:00 <ehird> "gauss was a child prodigy"
03:01:48 <oklopol> yeah there was that story about him coming up with a nontrivial way to sum up 1..100
03:02:05 <oklopol> god i lolled at that when i was as old as he was when he came up with it
03:03:19 <ehird> oklopol: wait how do you make summing 1..100 hard
03:03:40 <ehird> even if i was like 6 years old i could do that in a very manual way in like 5 minutes
03:03:43 <oklopol> because most 12-yo or whatever retards do it in ascending order.
03:04:02 <ehird> did you specifically try and target that age at me? :D
03:04:28 <oklopol> no gauss was 10 or 12 or something, that's a story that's supposed to tell about his genius.
03:04:49 <ehird> oklopol: so this is the shitty kind of genius amirite
03:04:57 <oklopol> he came up with summing from both ends at once
03:05:09 <oklopol> well he probably was a child prodigy.
03:05:19 <oklopol> i'm just saying that's an annoying story
03:05:45 <oklopol> also it's the only thing i know about gauss, so i told it.
03:05:56 <oklopol> well i guess i do know stuff about his results
03:06:20 <oklopol> he died in a duel at the age of 20 i think
03:06:40 * oerjan swats oklopol -----###
03:07:04 <oerjan> he got 78 years old :D
03:07:33 <oklopol> and no i think he did not.
03:07:38 * oerjan _assumes_ oklopol confused him with galois
03:08:20 <oklopol> hmm right, i just remember fields, G and a duel..
03:09:10 <ehird> yeah wtf @ galois dying
03:09:59 * oerjan regularly uses a glass and a piece of paper to evict insects with
03:10:30 <ehird> in this household we just use paper
03:11:25 <ehird> WHICH IS LIKE 21 IN REAL PEOPLE YEARS?
03:11:26 <oklopol> then my memory is right, and the whatever page is wrong
03:11:35 <ehird> maybe you're DELUDEY
03:11:40 <oerjan> oklopol: need to consider date you know
03:11:47 <Sgeo> oklopol, I think the story was that he found an easy way to add the numbers 1-100, which was given in class as a busywork assignment
03:12:05 <oklopol> oerjan: i'm familiar with how age works
03:12:14 <ehird> Sgeo: but that's... trivial...
03:12:17 <oklopol> French mathematician who described the conditions for solving polynomial equations; was killed in a duel at the age of 21
03:12:51 <ehird> the sum of 1..n is just 1/2 n (1+n)
03:13:00 <ehird> although okay galois probably didn't know that
03:13:10 <Sgeo> Trivial for you and I.. well, for you at least. I'm not much of a problem-solver. Now that I know how it works, I understand it, but if I never heard of it, I probably wouldn't think of it
03:13:24 <ehird> well tbh i figured out that pattern ages ago but forgot it now
03:13:26 <ehird> and just asked mathematica
03:13:49 <oklopol> Sgeo: anyone who's toyed with math would figure that out in an instant, without knowing the formula.
03:13:52 <ehird> n (1+n)/2 is shorter though.
03:14:13 <ehird> it is kinda obvious if you just think for a second
03:14:49 <Sgeo> I think that this channel just may have a warped definition of "obvious"
03:14:55 <oklopol> Sgeo: and any 12-yo who's toyed with math would figure out the special case of 1..100
03:15:13 <oerjan> @check \n -> n >= 0 ==> sum [1..n] == (n*(n+1))`div`2
03:15:14 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `==>'Precedence parsing error
03:15:18 <ehird> Sgeo: well we're not dumb? :P
03:15:20 <oklopol> Sgeo: i have a very warped definition of everything
03:15:31 <ehird> In[1]:= Sum[i, {i, 1, n}]
03:15:32 <ehird> Out[1]= 1/2 n (1 + n)
03:15:34 <ehird> DO NOT DOUBT THE MATHEMATICA
03:15:59 <ehird> @check \n -> (n < 0) || (sum [1..n] == (n*(n+1)) `div` 2)
03:16:18 <oerjan> IT SPRINGS DIRECTLY FROM THE DIVINE INTELLIGENCE OF WOLFRAM
03:17:16 <ehird> oklopol: it's so obvious that oerjan had to ask \bot :D
03:17:34 <ehird> n (1 + n) can surely be simplified
03:17:56 <ehird> hmm not that i can think of
03:18:00 <oklopol> maybe, why not ask mathematica.
03:18:16 <ehird> it's just ((n*(1+n))/2) is sort of, you know
03:18:45 <oerjan> n^2+n isn't _that_ much of an improvement
03:18:52 <oklopol> nowadays i'm more about pure ideas.
03:19:23 <ehird> oerjan: anyway i'm thinking something that only mentions n once
03:19:51 <ehird> oerjan: we can exploit the 1/2
03:20:57 <oerjan> but that's essentially cheating, n over 2 is just the triangular numbers anyhow
03:21:15 <Sgeo> What happened after lambdabot said "Ok, passed 500 tests."?
03:21:39 <ehird> oerjan: i guess n (1+n) / 2 wins the summation contest for now
03:22:21 <oerjan> x+y = n+1, x-y = n ==> x=n+1/2, y = 1/2
03:22:51 <oerjan> n(n+1)/2 = (n+1/2)^2/2 - 1/8
03:23:30 <oerjan> it _does_ only have one n :)
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03:30:39 <oklopol> maybe i should do something
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12:09:17 <ogliopol> i wish there was some way to see your own nick in mirc
12:09:35 -!- ogliopol has changed nick to oklokok.
12:15:34 <oklokok> i heard a finnish woman mispronounce strange on the radio yesterday
12:16:34 <AnMaster> oklokok, there is no way to see your own nick? How strange
12:16:57 <AnMaster> considering client has to know for stuff like setting umodes
12:17:28 <AnMaster> idea: try (with no parameters): /nick
12:17:36 <oklokok> * /nick: insufficient parameters (line 190, minirc.nns)
12:17:48 <oklokok> seems logical, yes, i've tried it
12:18:26 <AnMaster> in xchat it is right beside the input bar
12:19:28 <oklokok> i think i'm supposed to rely on "14:09… Your nick is now oklokok", which is stupid
12:19:45 <oklokok> because it's just the server's msg
12:20:16 <Deewiant> 14:09:35 --> ogliopol is now known as oklokok
12:20:24 <Deewiant> Just log in twice and the other will always see it
12:21:33 <AnMaster> oklokok, what about the channel member list?
12:22:22 <oklokok> also i can join #random09832943 and say hello this is test messages
12:22:46 <oklokok> Deewiant: i see; still kinda stupid
12:23:26 <oklokok> yes, it's somewhat stupid :)
12:24:45 <AnMaster> -Deewiant- VERSION Deewiantbot version NaN <-- nice
12:25:06 <oklokok> if i knew a better alternative, i'd use it; and yeah, i know irssi is supposed to be that
12:25:28 <oklokok> yes, it was horrible, don't remember why
12:25:36 <oklokok> there was some horrible flaw
12:25:45 <AnMaster> oklokok, maybe it improved since?
12:26:09 <AnMaster> use the silverex version. the other windows version costs money iirc
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12:26:51 <oklopol> i've been offline since like 5 am
12:27:04 <oklopol> and now that i'm back, i died
12:27:29 <AnMaster> oklopol, if you used nickserv you could easily ghost it
12:28:06 <AnMaster> oklopol, not really. register, set up client to autoidentify to account.
12:28:26 <oklopol> please elaborate on the latter part, that is, give me the code
12:29:02 <AnMaster> for erc and xchat you just enter some "on connect line"
12:29:20 <AnMaster> so it sends that line every time directly after connecting
12:29:40 <AnMaster> which would be something like: ns identify oklopol mysecretpassword
12:29:40 <oklopol> mirc has that for quakenet; i don't know how to do it for normal networks
12:29:58 <oklopol> well still, i don't know where to put that
12:29:59 <AnMaster> oklopol, sending that line to the server that is
12:30:10 <AnMaster> iirc you nowdays have to provide an email when registering
12:30:42 <oklopol> i have registered, the O(1) operations usually aren't too much work
12:31:39 <AnMaster> oklopol, not sure if you have to give it / first in front of that "ns identify"
12:32:10 <AnMaster> in the on-connect line thingy you can't give the / to xchat at least. nor to erc iirc
12:33:16 <oklopol> i think those are equal in mirc
12:46:31 <Asztal> I thought /ns -> /msg nickserv was a server-specific thing
12:48:09 * oerjan just gives it as server password in irssi anyhow
12:48:28 <Deewiant> Maybe it needs to be sent in a special way, just plain typing it doesn't work anyway
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12:51:21 <ehird> you discovered my flight technique
12:53:59 <oklopol> is that your way of saying hay i'm hare
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13:00:40 <ehird> 04:22:22 <oklokok> also i can join #random09832943 and say hello this is test messages
13:00:51 <ehird> or //msg oklodo… wait
13:00:57 <ehird> okay i actually thought that would work for a second.
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13:02:38 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> /ns? Not /msg NickServ? <-- server side alias as well as often client side
13:03:24 <AnMaster> technically using /ns or /nickserv is "more secure" on many ircds, since only a real ulined server can receive those messages. Not sure if this is true for hyperion.
13:03:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, irssi doesn't accept unknown commands
13:04:55 <AnMaster> ehird, you can do that after you found your nick, in order to confirm it
13:05:05 <Deewiant> Yeah, I figured, I just couldn't bother to look up the raw-send command
13:05:11 <ehird> um thanks for highlighting me AnMaster
13:05:25 <AnMaster> ehird, does it bother you that I highlighted you?
13:05:34 <ehird> you replied to my line directly
13:05:38 <ehird> i read it as part of the previous lines
13:05:45 <AnMaster> ehird, yes I did reply to what you said
13:05:45 <ehird> because i'm tired and couldn't pick out that that interpretation was stupid
13:07:12 <ehird> guess what time i slept last night!
13:07:23 <AnMaster> ehird, later than I went to bed?
13:07:54 <ehird> i think i managed to get to sleep around 6 am local time.
13:08:00 <ehird> i have a very dysfunctional relation with my body.
13:08:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ATHR is under progress btw. Many parts work
13:08:08 <AnMaster> TEST: Will test C with a single thread.
13:08:08 <AnMaster> GOOD: Using C on a value from the intital source of the program worked.
13:08:08 <AnMaster> GOOD: Value actually exchanged according G.
13:08:08 <AnMaster> GOOD: Failed C returned correct previous value.
13:08:08 <AnMaster> GOOD: Failed C didn't changed value.
13:08:09 <AnMaster> TEST: Will test C with two threads.
13:08:14 <ehird> we act happy in public though.
13:10:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, current tests so far: http://pastebin.ca/1494613
13:16:58 * AnMaster notes he need to implement HRTI to be able to provide reasonable timing for the ATHR test cases
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13:22:56 <AnMaster> "M 'Mark' designates the timer as having been read by the IP with this ID at this instance in time. "
13:23:04 <AnMaster> why does it specifically mention the IP ID?
13:26:57 <Deewiant> It clarifies something for TRDS.
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13:30:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what happens in CCBI if more ips are created and destroyed than 2^32?
13:31:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what if one of those still exist, say, the second. will more than one IP with the same id exist then?
13:31:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Well, in TRDS multiple IPs with the same ID can coexist, so that means the timers are per-ID and not per-IP.
13:31:50 <Deewiant> AnMaster: You'll run out of memory before that.
13:32:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not if you keep killing ips somewhere in the middle
13:32:14 <AnMaster> or do you end up reusing them right away?
13:32:48 <AnMaster> I believe cfunge will possibly collide two ids
13:32:57 <AnMaster> but then I will just say "use the 64 bit version"
13:33:01 <Deewiant> I think CCBI just does a blind increment
13:34:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ATHR thread ids must never collide, it is up to the implementation to ensure this and make S reverse if there is no free one left.
13:35:25 <AnMaster> luckily I won't run into that problem in efunge, what with it being bignum + blind increment
13:35:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, btw, how do you feel about expressing timeouts in planck times? It would mean a 32 bit funge can't handle it.
13:36:42 <ehird> just push multiple values on the stack
13:36:44 <AnMaster> personally I think I'll go for expressing timeouts in picoseconds.
13:36:53 <Deewiant> Or push a pointer to a bignum, or whatever.
13:36:59 <ehird> so do remind me guys
13:37:03 <ehird> how is befunge meant to be esoteric?
13:37:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yeah, x/y/length, could work
13:37:08 <ehird> i'm not quite seeing it beyond a little core.
13:37:08 <Deewiant> Just say it is an opaque object.
13:37:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, except it is supposed to be user specifiable
13:37:29 <Deewiant> Code that looks like line noise is esoteric.
13:37:38 <AnMaster> a reasonable timeout for waiting for signal
13:37:49 <Asztal> has anyone implemented a kleinefunge or a hexfunge? (different topologies)
13:37:51 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Make a converter from Funge-cell to number.
13:38:06 <Deewiant> I guess it'd be best to just rely on a BIGN fingerprint...
13:38:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, personally I would just rather go for "one cell containing"
13:39:01 <Deewiant> If you just read a normal Funge cell, then you limit yourself to the interpreter's word size
13:39:08 <ehird> kleinfunge would just be torusfunge wouldn't it
13:39:11 <ehird> from the perspective of the program
13:39:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, true. but so does HRTI already
13:39:21 <Deewiant> If you also allow reading from a string etc, you might as well make a whole bignum fingerprint
13:39:42 <Deewiant> AnMaster: The problem will be somewhat bigger even with picoseconds let alone Planck times.
13:40:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, will it be a problem with picoseconds already?
13:40:30 <AnMaster> `wolfram 1 second in picoseconds
13:40:37 <HackEgo> 1 second in picoseconds \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ convert 1 second to picoseconds \ Result: \ \ 1 1012 ps picoseconds \ Additional conversions: \ \ 1000 ms milliseconds \ Interpretation: \ \ time \ Corresponding quantities: \ \ Distance x traveled by light in a vacuum from x 186 282 miles 299 792 km kilometers \
13:40:38 <Deewiant> AnMaster: http://www.google.com/search?q=(2^31-1)+picoseconds+to+seconds
13:41:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=(2^63-1)+picoseconds+to+seconds
13:41:20 <Deewiant> 64-bit can go up to 3 months, but 32-bit can't even do 3 milliseconds.
13:41:43 <Deewiant> I think that's a bit harsh on 32-bit people. :-P
13:41:53 <AnMaster> with nanoseconds you can do 2 seconds
13:42:34 <AnMaster> the time processing the value shouldn't take longer than the timeout!
13:42:51 <AnMaster> which it will likely using some pointer to string or similar
13:43:01 <Asztal> split it into two seconds and nanoseconds arguments?
13:43:13 <Deewiant> For picoseconds, popping the value from the stack will likely take more than one.
13:43:17 <AnMaster> seconds and picoseconds you could do
13:43:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, true. on current hardware
13:43:47 <Deewiant> (See http://imgur.com/X1Hi1.gif)
13:43:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, same for nanoseconds I guess. Again on current hardware
13:44:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what about register files?
13:44:26 <Deewiant> If it's in L1 it might take less than one.
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13:53:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, in the future it might be faster. Which was why I considered using picoseconds for the timeout
13:53:51 <AnMaster> ((2^31) - 1) * microseconds = 2 147.48365 seconds <-- ok HRTI has problems over a range of a few minutes
13:54:56 <ehird> you've been deciding this one stupid thing for days
13:55:06 <ehird> are you really so incompetent that it takes you a day to decide a timescale?
13:55:09 <AnMaster> ehird, um, since yesterday evening
13:55:21 <ehird> way to miss the point entirely
13:55:46 <AnMaster> ehird, I want to get it right from the beginning. And planck time is Not Right here :P
13:56:06 * ehird moves AnMaster out of the way of society, to #bikeshedding-asylum
13:56:15 <AnMaster> anyway seconds, nanoseconds and picoseconds sounds good
13:56:19 <Asztal> yes, get it right the first time, that way all the masses of befunge users don't have to put up with a quirky API... in an esolang ;)
13:56:32 <ehird> Asztal: why do you think i suggested planck time?
13:56:36 <AnMaster> Asztal, rather not put up with a CHANGING API
13:56:37 <ehird> THAT'S NOT PRACTICAL! WAAAAAAH
13:56:50 <ehird> AnMaster: OMG THEY MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK AT THE LOGS WHEN SOMEONE TELLS THEM THE API CHANGED
13:56:58 <ehird> FAILING THAT SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE TO ACTUALLY SEND AN EMAIL TO MIKE RILEY
13:57:00 <ehird> TO UPDATE HIS 3 PROGRAMS!
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13:57:12 <AnMaster> ehird, I would go for it, except that 32 bit funges would run into issues
13:57:13 <ehird> Do you KNOW how much email COSTS?
13:57:18 <AnMaster> and those are the most common ones
13:57:25 <ehird> AnMaster: because you don't know how to put multiple elements on the stack
13:57:38 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> anyway seconds, nanoseconds and picoseconds sounds good
13:57:48 <ehird> so planck time #1, planck time #2, planck time #3.
13:57:59 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, but how many should you need?
13:58:14 <ehird> you've made that decision with seconds/nanoseconds/picoseconds too.
13:58:15 <AnMaster> since obviously a user of a bignum funge shouldn't have to bother with splitting it
13:58:26 <ehird> AnMaster: they can just do
13:58:32 <Asztal> push 0, then some numbers
13:59:16 <ehird> `wolfram ((2^(32*3))-1) planck times
13:59:23 <HackEgo> 2^ 32 3 \ \ 1 planck times \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ 232 \ Result: \ \ 3 \ \ 1 Planck time \ \ 7.923 1028 Planck times \ Value: \ \ 176.6 E h \ Comparisons: \ \ atomic units of time \ \ 0.04 \ \ 1 23 \ 100 fs \ \ time for rhodopsin to twist 90 degrees fastest chemical reaction studied directly \ Interpretation:
13:59:57 <AnMaster> that is number of femtoseconds?
14:00:06 <ehird> 2^96 planck times = 4.271 fs
14:00:25 <ehird> wasn't like 100 bits enough for 2 minutes?
14:00:28 <AnMaster> ehird, so you need at least a few more to cover up to say, "a few hours"
14:01:00 <ehird> 2^168 planck times = 336,200 minutes
14:01:04 <AnMaster> 256 "for way more than the age of the universe"
14:01:42 <Asztal> how about an exponential representation? a * 2^b planck times
14:01:42 <ehird> AnMaster: 5 elements
14:01:58 <ehird> Asztal: that's not precise enough!
14:03:48 <MigoMipo> http://www.leftmind.net/random/linuxbloat.jpg
14:05:27 <AnMaster> I mean, is it logarithmic or linear?
14:05:51 <AnMaster> and is that 100 or 1000 or something else for the top
14:06:04 <ehird> you're fucking batshit insane
14:06:05 <Asztal> It would most likely say if it was logarithmic
14:06:17 <ehird> of course it's fucking linear
14:06:28 <ehird> the top is obviously the number of attendants who answered the question
14:06:41 <ehird> your two questions, surely you're trolling
14:06:44 <AnMaster> ehird, I have seen a logarithmic bar chart once iirc
14:06:48 <ehird> YOU'RE ASKING WHETHER A BAR CHART IN A PRESENTATION IS LOGARITHMIC
14:07:04 <ehird> Especially when logarithmic would make no fucking sense at all.
14:07:06 <AnMaster> I think a teacher made it, a rather bad teacher.
14:07:26 <AnMaster> ehird, correct. I'm asking that. In my experience the world doesn't make sense.
14:07:51 <AnMaster> ehird, how many answered the question I wonder
14:08:12 <ehird> it's a goddamn joke
14:08:23 <ehird> it doesn't matter one iota and could also be completely fabricated
14:08:48 <ehird> someone please save me from this deranged man
14:09:37 <AnMaster> I hate cds with blank areas. I prefer when the top is completely covered by a label. Less risk for fingerprints and similar.
14:09:51 <sgeo> Am I more or less deranged than AnMaster
14:10:06 <sgeo> If you answer "Yes" I will hurt you (not really)
14:10:29 <ehird> you just ask stupid questions. AnMaster builds a whole deranged system of WTF around incomprehensibly stupid questions.
14:10:44 <ehird> AnMaster: you care if you can see fingerprints on your CDs...?
14:11:27 <ehird> i'm going to appeal to the swedish govt for funding to lock AnMaster in an asylum. i'm sure they'll understand...
14:11:34 <AnMaster> even if the rest of my room is far from tidy I would like at least this to be tidy.
14:11:43 <AnMaster> to counterbalance the general untidyness in here
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14:22:13 <oklopol> you won't believe the day i had
14:22:19 <ehird> did it involve moguls
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14:24:04 <ehird> but not of volition just violins?
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14:25:03 <ehird> voles are perhaps made of pure energy?
14:25:07 <ehird> that's a good theory
14:25:28 <oklopol> well theories are only as good as they get.
14:25:35 <ehird> i'm a walking theory.
14:25:52 <ehird> that of: i mind my own business while completing my tasklist for the universe.
14:25:58 <ehird> it involves entropy a lot
14:26:20 <ehird> we're stringing words together i do not think this is how you make falafel
14:26:26 <ehird> i play minesweeper
14:26:44 <AnMaster> ehird, so you like minesweeper too?
14:26:52 <ehird> AnMaster: only entropy minesweeper.
14:26:59 <ehird> oklopol: it's inifigant.
14:27:00 <AnMaster> ehird, what are the rules for it?
14:27:17 <ehird> AnMaster: you are, one, and the universe is one, and you are the universe, and the energy is flowing, you can feel it… it's right there…
14:27:49 <ehird> it…is it too late?…touch the energy…
14:27:59 <ehird> it's…my god, it's,…it's expanding…
14:28:09 <ehird> it's all…all just…just energy…everywhere…can't…imagine…amazing…it's
14:28:20 <oklopol> to live the game is not to ask what's outside the rules
14:28:24 <ehird> You Got 99 Points !
14:28:29 <ehird> Insert Coin To Play
14:28:41 <ehird> oklopol: philosophorous
14:29:01 <oklopol> it is very philosophorous, i don't agree with it
14:29:26 <ehird> philosophorous is a material
14:29:26 <ehird> it is through its vector that we experience energy
14:29:26 <AnMaster> ehird, what is your opinion on the music of Elgar? And I know you know who he is, what with being a Brit
14:29:58 <ehird> AnMaster: actually i have n o idea. i'm … directing my energy vehicle to the google site that i know, oh so very well it's … it's pure…energy…oh,wow…
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14:30:05 <ehird> oklopol: bach is made of pure matter
14:30:09 <ehird> there are two types of compusture
14:30:21 <oklopol> did you know bach occasionally used his name in his compositions
14:30:25 <ehird> energy composers are enegetic, matter composers matter
14:30:33 <ehird> oklopol: yes, hofstadter told me.
14:30:51 <oklopol> 1032103210321032 it's really a trivial chromatic chemilabrication
14:30:52 <AnMaster> ehird, are you saying you don't know "Land of Hope and Glory"?
14:31:06 <ehird> AnMaster: well it rings a bel air… i'll ask the scope…
14:31:15 <ehird> oklopol: triple V X ultra +
14:31:24 <ehird> i am a secret amiga
14:31:34 <ehird> seventeen gnomes, a few years,
14:31:46 <AnMaster> I'll as the UK gov to lock you up ehird!
14:31:54 <ehird> you'll ass them real good
14:32:13 <ehird> i'm not eating nowadays. it seems to be the thing for the plebians, i'm not them
14:32:23 <ehird> oklopol: have you slept into it
14:32:45 <ehird> inferno, fire, brimstone, oklopol
14:32:48 <ehird> the four elements of the apocalypse
14:32:49 <oklopol> i slept a lot, i dreamt of this world, created by me; it has ai
14:33:03 <oklopol> and i though wow i want that
14:33:24 <ehird> i'm listening to my fashion, its' talkoing about me
14:33:50 <ehird> maybe we could listen to the buddha
14:34:12 <ehird> I want YOU for the SEALAND ARMY
14:34:38 <ehird> micronation suffering from micronesia
14:34:45 <ehird> they are small and off the coast, the nations don't recognize their posse
14:34:47 <ehird> that rhymed sort of
14:34:51 <ehird> anyway they say they are unique
14:34:55 <ehird> their statushood they tweak
14:34:59 <ehird> for they are not so meek
14:35:14 <ehird> they are tiny and pirate bay wanted to buy them but the giant squid got there first.
14:35:36 <ehird> actually tpb did want to buy them but their money is flotation
14:35:55 <ehird> let's make a dream of lousy.
14:36:13 <AnMaster> <ehird> actually tpb did want to buy them but their money is flotation <-- source?
14:36:17 <ehird> oklopol: tenable theorem/proposition, but what then of sleep?!
14:36:42 <ehird> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/12/pirate_bay_buys_island/
14:36:44 <ehird> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/17/piratebay_sealand_nationhood/
14:36:46 <oklopol> ehird: oh, right, i forgot about sleep
14:37:02 <ehird> sealand is only nation being in eyes of sealand though
14:37:15 <ehird> oklopol: right so if we use sleepons (sleep particles) without unconsciousness we make dream
14:37:24 <ehird> and distribute the dream computation across us all to make it more realistic
14:37:35 <ehird> we could have a physics team, effect team, reality coördination team etc
14:37:37 <ehird> and it would be lousy
14:37:55 <oklopol> you mean we'd make a connection of minds?
14:38:07 <ehird> dreaming using sleepons.
14:38:12 <ehird> http://www.tapirback.com/tapirgal/gifts/friends/insects/louse-stuffed-f1566.jpg ←←← ACTUAL SIZE
14:39:05 <ehird> blogosphere blogagent blogifying blogblogging neoblogging postblogging blogosphere bloggination blogs
14:39:41 <ehird> ambiguity but a million people.
14:39:47 <ehird> international waters fuck that shit
14:40:25 <ehird> territory of the mongrels oklopol?
14:40:31 <oklopol> i can't take myself anymore, need to go read or something.
14:40:38 <ehird> oklopol: take the meta
14:40:57 <ehird> vanity can shit you
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14:41:10 <oklopol> so, should i read algos, dosto or dict
14:41:25 <ehird> oklopol: the booke of irc
14:41:41 <AnMaster> <ehird> international waters fuck that shit <-- why?
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14:41:49 <ehird> AnMaster: man it's like you never flew.
14:42:11 -!- ineiros has joined.
14:42:31 <ehird> let me explain to nitrocycerin
14:42:36 <AnMaster> but the third time was just inside Sweden, in a small Cessna 172
14:42:37 <oklopol> i've flewn more times than you
14:43:02 <ehird> okay, here's my thoughtssssss
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14:43:17 <ehird> ask yourself this question
14:43:25 <ehird> has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
14:43:29 <ehird> and your answer will imbibe.
14:43:49 <AnMaster> ehird, what is wrong with international waters anyway
14:44:00 <AnMaster> I flew inside Europe the time I flew.
14:44:06 <ehird> AnMaster: has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
14:44:09 <ehird> it's the question you need
14:44:12 <ehird> you have to self-comprehend it
14:44:39 <ehird> dude you're a fucking ////////////// vagabond
14:44:51 <ehird> you've got to be directing
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14:46:55 <ehird> THIS IS FUCKING IMPORTANT
14:46:59 <ehird> HAVE YOU EVER KNOWN A PLATAPY
14:48:15 <ehird> smurf smurf smurf musrf musrfm usrfm usmrf us msurfm surfm usmur msrf musrufm srmfu sm ruf smrfu smrfu srmf us msrfu smrfu smrfu smfurfm us mruf msrfumsfu m srufm surfm usrmfu smeruf msrfu ms surfm smurfm suf
14:49:48 <GregorR> ehird has been drinking again.
14:50:02 <ehird> GregorR: you have to comprehend the glio-field imbursed by oklopol
14:50:09 <ehird> it interacts with tectonic ehirdiments
14:50:24 <ehird> is like a person named cond
14:50:32 <ehird> so condiments are capitalist
14:51:45 <oklopol> ooooooooooooo the fact that you think
14:51:56 <oklopol> i don't think that's a fact
14:52:14 <ehird> would i to think, perchance to cognit
14:52:35 <ehird> fall on to a cliff anyway
14:52:39 <ehird> you migt understandh
14:52:47 <ehird> oklopol: well if i think i might cognit which is congition
14:52:59 <ehird> and diamond is crystalline structure of neuron
14:53:26 <oklopol> well you only wish it was your cognition
14:53:35 <oklopol> and you wish it without actually having it
14:53:43 <ehird> i'm psychic oklopol, can predict the future, but to understand it i need muture
14:53:58 <ehird> I NEE DTHE um what was muture again
14:54:05 <ehird> oh hm that probability thingy?????????? heuristic
14:54:10 <ehird> http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/muture.txt is unhelpful lol
14:54:14 <ehird> anyway i'm a diamond of the structure
14:54:18 <ehird> and the reflection may be optical cognit
14:55:04 <ehird> great depression reverse to the dispersion of the universe corners
14:55:39 <oklopol> muture is a great language
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14:56:03 <ehird> it's FUCKEN great and FUCKEN how is iFUCKENt that it be so the paradigmal? FUCKEN
14:56:11 <ehird> i don't underFUCKENstand the pFUCKENaradigm
14:56:18 <oklopol> ehird how is that unhelpful, it shows the basic idea of the lang
14:56:21 <ehird> oh no i have chronic FUCKEN FUCKEN illness
14:56:29 <ehird> it puts FUCKEN in FUCKEN the most inappropriate FUCKEN places
14:56:37 <oklopol> at least ais523 understood it right away
14:56:38 <ehird> oklopol: but am crystalline and not the cognit too well advancedly...
14:56:45 <ehird> match a b = if a == b then 0 else -1
14:56:50 <ehird> suggests a probability structure of understandy
14:57:00 <ehird> so i think we are probability weight to find answer in ourselves
14:57:42 <ehird> just————————goddamnswitch onxit
14:58:40 <ehird> oklopol: now the what
14:59:20 <ehird> i am the oone that ones the ones of the ones which must one all the ones for the one
14:59:34 <ehird> oklopol: run a bit
14:59:50 <ehird> oklopol: in finderland, oklopol finderland oklopol
15:01:03 <oklopol> does anyone here know how italian is pronounced
15:01:26 <ehird> oklopol: it alley an
15:01:33 <ehird> except the a in alley is too subtle
15:02:25 <oklopol> that's not exactly what i meant
15:02:41 <ehird> oklopol: oh, i actually didn't realise.
15:03:26 <oklopol> i'm fairly booksmart at english pronunciation
15:03:53 <oklopol> my cousin taught me most of french yesterday, but he doesn't know italian
15:14:14 * ehird finds a screenshot he made from november 2006. cool. :P
15:14:42 <ehird> when i used crappy fluxbox :d
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15:21:58 <AnMaster> <GregorR> ehird has been drinking again. <-- I trust this explanation more than what ehird suggested instead.
15:22:19 <AnMaster> ehird, you used linux back then?
15:22:39 <ehird> i used linux until 2006-12 and then sporadically in 2007 and maybe once or twice in 2008
15:22:47 <ehird> (2006-12 is when i bought my imac)
15:22:54 <AnMaster> ehird, so you had a non-mac then?
15:23:05 <ehird> umm, yes, my old, crappy pc that hates itself
15:23:15 <ehird> and sounds like an aeroplane
15:24:14 <ehird> sec, lemme edit+upload it so we can all revel in the ugly.
15:24:36 <AnMaster> ehird, you liked it back then?
15:24:52 <ehird> i didn't really care all that much, but sure, it worked
15:25:20 <ehird> it sucked though to be without a sense of aesthetics. whoever said form and function are unrelated?
15:26:11 <oklopol> where's augur when you need one
15:27:34 <ehird> http://imgur.com/FbLgy.png ← Here we see fluxbox, an rxvt fork that had tabs (not urxvt), firefox and amarok
15:27:45 <ehird> admittedly, only the rxvt fork's window is a ctually visible, but...
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15:28:02 <ehird> i like how you can't see any window border. that's fucking stupid.
15:28:21 <ehird> "hurr, i'm the terminal and i'm enveloping your WHOLE SCREEN".
15:29:13 <ehird> as for distro... well, nov 2006 with firefox icon being juts the globe
15:29:15 <ehird> i think ubuntu did that
15:29:25 <ehird> didn't firefox go straight from artwork to iceweasel?
15:29:35 <ehird> AnMaster: the blue globe
15:29:41 <ehird> (it's what you get when you build FF without mozilla branding)
15:29:58 <ehird> ubuntu just built it without the logo for a bit while mozilla was bugging them
15:30:17 <ehird> AnMaster: i like how i had two terminals open
15:30:20 <ehird> real good use of tabbing that
15:30:20 <AnMaster> ehird, why didn't ubuntu just use the official build? *shrug*
15:30:28 <ehird> also, you can see my window manager has tabs
15:30:33 <ehird> "Terminal Terminal Terminal"
15:30:35 <AnMaster> ehird, it might have been that you wanted to hide some other tab?
15:31:09 <ehird> AnMaster: well, for one, debian build all their stuff
15:31:41 <ehird> AnMaster: well, either debian have to use mozilla's binaries direct
15:31:48 <ehird> or they can't use "Firefox" or the logo
15:31:48 <AnMaster> if you can't build it it is obviously non-free.
15:31:58 <ehird> the artwork and name are non-free
15:32:09 <ehird> but what you get from mozilla.org is 100% NOT
15:32:21 <ehird> meh, mozilla have always been as bad as sun
15:32:51 <ehird> mpl takes 1 gpl to do what mit does in a tiny fraction
15:32:57 <ehird> with some other pointless restrictions
15:33:04 <sgeo> Good idea or bad idea: Making a playlist of some music from a game in HTML 5?
15:33:29 <ehird> what's that got to do with html5
15:33:38 <ehird> omg some javascript links that change an <audio> element!
15:33:41 <sgeo> Easy to make a playlist?
15:34:01 <ehird> why on earth would i want to download them and put them in my music library when I can LISTEN IN MY BROWSER WITH A STUPID INTERFACE
15:34:20 <AnMaster> from (a game [written in] in HTML 5)
15:34:32 * sgeo will also provide some text detailing where in the game the music was found
15:34:37 <ehird> that would make marginally more sense, AnMaster
15:34:46 <ehird> it'd just be a soundtrack to some sort of web-technology-experimental game
15:34:50 <AnMaster> ehird, except I added an extra in there by mistake
15:34:50 <ehird> not as weird as this
15:35:03 <ehird> sgeo: you could do that in the title field. or the comment field.
15:35:06 <ehird> of an mp3 or ogg or whatever.
15:35:45 <sgeo> I really don't think anyone wants to download the music for theirselves.. although if they did, they could, obviously
15:35:56 <ehird> "I really don't think anyone wants to download the music for theirselves"
15:35:58 <ehird> are you fucking serious?
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15:36:15 <ehird> you think people would rather click around on a crappy webpage relying on you to OMG tell their browser to play some files
15:36:24 <ehird> than click and get the files themselves, giving the exact same functionality
15:36:28 <ehird> except in a media player they might be used to
15:36:29 <AnMaster> ehird, we need more javascript games. No flash or java or silly stuff
15:36:31 <ehird> and without relying on you
15:36:54 <ehird> AnMaster: yeah html5+canvas+javascript games will be fun
15:36:59 <ehird> flash will still have the performance edge though
15:37:02 <ehird> even with things like canvas3d
15:37:25 <sgeo> ehird, you want me to make a .m3u playlist, basically?
15:37:38 <AnMaster> ehird, didn't chrome have a blazing fast javascript JIT?
15:37:47 <ehird> sgeo: i'm saying that "should I make <unbelievably stupid thing>?" is no
15:37:48 <ehird> AnMaster: sort of.
15:38:04 <ehird> AnMaster: it was the fastest, then SquirrelFish Extreme (— ahem — Nitro) was released to fuck them in the ass.
15:38:07 <ehird> and now it's about equal
15:38:10 <ehird> apart from mozilla browsers
15:38:12 <ehird> which are way behind
15:38:31 <ehird> http://code.google.com/p/v8/
15:38:33 <ehird> is chrome's engine
15:38:42 <ehird> http://webkit.org/ for SFX :P
15:39:20 <ehird> nitro = marketing name for squirrel fish extreme
15:39:24 <ehird> 15:38 ehird: http://webkit.org/ for SFX :P
15:39:37 <ehird> http://builds.nightly.webkit.org/files/trunk/src/WebKit-r45855.tar.bz2
15:39:57 <ehird> ooh, i have an idea for multicore computers
15:40:10 <ehird> run both v8 and sfx at once on every JS program you find
15:40:14 <ehird> and when one completes, kill the other
15:40:25 <ehird> JS programs are single-threaded so as long as you don't have too many tabs it'll be just as fast
15:40:37 <AnMaster> ehird, and record which was fastest?
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15:40:44 <ehird> this is for a browser
15:40:52 <ehird> they both race to complete
15:40:56 <ehird> and the one that does fastest ins
15:41:19 <ehird> so if you don't have multiple tabs doing js at once (so that you have less than 2*tabs cores) and JS stays single-threaded... :-D
15:41:47 <ehird> i think it's being worked on.
15:41:53 <ehird> #include "wtf/FastMalloc.cpp"
15:41:57 <ehird> WebKit: you can rely on it.
15:42:04 <ehird> I wonder if wtf really stands for, well, wtf.
15:42:29 <AnMaster> ehird, "webkit transitional filesystem"?
15:42:41 <AnMaster> doesn't work with "fast malloc"
15:42:55 <AnMaster> ehird, also, including a cpp is pretty wtf
15:43:01 <ehird> AnMaster: it's AllInOneFile.cpp
15:43:20 <AnMaster> ehird, oh, to optimise better or something...? RIIGHT
15:44:02 <ehird> ...but since it's apple it's obviously bad.
15:44:06 <AnMaster> ehird, but why not use -combine for gcc or -ipo for icc?
15:44:16 <AnMaster> I thought sqlite was silly for that too
15:44:29 <AnMaster> except it also does it for ease of redistribution. Easy to include in your source
15:44:37 <AnMaster> like if you want to include it when embedding
15:44:39 <ehird> why not ask them? they're in #webkit/
15:45:14 <AnMaster> garlic on salt bed in oven for 45 minutes (at 175 C)
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15:45:49 <ehird> Garlic and salt: meal of an masters.
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15:57:45 <ehird> "It's just one of those things, you know. All they did was drugs in the 70s and there's no explanation for anything."
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16:01:34 <ehird> GregorR-L: have you ever been a monster?
16:03:26 <ehird> GregorR-L: ...what?
16:03:48 <GregorR-L> What's wonderful is that that's actually an accurate and useful definition of the battery life, I'm just quoting it horrendously out of context :P
16:04:05 <ehird> GregorR-L: oh, it's like, you can have it on and walk 2 acres? :P
16:05:08 <ehird> GregorR-L: I assumed laptop for some reason
16:05:16 <ehird> GregorR-L: also, that sounds fucking awesome.
16:05:24 <ehird> is it better or worse at finding paths than a roomba? :D
16:05:47 <GregorR-L> I'm guessing "worse", since it's on the same Chinese import site where I bought my cell phone watch :P
16:06:42 <ehird> GregorR-L: my mobile is a watch too, it's just not a wrist watch.
16:06:46 <ehird> perhaps you meant wristwatch :P
16:06:57 <GregorR-L> I'm fighting the battle against pocketwatches.
16:07:08 <GregorR-L> We thought we'd won ... we'd won so much that "watch" implied "wristwatch"
16:07:16 <GregorR-L> Then ... the mobile phones came ...
16:07:18 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/MontreGousset001.jpg
16:07:23 <ehird> it's SO FUCKING CLASSY.
16:07:35 <GregorR-L> That's not a modern pocketwatch :P
16:07:37 <ehird> and do you know why?
16:07:43 <ehird> IT LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING MONOCOLE!
16:07:52 <ehird> If everything looked like a monocole, we'd be so goddamn classy.
16:07:55 <GregorR-L> http://www.germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50225954/Cell_Phone.jpg <-- this is a modern pocketwatch
16:08:25 <ehird> I have shit one: http://www.mapds.com.au/newsletters/0807/iphone_home.gif
16:08:28 <ehird> I wanted to type this
16:08:35 <ehird> FREUD IS HAVING A FIELD DAY
16:08:46 <ehird> Deewiant: polycole? :D
16:08:48 <GregorR-L> I wrote that before you wrote that, but hit enter too late :P
16:08:49 <Deewiant> Kind of like how you wanted to type monocle but typed monocole
16:09:11 <ehird> Freudian slip: when you wanted to type monocole, but type me and your uncle.
16:09:25 <ehird> (That was smoooooooth)
16:09:30 <ehird> (That's what she said)
16:30:19 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:45:49 -!- nooga has joined.
16:50:42 <Deewiant> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ6Q224UPkc
16:54:49 <AnMaster> do I dare watch it? SFW conditions
16:56:06 <ehird> AnMaster: it's jesus porn
16:57:43 <AnMaster> why is it using two tabs for all animations?
16:58:24 <Deewiant> You don't want flickering, do you?
16:58:45 <AnMaster> the "threede_part" didn't use that
16:59:11 <Deewiant> Since it just fills in the background
16:59:16 -!- Gracenotes has quit ("Leaving").
17:00:20 <Deewiant> Yeah they didn't use it for those 3D spinners
17:01:07 <Deewiant> Maybe it's because the quality is so good that you wouldn't notice any artifacts in any case :-P
17:02:07 <Deewiant> And no, that's the whole point of a demo
17:02:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the sets of cells to activate
17:02:38 <Deewiant> Err, the sets of cells to activate are what makes the whole demo, no?
17:03:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ... they could either pre-calculate the sets of cells to activate each tick and provide an array of them. Or it could calculate it on the fly, to rotate the 3D model "in place". if you see what I mean
17:03:49 <Deewiant> Oh right, you meant for those in particullar
17:04:32 <Deewiant> Well, it's impossible to know from here whether it was calculated before the animation or not
17:05:43 <Deewiant> http://bp.untergrund.net/download.php?dir=2009/console_real_wild/&file=excelence_bb_bp09_wild.zip, let's see
17:05:50 <AnMaster> if calculated in advance, well quite a bit of work put into it... but calculating it on the fly is much more impressive
17:05:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I don't have excel so I can't check.
17:06:04 <Deewiant> Well I doubt they calculated it by /hand/ in any case
17:06:18 -!- nice has joined.
17:06:26 <ehird> nice: you're nice.
17:06:26 <Deewiant> What I'm thinking is that either it's calculated then and there or before/during a previous animation
17:06:59 -!- nice_ has joined.
17:07:04 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I'm even booted into Windows at the moment, so I can check it.
17:07:16 -!- nice_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:07:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I guess you will have to allow macros this time ;P
17:07:32 <Deewiant> No, I just have to look at the source
17:08:03 <Deewiant> 'Course, that would be easier if I knew how this thing worked
17:09:09 <Deewiant> ' project the 3d object to a 2d screen
17:09:09 <Deewiant> sx1 = ((rp1.x * viewpoint) / (rp1.Z + zdepth)) + offsetx
17:09:09 <Deewiant> sy1 = ((rp1.y * viewpoint) / (rp1.Z + zdepth)) + offsety
17:09:09 <Deewiant> sx2 = ((rp2.x * viewpoint) / (rp2.Z + zdepth)) + offsetx
17:09:09 <Deewiant> sy2 = ((rp2.y * viewpoint) / (rp2.Z + zdepth)) + offsety
17:10:37 <Deewiant> There's a sheet called 'threedeedata' where they define 20 line segments which make up the object
17:10:59 <pikhq> I do believe that that is a case for macros if ever I saw one.
17:11:26 <ehird> pikhq: a macro just for that?
17:11:26 <Deewiant> p1.x = Sheets(dataSheet).Cells(line, 1)
17:11:26 <Deewiant> p1.y = Sheets(dataSheet).Cells(line, 2)
17:11:26 <Deewiant> p1.Z = Sheets(dataSheet).Cells(line, 3)
17:11:26 <Deewiant> p2.x = Sheets(dataSheet).Cells(line, 4)
17:11:29 <Deewiant> p2.y = Sheets(dataSheet).Cells(line, 5)
17:11:31 <Deewiant> p2.Z = Sheets(dataSheet).Cells(line, 6)
17:12:07 <pikhq> ehird: I'm assuming that's done more often.
17:12:28 <ehird> thought you meant macros in excel docs
17:12:32 <ehird> pikhq: protip: they could just be arrays and use a function
17:12:35 <ehird> AnMaster: what's argh
17:12:38 <pikhq> Deewiant: WHY IS Z UPPERCASE?
17:12:42 <ehird> sometimes the simplest thing is best
17:12:49 <ehird> z being uppercase is weird though
17:12:51 <pikhq> ehird: Ah, yes. That is quite possible.
17:12:55 <ehird> AnMaster: what was
17:16:51 <ehird> Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
17:17:36 <Deewiant> ̵̡̢̛̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠͇̊̋̌̍̎̏̿̿̿̚ ҉ ҉҉̡̢̡̢̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑ ͡҉҉
17:18:06 <Slereah> (Also it doesn't work on irc)
17:18:18 <ehird> Bees, bees, bebebebebees bees bees be bees.
17:18:24 <Deewiant> I guess it does depending on your font and terminal
17:18:32 <ehird> Be be be be be be be be, be be, (bu) bees, bees, bees, bees, bees bees bees biis!
17:18:36 <Slereah> Not sure any irc program has it
17:18:43 <ehird> Bees bees, be be bees, bees bees bees bees bees
17:18:57 <GregorR-L> I don't know what I'm supposed to be seeing.
17:19:13 <GregorR-L> It expands and contracts when I select it :P
17:19:16 <Deewiant> Ideally it should "bleed" into the neighbouring rows
17:19:30 <GregorR-L> Deewiant: No, just left and right.
17:19:31 <pikhq> Deewiant: That actually shows as nothing at all.
17:20:03 <Deewiant> http://www.google.com/search?q=zalgo - browsers handle it better
17:20:24 <Deewiant> (In before anybody goes all Lynx on me)
17:21:04 <ehird> Don't think, feel. Then you'll be tanasinn.
17:21:54 <Slereah> I always felt Zalgo was kinda the tanasinn of murrican boards
17:22:12 <pikhq> Deewiant: What the crap is that?
17:22:16 <ehird> Tanasinn is much more zen than boring old Zalgo, though.
17:22:48 -!- nice has quit (Connection timed out).
17:22:51 <Slereah> It's hard to represent nicely as non-SJIS, though
17:22:55 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> ̵̡̢̛̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠͇̊̋̌̍̎̏̿̿̿̚ ҉ ҉҉̡̢̡̢̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑ ͡҉҉ <-- poor unicode. What is it supposed to look like? My system fails at that many combining chars
17:23:14 <Slereah> I think the best one I've seen is :
17:23:15 <Slereah> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers8/2566280.jpg
17:23:50 <ehird> ∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
17:23:53 <ehird> ∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴∵∴
17:24:23 <Slereah> Dude, this is ju$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B s$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(Be$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B
17:24:55 -!- Slereah has set topic: ???????????????????????????????????????? | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the Konami Code AT ALL TIMES | $BcfBd+qcfFd+scf@d+rcf@d+r(BBA[start].
17:24:59 <AnMaster> tell me when you returned to unusual insanity instead of this insanity
17:25:23 -!- AnMaster has set topic: ???????????????????????????????????????? | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | The topic must contain the words esoteric programming languages AT ALL TIMES | $BcfBd+qcfFd+scf@d+rcf@d+r(BBA[start].
17:25:32 <ehird> AnMaster: Don't thi∵k, ∴∵e∴.
17:26:40 <Slereah> AnMaster : I hope this will clear it up : http://tanasinn.info/wiki/Tanasinn
17:27:03 <MizardX> The new topic shows as "$" followed by "BcfBd+qcfFd+scf@d+rcf@d+r(BBA[start]"
17:27:48 <Slereah> Really, with tanasinn, you pretty much have to figure it out yourself
17:28:00 <ehird> Slereah: DON'T HELP HIM!
17:28:03 <Slereah> No one will explain it to you seriously
17:28:19 <Slereah> It'll just b$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B$Bch(B
17:29:36 <ehird> ////////////////////ATROPHY OF FORM
17:32:57 <AnMaster> Slereah, I just see lots of boxes on that page
17:34:29 <AnMaster> s a[]I[][][][]ne[][][][]m[]that[]
17:34:47 <ehird> internet problems?
17:35:02 <ehird> then something's up
17:35:20 <AnMaster> ∵ ∴ seems to render as three dots in my irc client
17:35:31 <ehird> encoding issues, I guess
17:36:02 <AnMaster> ehird, "tanasinn is a∵I∵∴∵∴ne∵∴∵∴m∴that∵∴∵∴d∵∴" in firefox
17:36:12 <ehird> The last section is headered "External links" for me here.
17:36:16 <ehird> What's it for you?
17:36:39 <ehird> Slereah: any ideas?
17:36:59 <AnMaster> ehird, your practical joke that you can read it
17:37:18 <ehird> (a) it's not a joke, (b) if it was a joke there's nothing "practical" about it, lern2english
17:37:28 <ehird> i'm betting on your isp, your dns sucks too after all
17:37:48 <AnMaster> ehird, also I fail to see how that would work. Let me start tor and check
17:38:32 <AnMaster> certainly using tor, it is slow as fuck
17:38:38 <ehird> i think it's probably direct from your isp
17:38:42 <ehird> as opposed to where you get it from
17:38:50 <ehird> i've never had a problem with that page linking it to people
17:38:55 <ehird> report it to your isp?
17:39:08 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm not falling for this
17:39:17 <ehird> sorry for fucking trying to help
17:42:17 <ehird> i'm busy with something atm, gimme a bit
17:42:20 <ehird> not exactly high-priority :P
17:42:43 <ehird> you need to get that paranoia of yours checked out
17:43:43 <AnMaster> ehird, the odd symbols are in http://tanasinn.info/index.php?title=Tanasinn&action=edit
17:43:56 <ehird> i think it's your isp.
17:44:07 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, he is joking right?
17:44:23 <GregorR-L> Is he suggesting that your ISP is changing unicode characters just to be sneaky?
17:45:08 <GregorR-L> Yeah, I'm not even stepping into this one.
17:46:44 <AnMaster> anyway I won't believe it any more since he has obviously had time to fake it
17:47:01 <ehird> http://imgur.com/ykfiH.png
17:47:05 <ehird> i don't give a damn if you believe me or not
17:47:09 <ehird> but you're being really paranoid.
17:47:24 <AnMaster> ehird, that is jut that section
17:47:35 <ehird> Funny, that; I don't have a ginormous screen.
17:47:48 <AnMaster> ehird, show me the upper section instead? :/
17:48:04 <ehird> I've given you a screenhot; I don't really care if your paranoid whims dictate that it's faked or whatever.
17:48:24 -!- M0ny has quit.
17:48:28 <ehird> You should get help.
17:49:00 <AnMaster> ehird, look at the show source page, hm I guess my firefox version has problems with whatever CSS it uses to hide things
17:49:05 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
17:49:20 <ehird> source looks fine here
17:49:36 <AnMaster> ehird, tor proves it wasn't that
17:49:39 -!- oklopol has joined.
17:49:52 <ehird> no, it proves that your isp is doing shit to the page before sending it to you
17:49:58 <ehird> deep packet inspection gone wrong i guess?
17:50:13 <ehird> maybe someone set up tanasinn.info to randomly give out mangled/not pages based on IP
17:50:16 <ehird> that'd be very tanasinn.
17:50:17 <AnMaster> ehird, tor encrypts the data payload though
17:50:26 <ehird> then probably the latter
17:50:51 <AnMaster> ehird, the main page isn't mangled
17:51:06 <ehird> "Your first-stop resource about more than 325∴∵555-2368 diff∵∴ren∵∴to∵ics∵[C∴∵∴ion N∴∵∴∵∴∵∴]"
17:51:17 <ehird> guess it's random based on page/ip/phase of moon etc
17:51:27 <AnMaster> ehird, apart from that single line
17:57:48 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:00:27 <AnMaster> ais523, saw that ATHR is partly working now?
18:00:33 <AnMaster> ais523, http://pastebin.ca/1494613
18:00:41 <ehird> with his telepathic powers.
18:00:54 <AnMaster> ehird, I wasn't sure if he was here when I mentioned it or not
18:01:17 <ehird> Telepathic powers.
18:01:39 <AnMaster> ehird, didn't you say you slept badly or something?
18:03:03 <GregorR-L> Am I the only person more aroused by the phrase "fuck off" than inclined to leave? :P
18:03:16 <ehird> When a 13 year old says it? Yes.
18:03:40 <oklopol> well when a boy as cute as ehird says it...
18:03:46 <AnMaster> I'm neither of the two mentioned
18:03:51 <ehird> oklopol: MORE EVIDENCE YOU'RE GA— wait i thought you were oerjan. fuck.
18:03:57 <AnMaster> I just want to bug whoever said it even more
18:04:09 * GregorR-L gives oklopol a big bearhug. Yeah, that kind. lawlawl
18:04:58 <ehird> GregorR-L: you mean an icebreaker game in which an odd number of people are divided into pairs, leaving one member without a partner?
18:05:01 <oklopol> well i hear you look like a chick.
18:05:03 <ehird> or perhaps an unsolicited takeover bid which is so generous that the shareholders of the target company are very unlikely to refuse
18:05:14 <ehird> oklopol: rumors of my chickiness are greatly exaggerated
18:05:34 <GregorR-L> You people and your not immediately interpreting the word "bear" in the gay sense.
18:05:35 <oklopol> that's an awesome icebreaker game :D
18:06:03 <oklopol> maybe it's an actual long game and the one lonely guy just watches
18:06:23 <oklopol> i think it's more that it was so obvious there was no need to mention it
18:06:29 <pikhq> GregorR-L: That sense of the word 'bear' comes up far too often at college. :P
18:06:42 <ehird> oklopol: "The player without a partner calls 2-5 names, depending upon the size of the group, of players sitting in the front. Those player then try to make their way to the player without a partner, while their partners attempt to hold them back. The match ends when a player reaches the player who called the names. Players who were called and failed to reach the caller switch places with their partner so they are now in the back. The game often involves
18:06:45 <ehird> injuries due to the violent struggles between partners."
18:06:50 * pikhq shakes fist at Misha.
18:06:54 <GregorR-L> pikhq: What college do YOU go to? X-P
18:07:40 <pikhq> GregorR-L: It's just because a couple of my friends there are gay. And into bears. So, it manages to come up somehow.
18:07:52 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, err, is a bear gay?
18:07:56 <ehird> do bears have big penises or something
18:08:03 <ehird> AnMaster: A++++ would laugh again
18:08:10 <GregorR-L> A bear is a larger, usu. more muscular, perhaps more hairy gay guy.
18:08:20 <ehird> i'd google for bear penis but um no
18:08:51 <AnMaster> don't think it is a valid nick?
18:09:16 <GregorR-L> There's some pseudosecretive group here called "bear club" that I only know of the existence of because there's an email to the PL mailing list every now and then saying "bear club tonight at 7" or something.
18:09:26 <AnMaster> well nick AnMaster+ didn't work
18:09:28 <GregorR-L> I am utterly incapable of interpreting that in any way except a gay bear orgy.
18:09:45 <GregorR-L> Several of the members are married :P
18:10:05 <ehird> GregorR-L: The only solution to this dilemma is to get in to the bear club.
18:10:14 <ehird> AnMaster: Pasta Lovers.
18:10:18 <ehird> It's an old university joke.
18:11:53 <GregorR-L> oklopol: No, I THINK what it actually is is a group of guys who go drinking.
18:12:02 <GregorR-L> So I'd actually prefer the other form of bear club :P
18:12:21 <oklopol> there's a same-sex group thingie here too
18:12:30 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, I meant as in "don't drink"
18:12:33 <oklopol> i don't think it's about orgies tho
18:12:37 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: I know, but it was hilarious timing :P
18:12:38 <AnMaster> that was what the \o/ was about
18:12:45 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> oklopol: No, I THINK what it actually is is a group of guys who go drinking.
18:12:45 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> And I don't drink.
18:12:50 <AnMaster> <GregorR-L> So I'd actually prefer the other form of bear club :P
18:14:01 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, you really have good taste, you know
18:14:20 <ehird> AnMaster: why the fuck are you so obsessed with people who don't drink or do drugs/
18:14:25 <GregorR-L> Actually, I don't drink precisely because I have bad taste; or more accurately, bad smell :P
18:14:30 <ehird> you practically have sex with them over IRC whenever anyone mentions it
18:14:37 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, 1) doesn't drink alcohol 2) likes classical music
18:14:46 <ehird> <AnMaster> 3) is my hopeful future gay lover
18:14:55 <AnMaster> ehird, sorry, but I'm *definitely* not gay
18:15:25 <pikhq> The correct term is 'transsexual'.
18:15:48 <ehird> pikhq: what's transsexual got to do with it
18:15:52 <GregorR-L> If I'm ever a restauranteur (extremely unlikely scenario), I'd make a BLT sandwich with Guacamole.
18:16:04 <GregorR-L> The GBLT sandwich may not sell well, but it'd be awesome.
18:16:12 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Delicious.
18:16:18 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, how do you feel about garlic?
18:16:29 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: Guac would work better on a BLT, but garlic is pretty sweet.
18:16:40 <GregorR-L> It can be garlicy guacamole, but there can't be two G's in the GBLT :P
18:16:41 <AnMaster> GregorR, ok. Definitely good taste ;P
18:16:58 <pikhq> AnMaster: Hyposmia makes *subtle* tastes hard for him.
18:17:05 <pikhq> Garlic is anything but subtle.
18:17:26 <pikhq> ehird: The bits that are enjoyable are.
18:17:27 <GregorR-L> Actually, it seems to make /liquid/ tastes hard for me, mostly :P
18:17:39 <AnMaster> ehird, you tried wine? I thought there was some age limit on that
18:18:01 <AnMaster> pikhq, um, ehird is in Europe...
18:18:19 <ehird> FUN FACT: Nobody under the age of 18 has ever had even one drop of alcoholic drink. FUN FACT: The only way to know if something tastes subtle or not is to gulp it down yourself.
18:18:23 <pikhq> I'm saying that the age limits are less crazy in Europe.
18:18:23 <AnMaster> and at least Sweden has an age limit for alcohol
18:18:37 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm not saying that most people follow it
18:18:42 <AnMaster> just that it is in there in law
18:19:03 <AnMaster> or maybe that is for buying alcohol
18:19:12 <GregorR-L> 21 in US, but that soooo doesn't stop anyone at all.
18:19:55 <pikhq> GregorR-L: In some states, 21 except if your parents give it to you.
18:20:11 <GregorR-L> pikhq: Those some states would be "nearly all states", as far as I understand.
18:20:18 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, in Sweden normal stores aren't allowed to sell alcohol. Only http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget is
18:20:32 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: That's true in some states, but not most.
18:20:38 <pikhq> Oh? I thought that many states had made that illegal for some random craziness.
18:21:05 <GregorR-L> pikhq: I've never looked it up, so I really only know for Oregon and Indiana, but I was under the impression that it's pretty normal :P
18:21:13 <GregorR-L> pikhq: What with not wanting to make Catholics mad.
18:21:26 <GregorR-L> pikhq: But then, they're not drinking alcohol anyway, they're drinking HUMAN FUCKING BLOOD.
18:21:42 <AnMaster> and from what I heard, Systembolaget always want legitimation to check that you are at least 21
18:21:46 <AnMaster> not that I ever been there myself
18:21:50 <pikhq> Ah, the Catholic craziness concerning transubstantiaton.
18:21:50 <ehird> jesus flesh tastes oddly like bread.
18:22:05 <pikhq> (how the crap that can be considered anything but symbolic is beyond me)
18:22:07 <ehird> pikhq: It's crazy even if you don't believe it's literally his flesh and blood, y'know.
18:24:16 <GregorR-L> That's the only interpretation of that smiley I can figure out.
18:24:28 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, I can't see that interpretation
18:24:47 <AnMaster> and there is a REALLY SAD mouth below
18:25:05 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, that == "I have diarrhea"?
18:25:12 <AnMaster> I can think of other reasons to be that sad
18:25:24 <ehird> You look like D-X when you're just sad?
18:25:42 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm not often sad. but more like :( then
18:25:55 <pikhq> AnMaster: Somebody just shot his mom, dad, siblings, and dog. And sent him a bill for the bullets.
18:26:20 <fizzie> Hmph, VLC 1.0.0 "Support for Mac OS X 10.4.x was dropped due to its technical limitations". No love for Tiger any more.
18:26:25 <ehird> 18:25 pikhq: AnMaster: Somebody just shot his mom, dad, siblings, and dog. And sent him a bill for the bullets.
18:26:32 <ehird> I thought that was a news flash.
18:27:51 <AnMaster> fizzie, everything tends to work on 1 year old linux kernel still, with the possible exception of the latest udev (and who needs the latest udev?)
18:28:28 <AnMaster> yet on OS X and windows there seems to be compatiblity issues very often
18:29:13 <AnMaster> anyone know a channel discussing classical music?
18:31:41 <GregorR-L> (The shot family and sent bill for bullets sadness)
18:33:03 <ehird> fizzie: with AnMaster's convincing 2 line argument based on minimal, biased anecdotal evidence you'd better switch all of your machines to a 1 year old linux kernel
18:33:09 <ehird> also, don't use udev, because he said so.
18:33:52 <pikhq> I thought most Linux software worked just fine on 2.6.16 and newer.
18:34:07 <AnMaster> I just said, from my own experience that even if you don't update it tends to be easy to use older kernels
18:34:36 <AnMaster> also you can have some issues with glibc, depending on the minimal version it is built for
18:35:31 <fizzie> Yes, well, I don't have an "often" feeling for OS X issues, possibly because I don't use it very often either, but I've sort-of been dreading the day people start dropping Tiggur support; VLC is the first case I ran into. Admittedly Tiger is rather more than "1 year old", given that it was released in 2005.
18:37:07 <pikhq> AnMaster: 2.6.16 is still maintained by some people who want a stable branch.
18:37:45 <AnMaster> I have recently successfully used a 2.4 kernel
18:38:09 <AnMaster> compiled with gcc 3.4 though, didn't try newer gcc
18:38:42 <ehird> fizzie: most apps i see don't work on tiger these days
18:38:49 <ehird> just pirate leopard, it's great
18:39:00 <AnMaster> http://kernel.org/ <-- even 2.2 is listed there
18:39:04 <fizzie> I don't want to be an evil space-pirate.
18:39:08 <AnMaster> and the 2.4 kernel listed is from 2009
18:39:30 <GregorR-L> GCC 4 would probably work fine on kernel 2.2
18:39:39 <fizzie> I don't suppose they're going to start selling Leopard extra-cheap after the Snow Leopard is released? My PPC iBook won't run 10.6 anyway.
18:39:50 <GregorR-L> (In that the libc is more important, and I would be quite surprised if the most recent glibc didn't work on 2.2)
18:40:11 <ehird> fizzie: They won't sell it at all.
18:40:40 <fizzie> VLC 1.0.0's OS X changelog also lists "Speed improvements by using llvm-gcc".
18:40:45 <ehird> fizzie: Anyway, you sent me that evil pirate quickbasic.
18:40:46 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Small chance Glibc 2.11 will finally dumb 2.2 support. :P
18:40:49 <ehird> you're already in space.
18:40:56 <ehird> pikhq: eglibc might! :P
18:41:29 <GregorR-L> Well, dropping all support for linuxthreads would do it, but IIRC it's still an option in the latest glibc.
18:41:35 <pikhq> AnMaster: No, dumb. :P
18:58:22 <AnMaster> it shuffles playlist for cd to be sorted by track name from freedb
18:58:30 <AnMaster> I want to play it in original cd order
18:59:09 <ehird> use an actual music player.
19:00:55 <AnMaster> pikhq, mplayer doesn't have a playlist does it?
19:01:23 <pikhq> It's got command line arguments.
19:01:26 <ehird> mpd, amarok, rhythmbox, banshee, ...
19:01:34 <ehird> you know; things designed to handle a library of music.
19:02:11 <GregorR-L> mplayer -cache 1024 -shuffle -playlist foo -vo x11 -fs
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19:03:15 <GregorR-L> Have I mentioned that mplayer is the only player I use? :P
19:03:23 <GregorR-L> And that {g,k,whatever}mplayer is for pussies?
19:03:38 <GregorR-L> And that mencoder is pretty sweet too, although I'll admit I use ffmpeg for some things there.
19:03:49 <AnMaster> hm it seems I'm connected using ipv6 actually, how strange
19:03:53 -!- AnMaster has changed nick to AnMaster_ipv6.
19:04:05 <GregorR-L> Wouldn't want to fail to announce your IPv6itude.
19:04:10 -!- coppro has joined.
19:04:13 <ehird> GregorR-L: exactly my thoughts.
19:04:28 <GregorR-L> Now as far as coppro knows I just said something profound.
19:14:41 <oklopol> GregorR-L: wow that was insightful
19:15:02 <GregorR-L> oklopol: I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the moment is gone P
19:15:47 <oklopol> i know, i think that was why i did it
19:16:16 <GregorR-L> The next time somebody logs in, everybody act like oklopol just said something both insightful AND profound.
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19:21:35 <oklopol> yes, generally, our university has a pretty nice website
19:21:58 <oklopol> maybe it's because i know how it works
19:22:13 <ehird> your university is dna
19:22:21 <ehird> note: the page ain't loaded yet
19:22:50 <GregorR-L> www.cs.purdue.edu isn't that bad, except that for a CS department we sure can't figure out how to drop a fekking 'www'
19:22:57 <GregorR-L> (cs.purdue.edu actually DOES NOT WORK. Incredible)
19:23:16 <GregorR-L> cs.purdue.edu used to not work, now it forwards :P
19:23:25 <GregorR-L> ehird: It should be cs.purdue.edu, but it's www.cs.purdue.edu
19:23:34 <ehird> GregorR-L: no, it should be www.www.cs.perdue.edu
19:23:41 <oklopol> but utu means like fog, so it's all good
19:23:41 <oklopol> heh, we have the exact same thing
19:23:49 <ehird> GregorR-L: as i said.
19:25:05 <oklopol> actually i didn't get it either
19:25:13 <ehird> you didn't get it faster? :D
19:25:43 <oklopol> i got it faster than GregorR-L, because i'm a superior being
19:25:48 <ehird> Welcome to the University of quality and vision
19:25:48 <ehird> The University of Turku is an internationally acknowledged, multidisciplinary scientific university located on the Southwest coast of Finland, in the vivid city of Turku. With its 18,000 students and 3,000 employees, it is the second largest university in Finland. Expertise within the University and its six faculties ranges from humanities to natural sciences. Read Rectors Greeting
19:25:50 <oklopol> but i didn't get it instantly
19:25:56 <ehird> as opposed to the fuzzy, blurry city.
19:26:02 <ehird> YOU KNOW THE TYPWE
19:27:08 <oklopol> also i wouldn't call it that vivid
19:27:37 <HackEgo> * graphic: evoking lifelike images within the mind; "pictorial poetry and prose"; "graphic accounts of battle"; "a lifelike portrait"; "a vivid ... \ * having the clarity and freshness of immediate experience; "a vivid recollection" \ * bright: having striking color; "bright dress"; "brilliant tapestries";
19:27:48 <GregorR-L> Yeah, that's what vivid means alright.
19:28:01 <HackEgo> * ashen: anemic looking from illness or emotion; "a face turned ashen"; "the invalid's blanched cheeks"; "tried to speak with bloodless lips"; "a ... \ * (of a light) imparting a deathlike luminosity; "livid lightning streaked the sky"; "a thousand flambeaux...turned all at once that deep gloom into a livid and
19:28:18 <ehird> a thousand flame bux
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19:30:52 <GregorR-L> AnMaster_ipv6: It defines synonyms too. Just look past that.
19:31:49 <GregorR-L> Uh, no, ashen is roughly a synonym of livid.
19:32:50 <AnMaster_ipv6> furiously angry; "willful stupidity makes him absolutely livid"
19:32:53 <oklopol> AnMaster_ipv6 enjoys the finer subtleties of linguistics
19:32:59 <ehird> that's the definitoin of livid i've usually heard
19:33:01 <ehird> what AnMaster_ipv6 said
19:33:01 <oklopol> he's not fine with "roughly a synonym"
19:33:47 <GregorR-L> Anyway, "vivid" makes no sense for describing a city :P
19:34:02 <GregorR-L> A PAINTING of a city can be vivid.
19:34:07 <GregorR-L> Your MEMORY of a city can be vivid.
19:34:15 <GregorR-L> Hell, your PICTURES of a city can be vivid.
19:37:28 <AnMaster_ipv6> " YouTube & Google accounts have been linked successfully." <-- hey, since when could you do that?
19:38:20 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: a year.
19:40:01 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: yes, but why would you?
19:40:10 <ehird> youtube ARE totally owned by google.
19:40:15 <ehird> there's no reason to have it separate.
19:40:24 <Deewiant> I made the mistake of doing that and now I can't use my youtube account anymore (since I'd always have to log out before going to google, which I can't be bothered to)
19:40:35 <ehird> Deewiant: delink from your other account
19:40:37 <ehird> link it to the other one
19:40:48 <Deewiant> Eh, they can be delinked? I thought it said it was impossible
19:40:55 <ehird> It's in the preferences.
19:41:25 <ehird> Deewiant: AnMaster_ipv6: http://www.youtube.com/account#manage/status
19:41:32 <ehird> "Unlink YouTube and Google Accounts "
19:41:39 <ehird> Then just do the link business with the other account.
19:42:11 <Deewiant> Also, it's not about linking to any other account
19:42:17 <Deewiant> I don't want to be logged in to anything when I use google search
19:42:46 <AnMaster_ipv6> You are currently using 20MB (0%) of your 7347MB. <-- that (both of them) grew since I last looked
19:43:02 <AnMaster_ipv6> I remember seeing some "gmail as extra harddrive thingy"
19:43:39 <Deewiant> I wonder how I'm using 3 MB given that I have no mail there at all
19:43:53 <Deewiant> I doubt settings would take up that much space :-P
19:44:16 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: just email the files to yourself :P
19:44:21 <ehird> and assign the label Files
19:44:25 <ehird> bonus: searchability
19:44:41 <Deewiant> There is no mail there at all, it gets forwarded to the account I have with my ISP
19:44:45 <AnMaster_ipv6> <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: just email the files to yourself :P <-- iirc that was how it worked
19:45:00 <ehird> yeah there is i think
19:45:15 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: would work for sensitive files too, BTW, just not as the only source for losable files
19:45:16 <Deewiant> gmailfs came out in 2005 or something
19:45:41 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: 'there was some libgmail or something for it' couldn't be made more idiomatic without a total restructuring but it's fine.
19:46:09 <AnMaster_ipv6> ehird, google have more computer resources than NSA. Why the heck should I trust my encryption
19:46:27 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: why are you using such untrustable encryption?
19:46:36 <ehird> unless you SERIOUSLY think google can break 2048-bit PGP
19:46:47 <ehird> in which case, get serious psychiatric aid immediately.
19:46:58 <ehird> Unless Google have a fucking dyson sphere I'm not aware of, NO.
19:47:22 <ehird> Meanwhile, AnMaster_ipv6 still thinks that bad jokes can substitute for arguments and leaves it at that.
19:47:39 <ehird> 19:46 AnMaster_ipv6: ehird, google have more computer resources than NSA. Why the heck should I trust my encryption
19:47:48 <ehird> 19:46 * Audience laughs
19:47:55 <ehird> Yes. Positively superb comedy.
19:47:59 <ehird> I laughed my ass off.
19:48:14 <ehird> By which I mean "no, I'm fairly certain that wasn't a joke originally".
19:48:31 <ehird> Maybe you should educate yourself on what a joke actually is………………………
19:49:14 <AnMaster_ipv6> ehird, I read Ryan North's "jokes explained", and the explanations of it! ;P
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20:00:27 <AnMaster_ipv6> ehird, what do you think about trivia sections on wikipedia? IIRC wikipedia themselves dislike it
20:00:42 <AnMaster_ipv6> but today I actually found what I wanted to know in such a trivia section
20:01:08 <AnMaster_ipv6> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_St._Martin_in_the_Fields '* The name of the orchestra was originally The Academy of St.-Martin-in-the-Fields. The hyphens were dropped in 1988.'
20:02:13 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: that could go in the history section.
20:02:23 <ehird> "Founded as blah..." "In 1988, they changed their name to..."
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20:07:38 <AnMaster_ipv6> I'm considering getting the complete works of Mozart on CD
20:09:58 <ehird> That'd only take 70 years to listen to.
20:10:06 <ehird> On CD is pointless, though.
20:10:14 <ehird> You'd either have to rip them or really like swapping discs.
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20:22:17 <AnMaster_ipv6> unusual key colouring: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/FortepianoByMcNultyAfterWalter1805.jpg
20:23:29 <AnMaster_ipv6> ehird, image label says "Copy of a pianoforte from 1805."
20:23:44 <ehird> i'd like one just to look at it
20:24:34 <ehird> uhh, i have a theremin. i imagine 90% of the people who own one can play as well as me, so let's say yes
20:24:42 <ehird> (note: this does not imply i'm of any skill at all at it)
20:25:03 <AnMaster_ipv6> ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin that?
20:25:24 <oklopol> well to tell you the truth i'm pretty tired
20:25:24 <oklopol> i did see a cat today though
20:25:37 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: bring your own steady hands.
20:25:41 <ehird> unless you're avant garde.
20:25:44 <ehird> oklopol: awesome cats.
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20:27:11 <oklopol> i'd like to learn to play the saw
20:27:18 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW0B1sipLBI&feature=channel_page and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJYho56INKU are cute.
20:27:43 <oklopol> GregorR: do you give any actual courses?
20:27:52 <fizzie> Wahh, I can't get a wide enough hat from LaTeX. The \widehat{...} using AMS fonts only grows to something like 5ex wide. With \usepackage{yhmath} I get a bit wider hat (though not wide enough), but as a side effect all sum and integral signs disappear from the dvips output .ps (but not the .dvi) file.
20:28:03 <ehird> fizzie: \gigantichat
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20:28:47 <fizzie> I tried \hugehat, but "! Undefined control sequence".
20:28:50 -!- Judofyr has joined.
20:29:02 <ehird> draw your own hat.
20:30:22 -!- pikhq has joined.
20:30:49 <fizzie> It seems I will have to, but it's always so finicky. The good thing about \widehat is that it doesn't (for example) mess with the baselines of under-hat and outside-hat texts, like using a array-environment manual-hattery would.
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20:40:31 <oklopol> ehird: give me your theremin
20:42:13 <oklopol> also when are you going to send me that £20
20:45:32 <Deewiant> fizzie: What do you need to hat?
20:50:34 <fizzie> Deewiant: It's for that "\hat{f} is the Fourier transform of f" notation; our lecture material uses some Really Big Hats (TM) to denote Fourier transforms of more complicated things.
20:51:05 <Deewiant> Can you ask whoever made said material
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20:52:00 <fizzie> Deewiant: It's written with pen-and-paper, that doesn't really help. They're going to typeset it properly later, I guess. But you're right, maybe I could try to find some wide-hat example somewhere.
20:54:24 <AnMaster_ipv6> <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW0B1sipLBI&feature=channel_page and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJYho56INKU are cute. <-- Zelda! :D
20:56:14 <AnMaster_ipv6> ehird, one hand gives the tone the other the beat basically?
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20:58:59 <oklopol> AnMaster_ipv6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd4jvtAr8JM&feature=fvw for a dude as weird as his instrument showing how it works.
20:59:41 <fizzie> Well, the "accents" package can stick any symbol as a fakey-accent in math mode, so I guess I just need to find a way to draw a suitable triangle.
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21:10:37 <fizzie> Yay, with \newsavebox{\customhata} and \begin{lrbox}{\customhata} \begin{picture} ... \end{picture} \end{lrbox} and then \accentset{\usebox{\customhata}}{...complicated expression...} I got a reasonable hat. It doesn't have the pretty "tapers off at the ends, thicker in the middle" shape the real hats have, since the picture environment is so awful for drawing, but it'll do.
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21:18:54 <pikhq> AnMaster_ipv6: What you talking about, a theremin?
21:19:27 <pikhq> AnMaster_ipv6: One hand is the tone, the other is the volume.
21:19:46 <pikhq> And they are awesome.
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21:25:22 <pikhq> AnMaster_ipv6: It's radiotastic.
21:27:06 <AnMaster_ipv6> pikhq, how fast can you play on one? I mean, could you play a presto or even an allegro?
21:27:41 <pikhq> AnMaster_ipv6: Depends on how fast you are.
21:28:28 <pikhq> Most people play a theremin legato. ;)
21:28:55 <AnMaster_ipv6> a skilled piano player could manage it, so could a skilled violinist iirc.
21:29:13 <GregorR> I believe that the problem with the Theremin is the Theremin, not the player.
21:29:47 * AnMaster_ipv6 is listening to " Academy of St. Martin-In-The-Fields - Eine kleine Nachtmusik KV525 Serenade in G major: 4. Rondo-Allegro"
21:30:13 <GregorR> Otherwise, somebody would be playin' some bitchin' Theremin.
21:33:31 <AnMaster_ipv6> mmm http://musicbrainz.org/track/137a39a5-7afa-43ce-94ad-12995f07c6c5.html
21:34:01 <AnMaster_ipv6> Pachelbel's Canon is really wonderful. Don't you agree GregorR?
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21:34:27 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, true, it is popular. But it is still good.
21:34:36 <GregorR> To the point that every time I hear it all I can think is DUNN DUNN DUNN DUNN GOOD LORD STOP THIS DUNN DUNN DUNN DUNN WHY WON'T THIS END
21:35:00 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, I usually prefer less well known classical music. Kraus is a prime example of that.
21:35:12 <GregorR> Josef Suk's Fantastic Scherzo
21:35:24 <GregorR> "Fantastic Scherzo" is the name, I'm not just describing it :P
21:36:21 <GregorR> Hold, I'm checking if YouTube has it
21:36:39 <GregorR> Bleh, broken into two parts. That's lamesauce.
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21:38:12 <GregorR> I can't decide if you're being sarcastic :P
21:39:16 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, Leopold Mozart: Cassatio ex G, including the "Toy Symphony": Marche
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21:40:19 <AnMaster_ipv6> if you are interested I guess I could mess around with cdparanoia and give you a *.flac
21:41:03 <GregorR> Played live, on non-standard instruments.
21:41:11 <GregorR> At a concert in the park in Portland.
21:41:20 <GregorR> This is why Portland, OR > Europe :P
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21:41:54 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, wrong. The recording I have is from "Academy of St. Martin in the Fields", which is located in UK
21:42:21 <GregorR> That's not played live in the park I'll bet ;)
21:42:23 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, do you have a local chamber orchestra within 20 km of where you live btw?
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21:43:07 <GregorR> Yes. I live within blocks of the second largest concert hall in the US.
21:43:26 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, is that symphony orchestra or chamber orchestra?
21:43:53 <GregorR> There are assorted university orchestras :P
21:44:26 <GregorR> TBH I don't even know if there's a professional orchestra here.
21:44:54 <GregorR> And if the guys renovating the apartment of mine aren't nailing something into the floor, then they must just be hitting the floor with a fekking hammer for no reason.
21:45:06 <GregorR> I was MOSTLY kidding. I live in a college town :P
21:47:04 <GregorR> My download is pretty schweet btw.
21:47:09 <GregorR> But yeah, my upload is garbage.
21:47:38 <GregorR> Schweet-for-the-USA-anyway schweet?
21:47:44 <GregorR> Everything's slower in the US :P
21:47:57 <GregorR> I have cable, but it is wildly asymmetric, yes :P
21:48:33 <GregorR> That's what I was wondering.
21:48:59 <GregorR> I assume that 19.1MB is equal to 29933 cups.
21:49:05 <GregorR> `calc 29933 cups in liters
21:49:07 <HackEgo> 29 933 US cups = 7 081.79568 liters
21:49:21 <oerjan> everything's bigger in the US. given the light speed limit, it thus follows that everything must be slower.
21:49:21 <Gracenotes> AnMaster_ipv6: ah, well maybe you both do
21:49:25 <GregorR> So enjoy your 7,000 liters of music.
21:49:35 <GregorR> AnMaster_ipv6: Late romantic.
21:50:12 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, right, explains why it is nice. I can't stand most of Beethoven, but Grieg for example is fine.
21:50:34 <GregorR> So ironically, you /don't/ like classical music :P
21:50:46 <GregorR> Or do you prefer Mozart the son and Hayden?
21:50:52 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, I do like Hadyn a lot, Mozart is quite good too
21:51:30 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, also I said "most of Beethoven", meaning specifically his later works.
21:51:59 <GregorR> I would say that depends heavily on your definition of "most" :P
21:52:02 <AnMaster_ipv6> I also like baroque music, like Vivaldi. Don't really like Bach though... Too much organ.
21:52:05 <GregorR> I mostly prefer romantic-era to modern.
21:52:33 <GregorR> Where "modern" is defined as <1950, really X-D
21:54:03 <AnMaster_ipv6> Grieg? A bit sad a lot of his music has been "misused" in movies and such.
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21:54:29 <GregorR> As opposed to, oh, Bach's :P
21:54:40 <GregorR> Or Beethoven's, or Hayden's, or ...
21:54:40 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, I don't watch that type of movies I think
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21:55:13 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, listen to Peer Gynt in Norwegian. It is really worth it. At least if you understand enough of the language.
21:55:30 <GregorR> Well, I do speak Norwegian almost fluently.
21:55:55 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, I don't, but I speak Swedish fluently, and that is enough to mostly understand large parts of Norwegian.
21:56:09 <GregorR> I speak English, and it's MOSTLY the same.
21:56:51 <GregorR> Well, if I'm listening to it, then that's less important :P
21:57:08 <oerjan> what, you think _i_ have read peer gynt? *duck*
21:57:43 <oerjan> like probably 99% of norwegians, i only know the first verses :)
21:57:54 <AnMaster_ipv6> oerjan, not read. I haven't either. I meant listened to the opera.
21:58:58 <oerjan> "Peer, du lyver!" "Nei, jeg gjør ei!" "Ja så bann på det er sant!" "Hvorfor banne?" "Tvi, du tør ei! Alt i hop er tøv og tant!"
21:58:58 <AnMaster_ipv6> oerjan, at least you listened to the Peer Gynt suites I hope?!
21:59:20 <oerjan> obviously i have heard some of it
21:59:40 <oerjan> Hall of the mountain king and such
22:00:25 <AnMaster_ipv6> oerjan, skiing downwards == hate, skiing along flat ground == :)
22:02:28 <oerjan> cross-country skiing i also hate. no one ever managed to make me ski downwards to any significant degree :D
22:03:33 <AnMaster_ipv6> Gracenotes, lovely scherzo that. A bit long though. I prefer 4-6 minutes / movement
22:04:28 <GregorR> Hahah, well then I probably have nothing else to send you X-D
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22:05:07 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, basically I dislike having headphones for too long
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22:05:18 <GregorR> I choose to answer an enthusiastic "yes" with all conspicuous implications in place.
22:05:54 <AnMaster_ipv6> Gracenotes, I need to switch to my cheaper headphones for longer continuous stretches, less pressure on the head... But worse sound too.
22:06:19 <GregorR> I have ultracheapo headphones :P
22:06:46 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, I have ones where the manual specifies frequency range, and talks about how user serviceable the inside is.
22:07:16 <Gracenotes> one day you shall learn, AnMaster_ipv6-san
22:07:21 <pikhq> AnMaster_ipv6: I hope they also have things like a replacable cord.
22:07:29 <GregorR> Bose had a commercial for headphones that came with a free MP3 player. This is how expensive Bose is.
22:07:32 <pikhq> (that tends to be the first to go with headphones)
22:08:04 <pikhq> GregorR: ... MP3 players these days are kinda cheap. ;)
22:08:12 <AnMaster_ipv6> http://www.beyerdynamic.de/en/broadcast-studio-video-production/products/headphonesheadsets/headphones.html?tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1%5BshowUid%5D%5BshowUID%5D=41&tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1%5BshowUid%5D%5BbackPID%5D=93&cHash=0fd1ee1ab1
22:08:19 <GregorR> pikhq: Yeah, but they also come with ... FREE HEADPHONES :P
22:08:35 <AnMaster_ipv6> <Gracenotes> one day you shall learn, AnMaster_ipv6-san <-- "san"?
22:09:42 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, the issue is "Average pressure on ear acc. to IEC 60268-7 4.5 N"
22:10:18 <pikhq> AnMaster_ipv6: Wow.
22:10:28 <AnMaster_ipv6> I suspect it is more due to me having a rather big head.
22:10:42 <fizzie> As long as we're comparing headphones, mine are rather closed too -- http://www.dansdata.com/hd280.htm -- so having them on for a multiple of hours is not very comfortable.
22:11:04 <pikhq> I've got el-cheapos, simply because I don't care that much.
22:11:21 <pikhq> (I only use headphones for my MP3 player; I tend to listen to most music with speakers)
22:11:28 <AnMaster_ipv6> GregorR, pikhq, "Frequency response 5 - 30,000 Hz" more than make up for the pressure
22:11:45 <fizzie> I think I boughteded these when I lived in a noisy place, since they do silencify background noise a reasonable amount.
22:11:45 <pikhq> AnMaster_ipv6: That's 10,000 Hz more than you need on the top.
22:11:52 <pikhq> On the bottom, though, that's impressive.
22:12:08 <AnMaster_ipv6> pikhq, correct. Beyerdyanmics sell ones that go up to 35000 Hz too. I didn't see the point.
22:12:25 <pikhq> AnMaster_ipv6: Dogs?
22:12:25 <GregorR> Lesse what the Boses do...
22:13:01 <AnMaster_ipv6> pikhq, I doubt they would market them as "Studio/Monitoring/Reference" then
22:13:18 <AnMaster_ipv6> pikhq, here for example http://www.beyerdynamic.de/en/broadcast-studio-video-production/products/headphonesheadsets/headphones.html?tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1%5BshowUid%5D%5BshowUID%5D=45&tx_sbproductdatabase_pi1%5BshowUid%5D%5BbackPID%5D=93&cHash=cb51219012
22:14:27 <AnMaster_ipv6> <GregorR> Enjoy your 5Hz buzz. <-- they are so good I can hear that on board VIA audio is worse than my old SB Live!
22:14:47 <GregorR> http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/audio_headphones/in_ear_headphones/index.jsp <-- Bose's earBUDs are $90
22:15:15 <fizzie> http://www.headphone.com/technical/product-measurements/build-a-graph.php lets you compare actual measured frequency responses instead of manufacturer hype; unfortunately they don't have every headphone model in existence.
22:16:34 <fizzie> Mine are there, because I think I bought them somewhat based on their review.
22:16:38 <ehird> 20:56 AnMaster_ipv6: ehird, one hand gives the tone the other the beat basically?
22:16:48 <ehird> 20:58 AnMaster_ipv6: ehird, rather different sound of it in those two?
22:16:51 <ehird> it has pitch knobs etc
22:17:13 <pikhq> ehird: BTW, nice job having a theremin.
22:17:17 <pikhq> Such a cool instrument.
22:17:34 <ehird> it is. It's also way, way harder than it looks.
22:17:48 <pikhq> It looks pretty fucking hard.
22:17:53 <ehird> 21:27 AnMaster_ipv6: pikhq, how fast can you play on one? I mean, could you play a presto or even an allegro?
22:17:55 <ehird> You can play anything.
22:18:03 <GregorR> OMFG, Bose has payment plans for earphones.
22:18:04 <ehird> Some people are really amazing at it.
22:18:18 <pikhq> ehird: The question is "what are the human limits on tempo?". ;)
22:18:33 <ehird> AnMaster_ipv6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC72q7kkiPo&feature=channel here's the first classical i found on the theremin
22:18:42 <ehird> but also shows that it can sound really, well ,orchestral
22:18:53 <pikhq> GregorR: I believe it.
22:19:02 <GregorR> A single instrument that sounds like an orchestra? Incredible :P
22:19:30 <ehird> 21:37 AnMaster_ipv6: GregorR, 28.8 kbps? Nice upload speed you have.
22:19:34 <ehird> old modem download speed!
22:19:51 <GregorR> ehird: That's actually KBps, AnMaster_ipv6 just doesn't know how to specify :P
22:20:47 <ehird> 21:44 GregorR: And if the guys renovating the apartment of mine aren't nailing something into the floor, then they must just be hitting the floor with a fekking hammer for no reason.
22:20:51 <ehird> our neighbours do that a lot
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22:21:34 <GregorR> Do you notice how this professional has a reaaaaaally hard time keeping the pitch right? That's because the Theremin is a completely fekking impossible instrument to play :P
22:22:25 <ehird> 22:08 AnMaster_ipv6: <Gracenotes> one day you shall learn, AnMaster_ipv6-san <-- "san"?
22:22:31 <ehird> japanese honorific suffix
22:22:50 <ehird> -san is analogous to Mr.
22:23:11 <GregorR> ehird: ... Bose? No, to my knowledge Bose is not a scam, they actually make some of the best sound equipment in the world.
22:23:13 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#San
22:23:39 <ehird> 22:11 AnMaster_ipv6: GregorR, pikhq, "Frequency response 5 - 30,000 Hz" more than make up for the pressure
22:23:44 <ehird> i'd prefer shitty music that doesn't hurt me.
22:23:44 <GregorR> AnMaster: Count yourself lucky.
22:23:46 <AnMaster> I lost power for half a second ehird
22:23:48 <GregorR> AnMaster: ehird's been logreading.
22:24:16 <fizzie> AnMaster: Well, I also said "<fizzie> Mine are there, because I think I bought them somewhat based on their review." but that's maybe not the most important comment evar.
22:24:30 <ehird> AnMaster: I'd advise to check the logs for my reading; I answered questions you had.
22:25:20 <ehird> "The HD 280 Pro sells for about $US100 (versus less than $US70 for the worth-maybe-$US15 HD 270s)." ← Cheap :P
22:25:27 <ehird> I totally prefer speakers.
22:26:07 <ehird> AnMaster: Well, I'm not pasting the answers to all your questions again.
22:26:23 <ehird> Will you explode if you look at the logfile for them or something?
22:26:26 <AnMaster> ehird, I prefer stuff not annoying other people
22:26:32 <AnMaster> otherwise I would also prefer speakers
22:26:48 <ehird> Hokay, just answer another question instead.
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22:26:52 <AnMaster> I know I'm annoyed by other people using speakers
22:27:08 <GregorR> I'm annoyed by other people using headphones too loud :P
22:27:18 <AnMaster> ehird, ouch that might happen AS WELL
22:27:18 <ehird> you asked for it, AnMaster
22:27:34 <ehird> 22:16 ehird: 20:58 AnMaster_ipv6: ehird, rather different sound of it in those two?
22:27:34 <ehird> 22:16 ehird: it has pitch knobs etc
22:27:35 <ehird> 22:16 ehird: brightnses
22:27:38 <ehird> 22:16 ehird: and the like
22:27:40 <ehird> 22:16 ehird: brightness
22:27:41 <ehird> 22:17 ehird: 21:27 AnMaster_ipv6: pikhq, how fast can you play on one? I mean, could you play a presto or even an allegro?
22:27:44 <ehird> 22:17 ehird: You can play anything.
22:27:47 <ehird> 22:18 ehird: Some people are really amazing at it.
22:27:49 <ehird> 22:18 ehird: AnMaster_ipv6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC72q7kkiPo&feature=channel here's the first classical i found on the theremin
22:27:54 <ehird> 22:18 ehird: but also shows that it can sound really, well ,orchestral
22:27:56 <ehird> 22:22 ehird: 22:08 AnMaster_ipv6: <Gracenotes> one day you shall learn, AnMaster_ipv6-san <-- "san"?
22:28:00 <ehird> 22:22 ehird: japanese honorific suffix
22:28:01 <ehird> 22:22 ehird: -san is analogous to Mr.
22:28:03 <ehird> 22:23 ehird: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#San
22:28:05 <ehird> 22:23 ehird: 22:11 AnMaster_ipv6: GregorR, pikhq, "Frequency response 5 - 30,000 Hz" more than make up for the pressure
22:28:08 <ehird> 22:23 ehird: i'd prefer shitty music that doesn't hurt me.
22:29:03 <GregorR> I also mentioned that you should note that the Theremin...ist? is doing a pretty crummy job in that video, but it's totally not his fault since it's an impossible instrument.
22:29:09 <ehird> Remind me to never bother answering any questions you ask again.
22:29:40 <ehird> (Who knew that 17 lines is "tl;dr"?)
22:30:17 <ehird> It's hard to tell sometimes, but kay.
22:30:48 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ywH1Vj8_U moar thererrereremin
22:30:53 <ehird> lemme find that raelly awesome one
22:31:07 <ehird> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSzTPGlNa5U
22:31:14 <ehird> IIRC, considered one of the best theremin players.
22:31:26 <AnMaster> <ehird> 22:18 ehird: AnMaster_ipv6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC72q7kkiPo&feature=channel here's the first classical i found on the theremin <-- nice... kind of
22:31:34 <ehird> yeah that one wasn't too goo
22:31:37 <ehird> i didn't listen before linking
22:31:57 <AnMaster> I never liked the original Meditation from Thaïs
22:32:09 <AnMaster> this rendation is actually nice...
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22:34:40 <AnMaster> ehird, 'Theremin - Clara Rockmore play "The Swan" (Saint-Saëns)' <-- you knew I liked that suite it is from?
22:35:06 * AnMaster is is still listening to the one before
22:35:26 <ehird> I wonder if there's any classical music with a real beat.
22:35:29 <ehird> I've never heard any.
22:36:27 <GregorR> I shudder to think what you mean by that.
22:36:34 <GregorR> However, I direct you to any of the trillions of classical marches.
22:36:38 <ehird> I wasn't making any subjective judgment.
22:36:40 <ehird> Also, true, marches.
22:36:43 <ehird> Apart from marches.
22:37:20 <fizzie> BL;ARG. From "*b*loody *l*ong; *a*in't a *r*eading *g*uy."
22:39:40 <ehird> FUCKYOU — For understanding cocks, know your own urethra.
22:40:31 <GregorR> What a useless piece of advice?
22:40:40 <ehird> Hey, it's perfectly true. FUCKYOU.
22:41:43 <GregorR> TSBLU: To See Blue Look Up. True when outside in the day and it's not overcast. Still not a useful statement.
22:43:05 <ehird> FUCKYOU; TSBLU is good advice too.
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