00:05:26 -!- coppro has quit (Connection timed out).
00:05:33 <HackEgo> 1|<Aftran> I've always wanted to kill someone. >.>
00:06:32 <HackEgo> 1|<Aftran> I've always wanted to kill someone. >.>
00:06:35 <HackEgo> 1|<Aftran> I've always wanted to kill someone. >.>
00:06:43 <ehird> GregorR: it's a bit single-minded, don't you think?
00:06:51 <HackEgo> 8|<Warrigal> GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 9|<Quas_NaArt> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR>
00:07:01 <HackEgo> 1|<Aftran> I've always wanted to kill someone. >.>
00:07:03 <ehird> ...wtf at that cutoff
00:07:06 <ehird> HackEgo: 8|<Warrigal> GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 9|<Quas_NaArt> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR>
00:07:19 <HackEgo> 2|<Aftran> I used computational linguistics to kill her.
00:07:49 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ DB="sqlite3 quotes/quote.db" \ \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ ARG=$1 \ ID=$((ARG+0)) \ if [ "$ID" = "$ARG" ] \ then \ $DB 'SELECT id,quote FROM quotes WHERE id='$ID \ else \ ARG=`echo "$ARG" | sed 's/'\''/'\'\''/g'` \ $DB 'SELECT id,quote FROM quotes WHERE quote LIKE
00:07:57 <Warrigal> English doesn't have a good way to represent the [y] sound.
00:08:19 <ehird> Status: Synchronising...
00:08:19 <ehird> Downloaded 4313 messages
00:08:23 <ehird> If you disconnect now, you will have access to mail back to 1 June 2009.
00:08:25 <ehird> Go into Unstable Connection Mode
00:08:31 <ehird> That's like TWO MONTHS MINUS TEN DAYS.
00:08:55 <ais523> is that more or less than you were expecting?
00:10:37 <GregorR> Neither is `fetch or `help
00:10:53 * Warrigal will never, ever stop rocking.
00:11:08 <GregorR> And bin/"fetch bin/help" is definitely not a file :P
00:11:34 <Warrigal> `echo `a `b ĉ ð ə ſ ` `h `i `j χ `l `m ŋ `o φ `q ɚ ʃ þ `u `v `w `x `y `z
00:11:35 <HackEgo> `a `b ĉ ð ə ſ ` `h `i `j χ `l `m ŋ `o φ `q ɚ ʃ þ `u `v `w `x `y `z
00:12:33 <Warrigal> Should I just assign a, b, h, i, j, l, m, o, q, u, v, w, x, y and z randomly so that I will mess up all the time instead of just half the time?
00:12:56 <Warrigal> Maybe I should set `y and `Y to be ψ and Ψ.
00:58:12 <ehird> Hahahaha, amazon.co.uk stock a Mac Pro with 1GB of memory.
00:58:36 <ais523> I don't know whether 1GB is a lot nowadays
00:58:50 <ehird> ais523: 1GB isn't even enough for a laptop.
00:59:26 <ehird> ais523: For a Mac Pro, you'd be looking at 6GB at the lowest, 8GB to 12GB average and 24GB upper
00:59:52 <ehird> The one listed has a quad-core Xeon processor with it, so it's rather ridiculous.
01:00:00 <ehird> It'd be an utter waste.
01:01:21 <pikhq> 4GB is $50 or less.
01:01:22 <ehird> pikhq: Yeah. Even in a bloody netbook I'd stick 2GB in.
01:01:53 <ehird> 1GB in a high-end, boutique workstation with a quad-core processor is just unbelievably ridiculous.
01:02:06 <pikhq> ais523: Lemme put it this way: my 5 year old system that I just upgraded from had 1GB of RAM.
01:02:21 <pikhq> And it wasn't a particularly good system 5 years ago.
01:02:48 <ehird> pikhq: Note that ais523 has gone on record saying something along the lines of "a few years ago I'd expect to pay £500 for a computer (laptop); now i'd expect to pay about £200-£300"
01:03:06 <ehird> Talking about anything high-end may be lost in translation.
01:03:30 <pikhq> ehird: High-end? 4G isn't high-end, it's what I'd expect in a $300 computer.
01:03:33 <ais523> this one cost £420, along with things like the case and the external floppy drive
01:03:43 <ehird> It CAME WITH A CASE?
01:03:53 <ais523> no, that was bought separately
01:03:57 <ais523> but I only remember the total cost
01:04:40 <pikhq> ais523: Let's put this in perspective for you: 4G of RAM is $50. A quad core processor starts at roughly $100 and works its way up from there. A 1TB HD is about $80.
01:04:51 <ehird> Oh yeah, said machine also came with a 250GB drive.
01:04:56 <pikhq> Your concept of "high end" by now is everyone's concept of "cheap computer".
01:04:58 <ehird> ...which is what I have in this consumer-level machine.
01:05:18 <ehird> ooh, that's clever
01:05:30 <ehird> a flashing fake banner ad saying "NO JOKE!! YOU WON 1 MILLION DOLLARS!!"
01:05:30 <ais523> I still don't get why people end up needing all that extra space; are the programs they run really bloated?
01:05:33 <ehird> ...on an ad blocker site
01:05:40 <ehird> ais523: Uhh, it's not programs that take up the space.
01:05:52 <ehird> ais523: Think TV, movies, music, raw data dumps.
01:05:53 <pikhq> My hard drive is mostly empty right now, but.
01:05:57 <ais523> ehird: well, the data formats they use being bloated counts as program bloat to me
01:06:07 <ais523> also, TV shouldn't take up disk space, just bandwidth
01:06:14 <ais523> unless you're in the habit of recording everything you watch
01:06:30 <ehird> ais523: Yeah, I looooooooove my watching schedule being dictated by the TV companies.
01:06:35 <ehird> Why would I ever want to have a personal library.
01:06:45 <ehird> After all, it's not popular; nobody buys DVDs, after all.
01:07:02 <ais523> I get really annoyed at people who watch the same TV program over and over again
01:07:22 <pikhq> Most of ~/video/ is a queue of things that I have yet to watch.
01:07:29 <ehird> Ever heard of hedonism?
01:07:36 <ehird> If they like watching it again, why not?
01:07:42 <pikhq> (copied via SMB from other people's hard drives at college)
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01:07:57 <ehird> ais523: anyway, there's a huge cultural gap. You don't even like starting a "bloated" modern browser.
01:08:17 <ehird> It's highly unlikely it would be possible to quickly explain to you why high-end machines are needed.
01:08:25 <pikhq> Even I, the freak that uses Ratpoison most of the time, use a modern browser.
01:08:36 <ais523> well, I use Firefox mostly
01:08:37 <pikhq> Granted, it's a modern browser with a freakish interface, but that's beside the point.
01:08:52 <ais523> although I used Epiphany for a while while Firefox 3 was broken on Linux
01:08:56 <ehird> I wonder what ais523 would do if told to edit an HD movie.
01:09:11 <ais523> cut the tape up and stick it back together again with sellotape?
01:09:15 <ais523> I'm still disappointed that that doesn't work
01:09:29 <pikhq> Works for anything on DVHS.
01:09:29 <ehird> ais523: I'm sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but most HD movies are shot with digital cameras.
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01:09:35 <ehird> Dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
01:10:10 <ais523> however, most people don't go around editing large videos
01:10:12 <pikhq> (note: most things are not on D-VHS. Shame, too. Bluray quality, on VHS tapes, in the 90s? Fuck yeah.)
01:10:17 <ais523> also, why HD? most screens can't handle that anyway
01:10:25 <ehird> ais523: Any screen above 1280x768 can handle HD.
01:10:33 <ehird> ais523: Also, ever heard of a thing called CINEMA?
01:10:40 <ehird> They project high-resolution movies on huuuuuuuge screens.
01:10:45 <pikhq> I've had a monitor that can handle HD video for 15 years now.
01:10:46 <ais523> yes, I used to go there occasionally
01:10:59 <ais523> most people wouldn't take their computers to the cinema to persuade them to show videos stored there, though
01:11:00 <ehird> Anyway, some of us don't like being constrained by our hardware.
01:11:06 <ehird> Some of us don't like waiting 3 seconds for basic operations to be completed.
01:11:08 <pikhq> Also, HD video editing is getting ridiculously common.
01:11:10 <ais523> nor would the cinema likely accept the request
01:11:17 <ehird> Some of su just don't like hating our computers; they should work, and work fast
01:11:25 <pikhq> HD video cameras are not too expensive, and Youtube does HD video nowadays.
01:11:26 <ehird> Some of us do non-trivial computation tasks.
01:11:34 <ehird> Maybe because we can; maybe because we want to; maybe for a greater good.
01:11:37 <ehird> It doesn't matter.
01:11:53 <pikhq> ais523: You're approximately 10 years behind the upgrade curve, I think. ;)
01:11:57 <ehird> If you told me to do anything on the computer you're using right now, I'd likely be throwing it out of the window within a few hours.
01:12:10 <pikhq> ehird: Using it as a router?
01:12:11 <ais523> ehird: don't, I like this one
01:12:14 <ais523> and it's fine for programming on
01:12:25 <ehird> If a computer's own limitations and foibles affect what I'm doing to the point of actually hampering it or changing my workflow, that computer is as good as program.
01:12:42 <ehird> DO I PRONOUNCE WORDS BEFORE TYPING THEM OR SOMETHING
01:12:42 <pikhq> ehird: But, man. A Mac Pro with 1G RAM?
01:12:43 <ais523> about 1G memory, according to top
01:12:51 <ais523> processor speed, I don't know offhand; it's a Celeron M
01:12:53 <pikhq> I didn't know they made 1G DDR3 RAM.
01:12:59 <ehird> pikhq: it's not ddr3
01:13:00 <pikhq> ais523: /proc/cpuinfo
01:13:10 <ehird> so Core architecture (= Core 2)
01:13:15 <ehird> (Core brand = NetBurst, I think)
01:13:18 <ais523> 1595 MHz processor speed
01:13:20 <pikhq> ehird: I was only faintly aware they made 1G DDR2 RAM.
01:13:29 <ehird> That's speeeeeeeeeeeeed.
01:13:32 <pikhq> I just upgraded from that.
01:13:42 <ehird> ais523: How many cores?
01:14:10 <ehird> ais523: Oh god, if I ever get into a situation where I ask to use your computer, please hit me over the head with a cluebat.
01:14:12 <pikhq> Seriously, your system is about on par with a netbook, performance-wise.
01:14:17 <pikhq> And sucks a lot more power.
01:14:23 <ehird> pikhq: A gigantic netbook that takes up floorspace!
01:14:33 <pikhq> ehird: Celeron-M implies a laptop.
01:14:37 <ais523> ehird: the strange thing is, this is powerful enough for most of the things I want to do
01:14:40 <ais523> and yes, it is a laptop
01:14:41 <ehird> pikhq: He bought the case separately.
01:14:47 <ehird> ais523: you assembled your own laptop?
01:15:01 <ais523> it's one of the Dell ones which came with Linux preinstalled
01:15:04 <ais523> and a Windows XP manual
01:15:09 <ehird> You said something you bought a case yourself.
01:15:10 <ais523> and I mean, the case to carry it around in
01:15:36 <ais523> you strike me as someone who's never tried to transport a laptop to work every day...
01:15:54 <ehird> It doesn't just contain a CPU.
01:15:56 <pikhq> He's criticising your terminology.
01:16:01 <ais523> yes, it also contains a motherboard and drives, etc
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01:16:10 <ehird> I'ma start calling it a RAM case.
01:16:14 <ehird> It contains RAM, after all.
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01:16:27 <pikhq> I prefer calling it an Internet case.
01:16:34 <ais523> I'm pretty sure that in some systems, you plug the RAM in the side
01:16:35 <ehird> That's how my computer works.
01:16:39 <ehird> Gremlins. Gremlin electrons.
01:16:44 <ais523> I've never yet seen a system with an external motherboard, though
01:16:44 <ehird> 01:16 ais523: I'm pretty sure that in some systems, you plug the RAM in the side
01:16:51 <ehird> I'm fairly sure that's completely false.
01:16:57 <ehird> No, not fairly sure. Entirely sure.
01:17:01 <ais523> old laptops used to, they had some internal RAM
01:17:08 <pikhq> ais523, imagine it's the year 2000.
01:17:08 <ais523> but to get a decent amount you used external RAM too
01:17:12 <pikhq> You're using a C64.
01:17:14 <ehird> It's not a laptop if you can't fit it on your lap, ais523.
01:17:29 <pikhq> That's the analogy.
01:17:30 <ais523> just normally don't, a table is a lot more stable
01:17:31 <ehird> What, an 80s laptop?
01:17:39 <ehird> Those are the only ones that'll have external ram.
01:17:41 <pikhq> ehird: Oh, right. 80s *laptop*.
01:17:52 <ais523> anyway, this isn't that old; it came with Ubuntu Feisty
01:17:54 <pikhq> Which are not laptops. :P
01:17:58 <ais523> which therefore must have existed at the time I bought it
01:18:06 <ais523> it was bottom-end at the time, though
01:18:10 <ehird> "80s laptop: It Can Fit Into A Briefcase I Guess, If You Have A Really Big Briefcase And Are Also As Strong As The Hulk"
01:18:20 <pikhq> ehird: Also, has a CRT.
01:18:27 <ehird> But itcanfitintoabriefcaseiguessifyouhaveareallybigbriefcaseandarealsoasstrongasthehulktop wasn't as catchy.
01:18:39 <pikhq> ais523: 5 releases ago.
01:18:52 <pikhq> You... Seriously bought that system 2 years ago.
01:19:13 <ais523> pikhq: I feel no need to buy high-end laptops, modern technology works on lower- and lower- end things as time goes on
01:19:35 <ais523> in fact, if it weren't for things like video editing and Windows driving specs up, probably hardware would become less powerful over time as the software got better
01:19:44 <ehird> ais523: It's worth noting that if we went buy the "but Joe Sixpack doesn't need to do any more than word processing and email" argument, we'd be using 1984 Macintoshes.
01:19:55 <ehird> It was measured; word processing tasks were just about equal with the Macintosh as on a modern system.
01:20:00 <ehird> Sometimes the Mac beat it.
01:20:00 <ais523> ehird: it's not about what Joe Sixpack wants to do; it's about what /I/ want to do
01:20:14 <pikhq> ais523: You really should've gotten a netbook.
01:20:14 <ehird> ais523: yes, but that doesn't mean that high end machines aren't useful for most people
01:20:20 <pikhq> Really, truly, epicly.
01:20:21 <ehird> you said that; it's not true
01:20:24 <ehird> you're the exception, really
01:20:26 <ais523> pikhq: they didn't exist then, it was just before they started to be invented
01:20:38 <ehird> ais523: eee pc has been out since early 2007 or so
01:20:40 <ehird> maybe before that.
01:20:44 <ehird> admittedly it was 7"
01:20:55 <pikhq> ehird: Roughly the same specs, though.
01:21:19 <ais523> hmm... this was bought in october or november 2007, I think
01:21:49 <pikhq> Now I'm suspecting you also overpayed.
01:22:10 <ais523> don't worry; I knew I was overpaying, so I didn't mind so mcuh
01:22:31 <ehird> so you're saying that you bought this because you didn't need any more
01:22:32 <pikhq> ... You overpayed for an underspecced system.
01:22:33 <ehird> yet you also paid more for it
01:22:43 <ehird> is this failure in rationality apparent to you?
01:22:44 <pikhq> YOU ARE TERRIBLE AT MAKING PURCHASING DECISIONS
01:22:56 <ehird> Let's buy a commodore 64 for £10,000.
01:22:56 <ais523> no, it was a case of not having to think as much when buying it
01:22:59 <ehird> We don't need anything more.
01:23:23 <ehird> ais523: I think "not thinking when making a purchase" is perfectly consistent with "being really bad at making purchasing decisions".
01:23:28 <ehird> In fact, I suspect a correlation...
01:23:30 <pikhq> ehird: Talk to me again in a few hundred years and maybe I will. :P
01:23:47 <ais523> ehird: I hardly ever buy anything but food
01:24:06 <ehird> ais523: Become a breatharian; you won't have to eat food.*
01:24:09 <ehird> *You might die though.
01:24:16 <ais523> I'm the sort of person who effectively tries to encourage a recession
01:24:26 <ehird> I'm sure the economy just loves you.
01:24:33 <ehird> (But if you're actively trying for that, err, why?)
01:24:40 <ehird> (Apart from, y'know, being a discordian.)
01:24:46 <pikhq> What, by spending more money for fewer goods?
01:24:59 <pikhq> That's not encouraging a recession, that's simulating one, buddy.
01:25:08 <pikhq> And just simulating it for yourself.
01:25:12 <ehird> Simulated recession: just add water
01:25:19 <ais523> pikhq: by not buying anything unless I actually want it
01:25:24 <ais523> I'm surprised how many people seem to break that rule
01:25:30 <ais523> and just shop for no apparent reason
01:25:37 <ehird> Nobody sane does that.
01:25:40 <pikhq> ais523: Sure. And you then waste money by spending more for less.
01:25:41 <ehird> maybe you're talking to too many idiots
01:25:53 <pikhq> ehird: He's talking to too many USians.
01:26:01 <ehird> is there a difference :)
01:26:20 <pikhq> Yes, many Americans spend for the sake of spending.
01:26:25 <pikhq> Explains quite a bit.
01:26:30 <ais523> also, when it comes to things that are for fun, rather than actually needed (such as meals in restaurants), I don't enjoy them if I think they're too expensive
01:26:32 <ehird> Idiots do that too
01:26:40 <ais523> I suppose it's sort of an economic equilibrium thing
01:26:47 <pikhq> ais523: Then why are you enjoying your computer?
01:26:53 <ais523> pay more for something if I think it's underpriced (I've been known to refuse discounts in shops before)
01:26:54 <pikhq> You spent too much.
01:26:55 <ehird> ais523: i'd class that under psychological issues...
01:27:00 <ehird> money does exist to be spent, you know
01:27:02 <ais523> and not buy at all if I think it's overpriced
01:27:14 <pikhq> ... You pay more if you think it's underpriced.
01:27:16 <ehird> unless you just like looking at bank accounts sitting at a constant figure
01:27:18 <ais523> and no, money just exists as a sort of scorecard as how well people are doing at capitalism
01:27:22 <pikhq> You, sir, fail at rational thinking.
01:27:33 <ais523> pikhq: why can't I pay more?
01:27:39 <ehird> ais523: so you think you should work your ass off for years, and just buy the bare minimum of food
01:27:50 <ais523> why is it me who's failing at rational thinking?
01:27:54 <ehird> ais523: if everyone applied your logic, the whole world would be full of deadbeats.
01:28:05 <ehird> because why earn more money if your life will be exactly the same but with more effort?
01:28:08 <pikhq> Wasting money is using this tool poorly.
01:28:08 <ais523> back when bartering was around, people paid what they thought things were worth
01:28:25 <ehird> ais523: that's totally not how bartering works psychologically at all, imo
01:28:28 <ais523> I dislike the need to earn money at all
01:28:36 <ehird> ais523: OK; have fun with your communist society.
01:28:39 <pikhq> No, they paid what they could convince the other party to take.
01:28:47 <pikhq> You fail at economics, too.
01:28:54 <ehird> I'll assume you hate all meritocracies, then, ais523; after all, capitalism is an emulation of a meritocracy.
01:29:02 <ais523> ehird: communism doesn't work because there are people who are too selfish around
01:29:11 <ais523> IME, the people who work harder earn less money
01:29:14 <ehird> ais523: So you don't want anybody to have to earn money, and you don't want communism.
01:29:16 <pikhq> ais523: The same is true of all economic systems.
01:29:21 <pikhq> And forms of government.
01:29:26 <ehird> I'm wondering what, precisely, you'd prefer.
01:29:34 <ais523> ehird: oh, I can be aware that no system at all works
01:29:45 <pikhq> ehird: Actually, I'm just wondering what, exactly, he's thinking.
01:29:49 <GregorR> ...........................
01:29:53 <ehird> pikhq: "These drugs are great."
01:30:02 <ais523> ehird: I don't take drugs, I dislike all forms of mind control
01:30:05 <ehird> <ais523> I don't do drugs
01:30:13 <ais523> alcohol is, I suspect, one of them
01:30:18 <GregorR> There are topics you should always try to avoid. They are politics, economics, religion and programming languages. LEARN THE RULES.
01:30:30 <ehird> ais523: If you hate every form of mind control...
01:30:33 <ehird> I assume you don't eat food.
01:30:38 <ais523> pretty much the strongest 'drug'/addictive substance I take is caffeine, and even then only in chocolate, and I'm annoyed about that
01:30:41 <pikhq> GregorR: So, the 4 most important things in life.
01:30:42 <ehird> Or ever cause your sleep patterns to fall out.
01:30:47 <ehird> Oh, wait, you mention those regularly.
01:30:52 <ehird> (The latter, I mean.)
01:30:54 <ais523> ehird: that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing!
01:30:55 <ehird> (Well, the former too.)
01:31:04 <ehird> ais523: You have a choice! Stop eating; drinking.
01:31:05 <pikhq> ais523: Your behavior is highly irrational.
01:31:28 <pikhq> More so than that of people who spend for the sake of spending -- which is amazing.
01:31:46 <ais523> ehird: I dislike death even more than being mind-controlled
01:32:01 <ehird> ais523: You also realise that firing neurons is mind control?
01:32:17 <ais523> no, that's the standard process
01:32:26 <ehird> …by which to control a mind.
01:32:28 <oerjan> stop firing neurons. they deserve job security too!
01:32:41 <ehird> oerjan: neurons shouldn't have a job; they shouldn't have to make money.
01:33:16 <oerjan> that smoothly slithered straight over my head
01:33:40 <ehird> all mimsy were the borogaves
01:33:50 <ehird> (and the nome raths outgrabe)
01:34:04 <ais523> ehird: are you misquoting Jabberwocky deliberately to annoy me?
01:34:13 <ehird> ais523: far too many things annoy you.
01:34:16 <ehird> but no, I just have a bad memory.
01:34:27 <oerjan> i'm not sure how easy it is to fire neutrons, actually, they are electrically neutral after all. well, if you don't need them to go in a particular direction...
01:35:16 <pikhq> oerjan: You merely need a source of radiation.
01:35:33 <oerjan> pikhq: but you cannot steer them
01:35:54 <ais523> the inside of neurons isn't electrically neutral
01:36:03 <ais523> they move around ions in order to do their signalling
01:36:16 <ais523> anyway, we'd better change the subject; I worry that I'm starting to sound like zzo38
01:36:17 <pikhq> oerjan: They may be aimed, though.
01:36:27 * oerjan swats ais523 to get his reading comprehension working -----###
01:36:29 <ehird> I don't think you are
01:36:34 <ais523> and zzo38 is great, but one is enough for the world
01:36:42 <ehird> zzo38 hurts my head
01:36:42 <pikhq> No, you're sounding less intelligent. :P
01:36:59 <ais523> no, you're just disagreeing with me
01:37:07 <oerjan> you could block in some directions, i guess
01:37:14 <pikhq> oerjan: MASSIVELY IRRATIONAL BEHAVIOR
01:37:25 <ehird> ais523: 2 vs 1; democracy wins again
01:37:30 <ehird> pretty low voter turnout though.
01:37:36 <ais523> ehird: I don't believe that democracy makes things true
01:37:45 <ais523> in fact, I suspect hardly anyone believes that
01:37:46 <ehird> ais523: things such as "X is President"?
01:37:54 <ais523> ehird: not even that, sometimes
01:38:07 <ehird> actually, prediction markets and other hiveminds have shown to be quite accurate
01:38:11 <ais523> besides, I meant voting doesn't change the current state of reality
01:38:14 <oerjan> i'll bring it up to 2 vs. 2 by noting that my laptop only has 448 MB RAM
01:38:16 <ais523> I agree that it can be good at predicting
01:38:16 <ehird> very accurate, even
01:38:41 <pikhq> oerjan: And how old is aforementioned laptop, and did you spend far too much money for it even though you could spend less to get more?
01:38:44 <ais523> but voting something to be true now doesn't make it true now, although it can sometimes indirectly change the future
01:39:02 <oerjan> 3 years, and i didn't pay for it :)
01:39:17 <ais523> so just slightly older than mine
01:39:44 <ehird> ais523: didn't pay for it = donated.
01:39:48 <ehird> it was someone else's old laptop
01:39:57 <pikhq> oerjan: So, you're not saying much about his "I should spend more for things" point of view. ;)
01:39:59 <ais523> well, I've been using other people's old computers before I got this one
01:40:01 <ehird> if you seriously think 448 MB of RAM is usual 3 years ago...
01:40:11 <ehird> i didn't know they sold such low-end laptops
01:40:21 <ais523> ehird: and remember, 1 GB of RAM was about standard for low-end laptops 2 years ago
01:40:33 <ais523> I know that you don't pay enough attention to the low-end to know it exists, but it does
01:40:33 <ehird> ais523: only very low end ones
01:40:42 <ehird> most people put in the extra £30 to have a system that isn't cripplingly useless
01:40:54 <ais523> ehird: I have a system that isn't cripplingly useless
01:40:55 <pikhq> ehird: 448MB of RAM? Man. I had a 10 year old system with more than that.
01:40:57 <ehird> i bought this computer with 1GB of RAM in 2006; it's consumer level; and I regretted it
01:41:09 <ehird> i spent £20 to have it at 2.5GB of RAM dec 08
01:41:13 <ehird> and it's far, far better
01:41:20 <ehird> even low-end tasks
01:41:20 <ais523> I'm shocked that even makes a difference
01:41:25 <ehird> ais523: it makes a huge difference
01:41:34 <ehird> hard drives are cripplingly slow
01:41:42 <pikhq> Modern kernels use RAM for a cache.
01:41:46 <ais523> I hardly ever go into swap, though
01:42:00 <ais523> and most of the programs I use will be loaded close to startup
01:42:04 <pikhq> Hardly ever? Implies you don't have much caching going.
01:42:04 <ais523> or else are programming language interpreters
01:42:08 <ais523> or else are programs I just wrote
01:42:13 <ehird> ais523: i don't think you realise how strange your OS usage is
01:42:17 <ais523> only the second could be sensibly cached
01:42:28 <ehird> nobody uses the low-resource usage linux. nobody is conservative with their apps, preferring terminal apps.
01:42:36 <ehird> (I mean "nobody" in a statistical sense)
01:42:42 <ais523> ehird: I know it isn't a common pattern; but why are you criticising me for picking a laptop that suits the way I use a laptop?
01:42:50 <pikhq> ehird: Well, I prefer terminal apps, but that's because I have odd tastes in UI.
01:42:55 <ehird> I'm criticizing you for saying that higher-end things are mostly useless.
01:43:18 <ehird> an average LOW-END workload would be slow and painful on your machine
01:43:51 <pikhq> I do DVD encodes rather often, for example.
01:43:53 <pikhq> Also, I run Gentoo.
01:44:03 <ais523> this laptop doesn't even have DVD codecs installed
01:44:15 <ehird> ais523: you keep proving the point...
01:44:26 <ais523> after all, what are DVD players for?
01:44:40 <ehird> 01:44 ais523: after all, what are DVD players for?
01:44:44 <ehird> I'm putting it on a shirt.
01:44:52 <ehird> I'm setting up an online store where people can buy this on a shirt.
01:44:52 <ais523> we have a quotedb, if you want to put it in there
01:45:02 <ehird> ais523: I'm fairly sure we don't, actually.
01:45:13 <ehird> Despite the fact that we used to have a link to it in the topic, it doesn't actually exist.
01:45:26 <ehird> That doesn't count; it has Sine too.
01:45:30 <ais523> it was used earlier today; I don't know if you noticed or not
01:45:33 <ais523> and why doesn't it count?
01:45:39 <ehird> Anyway, this is far too mind-boggling for just a quote db.
01:45:41 <ais523> I can't see any way you could claim that hackego's quotedb is not a quotedb
01:45:50 <ehird> It isn't an #esoteric quotedb
01:45:50 <GregorR> Oh, you need an EXCLUSIVE quotedb :P
01:45:57 <ehird> GregorR: Shut up, it's irrelevant
01:45:58 <ais523> it's ours in the sense that we use it
01:46:02 <ehird> This needs a whole business.
01:46:05 <ehird> ais523: "We have a google"
01:46:15 <ehird> "You can use it if you'd like"
01:46:17 <ais523> ehird: slightly weird phrasing I think, but not false
01:46:24 <GregorR> I made a shirt of something a friend said once: "This thing cannot not work, if it works."
01:46:37 <ehird> GregorR: I read that without the not first
01:47:15 <GregorR> Unicode needs hangman characters.
01:49:07 <ehird> I suppose it will have to do:
01:49:15 <ehird> `addquote <ais523> after all, what are DVD players for?
01:49:16 <HackEgo> 42|<ais523> after all, what are DVD players for?
01:49:26 <ehird> ais523: Now, did you actually mean that literally? Speak now or forever hold your pieces.
01:49:51 <ais523> ehird: it's a question
01:49:57 <ais523> how can you mean a question literally
01:50:12 <ehird> ais523: It's open to interpretation like all language.
01:50:17 <ehird> Now what the heck did you actually mean
01:50:42 <pikhq> ais523: I use my computer in lieu of a TV.
01:50:44 <ais523> I mean, if you can already play DVDs, why buy a computer for the purpose?
01:50:56 <ehird> AnMaster: You're meant to be ignoring me.
01:50:57 <pikhq> It's much nicer this way; I don't get ads and it doesn't afraid of anything.
01:51:02 <ais523> pikhq: IME computers aren't within sufficient range of a sofa to manage that
01:51:10 <AnMaster> ehird, took you off on trial a few minutes ago
01:51:12 <ehird> <ais523> TV tuner cards don't exist.
01:51:16 <ehird> <ais523> BitTorrent doesn't exist.
01:51:24 <pikhq> My computer has an HDMI out port...
01:51:27 <ehird> <ais523> Heck, legal download services don't exist.
01:51:27 <ais523> it's too hard to find legal torrents
01:51:32 <pikhq> As do most recent computers.
01:51:43 <ais523> and I don't torrent at all, not even legally, because people would assume I was doing something illegal
01:52:03 <ais523> (or that the person at the other end was doing something illegal; I've seen it argued that leeching is legal for you but illegal for the uploader)
01:52:07 <pikhq> I suppose next you'll tell me you voted BNP or something?
01:52:20 <ais523> no, I strongly disagree with the BNP's policies
01:52:34 <ais523> even ignoring the immigration policy that gets them into so much trouble, the other policies are all awful too
01:52:40 <pikhq> It's like freaking Chewbacca on Endor: IT MAKES NO SENSE! IF CHEWBACCA IS ON ENDOR, YOU MUST ACQUIT!
01:52:46 <ehird> If I'm hearing you right, ais523... you shouldn't do something that is legal if it'll make Other People(TM) think it's illegal?
01:52:49 <ais523> they seem to want to make the UK into a police state
01:52:51 <pikhq> Erm, I mean, cease to be irrational.
01:52:56 <ehird> MY MIND IS MELTING AND I WANT TO DIE ;_;
01:53:11 <ehird> ais523: Anyway, piracy is legal in Sweden. Yarr.
01:53:13 <ais523> ehird: yes, not when the people who give you your internet service have a clause requiring that all use must be legal
01:53:18 <ais523> otherwise they might cut you off by mistake
01:53:21 <pikhq> ehird: Also Spain.
01:53:31 <ehird> Also Portugal. Wait, I said filesharing, not drugs.
02:09:28 <pikhq> @@ @elite @yow @arr
02:09:28 <ehird> WELL SAY THAT TO MY FACE
02:09:29 <lambdabot> LeOnA, i WanT +0 CONF3$z0rz T|-|ing5 +O yOU ... i \/\/4n+ 70 wR4P yoU In 4 5cArL3T rob3 7RI/\/\/\/\3d Wi+h P0|Y\/INyl C|-|l0RIDE ... i Wan7 T0 E/\/\pTY yOur ashtr4yz0rz ...
02:09:43 <ehird> I want to empty your ash tray.
02:10:02 <ehird> pikhq: You should have done it like this:
02:10:05 <ehird> @. elite . yow arr
02:10:06 <lambdabot> i'/\/\ N0+ AN IRaNi4n!! I vo+ED 4 di4nNE FEiN$t3in!!
02:10:15 <ehird> It looks more confusing and is PoInTfReE
02:11:29 <lambdabot> ... i d0n'+ xn0W whY 8uT, zuDden1Y, I \/\/ant +o DIscu55 dE(1iNIn9 I.Q. leVELz wI+H a Blue ri8b0N $eN4T3 $UB-Co/\/\/\/\i7T3e!
02:29:35 * ehird decides to learn Erlang, maybe.
02:30:42 <pikhq> ehird: Some of the nice parallelism constructs of Haskell without the monads?
02:31:57 <ehird> I like learning languages.
02:42:23 <pikhq> You will bring us a.
03:09:49 <Slereah> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
03:09:50 <Slereah> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
03:09:50 <Slereah> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
03:09:50 <Slereah> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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03:10:13 <Slereah> Freenode has strict flood limits
03:10:20 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood_: Hi, Prince.
03:10:49 <pikhq> Looks vaguely like the Prince symbol.
03:11:14 <oerjan> I think that second a is dead.
03:50:52 <Warrigal> Convincing people that this sentence is true is the best thing anyone could do with their time.
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04:43:29 <zzo38> Why did freenode-connect ask my version twice this time?
04:44:36 <zzo38> I changed a few things in PHIRC to object-oriented to allow other protocols to be added using add-in files
04:45:03 <pikhq> Not enough abstraction.
04:45:09 <pikhq> Moar monads! Moar arrows!
04:45:52 <lambdabot> jcreigh says: I've found learning Haskell makes me feel vastly inferior to Haskell coders. ("Oh,", they say, "That's just a fold over the hyper-monad fluxbox list. Here's the one-line replacement
04:46:17 <zzo38> Each protocol class has the following members: $protocol_name start($args) stop($mode) send($cmd) receive($data) idle() process_entry($entry) spacebar() autoanswer($current)
04:48:35 <zzo38> process_entry is used to update the current channel based on what the user types (and can do other things too), spacebar is used if the user pushes space when the command-line is currently blank, autoanswer is used when that configuration option is set, IRC uses it to answer CTRL+A VERSION and stuff like that.
04:48:52 <zzo38> Maybe I can figure out XMPP and make a add-in file for XMPP or for other protocols
04:49:53 <pikhq> oerjan: Y'know, I can no longer look at (most) other languages and see anything interesting in them. I just think "Oh, that? Been meaning to look at that monad."
04:50:07 <zzo38> Basically any one just has to convert IRC-like commands to format to send to the server, and convert things received from the server into IRC-like commands.
04:50:31 <zzo38> Unfortunately I do not understand XMPP.
04:50:39 <pikhq> Or in the case of, say, F#, "Oh, it's Haskell with a worse syntax."
04:50:47 <pikhq> zzo38: It's just a bunch of (absurd) XML.
04:51:53 <zzo38> O, I can see that. I will read it and see if I can understand it enough to make a add-in file to support XMPP
04:52:48 <zzo38> The problem is, I don't know if the XML function in PHP can support partial data to send/receive, but I can try.
04:56:05 <zzo38> O, I can see now. The $is_final parameter can be false for parsing partial XML data.
04:57:35 <pikhq> PHP is not the answer. PHP is the question.
04:58:50 <zzo38> PHP is not the question. PHP is the answer.
04:58:55 <zzo38> No is the question.
04:59:25 <lambdabot> Yes, but will I see the EASTER BUNNY in skintight leather at an IRON
05:00:39 <CESSMASTER> what does that have to do with the airport in ottawa
05:01:31 <oerjan> well, both can only go downhill from here.
05:01:34 <zzo38> Of course, I have also done other things that nobody likes, such as adding a Forth interpreter into MegaZeux.
05:02:44 <zzo38> And what is that message about EASTER BUNNY and IRON MAIDEN and stuff for?
05:03:08 <lambdabot> YOW!! Everybody out of the GENETIC POOL!
05:03:10 <oerjan> random silly quote, i think from Zippy the Pinhead comic
05:04:54 <oerjan> lambdabot: i might already be.
05:05:23 <zzo38> If I make XMPP, is there a server I can make tests of the client with?
05:08:06 <zzo38> XMPP seems a bit complicated, how many RFCs do I have to support?
05:08:22 <Slereah> As a furry, I desire to see this leather easter bunny
05:08:35 <Slereah> http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/23657/2094388230103413284S425x425Q85.jpg
05:10:23 <zzo38> Which other simpler internet chat protocols are there that I might want to try to implement sooner?
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05:45:48 * Warrigal suddenly loses his distaste for relative clauses of the form "which <noun> <predicate>".
05:46:27 <Warrigal> (Where "which" implies "this" or "that", not "its".)
05:47:18 <Warrigal> The cat ate the fish, despite which event I continued putting fish food in the fish bowl anyway.
05:47:42 <Warrigal> The cat might eat the fish, in which case I will continue putting fish food in the fish bowl anyway.
05:51:12 <oerjan> i don't see any clauses of the form "which <noun> <predicate>" up there
05:52:23 <oerjan> maybe you mean "<preposition> which <noun> <predicate>"?
05:52:54 <oerjan> those are "<preposition> which <noun> <pronoun> <predicate>"
05:54:12 <Warrigal> "<preposition> which <noun> <independent clause>", even.
05:54:47 <Warrigal> Okay, so those are fine, at least. Can you think of a reason for using an actual "which <noun> <predicate>", then?
05:54:58 <Warrigal> I guess here's one: "He rode his bike, which fact I hate."
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05:55:34 <Warrigal> This, then: "He rode his bike, which fact is hated by me."
05:55:37 <oerjan> that's "which <noun> <independent clause>" in your words
05:56:29 <Warrigal> A more natural example: "My maternal grandfather is dead, which fact saddens me greatly."
05:57:18 <oerjan> certainly sounds victorian :D
06:00:55 <Warrigal> "My quantum teleportation reserve has run out, which fact means I'll have to exchange more methanol for it."
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07:51:20 <coppro> so, I discovered today that due to a provincial program, I can borrow from the local University library without having to purchase a separate membership :)
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11:40:28 <ehird> 03:50 pikhq: Or in the case of, say, F#, "Oh, it's Haskell with a worse syntax."
11:40:47 <ehird> and OCaml is just Haskell without laziness and with a different syntax.
11:40:54 <ehird> s/worse syntax/.NET shit/ in the F# line
11:41:51 <ehird> 04:47 Warrigal: The cat ate the fish, despite which event I continued putting fish food in the fish bowl anyway.
11:42:03 <ehird> The cat ate the fish; despite this event I continued putting fish food in the fish bowl anyway.
12:39:48 <ehird> “Maverick Personal Trainer
12:39:48 <ehird> Locks Himself in His Studio
12:39:49 <ehird> for 7 Months… and Creates
12:39:51 <ehird> the World’s First Robot
12:39:53 <ehird> that Automatically Makes
12:39:55 <ehird> Fat Cells Self-Destruct!
12:39:57 <ehird> ↑ I love one-page spam sites.
12:47:22 <ehird> I'm imagining an anthropomorphic, shiny metal robot staring really hard at your fat cells with its laser eyes.
12:58:47 <Ilari> Only if they are programmed to... :-)
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14:42:02 <ehird> "Don't quote me on this, but IIRC, AMD's Sempron processors were faulty Athlon 64s with a few features turned off, and some of the Phenom tri-core processors are quad-cores with a faulty core disabled."
14:42:08 <ehird> (I'm quoting them on that, but)
14:42:14 <ehird> AnMaster: pikhq: YOU HAVE FAULTY PROCESSORS
14:43:05 <ehird> reddit, so yes. :P
14:43:10 <ehird> AnMaster: i've heard it elsewhere though, iirc
14:43:16 <ehird> not about the tri-cores, but it seems logical
14:43:22 <ehird> after all, x3 vs x4 is an odd product line distinction
14:43:30 <ehird> i'd expect x3 vs x6 or x2 vs x4
14:43:40 <AnMaster> ehird, well, iirc intel have done the same. But my sempron is older than even dual core athlon64s
14:43:52 <ehird> "AMD's Sempron processors were faulty Athlon 64s with a few features turned off"
14:43:54 <AnMaster> as in, they weren't even announced back then
14:43:55 <ehird> so not core-related for them
14:44:21 <ehird> AnMaster: i've never heard intel doing it, but both intel and amd just underclock processors that don't run as well at the higher ghz
14:44:23 <AnMaster> ehird, and I think it possibly varied. As far as I know the only major difference is much less cache
14:44:27 <ehird> e.g. a 3.06ghz processor that dies might run at 2.5ghz
14:44:32 <ehird> and so it drops down a segment
14:45:48 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway, a reliable source for Sempron 3300+ (Palermo), /proc/cpuinfo says cpu family: 15, model: 44, stepping: 2
14:46:07 <ehird> obviously they'd tweak those or whatever
15:02:53 <fizzie> I think the tri-core thing has been officially announced somewhere too, and it's a reasonably sensible way to increase yield. Playstation 3 has that 7-"SPU" Cell, while the chip as designed would have 8 of those units, they just disable one.
15:03:15 <fizzie> Don't know anything about Sempron, though.
15:03:35 <ehird> fizzie: why would they disable a cell if it's not defective?
15:03:41 <ehird> it's the same cost, after all, and it's not like it's a retail component
15:04:07 <fizzie> It's a console; they can't really ship 7- and 8-core variants of it.
15:04:43 <ehird> so why not leave all of 'em on
15:05:01 <fizzie> Because then they'd have to throw away all the processors where only 7 of the 8 units work?
15:05:23 <ehird> "Playstation 3 has that 7-"SPU" Cell, while the chip as designed would have 8 of those units, they just disable one." didn't imply any being defective; context did but it was still a bit vague
15:05:48 <fizzie> The point was on that "increase yield" part, really.
15:05:58 <fizzie> I guess I left a bit too much implicit there, but anyway.
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15:06:59 <fizzie> At least AMD can sell the working ones as Phenom X4's, which makes more common-sense.
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15:49:29 * ehird notes that the Finder's connect-to-server dialog could do with a dropdown of available connection protocols instead of an opaque text field.
15:50:14 <ehird> Solution: Enter foo://bar and you'll get;
15:50:31 <ehird> "URLs should begin with afp://, at://, file://, ftp://, http://, https://, nfs://, smb://, cifs:// or vnc://."
15:50:42 <ehird> (I say "solution", I mean "kludge".)
15:51:02 <ehird> I wonder if that's extensible. It'd be nice to add scp://, rsync:// and the like.
15:51:41 <ehird> Well, I know ExpanDrive does something like that and uses MacFUSE.
15:51:43 <nooga> if i made simple grid system, would you join?
15:51:47 <ehird> I wonder if it adds a protocol, though.
15:51:50 <ehird> nooga: A simple what now?
15:52:09 <nooga> parallel computing contraption
15:52:24 <ehird> nooga: what's wrong with @home?
15:52:53 <ehird> I probably wouldn't because I don't like my cooling system to be running full-speed all the time.
15:53:32 <ehird> damn, ExpanDrive uses a separate UI for connecting to the servers
15:56:46 <fizzie> It's been asked in the ADC Q&A thing; as long as that answer is still accurate (not sure if it is) it's not possibel: http://developer.apple.com/qa/qa2004/qa1387.html
16:00:30 <ehird> fizzie: "and uses that to load and run the appropriate URLMount plug-in. The structure of a URLMount plug-in is not publicly documented (r. 3502170)."
16:00:36 <ehird> So you can do it, it just might break and Apple will be sad.
16:00:40 <ehird> Which applies to an awful lot of things…
16:01:17 <fizzie> Well, yes. The browsing part is more impossible.
16:01:35 <fizzie> Don't you just love the rdar:// URLs there?
16:01:51 <ehird> rdar:// URLs are funny.
16:01:55 <ehird> Such a niche form of helpfulness.
16:02:12 <ehird> fizzie: I'm sure you could hack something into /Network
16:02:35 <ehird> [ehird:/Network] % sudo touch butt
16:02:36 <ehird> [ehird:/Network] % ls
16:02:40 <ehird> Not shown in Finder, it just scans, but...
16:03:02 <ehird> Anyway, it should be possible, dammit. :P
16:03:27 <ehird> Though, really, manually entering a protocol code?
16:03:32 <ehird> What's up with that dialog, Apple?
16:17:37 <ehird> wow, someone who uses svn by using an sftp drive pointed to a working directory on the folder that the master copy is on
16:17:48 <ehird> i hereby give them the Totally Missing the Point Award 2008
16:17:56 <ehird> (it was in 2008 so there)
16:20:07 <ehird> from the same post
16:20:08 <ehird> I am in a work environment where all webdevelopment is on a shared ubuntu
16:20:09 <ehird> box that most people access through smb (one single user, for the most part)
16:20:10 <ehird> without any real problems.
16:20:12 <ehird> so they have one working directory
16:20:15 <ehird> on a remote server
16:20:20 <ehird> and all connect to it to edit
16:20:26 <ehird> on the same server as the master copy
16:20:33 <ehird> THESE PEOPLE ARE RETARDED
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16:29:06 <nooga> just noticed MacFUSE filesystem project template in my xcode
16:29:10 <nooga> wonder what's that
16:29:52 <ehird> nooga: MacFUSE lets you make custom filesystems stuff in userspace.
16:30:04 <ehird> So you could, e.g.
16:30:20 <ehird> have a wikipedia filesystem that has categories as folders with symlinks to the articles
16:30:30 <ehird> and be able to mount it and modify it and shit without being root
16:31:42 <ehird> nooga: It's, predictably, a port of FUSE, which is for Linux.
16:38:58 * pikhq notes that the FUSE API is rather well-supported these days
16:39:21 <pikhq> Hell, even Hurd supports it -- and Hurd doesn't support anything!
16:39:30 <ehird> Hurd supports your mom.
16:40:20 <GregorR-L> ... the FUSE API is practically a port of the entire concept behind the Hurd to Linux :P
16:40:40 <GregorR-L> The fact that the Hurd supports it is probably due to one 15-line C file.
16:40:45 <ehird> GregorR-L: No, it mercifully omits the fucked up microkernel/daemon and user system. :P
16:41:01 <nooga> hurd was a good idea
16:41:03 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Actually, 50 line header.
16:41:12 <ehird> Microkernels suck.
16:41:26 <nooga> minix 3 might be cool
16:41:31 <ehird> But I don't like her, GregorR-L.
16:41:31 <pikhq> ehird: You're running on one.
16:41:47 <ehird> pikhq: Ahem... OS X's underlying system is severely fucked up enough not to class as much of anything.
16:42:00 <ehird> It's the perfect argument against incest.
16:42:08 <ehird> (Steve Jobs did start NeXT, after all…)
16:42:23 <GregorR-L> OS X has Mach, which you'd THINK would support a microkernel, but instead supports one big fat macrokernel :P
16:42:38 <nooga> when i used linux i had a bit of knowledge how this system works under the hood
16:42:58 <ehird> nooga: Step 1. Get employed by Apple.
16:42:59 <nooga> i don't know anything
16:43:06 <ehird> Step 2. Stop using OS X because the underpinnings are so horrific.
16:43:35 <pikhq> Horrific is the wrong word.
16:43:57 <pikhq> (WHY IS THERE XML IN MY INIT‽ WHY‽)
16:44:12 <ehird> pikhq: Yeah, plist.
16:44:14 <GregorR-L> <XML> in ur init, initin ur system </XML>
16:44:16 <ehird> Plists used to use a plaintext format.
16:44:21 <ehird> It's stupid that they use XML now, but it's abstracted away.
16:44:28 <ehird> (The plaintext format was like JSON.)
16:44:35 <nooga> but i use plists that are visible as xml
16:44:48 <pikhq> Needs more plain text.
16:44:50 <ehird> GregorR-L: Indeed; they're not *sane* XML.
16:44:55 <ehird> Instead of <foo bar="baz">...</foo>, it's
16:45:11 <ehird> <dict><key>bar</key><string>baz</string></dict>
16:45:28 <ehird> It was a monumental screwup, changing to XML, but oh well
16:45:29 <ehird> pikhq: Anyway, by the time you get to the .framework level in OS X, things start to level out sanely.
16:45:35 <ehird> Underneath that... Not so much.
16:46:31 <ehird> pikhq: Yes, the low-level frameworks are a bit freaky.
16:46:35 <ehird> But the ones you actually deal with? Yum.
16:46:38 <ehird> I'll have me some more of that.
16:46:48 <ehird> …which contributes to the top-level system being sane.
16:47:35 <pikhq> Making the thing as a whole a lot better than, say, Windows NT.
16:47:45 <ehird> I think Windows NT might be inverted.
16:47:48 <pikhq> You got userspace code in my kernel! You got kernel code in my userspace!
16:47:52 <ehird> I haven't heard much about the underlying NT kernel being insane.
16:48:02 <ehird> Just everything above it, which pokes its tendrils downwards into the kernel, molesting it.
16:48:08 <pikhq> There's only a few hacks in the NT kernel.
16:48:30 <pikhq> And that's because "YAY! GUI IN KERNEL!"
16:48:37 <ehird> Wait, the GUI is in the KERNEL?
16:48:53 <pikhq> Yes, but not for design reasons.
16:49:06 <pikhq> It's for "performance" reasons.
16:49:26 <ehird> ...I mean, I'm a huge proponent of operating system-provided garbage collector, GUI, and so on - huge - but… if you're gonna have a kernel (I suggest you don't…)… putting a fucking GUI in it?!
16:51:17 <ehird> [["Concepts" removed from C++0x]]
16:51:20 <ehird> I hope they removed the concept of existing.
16:52:12 <pikhq> What did you know of "Concepts" in C++0x?
16:52:37 <pikhq> And are you aware that they ought to be called "Typeclasses"?
16:53:01 <ehird> What I said was a joke, and I don't think they were that.
16:53:03 <ehird> They're implicit typeclasses.
16:53:14 <ehird> They're more like OCaml's object type.
16:53:44 <pikhq> Oh, thought they were explicit typeclasses.
16:53:58 <ehird> pikhq: It's just a constraint that a type must have some given methods.
16:54:24 <pikhq> Needs more typeclasses.
16:54:44 <ehird> It's actually useful.
16:54:57 <ehird> Methinks you're going a bit heavy on the Haskell zealotry :P
16:55:02 <ehird> I mean, it makes sense, pikhq
16:55:16 <ehird> type MyObject = { meth1 :: ..., meth2 :: ... }
16:55:19 <ehird> which is compatible with
16:55:33 <ehird> type MyObjectTwoElectricBoogaloo = { meth1 :: ..., meth2 :: ..., meth3 :: ... }
16:55:35 <ehird> then you can infer e.g.
16:55:42 <ehird> foo x = x>>butt + x>>butt2
16:55:55 <ehird> foo :: (Num a) => { butt :: a, butt2 :: a } -> a
16:56:04 <pikhq> I was intentionally going a bit heavy on the Haskell zealotry.
16:57:36 <ehird> "How will C++0x programming and design look like without Concepts? Brace yourself for many more years of indecipherable template compilation errors. Additionally, type traits will become a hot commodity once again. Presently, type traits are one of the very few proven techniques for enforcing compile-time constraints on templates. Pedagogically, C++ will be a tad easier to teach."
16:57:42 <ehird> C++0x just got even less appealing!
16:58:00 <ehird> No way it'll be out in '0x.
16:58:02 <pikhq> Man, that was one of the primary good things *about* C++1x.
16:58:12 <ehird> There's no more naughties to go, heh.
16:58:20 <pikhq> It's like, one of the few features C++ always needed.
16:58:57 <pikhq> Well, I mean, if you're going with template polymorphism, you might as well make it proper polymorphism.
16:59:13 <ehird> Concepts are the most general way of doing the basic idea.
17:00:14 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit).
17:02:01 <ehird> I should zap my PRAM just for the fake nostalgia.
17:02:26 * ehird waits for someone to ask what zapping PRAM is.
17:02:37 <pikhq> What's even more annoying: concepts were the only major C++0x feature that were completely implemented.
17:02:39 <ehird> Why that's easy; it's the solution to ALL Mac woes!
17:02:57 <ehird> Got a problem? Just zap your PRAM! Apple have truly simplified the problem-solving cycle.
17:03:36 <pikhq> GCC 4.4 has concepts.
17:03:50 <pikhq> I guess GCC will just have to make that a GNUism.
17:20:03 <ehird> I have so many windows open that Exposé is becoming quite impractical.
17:20:08 <ehird> I never close things...
17:30:44 <ehird> GregorR-L: that's like doing manual memory deallocation.
17:30:54 <ehird> i have to figure out what i don't need, go into that window, close it, etc.
17:31:00 <ehird> i'd much rather have a window garbage collector.
17:31:04 <GregorR-L> I want a GC for my window manager.
17:31:23 <ehird> except instead of destroying the windows it puts them out of the way somewhere, i'm not sure i'd like it to start randomly closing things :D
17:32:16 <ehird> GregorR-L: with all the time you idled before saying 'Might I recommend ..." your IRC client might have quit due to the GC
17:32:18 <ehird> so on second thoughts
17:32:20 <ehird> i fully support this idea!
17:32:51 <ehird> i'm sorry GregorR-L
17:32:54 <ehird> i'm just relaying what YOUR MOM said
17:32:57 <ehird> THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!
17:33:06 <ehird> *2x Combo! Extra points!*
17:33:21 <ehird> GregorR-L: Looks like there's something wrong with your face...
17:33:26 <ehird> ...oh wait, it ALWAYS looks that bad!
17:33:28 <GregorR-L> I don't think I know any sadder smileys :P
17:33:47 <ehird> GregorR-L: That's what SHE said!
17:43:01 <GregorR-L> I'm glad mplayer supports caching when reading from the filesystem.
17:43:52 <ehird> GregorR-L: You know that every player ever does that/
17:44:28 <pikhq> I'm glad that mplayer supports smb directly.
17:45:38 <GregorR-L> ehird: Do they? I wouldn't know where to look in a GUI *shrugs*
17:45:50 <ehird> GregorR-L: What does that second sentence mean?
17:46:12 <GregorR-L> It means that if I wanted to enable caching of files on the "local" filesystem in a GUI, I wouldn't know where to look.
17:46:28 <GregorR-L> Preferences->Advanced->Ultra-advanced->Stuff most people shouldn't ever touch->Cache stuff that shouldn't need to be cached
17:47:01 <pikhq> Y'know that most filesystems directly support caching, right?
17:47:12 <GregorR-L> (Also, s/cache/buffer/ for most players *shrugs*)
17:47:41 <pikhq> I presume you mean buffering -- which is done by default on modern OSes and most players do by default anyways.
17:47:50 <ehird> Yeah, GregorR-L... it's automatic.
17:47:53 <pikhq> There's many things to like about mplayer -- that's not one of them. :P
17:48:13 <ehird> If you mean "can skip backwards without re-reading" or something, which fits "caching" slightly better, then... all players do that, too.
17:50:39 <ehird> GregorR-L: Anyway, mplayer isn't necessarily command line. Last I checked it had a rather appealing, simple GTK GUI.
17:50:57 <ehird> Although it separated the controls from the video window for some inexplicable reason.
17:51:07 <ehird> (I mean, seriously; what's the point of that?)
17:51:34 <ehird> http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/_media/media/gmplayer.png?cache=cache&w=900&h=531 ;; okay, WTF is up with that file picker?
17:51:39 <ehird> I take it back; it sucks.
17:52:25 <GregorR-L> Perhaps because it's not buffering? Seems probable!
17:52:40 <GregorR-L> (Or, the buffer is ludicrously small)
17:52:53 <ehird> pikhq: Can you inform GregorR-L that he thinks that one of the most popular, polished Linux media players doesn't buffer?
17:52:57 <ehird> Or doesn't buffer enough?
17:53:08 <GregorR-L> Not buffering FROM THE LOCAL FILESYSTEM
17:53:23 <pikhq> ehird: Well, it is going over sshfs. He may have done a silly 8G buffer or some such. :P
17:53:33 <ehird> 8G is a weird smiley.
17:53:52 <ehird> Unhappy glasses-man. He's unhappy because part of his mouth disappeared.
17:53:52 <GregorR-L> Good lawd, it should not be skipping like this, OK. Maybe it's buffering 1K, but it's not usefully buffering.
17:54:11 <GregorR-L> Maybe because it would be ridiculous to buffer when as far as you know it's a local file. Not that I have a clue how to convince it otherwise.
17:54:37 <pikhq> ... Ridiculous to buffer on a local file? Really?
17:54:54 <pikhq> Hard drives are fecking slow.
17:54:59 <GregorR-L> Even the world's slowest, most unreliable hard disk is faster than a bloody MP3.
17:55:21 * pikhq brings out the original
17:55:45 <ehird> GregorR-L: QuickTime certainly buffers local files, at least.
17:56:05 <ehird> I can tell because the progress bar is blank for a split second before it fills in when you open a track.
17:56:08 <pikhq> As does mplayer; defaults to a 1MB buffer, IIRC.
17:56:13 <ehird> Blankness means unloaded, filled means loaded for networked files.
17:56:22 <ehird> So it's doing the same for local files, too.
18:20:53 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:58:21 * SimonRC listens to apollo (live broadcast): http://wechoosethemoon.org/
19:00:51 <GregorR-L> Man, listen to all that sound in space.
19:01:10 <SimonRC> turn the "background audio" down as far as it will go
19:08:46 <ehird> yeah, what GregorR-L said about noise :D
19:09:05 <ehird> SimonRC: this isn't looking very live
19:09:33 <SimonRC> well, exactly 40 years late
19:09:45 <ehird> oh it's the actual apollo broadcasty thing?
19:10:00 <SimonRC> you missed re-gaining contact, but a burn is about to start
19:10:07 <ehird> unfortunately i can't hear properly
19:10:33 <ehird> also, it looks like twitter on the right hand side
19:10:38 <ehird> i want to kill whoever made it look like tw—
19:10:40 <ehird> oh god it's twitter
19:10:44 <ehird> GregorR-L: no, it's the radio distortion
19:11:37 <SimonRC> I don't know how anyone understands it
19:11:56 <ehird> SimonRC: very good pattern recognition facilities?
19:12:02 <ehird> I can't listen to the radio, even on good quality
19:12:21 <ehird> I think I need to see the mouth moving to understand fast speech
19:12:22 <SimonRC> fiddle with your audio ballence settings
19:13:46 <ehird> ↑ what was just said
19:14:04 <SimonRC> oops, that made my sound go away
19:14:18 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
19:14:40 <ehird> GregorR-L: ha, I found a link to extra-www on the interwebs
19:14:58 <ehird> Hey, the audio stream got clearer.
19:15:04 <ehird> SimonRC: http://www.www.extra-www.org/
19:15:20 <SimonRC> fuck I did just kill my sound
19:15:34 <ehird> I am a proud supporter.* (note: * support is determined by inventing the ranking system rather than, say, putting it into place)
19:16:26 * GregorR-L actually does the no-www thing on all his sites :P
19:16:34 <GregorR-L> Except for extra-www.org of course.
19:17:49 <GregorR-L> http://www.yourwebsitevalue.com/details/e/x/t/extra-www_org.html // extra-www.org is worth $21 wooh :P
19:19:26 <ehird> Apparently, ted.com is just worth $711,567; whereas livejournal is worth $55,934,565.
19:19:31 <SimonRC> I think I missed the start of the burn
19:19:31 <ehird> Methinks ted.com is rather more... worthful.
19:19:54 <ehird> GregorR-L: yourwebsitevalue.com is worth $50,481, apparently.
19:20:15 <GregorR-L> It would be funny to offer to buy it at that price, referencing ... itself :P
19:20:38 <GregorR-L> "I'm readin' you loud and scratchy" lawl
19:20:39 <ehird> The separation animation when you go to wechoosethemoon.org is a bit too... easy.
19:20:57 <ehird> Stretch...and...pfft. We're separated in a few seconds.
19:21:06 <ehird> I got lock on a great hadie, point two miles/
19:21:15 <SimonRC> guesses requested for what my sound demon is called
19:21:26 <ehird> SimonRC: alsa. oss.
19:21:38 <ehird> one of the millions of others
19:22:03 <ehird> Houston we have a fear schematic copy over.
19:22:23 <ehird> Four zero, zero zero, zero zero, zero zero SPACECRAFT SPACECRAFT
19:22:36 <ehird> A zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero SPACECRAFT SPACECRAFT
19:23:26 <ehird> What's that about slaughterhouse five in the bottomright?
19:23:54 <GregorR-L> ehird: It was listing the most popular books at that time.
19:24:00 <GregorR-L> Just trying to get you in the spirit of 1969
19:24:03 <ehird> How utterly pointless. :P
19:24:28 <GregorR-L> So's your face though, so don't blame it *shrugs*
19:24:36 <ehird> GregorR-L: you know, I think the pulsating vector graphic below the shoutcast radio sign in flashy letters, the high-resolution 3d graphics, and just about everything else about the site...
19:24:39 -!- fungebob has joined.
19:24:41 <ehird> kinda dispels any 1969 illusions :D
19:24:48 <ehird> fungebob: I assume you like Funge.
19:25:01 <ehird> "We got some unexplained road activity."
19:25:06 <ehird> I didn't know there were roads in space!
19:25:15 <ehird> fungebob: I'm practically psychic. You been here before?
19:25:33 <GregorR-L> Approximately all the fekking time :P
19:25:59 <fungebob> in bursts, about every other year
19:26:06 <ehird> Well me has a short memory.
19:26:21 <ehird> (The only-being-here-since-2007 might have something to do with it too.)
19:26:21 <pikhq> It's depressing that, 40 years after man walked on the moon, we are currently incapable of sending a man to the moon.
19:26:24 <ehird> But true, I forget about the idlers.
19:26:28 <ehird> They don't really exist.
19:26:37 <ehird> pikhq: Incapable? No, there's just not a budget allocated to it.
19:26:41 <fungebob> yeah. im something of a chronic idler.
19:27:16 <GregorR-L> As it turns out, at this point going to the moon would be more "hey look how cool we are" than "we're accomplishing some scientific knowledge", which is pointless :P
19:27:35 <pikhq> GregorR-L: I don't want us to merely go to the moon.
19:27:48 <pikhq> I want the nation of Luna.
19:27:50 <GregorR-L> <pikhq> I want us to ... BLOW UP THE MOON! MUAHAHAHAHA
19:27:57 <ehird> pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless.
19:28:05 <ehird> Atmosphere. Gravity. Resources.
19:28:21 <GregorR-L> Also, if the Earth went kapoot, the moon would be pretty screwed regardless.
19:28:24 <ehird> It would be the most pointless thing the human race could possibly do apart from watching NASCAR.
19:28:35 <pikhq> ehird: I also want practical fusion.
19:28:42 <ehird> pikhq: Best served chilled, eh?
19:28:44 <fungebob> ehird: consider low-gravity porn
19:28:51 <pikhq> Which would make man on the moon quite reasonable.
19:28:53 <ehird> fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced.
19:29:03 <pikhq> (the moon has a decent amount of Hydrogen-3)
19:29:18 <GregorR-L> `addquote <ehird> pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. <fungebob> ehird: consider low-gravity porn <ehird> fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced.
19:29:19 <HackEgo> 43|<ehird> pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. <fungebob> ehird: consider low-gravity porn <ehird> fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced.
19:29:23 <ehird> pikhq: All we need is "Instant Atmosphere, Just Add Planet" and "Gravitron Generator 3000 Ultra+ Extra"
19:29:47 <ehird> GregorR-L: Low gravity porn is essentially the progenitor of all man's advancement.
19:30:14 <pikhq> Who needs high gravity, and you can have a completely sealed-in nation with oxygen.
19:30:20 <pikhq> It would just suck if it got into war with anyone.
19:30:54 <ehird> What about a... Jupitan (?!) colony?
19:30:54 <pikhq> (though, there was this trick you could do with launching large amounts of mass into the nearby gravity well...)
19:30:59 <ehird> That would be insanely hard and impractical to do.
19:31:14 <ehird> We could go surfing on the great red spot, except we couldn't.
19:31:20 <pikhq> Let's start by getting man in the general vicinity of Jupiter.
19:31:21 <ehird> Slight issue of impossibility there
19:31:29 <GregorR-L> pikhq: We're within a solar system ;)
19:31:31 <ehird> pikhq: Once we're there we might as well get set up :-P
19:31:37 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makemake_(dwarf_planet)
19:31:39 <ehird> Let's go to Makemake.
19:31:43 <ehird> I haven't heard of it before and ist name is cute.
19:31:47 <pikhq> ehird: The moons would be a bit more practical for settlement.
19:32:02 <ehird> pikhq: Mars would be the most practical, I think
19:32:08 <SimonRC> I saw recently a great argument against colonising other planets in case of asteroid strike...
19:32:17 <pikhq> ehird: I also want the moon!
19:32:18 <ehird> Mercury might be, but... bit hot there, I imagine.
19:32:26 <ehird> Mars would be quite easy compared to the others.
19:32:32 <SimonRC> even after an asteroid strike,. the Earth might still be more habitable than those other planets
19:32:33 <pikhq> Mars is also a good idea.
19:32:36 <ehird> You know; the ones that have obstacles like "is agiant ball of gas".
19:32:50 <GregorR-L> If we can add an atmosphere to Mars, surely we can unfuckup the atmosphere of Venus.
19:32:58 <pikhq> Mars is a bit harder to ship stuff to than the moon, but the environment is certainly easier to work with.
19:33:09 <pikhq> Namely, you already have water there.
19:33:43 <ehird> 186 K227 K268 K[4]
19:33:44 <SimonRC> ordinary air is a lifting gas on Venus, so we could supposedly make airship colonies
19:33:50 <ehird> But warm enough to make warm.
19:34:16 <pikhq> SimonRC: I LOVE THAT IDEA
19:34:38 <ehird> Mercury is really hot.
19:34:53 <ehird> well actually, the mean isn't that hot
19:35:03 <ehird> 700 K, though... :-)
19:35:17 <pikhq> It's close to the sun and doesn't afraid of anything.
19:35:22 <GregorR-L> But you can surf on the oceans of molten lead
19:35:26 <ehird> SimonRC: Venus has the same problem as mercury, except worse.
19:35:31 <SimonRC> oops, I didn't need to reboot, I just needed to slide one slider
19:35:32 <ehird> The mean surface temp i 461 C.
19:35:44 <ehird> Actually, I wonder how they define surface.
19:35:48 <SimonRC> high in the atmosphere what the proposal I heard
19:35:58 <ehird> Venus is a terrestrial planet?
19:36:04 <ehird> I seriously didn't know that.
19:36:14 <ehird> Wow. I'm, retarded.
19:36:15 <GregorR-L> Venus is Earth with fucked up greenhouse effects.
19:36:16 <pikhq> It merely has a fucking thick atmosphere.
19:36:27 <ehird> pikhq: It looks so gassy.
19:36:30 <SimonRC> and no tectonic activity, which may be related
19:36:33 <pikhq> GregorR-L: And volcanos.
19:36:34 <ehird> (Planets fart a lot. BADUM TISH)
19:36:41 <ehird> Anyway, yeah, Venus is just tooooo hot.
19:37:04 <GregorR-L> But it's not hot due to sun proximity, it's just hot due to atmosphere. That's probably more of a solvable problem. Or not :)
19:37:11 <GregorR-L> And yeah, like SimonRC said, who needs the surface?
19:37:54 <ehird> Still, Mars would be the easiest.
19:38:01 <SimonRC> I think the loud clicks are the astronauts flicking switches
19:38:08 <SimonRC> or ratehr, the resulting sparks
19:38:17 <pikhq> Venus also has SULFURIC ACID RAIN
19:38:46 <ehird> Mars is warm enough that we could build a warming dome, it has water and had life ...
19:38:48 <GregorR-L> pikhq: So do we, just less of it :P
19:39:03 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Its rain *is* sulfuric acid.
19:39:06 <ehird> And its atmosphere isn't that bad, is it?
19:39:15 <pikhq> The clouds are made of sulfuric acid droplets.
19:39:15 <GregorR-L> ehird: It's atmosphere isn't that existent.
19:39:16 <ehird> So, I definitely think Mars would be the easiest thing in our solar system to make habitable.
19:39:19 <pikhq> IT HAS A SULFURIC ACID CYCLE.
19:39:21 <ehird> GregorR-L: Exactly.
19:39:28 <ehird> That's better than Venus.
19:39:41 <GregorR-L> Idonno, is it? Shipping ridiculous amounts of oxygen to another planet?
19:39:50 <SimonRC> you just need some Boeing air-miners ;-)
19:40:05 <ehird> I mean, Mars is basically jumbo-sized Luna with water + precedent of life.
19:40:17 <pikhq> All you need to get some oxygen is a heater, a battery, and a couple of electrodes.
19:40:22 <ehird> You're not gonna find a planet more perfect than earth, so you gotta do with what you got. :)
19:40:28 <pikhq> (you may also want somewhere to store the resulting hydrogen)
19:40:43 <ehird> I wonder what the theoretical range of wireless charging is.
19:40:53 <ehird> Could we build ginormous charging satellites and use them on both Earth and Mars? :-D
19:40:58 <pikhq> ehird: Range of light.
19:41:07 <pikhq> You can use microwaves to transmit power.
19:41:17 <SimonRC> how tightly can one focus a laser?
19:41:29 <ehird> pikhq: Surely you have to choose between safety or enough power to do anything in the case of microwaves, though.
19:41:46 <ehird> So, discounting microwaves. :P
19:41:51 <GregorR-L> Eh, just use gamma radiation instead.
19:41:58 <SimonRC> well, we could adapt some launching lasers to transmit power
19:42:09 <ehird> GregorR-L: The human race loooves you.
19:42:14 <pikhq> An absurd amount of solar cells.
19:42:23 <ehird> The most important thing is...
19:42:34 <ehird> Can we get good latency to Earth's internet satellites from Mars? :-)
19:42:50 <pikhq> ehird: Half an hour latency, unless you have an ansible.
19:42:59 <ehird> Half an hour is kinda bad.
19:43:00 <GregorR-L> I've wanted to make a layer-3 proxy that just sits on packets for $AMOUNT_OF_TIME_TO_CHOSEN_PLANET
19:43:03 <SimonRC> I wonder what the maximum safe acceleration is when one is submersed in a breathable liquid
19:43:08 <GregorR-L> So we could see how effed up Intarwebs would be.
19:43:14 <ehird> "In an historic move, Microsoft Monday submitted driver source code for inclusion in the Linux kernel under a GPLv2 license."
19:43:14 <pikhq> It's about 30 lightminutes away. So.
19:43:27 <ehird> pikhq: Erm, really?
19:43:29 <GregorR-L> ehird: It's a module that helps only them.
19:43:29 <pikhq> ehird: It's for the Windows virtualisation ABI.
19:43:32 <ehird> Isn't earth 8 lightminutes away from the su—
19:43:33 <SimonRC> ordinary internet has a TLL max of 255 sec
19:43:35 <pikhq> Which Linux already had partial support for.
19:43:49 <ehird> The distance between Sun<->Earth is smaller than the distance between Earth<->Mars?
19:43:51 <ehird> I didn't know that
19:44:03 * GregorR-L explains the concept of orbit to ehird :P
19:44:13 <ehird> Shut up, GregorR-L. I just thought it was closer to us. :P
19:44:22 <SimonRC> the orbits are roughly an exponential pattern
19:44:32 <GregorR-L> This is why my proxy would be schweet.
19:44:35 <pikhq> ehird: Double the earth-to-mars distance, and add a few more lightminutes.
19:44:38 <ehird> Guys, I figured out how to get an internet connection on Mars.
19:44:40 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Kirks_Soap_Yerkes_Mars.jpg
19:44:52 <pikhq> Erm. Earth-to-sun.
19:44:54 <ehird> Build a gigantic cable that at its widest point is as wide as mars.
19:44:56 <ehird> Attach it to mars.
19:45:02 <ehird> Optionally, drive lorries along it.
19:45:06 <SimonRC> well NASA are working on an "interplanetary internet"
19:45:17 <ehird> Thank you, Mr Yerke.
19:45:18 <fungebob> we could just use it for off-site backups
19:45:30 <SimonRC> there is so much stuff on and around mars that it is worth creating a satellite specialised to high-power comms
19:45:32 <pikhq> SimonRC: Yes; current Martian probes use IP for transmission.
19:45:39 <ehird> pikhq: Yes, but... slowly...
19:45:59 <pikhq> The orbiter is a router, and the landers talk to it.
19:46:02 <ehird> Shame that the theoretical maximum is 30 minutes.
19:46:12 <ehird> Any way around it?
19:46:21 <pikhq> And there's satellites in Earth orbit that talk to the orbiter.
19:46:22 <ehird> I mean internet infrastructure
19:46:37 <pikhq> ehird: Mirror the World Wide Web on Mars.
19:46:49 <ehird> pikhq: that doesn't let you chat to people on earth :P
19:46:54 <ehird> But I guess that's just not gonna be feasible.
19:47:00 <ehird> And that's a damn shame; so much for globalization.
19:47:19 <ehird> pikhq: Sort of impossible.
19:47:28 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon
19:47:32 <SimonRC> pikhq: <cough>lorentz symmetry</cough>
19:47:40 <ehird> But tachyons are weird; it could be that Earth is sending us the packets we sent, or something.
19:47:48 <pikhq> <cough>stable wormhole</cough>
19:48:05 <ehird> Yeah, we'll just put a wormhole in orbit around mars.
19:48:19 <pikhq> Well, it's more practical than using one for transmission, at least.
19:48:32 <SimonRC> in soviet space-time, mars orbit wormhole
19:48:41 <pikhq> Since you don't need the thing to not tear *people* apart. ;)
19:48:44 <SimonRC> seriously, the theoretical "mass" is just too big
19:48:50 <pikhq> Erm. Transportation.
19:48:54 <ehird> 19:48 SimonRC: seriously, the theoretical "mass" is just too big
19:49:15 <SimonRC> I thought the mass for even a slightly usable wormhole was larger than the sun
19:49:21 <SimonRC> or was that for matter transmittion?
19:49:22 <ehird> <wechoosethemoon.org> Crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle.
19:49:42 * ehird gives up on wechoosethemoon.org; too boring atm.
19:50:20 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Worm3.jpg ← Throat, ey?
19:50:23 <ehird> Wormhole porn anyone?
19:50:47 <SimonRC> ehird: well, certain sorts of porn would be helped by it
19:51:38 <ehird> SimonRC: i'm trying to figure out what you mean.
19:53:16 <ehird> fungebob: Portal porn; Portal portals are wormholes.
19:53:25 <fungebob> i have a wormhole porn limerick
19:53:28 <ehird> "Unfortunately it is impossible for a traveller to pass through the wormhole from one Universe into the other. A traveller can pass through a horizon only in one direction, indicated by the yellow arrows. First, the traveller must wait until the two white holes have merged, and their horizons met. The traveller may then enter through one horizon. But having entered, the traveller cannot exit, either through that horizon or through the horizon on the othe
19:53:31 <ehird> r side. The fate of the traveller who ventures in is to die at the singularity which forms from the collapse of the wormhole."
19:53:44 <ehird> // somehow I don't think said traveller would actually experience this
19:54:15 <fungebob> "What I'd love is a wormhole in space
19:54:32 <SimonRC> ah, of course, your could literally fuck yourself
19:54:37 <fungebob> and the other's attached to my face."
19:54:54 <ehird> SimonRC: you couldn't do penetrative intercourse without moving the wormhole
19:55:03 <ehird> it disturbs me that I can reason this
19:55:42 <SimonRC> as a prerequisite or as a consequence?
19:57:16 <ehird> SimonRC: when you moved your penor forwards, your butt would move forwards too
19:57:47 <pikhq> ehird: This is why you'd move the wormhole.
19:57:48 <ehird> It's so obvious now!
19:57:53 <fungebob> but what if the wormhole had a half-twist?
19:57:55 <ehird> pikhq: That hurts my brain, though
19:58:19 <SimonRC> the solution to that is to use it for time travel instead, and have sex with a shifted version of yourself
19:58:41 <ehird> SimonRC: shaky. depends on how consciousness works.
19:58:53 <ehird> it's entirely possible you'd end up as one mind with two bodies and brains
19:59:04 <ehird> well, FSVO entirely possible
19:59:20 <SimonRC> yeah, in a dualist universe
20:00:07 <pikhq> CARTESIAN DUALISM FTW
20:00:53 <ehird> <Cartesian dualism> Hurf durf, I'm an exception to the normal laws of physics cuz im speshul
20:01:20 <SimonRC> why are they out of contact now?
20:01:34 <ehird> Who? The moon guys?
20:02:33 <ehird> lol@bottomright bit about the loch ness monster
20:03:22 <ehird> "Because Descartes' was such a difficult theory to defend, some of his disciples, such as Arnold Geulincx and Nicholas Malebranche, proposed a different explanation: That all mind-body interactions required the direct intervention of God."
20:04:14 <ehird> Anyway, it's not surprising that a Christian would be a dualist.
20:04:20 <SimonRC> "I'll use Cartesian Dualism to seperate my mind from my body!" (+735 mindless damage) http://dresdencodak.com/2006/12/03/dungeons-and-discourse/
20:04:38 <pikhq> ... That's replacing an arbitrary, indefensible theory that is at least interesting to think about with... Sheer stupidity.
20:04:40 <ehird> It's even harder to justify as a monist/.
20:04:42 <Pthing> describing dualism as "i am an exception to the laws of physics" is a terrible caricature
20:05:01 <ehird> pikhq: Oh, you don't really think Cartesian dualism is true.
20:05:08 <ehird> Pthing: it's called an irc oneliner
20:05:14 <ehird> they generally aren't accurate
20:05:18 <pikhq> "Maybe mind and body are seperate." to "Mind and body are seperate and GOD MAKES THEM TALK TO EACH OTHER! LAWLS!"
20:05:33 <Pthing> why's that any more stupid
20:06:28 <pikhq> They claim that god being involved makes it easier to defend.
20:06:56 <Pthing> you don't have to call it god, they just did back then
20:07:27 <pikhq> It just seems like a stupid philosophical debate.
20:07:53 <Pthing> but it's not as stupid as just accepting any position blindly
20:08:08 <pikhq> "Mind and body are seperate!" "What does this imply?" "I... don't know."
20:08:35 <ehird> (I wonder how you DO justify christianity as a monist.)
20:09:08 <SimonRC> maybe the mind is copied out when you die?
20:09:14 <pikhq> ehird: With great difficulty.
20:09:23 <ehird> SimonRC: define death
20:09:30 <ehird> information-theoretic death? by definition you can't recover it then
20:09:40 <ehird> anything before that? revival is theoretically possible
20:09:48 <Pthing> it's not really much harder than with dualism, surely
20:09:54 <ehird> pikhq: but that's not the point, amirite
20:09:56 <Pthing> neutral monism makes it trivial
20:10:27 <ehird> pikhq: Hey, that's what y'all say. :P
20:10:53 <Pthing> has been historically popular
20:14:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:23:35 <SimonRC> I think the lunar orbit diagram is fucked up
20:23:49 <SimonRC> it doesn't show the module as being behind the Moon
20:27:12 <SimonRC> 14th revolution? yeah the diagram is wrong
20:27:44 * ehird looks at the intro sequence again; determines that there is in fact a dark side of the moon
20:27:51 <ehird> matter of fact half of it's light.
20:28:14 <ehird> Hey, they mentioned MIT.
20:28:34 <SimonRC> the far side of the moon is made of darker rock than the near side mostly
20:30:01 <ehird> I like to think that the nm distance is actually nanometers.
20:31:37 <SimonRC> nautical miles: "Lets make up some things that are similar to real miles but slightly different enough that they aren't interchangeable, and give the excuse that they correspond to latitue change at the equator"
20:31:48 <ehird> SimonRC: well, they just took the mean of a sea mile
20:31:55 <ehird> so they actually improved on the sea mile
20:32:00 <ehird> as opposed to having it fuckin' vary
20:32:03 <SimonRC> right, see if there is any food in this building, 'coz I ain't leaving
20:32:21 <ehird> does nautical mile pre- or post-date regular miles anyway?
20:39:06 <ehird> No communication, I guess.
20:39:55 <SimonRC> so why does it come and go?
20:40:06 <SimonRC> also, had they not invented FM by this point?
20:40:28 <ehird> SimonRC: I guess they got tired of saying "Hey... we're going to the fucking moon." "Heyup, tru dat." "The moon. Like, us, on the moon." "You got it."
20:40:43 <ehird> Also, maybe FM's latency was too high or something (note: I'm an idiot)
20:40:59 <pikhq> ehird: FM is significantly less tolerant of interferance.
20:41:11 <ehird> pikhq: ITYM "SimonRC:"
20:41:23 <pikhq> Also, FM is harder to do.
20:42:03 <SimonRC> so why is FM clearer on my radio?
20:42:08 <pikhq> You can just about do AM with a tin can and some string. :P
20:42:38 <pikhq> SimonRC: Because its transmission mode makes interference less noticable.
20:44:33 <ehird> This is Apollo control.
20:45:32 <ehird> Around 9.5 miles from the Moon.
20:46:04 * SimonRC wonders what all those people in the control room do
20:46:59 <ehird> SimonRC: Check shit doesn't blow up, I'd gues.
20:48:52 <ehird> This needs subtitles.
20:49:00 <SimonRC> oh, yeah, the powered descent is behind the moon (again)
20:49:17 <ehird> SimonRC: i don't get what you mean by that
20:49:19 <SimonRC> I'm sure the NASA website has full transcripts somewhere
20:49:35 <ehird> also, what's the point of this if it's already available?
20:49:43 <ehird> well i guess just the audio could be newly released
20:49:53 <SimonRC> ehird: the lunar module has to go behind the moon one more time before landing
20:49:57 <GregorR-L> ehird: We're all getting to listen to it simultaneously?
20:50:06 <SimonRC> exactly 40 years after it happened
20:50:17 <ehird> To the planck time?
20:50:30 <ehird> 20:49 SimonRC: ehird: the lunar module has to go behind the moon one more time before landing
20:50:35 <ehird> i don't understand what you're trying to say
20:50:53 <SimonRC> they are going round the moon, right?
20:51:01 <SimonRC> and they have to slow down to land
20:51:14 <SimonRC> and they can't actually slow that quickly
20:51:24 <ehird> SimonRC: ok... and?
20:51:27 <ehird> what are you trying to say
20:51:53 <SimonRC> they are going to go round behind the moon once more before they actually land
20:52:08 <ehird> ok... and why do you find this pertinent enough to mention? :P
20:52:26 <ehird> It's a simple question
20:52:44 <SimonRC> the diagram in the lower right doesn't show it
20:53:04 <pikhq> Today is also my grandmother's birthday.
20:53:06 <ehird> well it is just a progress bar with a vague indicator
20:53:06 <SimonRC> oh, waitamo, it does actually
20:55:17 <GregorR-L> "An altitude of 12.9 nautical miles" :P
20:55:23 <GregorR-L> 12.9 miles into the OCEAN OF SPACE
20:55:56 <ehird> SimonRC: ah, it does.
20:56:01 <ehird> GregorR-L: Spacean.
20:59:24 <SimonRC> dude, like your rada and eyes disagree by 6%
21:00:06 <SimonRC> their visual check said 5300nm and their radar said 50000nm
21:00:38 <ehird> SimonRC: it's at ft in the Distance from Moon thing
21:00:51 <ehird> also 50000 is obviously averaged
21:00:55 <ehird> it hasn't changed for ages
21:01:25 <SimonRC> BTW, from what they said, the noise is because their HG antenna isn't pointing quite the right way
21:01:41 <ehird> All radio is noisy :P
21:02:19 <SimonRC> the aidio is 30s off from the countdown
21:02:26 <ehird> SimonRC: the KRRRRRRRT you mean?
21:02:43 <ehird> also, 30s — maybe uhh
21:02:49 <ehird> earth rotation offset? wait, leap years
21:03:38 <SimonRC> unless the even times are only to the nearest minute
21:04:13 <ehird> and that seems likely
21:04:13 <SimonRC> that would make sense given that it is counting down to exactly 102:33:00
21:06:12 <ehird> hoston we got lost
21:06:17 <ehird> time to go air freedom
21:06:24 <ehird> i am good hearing person
21:06:33 <ehird> SimonRC: any complications launching the module thingy?
21:06:48 <ehird> hmm new twitter stuff from refreshing
21:06:51 <ehird> it went black before that
21:07:12 <ehird> SimonRC: if you change view you can see a "UNITED STATES" sticker on it
21:07:16 <ehird> if lost, please return to...
21:08:10 <ehird> SimonRC: we're now <space>220249 nm from the moon
21:08:22 <ehird> i guess it just shot off into space huh
21:08:46 <ehird> wonder if they'll fix it
21:08:55 <ehird> SimonRC: wow that's noisy
21:09:27 <GregorR-L> Yup, can't understand any of this :P
21:09:58 <ehird> i'm just absorbing it as ambience
21:10:02 <ehird> since i have no hope of hearing what they say
21:10:20 <SimonRC> eveidentally there is a separate data channel
21:10:41 <SimonRC> they were referring to "data dropouts"
21:10:57 <SimonRC> or maybe "dating dropouots" ;-)
21:11:39 <ehird> SimonRC: sounds like 6125 here
21:11:44 <ehird> sixteen sixty eight
21:12:26 <ehird> Yes, 1202 FACTORIAL.
21:12:41 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
21:13:31 <SimonRC> maybe they are going to land in a few moments
21:13:44 <ehird> look at the diagram
21:13:49 <ehird> one more half revolution
21:13:53 <ehird> then they'll dig into the moon
21:14:15 <ehird> that's an awesome idea, they should have done that
21:14:20 <GregorR-L> They're actually digging quite a bit THROUGH the moon.
21:14:38 <GregorR-L> For as deep as they end up, they've dug some five times more than they needed to.
21:14:51 <ehird> If you take the previous point as being connected to it by an invisible line, they'll dig all the way through.
21:15:00 <ehird> Then do the route backwards.
21:15:02 <SimonRC> the 1201 is hapenning again
21:15:09 <ehird> SimonRC: 1201 or 1202
21:15:13 <ehird> also, I don't hear that
21:15:15 <ehird> is it the beep thing
21:15:31 <ehird> hey, they stopped. :D
21:15:36 <ehird> they're floating in the air.
21:15:44 <ehird> SimonRC: aren't they meant to orbit again?
21:16:02 <ehird> SimonRC: ok, they're using a bad diagram to represent the redirection
21:16:06 <ehird> you can see it's advancing very quickly
21:16:45 <ehird> Here we goooooooooooooooooooooooo
21:17:13 <ehird> What's that burning stuff?
21:17:24 <ehird> SimonRC: I don't think it landed that smoothly
21:17:31 <ehird> wat, there's a return to earth button
21:17:48 <GregorR-L> Well, that was a fun, brief visit.
21:17:55 <ehird> starts a too long loading thingy
21:17:57 <GregorR-L> Haven't even landed yet and already we're leaving.
21:18:00 <ehird> GregorR-L: you click it and figure out what it does
21:18:15 <pikhq> Oh Lord. Someone's trying to get Gene Ray, Doctor of Cubic, to lecture at my university.
21:18:28 <ehird> pikhq: he did MIT, why not that place
21:18:34 <SimonRC> "... The eagle has landed"
21:18:47 <pikhq> GregorR-L: This is sure to be interesting.
21:18:49 <ehird> anyone returned to earth?
21:18:54 <ehird> SimonRC: i don't hear cheering yet :(
21:19:11 <ehird> Someone return to earth, dammit.
21:19:14 <pikhq> Might be slightly tricky to get the powers that be to approve the venture, but only slightly.
21:19:23 <ehird> BUT THE BUTTON MIGHT DISAPPEAR
21:19:33 <ehird> do it in another tab or something :P
21:20:01 <ehird> pikhq: GregorR-L: "Distance from moon 220259 nm"
21:20:07 <ehird> It's one of them optical illusions.
21:20:51 <SimonRC> "distance from moon 120ft"
21:21:03 <pikhq> "I welcome the opportunity to lecture at the University of Missouri, please procede with the venture. Be warned, be careful, for you could pay a price for your yearning." -- Gene Ray, Doctor of Cubic
21:21:25 <ehird> Meanwhile, http://www.theonion.com/content/index?utm_source=nav
21:21:28 <GregorR-L> That is such a Time Cube thing to say.
21:21:42 <ehird> pikhq: Doctor of Cubicism, btw.
21:22:40 <pikhq> ehird: Fine, fine.
21:22:48 <pikhq> Gene Ray, Cubic and Wisest Human
21:23:34 <ehird> Anyone returned to earth?
21:23:40 <ehird> Return to fucking earth, you bitch.
21:24:17 <ehird> Made with all ingredients, this gel is perfect for any occasion. Child and adult enjoy it equally, sometimes, as do even pets! If you need gel, buy this gel.
21:24:18 <ehird> The device has been completed and is now available for sale. Code 41-Virtue-00B
21:24:20 <ehird> http://www.yuwanmei.com/products
21:24:30 <ehird> I want the Device.
21:25:39 <ehird> SimonRC: we're seconds out of sync :P
21:25:43 <GregorR-L> Probably whether they're going to, y'know, STAY or NOT STAY :P
21:26:18 <ehird> I assume not, as we haven't had Armstrong's speech.
21:26:18 <SimonRC> they had a load of stuff to do
21:26:30 <SimonRC> make sure thaty they weren't leaking for example
21:26:45 <ehird> GregorR-L: What goof?
21:26:48 <SimonRC> if they were leaking fule, they would be unable to get off unless they went right away
21:26:53 <ehird> You mean the [a] man thing.
21:27:12 <ehird> It's not really a goof, IMO... It's way better this way.
21:27:18 <ehird> "a man" would have been much less memorable.
21:27:18 <SimonRC> I thought hea said "One small step f'ra man..."
21:27:39 <ehird> GregorR-L: It flows much better as "One small step for man..."
21:27:46 <ehird> SimonRC: He maintained that too, but analysis of the recordings says not.
21:27:49 <GregorR-L> It may flow better, but it's meaningless.
21:28:03 <ehird> GregorR-L: It's only meaningless if you can't pattern-match.
21:28:09 <GregorR-L> One small step for mankind, one giant leap for mankind.
21:28:09 <ehird> We're gigantic inferring, pattern-matching machines.
21:28:15 <SimonRC> ah, the reason for not using auto-targeting
21:28:16 <ehird> The meaning is obvious, clear and precise.
21:28:28 <GregorR-L> It's only obvious because it's obvious the goof he made :P
21:28:28 <ehird> SimonRC: I didn't hear; what was it?
21:28:39 <ehird> GregorR-L: Uhh, a ton of people didn't think it was a goof.
21:28:44 <SimonRC> there were loads of rocks where it was putting them
21:29:06 <ehird> SimonRC: It said that in the top-left mission status thing.
21:29:13 <ehird> GregorR-L: I'va got something to make yer blood boil.
21:29:21 <ehird> "Saying it was a waste of $11, Los Angeles resident Dan Bevver expressed disappointment Sunday that The Taking Of Pelham 1 2 3 was not nearly as bad as he had been anticipating. After going in with expectations of hammy acting and clichéd dialogue, Bevver was irritated to find an adequate retelling of the 1974 film, with performances that ranged from acceptable to decent."
21:30:02 <GregorR-L> "And don't forget one in the command module" lol
21:30:02 <ehird> GregorR-L: It's an Onion article. :P
21:30:02 <SimonRC> ehird: there was a similar review of the new ST movie
21:30:09 <ehird> GregorR-L: I was muted; what did they say beforehand?
21:30:32 <SimonRC> ehird: lots of smiling faces in the command room
21:30:43 <ehird> 21:30 GregorR-L: Saddest thing ever said? :P
21:31:16 <GregorR-L> Well, he said it himself. The guy in the command module. They said something about two guys being up there, and he said "And don't forget one in the command module" :P
21:31:50 <SimonRC> that was the furthest one person had ever been from any other human alone
21:32:49 <ehird> SimonRC: wasn't there that report of those two guys who heard a russian drift off into space
21:33:05 <SimonRC> a russian drifting into space?
21:33:08 <ehird> SimonRC: also, what do you mean by that?
21:33:23 <ehird> read it about a web article, some kids hijacked the communications of missions and stuff
21:33:32 <ehird> i don't recall the url
21:33:40 <ehird> 21:31 SimonRC: that was the furthest one person had ever been from any other human alone
21:33:42 <ehird> what does that mean
21:33:45 <ehird> i can't parse that sentence properly
21:34:13 <SimonRC> well, untill the seperation, they were 25000mi from most humanity, but only a few meters from each other
21:34:45 <ehird> SimonRC: wait, i'm not sure i understand
21:34:48 <ehird> who is apart from who
21:36:42 <SimonRC> Collins will soon be 1000s of miles from Armstrong and Aldrin
21:37:33 <ehird> i never really thought much about the return mission... or anyone but armstrong or aldrin... of course someone had to say behind
21:37:48 <ehird> i haven't really ever thought much about apollo 11 :p
21:38:56 <SimonRC> ooh, they are doing a computer memory dump
21:39:04 <ehird> SimonRC: what... all of it?
21:39:07 <ehird> over the audio channel?
21:39:20 <ehird> it must have had a kilobyte or two of memory
21:39:39 <ehird> Launch dateJuly 16, 1969
21:40:02 <SimonRC> I don't know the answers to either of your questions
21:40:14 <ehird> Number of lunar orbits30
21:40:21 <ehird> SimonRC: methinks that diagram was... not very accurate :D
21:40:42 <pikhq> ehird: Yes, with second accuracy.
21:41:04 <ehird> wanted to make a show huh :)
21:41:50 <SimonRC> how long until they get out?
21:42:08 <ehird> [[Shortly after landing, before preparations began for the EVA, Aldrin broadcast that:
21:42:08 <ehird> This is the LM pilot. I'd like to take this opportunity to ask every person listening in, whoever and wherever they may be, to pause for a moment and contemplate the events of the past few hours and to give thanks in his or her own way.[15]
21:42:12 <ehird> He then took Communion privately.]]
21:42:36 <ehird> "I've landed on the goddamn moon thanks to decades, nay centuries, of scientific progress and human accomplishment. I know! I'll go eat a Jewish zombie's flesh."
21:44:05 <ehird> i'm not sure why you'd risk drinking any amount of alcohol for such an important thing tbh, but there you go
21:44:19 <ehird> haha, i wish i could hear what they're saying
21:44:32 <SimonRC> they're talking about correcting the mission timer
21:44:52 <SimonRC> it seems the first digit is a 9 instead of a 1
21:45:11 <ehird> SimonRC: At 02:56 UTC on Monday July 21 (10:56pm EDT, Sunday July 20), 1969, Armstrong began his descent to the Moon's surface
21:45:17 <ehird> so midnight in the UK
21:45:22 <ehird> until they descend
21:45:25 <ehird> wow that's a long time to wait.
21:45:30 <ehird> i'm preëmptively bored
21:49:18 <ehird> After the astronauts planted a U.S. flag on the lunar surface, they spoke with President Richard Nixon through a telephone-radio transmission which Nixon called "the most historic phone call ever made from the White House."
21:50:36 <ehird> "While moving in the cabin Aldrin accidentally broke the circuit breaker that armed the main engine for lift off from the moon. There was initial concern this would prevent firing the engine, which would strand them on the moon. Fortunately a felt-tip pen was sufficient to activate the switch."
21:50:40 <SimonRC> "The schedule for the mission called for the astronauts to follow the landing with a five-hour sleep period" -- ok, you just landed on the moon. now take a nap
21:50:49 <ehird> "Whoopsy! Oh, never mind. I just poked it."
21:51:06 <ehird> SimonRC: would be a gripping tv thingy that
21:51:16 <ehird> "AND NOW, A PICTURE OF THE MODULE FOR FIVE HOURS"
21:51:39 <ehird> i wonder how long they actually walked on the moon
21:51:59 <ehird> yeah, I'm just wondering actually how long
21:52:04 <SimonRC> 11 was pretty much a flags and footprints affair, IIRC
21:52:33 <SimonRC> fuck, well I can't listen to the famous line in pseudo-real time
21:52:44 <ehird> SimonRC: er, lag much?
21:52:46 <ehird> I said that ages ago
21:52:53 <SimonRC> I ought to at least go home before that point
21:53:01 <SimonRC> no, the "one small step" line
21:53:19 <ehird> [[Subsequent Apollo missions usually planted the American flags at least 100 feet (30 m) from the LM to avoid being blown over by the ascent engine exhaust.]]
21:53:23 <ehird> I thought we only walked on the moon once
21:53:29 <ehird> I really don't know much about our space missions
21:53:43 <ehird> SimonRC: really, my mind's making shit up
21:53:49 <ehird> to cover for black holes in my knowledge
21:54:22 <ehird> Whatever it is in the UK; BST?
21:55:31 <SimonRC> ah, someone describing the Earth
21:57:45 <ehird> "There is no official flag for Mars because there is no government or other authority to adopt such a flag."
21:57:47 <ehird> — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mars
21:58:34 <ehird> GregorR-L: didn't you say Mars doesn't have an atmosphere or something?
21:59:06 <ehird> Mars has the potential capacity to host human and other organic life because it has an atmosphere
21:59:07 <ehird> Mars has an atmosphere. While very thin (about 0.7% of Earth's atmosphere), it provides some protection from solar and cosmic radiation and has been used successfully for aerobraking of spacecraft.
22:02:07 * SimonRC contemplates sleeping at work just to get to hear the words
22:02:10 <ehird> anyone wanna return to earth?
22:02:25 <ehird> so worth it! it's totally not, but anything's worth it if it's silly.
22:02:29 <ehird> anything's worth anything if it's sill.
22:02:36 <ehird> eh, I'll return to earth
22:03:06 <ehird> SimonRC: ahahaha it's back in space
22:03:20 <ehird> okay this is boring i'm going back to the moon
22:03:24 <ehird> SimonRC: so I see?
22:03:30 <ehird> did you click it as well or did i make it happen for everyone :-D
22:03:34 <SimonRC> I pressed the button a few minutes after you
22:03:56 * ehird refreshes to get back
22:04:01 -!- augur has joined.
22:04:09 <SimonRC> nope, you broke the entire internet
22:04:33 <ehird> "Only the cloud tops of Venus are closer in terms of habitability to Earth than Mars is."
22:04:41 <SimonRC> ehird: I read that /topic someewhere recently, but I can't remember where
22:04:57 <ehird> SimonRC: Lewis Carroll, What The Tortoise Said To Achilles
22:05:28 <pikhq> ehird: Of course, air is bouyant in the Venus atmosphere
22:05:43 <ehird> pikhq: so you've said
22:05:51 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:06:04 <ehird> pikhq: does that mean if you were in venus's air, you'd float to the top naturally? :D
22:06:29 <ehird> "Mars has no global geomagnetic field comparable to Earth's."
22:07:04 <ehird> SimonRC: all cooled down what
22:07:08 <ehird> oh the space guyzzzzzz
22:07:09 <pikhq> You'd need lead bricks in your shoes to go to the surface.
22:07:53 <ehird> The one-way communication delay due to the speed of light ranges from about 3 minutes at closest approach (approximated by perihelion of Mars minus aphelion of Earth) to 22 minutes at the largest possible superior conjunction (approximated by aphelion of Mars plus aphelion of Earth). Telephone conversations or Internet Relay Chat between Earth and Mars would be highly impractical due to the long time lags involved. NASA has found that direct communicatio
22:07:56 <ehird> n can be blocked for about two weeks every synodic period, around the time of superior conjunction when the Sun is directly between Mars and Earth.[12] A satellite at either of the Earth-Sun L4/L5 Lagrange points could serve as a relay during this period to solve the problem, or even a constellation of communications satellites, which would be a minor expense in the context of a full-blown Mars colonization program.
22:08:03 <ehird> so less than 30 minutes at all times, apart from when it's infinity
22:08:16 <ehird> a true shame about the speed of light
22:08:20 <ehird> it's not that fast after alll
22:08:37 <ehird> "As with early colonies in the New World, economics would be a crucial aspect to a colony's success. The reduced gravity well of Mars and its position in the solar system may facilitate Mars-Earth trade and provide the rationalization for continued settlement of the planet."
22:08:41 <ehird> rationalization? seriously?
22:08:50 <pikhq> I am strongly of the opinion that I want the physics of the Ender-verse.
22:08:59 <pikhq> Ansible? FUCK YEAH.
22:09:15 <SimonRC> Lorentz symmetry, FUCK NO!
22:09:18 <ehird> pikhq: i'm kinda in favour of the whole "doesn't totally fuck up physics" thing
22:09:40 <ehird> google, unsurprisingly, can has a logo
22:10:18 <ehird> "A philote is the basic building block of matter, the true indivisible particle that is not made up of smaller ones. Philotes take up no space and are essential to the theory of philotic energy. Each atom has a philote of its own, each molecule likewise, and ultimately each human has an aiùa, an intelligent philote. It is suggested that perhaps a single philote, which could be referred to as God, contains the essence of humanity, and/or all sentient spe
22:10:21 <ehird> cies in the known universe."
22:10:24 <ehird> funny how that fits in with Card's theology.
22:10:35 <ehird> i guess gay people don't have ai`uas, though
22:12:01 <ehird> heh card's also a republican who claims to be a democrat
22:12:05 <ehird> [[ Card is a vocal supporter of many aspects of George W. Bush's leadership style, the war on terror, aspects of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and aspects of the USA PATRIOT Act.
22:12:06 <ehird> On November 6, 2006, just one day before a major election in the United States, Card wrote an opinion piece for RealClearPolitics, in which he encourages voters to support the Republicans:
22:12:09 <ehird> “There is only one issue in this election that will matter five or ten years from now, and that's the War on Terror... I say this as a Democrat, for whom the Republican domination of government threatens many values that I hold to be important to America's role as a light among nations. But there are no values that matter to me that will not be gravely endangered if we lose this war.]]
22:12:20 <ehird> "I'm a democrat, guys. Apart from being a republican in every way possible."
22:12:48 <pikhq> ehird: Actually, philotes are a bit inconsistent with his theology.
22:12:53 <ehird> Ooh, he's also anti-we-did-global-warming, anti-we-should-do-something-about-global-warming and anti-evolution.
22:13:12 <GregorR> ehird: He's a republican in democrat's clothing in republican's clothing? :P
22:13:18 <ehird> GregorR: Obviously!
22:13:19 <pikhq> Mormons think that God was just this guy, you know, who became diety of this planet, and that their afterlife consists of being God of a different planet.
22:13:34 <ehird> pikhq: I thought they were more orthodox Christian than that.
22:13:53 <pikhq> They are pretty strongly unorthodox.
22:14:02 <ehird> Believers will live in the Celestial Kingdom, a place wonderful beyond all description, and receive the direct sight and love of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who will also live there. Unlike the nonbelievers, you will be united with your family; if you had a Mormon marriage you'll get the fanciest part of the Celestial Kingdom and live like God Himself. Children who die before the age of 8 come here automatically.
22:14:16 <ehird> Virtuous nonbelievers will enjoy the Terrestrial Kingdom, which is totally amazing. Jesus and the Holy Spirit will come to visit sometimes. If you aren't that virtuous you will go to Hell for a while, but eventually Jesus will rescue you and take you to the Telestial Kingdom, which isn't as great but still so wonderful you would off yourself if you knew how good it was. Jesus won't be there but the Spirit will.
22:14:19 <ehird> Although Hitler was baptized by the Mormons and thus released from "spirit prison," he will be judged by God at the Apocalypse and most likely sent to outer darkness with Cain and Satan.
22:14:22 <ehird> pikhq: doesn't sound like being god of a planet to me.
22:14:27 <SimonRC> (getting humans to do space colonisation now is looks to me rather like getting prehistoric man to build the Trans-Siberian railway with stone axes and shoulder-blade shovels while he is migrating across the asian continent for the first time.)
22:14:33 <pikhq> ehird: Where you getting this?
22:14:40 <ehird> pikhq: http://shii.org/afterlife
22:14:53 <ehird> Which, being accurate for all the other belief systems, I am not particularly inclined to doubt.
22:15:00 <ehird> (I would doubt it if he was a Mormon himself, but he isn't.)
22:15:27 <pikhq> That's pretty close, but "live like God Himself" include being a deity of a world. ;)
22:15:51 <pikhq> (I guess I generalised a little bit for sake of demonstration)
22:16:06 <ehird> I take issue with that page, incidentally, because it ranks consciousness-snuffed-outness as a positive outcome, which fucks up the ordering in my opinion.
22:16:19 <ehird> The Mormon treatment of everyone is the nicest.
22:16:40 <ehird> (It's understandable, though, because the author is a Buddhist so he's kinda working towards that whole permanent death thing.)
22:16:56 <ehird> (Whereas we the irreligious think he could do that perfectly fine by just sitting around for a while. :-) )
22:17:23 <pikhq> Bad description of Greek afterlife; Hades is not entirely hell.
22:17:35 <ehird> "The rest of us poor bastards go to Hades and just sit there gloomily."
22:17:38 <ehird> He doesn't imply it's hell.
22:17:42 <ehird> "Hitler also goes to Hades, but he gets punished. Forever."
22:18:33 <ehird> "Unbelievers will fall off a bridge and into Hell, where they will be tortured forever. Apparently there will be some sort of judgement involved, but it doesn't matter because in the end the believers will go to Heaven and the unbelievers to Hell."
22:18:35 <ehird> Nutrimatic religion.
22:25:51 <pikhq> Man, reading about the Apollo flight computer...
22:26:04 <pikhq> It was the first computer to use integrated circuits.
22:26:07 <ehird> how many kb did it have
22:26:38 <pikhq> 2 kibiwords; 16-bit word, so 2 kibibytes.
22:27:04 <ehird> I can't imagine that taking us to the moon.
22:27:09 <pikhq> And the integrated circuits? It used 4,100 ICs.
22:27:09 <pikhq> Each one contained a single gate.
22:27:18 <pikhq> A single nor gate.
22:27:26 <ehird> Surely impossible...
22:29:38 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:30:11 <AnMaster> google holiday logo on results page, but not main page
22:30:12 <pikhq> Also, magnetic core memory.
22:30:22 <AnMaster> and clicking on it just takes you to main page
22:31:23 <pikhq> Oh, wait. It was not a Von Neuman architecture.
22:31:46 <pikhq> 2 kibiwords of program storage in rope memory, and 24 kibiwords of RAM.
22:32:26 <AnMaster> oh it's http://img0.gmodules.com/logos/moonlanding09_res.gif
22:32:51 <pikhq> And there's an assembly instruction on it, "EDRUPT" that is used once in the guidance software that nobody knows what it does.
22:33:14 <pikhq> All that's known is that it was implemented as asked for by Ed, and that it's an interrupt of some sort.
22:36:26 <ehird> has anyone tried patching it out
22:37:28 -!- augur has joined.
22:38:45 <pikhq> The Shuttle's computers are much easier to deal with...
22:38:51 <pikhq> Just a very old IBM mainframe.
22:40:34 <ehird> [[Years later, it was publically revealed that Nixon had prepared a speech to be given if the mission resulted in death. The lunar module had not been tested to assess if it could launch from the moon surface.]]
22:41:23 <AnMaster> pikhq, Is "EDRUPT" in the space shuttle? Did I really understand that right?
22:42:13 <ehird> No, in the Apollo 11 systems.
22:42:19 <ehird> And Ed may well be dead, or has forgotten.
22:42:20 <ehird> It's been 40 years.
22:46:12 <augur> is there an esolang that uses orbital mechanics? :o
22:46:27 <augur> it should be something like
22:46:54 <ehird> pikhq: are you listening to the broadcast?
22:46:58 <ehird> it sounded like the control center there for a second
22:47:03 <augur> a control satellite orbits command objects
22:47:31 <augur> and has to move from one orbit to another in order to engage in control flow
22:47:56 <ehird> http://wechoosethemoon.org/; bring a Flash player.
22:48:03 <ehird> The moon landing, in real time, time-delayed 40 years.
22:48:14 <ehird> All the communications.
22:48:19 <augur> and the only way it can do this is by the command objects gravity attracting the control satellite via normal orbital dynamics
22:48:30 <ehird> AnMaster: why "hah"?
22:49:30 <AnMaster> augur, wouldn't that be uncomputable? Somewhat like "gravity" is?
22:49:54 <augur> no, noone said it would require perfect solutions to the coupled differential equations
22:50:10 <pikhq> ehird: No, I'm working and chatting on IRC from time to time.
22:50:18 <augur> rather, you'd just use numerical methods to simulate n-body orbital mechanics and to hell with the error
22:50:22 <ehird> Working is for ... triangles.
22:50:24 <ehird> You're a triangle, pikhq.
22:51:27 <augur> alternatively, you could have a "control" thing that fires little objects out at whatever interval you want, and they have to impact the appropriate command object
22:52:32 <augur> while all of these things engage in free orbiting (the control drone could orbit far enough out to take a circular orbit, tho, so we can treat that as being fixed in space)
22:54:38 <augur> the task of the programmer would be to discover some combination of command drone firing, coupled with initial orbital conditions, to make it so that the right orbiter is impacted at the right time
22:55:09 <augur> this is probably impossible to achieve for all but the most trivial of problems.
22:57:48 <AnMaster> augur, sounds like it wouldn't be TC anyway... unless you have control flow somehow
22:57:53 <pikhq> That is pretty clearly a domain-specific language.
22:58:18 <pikhq> And a pretty crazy one at that.
23:06:54 <augur> well it was just an initial idea
23:07:18 <augur> since itd be fucking impossible to program
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23:39:44 <HackEgo> test \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ test English word \ Definitions: \ \ communication covering experiment mental measurement run trial \ \ a set of questions or exercises evaluating skill or knowledge a hard outer covering as of some amoebas and sea urchins trying something to find out about it any standardized procedure
23:39:45 <HackEgo> 2 \ \ 2 \ \ Input: \ \ 2 \ \ 2 \ \ Result: \ \ 4 \ Number name: \ \ four \ Visual representation: \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on July 20, 2009 from Champaign, IL. © Wolfram Alpha LLC—A Wolfram Research Company \ \ 1 \ \
23:39:57 <HackEgo> lengths of months \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ length unit \ \ month \ \ Result: \ \ 1 length unit mo length unit month \ Unit conversions: 6 \ \ 6.408 10 m s meter seconds \ \ Interpretation: \ \ no standard named quantities \ Basic unit dimensions: \ \ length time \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com)
23:40:24 <HackEgo> days of months \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ day \ \ month \ \ Unit conversions: \ \ 1 day : 30.42 days \ Comparisons: \ \ 1 day is 0.03288 times smaller than 1 mo \ Ratios: \ \ 1 : 30.42 \ Total: \ \ 31.42 days \ Fractions of total: \ \ 0.03183 \ \ 0.9682 \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on July
23:40:53 <AnMaster> I want it to calculate how long an average month is :/
23:41:13 <AnMaster> natural language input can go fuck itself
23:42:45 <FireFly> 365.24/12 should be pretty close?
23:44:05 <FireFly> Hm, that isn't too hard to remember.. Got to update my reference number for average days/year...
23:44:51 -!- GregorR has joined.
23:44:52 <FireFly> "The average month in the Gregorian calendar has a length of 30.4167" - Says wiki
23:45:19 <FireFly> Oh, that was only during non-leap years
23:45:27 <FireFly> Nope, days per average month
23:48:16 * nescience catches up to where you were already at!
23:48:25 <oerjan> literal minded people are literal minded
23:49:50 <nescience> it's not so much 'literal minded' as it is 'annoyed at people shortening the name of a website to a noun that already has a different meaning'
23:50:20 <ehird> FireFly: plz never use Wiki as a noun unless you mean WikiWikiWeb
23:52:02 <pikhq> Never use Wiki as a *proper* noun unless you mean the WikiWikiWeb. Kthx.
23:52:21 <ehird> pikhq: [Full-disclosure] anti-sec: OpenSSH <= 5.2 zero day exploit code -48 hours until it is publicly released!
23:52:34 <oerjan> The wiki is a small wingless spanish bird, known for hanging upside down in trees by its powerful claws.
23:52:39 <ehird> And, paradoxically, full disclosure.
23:53:19 <pikhq> OPENSSH ZERO DAY FUCK fUCK FUCK
23:53:57 <pikhq> I'm glad that my place of employment has iptables rules to limit who can SSH in.
23:54:08 <ehird> pikhq: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/20/anti_sec_spoof/
23:54:16 <ehird> ...at least if you trust El Reg
23:54:22 <ehird> Trusting El Reg is rarely the correct decision.
23:54:53 <ehird> "AntiSec would never fully disclose. They would only sell the exploit to those whom they consider the last moral agents in a completely destitute society: spammers, internet griefers, and of course Romanian credit card thieves."
23:55:10 <pikhq> Quoted for truth, I assume.
23:55:20 <oerjan> what's an internet griefer?
23:55:33 <pikhq> oerjan: Script kiddies with more knowledge, I assume.